Baby Next Year - Housing Question in NYC

[MrFire22]

All:

I live with my wife and small dog. We have a 1 bedroom apartment in NYC for $2K a month in a nice neighborhood that's very safe. Our apartment is rent-stabilized - meaning its an older building that they can't raise the rent more than 2-4% (NYC counsel votes on this each year). It’s a pretty big 1 bedroom for NYC standards at 750 SQ Feet.  We love the neighborhood and the apartment building. Very few apartments in our neighborhood that allow pets and we live by a laundromat and supermarket.  We are also on the 1st floor. (i.e. no walkup).

Anyway, we are expecting a baby girl next year. Prices in the neighborhood have skyrocketed since we signed our lease 2 years ago. A 2BD is going for $3K+ and not near the subway. We are on track to FIRE within 3-4 years and we plan to live abroad. My mom lives 30 mins away and has volunteered to help us with childcare. (Mon-Thursday). She is going to stay with us 4 days a week.  This will help us avoid paying for day care which is like $2k a month. I'm going to get a car to help bring her back and forth.

My plan is to convert our rather large living room into a bedroom (kind of like a Studio). So that my mom can sleep here during the week. Once our daughter is old enough, we will either be ready to move aboard, or I'll convert our bedroom into our daughter's room and our living room will be used by my wife I. I can get a panel divider so it feels like a separate room even or even a pressurized wall installed for like $1K.

Thoughts on our plan? I think staying here would make sense fiscally and we live a block away from a nice park so our daughter can play there and get her energy out. Part of the reason to FIRE is to be able to spend more time with her =)

[snic]

You haven't (yet?) pointed out any potential negatives of staying. If the only negative is the cramped quarters, why not try it out for a few months after the baby is born and see how it works? If you keep in mind that it's only a few years, it might help when it starts to feel crowded. And keep in mind that 750 sq ft is considered PLENTY for a family of 3 in many parts of the world (although adding a live-in grandmother would make it considerably tighter, even for just a few days per week).

[Dreamer40]

I would find that space tight for 3 adults, a baby, and a dog. My sleep would likely suffer. But it’s worth a try to see how it goes.

[MayDay]

I agree that trying it is a great idea. We loved in a 2 bedroom sears kit house that clocked in at ~800 sq ft when our kids were 2 and 4. Layout and usage of space is key. Worst case, you abandon plan A and try something new if it doesn't work. A lot probably depends on the baby and you can't predict that.

[Freedomin5]

It’s definitely doable. We did it when DD was born, in an apartment that was around 500 square feet. It was tight, but not terribly uncomfortable.

[Metalcat]

Great plan!

This is so nice to read, normally we get endless threads saying "we're having a baby, we *obviously* can't possibly live in our smaller but affordable home anymore."

Usually we're having to tell people to stay put, so it's great to see someone come here and propose exactly that.

[MrFire22]

Thank you everyone for encouragement. This is also really only going to the the setup from when my daughter is age 2-3. The first year of her life my wife and I are going to alternate paternity/maternity leave and we should have the first year covered. Then year 3, my daughter will be eligible for 3K school.  And around when she's 4, we will likely being firing anyway! 

[charis]

I think it's a great idea if you take precautions for making sure everyone gets enough sleep.  I could never sleep through the kids crying as babies when they were on the same floor as me because I'm a very light sleeper.  White noise, ear plugs, and an adult napping schedule is key with a newborn or fussy baby.

[Cassie]

I know a family in a similar situation in nyc that had 2 kids of the opposite sex and lived in a one bedroom forever. The kids got the bedroom and eventually as the kids grew up they put a divider down the middle. They both had good jobs but it was too cheap to ever give up.

[Esquinkle]

I live in Brooklyn and have two kids. When I was pregnant with our first, we were living in a large studio apartment. We stayed there until the baby was 1 years old, before moving into a two bedroom. It's absolutely possible and we did not find it difficult. Our baby was a pretty champion sleeper, which helped. I would defer any decisions until the baby is here, and encourage you to stay in your current apartment at least for the first year. Ground level is also a huge benefit because of the stroller. Fwiw, our baby slept in a pack & play for the first year for space reasons, and she is a happy and healthy 5 year old today.

That being said, I would not have wanted my mom to be sleeping at our apartment 4 nights a week. It would have been very tough on us and also on her. If she's sleeping in the living room, she may not feel comfortable telling you to essentially go to bed so she can sleep, and you have nowhere to hang out other than the bedroom. Have you spoken to her about this plan? A 30 minute commute does not seem that long, especially if you and your wife are able to shift your work schedules so one of you starts earlier and ends earlier, thereby reducing the amount of time that grandma would have to be on duty. Luckily there is plenty of time before any of this will actually come into play, but it bears thinking about.

Congratulations and good luck! (Also, the 3K program is not universal and is in fact getting cut by Adams, so I wouldn't necessarily rely on it!)

[Freedomin5]

DH used to hold newborn DD and walk the hallways (or outside if the weather was nice) when she was crying. He would walk her until she calmed down or fell asleep. That way, the people in the apartment could sleep if they needed sleep.

[MrFire22]

I live in Brooklyn and have two kids. When I was pregnant with our first, we were living in a large studio apartment. We stayed there until the baby was 1 years old, before moving into a two bedroom. It's absolutely possible and we did not find it difficult. Our baby was a pretty champion sleeper, which helped. I would defer any decisions until the baby is here, and encourage you to stay in your current apartment at least for the first year. Ground level is also a huge benefit because of the stroller. Fwiw, our baby slept in a pack & play for the first year for space reasons, and she is a happy and healthy 5 year old today.

That being said, I would not have wanted my mom to be sleeping at our apartment 4 nights a week. It would have been very tough on us and also on her. If she's sleeping in the living room, she may not feel comfortable telling you to essentially go to bed so she can sleep, and you have nowhere to hang out other than the bedroom. Have you spoken to her about this plan? A 30 minute commute does not seem that long, especially if you and your wife are able to shift your work schedules so one of you starts earlier and ends earlier, thereby reducing the amount of time that grandma would have to be on duty. Luckily there is plenty of time before any of this will actually come into play, but it bears thinking about.

Congratulations and good luck! (Also, the 3K program is not universal and is in fact getting cut by Adams, so I wouldn't necessarily rely on it!)

Yes, I was reading about that online re: 3K. Hopefully the program is still there or returns back to being universal by the time my daughter is ready. There is such a need for it .

[FireLane]

Speaking as an NYC resident, I think this is a solid plan. If your neighborhood is good and your cost of living is low, I would absolutely hold on to that.

I live in a garden apartment in Queens, in a development where all the apartments are around 800 square feet and either one or two bedrooms. I know families who have two and even three kids in a space that size. I'm sure it's a tight squeeze, but they make it work.

It's worth remembering that 800-1000 square feet was the average size of all houses in the U.S. until the Baby Boom. The idea that every child needs their own bedroom is a very modern notion.

Also, there's a Mustachian bonus: A small living space forces you to live a more minimalist lifestyle and think carefully about what you really need. You can't buy unnecessary crap when you literally have nowhere to put it.

[Metalcat]

Speaking as an NYC resident, I think this is a solid plan. If your neighborhood is good and your cost of living is low, I would absolutely hold on to that.

I live in a garden apartment in Queens, in a development where all the apartments are around 800 square feet and either one or two bedrooms. I know families who have two and even three kids in a space that size. I'm sure it's a tight squeeze, but they make it work.

It's worth remembering that 800-1000 square feet was the average size of all houses in the U.S. until the Baby Boom. The idea that every child needs their own bedroom is a very modern notion.

Also, there's a Mustachian bonus: A small living space forces you to live a more minimalist lifestyle and think carefully about what you really need. You can't buy unnecessary crap when you literally have nowhere to put it.

Yep, my summer home is just under 800sqft and it housed families with ~5 kids for generations since it was built over a hundred years ago.

My neighbour grew up in it and shared a 8*7 bedroom with 2 brothers.

[Fomerly known as something]

Speaking as an NYC resident, I think this is a solid plan. If your neighborhood is good and your cost of living is low, I would absolutely hold on to that.

I live in a garden apartment in Queens, in a development where all the apartments are around 800 square feet and either one or two bedrooms. I know families who have two and even three kids in a space that size. I'm sure it's a tight squeeze, but they make it work.

It's worth remembering that 800-1000 square feet was the average size of all houses in the U.S. until the Baby Boom. The idea that every child needs their own bedroom is a very modern notion.

Also, there's a Mustachian bonus: A small living space forces you to live a more minimalist lifestyle and think carefully about what you really need. You can't buy unnecessary crap when you literally have nowhere to put it.

Yep, my summer home is just under 800sqft and it housed families with ~5 kids for generations since it was built over a hundred years ago.

My neighbour grew up in it and shared a 8*7 bedroom with 2 brothers.

Starting my career in NYC with my 650 sq ft apartment was the best thing that happened to me financially.  It totally broke me of my well you need 2000 sq ft because suburbia. 

[Metalcat]

Speaking as an NYC resident, I think this is a solid plan. If your neighborhood is good and your cost of living is low, I would absolutely hold on to that.

I live in a garden apartment in Queens, in a development where all the apartments are around 800 square feet and either one or two bedrooms. I know families who have two and even three kids in a space that size. I'm sure it's a tight squeeze, but they make it work.

It's worth remembering that 800-1000 square feet was the average size of all houses in the U.S. until the Baby Boom. The idea that every child needs their own bedroom is a very modern notion.

Also, there's a Mustachian bonus: A small living space forces you to live a more minimalist lifestyle and think carefully about what you really need. You can't buy unnecessary crap when you literally have nowhere to put it.

Yep, my summer home is just under 800sqft and it housed families with ~5 kids for generations since it was built over a hundred years ago.

My neighbour grew up in it and shared a 8*7 bedroom with 2 brothers.

Starting my career in NYC with my 650 sq ft apartment was the best thing that happened to me financially.  It totally broke me of my well you need 2000 sq ft because suburbia.

Lol, I don't know that I've ever lived in 2000 sqft and I've lived in over 40 places in my life.

[Shuchong]

There is a whole industry in NYC that puts in temporary walls/doors, etc.  I think a few of the posters above don't realize how solid pressurized walls can be.  Those walls plus a white noise machine and MIL should have plenty of privacy.

As someone who had a rent stabilized apartment in Queens once upon a time: they're great deals and tough to give up (I only did so because I moved out of the city entirely -- would have kept that sucker forever otherwise.)  By the time I moved, I was basically FI, and the apartment was a large part of that.  Sounds like that is your plan as well... it's a solid one!

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

How big is the bedroom? Will it comfortably fit a crib and your bed- I'm assuming that baby will bunk with you when Grandma is staying?

We started to feel like we were disturbing our baby when she was only about six months old. BUT- a Slumber Pod might be a godsend if your space permits. My niece used one on vacation and was really happy with it. (My niece is the mom, not the baby.)

You might consider making the living room YOUR bedroom when Grandma is not staying. I lived in a 1 bedroom that was smaller (565 square feet) when my boys were like four and five. They had the bedroom and I treated the rest of the apartment like my own "studio apartment."

I'm not a New Yorker so I will take everyone's word for it that this seems reasonable by NYC standards! Much might depend on Grandma's temperament!

Congrats on upcoming baby!

[ricelife]

Wow congrats! Plan sounds good to me and I have a 2 year toddler. Baby girl might need to get out more by the time she is walking (around 12 months) but with your neighbourhood there will be plenty of fun options for her.

Only thing that would be kind of weird for me is the mother in law staying 4 days per week. Are you able to get her her own private space? I dunno if the living room thing would make her and you feel comfortable long term