Recruiter from a 'desirable' company reaching out after starting new position

[jeromedawg]

Hey all,

I'm sure it's all premature and I should just "have the conversation" regardless but thinking ahead to the "well, what if this gets into interviews?" phase.... anyway, I've been in touch with a recruiter at FAANG who wants to discuss some opportunities. In the past I've mostly just written-off FAANG because I don't feel qualified to work at any of them. I interviewed with one and didn't do to well, and was ghosted by another. I figure low expectations either way.

That said, I just started a new position at a very good company in biotech/medical devices. They are basically the leader in their niche area of devices and treatment and were just acquired by a larger org. The company culture is awesome and everyone here knows they are working for the 'greater cause' and thus a majority of people...in fact, everyone I've encountered so far, puts the work before their ego (and if there is any ego there's very little to none of it). It's a "perfect match" for me as far as culture is concerned. The pay is commensurate although I didn't negotiate that well and nearly lost the opportunity by pushing too hard. Work-life balance is outstanding and extremely flexible. The PTO/vacation policy isn't great but my manager, the team, and many peers operate in a highly autonomous fashion and my manager will just tell us to do what we want and take care of what we need as long as we get our work done (sort of an 'unspoken' flex time off type of thing). Everyone is a "peer" of one another and no one I've met acts in a condescending or commandeering manner. It is a rare quality I'd say and probably the first company I've experienced this at, so definitely a shock to me. At almost 4 months in now, I suppose you could say I'm still in somewhat of a "honeymoon" phase haha. Long-term stability wise, it seems there's a higher probability that I can stick around (just moving across different parts and functions of the company) if I wanted to. They really seem big into investing in their employees and making sure they are setup for success. Again, not something I've consistently seen anywhere else I've worked. I'm still trying to wrap my head around all that my role encompasses - it's not super defined, other than that they wanted someone with a background in software QA to come in and help 'support' processes that are agile-ish but that also can't fully be agile in the context of medical devices subject to regulatory measures and controls.

Now, the FAANG recruiter who I'm talking to hasn't said much about the position only that she wants to have an "exploratory" chat for the division/group she recruits for. I looked the position up that I *think* she wants to talk about and I think it would be a lot more technically hands-on than what I'm doing now. Honestly, I don't know if I want to go back to being super hands-on technical and especially automation (I've dipped my toes in it but never jumped fully in) - it's nice taking a break/reset from it and looking at things from a level or two up higher in the chain (I'm along the lines of risk mgmt/assessment/etc from a software quality perspective). 

If it turns out that she wants to forward me onto interview rounds and I oblige and it actually gets to the point of an offer, I'm going to feel very conflicted about the whole thing 1) because I really like my current company and 2) because I literally just started and it'll feel like I'd be flaking out and leaving my current manager in a bad position. I'm guessing the pay at this FAANG company would be significantly more though and the company culture, perks and other stuff would probably be pretty great as well. Stability wise, I'm not so sure how that would look for this particular company.

I'm sure there are a few of you who have been in a position like this... so how did you handle it? Did you ever decline a potentially great position out of a sense of 'loyalty' (perhaps this isn't the best word I'm looking for but we'll just run with it for now) to your current company? As a side: I know everyone cautions not to feel obligated to any company since they basically are never going to "feel obligated" to their employees...

[MaybeBabyMustache]

Disclaimer, work at a FAANG company.

I'd probably continue with the exploration discussion, while sharing with your recruiter that you've just started another role. Why would I do that? It can take a REALLY long time to close a role at a big company. And, if you're not willing to leave now and/or this role isn't a fit, it's possible that a future role would be a fit, and the timeline may work better. That will also give you more time to get a sense for your current employer and long term fit.

[jeromedawg]

Disclaimer, work at a FAANG company.

I'd probably continue with the exploration discussion, while sharing with your recruiter that you've just started another role. Why would I do that? It can take a REALLY long time to close a role at a big company. And, if you're not willing to leave now and/or this role isn't a fit, it's possible that a future role would be a fit, and the timeline may work better. That will also give you more time to get a sense for your current employer and long term fit.

Good advice. I'll definitely make sure that I mention this to her - should I place any emphasis on how I really like it at the current place, etc? (but framing it like "I just started several months ago and I'm learning something relatively new that is outside of the scope of work I've historically done in QA - I'm finding it to be a great experience, very interesting, and I'm really enjoying working here" Or is that unnecessary?

[MaybeBabyMustache]

I'd keep it high level (I actually just started in a new role, and while it's early days, I'm enjoying the experience so far, and am not actively looking or planning a role switch), unless something specific about your new role is relevant about your qualifications for the role they are pitching.

[seattlecyclone]

Disclaimer, work at a FAANG company.

I'd probably continue with the exploration discussion, while sharing with your recruiter that you've just started another role. Why would I do that? It can take a REALLY long time to close a role at a big company. And, if you're not willing to leave now and/or this role isn't a fit, it's possible that a future role would be a fit, and the timeline may work better. That will also give you more time to get a sense for your current employer and long term fit.

Good advice. I'll definitely make sure that I mention this to her - should I place any emphasis on how I really like it at the current place, etc? (but framing it like "I just started several months ago and I'm learning something relatively new that is outside of the scope of work I've historically done in QA - I'm finding it to be a great experience, very interesting, and I'm really enjoying working here" Or is that unnecessary?

I think it can be useful to say stuff like this. It helps you start from a position of strength; instead of the discussion being entirely about you needing to prove that you're worthy, it puts some of the onus on them to prove to you that the opportunity they have to offer you is something you should be willing to leave your current company to do.

As to concerns about leaving your current team in the lurch, remember it's just business. Your employer wouldn't hesitate to let you go the moment it seems in their best interest to do so; you should feel absolutely no loyalty to them greater than they have to you.

(I've worked for two of the five letters in that acronym, if you care)

[Syonyk]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with talking to recruiters and going through the interview process while you're happily employed.  I've done it a number of times.  Often, one side or the other (ideally mutually...) decides that things aren't really lined up and you go on your ways having had some interesting conversations.  I personally prefer interviewing when I'm not looking, because it's a whole lot more relaxing and low stress than trying to find a job, and if stuff moves slowly, oh well.  I've had it take a year between "initial contact with a recruiter" and "starting a position" before, which isn't a big deal if you enjoy what you're doing in the meantime and have income.  I generally don't move quickly in terms of employment anyway, and typically take a few months off between positions for sanity reasons and reset reasons, so the slower pace doesn't bother me at all.

I wouldn't tell your current employer you're interviewing, though - make some excuse if you're going to interview onsite, though I don't think those are things anymore...

In any case, worry about if you get an offer.  There are several possibilities at that point:
- The offer, or the details of the position, aren't very interesting to you.  Your current position is better, you tell them, "No, not right now," and go on with life.
- The offer is reasonable, the position is reasonable, but it's no real change over what you're doing now.  At this point, you have some confirmation that your salary is sane, and you can decide if you want to stay or go.  FAANGs on the resume aren't a bad option - a few years at one and you "solve" getting through HR for the rest of your career.  It used to be that Microsoft on your resume would guarantee a call back, now the FAANGs (and probably still Microsoft) accomplish that, if it matters to you.
- The offer is absurdly good - they ask what you're looking for in salary, you toss out a "They'll laugh at this, but we can negotiate towards the middle..." high number, and they say, "Ok."  At this point, if the position is something you're willing to do, you share the details of the offer with your current employer and see if they're willing to match it (or get closer than they are).  If yes, great.  You've leveraged an offer for a nice salary bump.  If they don't match it, you walk and go work for the big pay bump.

All of these are common enough in my circles.

There's really no downside to the process beyond the time invested.

[pound_foolish]

Just a couple of walls of text things to keep in mind:

1) Tech interviews, especially at FAANG and FAANG-adjacent companies, can be incredibly stressful. I usually spend at least a month preparing for them, and while I enjoy them in the moment, my body and mind let me know in other ways that actually I'm very stressed. In short, I would never interview "just for fun" anymore. Of course you can try without prep, but then you'll fail and be off their lists for at least a year.

2) Don't ever, under any circumstances, be the first one to say a number regarding future compensation. Make sure you do your research on sites like levels.fyi so you know what you should be able to expect, but make sure they blink first. Especially FAANG companies think they're all that, and will push super hard, getting to be actually rude about it, but you don't have to tell them anything, nor should you. (Remember that they have ALL the information, except for your current salary and your expectations. Why would you show them the only cards you have to yourself? They're not going to tell you a single thing about what they know!)

3) Recruiters lie. Always. (At least at big tech companies.) For example, when I went to a FAANG, I was pressured heavily by the recruiter in ways that I realized once I had joined were straight-up lies and bullying tactics. So be super sure you know what you're being recruited for, and don't be afraid to ask to talk to recruiters from other groups (they don't always let you, but if they don't then you know you don't want to be working with this recruiter, because they're hiring for a group that no one wants to work for). I've known software engineers who were hired at the FAANG I was at into an SRE role, with the promise that it's cool work (they all hated it) and that it's easy after a year and a half to switch to actual SWE (it's incredibly difficult - harder than getting in from outside. For example, it involves showing a sizable non-SRE software project that you've written while at the company. With what time? Well, that's your problem, not theirs). In short: all lies to get good engineers for roles they're having a hard time hiring for.

Obviously, if you're being recruited for a team that does work you're actually interested in, you're ok with any moral and ethical issues that may arise working for them, and you'd be OK leaving your current job for it, then go for it, and best of luck!

[MaybeBabyMustache]

@pound_foolish - I'm sorry to hear you've had such a bad experience at tech companies.

Two additional thoughts, @jeromedawg

1) Depending on which FAANG company you are referring to (although, I assume they almost all have similar processes), all roles will be paid within a level band, depending on the level of the role. For example, if you are interviewing for a mid level role and the company pay band for that role is between $120-140K, the recruiter can't just offer you $95k, because you lowballed with your current comp. They also likely can't offer you $160k, even if it's what you make now. They could have more flex around sign on bonus, etc. I do think it's reasonable to let them give you an offer first, and negotiate upward from there.

2) Recruiters don't always lie at big tech companies. Not a recruiter, but recruit for dozens of roles a year, and always talk to my onboarded hires afterward. I would be VERY displeased as a hiring manager if my new employees were sold a bill of BS walking into a job.

[Shwaa]

Reading between the lines here but it sounds like you are a Software QA with some technical experience but now are doing more manual testing? Or just overseeing some processes at the biotech company?  It sounds pretty vague.

My concern would be if you aren't doing technical work now, unless you are an actual QA manager, your skills are going to deteriorate over time at this new company.  If you are truly in more of a supervisor type role now then disregard what I am saying to an extent.
 
I would look at the FAANG option with an open mind, although if you really don't have a lot of automation experience I would be surprised if they bring you on board.   Let's see though.  Good luck!

[jeromedawg]

Reading between the lines here but it sounds like you are a Software QA with some technical experience but now are doing more manual testing? Or just overseeing some processes at the biotech company?  It sounds pretty vague.

My concern would be if you aren't doing technical work now, unless you are an actual QA manager, your skills are going to deteriorate over time at this new company.  If you are truly in more of a supervisor type role now then disregard what I am saying to an extent.
 
I would look at the FAANG option with an open mind, although if you really don't have a lot of automation experience I would be surprised if they bring you on board.   Let's see though.  Good luck!

I'm in a "Design QA" role for a medical device company, so it includes a lot of quality planning, risk management, and oversight activities. It almost seems like it could be supervisory in some ways but it's more of a niche SME role where you're doing a lot more 'fact-checking' to make sure all the engineers, QA, product mgmt, etc are doing what they're supposed to be doing (*almost* project manager-ish if you will but at a higher level). Right now I'm going through a gap assessment and soon I'll be doing a risk assessment/risk planning for another product. All of this stuff is new to me and definitely outside the scope of standard software QA. You hit the nail on the head with my concern about skills deteriorating. But for a while now I've questioned my desire (and even ability) to "hang" on the technical side, especially pertaining to automation. Part of the problem is that I'm not naturally inclined to or "enjoy" coding/scripting unless there's a hard need and I can go at my own pace. I like tinkering and figuring stuff out but in a very one-off and not super integrated way e.g. I can get some satisfaction out of writing simple Bash/Python scripts to do something or kick a process of or whatever but when it comes to writing a full fledged program and checking it into Git, SVN, etc it's not my cup of tea - a lot of it is just figuring out the process for all that stuff but I'm not a true developer nor do I have the background. I'm more of the guy who is reasonably OK at breaking stuff (but not to the level of destroying like really good white/grey/blackhat hackers and top-notch QA people do) or coming up with some off-the-cuff short-term solutions for things. I felt like my technical skills were already diminishing at the last company I was at - very little growth, a lot of repetition, and all manual testing. It got to be pretty boring and slow.

[Shwaa]

Reading between the lines here but it sounds like you are a Software QA with some technical experience but now are doing more manual testing? Or just overseeing some processes at the biotech company?  It sounds pretty vague.

My concern would be if you aren't doing technical work now, unless you are an actual QA manager, your skills are going to deteriorate over time at this new company.  If you are truly in more of a supervisor type role now then disregard what I am saying to an extent.
 
I would look at the FAANG option with an open mind, although if you really don't have a lot of automation experience I would be surprised if they bring you on board.   Let's see though.  Good luck!

I'm in a "Design QA" role for a medical device company, so it includes a lot of quality planning, risk management, and oversight activities. It almost seems like it could be supervisory in some ways but it's more of a niche SME role where you're doing a lot more 'fact-checking' to make sure all the engineers, QA, product mgmt, etc are doing what they're supposed to be doing (*almost* project manager-ish if you will but at a higher level). Right now I'm going through a gap assessment and soon I'll be doing a risk assessment/risk planning for another product. All of this stuff is new to me and definitely outside the scope of standard software QA. You hit the nail on the head with my concern about skills deteriorating. But for a while now I've questioned my desire (and even ability) to "hang" on the technical side, especially pertaining to automation. Part of the problem is that I'm not naturally inclined to or "enjoy" coding/scripting unless there's a hard need and I can go at my own pace. I like tinkering and figuring stuff out but in a very one-off and not super integrated way e.g. I can get some satisfaction out of writing simple Bash/Python scripts to do something or kick a process of or whatever but when it comes to writing a full fledged program and checking it into Git, SVN, etc it's not my cup of tea - a lot of it is just figuring out the process for all that stuff but I'm not a true developer nor do I have the background. I'm more of the guy who is reasonably OK at breaking stuff (but not to the level of destroying like really good white/grey/blackhat hackers and top-notch QA people do) or coming up with some off-the-cuff short-term solutions for things. I felt like my technical skills were already diminishing at the last company I was at - very little growth, a lot of repetition, and all manual testing. It got to be pretty boring and slow.

That definitely sounds like an interesting role, yea it's more of a SME combined with QA.  Cool. Yea, keep your options open but if it were me I would always be looking to keep my skills current, at least to some extent.    I have been at the same Biotech company for a long time (first as a Research Associate, then a Manual Software QA on a Scrum Team, then a Data Warehouse QA and now as a Test Automation Engineer) and it's easy to become complacent.

[jeromedawg]

Reading between the lines here but it sounds like you are a Software QA with some technical experience but now are doing more manual testing? Or just overseeing some processes at the biotech company?  It sounds pretty vague.

My concern would be if you aren't doing technical work now, unless you are an actual QA manager, your skills are going to deteriorate over time at this new company.  If you are truly in more of a supervisor type role now then disregard what I am saying to an extent.
 
I would look at the FAANG option with an open mind, although if you really don't have a lot of automation experience I would be surprised if they bring you on board.   Let's see though.  Good luck!

I'm in a "Design QA" role for a medical device company, so it includes a lot of quality planning, risk management, and oversight activities. It almost seems like it could be supervisory in some ways but it's more of a niche SME role where you're doing a lot more 'fact-checking' to make sure all the engineers, QA, product mgmt, etc are doing what they're supposed to be doing (*almost* project manager-ish if you will but at a higher level). Right now I'm going through a gap assessment and soon I'll be doing a risk assessment/risk planning for another product. All of this stuff is new to me and definitely outside the scope of standard software QA. You hit the nail on the head with my concern about skills deteriorating. But for a while now I've questioned my desire (and even ability) to "hang" on the technical side, especially pertaining to automation. Part of the problem is that I'm not naturally inclined to or "enjoy" coding/scripting unless there's a hard need and I can go at my own pace. I like tinkering and figuring stuff out but in a very one-off and not super integrated way e.g. I can get some satisfaction out of writing simple Bash/Python scripts to do something or kick a process of or whatever but when it comes to writing a full fledged program and checking it into Git, SVN, etc it's not my cup of tea - a lot of it is just figuring out the process for all that stuff but I'm not a true developer nor do I have the background. I'm more of the guy who is reasonably OK at breaking stuff (but not to the level of destroying like really good white/grey/blackhat hackers and top-notch QA people do) or coming up with some off-the-cuff short-term solutions for things. I felt like my technical skills were already diminishing at the last company I was at - very little growth, a lot of repetition, and all manual testing. It got to be pretty boring and slow.

That definitely sounds like an interesting role, yea it's more of a SME combined with QA.  Cool. Yea, keep your options open but if it were me I would always be looking to keep my skills current, at least to some extent.    I have been at the same Biotech company for a long time (first as a Research Associate, then a Manual Software QA on a Scrum Team, then a Data Warehouse QA and now as a Test Automation Engineer) and it's easy to become complacent.

Yea, honestly I think biotech/med device is a great industry to be in and it seems pretty stable too - a lot of ppl who I've talked with or met in the industry have stayed in it for a long time. Even if they leave they'll end up back at that company or another biotech/med device company.

I was in infosec for a while, so I'll probably try to maintain that to an extent and or go for my CISSP. But I think I should probably do some coding camps and try to get better with Python. It's just hard because there's definitely a difference between learning/understanding coding and *applied* coding/scripting when it comes to actually doing stuff for work.

[Paul der Krake]

For every employee that gets hired at big-name corp, there's like 50 to 100 other people at the top of the hiring funnel, based on how pickiness/aggressiveness of the company.

You are not even in the funnel yet.

You are way, way overthinking this.

[jeromedawg]

For every employee that gets hired at big-name corp, there's like 50 to 100 other people at the top of the hiring funnel, based on how pickiness/aggressiveness of the company.

You are not even in the funnel yet.

You are way, way overthinking this.

I know... just wondering how to proceed in case things move forward though I'm sure it won't go anywhere ;) I'd rather ask the question well ahead of time rather than ask it if or when I'm in the midst of the dilemma

[jeromedawg]

Just spoke with the recruiter. It sounds like a relatively interesting position but I ended up kind of closing the door on it while talking about my current position, etc. Also, it's one of the companies that is trying to move towards a hybrid model and the office location I'd have to go in to is 60 miles away in a northwest part of LA. At a minimum this would be somewhere between a 1-2hr commute 3x a week. I told her that wasn't going to detract me but subliminally I think I just shut it off at that point lol. After giving her my background and sharing with her some of the things I'm involved in now, she brought up how I'm pretty fresh with the current company and was inquiring about the timing of everything and perhaps it's not the best right now. I mostly agreed and I told her that I'd like to continue learning at the current place. She suggested to revisit later down the road and I concurred. I asked for the job description anyway since she never sent it to me from the get-go, just to understand what the position actually is and how well it maps. Turns out it doesn't map *that* well (they are expecting that I have a good handle with Sketchup, Photoshop and Illustrator lol... nope - I've barely been learning Sketchup and more for the purpose of drawing out our home and landscaping to help figure out what we're going to do with all of it). Anyway, she said this is a very new embedded position and they are looking to build a team out based around it, so she's anticipating more opportunities in the future. Whether or not she *actually* keeps in touch with me is another story but no skin off my back haha. I very much do not look forward to even hybrid if the commute is going to be more than 30 minutes. I suppose we could move but I don't even want to think about what the housing market might look like at that point in time, and we're not even settled into our current place yet.

[dividendman]

The fact that you just started at a new company shouldn't enter into the calculation.

[Rdy2Fire]

The fact that you just started at a new company shouldn't enter into the calculation.

I totally agree with this.. I would not 'show my cards' to any recruiter or company because you have no idea what the outcome will be or how you would feel when/if you received an offer, depending on what the offer is.

With that said, as someone who interviewed, the the past, with multiple FAANG's, I would tell you to go through the process. I say process (you can read below) and my guess is, if they haven't changed their recruitment style, you will quickly realize, based on the process, you may have no interest.

My personal experience is similar to yours, I was contacted etc etc.

The 1st company it was a mid-upper level position and I was potentially interested. To cut a long story short when I got to the 5th round and was told I'd be moving on to the psychological interview and if that went well I'd be flown in for a final interview. By this point I just wasn't that interested and gave up. My reason simply being I'd have to be crazy to continue so if I got passed it

2nd company, 1st interview went well, 2nd was a round robin type interview with 4 people and I was passed on to another round and realized I just didn't want to work for these type of companies that were more interested in how I may fit into their culture then if I could do the job. I mean I understand needing a culture fit, there is no question that is important but we were never speaking about the actual role.

Two years after 1st company interviews they contacted me again as I was in their system. The role was interesting although I was happy where I was I thought I'd entertain it, it was starting from scratch in their craziness and I just opted out. Then an upper management person (who I'd work for) contacted me to say the process is tedious and they understand but they really wanted me onboard and would see what could be skipped to just get an offer on the table. After 2 weeks (we touched base a couple of times) he came back and said he was completely frustrated with trying to get people hired; we both gave up. Ironically he ended up leaving (after his stock vested) his role and we ran into each other at a partner event had drinks and laughed about the insanity.

Good luck

[jeromedawg]

The fact that you just started at a new company shouldn't enter into the calculation.

I totally agree with this.. I would not 'show my cards' to any recruiter or company because you have no idea what the outcome will be or how you would feel when/if you received an offer, depending on what the offer is.

With that said, as someone who interviewed, the the past, with multiple FAANG's, I would tell you to go through the process. I say process (you can read below) and my guess is, if they haven't changed their recruitment style, you will quickly realize, based on the process, you may have no interest.

My personal experience is similar to yours, I was contacted etc etc.

The 1st company it was a mid-upper level position and I was potentially interested. To cut a long story short when I got to the 5th round and was told I'd be moving on to the psychological interview and if that went well I'd be flown in for a final interview. By this point I just wasn't that interested and gave up. My reason simply being I'd have to be crazy to continue so if I got passed it

2nd company, 1st interview went well, 2nd was a round robin type interview with 4 people and I was passed on to another round and realized I just didn't want to work for these type of companies that were more interested in how I may fit into their culture then if I could do the job. I mean I understand needing a culture fit, there is no question that is important but we were never speaking about the actual role.

Two years after 1st company interviews they contacted me again as I was in their system. The role was interesting although I was happy where I was I thought I'd entertain it, it was starting from scratch in their craziness and I just opted out. Then an upper management person (who I'd work for) contacted me to say the process is tedious and they understand but they really wanted me onboard and would see what could be skipped to just get an offer on the table. After 2 weeks (we touched base a couple of times) he came back and said he was completely frustrated with trying to get people hired; we both gave up. Ironically he ended up leaving (after his stock vested) his role and we ran into each other at a partner event had drinks and laughed about the insanity.

Good luck

Thanks for sharing. I guess I blew it by conceding to agree that the "timing isn't right" per starting recently at the new company. I don't know, I think a big part of it was the subconscious doubt taking over that it probably wouldn't have gone anywhere (not to mention just being intimidated in general with FAANG interviews), coupled with thoughts of having to commute that far on a hybrid schedule. The hybrid thing was the *first* thing she brought up and probably as a means to try to weed out and make it a quick call, so I'm sure that psyched me out without me even realizing it.

Reading through your experiences, I feel like I resonate very closely - it just seems like a lot of trouble and hoops to jump through. I mean, I guess for the salary potential, it's perhaps worth the "small price to pay" but I've never been a fan of interviews just for the sake of "casually interviewing" - really, it's only one of those things I'll do as a threat response out of necessity (threat of losing my current job). Maybe that's not healthy but that's just how I've operated with them for pretty much all but one or two of my job changes. I just don't enjoy going through barrages of technical quizzing and coding types of interviews - seems half the time the interviewers are doing it just to flex and for myself it's extremely tiring and grueling. Some people think it's enjoyable and fun...good for them lol. Anyway, if the position sounds interesting enough with one of these companies, that would probably be what entices me more at this stage in my life. Re-reading through the job description, I'm just not sure it would have been the best match. Of course, that's kind of how I felt going into my current position but perhaps to a lesser extent haha.