Best country in the world for combo of cheap, safe, and fun

[iamlindoro]

This showed up as one of the rockstarfinance article's today...thought it may be of interest to this thread...

http://frugalvagabond.com/2016/07/07/retire-abroad-july-2016-1200/

Thanks Andy and others who have shared the series in this thread.  It's humbling and gratifying that people enjoy it.  Obviously, my fiancée and I are pro-retirement abroad, but not because we don't love the US. We just happen to love immersing ourselves in other places and cultures, too. One of the big advantages of FIRE is that you can slow your travel way, way down, and get much closer to the prices paid by locals by booking housing for longer durations.

I write the series linked above for our own gratification as much as anyone else's. Putting into context where we could go tomorrow if necessary makes our footing on the path to FI feel much more secure, and gives us an inkling of the real freedom that awaits us ahead.

[dougules]

Umm... but you'd still be in Peru.

Yes, and it would be wonderful. 

How much does it cost to charter a Mercedes somewhere interesting? And at $22 a night, that's over $600 a month, just for lodging. Just sayin'....

You can take the bus just about anywhere there's a road in Peru or in most countries.  Some of those buses are way way nicer than Greyhound for a fraction of the price. 

$22 is the air conditioned hotel room in a skyscraper price.  You can go way cheaper if you practice even the least amount of Mustachianism.  You can live on nearly nothing if you enjoy camping out by the lake and relaxing. 

The US is a great country to see.  It can be cheap if you're already set up here and don't move around a whole lot, but it's quite expensive from the outside looking in when you compare apples to apples.  I get that some people want to stick to developed countries where things are clean and orderly.  I get that you can save a lot of money by sticking close to home and camping out.  I just don't think it's where this thread was headed, though. 

On some level I'm jealous of the people who are happy near home.  That 5000 mile plane ticket is expensive.  Some of us unfortunately have the itch to see those dirty, smelly, chaotic, wonderful places a long ways from wherever the lottery of birth lottery plopped us down. 
 

Hey, at least it's not Ohio...

Or Detroit :) 

[Roland of Gilead]

The USA is huge though.  Most who travel abroad have never actually seen much of the USA.

[dougules]

The USA is huge though.  Most who travel abroad have never actually seen much of the USA.

A lot of people who travel the USA haven't seen much of their own state.  A lot of people who travel their own state haven't seen many of the neighborhoods in their own city. 

The world is really big.  Some of the places in it are much cheaper than traveling around the US when you're staying out for longer than a few weeks.  And the whole point of traveling is to see something new and different at least to me.  California is pretty different from Alabama or North Dakota, but they're quite similar when you compare them with Nicaragua or India. 

[Peony]

Following

[Metric Mouse]

Umm... but you'd still be in Peru.

Yes, and it would be wonderful. 

How much does it cost to charter a Mercedes somewhere interesting? And at $22 a night, that's over $600 a month, just for lodging. Just sayin'....

You can take the bus just about anywhere there's a road in Peru or in most countries.  Some of those buses are way way nicer than Greyhound for a fraction of the price. 

$22 is the air conditioned hotel room in a skyscraper price.  You can go way cheaper if you practice even the least amount of Mustachianism.  You can live on nearly nothing if you enjoy camping out by the lake and relaxing. 

The US is a great country to see.  It can be cheap if you're already set up here and don't move around a whole lot, but it's quite expensive from the outside looking in when you compare apples to apples.  I get that some people want to stick to developed countries where things are clean and orderly.  I get that you can save a lot of money by sticking close to home and camping out.  I just don't think it's where this thread was headed, though. 

On some level I'm jealous of the people who are happy near home.  That 5000 mile plane ticket is expensive.  Some of us unfortunately have the itch to see those dirty, smelly, chaotic, wonderful places a long ways from wherever the lottery of birth lottery plopped us down. 
 

Hey, at least it's not Ohio...

Or Detroit :)

No one was saying you can't travel abroad for cheap. The argument was made that traveling domestically can be cheap as well. I'm sure Peru is wonderful (never been, but dated a very nice young women from there. Good Allah could she cook). 

And one could probably BUY in Detroit for the similar price of renting in Peru. :D

[Panly]

This showed up as one of the rockstarfinance article's today...thought it may be of interest to this thread...

http://frugalvagabond.com/2016/07/07/retire-abroad-july-2016-1200/

Thanks Andy and others who have shared the series in this thread.  It's humbling and gratifying that people enjoy it.  Obviously, my fiancée and I are pro-retirement abroad, but not because we don't love the US. We just happen to love immersing ourselves in other places and cultures, too. One of the big advantages of FIRE is that you can slow your travel way, way down, and get much closer to the prices paid by locals by booking housing for longer durations.

I write the series linked above for our own gratification as much as anyone else's. Putting into context where we could go tomorrow if necessary makes our footing on the path to FI feel much more secure, and gives us an inkling of the real freedom that awaits us ahead.

Your USA retirement/rental income might be heavily taxed in some of those countries you mention, if you would decide to relocate there.
 Seems there is no provision for probably the biggest cost item in your budgets : local taxes on your income.


Or did I miss that topic?


 

[dougules]

The argument was made that traveling domestically can be cheap as well.

You can make the US fairly cheap if you go full on Mustachian, but that same level of Mustachianism will take you much further in so many other parts of the world.  When you compare apples to apples, the US is way more expensive than other places.

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/rankings_by_country.jsp

And one could probably BUY in Detroit for the similar price of renting in Peru. :D

Yes, but I'd rather be in Peru than some third-world country ;)

[Metric Mouse]

And one could probably BUY in Detroit for the similar price of renting in Peru. :D

Yes, but I'd rather be in Peru than some third-world country ;)

[iamlindoro]

Your USA retirement/rental income might be heavily taxed in some of those countries you mention, if you would decide to relocate there.
 Seems there is no provision for probably the biggest cost item in your budgets : local taxes on your income.


Or did I miss that topic?

Speaking for ourselves, we'll be slow traveling, so we don't anticipate remaining anyplace long enough to be subject to local taxation.  Most likely six months at a time where possible.  I always try to be very clear that the budgets cover a basic basket of necessities that roughly represent the lean FIRE budgets reported by a variety of sources, but not items such as medical emergencies, travel home, or taxation.  If it helps to think of the articles as "Retire Abroad on $x per month (after tax)," that works too.

[dougules]

I've been to over 80 countries and there are some that are quite liveable, at least for awhile:
* Ecuador - loved Quito (stayed for 7 months).  Heard good things about Cuenca
* Colombia - like the cities down the Andes.  Great festivals.
* Georgia - lovely country.  They recently changed the visa (used to be able to stay 360 of 365 days).  Relatively cheap flights to Europe.
* Thailand - stayed in Chang Mai for a month.  It's hot but there were good comforts
* Sri Lanka - Hill country was nice.  Food was great
* Philippines - lots of great beaches, but getting busy.

I missed this post.  I'm really glad to here some love for Quito.  There's a lot of hate for Quito around the internet.  We'll probably go down next year to scope it out, possibly for post-FIRE long-term potential.  I liked Lima, and I'm a bit skeptical of some of the claims that Quito is way worse than other big cities in Latin America. 

[MgoSam]

I've been to over 80 countries and there are some that are quite liveable, at least for awhile:
* Ecuador - loved Quito (stayed for 7 months).  Heard good things about Cuenca
* Colombia - like the cities down the Andes.  Great festivals.
* Georgia - lovely country.  They recently changed the visa (used to be able to stay 360 of 365 days).  Relatively cheap flights to Europe.
* Thailand - stayed in Chang Mai for a month.  It's hot but there were good comforts
* Sri Lanka - Hill country was nice.  Food was great
* Philippines - lots of great beaches, but getting busy.

I missed this post.  I'm really glad to here some love for Quito.  There's a lot of hate for Quito around the internet.  We'll probably go down next year to scope it out, possibly for post-FIRE long-term potential.  I liked Lima, and I'm a bit skeptical of some of the claims that Quito is way worse than other big cities in Latin America.

Glad to hear that great experiences were had in Quito. My current post-FIRE plans have me going down there to avoid a Minnesotan winter and to properly learn Spanish. I know my thinking is somewhat ambitious but after learning Spanish, I would like to move to India to learn Hindi (can understand it and speak a little, would be nice to become fluent), and then go from there.

[Rubic]

The USA is huge though.  Most who travel abroad have never actually seen much of the USA.

A lot of people who travel the USA haven't seen much of their own state.  A lot of people who travel their own state haven't seen many of the neighborhoods in their own city. 

The world is really big.  Some of the places in it are much cheaper than traveling around the US when you're staying out for longer than a few weeks.  And the whole point of traveling is to see something new and different at least to me.  California is pretty different from Alabama or North Dakota, but they're quite similar when you compare them with Nicaragua or India.

This is very true.  Even though I've rode my bicycle in most of the United States, I'm often surprised when discovering a small rural town in my home state or a new neighborhood in my city.

Still, it's not the same as riding through a country where English isn't spoken and the adventures are often more interesting.

[JoJo]

Glad to hear that great experiences were had in Quito. My current post-FIRE plans have me going down there to avoid a Minnesotan winter and to properly learn Spanish. I know my thinking is somewhat ambitious but after learning Spanish, I would like to move to India to learn Hindi (can understand it and speak a little, would be nice to become fluent), and then go from there.

Ecuador is a great place to learn Spanish.  Private lessons can still be had for $7-10 ($5 when I was there 12 years ago) - shop around and maybe try a couple schools for a week at a time.   Quito is good if you don't like heat & bugs.  Since it's such a small country, it's great for 1-5 day trips to amazon rainforest, cloud forest, hot springs, coast, colonial cities, Andes lakes.  There are some great festivals that cost just a few dollars for a bus ride. 

[arebelspy]

[MOD NOTE: Hyperbole (on either side) doesn't help or enlighten anyone.

Please try to debate with facts and reasoning, and/or just present the good side of yours, if you can't resist insulting the other options if you do address it.]

[rodrigorodrigues535]

Question for those in Portugal, how are the people? My company's salesman is from India and lived in Spain for many years while working, he says that he really didn't like Portugal because they were very rude to him and racist. I know that all regions have all types of people, but I remember mentioning that a friend of mine is going to Portugal and he instantly begged me to stop him/her, when I told him that my friend is white, he relaxed and smiled and said, "They'll have a good time, it's nice and cheap there with great seafood."

Don't really understand, Spain and Portugal are different countries! I can related his comment to Spain but not Portugal.


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[MgoSam]

Question for those in Portugal, how are the people? My company's salesman is from India and lived in Spain for many years while working, he says that he really didn't like Portugal because they were very rude to him and racist. I know that all regions have all types of people, but I remember mentioning that a friend of mine is going to Portugal and he instantly begged me to stop him/her, when I told him that my friend is white, he relaxed and smiled and said, "They'll have a good time, it's nice and cheap there with great seafood."

Don't really understand, Spain and Portugal are different countries! I can related his comment to Spain but not Portugal.


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I meant that while he was living in Spain he went to Portugal quite often and felt like he was treated very badly by the Portuguese, while his companions (who were Spaniards) were treated quite well. I don't know how well his experience meshes with other people's.

[aspiringnomad]

Question for those in Portugal, how are the people? My company's salesman is from India and lived in Spain for many years while working, he says that he really didn't like Portugal because they were very rude to him and racist. I know that all regions have all types of people, but I remember mentioning that a friend of mine is going to Portugal and he instantly begged me to stop him/her, when I told him that my friend is white, he relaxed and smiled and said, "They'll have a good time, it's nice and cheap there with great seafood."

Don't really understand, Spain and Portugal are different countries! I can related his comment to Spain but not Portugal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I meant that while he was living in Spain he went to Portugal quite often and felt like he was treated very badly by the Portuguese, while his companions (who were Spaniards) were treated quite well. I don't know how well his experience meshes with other people's.

I'm not Indian but traveled in Portugal with a friend from the subcontinent and he never had similar issues. In fact, if we're making sweeping generalizations (why not?!) in my experience, Spaniards are among the least inclusive people I've met, certainly among Spanish-speaking countries around the world, but also among European countries. Portuguese, by contrast, were among the warmest and most welcoming. I lived in Spain for a while and found the food delicious and the women beautiful, but that was my experience concerning friendliness/openness. Obviously, YMMV.

[IlliniPatT]

following

[electriceagle]

Choose any two of the three options! No Latin American country is safe by US standards. They all have violent crime/murder rates about like Detroit, which Americans hardly consider a safe city. Ditto for most SE Asian countries, except Singapore or Hong Kong. Cheap, fun, and rather dangerous.
And yes, I have lived and worked and vacationed in Latin America and in Asia.

Panama and Nicaragua are both pretty darn safe (the former more than the latter).

El Salvador and (mainland) Honduras have serious crime problems.

Not everything is the same.

[dougules]

Choose any two of the three options! No Latin American country is safe by US standards. They all have violent crime/murder rates about like Detroit, which Americans hardly consider a safe city. Ditto for most SE Asian countries, except Singapore or Hong Kong. Cheap, fun, and rather dangerous.
And yes, I have lived and worked and vacationed in Latin America and in Asia.

Panama and Nicaragua are both pretty darn safe (the former more than the latter).

El Salvador and (mainland) Honduras have serious crime problems.

Not everything is the same.

A couple ladies left their purses in the van at a pit stop one time in Panama.  That would never happen in a lot of places including a lot of the US.