Author Topic: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?  (Read 25821 times)

shotgunwilly

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #50 on: June 06, 2014, 07:55:59 PM »
Hang out with graduate students, they are savvy about having fun at little cost. Or hang out with the outdoorsy crowd. Although they can have some serious gear addictions, they don't purposely spend money on highly consumerist activities and "stuff."

Funny you say this, because i am the outdoors type and the majority of my friends are as well. Fishing and hunting is my passion, and that's one area I spend my money. Gear and gas to go.


Thanks for all of the responses everyone. There are a lot of great points to ponder!
« Last Edit: June 06, 2014, 08:03:56 PM by shotgunwilly »

StarryC

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #51 on: June 06, 2014, 08:15:46 PM »

I agree. You (starry) are implying all those things from one word someone else wrote. I never would've reached those conclusions.

That's fine, no one has to change anything they do because of what I say.  I'm not offended by someone on the internet calling women "females."   I guess what I'm trying to do is the same thing people sometimes do for me.  "Hey, there is spinach in your teeth."  Of course, if you want it there, it doesn't offend me.  But, I just thought you might want to know!

I don't think that it's fair to paint all 20-something women as superficial people who need to be impressed by a display of wealth.

I hope that wasn't directed at me, I didn't mean that at all! I am basically agreeing with you, ch12.

Cheddar Stacker

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #52 on: June 06, 2014, 08:48:19 PM »
Understood. Thank you for pointing out the spinach then. I truly never would have thought that word could be offensive in the context of this discussion, but now I know to avoid using it.

ch12

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #53 on: June 06, 2014, 08:51:41 PM »


I don't think that it's fair to paint all 20-something women as superficial people who need to be impressed by a display of wealth.

I hope that wasn't directed at me, I didn't mean that at all! I am basically agreeing with you, ch12.

It wasn't directed at you, Starry. I was talking about the OP.

shotgunwilly

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #54 on: June 06, 2014, 09:17:18 PM »
Understood. Thank you for pointing out the spinach then. I truly never would have thought that word could be offensive in the context of this discussion, but now I know to avoid using it.

Same here. I still find it hard to see why some people would find offense in "females" when used in the context of this thread. (Describing multiples of the opposite gender). Especially when I spoke of "males" and "females."


Anatidae V

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #55 on: June 06, 2014, 09:26:56 PM »
Quote from: shotgunwilly
"stylish" clothes (I think style is bullshit),

One thing to search your soul about- are you allowing women the same leeway you give yourself?  Men often say they don't want to spend money on expensive clothes or cars or whatever to impress women.  They want frugal, practical women, not gold diggers!  Down to Earth Women. . .  so long as those women LOOK like they have a personal trainer, go to the salon every week for waxings, get a $100 haircut ever 6 weeks, spend an 30 minutes a day on makeup, and respond to his texts within 10 minutes. 

But, it might be that the values you are looking for are more commonly found in the ladies who go to bed early for work, make meals at their house, pack lunches, and don't spend much on their looks.  Their hair might not be as bouncy, because the bike helmet crushed it.  They might be wearing comfortable jeans because they think the sexiest, trendiest jeans just aren't worth the $200.  They might feel that high heels are expensive and harmful and impractical.  She might avoid the bars and clubs because she knows she won't be the prettiest, most done up one there, and so those places make her feel bad or don't attract what she's looking for. 

My friend's brother was whining about how all the women he meets just want to hookup for sex (not interested in being a girlfriend) or otherwise aren't girlfriend "material", and the women all are only attracted to the guys who treat them badly and show off. He tested this theory by starting to be a bit meaner, and lo and behold started to pick up more women. He's the same age range as you. She thought this sounded true, since this was her experience...

Until I started picking the holes in the logic. His sample size was way too small. He was picking up women in bars, pubs, and nightclubs. He was attracted to the showiest women there, because they stood out! So if he looks around a bit more, tried to spot the women having a quiet drink with her friend or covering more than 10% of her body, and meets women in other activities, there's a higher chance of them being interested in a relationship and them being " girlfriend material".

And, don't we have a singles section in this forum?

/edit: while I wrote this others posted the same thing, so more +1s to them.

scrubbyfish

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #56 on: June 06, 2014, 10:08:35 PM »
Men often say they don't want to spend money on expensive clothes or cars or whatever to impress women.  They want frugal, practical women, not gold diggers!  Down to Earth Women. . .  so long as those women LOOK like they have a personal trainer, go to the salon every week for waxings, get a $100 haircut ever 6 weeks, spend an 30 minutes a day on makeup, and respond to his texts within 10 minutes.
   

True. My last BF :(

scrubbyfish

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #57 on: June 06, 2014, 10:32:42 PM »
My thoughts on the whole thread so far, as a newly dating person (female, 42):

1. Ha! I just realized I described myself as female, which has been a contentious issue in the thread. Oh well. I was going to speak to this anyway. I veer from any guy who uses the words "lady" or "ladies" anywhere, or "my girl" when referring to girlfriend/female partner. Reactive as I am to these, I clearly have no problem with "female", as I've used it twice already here. Eek!

2. I read an article today about online dating that said women who refer to themselves as "girls" are rated by guys as more attractive, but that guys who refer to women as "girls" are rated as less attractive. And so on. I was fascinated.

3. Online dating and Mustachianism - Tricky. POF and Craigslist are free, but host a lot of folks looking for casual sex, but some people (including one of my closest friends) do find love through these. OKC is also free, but (at least in Vancouver, BC) hosts a good number of people looking for poly, threesomes, etc. Match.com is said to be better for people looking for a more conventional relationship, but it costs money even to check a message. I'm loath to spend $38 for one month, or more for a multi-month package, especially since the two usernames Match has shared with me so far are both located far, far away. For the folks here encouraging online dating, what are your thoughts, please? At this point, I'm feeling I might be best off wearing a shirt that proclaims, "I'm single! Ask me out!"

4. I am definitely into Mustachianism, and yet...  Of the two guys I have been closest with (one friend, one BF) over the last few years, one regularly offered me food out of the garbage and the other won't spend so much as $2 on a tea out because he can drink it cheaper at home. (These are merely tip-of-the-iceberg examples. I could give others much worse.) I dream of a Mustachian partner, but as a result of these experiences I currently feel quite allergic to guys who emit an overly frugal vibe. I would be wary of such, not because I want an overly spendy partner, but because I don't ever want a boyfriend to offer me food from a garbage can again. (Unless I'm in an extreme circumstance such as war, in which case I'm confident I would view this as lovely, generous, thoughtful, and self-sacrificing, and thus feel very grateful.)

5. At the same time, I have no need or expectation for a fellow to spend a bunch of money on me, a person he doesn't know one iota. Why should he invest in me? I propose dates that cost neither of us any money, and allow us to get to know each other. If things work out, I will be delighted if he treats me to something lovely now and then, and I will enjoy doing likewise.

T-Rex

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #58 on: June 06, 2014, 11:13:37 PM »
So you want a low maintenance girlfriend... There are women that are responsible with money and not high maintenance. It might not be obvious if you are in the wrong place.

You wouldn't start looking for a serious and practical person in the natural habitat of party animals, right? At bars and clubs, you will only meet the kind of girls that hang out at bars and clubs! Save yourself the pain of buying the car and the clothes only to attract someone incompatible with you. Your future girlfriend is not spending most of her weekends paying cover charges to drink marked up cocktails and cab it home.

If you want to find someone that shares your values, try hanging out at places where your ideal partner would actually be. Volunteering, your church, a library, some venue for your favorite hobby/activity, DIY classes, whatever applies. If she doesn't appreciate your company when you don't function as an ATM, hold out for someone who will.

homeymomma

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #59 on: June 07, 2014, 05:53:08 AM »
Yikes! Didn't mean to start a contentious conversation, and didn't mean to imply you were a player or a jerk or an objectifier of women. The word female can be used very innocently in many ways. I reacted to it because it sounded like you were using it like many people who objectify women do, as a plural noun, "the females," as if women deserve no further respect than recognition of their sex, as sex objects for men. Clearly you didn't mean it that way, so I'm sorry I brought it up.

I do still think it's a fair point that if you didn't know that it has that connotation to many women, it's a good thing to keep in mind in conversation with real people (it's always hard to convey tone/intent on the web... So say what you like but there will be people like me who misconstrue, no matter what).

Good luck finding your mustachian partner! I'm sure she's out there :) I agree with others saying to do fun activities that have meaning for you, rather than activities focused only on meeting a date.

ch12

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #60 on: June 07, 2014, 06:02:00 AM »

4. I am definitely into Mustachianism, and yet...  Of the two guys I have been closest with (one friend, one BF) over the last few years, one regularly offered me food out of the garbage and the other won't spend so much as $2 on a tea out because he can drink it cheaper at home. (These are merely tip-of-the-iceberg examples. I could give others much worse.) I dream of a Mustachian partner, but as a result of these experiences I currently feel quite allergic to guys who emit an overly frugal vibe. I would be wary of such, not because I want an overly spendy partner, but because I don't ever want a boyfriend to offer me food from a garbage can again. (Unless I'm in an extreme circumstance such as war, in which case I'm confident I would view this as lovely, generous, thoughtful, and self-sacrificing, and thus feel very grateful.)

5. At the same time, I have no need or expectation for a fellow to spend a bunch of money on me, a person he doesn't know one iota. Why should he invest in me? I propose dates that cost neither of us any money, and allow us to get to know each other. If things work out, I will be delighted if he treats me to something lovely now and then, and I will enjoy doing likewise.

Offering people food out of the garbage is generally not ok (except in times of war/famine) - that this has even come up for you makes me worried that I shouldn't be looking in the pool of self-proclaimed "frugal" guys.

I guess the solution to all this is to find men/women who are fine with packing a picnic lunch and calling it a day. I don't have a problem paying for tea, even if I can get it for free elsewhere.

ender

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #61 on: June 08, 2014, 06:32:02 AM »
A few suggestions, which to me seem obvious:

  • Find local groups doing outdoorsy activities or suggest going to parks
  • If using online dating, don't be afraid to suggest "crazy" ideas like going for a walk/picnic/stargazing or other "Mustachian" ideas. I suspect most of the women here who have tried online dating would have LOVED some guy to initiate with a Mustachian date idea from the beginning
  • You can always disclaimer these ideas even in person or with people you know saying, "it might be a bit non-traditional for a date idea but would you want to go on a picnic sometime?"
  • Generally you have nothing to lose by being up front about your desire for more Mustachian date ideas. All people can do is say no and if there is no committment, who cares if she says no?
  • Go to local dances (my SO and I had as one of our first dates a barn dance - totally ridiculous and we both love it, I think it was about $12 total for 3+ hours entertainment/exercise)
  • Make a list of your hobbies which tend to have a better money attitude and go to them instead of expensive things like bars. even if people initially are not mustachian there are interests (such as outdoorsyness) which imo are much more likely to be "converted" than others (such as, say, bars)

Just approach it fairly logically.

LAL

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #62 on: June 08, 2014, 10:13:32 PM »
As a female I met my DH very young and we were both raised by mustachian parents.  Everything aligned.  Still does.  But A LOT of our friends male and female have trouble with money and relationships.  They can't seem to find sync.

My suggestion to my BIL?  Single, 34, great salary.  Find someone not looking that he spend everything on her.  That appreciates him.  If she's bad with money, it's possible she could change.  But someone insincere and looking for a handout can't.

bacchi

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #63 on: June 08, 2014, 10:43:03 PM »
My thoughts on the whole thread so far, as a newly dating person (female, 42):

1. Ha! I just realized I described myself as female, which has been a contentious issue in the thread. Oh well. I was going to speak to this anyway. I veer from any guy who uses the words "lady" or "ladies" anywhere, or "my girl" when referring to girlfriend/female partner. Reactive as I am to these, I clearly have no problem with "female", as I've used it twice already here. Eek!

It's probably a generational thing (Gen X vs Y) and is probably rooted from the PUA community. "Ladies" sounds offensive to me, too, but one of the links posted above prefers "ladies" over "females."

As for 4), you should check out the Portlandia episode about dumpster diving and dinner parties. :)
« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 10:45:14 PM by bacchi »

scrubbyfish

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #64 on: June 08, 2014, 11:07:01 PM »
As for 4), you should check out the Portlandia episode about dumpster diving and dinner parties. :)

Will do! I adore that show, and my ex was/is very much like one of the (largely delightful) people portrayed on it. He was very proud of his dumpster-diving, and aggravated that I didn't at all love it. When I watch Portlandia, I feel I'm laughing at me and my own more often than not. Will look for this one :)

darkspork

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #65 on: June 08, 2014, 11:16:04 PM »
People have already said it, but bars aren't the best place to look. I'm 25 and have already been married and divorced (I got married too young and for really dumb reasons). That said, I met my ex-wife through mutual friends, she grew up poor and I didn't make a whole lot of money when we got married, she knew from the start that I'm not a flashy person. Money was never a source of tension, so much as that we rarely went out, but that was mostly because I didn't want to go out and argue the whole trip until I got home. Ah, those were times...

Buying stuff and nice clothes doesn't typically attract people, the confidence that stuff gives you attracts them. You said you have no problems "getting laid" so I don't think confidence or attraction is an issue for you. Just continue to put yourself out there, the right person will come along.

That said, you don't have to look sloppy. Wear clothes that fit right and make sure you're getting enough exercise, in short take care of your health. Clothes that fit don't have to cost extra and exercise can be free. Just my opinion.

studentdoc2

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #66 on: June 09, 2014, 09:26:44 AM »
One more point about the females/girls/women (and the analogous males/boys/men) which might help clarify things: A few people have chimed in to say that they don't mind being called [insert noun], which is perfectly fine, but I think it's worth noting for those on the outside that the distinction is that while it is appropriate for members of a group (particularly a historically (or presently) oppressed group) to refer to themselves or their group by a term, it is not necessarily appropriate for outsiders to use the same term. E.g., a woman in her 50s may refer to her group of friends as "the girls", but it would nonetheless be inappropriate for a man to approach that same group and say, "hi, girls."

If that seems weird or a crazy double-standard, try replacing gender in this scenario with sexual orientation or religion, perhaps easiest to understand, race/ethnicity. Members of a racial/ethnic/etc group may refer to themselves or each other by terms that would be exceedingly inappropriate or racist for outsiders to use.

All this said in the spirit of friendly discourse, as I don't think anyone here has any intention of alienating or insulting anyone (quite the opposite!).

rmendpara

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #67 on: June 09, 2014, 10:00:02 AM »
Here's a question that I battle with in my mind:

How will being mustachian affect finding a partner to spend the rest of my life with?

I am 26 years old and enjoy my life as it is.  I have a great time with great friends, great family, and going on occasional dates.  I enjoy going out and meeting people, although I find it hard to meet someone that peaks my interests, has same values/morals/views as me, (Not necessarily about being frugal or mustachian), and that i'm attracted to.  I have no problem in going out and just "getting laid" if that's what I really wanted, but that is not really my style and never has been.  I want someone to share my life with, but I will not rush to go out and marry someone just to fill a void or have a fairy tale wedding, (which sadly, IMO, alot of young people do.)

The thing is, I go out and meet people, but I spend quite a bit of money doing it. Then, dates cost more money.  I am far from mustachian badassity that many of you are here, but I am ok with that.  I just don't want to spend ALL of my money like most people are doing my age.  They buy new cars, big trucks, nice boats, "stylish" clothes (I think style is bullshit), spend frivolously on going out, and even go in debt to do all of this.  All to impress others and court a mate.  And the sad result... It works.  In our society, (especially those around my age and younger) I see ALOT of females falling for this bs.  They'll end up with someone that lives paycheck to paycheck no matter how much they make, or is in debt.  Yes, that connection may fail in the future, but they still fell for it.

The biggest point would be this...

Do you still go out, be anti-mustachian so that you don't appear to be "poor" or "not cool" in the eyes of others, so that you even have that CHANCE of just speaking to them and possibly something more? (You know what they say about first impressions.)  OR, do you say to hell with what society thinks, be mustachian, not go out, drive something that appears "cheap", wear "cheap" clothes, etc.  And HOPE that you stumble into someone that you would want to spend the rest of your life with?

I feel that it is extremely easier to be frugal once you already have a partner and aren't searching.

No need to be a Hobbit and live in a cave. You didn't post any income/expense figures, but assuming you are saving 20%+ of your income, you don't need to go Neanderthal extreme 60-70% savings rates like some people do... we all have different goals and it's not a competition.

Igelfreundin

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #68 on: June 10, 2014, 10:56:10 AM »
I'm a bit older than the OP (me: late 30's), but I'm of the opinion that you should be yourself, not spend money to look good. I've done some online dating, and potential dates who describe themselves as always out on the town get crossed off my list, because they don't seem like potential mustachians. And, I'm impressed if they suggest just going for coffee (rather than dinner) for the first date, because it looks like they're being careful with their money. YMMV depending on your target audience.

curlycue

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #69 on: June 10, 2014, 11:31:42 AM »
If a guy actually took me out on a pricey date, I would feel uncomfortable b/c I'd be stuck wondering if he constantly spends this kind of money.

If you meet a girl you like, I'd avoid expensive dates and opt for different options. Instead of asking a girl out, you can ask if they want to hangout. Watch a movie at your place or something. Times have changes. Formal dates are uncommon in my opinion.

You sound like you are on a smarter path when it comes to finances and dating. As long as your content with yourself, love will find it's way. It's nice to hear someone not trying to push for it though. Everyone I know is so worked up on finding someone to share their bed with; they forget to enjoy their own company.

I agree totally on the cheap date, however, disagree completely with the movie thing. If you ask a lady to your house - for dinner, a movie, hangout, anything, she will interpret that as a bootie call and that you only want one thing. I would say ask her out on a date and pay even if she offers, but you can keep it affordable and simple. When the weather is nice you can pack a picnic and go to the park. You can simply ask her out for ice cream. Or you can plan a bbq. Most places have cultural events that are free and you can go somewhere simple for drinks and appetizers with that. There is so much that can be done by going out and getting to know someone without spending a ton of money.

Also, I have a friend who is getting married to a guy who is divorced. His first wife went crazy with spending and almost lost the house. Many people get divorced over money issues. Now that he is engaged to my friend - she is like a mustachian guru - I think that was one of the major reasons he was attracted to her. They live in a major city and drive out to the forest to go hiking a lot of weekends. So I'm saying that being mustachian is an asset in your marriage, and as long as you find someone who supports that, you can help each other to manage your finances well. It will strengthen your relationships and stabilize them.

There are many many women out there who would be so happy to date you. I have so many friends with husbands who cannot handle money at all. It is pretty depressing for a woman to have to take on all of the money management because a guy is lazy or incompetent with money. By sharing that responsibility, you will have a much happier wife. Women like pro-acative men who they do not need to mommy and teach about being responsible with money.

shotgunwilly

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #70 on: June 10, 2014, 11:58:31 AM »
If a guy actually took me out on a pricey date, I would feel uncomfortable b/c I'd be stuck wondering if he constantly spends this kind of money.

If you meet a girl you like, I'd avoid expensive dates and opt for different options. Instead of asking a girl out, you can ask if they want to hangout. Watch a movie at your place or something. Times have changes. Formal dates are uncommon in my opinion.

You sound like you are on a smarter path when it comes to finances and dating. As long as your content with yourself, love will find it's way. It's nice to hear someone not trying to push for it though. Everyone I know is so worked up on finding someone to share their bed with; they forget to enjoy their own company.

I agree totally on the cheap date, however, disagree completely with the movie thing. If you ask a lady to your house - for dinner, a movie, hangout, anything, she will interpret that as a bootie call and that you only want one thing.

Through my experience, it doesn't matter how you think someone will "interpret" or what they will think about something you do/did.  Everyone will interpret it different or have a different view about something you do.  One person may think you're a creep or have bad intentions, and another person will believe you are sincere.  So I try not to think about this (I have problems over analyzing things), and just do what I feel is right or what I want.  It should weed out people "incompatible", right?


FYI everyone, I'm taking a girl I recently met to the lake this weekend to fish (she made it clear she would really like to go) and then we might go dancing or something that night. (I met her dancing.)
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 12:01:29 PM by shotgunwilly »

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #71 on: June 10, 2014, 12:30:01 PM »
I think this is a super fascinating conversation. it's always interesting to hear men's opinions on dating, since they do end up paying for a lot more stuff, but it seems like a lot of guys have an unrealistically negative view of women and women's thoughts on money.

This is a false dichotomy. Why choose being mustachian or finding a partner when you can choose both? As many on the board can attest, those aren't mutually exclusive.

I would wager that the majority of people here either are single or became mustachian AFTER they already had a partner.

well as one anecdotal data point... I did meet my SO before finding this particular website, but I was still frugal at the time (partly out of necessity, I was a grad TA making $20k a year), lived with roommates and drove a 17-year-old Chevy Lumina. he also was nothing super fancy himself (actually he failed to make it to one of our earliest dates, going running in the woods together, because his ancient Pontiac broke down en route).

also, as a 26 y.o. woman (22 when I met my S.O.) I gotta say you are either hanging out in the wrong places, or just ignoring/not noticing a lot of women. I guarantee we are not all shallow, materialistic, money-grubbers easily fooled by dudes with fancy cars and toys :)

I think it depends a lot on the values a woman's parents have, and whether she decides to follow them.

It's important to note the differences between how we're raised compared to girls. Girls get bombarded by media that says spending money and having nice/lots of stuff makes you a more valuable person....I think guys get off easier.

I totally disagree.  What about the commercials, magazines, and other forums that focus on how studly and masculine you can be if you buy this gun/truck/nutrition supplement/workout routine?  And the rise of metrosexuality made it fashionable and even desirable to enjoy some of the same anti-mustachian beauty privileges that some women do.

My story is very different...when I met my spouse, we were both just looking for fun.  It was quite by accident that we discovered we shared the same familial values, as well as personal faith and drive toward higher education.  I'm thankful every day that we found each other, while just trying to hook up!  I paid for the first meal and declined the offer to share the bill.  I think that if your date doesn't at least offer to help pay for the tip out of kindness (especially if you're the type to go to classier places), she may not be that great.

agree 100% with all of your comments, MidwestGal! (seriously, down to the fact that I have the same story about a casual hookup with a friend leading to an amazing relationship with a partner who complements me perfectly... LOL)

I hear you. I'm 23 and I've gone through a similar thought. I think it's just young girls, man. It takes time for girls to learn that the superficial stuff is only short-term gratification and the long term things (frugalty, etc.,) matter more. Although rare- there are girls in their 20s who appreciate "2-for-1" coupon type guys. I've found the closer a girl is to 30 the less they care about superfluous, surface type things, and being a moral, determined, thoughtful man matter more.

It's important to note the differences between how we're raised compared to girls. Girls get bombarded by media that says spending money and having nice/lots of stuff makes you a more valuable person. Coming out of that fog can be challenging because of how strong that belief is built in from a young age. While this is true for both guys and girls, I think guys get off easier.

I agree with the two posters above me- being a little generous goes a long way. It's classy to pay for a first date.

Okay, let's not place all of our society's materialism on women (and please -- a female in her 20s is a woman, not a girl, just as a male in his 20s is a man, not a boy). Men are just as subject to this.

 I knew this would come up in this thread at some point.  I certainly wasn't singling out women in my question, and I do not believe Healthie was either.  When he states "I think it's just young girls man," I believe he is comparing younger females to older more mature females (since I am male and talking about a female partner)... not comparing younger females to younger males.

*edit: had to change "girl" to "female" :P

hmm, he comes off as talking more about young women vs. young men.

on another note (Luck12's comment about his date not knowing what a mutual fund was made me think of this), sometimes it can be hard to tease out a major difference in values vs. just someone's lack of knowledge/exposure to the concept. my boyfriend has never been a showy/spendy/super-materialistic type, but he is just NOT GOOD at managing money. he is the kind of person who will waste money on late fees and have terrible credit, purely through carelessness. he has had a car reposessed (which to my brain is like HOW THE FUCK WOULD YOU EVER LET SOMETHING LIKE THAT HAPPEN?!!?? haha)!! but our values and goals are aligned, so now that we are in it together it's easy for me to just handle the financial stuff, and it's not like I'm trying to fight a partner who's a crazy spendy mcspenderpants (because that would be horrible).

They want frugal, practical women, not gold diggers!  Down to Earth Women. . .  so long as those women LOOK like they have a personal trainer, go to the salon every week for waxings, get a $100 haircut ever 6 weeks, spend an 30 minutes a day on makeup, and respond to his texts within 10 minutes. 

But, it might be that the values you are looking for are more commonly found in the ladies who go to bed early for work, make meals at their house, pack lunches, and don't spend much on their looks.  Their hair might not be as bouncy, because the bike helmet crushed it.  They might be wearing comfortable jeans because they think the sexiest, trendiest jeans just aren't worth the $200.  They might feel that high heels are expensive and harmful and impractical.  She might avoid the bars and clubs because she knows she won't be the prettiest, most done up one there, and so those places make her feel bad or don't attract what she's looking for. 

yes!!!! +1000.

FYI everyone, I'm taking a girl I recently met to the lake this weekend to fish (she made it clear she would really like to go) and then we might go dancing or something that night. (I met her dancing.)

sounds awesome!!

WranglerBowman

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #72 on: June 11, 2014, 01:57:21 PM »
So when is MMM starting a dating site/forum?  It sounds like half of the things people are looking for in the opposite sex are already on this site waiting to be discovered.  I'm sure the male to female ratio though is probably 14:1.

shotgunwilly

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #73 on: June 11, 2014, 02:10:15 PM »
So when is MMM starting a dating site/forum?  It sounds like half of the things people are looking for in the opposite sex are already on this site waiting to be discovered.  I'm sure the male to female ratio though is probably 14:1.

There already is a section in the forums for this.

Cheddar Stacker

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #74 on: June 11, 2014, 02:22:30 PM »
So when is MMM starting a dating site/forum?  It sounds like half of the things people are looking for in the opposite sex are already on this site waiting to be discovered.  I'm sure the male to female ratio though is probably 14:1.

Also, there is a poll from 5 months ago suggesting the women outnumber the men on this forum. Last I checked, it was about 55% women. Maybe someone needs to re-ignite that poll to get more up to date numbers, but I suspect it would come out about the same.

Here it is. Who wants to give it a bump?? I've already voted, so I'm out.
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/

EDIT: Apologies, the voting was locked near the end of the thread. Either way, there are more women here than most people think.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 03:12:10 PM by Cheddar Stacker »

Jags4186

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #75 on: June 11, 2014, 02:52:05 PM »
From personal experience I found that you just have to bite the bullet and spend the money when you start dating. When I first started dating my SO we went out A LOT and I was picking up the big ticket items simply because I made a fair amount more. Gradually as we got more serious the spending went down. She isn't a MMM type but I found saying to her "I don't want to do X because I'm trying to help save for our future" she bought into the frugal life style. We're both far from hardcore mustachians but we've really reduced our spending in the last year and we are no worse for the wear. 


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Chuck

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #76 on: June 11, 2014, 03:47:08 PM »
I think that the OP is worrying a bit too much about this.

Go out and meet people. Or meet people online. Whichever is easier and more convenient for you.

When you go on dates, go to places that are meaningful, but have a low financial cost. Or alternatively, do what I did: Go dutch. I think you'll be surprised how many women are open to that idea, and gauging their reaction can be very informative. Figure out who they are, and what they like, and make sure your interests align, that you're mutually attracted and that you have compatible personalities.

THEN worry about their views on philosophy, to include personal finances.

My current girlfriend is from a culture that is very materialistic. You reflect wealth and security by wearing brand name everything and using brand name everything. For a while we had a mild conflict between my Kirkland Costco ways and her desire to buy the most expensive thing possible, but after several reasoned discussions and some proof of concept she came to see my point of view. Her views on ER are, frankly, almost irrelevant as she has a very minimal affect on my finances.

Don't select yourself out of the dating pool by trying to make some kind of financial litmus test, is what I'm getting at. You might cause yourself to disqualify some amazingly compatible partners.

apfroggy0408

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #77 on: June 11, 2014, 04:37:02 PM »
Where I'm from being able to country two step is a big plus. Where I used to live if you get there before 9 it was free!!! Although I was a stupid kid and spent too much money drinking it can be done cheaply.

I haven't met any girls that haven't loved dancing even when they say they are horrible at it.

But now that I don't live back home and no such country bars exist around here I'm so lost at what to do haha.

My current passion is being healthy and frugal and recently have lost 65 lbs getting back into powerlifting. So I'm at the gym quite a bit but it seems too odd to try and talk to a girl while at the gym... maybe i'm just a big baby though...

Since I'm active in still trying to lose weight I don't eat outside of my diet very often so this make the idea of dating weird to me. I also don't drink anymore. I can make any girl laugh but it's kinda hard to set the stage when I'm so strict with my diet. Maybe once I'm able to have cheat meals more than twice a month I can kind of work that into things.

blah

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #78 on: June 11, 2014, 04:53:35 PM »
Since I'm active in still trying to lose weight I don't eat outside of my diet very often so this make the idea of dating weird to me. I also don't drink anymore. I can make any girl laugh but it's kinda hard to set the stage when I'm so strict with my diet. Maybe once I'm able to have cheat meals more than twice a month I can kind of work that into things.

I hope you don't let this stop you! A lot of people now are very intentional/conscious about their eating. Gluten-free, paleo, vegan, just "generally healthy", sugar-free, etc. In our 12 Step group for people with problematic eating patterns, lots of people are successfully dating. Several of them have extremely precise eating plans (precise times, precise ingredients, precise measurements), and it's been no problem. On a date, a dish of grilled salmon and a side of greens, for example, can look entirely "normal", requiring no embarrassed explanations.

Some online dating systems ask one's diet, because some people care about what their partner's is, and are seeking someone who cares about their own. Your current effort may be precisely what draws your new partner! Plus, dates -especially early ones- need not involve a dinner out. Tea or coffee works, as do activities. If the timing demands food, a homemade picnic is lovely -a chance to demonstrate your care, your interest in health, your creativity, and your financial wisdom. I hope you'll let yourself get out there!

apfroggy0408

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #79 on: June 11, 2014, 05:09:10 PM »
Since I'm active in still trying to lose weight I don't eat outside of my diet very often so this make the idea of dating weird to me. I also don't drink anymore. I can make any girl laugh but it's kinda hard to set the stage when I'm so strict with my diet. Maybe once I'm able to have cheat meals more than twice a month I can kind of work that into things.

I hope you don't let this stop you! A lot of people now are very intentional/conscious about their eating. Gluten-free, paleo, vegan, just "generally healthy", sugar-free, etc. In our 12 Step group for people with problematic eating patterns, lots of people are successfully dating. Several of them have extremely precise eating plans (precise times, precise ingredients, precise measurements), and it's been no problem. On a date, a dish of grilled salmon and a side of greens, for example, can look entirely "normal", requiring no embarrassed explanations.

Some online dating systems ask one's diet, because some people care about what their partner's is, and are seeking someone who cares about their own. Your current effort may be precisely what draws your new partner! Plus, dates -especially early ones- need not involve a dinner out. Tea or coffee works, as do activities. If the timing demands food, a homemade picnic is lovely -a chance to demonstrate your care, your interest in health, your creativity, and your financial wisdom. I hope you'll let yourself get out there!

Ya my diet is definitely extremely precise, counting calories, weighing everything that goes in my mouth. BUT I'll eventually be able to have cheat meals without it being a hindrance in any way. I'll be there soon!!

Like you said I just need to get myself out there.

frugalnacho

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #80 on: June 11, 2014, 05:19:49 PM »
If a guy actually took me out on a pricey date, I would feel uncomfortable b/c I'd be stuck wondering if he constantly spends this kind of money.

If you meet a girl you like, I'd avoid expensive dates and opt for different options. Instead of asking a girl out, you can ask if they want to hangout. Watch a movie at your place or something. Times have changes. Formal dates are uncommon in my opinion.

You sound like you are on a smarter path when it comes to finances and dating. As long as your content with yourself, love will find it's way. It's nice to hear someone not trying to push for it though. Everyone I know is so worked up on finding someone to share their bed with; they forget to enjoy their own company.

I agree totally on the cheap date, however, disagree completely with the movie thing. If you ask a lady to your house - for dinner, a movie, hangout, anything, she will interpret that as a bootie call and that you only want one thing. I would say ask her out on a date and pay even if she offers, but you can keep it affordable and simple. When the weather is nice you can pack a picnic and go to the park. You can simply ask her out for ice cream. Or you can plan a bbq. Most places have cultural events that are free and you can go somewhere simple for drinks and appetizers with that. There is so much that can be done by going out and getting to know someone without spending a ton of money.


Say what? At my suggestion the 2nd date with the wife was making dinner and watching a dvd at her apartment. 

My reasoning was that:

1. It's gonna be much cheaper
2. It's gonna be healthier
3. We will be able to spend some time with her dog instead of leaving it alone
4. It has a greater chance of leading to sex

I didn't disclose all of my reasons, but they are still true.  Obviously we are still together 5 years later.

NinetyFour

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #81 on: June 11, 2014, 05:40:24 PM »

FYI everyone, I'm taking a girl I recently met to the lake this weekend to fish (she made it clear she would really like to go) and then we might go dancing or something that night. (I met her dancing.)

"A girl"?  How old is she?

Sorry--I'm glad you have this date and I really hope it works out well, but ick, I hate the term "girl" used for adult women.  Definitely a turn off for me when men (or women) use this term inappropriately.

shotgunwilly

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #82 on: June 12, 2014, 07:45:11 AM »

FYI everyone, I'm taking a girl I recently met to the lake this weekend to fish (she made it clear she would really like to go) and then we might go dancing or something that night. (I met her dancing.)

"A girl"?  How old is she?

Sorry--I'm glad you have this date and I really hope it works out well, but ick, I hate the term "girl" used for adult women.  Definitely a turn off for me when men (or women) use this term inappropriately.

Good for you. Looks like I blew my shot with you doesn't it.........
« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 07:46:59 AM by shotgunwilly »

NinetyFour

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #83 on: June 12, 2014, 08:07:54 AM »
Looks like I blew my shot with you doesn't it.........

Not necessarily.  ;-)

Being a vegetarian and not a fan of hunting in general, the idea of going fishing wouldn't appeal to me, either.  :(  But I bet we could find something we both would enjoy!

Anyway, I do hope you have fun on your fishing/dancing date this weekend!!  :)

curlycue

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #84 on: June 12, 2014, 08:16:25 AM »
Thanks for proving my point :)



Say what? At my suggestion the 2nd date with the wife was making dinner and watching a dvd at her apartment. 

My reasoning was that:

1. It's gonna be much cheaper
2. It's gonna be healthier
3. We will be able to spend some time with her dog instead of leaving it alone
4. It has a greater chance of leading to sex

I didn't disclose all of my reasons, but they are still true.  Obviously we are still together 5 years later.

shotgunwilly

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #85 on: June 12, 2014, 08:27:17 AM »
Looks like I blew my shot with you doesn't it.........

Not necessarily.  ;-)

Being a vegetarian and not a fan of hunting in general, the idea of going fishing wouldn't appeal to me, either.  :(  But I bet we could find something we both would enjoy!

Anyway, I do hope you have fun on your fishing/dancing date this weekend!!  :)

Thanks!

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #86 on: June 12, 2014, 09:00:00 AM »
Thanks for proving my point :)



Say what? At my suggestion the 2nd date with the wife was making dinner and watching a dvd at her apartment. 

My reasoning was that:

1. It's gonna be much cheaper
2. It's gonna be healthier
3. We will be able to spend some time with her dog instead of leaving it alone
4. It has a greater chance of leading to sex

I didn't disclose all of my reasons, but they are still true.  Obviously we are still together 5 years later.

this is probably a whole 'nother topic but... I'm pretty sure there's a difference between "having sex with someone you have recently begun dating and hope to continue dating" and a "booty call."

curlycue

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #87 on: June 12, 2014, 09:18:13 AM »
Thanks for proving my point :)



Say what? At my suggestion the 2nd date with the wife was making dinner and watching a dvd at her apartment. 

My reasoning was that:

1. It's gonna be much cheaper
2. It's gonna be healthier
3. We will be able to spend some time with her dog instead of leaving it alone
4. It has a greater chance of leading to sex

I didn't disclose all of my reasons, but they are still true.  Obviously we are still together 5 years later.

this is probably a whole 'nother topic but... I'm pretty sure there's a difference between "having sex with someone you have recently begun dating and hope to continue dating" and a "booty call."

I totally agree, and I'm not saying booty call was there intention at all.

I'm just saying early on the woman may misinterpret the intent of the invitation. Of course some people would not, and there are advantages to cooking at home, etc. The perspective of the woman is just one aspect to consider. It also depends on how well you know a person.

If the people know and trust each other well, then it may not be an issue. Me, personally, if it is a stranger then I am reluctant - date rape is too common for me to put myself in a risky situation like that. I am in no way saying anyone here would do that - just saying that women think about protecting themselves and they don't know who to trust. Maybe later on in the relationship, but date one, two, three with someone I don't really know, and I'm not taking that risk.

I think that in building a serious relationship it is to the man's advantage to build the trust and respect of a woman early on and there are other options to save money. By showing her she can trust him, letting her get to know him, and not giving opportunity for a misunderstanding (as in - does he want a relationship with me or is this a bootie call? this is often a point of analysis for women), it will set a strong foundation to his advantage. In starting off on a strong foot, with no doubts or confusion on her mind, there is a better chance of success in dating or even parting as friends without any bad feelings.

frugalnacho

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #88 on: June 12, 2014, 09:22:04 AM »
Thanks for proving my point :)



Say what? At my suggestion the 2nd date with the wife was making dinner and watching a dvd at her apartment. 

My reasoning was that:

1. It's gonna be much cheaper
2. It's gonna be healthier
3. We will be able to spend some time with her dog instead of leaving it alone
4. It has a greater chance of leading to sex

I didn't disclose all of my reasons, but they are still true.  Obviously we are still together 5 years later.

How does that prove your point?  You said a home-date was a bad idea because it would be perceived as a booty call and that I only wanted one thing.  I wanted several things out of it, including sex.  Also why is it so bad to want sex out of a relationship?

If the girl aint down with cheap meals, cheap entertainment, and open to the possibility of sex, then why would I even want to date her?  We wouldn't be compatible.

curlycue

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #89 on: June 12, 2014, 09:28:04 AM »
Thanks for proving my point :)



Say what? At my suggestion the 2nd date with the wife was making dinner and watching a dvd at her apartment. 

My reasoning was that:

1. It's gonna be much cheaper
2. It's gonna be healthier
3. We will be able to spend some time with her dog instead of leaving it alone
4. It has a greater chance of leading to sex

I didn't disclose all of my reasons, but they are still true.  Obviously we are still together 5 years later.

How does that prove your point?  You said a home-date was a bad idea because it would be perceived as a booty call and that I only wanted one thing.  I wanted several things out of it, including sex.  Also why is it so bad to want sex out of a relationship?

If the girl aint down with cheap meals, cheap entertainment, and open to the possibility of sex, then why would I even want to date her?  We wouldn't be compatible.

No, I said she may perceive it as a bootie call or only wanting one thing, especially if it is done very early in the relationship. I'm not saying that was your only intention.

If a man asks for advise on beginning a relationship, I am going to tell him to stack the odds in his favor, and success means trying to minimize things that may lead to misunderstandings very early in the relationship. There are exceptions to every situation, but my argument is to put the odds in his favor.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 09:32:05 AM by curlycue »

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #90 on: June 12, 2014, 10:17:24 AM »
this is probably a whole 'nother topic but... I'm pretty sure there's a difference between "having sex with someone you have recently begun dating and hope to continue dating" and a "booty call."

I totally agree, and I'm not saying booty call was there intention at all.

I'm just saying early on the woman may misinterpret the intent of the invitation. Of course some people would not, and there are advantages to cooking at home, etc. The perspective of the woman is just one aspect to consider. It also depends on how well you know a person.

If the people know and trust each other well, then it may not be an issue. Me, personally, if it is a stranger then I am reluctant - date rape is too common for me to put myself in a risky situation like that. I am in no way saying anyone here would do that - just saying that women think about protecting themselves and they don't know who to trust. Maybe later on in the relationship, but date one, two, three with someone I don't really know, and I'm not taking that risk.

I think that in building a serious relationship it is to the man's advantage to build the trust and respect of a woman early on and there are other options to save money. By showing her she can trust him, letting her get to know him, and not giving opportunity for a misunderstanding (as in - does he want a relationship with me or is this a bootie call? this is often a point of analysis for women), it will set a strong foundation to his advantage. In starting off on a strong foot, with no doubts or confusion on her mind, there is a better chance of success in dating or even parting as friends without any bad feelings.

interesting. I see your point. I think for me it would make a difference whether the date was with someone I am already acquainted with/have mutual friends in common/already kinda friends already, vs. someone I randomly encountered at the gym or met via online dating (for example). basically ALL of my personal dating experience has been with the former, so I for sure wouldn't be weirded out by an invite to his house early on in the game (and this has happened, in fact I think my third date with my boyfriend of almost 4 years was an invite to his house... second was a literal, actual booty call instigated by me, LOL)... but I can see how in the latter case I would definitely be a little more wary!

NestEggChick (formerly PFgal)

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #91 on: June 12, 2014, 02:55:19 PM »
First, it always amazes me how many men suggest that "most women" want a guy who spends a lot of money, even when the audience consists of many women who want just the opposite.

Second, a lot of people have suggested online dating. I can see why that works for a lot of people, but I'm not a fan. If meetup.com is active in your area, you might want to try that as an alternative. The idea is to join groups online that then meet in person. I've gone on dates with people I've met through meetup groups. I've also made some awesome friends that way. There are groups for just about anything you can think of - singles, dog owners, runners, hobbies, etc. If you meet someone at one of these groups, chances are you'll already have something in common, which is a great way to start. Most of the groups are free, so her very presence shows that she knows how to have a good time without spending a lot of money.

And finally, try the singles forum on here. At least you know anyone responding is already interested in a more mustachian lifestyle.

Spartana

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #92 on: June 12, 2014, 03:28:49 PM »
I suggest you meet potential mates "organically" i.e. via activities you have in common like hobbies or sports and through friends.  This gives you the opportunity to get to know them a bit and make friends before you go on a "date".  This way they'll have an idea on the front end as to your spending attitudes (like if you're in a bike club and have a $5,000 bike..., what you drive, where you live/work, etc.). 

Amen that.  If I want to find anti-mustachian people, I look to those who habitually hang out in bars for fun, or to find a mate.  You find lots (not all, but lots) of people who are superficial, who like vacuous entertainment and who like blowing a lot of money on getting drunk.  What's mustachian about that?   I find kindred spirits in meetups, hiking, at the dog park, at bookstores, in adult ed classes on frugal topics.  But I wouldn't entirely rule out online dating - just make your dates somewhere better than a bar, unless that's the only thing you enjoy.
Yo Pug! (waving Hi)

I agree too. Look into meet up groups (if that's not too old school for you) as it's a great way to do activities you like and meet like minded people. And of course it can be free! I met the last 2 guys I had relationships while involved in activities thru meetup.com (volleyball and climbing meet ups).

Also never heard using the word "female" was offensive or disrespectful to women. I'm perfectly fine with someone using it to describe me - I usually use it to describe myself - as long as they don't call me Lady or, horrors!!!, gal.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 03:49:29 PM by Spartana »

fitzgeralday

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Re: Being Mustachian vs Finding a Partner?
« Reply #93 on: June 12, 2014, 03:48:53 PM »
As a fellow singleton I second the notion about meeting potentials while engaging in activities of shared interest rather than the typical bar/club scene - though I wouldn't automatically discount those environments.  I've been pointed in the direction of Meet Up groups on several different occasions as a mode of meeting new people.  I also agree that dating doesn't have to be expensive, but that not falling into the normal trappings of what a date "should" consist of requires creativity.  Anyone can do the typical dinner and movies, but not everyone thinks of budget friendly and fun options - like spending the afternoon together visiting neighborhood garage sales and with a $5 budget finding something that you think the other person might like, followed by a low-budget picnic in the park.  I actually tend to be more impressed by dates that deviate from the norm and suggest a more personalized touch, rather than the amount of money that was spent.  Happy dating!