Author Topic: Bittersweet Job news  (Read 33418 times)

Daisy

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #100 on: November 10, 2015, 11:36:07 AM »
At this point, I wouldn't bank on any bonus. If you get it, great. But you need to look for other opportunities and put this current position behind you. Congrats on the 2 interviews! That's a good sign. You'll be happily employed at a new place soon.

jeromedawg

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #101 on: November 10, 2015, 01:21:21 PM »
At this point, I wouldn't bank on any bonus. If you get it, great. But you need to look for other opportunities and put this current position behind you. Congrats on the 2 interviews! That's a good sign. You'll be happily employed at a new place soon.

Yea, I'm not counting on it at all. Wondering if I'll be able to parlay the bonus into a signing bonus or something with any new opp that comes along. Hmm....

jeromedawg

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #102 on: November 12, 2015, 07:44:21 PM »
Well, some good and bad news. The good, I heard back from the large financial institution and they basically made a verbal offer. I am trying to negotiate the start date (hopefully in January) as well as a potential signing bonus (delayed or immediate but I doubt it'll happen). They offered at the salary I was targeting, more or less, and this would be a 100% telecommute position as well. I also had a number of questions I still wanted to hash out with the hiring manager. Part of my response was to buy more time (to hear back from the other company) because they seemed to be pressing for an answer then and there. They should be getting back to me tomorrow hopefully.

I immediately emailed the cloud gaming company within the hour after getting the verbal offer call and just just heard back from about half an hour ago. The bad: they are not interested in making an offer with me... This would have probably been a better career-growth and experience opportunity but likely at less pay too, so it would have been a tough decision either way.

But I guess the decision has gotten narrowed down: I can go with the offer I got OR I can risk passing it up in favor of trying to stick it out for the bonus at my current place and/or extending my job search for my "dream job" lol

The logistics of 100% telecommute are pretty foreign to me, so I still need to hash out those details either way. But at this point, I'm conflicted just because of the nature of the work - is it what I *really* want to be doing long-term? But the overarching question too I suppose is how much longer do I want to keep working in general and what is my FIRE goal. I haven't quite figured that out yet...
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 07:51:53 PM by jplee3 »

Axecleaver

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #103 on: November 13, 2015, 08:02:49 AM »
You should do it, but 100% telecommute can be very isolating. It's a good idea to do at least a week orientation with the people you'll work with. See if there are any regular get-togethers like a quarterly meeting. If you have stuff like that mixed in, telecommute is great. No wasted time and money commuting, and it's a lot easier to fit your life into the job.

Make sure you have defined working hours and you try hard to keep them, it's easy to overwork. Also have an office space you can close off from roommates or family. Don't try to set up a laptop and phone in front of the TV or on the kitchen table, this is asking for distractions. Many expenses are reimburseable - phone, internet, office supplies. The company saves a ton of money not having a permanent space for you.

norabird

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #104 on: November 13, 2015, 08:51:38 AM »
I would take the offer, I think? If they let you start in Jan.

jeromedawg

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #105 on: November 13, 2015, 09:43:02 AM »
Thanks guys, I'm close to taking the offer (100% telecommute) at this point, especially since it's the only offer. They couldn't negotiate my start date to be in January so they said any time before the end of the year. So I may tell them Dec 31st LOL! Anyway, I still wanted to talk to the hiring manager directly about some questions I had about the job and opportunity itself before committing. Other than that, things are really lining up. They were also able to get me a small signing bonus (it's a fraction of the "bonus" I've been promised at my current place but it's at least something and should at least cover a good chunk of the tuition assistance reimbursement I'll end up owing when I leave since it was taken less than a year ago).

Anyway, I'm excited to move on. I think the telecommute aspect will be challenging primarily because it's new to me and I don't know what to expect. It sounds like a certain level of discipline is in order so we'll see. Good thing though is that the expectation of work hours is pretty standard (8-5 or whatever schedule I want to set, as long as I'm available between those hours). With no real "on-call" schedule or anything like that (though there is an expectation of being reasonably available on standby in case of 'emergency'...).

The only thing left considering is how I'll make my exit at the current place. I'm wanting to get in on the parental leave (11/30-12/18) so I wouldn't want to give notice right after accepting. I think I might give notice during the last week of my parental leave (so around 12/18) and tell them that my last day is December 30th or something (the day before what I'm hoping my "official" start date will be with the new place on 12/31). I figure, not much is going to be going on around that time either way since it's literally the year end. Technically, I'm back at work on 12/21 but will be working remotely too as I'll be out of town. What do you guys think?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 09:46:45 AM by jplee3 »

catccc

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #106 on: November 13, 2015, 11:00:54 AM »
Congrats! 

I wouldn't bring up the tuition assistance pay back, maybe they won't ask for it?!  My old company had a written policy like that.  But they never asked for it back.  (we work in accounting, so we knew that it wasn't enforced...) Then one time they did.  My coworker that was quitting and 1/2 way through her two weeks notice.  And she was like "hell no, we don't enforce that on anyone, we aren't starting with me."   And our asshole boss said, "sorry lady, yes we are, it will be withheld from your last paycheck "  We were paid currently, not in arrears, which is unusual, but she was like "I'm not working for free."  And she left and never came back.   Which I thought was awesome.  (IDK, maybe some will disagree with me since that was the written policy.  Maybe you had to know first hand what an ass our boss was to appreciate this.)  When I left I only gave a week notice to ensure my annual bonus payout.  I don't regret it at all. 

Anyway, my point is that companies have little in the way of loyalty to their employees, or courtesy when it comes to laying people off.  So I don't think employees need to have it, either.  Give whatever notice is best for you, I don't think you need to be courteous to them.  Good luck!


norabird

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #107 on: November 13, 2015, 11:04:03 AM »
Definitely go ahead with taking leave and giving notice mid/late Dec if you can.

jeromedawg

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #108 on: November 13, 2015, 12:09:51 PM »
Thanks guys, they agreed to a start date of 12/31 haha - I think it's for getting me onboard for the headcount before end of year more than anything.

I've pretty much accepted the offer so now just waiting for paperwork.

The other concern I have is that I filed for FMLA with my current company for the last few weeks of January. I don't want to be in a situation where my current company knows that I've taken another offer before I tell them - I don't think FMLA would have any bearing on this as it sounds like the FMLA status is pending my active employment status at the current place (e.g. so if I give notice on 12/21 for instance, my current company would notify MetLife for FMLA and effectively cancel it)

Actually, I wonder if I could say my last day is 1/8/16 at my current place because that week is actually my very last week of the parental leave benefit. So 11/30-12/18 and then 1/4-1/8 - this would be instead of giving notice that my last day is 12/30 or whatever. This could give way to burning bridges but I can only really see that happening if I still had a big workload that had to be transitioned and it wasn't done yet... seems like trying to extend out the parental leave benefit carries other risks anyway, so I guess the cleanest way to really do this is to give notice while in the office and while actively only employed at the current place. And giving an end date *before* I start with the new employer.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 12:22:25 PM by jplee3 »

nobody123

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #109 on: November 13, 2015, 01:57:19 PM »
The other concern I have is that I filed for FMLA with my current company for the last few weeks of January. I don't want to be in a situation where my current company knows that I've taken another offer before I tell them - I don't think FMLA would have any bearing on this as it sounds like the FMLA status is pending my active employment status at the current place (e.g. so if I give notice on 12/21 for instance, my current company would notify MetLife for FMLA and effectively cancel it)

Actually, I wonder if I could say my last day is 1/8/16 at my current place because that week is actually my very last week of the parental leave benefit. So 11/30-12/18 and then 1/4-1/8 - this would be instead of giving notice that my last day is 12/30 or whatever. This could give way to burning bridges but I can only really see that happening if I still had a big workload that had to be transitioned and it wasn't done yet... seems like trying to extend out the parental leave benefit carries other risks anyway, so I guess the cleanest way to really do this is to give notice while in the office and while actively only employed at the current place. And giving an end date *before* I start with the new employer.

This is confusing.  So, you are going to start at your new company on 12/31 then expect to take FMLA in January?  Or are you saying that if you call to cancel it you're worried your current company will think something is up?

Just take your parental leave, and give your two weeks on 12/16 saying your last day is 12/30.  Be prepared for them to say you abused the leave policy and not pay you for the last two weeks (essentially firing you for cause).  Or, at the very least, say you're no longer eligible for leave because you have a resignation on file, so come into the office for turnover.  If your turnover activities are truly important, they'll choose the latter.  If not, they may simply choose the first.

Congratulations on the job offer.  Whatever you do, don't breathe a word of it until you have a countersigned offer in hand and are exactly two weeks from the start date.  And +1 for creating a home office with a door.  Make sure your wife knows that when the door is closed you are working and cannot be disturbed unless the house is on fire.  No looking after the baby while she takes a shower, or runs to the store, etc.  You need to focus on your job.

jeromedawg

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #110 on: November 13, 2015, 02:49:59 PM »
The other concern I have is that I filed for FMLA with my current company for the last few weeks of January. I don't want to be in a situation where my current company knows that I've taken another offer before I tell them - I don't think FMLA would have any bearing on this as it sounds like the FMLA status is pending my active employment status at the current place (e.g. so if I give notice on 12/21 for instance, my current company would notify MetLife for FMLA and effectively cancel it)

Actually, I wonder if I could say my last day is 1/8/16 at my current place because that week is actually my very last week of the parental leave benefit. So 11/30-12/18 and then 1/4-1/8 - this would be instead of giving notice that my last day is 12/30 or whatever. This could give way to burning bridges but I can only really see that happening if I still had a big workload that had to be transitioned and it wasn't done yet... seems like trying to extend out the parental leave benefit carries other risks anyway, so I guess the cleanest way to really do this is to give notice while in the office and while actively only employed at the current place. And giving an end date *before* I start with the new employer.

This is confusing.  So, you are going to start at your new company on 12/31 then expect to take FMLA in January?  Or are you saying that if you call to cancel it you're worried your current company will think something is up?

Just take your parental leave, and give your two weeks on 12/16 saying your last day is 12/30.  Be prepared for them to say you abused the leave policy and not pay you for the last two weeks (essentially firing you for cause).  Or, at the very least, say you're no longer eligible for leave because you have a resignation on file, so come into the office for turnover.  If your turnover activities are truly important, they'll choose the latter.  If not, they may simply choose the first.

Congratulations on the job offer.  Whatever you do, don't breathe a word of it until you have a countersigned offer in hand and are exactly two weeks from the start date.  And +1 for creating a home office with a door.  Make sure your wife knows that when the door is closed you are working and cannot be disturbed unless the house is on fire.  No looking after the baby while she takes a shower, or runs to the store, etc.  You need to focus on your job.

Sorry for the confusion. My current company offers 4 weeks of parental paid leave. I'm only taking 3 weeks of it initially in December but also filed to take the last week in the first week of January. I guess I just wanted to see if I could start the new job while still receiving benefits of the last week of parental leave (and essentially not tell my current employer anything or just tell them like on 1/8 for instance that I'm not coming back) but it doesn't sound like that would really work and would probably burn bridges.

For the 2 week rule, do I really need to give them *exactly* 2 weeks notice? Couldn't I just give my notice on 12/18 (which is the last day of my 3rd week of parental leave) and say that 12/30 will be my last day?

Thanks, yea I don't plan to say anything to my manager until I have everything in writing and up to the point that I decide to give the 2 weeks. In the meantime, I'm just putting my head down (with a smirk) trying to finish off whatever work is left. It sorta works out because my workload is *somewhat* starting to wind down and diminish.

Yea I'll have to create some "space" as far as an office is concerned. I have the room for it and will definitely need to set the boundary - my wife is pretty good about staying out of my hair if she knows I have work. I also asked for a remote office location setup to go into on an as-needed basis but I may end up making it a point to go once or twice a week in case I start going crazy from being at home all day.

jeromedawg

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #111 on: November 13, 2015, 02:54:29 PM »
Something else I'm concerned about is health coverage. Looking through the benefits for the new place, they don't kick in until after a month of service at the company. If I give my notice on December 30th, and start on the 31st, it sounds like there will be a gap in health coverage for all or most of January. What provisions do I have in light of this? We have an appointment for our son scheduled in January so I don't want to be left shorthanded.

reader2580

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #112 on: November 13, 2015, 03:05:25 PM »
I would not go without health insurance even if you had no appointments scheduled.  Emergencies can come up at any time.

I wish I could telecommute.  I work in an office by myself remote from the rest of my team.  If I am going to be remote why not from home?  I occasionally go to the main office and hear about all kinds of projects and such that I never heard about not being there.  Management from the top down wants everyone in the office and not at home, even if it costs the money extra for office space.

jeromedawg

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #113 on: November 13, 2015, 03:21:43 PM »
I would not go without health insurance even if you had no appointments scheduled.  Emergencies can come up at any time.

I wish I could telecommute.  I work in an office by myself remote from the rest of my team.  If I am going to be remote why not from home?  I occasionally go to the main office and hear about all kinds of projects and such that I never heard about not being there.  Management from the top down wants everyone in the office and not at home, even if it costs the money extra for office space.

I think we might be covered by COBRA for instances like these... I'd have to look into it more. But I'm pretty sure if I give noticed by year end, I won't have benefit coverage from my current place spilling over into January...

I dunno, should I ask them if they can negotiate starting health benefits immediately? Or is it a pretty standard given that companies need a month of 'ramp-up' before getting you the health benefits, etc?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 03:26:04 PM by jplee3 »

seattlecyclone

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #114 on: November 13, 2015, 03:47:04 PM »
Sorry for the confusion. My current company offers 4 weeks of parental paid leave. I'm only taking 3 weeks of it initially in December but also filed to take the last week in the first week of January. I guess I just wanted to see if I could start the new job while still receiving benefits of the last week of parental leave (and essentially not tell my current employer anything or just tell them like on 1/8 for instance that I'm not coming back) but it doesn't sound like that would really work and would probably burn bridges.

For the 2 week rule, do I really need to give them *exactly* 2 weeks notice? Couldn't I just give my notice on 12/18 (which is the last day of my 3rd week of parental leave) and say that 12/30 will be my last day?

What two-week rule? Are you not an at-will employee? If you are, you can quit at any time with no notice required. It's possible they have a policy saying you can't get paid for a leave if you never return to work. What if you took a vacation day from your new job to go back to the old job after your leave to read your email, send in a resignation note, and pack your desk? Not something you would want to do if you ever want to work for that company again, but they're about to lay you off anyway so maybe you shouldn't be as concerned about burning bridges.

jeromedawg

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #115 on: November 13, 2015, 04:11:16 PM »
Sorry for the confusion. My current company offers 4 weeks of parental paid leave. I'm only taking 3 weeks of it initially in December but also filed to take the last week in the first week of January. I guess I just wanted to see if I could start the new job while still receiving benefits of the last week of parental leave (and essentially not tell my current employer anything or just tell them like on 1/8 for instance that I'm not coming back) but it doesn't sound like that would really work and would probably burn bridges.

For the 2 week rule, do I really need to give them *exactly* 2 weeks notice? Couldn't I just give my notice on 12/18 (which is the last day of my 3rd week of parental leave) and say that 12/30 will be my last day?

What two-week rule? Are you not an at-will employee? If you are, you can quit at any time with no notice required. It's possible they have a policy saying you can't get paid for a leave if you never return to work. What if you took a vacation day from your new job to go back to the old job after your leave to read your email, send in a resignation note, and pack your desk? Not something you would want to do if you ever want to work for that company again, but they're about to lay you off anyway so maybe you shouldn't be as concerned about burning bridges.

Great point - yes the employment currently is "at will" - I guess the "two-week" rule is more along the lines of maintaining etiquette and staying on good terms with my manager (who I definitely wouldn't want to burn bridges with). Of course, I think he understands the predicament and probably would be fine either way I decide to terminate it but I also don't want to presume. I think the key thing is as long as I finish off whatever I need to finish without leaving a full plate for the next person, he would probably be fine however I decide to call it quits. This is all speculation of course... That said, I think I'll stick with the plan of giving some advanced notice on either 12/18 or 12/21 when I'm back at work, with 12/30 being my official last day. Not sure I want to mess around with trying to gain that extra last week of parental leave during the first week of January when I'd technically be employed and working under the new employer (then again, all this is around the New Year anyway when nothing is really going on hahaha)

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #116 on: November 13, 2015, 06:16:39 PM »
I am surprised that your he

catccc

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #117 on: November 14, 2015, 01:59:20 PM »
It's only November, can you take that week of parental leave sooner?  Or take a day here or there and tell them it'll come off of the week you were planning to take in Jan?  Then give notice whenever you originally planned and say your last day is 12/30?  The two-week "rule" is just a customary thing and isn't really a rule, so don't worry about it.  You can make strides towards documentation of your processes and train anyone who might pick up your slack under the guise of cross training for your parental leave.  The aren't going to replace you in two weeks, so it really doesn't matter if you give them one or two or none.  If you are trying to do the right thing here, just work on transitioning your responsibilities, that's what really matters, not how much notice you give them. 

jeromedawg

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #118 on: November 14, 2015, 05:34:47 PM »
It's only November, can you take that week of parental leave sooner?  Or take a day here or there and tell them it'll come off of the week you were planning to take in Jan?  Then give notice whenever you originally planned and say your last day is 12/30?  The two-week "rule" is just a customary thing and isn't really a rule, so don't worry about it.  You can make strides towards documentation of your processes and train anyone who might pick up your slack under the guise of cross training for your parental leave.  The aren't going to replace you in two weeks, so it really doesn't matter if you give them one or two or none.  If you are trying to do the right thing here, just work on transitioning your responsibilities, that's what really matters, not how much notice you give them.

The current company sorta makes a big deal out of parental leave (it's a new policy) especially since it mixes in with FMLA, so they want a pretty good heads-up notice on when you plan to take it. I suppose I could request to take the week before Nov 30th (or even all of December) but if the former that really leaves me little runway for transition (and my manager would probably not be happy and likely suspicious). If I did it in December, I'm afraid my company might revoke the [paid] benefit accusing me of abusing it (e.g. if I'm on the last week of parental leave and give my notice then, they could say "well, we're not going to pay you out for it" or something along those lines). I guess I'm willing to forfeit 1 week of leave to "play it safe" and maximize the benefit. The main thing, more than anything, is that I don't have this looming target termination date hovering overhead anymore.

Actually, thinking about it more, I *could* take 11/30-12/25 for parental leave (they make you take it by the week, not by day). Then give my "notice" on 12/28 - my manager may not even be around or in the office at that time so I'm not exactly sure how effective that would be. But I suppose as long as all my transitional stuff is done by the end of this month, I should be OK. I just have a feeling everyone will be on vacation during that time lol. As far as giving notice, is doing it over the phone or via email OK if I may not be around and was planning to be "working from home" during that time?
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 05:44:24 PM by jplee3 »

nobody123

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #119 on: November 16, 2015, 07:51:43 AM »
COBRA will most likely be pretty costly.  I would see if the January doctor appointment could be moved up into December so it will fall under your current insurance.  You have some time to file for COBRA, so don't pay the premium unless you need to use it.  That's what I did when I changed jobs, but again that was before children. 

Personally, I would resign in person.  Even if all of your direct management is on vacation, you can hand your letter into HR with two weeks notice.  Do you really want to be known as the guy who resigned via email with less than two weeks notice while on the new leave policy?  It's a small world and a lot of your coworkers will be scattering around due to the layoffs, do you really want their lasting opinion of you to be that you didn't have the common courtesy to quit properly?

jeromedawg

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #120 on: November 16, 2015, 05:13:52 PM »
COBRA will most likely be pretty costly.  I would see if the January doctor appointment could be moved up into December so it will fall under your current insurance.  You have some time to file for COBRA, so don't pay the premium unless you need to use it.  That's what I did when I changed jobs, but again that was before children. 

Personally, I would resign in person.  Even if all of your direct management is on vacation, you can hand your letter into HR with two weeks notice.  Do you really want to be known as the guy who resigned via email with less than two weeks notice while on the new leave policy?  It's a small world and a lot of your coworkers will be scattering around due to the layoffs, do you really want their lasting opinion of you to be that you didn't have the common courtesy to quit properly?

We're planning to schedule in December instead.

As far as notice, we don't have HR on site here so giving resignation in person might be a real challenge of no managers or directors are around. I just found out too that my immediate manager is leaving end of this month lol... I'm not sure who they'll put in charge but regardless, if that person and the director are out of town I'm not sure how I'd give my notice in person. The office here is just a remote site for a division that they're going to phase out soon enough. Not sure if many people really would care about how someone gives their notice when everyone is too busy trying to lookout for themselves as it is.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 05:17:15 PM by jplee3 »

lhamo

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #121 on: November 16, 2015, 09:30:39 PM »
Do you think you might be able to check with your supervisor and see if he would be willing to approve you for full four weeks of family leave from Nov 30-Dec 25, and then once it is approved put in your notice for Dec. 30th being your last day?  Seems like somebody who is leaving himself won't really care what happens after he goes.  That is giving them more than 2 weeks notice.  If the leave policy is in writing, they can't very well withhold it from you. 

jeromedawg

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #122 on: November 16, 2015, 09:56:19 PM »
Do you think you might be able to check with your supervisor and see if he would be willing to approve you for full four weeks of family leave from Nov 30-Dec 25, and then once it is approved put in your notice for Dec. 30th being your last day?  Seems like somebody who is leaving himself won't really care what happens after he goes.  That is giving them more than 2 weeks notice.  If the leave policy is in writing, they can't very well withhold it from you.

The thing about the parental leave is that we not only have to get approval from our manager but also have HR sign off on it. The process can take a while, and especially now it seems HR has been slow to respond. It might be worth a try but I think my manager may also pass the request onto the director as well for additional approval. I'm not 100% sure on the chain of command but you're probably right in that he doesn't care a whole lot considering he'll be gone soon. I'll see if I can bring it up with him. What I'm afraid of is if they (HR) tell me I can't do that because it's not in "accordance with policy" or whatever.


EDIT... actually I just read through the FAQs and this is what it says:

Q. What happens if I leave the company and have not taken any or all of my Parental Leave?
A. Paid Parental Leave is a benefit available while actively employed. Unused Parental Leave time not taken prior to termination is forfeited.


The way I'm reading it, it *seems* as though they are encouraging us to use up the Parental Leave. In that case, maybe I will check with my manager. But I'm still not sure about when to give my notice. On one hand it seems bad to give notice *while* on leave... on the other hand, it also seems kind of bad to give notice a month ahead before I even go on leave, with the leave pretty much extending right into my last day.

Unless I give my notice in person and drop off my letter on the 21st while I'm technically on leave.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 10:22:55 PM by jplee3 »

jeromedawg

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #123 on: December 22, 2015, 12:38:00 AM »
Just a quick update on things - I ended up giving my notice today. I went into the office with my letter of resignation and waited around for the director to show up. She didn't seem upset that I was essentially giving her a few days notice (because I'm supposed to return to the office on Dec 28th and my last day is the 30th). I think she knows that my workload has dwindled down and there isn't much left for me to do, but at the same time it was interesting because it seemed she was trying to make me feel bad for leaving all while not really asking for me to stay and reconsider or even going down the counter-offer route. Makes sense, I don't really know her and she doesn't really know me. But she made a lot of judgement-like statements and observations about me... one that irked me was something along the lines of:

"I think you're making a mistake in not riding out this tough wave for your bonus... I'm pretty sure you could find the same opportunity that you're leaving this place for six months from now when your end date is and after you get your payout. And if you don't think that you could find something then, that just means you lack confidence in yourself... and that's what I've noticed with quite a few people [around here]" - at least, in more or less words, that seemed to be what she was saying or implying. Kind of a back-handed compliment... I didn't want to get into it with her but I did mention that waiting for another opportunity to come up vs taking what's in front now is more of a risk thing and made more sense in terms of my own timing. It really has less to do with "feeling confident" about myself... part of why I took the other offer was because it was good and I didn't *want* to go through all the interviewing six plus months from now (or even during the remaining period I had with the company). She did say "well anyway, try it out and if you don't like it talk to me later because it's an open door here for you" - nice gesture but when I think about it it sorta sounded like "when you find that things aren't working for you, call out and I'll throw you a bone" LOL.

She went on to talk about how telecommuting isn't as great as it sounds and that I'm silo-ing myself of career growth and advancing (which in her mind seems to be a lot of moving up in managerial rank via politicking). Another funny thing was that she told me about how they brought a former employee back (he was part of the original layoffs) to interview for my team's lead position (because my lead recently left) and solicited from me feedback on the guy as a potential candidate. Obviously, she didn't believe in me enough to say "Hey you know, would you consider staying with us if we put you into the lead role?" - I likely would have rejected it anyway, knowing how crazy things are.

Anyway, sort of venting but trying not to get caught up in all the riff-raff and "backlash" of giving notice. I'm sure she had to say the right "managerial" things and I think some of what she said was with good intent to make me think and consider my decision. Haha, right after the meeting ended, she went straight over to our recruiter's office probably to tell the recruiter to step-it-up with filling the lead role and also now my role. 
« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 06:11:58 PM by jplee3 »

Axecleaver

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #124 on: December 22, 2015, 09:40:37 AM »
That's a pretty good outcome. It's normal for managers to feel rejected when people in their org decide to abandon ship. We're all human. Never try to justify or defend your decision. In a situation like this, you say thanks for the advice, and move on, no matter how useful or appropriate the advice is.

It's pretty immature to tell someone who is leaving, that they're making a big mistake. The right thing for the Director to say was, "Thanks for your service, best of luck, let me know if you'd like a letter of recommendation." Offering to rehire you if things don't work out is a nice thing to do, and fairly rare. You should take that as a compliment.

If you can muster the energy, follow up with her in a month or two to keep the relationship alive. Don't use the opportunity to tell her your new job is great, just let her know you're keeping in touch in case new opportunities arise. Set a reminder to follow up with her once every 6 months to a year. Do this for every person in your work network and the next time you're out of a job, you'll have a strong rolodex of people to call.

jeromedawg

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #125 on: December 22, 2015, 11:39:48 AM »
That's a pretty good outcome. It's normal for managers to feel rejected when people in their org decide to abandon ship. We're all human. Never try to justify or defend your decision. In a situation like this, you say thanks for the advice, and move on, no matter how useful or appropriate the advice is.

It's pretty immature to tell someone who is leaving, that they're making a big mistake. The right thing for the Director to say was, "Thanks for your service, best of luck, let me know if you'd like a letter of recommendation." Offering to rehire you if things don't work out is a nice thing to do, and fairly rare. You should take that as a compliment.

If you can muster the energy, follow up with her in a month or two to keep the relationship alive. Don't use the opportunity to tell her your new job is great, just let her know you're keeping in touch in case new opportunities arise. Set a reminder to follow up with her once every 6 months to a year. Do this for every person in your work network and the next time you're out of a job, you'll have a strong rolodex of people to call.

Yeah, she's more the optimistic type I guess. I don't think she said "big mistake" exactly but either way it came out like that in the overall context of the conversation. I think she was trying to fallback to the "I'm talking to you as a peer, not a manager" tactic. It's odd because that was literally the very first one-on-one conversation I've ever had with her, so she said a lot of things that most people would consider "bold" lol. Not a big deal - I guess she has a lot of "confidence" and felt like she could be frank with me since we have worked at the same place for several years.

I'll probably add her on LinkedIn and keep in touch that way. I need to follow-up with my former lead as well - I was getting frustrated with him because he kept pulling me in different directions and I think he could sense my frustration so would try to back off as much as possible. I realize now that he was only doing what he was told, and didn't like it either, which I'm pretty sure is why he left. I've been keeping in touch with my former manager there (who was part of the layoffs) - he and I have an excellent relationship as he's the one who originally hired me into my first full-time job (which happened to be with that company pre-IPO a long time ago). I've only somehow burnt bridges with people from my last place of employment - I think some of them got all butt-hurt because I wouldn't tell them where my next place of employment was, so my previous manager at that company has never accepted my LinkedIn requests or really reached out to me (he did call me a week into my current job to ask me for details on access to something but after that, he seems to have acted all catty...)
« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 11:46:51 AM by jplee3 »

SKL-HOU

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #126 on: December 22, 2015, 02:33:35 PM »
From what I read, it wasn't really because of lack of confidence in yourself but more like lack of confidence in the company.

mozar

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #127 on: December 22, 2015, 05:36:36 PM »
What a meanie. Good thing you're getting away. That's all that matters.

jeromedawg

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #128 on: December 22, 2015, 06:22:07 PM »
What a meanie. Good thing you're getting away. That's all that matters.

There were certainly overtones of passive-aggressiveness LOL. I just get the feeling that most of the people reporting to her aren't too fond of her as a manager/director. And the ones that seem to be on her side are the ones whom she's promoted to managerial and lead positions. Compared to my former manager who was laid off, I think she's on the declining side of the likability scale. I don't think she's a bad manager or anything, but I think it's hard to fill someone else's shoes (even if they were under you in hierarchy) and expect to get the same response with a pretty different management style.

nobody123

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #129 on: December 23, 2015, 11:29:05 AM »
"I think you're making a mistake in not riding out this tough wave for your bonus... I'm pretty sure you could find the same opportunity that you're leaving this place for six months from now when your end date is and after you get your payout. And if you don't think that you could find something then, that just means you lack confidence in yourself... and that's what I've noticed with quite a few people [around here]" - at least, in more or less words, that seemed to be what she was saying or implying. Kind of a back-handed compliment... I didn't want to get into it with her but I did mention that waiting for another opportunity to come up vs taking what's in front now is more of a risk thing and made more sense in terms of my own timing. It really has less to do with "feeling confident" about myself... part of why I took the other offer was because it was good and I didn't *want* to go through all the interviewing six plus months from now (or even during the remaining period I had with the company). She did say "well anyway, try it out and if you don't like it talk to me later because it's an open door here for you" - nice gesture but when I think about it it sorta sounded like "when you find that things aren't working for you, call out and I'll throw you a bone" LOL.

Eh, you leaving on your terms instead of the company's throws a wrench in their plans, so she is trying to get you to stay.  If they really viewed you as super-valuable, they would have transferred you to another area not affected by layoffs already.   Even if everything she said is 100% true, it's still worth it to leave given your circumstances.  Worst case, you reapply at the company in 6 months or a year but demand a decent raise to come back. 

The "lack of confidence in themselves" comment could be her misreading the financial situations of others.  Maybe they can't afford to miss a paycheck or two, so they are jumping to what they view as a safer option, especially if the "bonus" has not been agreed to in a contract.  And as a director, her severance is probably a lot better than what they're offering the rank and file, so that may be skewing her judgment as well.

mm1970

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #130 on: December 23, 2015, 11:34:54 AM »
From what I read, it wasn't really because of lack of confidence in yourself but more like lack of confidence in the company.
Yes, this.

But managers want to make you feel bad sometimes

Daisy

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #131 on: December 23, 2015, 11:46:35 AM »
Maybe your current supervisor's "bonus" severance is dependent on how many people she can keep around until the summer when they want everyone to stick around for to pad their bottom lines by outsourcing your work to cheaper labor. So now you may have screwed up her bonus by not staying. If everyone under her leaves then they can't properly transition the work and their costs may go up.

Just saying...

PS Congrats on the new job. Now you can focus on growing your career at the new place and be in a more positive environment.

jeromedawg

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Re: Bittersweet Job news
« Reply #132 on: December 25, 2015, 11:47:14 AM »
Maybe your current supervisor's "bonus" severance is dependent on how many people she can keep around until the summer when they want everyone to stick around for to pad their bottom lines by outsourcing your work to cheaper labor. So now you may have screwed up her bonus by not staying. If everyone under her leaves then they can't properly transition the work and their costs may go up.

Just saying...

PS Congrats on the new job. Now you can focus on growing your career at the new place and be in a more positive environment.

Thanks! Yea it might be but I'm pretty sure she didn't get a package or anything and is in it for the "long haul" but I think she knows that the more people she loses the harder it's going to be (and possibly the worse it's going to look) for her. I mean, what manager wants to see their team diminish through rough times? It's a hit to their pride for sure, and can make things a logistical nightmare. The way I see things though, they already made it a point to not show any interest in me long-term, and my workload has literally dwindled down to nothing, so what's the point of staying? Sit around and rot (and not be productive) for the next 6 months waiting for a not truly set-in-stone bonus and severance? Or take a new job with new experience and solid salary where I'm going to be learning new things and working with new people? Personally, I lean towards the latter. I have a feeling there will be more people leaving as well over the course of the next few months, so that would really throw a wrench in the plans.

"I think you're making a mistake in not riding out this tough wave for your bonus... I'm pretty sure you could find the same opportunity that you're leaving this place for six months from now when your end date is and after you get your payout. And if you don't think that you could find something then, that just means you lack confidence in yourself... and that's what I've noticed with quite a few people [around here]" - at least, in more or less words, that seemed to be what she was saying or implying. Kind of a back-handed compliment... I didn't want to get into it with her but I did mention that waiting for another opportunity to come up vs taking what's in front now is more of a risk thing and made more sense in terms of my own timing. It really has less to do with "feeling confident" about myself... part of why I took the other offer was because it was good and I didn't *want* to go through all the interviewing six plus months from now (or even during the remaining period I had with the company). She did say "well anyway, try it out and if you don't like it talk to me later because it's an open door here for you" - nice gesture but when I think about it it sorta sounded like "when you find that things aren't working for you, call out and I'll throw you a bone" LOL.

Eh, you leaving on your terms instead of the company's throws a wrench in their plans, so she is trying to get you to stay.  If they really viewed you as super-valuable, they would have transferred you to another area not affected by layoffs already.   Even if everything she said is 100% true, it's still worth it to leave given your circumstances.  Worst case, you reapply at the company in 6 months or a year but demand a decent raise to come back. 

The "lack of confidence in themselves" comment could be her misreading the financial situations of others.  Maybe they can't afford to miss a paycheck or two, so they are jumping to what they view as a safer option, especially if the "bonus" has not been agreed to in a contract.  And as a director, her severance is probably a lot better than what they're offering the rank and file, so that may be skewing her judgment as well.

Yea, she did mention from what I told her that "moving to a parallel position just doesn't make sense" - in my case, whether it's parallel or not doesn't make a difference. I don't want to stay on a potentially sinking ship with so much uncertainty in the air. It's possible she's misreading our financial situation. I don't know if she has the details of our individual bonuses but she was tossing around "bonus" pretty liberally. If I stayed for the bonus, it's not like it would cause my salary for the next year to skyrocket or exceed what I normally would make. It would be more like working half a year to earn *close* to what my full year's salary would be (if I factored in severance too). So I could, in theory, "take a break" from June through the rest of the year and not have to worry too much. I think she is overconfident in making judgment statements because she's not in the same or similar position herself. It's easy to make assumptions about others when you can't empathize yourself...