Being wealthy is...?

[ch12]

You don't have to be a billionaire to fly in a private jet. I've wanted to be able to afford traveling in JetSuite jets. It'd cost me ~$19,000 each way to get from my home to my parents' home in Sarasota. Though $38,000 is very steep for a getaway, it diminishes with additional people added to the flight. If I take the 7 person jet (which is interestingly cheaper than the 4 person jet), then it goes to $5,428.57 for a roundtrip person. To fly from Madison to Sarasota in first class on a commercial flight costs me $1,964.

I want to be clear that private jets ARE huge luxuries. Traveling first class is luxurious. I dream about being a dandelion by using JetSuite's SuiteDeals. It's still beyond my pocket, even though they are 7-person flights for $536.43 (when they have to move an empty jet between 2 cities, so you've got no choice in departure or arrival cities). Accommodations and food will cost you more than the flight, though, and it may even be cheaper than taking a bus.

I think Warren's level of wealth lets him spend $38000 without thinking about it.  And his jet is probably on call whenever he wants it to go wherever he wants.  I think he uses Netjets (Berkshire Hathaway owns it) but I'm not sure if he also owns his own private jet. 

Do you really want to have enough wealth to spend $5500 to $38000 to fly on a private jet vs. much less for first class?  $38000/yr spending equals an extra million in savings at 4% SWR (probably more after taxes are considered).  It seems like a lot of extra work to get a small marginal increase in comfort or style.  Not criticizing, just curious.  Thanks for the tip on the SuiteDeals.  That would be pretty cool to take a private jet just once for $500 or so since we can't fly that cheap (and there are five of us in the family).

I like private jets a lot because of the reduction in hassle. There is no way that I would stay in a job long enough to accumulate an extra $1 million just so I could avoid the TSA. That money could be put in more productive places. Warren' jet is named The Indefensible. If I ever become obscenely wealthy, I will completely spring for a membership in one of the private jet companies.

[RootofGood]

I like private jets a lot because of the reduction in hassle. There is no way that I would stay in a job long enough to accumulate an extra $1 million just so I could avoid the TSA. That money could be put in more productive places. Warren' jet is named The Indefensible. If I ever become obscenely wealthy, I will completely spring for a membership in one of the private jet companies.

I'd love the reduction in hassle too, but I figure waiting in line for an hour or two and sitting at the gate for another hour or two occasionally means paying a tiny fraction of the cost of fractional private jet usage. 

[ch12]

I like private jets a lot because of the reduction in hassle. There is no way that I would stay in a job long enough to accumulate an extra $1 million just so I could avoid the TSA. That money could be put in more productive places. Warren's jet is named The Indefensible. If I ever become obscenely wealthy, I will completely spring for a membership in one of the private jet companies.

I'd love the reduction in hassle too, but I figure waiting in line for an hour or two and sitting at the gate for another hour or two occasionally means paying a tiny fraction of the cost of fractional private jet usage.

The difference between coach and private jet can be huge. Paying $300 for a coach plane ticket vs. $18,000 will save you $17,700 for a maximum of four additional hours of your time. It works out to $4,425/hour - and it's can be double that if the wasted time is only 2 hours. Like I said, I'd have to be obscenely wealthy to do it. I promise that I'd never delay FI just to use private jets.

[ivyhedge]

...Like I said, I'd have to be obscenely wealthy to do it. I promise that I'd never delay FI just to use private jets.

And we're going to hold you to that promise...

[ch12]

...Like I said, I'd have to be obscenely wealthy to do it. I promise that I'd never delay FI just to use private jets.

And we're going to hold you to that promise...

Considering that my FIRE number is $300,000, I think it's a safe bet.

[Melody]

A friend and i discussed this yesterday... Hos response was "not having to stress if i can pay my bills while still being able to go out with friends".. Through sensible choices this guy is wealthy on minimum wage. I think wealth = fi. Currently i have heaps of money, but my freedom is limited by job so it's not true wealth.a simple but comfortable standard of fi would be my defintion wealth.

[manonfire1007]

Pardon the ignorance. What is a fire number?

[mikefixac]

Being wealthy is staring off into space while you put gas in your car.

Especially when it costs less than $5 to fill up my scooter.

FIRE--Financial Indepedence/Retire Early
What MMM is all about. The God of Personal Finance.

[libertarian4321]

You're welcome EV. Your comment above, and this exchange:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/50-60-year-retirement-timeframes-anyone-have-the-numbers/msg326309/#msg326309
led me over to your blog today which I hadn't read yet. I'm on the SWR post. Good stuff.

On the link above, I was thinking the same thing [a mess of stuff] from post #36 but it was summarized better in post #43. Much less ...uh... stuff.

Luck12 - 6'10" was likely a bit much and I'm not really sure why I even put it in there. 6'8" maybe? Whatever. Undeniably though he is a big, outspoken man and this story had me laughing.

More like 6'5" to 6'6".  Barkley was notoriously short for a power forward.

[Exflyboy]

Our "new" to us car. Well I was going to get it into one of those lifetime alignement deals.

Well I forgot and the half worn tires that came with the car (ultra low profile super spendy 18" wheels), have now worn out on the inside edge..

Do I care?.. yes because its a waste and I feel as though I should have done better with money (an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure).

Do I care?.. No because the $350 (tires plus $150 for lifetime alignment) it will cost me to fix is meaningless in the grand scheme of things...:)

Frank

[arebelspy]

Pardon the ignorance. What is a fire number?

It's the amount you need in your portfolio to retire early and have it cover your expenses.

[Nords]

I like this thread!

Being wealthy is not a license to be wasteful.  I still have trouble figuring out where that line is drawn, but it just kills me to have to spend more time to recover from having wasted something earlier.  The worst is when I get rid of a spare part that I've been hoarding for a decade ("But I might need it someday!") and then need that exact part a month later.  Yeah, I can drive to Home Depot and buy it (again!) for a buck, but it used to be right here and now I've wasted all this time getting back to the same point.

I thought Buffett sold the Berkshire jet in exchange for an unlimited NetJets membership, but I might be behind the latest status.  In any case, being wealthy means being able to fly on a private jet to go see someone-- but being filthy rich means that everyone else gets on their private jets to come see you.

Being wealthy is picking up nothing smaller than a nickel from the public restroom floor. Pennies can stay where they are.
What does being wealthy mean for you?

Our island offers a free recycling "Tour de Trash" that shows off Oahu's waste-processing operations.  It attracts retired nuclear engineers by the busload.

One of the tour stops was our neighborhood sewage-processing facility.  We learned how it all works and then walked around the site to see the various pieces of equipment.  One area consists of large screens (of various mesh sizes) in the flowpath that keep most of the debris in the raw sewage from jamming the pumps.  Each screen filters out progressively smaller objects, diverts them down a ramp, and rinses them off in a holding bin.  The bin is switched out every few days and the contents are dumped on a large concrete pad for drying, sorting, & recycling. 

As we walked about, one of the concrete pads was filled with objects that were an inch in size or smaller.  The pile was at least six feet wide, ten feet long, and six inches deep.  It had a lot of gravel and mulch and small pieces of plastic, but it was also filled with coins. 

My spouse is a hardcore coin retriever, and she'll immediately pull any penny off any public restroom floor.  When she saw this pile of sewage-marinated "free money", I thought she was going to go crazier than a four-year-old in a candy store.  Why, there might be $30 just sitting in the pile!  The tour guide shook his head sadly and said "I wouldn't touch any of that."  She eventually calmed down long enough for me to pull her away to the next exhibit...

[Jazzpolice]

Being wealthy is…affording quality organic produce from farmer's markets or the high end grocery stores without calculating the math constantly (i.e. saw apricots today at $4.59/lb but had bought the nonorganic version a week ago for 0.49/lb). 

[monkeymind]

Being wealthy is...   

...thankfully, not necessary. But I wouldn't turn it down if it fell in my lap.

[RootofGood]

Our island offers a free recycling "Tour de Trash" that shows off Oahu's waste-processing operations.  It attracts retired nuclear engineers by the busload.

I bet it would attract retired civil engineers by the busload, too!  I was invited to attend out city's Neighborhood University which also includes cool tours like waste water treatment plant, recycling and solid waste center, etc.   Sounds like good clean fun! 

My spouse is a hardcore coin retriever, and she'll immediately pull any penny off any public restroom floor.  When she saw this pile of sewage-marinated "free money", I thought she was going to go crazier than a four-year-old in a candy store.  Why, there might be $30 just sitting in the pile!  The tour guide shook his head sadly and said "I wouldn't touch any of that."  She eventually calmed down long enough for me to pull her away to the next exhibit...

Your spouse is still picking up restroom pennies = not wealthy?  ;)

Next time she goes to the sewage treatment facility, she'll have to bring latex gloves, wader boots, and a jar full of bleach for disinfecting.  And make sure you film it.  Extreme Cheapskates season 3 is doing casting calls I hear...

[Nords]

Our island offers a free recycling "Tour de Trash" that shows off Oahu's waste-processing operations.  It attracts retired nuclear engineers by the busload.

I bet it would attract retired civil engineers by the busload, too!  I was invited to attend out city's Neighborhood University which also includes cool tours like waste water treatment plant, recycling and solid waste center, etc.   Sounds like good clean fun! 

It breeds new civil engineers, too!  One of the reasons our daughter went for that degree was all of the Tours de Trash that I dragged her on.  She knows that she can leave the Navy any time and have a lifetime career in sewage, potholes, or light rail.

My spouse is a hardcore coin retriever, and she'll immediately pull any penny off any public restroom floor.  When she saw this pile of sewage-marinated "free money", I thought she was going to go crazier than a four-year-old in a candy store.  Why, there might be $30 just sitting in the pile!  The tour guide shook his head sadly and said "I wouldn't touch any of that."  She eventually calmed down long enough for me to pull her away to the next exhibit...

Your spouse is still picking up restroom pennies = not wealthy?  ;)

Next time she goes to the sewage treatment facility, she'll have to bring latex gloves, wader boots, and a jar full of bleach for disinfecting.  And make sure you film it.  Extreme Cheapskates season 3 is doing casting calls I hear...

The frugal habits that get you to FI are hard to abandon.  We'd probably entertain a squad of mental health professionals.  At least we've stopped pulling over to the side of the road to retrieve the HI-5 beverage bottles & cans that can be redeemed for a nickel.

She did a lot of FOD walkdowns of Navy airfield runways during one tour, so now she can spot a coin at 10 paces.  She practices several hours per week during her evening walks and regularly harvests the neighborhood routes.  It's an amazing little jolt of endorphins but that pile of sewage-screened coins, just gleaming in the tropical sunshine, almost overdosed her.

I should've mentioned this story during the Yahoo Finance interview.  I'm sure the commenters would have had plenty to say about it!

[Mister Fancypants]

Being Wealthy is being surrounded by family and friends....

All the money in the world can't bring back a loved one who for one last conversation, hug or "I love you".

Ask Steve Jobs' or Michael Jackson's kids how much they care about all the money they inherited?

[C. K.]

Being wealthy is...

... an opportunity to improve the lives of other people.
... an often misunderstood concept.
... more of a possibility than some think.
... not automatically a symbol of greed and selfishness. 
... potentially liberating (depending on how it's used).

I always feel really wealthy when I have a whole drawer full of clean underwear.

If I could high-five you through the internet...

[Malaysia41]

I stopped wearing underwear.

Well, we know what Thoreau feels being wealthy is: "A man is rich in proportion to the number of things which he can afford to let alone."

In terms of personal affects, I've gone without...wallet (money clip), keys, shoes that tie, etc.  ... But I never considered freeing myself of the shackles of underwear.  ;^)

My husband's wallet is a rubber band. Sometimes paired w a ziplock bag when he's on his bike.

[Dr. Doom]

Actually about 3 months ago a scientific study came out backing up the 5-second rule.  Google it and you'll find a bunch of links, here's one example:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2014/03/14/amazingly-science-backs-5-second-rule-for-dropped-food/

The Mythbusters represent my sole source of scientific intake and they busted it. 

I eat dropped food different reasons:  It's still tasty.  Plus the extra bacteria keeps my immune system strong.  Probably not bathroom-floor dropped food, though.  Gawd!

[C. K.]

I stopped wearing underwear. I feel wealthy

How much were you spending on underwear?!

Quark must be the alias for Nicolas Cage. Since they stopped the Superman movie, he's saved a bundle on adult Underoos.

At least we've stopped pulling over to the side of the road to retrieve the HI-5 beverage bottles & cans that can be redeemed for a nickel.

I've read of people buying small houses and making a living doing just that - picking up discarded bottles and cans.

In any case, being wealthy means being able to fly on a private jet to go see someone-- but being filthy rich means that everyone else gets on their private jets to come see you.

[Quark]

I always feel really wealthy when I have a whole drawer full of clean underwear.

I stopped wearing underwear. I feel wealthy and free that I do not have to do that extra load of laundry.

Just do us a favor and wear pants.

That would defeat the purpose since I would have to wash the pants more often?

I'm a woman who wears skirts and dresses every day, as it is the only way to deal with hot Texas weather. No underwear =

-no worries when I pack a suitcase about running out
-no worries when I run out of underwear because all the other ones are dirty
-no extra load of laundry every 2 weeks, saves space in the laundry hamper
-saving ~5-10 bucks a pair when they wear out or my weight changes
-more easily endure hot weather
-no more muffin top or panty lines under clothes!!!!!
-get dressed faster

I could go on and on about how great it is.

[Snow White]

Wealthy to me means having enough money to know I never need to work again  (the definition of FIRE if you think about it). I early retired a few months ago and am still stunned by the abundance of time I have and regret that I didn't do this much earlier.  I actually liked my job and struggled with the decision to retire but now I wake up grateful that I am past working for a living. Sounds like wealth to me.

By the way, I pick up ALL money in any place or condition.  The money the cashier hands you is probably just as "dirty" as money picked up off the bathroom floor.  I am an RN and it takes an awful lot to gross me out. Pick up the money and walk over to the sink as wash it off!

[EscapeVelocity2020]

... I early retired a few months ago and am still stunned by the abundance of time I have and regret that I didn't do this much earlier.  I actually liked my job and struggled with the decision to retire but now I wake up grateful that I am past working for a living. Sounds like wealth to me.

Hi SW, I also think my time is worth more than what my employer pays per hr :)  Just wondering, does your household still have an income or you 'full Mustache' (no money worries)?

[Snow White]

Hi SW, I also think my time is worth more than what my employer pays per hr :)  Just wondering, does your household still have an income or you 'full Mustache' (no money worries)?
[/quote]

We are pretty much "full mustache" and both Hubby & I are now retired. He receives a pension and took early SS. I will be eligible for a pension when I hit traditional retirement age and SS too (I just turned 60). We've both been reasonably high earners and are naturally frugal savers. I joke that we were Mustashian before we knew what it was.  My challenge with making the decision to retire was that I had worked my whole life and the concept of not working was actually hard to wrap my brain around.  Now I feel like a complete dummy for being so worried.  Make the leap as soon as you financially can. :)

[arebelspy]

It isn't necessary, but if she enjoys it for a year or two, and makes her feel like she is paying for 'extra', then we'll go 'extra'.  The Prada version of this, which I fear, is that she makes 24k/yr and thinks that affords a vacation in Hawaii....

Doesn't it?

I mean, holy shit, how expensive are your Hawaii vacations?  Over 24k?

I mean, if you already have "enough" without her working, and the whole point of her working is for some "extras," wouldn't a 24k/yr job easily cover a Hawaii vacation or two?

[Mr. Frugalwoods]

Being wealthy is not living with the fear that an unexpected expense could send you into a downward financial spiral.

For so many people living on the edge; 1 car repair, 1 broken arm, 1 exploding water heater... sends them into a spiral that could take years to get out of.

[Daisy]

I'm a woman who wears skirts and dresses every day, as it is the only way to deal with hot Texas weather. No underwear =

I didn't realize Sharon Stone had joined the forums! ;-)

As far as the original topic of wealth...for me it's having a healthy body, mind, and spirit. A certain amount of money and free time is needed to achieve this. Wealth is also knowing that you have touched at least one person's life in a positive way.

[RetiredAt63]

Environmental Science people too - visits to sewage lagoons and tertiary treatments and waste reclamation sites are all high points of conferences.

Our island offers a free recycling "Tour de Trash" that shows off Oahu's waste-processing operations.  It attracts retired nuclear engineers by the busload.

I bet it would attract retired civil engineers by the busload, too!  I was invited to attend out city's Neighborhood University which also includes cool tours like waste water treatment plant, recycling and solid waste center, etc.   Sounds like good clean fun! 

It breeds new civil engineers, too!  One of the reasons our daughter went for that degree was all of the Tours de Trash that I dragged her on.  She knows that she can leave the Navy any time and have a lifetime career in sewage, potholes, or light rail.

[iris lily]

Being wealthy is making your decisions as if money is of no concern.

(That is to say, I would choose how and when I did my work. I would still make decisions that felt practical rather than ostentatious and wasteful.)

That is a really good definition.

[Dr. Doom]

If you are able to afford your own floating castle, you are wealthy.

Back to reality:  I define wealth as simply relating to your net worth -- and for me, you've got to be in the .1% to be ridiculously wealthy rather than merely rich.  You can buy sports teams and island nations.  Example: At 62B, Warren Buffet is wealthy.  At 7M, Obama is merely rich.

This is different from questions like "What makes you happy?" or "Do you want to be wealthy?"  Hell no.  I'm extremely content to be FI -- I'm able to buy everything that I personally want. 

Except, perhaps, that castle...

[Davids]

Wealthy is FI + having a great set of friends, family, colleagues and others you can enjoy life with.

[RapmasterD]

A label.

An abstract term.

A highly subjective term.

[apfroggy0408]

being content.

[GuitarStv]

. . . what enabled me to have the free time to clean up the streets of Gotham each night.

[Exflyboy]

I am working on new terminology.. Its called "Financial irrelevance (FIr)"

This is when yes you are FI.. but FIr is when you will remain at FI no matter what the stock market (or any other investment) does..

I like to think the Great depression was an annomoly.. So I assume the worst that will happen is a 50% market correction.. If everything I own was cut in half would I still be at FI.

...:)

Frank

[mc6]

The freedom to tell The Man, "Fuck you." 

[MarcherLady]

... being able to make decisions with cost not being the primary deciding factor.

To clarify, I'm not talking about buying a private jet, I mean being able to choose the healthiest/greenest/ most ethical options every time, rather than weighing up which causes/abuses are more important to you than others, because you can't afford all the good options.

[C. K.]

. . . what enabled me to have the free time to clean up the streets of Gotham each night.

+1 for the Batman reference.

[mikefixac]

From Nords: Being wealthy is not a license to be wasteful.  I still have trouble figuring out where that line is drawn, but it just kills me to have to spend more time to recover from having wasted something earlier.  The worst is when I get rid of a spare part that I've been hoarding for a decade ("But I might need it someday!") and then need that exact part a month later.  Yeah, I can drive to Home Depot and buy it (again!) for a buck, but it used to be right here and now I've wasted all this time getting back to the same point.

This actually happens to me quite often. A few weeks ago I got rid of appliance parts I've had for 15-20 years. Did a job a few days ago, and guess what part I needed? Even so, I'd rather be rid of most of the stuff, even if every now and then I have to repurchase.