Basis for comparison

[HiItsMe]

I like knowing the numbers to compare apples to apples. Here are some things I've been wondering about after reading some postings here.
1. When you say you spend $(insert amazingly low dollar amount here) per month on "Food" or "groceries" are you including TP? Toothpaste? Tampax?

2. In order to save money on electricity, how low do you turn your thermostat? 68? 65? lower?

3. When growing own food as a cost savings measure, did you factor in the "capital investment" of shovels, rakes, extra water used, deer fencing, etc? Is it still cost effective?

Thanks!

[Greg]

Good questions...

1.  For our household, we calculate groceries as food and drink, and those other things go under household supplies.  Some things are under Medical supplies, and we have a category for building supplies also.  Tools probably fall into the building supplies category for us.

2.  Ours is set to 66ºF twice a day, and 62ºF otherwise.  We have radiant floor heat so it's very slow to change.

3.  Not sure about this except as mentioned above, we do it not just to save money but to know the quality is good.  We also raise chickens for eggs, chickens for meat and milk goats for meat and dairy.  Our deer fence (large area) was $2K.  Our water use is an unmetered well.

[Frankies Girl]

1. I think it varies by person. I usually keep my household expenses (TP, cleaning stuff, soap) as household expenses, and have separate categories for eating out and groceries, but others might lump them together.

2. I live in a very hot, humid climate, and have electric for A/C and gas for heat. So our general rule of thumb on the A/C is turn it off during the day when we're out of the house, and set it to around 74 when we're home. For heat, we rarely get down below 40˚F, so in general we leave the heat off during the day an set it to about 65˚F at night. This results in decent A/C and heating bills for us, but then I'm fine with running the ceiling fan if I am hot or putting on a sweater if I get cold, so we don't usually mess with the thermostat too much.

3. Tools and supplies are a necessary cost obviously, but I generally don't figure in their initial outlay since they can be used for other purposes in general. We bought a good spade/shovel a few years ago and I've used it to turn compost, dig holes for gardening, fence posts and dig up flower beds. I actually don't figure stuff down to the penny as it isn't worth my time and the benefits of gardening to grow your own food tend to outweigh the actual money cost to me.

Bottom line? You should only be using others' numbers for a very general guideline since you're not ever going to get an apples to apples comparison, and I wouldn't think of it as a competition or hard and fast rule to exactly match - you're just trying to get to your own personal level of good enough.

[Rural]

1. My grocery "category" is pretty sloppy and includes all household supplies, OTC medicines, and pet food. It varies wildly from person to person.

2. I gave things a try with the heat set on 64 and decided I'd rather pay for heat. We've got the kitchen, which has one of the heat pumps, between 66 and 68 now, and the house is at at such high thermal mass that, once we heat the mass, it'll probably be pretty easy to maintain anyway (earth sheltered, and ground temp is 68 year round here). That mass also means we don't have much swing between night and day. I'm gradually pushing things upward, but it takes about a week to make a full degree change, so this is a longish-term project, maybe a month to get to 67-8 in the whole house. Now is actually a good time for this project; because of sun angles, we'll get the maximum amount of solar gain for the entire year tomorrow. Unless it's cloudy, of course. :-)

3. Tools for gardening aren't that much, but we inherited our tiller and many things can be found secondhand. Supplies can be seeds from the dollar store the first year and saved thereafter. I did figure full cost my first year, but my only costs since have been tomato seeds (these can be saved, but are a major PITA since they have to be fermented). Mulch is leftover newspaper or cardboard boxes if you don't have a limitless supply of leaves as we do. Fertilizer/ organic matter may be something to be bought if you live in the city; I've never had to. Grow a cover crop in fall/winter to limit the need, legumes or clover if possible because they fix nitrogen in the soil.

[Bruised_Pepper]

1. I've always included household stuff in my grocery budget, but I'm thinking for next month I'll break it out.  I generally use my online banking module to tally up expenses, and only use receipts for cash purchases, but I think it's worth going through the grocery receipt to separate the two. 

2.  I don't use heat.  My heater isn't even hooked up to my gas.  Then again, I live in Los Angeles.  Your results may vary.

3.  N/A

[wtjbatman]

Funny I figured most people would include household items like T.P. in with "groceries", but so far the replies are split pretty evenly. I lump them all together, FYI. If anything it's the easiest for me to manage in Mint, as I buy everything from groceries to T.P. to soap all from the same places (Target/HyVee/Wal-Mart/etc).

[dragoncar]

I've never posted such numbers, but it you include tampons in "food" then you're an ass

[Nudelkopf]

1. My "groceries" category (see link to my budget below!) includes food (not dining out), toiletries (e.g. toilet paper, shampoo, deoderant), and kitchen supplies (e.g. sponges, dishwashing liquid). And laundry stuff, which amounts to a lot since I'm currently trying to find a washing liquid/powder that I'm not allergic to!

And yes, I include tampons in my groceries category, since I buy them at the same shop as everything else above!

[Catbert]

Gardening expenses:  I track all gardening expenses (except water and my labor) and pounds of produce harvested.  The 1st year my fruit/veggies cost me $14.45 a pound!  (I could/should have done much most cost effectively.)  2nd year: $1.19 lb, 3rd year 83 cents lb. 4th year: $1.18.  This year I didn't have any capital expenses so 23 cents a lb. 

It would have been less earlier except for my running battle with skunks.

[Jamesqf]

2) House temp runs about 65 in the day, 60 at night.  Not to save electricity (or firewood/heating oil), but because that's comfortable to me.

3) I don't figure cost of tools, or anything else - like the land - in gardening.  I do it for pleasure, so cost vs value of produce is irrelevant.  Don't have or need deer fencing: used to get the occasional bear, but haven't seen one since I got the current dogs.

[Zikoris]

We budget $230/month for groceries, and for us that includes household supplies like toilet paper, paper towels, and cleaning stuff.

We put tampons, shampoo, deodorant, etc. under "personal care", but that comes to such a small amount - around $7/month each, not even really worth thinking about.

We don't pay for electricity or grow food, so no comments there.

[HiItsMe]

Thanks everyone for your details and thoughtful comments.

Mary W, I appreciate that you calculated the cost per pound to grow food, but that it went down. And am glad to hear your win against the skunks.

Thanks dragoncar for giving me a laugh with your comment. Pretty interesting that everyone distributes those non-food items throughout the budget in different ways. Clearly "food" is a much more restrictive category than "groceries." which tells me those who use that as a budget category are going to have a smaller number.

[Russ]

My groceries include everything I buy at the grocery store

Thermostat lives at 62 while I'm home, but because it's genuinely my favorite temperature in winter, not to save money

[bacchi]

1) My "groceries" includes all items bought at the grocery store, including food, toiletries, cleaning supplies, and pet food. There's also a "food out" budget, which includes restaurant and deli eating.

2) It's set to 58 at night and 62 during during the day, generally, depending on who last touched the thermostat. It's gas heat and, like Russ, I prefer lower temps.

3) No but I suppose I should.

[pachnik]

I also include all items bought at the grocery store in my grocery expenses - including toothpaste, clean supplies. Christmas wrapping paper last weekend.

Our heating costs are included in our rent, so I don't worry too much about that. 

[BoulderTC]

We don't include household items in our grocery budget because household items come from a different store than our food does, so it's a separate trip and a different line item on the credit card bill.

We keep our house at 57 at night and when we can stand it. We'll bump it up to 60 in the evening when we're home. And 62 if we're feeling really spoiled.

[Charlotte]

Our food categories are two combined categories:
     Groceries + Household
     Dining + Entertainment

I found that combining categories makes the budget less complicated, and I don't want to separate out the Target and Grocery Store bills based on where I paper towels and bananas.

As for heat, I grew up with a mom who always complained about the electric bill, so we had to wear sweatshirts and blankets all the time. The husband and I refuse to live that way. Our thermostat is set at 70 and pretty much stays there all winter (although I will drop it to 68 when I leave for work sometimes). We also have natural gas for heat, so the bills aren't too high.

Re: question 3 -- Not applicable.

[Seppie]

Our categories are pretty granular compared to some.  We've got a Beauty category, which is mostly me (haircuts, waxing, makeup) but includes kid haircuts as well, and a Toiletries and Cleaners category, which includes toilet paper, laundry detergent, deodorant, trash bags, toothpaste, etc.  I guess the reason I split those out is that the Beauty stuff is more discretionary; I can put off a haircut, but I can't put off buying toothpaste.  We also have a category for Prescriptions, Medicines, and Dr. Visits. 

Food is split into several categories: Groceries (this includes school lunches, when the kids buy those), Will Restaurants, Seppie Restaurants, S & W Restaurants, and Family Restaurants.  My husband drives the spending in our individual restaurant categories, because I budget as much to mine as he spends in his (and my restaurant budget often just goes into my fun money budget).  Treats go into our restaurant categories, too.  If he buys a chocolate milk on the way to work, or I buy a Coke or coffee, that's not considered groceries, even if it came from the grocery store. 

Part of the reason we have so many categories is that we (I) get resentful if things aren't "fair," but some of it is that if we just dump all the food together, we end up spending a lot more.  If I tell my husband, "Hey, you spent $60 at restaurants last month" he will make a concerted effort to cut that down.  If I just said, "Hey, we spent way too much on food," then it's less clear how to cut spending.   

We keep our heat set to 57 at night, and 62 during the day when I'm working from home.  When everyone is home, it's at 67.  Sometimes we turn it up to 68 if we're feeling reckless.  During the summer, we rarely use the air conditioning, but when we do, it's set for 78.