Author Topic: Baby's last name dilemma  (Read 31197 times)

Frugal D

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #50 on: June 09, 2016, 05:42:19 PM »
Hyphenating is a good indication of how horrible a parent you will be because you couldn't swallow your own pride and do what's best for your child. You'll probably also live through your child and do other things outlined in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLLP5eWeJIA
« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 05:55:56 PM by Frugal D »

Bucksandreds

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #51 on: June 09, 2016, 05:49:22 PM »
Is this a joke? Society dictates 'normal' is to have the father's last name.  If you want, use the mother's maiden name as the middle name. Don't get your kids picked on. It's hard enough as it is on the school's playground. Don't make your kid an easy target.

Captain FIRE

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #52 on: June 09, 2016, 05:56:21 PM »
I think everyone should have the same last name in a family, it's going to make everything much less confusing. Since I'm a traditional type person, that would be the husband's name.  When people want to be non-traditional about last name stuff, they run into issues and drama like this.  Not worth it in my opinion.

Yay for paternalism?  I'm glad to see that you contributed some meaningful insight to the author's question.

The question was "How do you choose a last name?"

The answer "We like tradition and the reduction of confusion, and therefore chose to go with the paternal name"  is a valid straight answer to the OP's question.  Equally valid to any other posting here, and a more common answer to boot.

Actually no that was NOT the question.  The question is (emphasis added): How did you resolve the issue if you and your spouse did not change your/their last name on marriage, and you both wanted your own last name for your baby?  This very clearly should take off the table any discussion of what should have been done in the past regarding parent names (which was not something either of us wanted anyways). 

Captain FIRE

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #53 on: June 09, 2016, 06:04:16 PM »
Hyphenating is a good indication of how horrible a parent you will be because you couldn't swallow your own pride and do what's best for your child. You'll probably also live through your child and do other things outlined in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLLP5eWeJIA

Err, well if you go back and read the post, one of us "insisting" on a name.  The other wants to either discuss so we come to agreement, compromise (merge names), or decide randomly.  It rather seems to me you ought to be lecturing the other one in this partnership...

(I'm also totally unclear as to how a debate over names equals not doing what's best for a child.  That a completely illogical leap there.)

Frugal D

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #54 on: June 09, 2016, 06:26:39 PM »
Hyphenating is a good indication of how horrible a parent you will be because you couldn't swallow your own pride and do what's best for your child. You'll probably also live through your child and do other things outlined in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLLP5eWeJIA

Err, well if you go back and read the post, one of us "insisting" on a name.  The other wants to either discuss so we come to agreement, compromise (merge names), or decide randomly.  It rather seems to me you ought to be lecturing the other one in this partnership...

(I'm also totally unclear as to how a debate over names equals not doing what's best for a child.  That a completely illogical leap there.)

Sorry - wasn't aimed at you as I didn't even think you were suggesting hyphenating. More aimed at anyone who was suggesting hyphenating.

That said, I don't think it's terribly illogical to jump from name debates to what's best for a child. Naming your child is the first opportunity you have to impact them in a pretty meaningful way so it does tend to have at least a little "best for the child" component. 

HappierAtHome

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #55 on: June 09, 2016, 06:46:21 PM »
We agreed on this (prior to marriage) using logic: one last name has already been 'passed down' to a sibling's children, and the other hasn't, so we'll use the one that is yet to be 'passed down'*. Seems fair to us.

Otherwise, we would have flipped a coin.

I know people who flipped a coin with their spouse to decide who would take whose last name. I like that approach if you want to have the same name as each other and your kids, but aren't into the traditional/patrilineal side of things. We didn't care about all having the same name, so no coin flipping was needed.

*It has since been passed down, but in an altered form, so we agree that our logic still holds.

SilveradoBojangles

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #56 on: June 09, 2016, 06:47:40 PM »
Almost all of my female friends have kept their name after marriage, but as they have begun to have children their kids universally get the dad's name, which I have found interesting. I suspect it has something to do with the fact that unrecognized paternity/single motherhood still carries a social stigma, even for highly educated women who have bucked tradition in other ways.

I don't know what we'll do if we have kids. On the one hand, my name is interesting and melodious (people always compliment me on it) while still providing some level of anonymity (unlike others, I don't see the value in having a name that can be fruitfully googled). His name has more consonants than is optimal, but he likes it because it ties him to a grandfather who did something cool once. Our friends jokingly refer to us by combo names, and it sounds like someone hiccuped and sneezed at the same time, so that's probably out for us. I think we may have to flip a coin.

tobitonic

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #57 on: June 09, 2016, 06:54:40 PM »
How did you resolve the issue if you and your spouse did not change your/their last name on marriage, and you both wanted your own last name for your baby?

I'm actually not pushing my last name, rather I want an equitable way of deciding, such as flipping a coin, basing the last name on the baby gender, or creating a new one.  But my usually fair-minded spouse broached the topic last night by "insisting" on it rather than discussing it.  I can see this going downhill rapidly and I'm trying to avoid that.

If you can't agree with each other because your husband doesn't want to compromise, you're unlikely to convince him by bringing in suggestions from a thread you started on the Internet. I'd go back to talking in person, or perhaps try a counselor.

tobitonic

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #58 on: June 09, 2016, 07:33:11 PM »
How did you resolve the issue if you and your spouse did not change your/their last name on marriage, and you both wanted your own last name for your baby?

I'm actually not pushing my last name, rather I want an equitable way of deciding, such as flipping a coin, basing the last name on the baby gender, or creating a new one.  But my usually fair-minded spouse broached the topic last night by "insisting" on it rather than discussing it.  I can see this going downhill rapidly and I'm trying to avoid that.

If you can't agree with each other because your husband doesn't want to compromise, you're unlikely to convince him by bringing in suggestions from a thread you started on the Internet. I'd go back to talking in person, or perhaps try a counselor.
Funny to me how everyone assumed the OP was female (I personally thought male) and part of a heterosexual couple (personally thought it could be either).

It's a pretty safe bet in most of these discussions that the man is the one insisting on having his name being passed down, and is the one who is less likely to compromise and listen to his spouse, because those are both stereotypical male behaviors.

Also, a quick trip through the OP's posting history makes it clear that this is an issue that has bothered her for a while, and while she attempted to hide gender in this thread, has been quite open about it in the past.

Ladychips

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #59 on: June 09, 2016, 08:03:08 PM »
It pisses me off when I make gender assumptions...I was shocked (SHOCKED) when I realized the OP is female.  Oops.

I had a friend who gave her child her birth name as a first name...and it's lovely.  But that doesn't really solve the issue.  I'm sorry that I don't have a better contribution.  Would it be possible to go to some kind of mediation?  Is that a thing?

Lmoot

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #60 on: June 09, 2016, 08:16:35 PM »
End the relationship and you both marry someone who already has your same last name. The baby does make things a bit difficult though.

I always wondered what hyphenated-last-name people did if they wanted to keep their name. Do they triple hyphenate? Is the baby's triple hyphenated? What if the baby also wants to do the same. Does it become an infinite string of hyphens? Could one just make their last name into a hyphen? Or a family symbol, like Prince?

Fun Fact: Siamangs have a song between mates, which they teach to their young. When the babies grow up, they combine their song with their mate's family song, and teach the new song to their young. And so it goes. Do that.

terran

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #61 on: June 09, 2016, 08:18:03 PM »
My wife took my last and we're not having kids anyway, but something she has found is that there are some real advantages to moving "up" in the alphabet such as being listed first on co-authored papers and conference panels (in a field where people try to be nice/democratic -- if she was a hardcore academic my understanding is that first author privileges are very prescribed), having an easier time finding her name tag at things that have name tags, etc. Growing up I know I also ended up first for all kinds of things based on a name early in the alphabet. So you might make the decision alphabetically, especially if one of you is in the first 2 or 3 letters.

Captain FIRE

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #62 on: June 09, 2016, 08:23:10 PM »
Funny to me how everyone assumed the OP was female (I personally thought male) and part of a heterosexual couple (personally thought it could be either).

It's a pretty safe bet in most of these discussions that the man is the one insisting on having his name being passed down, and is the one who is less likely to compromise and listen to his spouse, because those are both stereotypical male behaviors.

Also, a quick trip through the OP's posting history makes it clear that this is an issue that has bothered her for a while, and while she attempted to hide gender in this thread, has been quite open about it in the past.
ah but what if it's 2 men in a relationship and both insist on their last name? Or 2 women? I didn't read the OP's past posts so didn't know their gender or partners gender so didn't want to make assumptions. However I did think male because of their forum name which was bad and very gender biased on my part (smacks self upside the head and stands in corner shamed faced ;-))

ETA I do think many women hold just as strong of a desire to pass on their name as men do.

I too found it interesting at the assumptions that were made and almost pointed it out, particularly with tobitonic's post, but decided to ignore it.

I deliberately posted using gender-free language, so as not to bias the discussion, because in my opinion, that shouldn't matter in the discussion.  (That's the crux of the issue, actually.)  I contemplated deleting a few prior posts that give away gender, but decided not to "hide" it that way.  If someone cared to dig, they could find out.  <shrug>  But at least my introduction would be as neutral as possible.

And actually, although I posted previously to a thread on this topic, this issue for hasn't "bothered" me personally previously as you suggest.  By that, I mean it was just a view I held rather than something that affected my life, with which I wrestled.  Frankly, it came out of the blue to discover last night that my husband is acting as a bully and a neanderthal on this topic rather than the open and fair-minded person he's always been, so much such that I actually thought he was joking for much of the conversation.  I just didn't thinking posting that particular slant would aid a fruitful discussion.  You're probably seeing it as significant because the topic crops up as a post or two out of only a few I've made under this username, but I'm actually a long-time poster (~1000+ posts) that changed user names for personal reasons.

Captain FIRE

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #63 on: June 09, 2016, 08:34:41 PM »
My wife took my last and we're not having kids anyway, but something she has found is that there are some real advantages to moving "up" in the alphabet such as being listed first on co-authored papers and conference panels (in a field where people try to be nice/democratic -- if she was a hardcore academic my understanding is that first author privileges are very prescribed), having an easier time finding her name tag at things that have name tags, etc. Growing up I know I also ended up first for all kinds of things based on a name early in the alphabet. So you might make the decision alphabetically, especially if one of you is in the first 2 or 3 letters.

I made that argument last night (it favors my last name).  It was rejected.

Let's see, reasons I've given for my last name having a fair shake:
- Alphabetical benefits
- My last name is more historical given that his was created when that part of the family immigrated to the US
- He doesn't like his dad all that much, given his dad abused his mom prior to the divorce and there are questions as to whether he has abused his stepmom.  My last name comes through my father's side, and he, on the other hand, is a good person and is officially recognized as a hero.
- My last name is much less common so we'd be sure to get the gmail address for it :)

I have not pointed out this one (suggested by this thread):
- His brother has passed on their last name.  My brother isn't having kids.  (There are others outside of immediate family though that would be passing it on.)

Captain FIRE

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #64 on: June 09, 2016, 08:36:50 PM »
It pisses me off when I make gender assumptions...I was shocked (SHOCKED) when I realized the OP is female.  Oops.

:) I like sailing.

Dicey

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #65 on: June 09, 2016, 08:46:45 PM »
My wife took my last and we're not having kids anyway, but something she has found is that there are some real advantages to moving "up" in the alphabet such as being listed first on co-authored papers and conference panels (in a field where people try to be nice/democratic -- if she was a hardcore academic my understanding is that first author privileges are very prescribed), having an easier time finding her name tag at things that have name tags, etc. Growing up I know I also ended up first for all kinds of things based on a name early in the alphabet. So you might make the decision alphabetically, especially if one of you is in the first 2 or 3 letters.
Oh, this hits close to home. "C" is the initial of my maiden name, which I carried for 54 years. DH (established 10-11-12) has a last name very, very close to the end of the alphabet. I never had a middle name, so I tacked his on to the end of my two. Half my crap has my birth name, half my married name. I joke if I want what they're passing out, I use my maiden name. If I don't, I use my married name. So far, so good.

teen persuasion

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #66 on: June 09, 2016, 09:04:08 PM »
Interesting discussion.  I may not be of much help, but I'd try to step back and consider picking the best name for your child, before prioritizing whose name gets top billing.

My maiden name is fairly unique, which I liked, but beginning with a "Z" seems to scramble people's ability to pronounce or spell it, and has the disadvantage of always placing you at the end of the list.  Even my very traditional parents sometimes used mom's common maiden name for convenience (ordering pizza for takeout, for example).  So I was content to take my DH's last name - earlier in the alphabet, fewer letters = easier to spell, but still a bit unique for English speakers.  A drawback was pronunciation - DH's parents had butchered the pronunciation by trying to follow English sound rules.  We decided to use the proper French pronunciation.  It throws people who've never seen it before, but our community all know how to pronounce/spell it now, given our 5 kids' progress thru public school.

When choosing names for each of the kids, we obviously tried out the combos of first/middle/last, and examined initials, too.  We paid attention to nicknames.  Some names that one of us liked, the other vetoed.  We kept thinking.  We incorporated family member names at times, often altered: MIL passed away just before DD3 was born, so we used one of her names (she used both her first and middle names interchangeably) as DD3's middle name.  Another relative's William became Liam in another middle name.

Sometimes traditions are more trouble than they are worth.  DH's family had a tradition that at least the eldest male's first name was Joseph, but middle names varied.  His grandfather's generation were ALL Joseph, and each used his middle name instead.  His father used Joe, and an elder sibling that died in infancy was referred to as "little Joe", so DH became known by his middle name, different from his father's.  His school records only had J. (middle name).  In college, and job hunting later, it became tiresome to explain legal vs preferred name, and he has since reverted to using his first name with everyone new he met.  Family still call him by his middle name, that's how I think of "him", so I have to sometimes think about which name to call him depending on context.  Of course, we followed this tradition with our oldest son, and use his (different) middle name.  He's finding it also a hassle, especially with computer records of all types.  And, of course, people call for "Joe", and it could be either one they want, but neither is truly Jr or Sr.  So we've come to appreciate fairly unique names.

I also tried to choose first names that had multiple nickname possibilities, so the kids could put their own stamp on their name.  My sister did the exact opposite - she dislikes nicknames, so she chose names that couldn't be changed.  I also tried to pick names that would age well - no cutesy kiddie names that wouldn't suit an adult as they matured.

If your last names are not English, what about translating them to their meaning in English, or something else for that matter?  I'm always tickled by Dickensian last names, but I think it is because so many names don't register as words having meaning to us anymore, since they derive from another language.  They are "just names".

I know a family with theme names; mom is a geologist, so the boys are Slate, Stone, Clayton, etc.


What is meaningful to you?  Both of you.  Let that guide you.

teen persuasion

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #67 on: June 09, 2016, 09:13:06 PM »
Forgot to add: when we married and I took DH's last name, I dropped my boring middle name in favor of my maiden name.  I just couldn't let that "Z" initial go, it's useful.

BlueHouse

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #68 on: June 09, 2016, 10:30:56 PM »
If your names are traditional English surnames, I would definitely hyphenate so so that you end with a very posh and elite sounding one ;-)  Something like Legge-Bourke or Glynne-Percy or Egerton-Jones.  Bonus points for incorporating as many silent "e"s as possible...
I always liked John Smith-Smythe (pronounced the same).

Cressida

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #69 on: June 10, 2016, 12:03:03 AM »
My wife took my last and we're not having kids anyway, but something she has found is that there are some real advantages to moving "up" in the alphabet such as being listed first on co-authored papers and conference panels (in a field where people try to be nice/democratic -- if she was a hardcore academic my understanding is that first author privileges are very prescribed), having an easier time finding her name tag at things that have name tags, etc. Growing up I know I also ended up first for all kinds of things based on a name early in the alphabet. So you might make the decision alphabetically, especially if one of you is in the first 2 or 3 letters.

THE STRUGGLE IS REAL.

I don't mean to diss terran or his wife - perhaps there's more to this story - but this has to be one of the hands-down stupidest reasons I've ever heard to keep/change a name, and I've heard some dumb ones.

jac941

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #70 on: June 10, 2016, 12:24:59 AM »
My husband and I debated which last name to use. Finally decided to pick a first name first and then chose the last name that went better with it -- which ended up being his last name. We wanted both kids to have the same last name, so our second automatically got his last name too. Both kids have my last name as a middle name.

My husband made a huge mistake during this process and mentioned to his parents that we were still deciding if our kids would have my or his last name. They flipped out. So don't make that mistake and add another layer of stress to the naming decision. That little "fight" ended up being first time my husband stood up to his parents on a parenting issue (this was his son not theirs and therefore his decision to make -- and he didn't want their opinion thank you very much). Turns out starting that boundary setting nice and early was a good thing to do. But I guess that's straying off topic ...

I also had a woman at work tell me that she who delivers the baby names the baby. Not a bad way to do it either. Of course she was one of the moms in a two mom household so there wasn't a naming tradition that needed to be overcome in that situation.

Beriberi

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #71 on: June 10, 2016, 02:42:00 AM »
We have three kids - Daughter Dadsname, Daughter Momsname, Son Momsname.  We thought we would have two and would alternate names.  All the kids have a middle name that is the other parent's last name. 

When #3 came along, we didn't talk much about naming - I said it mattered to me. He said it didn't really matter to him. Thus, Son Momsname.  Also, I have no family that will hand down my last name (other than my children) - he has 40+ first cousins, many with his last name.

I'm not sure what people perceive as the difficulties of having different last names in one family.  Neither of us have ever had difficulty with school or activities because we have a child that doesn't have the same last name. My kids aren't so very old, but I have traveled outside of the country with them, without any concerns about legality.  I take them to the physician and dentist's offices. I can't imagine a situation (in this century) where there is difficulty because a parent has a different last name than a child.

People who don't know us well probably think we are some kind of divorce/blended family - we each brought our own kids to the table.  I can't see how it matters what those people think of the whole thing. If I wanted to spend energy impressing people who don't know me well, I should start by getting nicer cars. And a bigger house. And nicer clothes.

Also, my name is really difficult (think McKeon). His is fairly simple (like Romney).  What I have found, after a decade of marriage, is that the simple name still needs to be spelled every single time it is given.  So, easy names are not really that much easier.

Butterfingers

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #72 on: June 10, 2016, 03:10:00 AM »
If you marry across cultures (especially when one doesn't use the latin alphabet) this problem becomes easier. My kids have my last name in English, and Mrs Butterfingers' family name in her native tongue. So Jane Butterfingers and John Butterfingers in English, but Lin N'er and Lin Erzi in Mandarin.

So in summary, ditch Mr Captain and find yourself a Chinese husband.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #73 on: June 10, 2016, 05:57:08 AM »
Your situation is standard in Quebec, where women keep their maiden names.  The norm is children get the father's last name, but it is not mandatory.

The old tradition was that children had the mother's maiden name as a middle name, so her last name was not lost.  My father's middle name was his mother's maiden name.

One comment I haven't seen, and that is about the first name.  Please pick the first name as the name you actually use, since modern society ignores middle names.  I use my middle name, but anything official uses my first name - I have finally learned to respond to it in places like the doctor's office or the car license bureau.  Unfortunately I don't think of myself as a "first name" so just switching isn't an option.  Don't do that to your kid.

jac941

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #74 on: June 10, 2016, 06:04:14 AM »
I'm not sure what people perceive as the difficulties of having different last names in one family.

I agree that there aren't really any difficulties with having different last names. Had we really thought that one through, we may have alternated our kids names. But, I didn't really care that much because I have siblings that are 26 yrs younger than me so I figure my family name will probably be passed down through them anyway. Plus there are other cousins and such.

If it had been really important to me, my husband would have definitely supported naming one or both of our kids with my last name. Our kids having his last name wasn't especially important to him. I think the issue for the op is they both want the kid to have their last name. If they're planning to have multiple, alternating is a great compromise. But how do you decide who gets to name first? Just because there's a plan for multiple doesn't mean it'll happen... That first could be the one and only.

ketchup

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #75 on: June 10, 2016, 06:10:49 AM »
My wife took my last and we're not having kids anyway, but something she has found is that there are some real advantages to moving "up" in the alphabet such as being listed first on co-authored papers and conference panels (in a field where people try to be nice/democratic -- if she was a hardcore academic my understanding is that first author privileges are very prescribed), having an easier time finding her name tag at things that have name tags, etc. Growing up I know I also ended up first for all kinds of things based on a name early in the alphabet. So you might make the decision alphabetically, especially if one of you is in the first 2 or 3 letters.
Wow.  I never thought of this. 


....and my girlfriend's name is literally "A**** Aa******"

claire.harris

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #76 on: June 10, 2016, 06:17:34 AM »
Finding this all really interesting, especially as we are unmarried and expecting our first in November.
The route we have chosen to go down is his surname and I get to pick the first names.
The main reason behind our decision is that my dad uses his step-dad's name (and so do I), so I don't feel any affinity/connection to it. My name is much more common (12th in the UK last time I checked), whereas his is much more unusual (though harder to pick names to go with it), so it has the unique gmail factor mentioned above, I love that!

HappyHoya

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #77 on: June 10, 2016, 06:24:37 AM »
Is this a joke? Society dictates 'normal' is to have the father's last name.  If you want, use the mother's maiden name as the middle name. Don't get your kids picked on. It's hard enough as it is on the school's playground. Don't make your kid an easy target.

Since when is this board about going along with what society dictates?
::facepalm::

acorn

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #78 on: June 10, 2016, 06:29:49 AM »
I don't understand why people think hyphenating is a one-generation solution. It's not. If two people with hyphenated names have a child, they can each pick one of the two elements of their last name and combine them to create a new hyphenated version for the child(ren). That's what each of their own parents did, so why not do it again?

This is exactly what the Spanish do.

historienne

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #79 on: June 10, 2016, 07:02:32 AM »
And actually, although I posted previously to a thread on this topic, this issue for hasn't "bothered" me personally previously as you suggest.  By that, I mean it was just a view I held rather than something that affected my life, with which I wrestled.  Frankly, it came out of the blue to discover last night that my husband is acting as a bully and a neanderthal on this topic rather than the open and fair-minded person he's always been, so much such that I actually thought he was joking for much of the conversation. 

I posted our solution (a portmanteau name) earlier, but it might help you to know our decision process as well.  I told my husband that he could pick the last name, on one condition - it could not be just his last name.  So, it could be just my last name, hyphenation, a portmanteau, or an entirely new name.  I did not care, as long as it wasn't just his name.  Giving him so much decision power made it obvious how unreasonable he would have to be to insist on using his name. 

gaja

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #80 on: June 10, 2016, 07:20:06 AM »
My mother kept her name, while the rest of the family had my father's name. It was never any issue while travelling, or in other settings where we needed to be grouped as a family. I kept my name when I got married, considered adding my mother's name, but it is a hassle to spell and type (can't find the correct Nordic letters half the time I try). My kids have "my name" "father's name", and of course they end up using only the last one. We tried sounding them out in both orders before we decided, but it almost became a tongue teezer if my name was last.

Switching to the man's name hasn't been common in Norway for more than a 100 years or so, and it didn't really reach much outside the cities. The norm was to have your first name, your father's or mother's name with a -son or -daughter, and often the name of the farm or place you lived. My grandfather was Martin Hansson [placename]. My great-great-grandfather changed his name when he married, because he moved to the great-great-grandmother's farm. They still do this in Iceland, and a decent amount of people do it in Norway too. My father adds "Martinsson" or the initial M. to his name when he wants to be separated from other people with the same first and last name. I'm not sure whether he has officially registered Martinsson as a middle name or if he just uses it on and off.

If you are a traditional Sami (northern Norway, Sweden, Finland, Russia), your name is more a description of your lineage, sometimes stretching 4-5 generations back. Niljasa-Jovnna Mgg would be Magga; daughter of Jon, granddaugther of Nils. Today, it is often adapted to having a lot of first and middle names, and the name of your main "clan" as a last name. On example that often gets cited is Ante Ante Ante Ante Htta, also known as 4-Ante.

FLBiker

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #81 on: June 10, 2016, 07:26:32 AM »
I think everyone should have the same last name in a family, it's going to make everything much less confusing. Since I'm a traditional type person, that for us was the husband's name.  When people want to be non-traditional about last name stuff, they run into issues and drama like this.  Not worth it in my opinion.

This was our rationale, too.  I (husband) didn't have a strong feeling at the time, but now that we have a kid I like that our family all has the same name.

That said, I love the idea of combining both last names to make a new "family" last name.  I wouldn't hyphenate (for the reasons mentioned above) but I like the "Ellismore" example a lot.

partgypsy

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #82 on: June 10, 2016, 07:36:46 AM »
We agreed on this (prior to marriage) using logic: one last name has already been 'passed down' to a sibling's children, and the other hasn't, so we'll use the one that is yet to be 'passed down'*. Seems fair to us.

Otherwise, we would have flipped a coin.

I know people who flipped a coin with their spouse to decide who would take whose last name. I like that approach if you want to have the same name as each other and your kids, but aren't into the traditional/patrilineal side of things. We didn't care about all having the same name, so no coin flipping was needed.

*It has since been passed down, but in an altered form, so we agree that our logic still holds.
I like this idea, of choosing the name that is most likely to die out, because there are no other relatives naming male children that last name. I kept my last name, and my children took my husband's name, out of convention (though my last name is cooler ; ))

zhelud

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #83 on: June 10, 2016, 07:44:51 AM »
Is this a joke? Society dictates 'normal' is to have the father's last name.  If you want, use the mother's maiden name as the middle name. Don't get your kids picked on. It's hard enough as it is on the school's playground. Don't make your kid an easy target.

Since when is this board about going along with what society dictates?
::facepalm::
+1
It's 2016, nobody gets picked on at the playground for not having their father's last name. 

gaja

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #84 on: June 10, 2016, 07:51:08 AM »
Regarding the "last male" argument: My grandmother was married twice. She got two boys with the first husband before he died, and 6 girls with the next one (my grandfather). He was the only one with his last name, and the two boys decided that the one of them who first got kids would take their stepfather's name. So far so good. But then the girls started marrying: only two of them took their husband's name, the other four kept their own. And nearly all the grandchildren got my grandfather's name. A few of those grandkids who got their father's name at birth have changed it as adults. My grandfather has been dead for 30 years, and his name is now carried by at least 40 people, more every year. Less than 20 percent of those decend through the male line.

TheOldestYoungMan

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #85 on: June 10, 2016, 08:08:00 AM »
Let us assume for a moment that the opinion of society as a whole, doesn't matter.
Let us also assume that there is no standard solution.  Imagine a world where this is the first time this has come up.

Two people are tasked with picking their baby's name.

One says, "I know, we'll name the baby after me!"

The other says, "Hmmm....I would rather we name the baby after me!"

This is an impasse.  To move past it, there are many options.  Literally any decision they come to is a compromise, and so this is ultimately a negotiation.

So I have this advice for the OP, based on the question as asked.

The following are all reasonable pieces to include in a compromise:

1.  Alternative compensation.
2.  Future compensation.
3.  Debt forgiveness.

If it were me, and I had the option to be forgiven for anything in the future, regardless of what it was, I'd pick that, and let the spouse pick the name.

Then go change the name and cash in the forgiveness chit.

Joke!

"You name this one, I name the next one"
"You name this one, You fill out all the paperwork forever"
"You name this one, you have to take them if we ever get divorced"
"You name this one, I never wash dishes again"
"I name this one, you get to pick our vacation destinations from now on"
"I name this one, you don't have to be nice to my mother anymore"

I don't know your situation, but there's probably something they want that you don't want as much as you want this.

And then there's the idea of an elaborate contest with independent judges.  Maybe you both tackle a new skill or see who can do the most pushups after 6 weeks or something.  To the victor goes the naming rights.  Beware the strength of pregnant women though.

Maybe put the naming rights on ebay.  This child brought to you by Mr. Clean!

As far as my personal opinion goes, there is a default way to do that, and it is name after the father (in the US anyways).  Not naming it after the father isn't "rejecting the patriarchy" it is just "causing a lot of confusion in the future for no purpose."

As someone who got to answer questions about his name his whole life, please don't do that to your child.  They will never forgive you for it.  It is a stumbling block every time they meet a new person.  The most obvious choice is the right choice for the last name.  The first name can be any random bullshit and then you can call them any random bullshit.  The last name is going into a zillion different databases and there will be extra paperwork at every stage of their life, extra questions asked, extra hassle, all for *literally* nothing.

Jessamine

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #86 on: June 10, 2016, 09:02:35 AM »
For what it's worth, a former colleague of mine kept her maiden name at marriage, but then had to go through the process of changing it after the birth of their child because the company would not allow her to add the child to her health insurance policy because they had different last names.

Captain FIRE

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #87 on: June 10, 2016, 09:03:18 AM »
As someone who got to answer questions about his name his whole life, please don't do that to your child.  They will never forgive you for it.  It is a stumbling block every time they meet a new person.  The most obvious choice is the right choice for the last name.  The first name can be any random bullshit and then you can call them any random bullshit.  The last name is going into a zillion different databases and there will be extra paperwork at every stage of their life, extra questions asked, extra hassle, all for *literally* nothing.

Actually, I have an unusual pronunciation for a first name.  Every 3-4 years someone foreign pronounces it correctly on the first try (it's never an American).  I've even had to argue with people over it (it's MY name, you would think I'd know.)  It's not that it's so weird, it actually makes sense to pronounce it this way, it's just that everyone's been conditioned here to say it differently.  So I get the effects of "different" name.  You know what?  I actually LIKE having a slightly different and unique name.  It's the first minute of an ice breaker for an interview.  It means unlike my sister, I didn't share the same name as five (yes 5!) people in my class.  So I hear this argument - and with full knowledge and personal experience - I reject it.  It's not that big of a deal and there are compensatory benefits. 

I would also like to say that this make no sense to me: "The last name is going into a zillion different databases and there will be extra paperwork at every stage of their life, extra questions asked, extra hassle, all for *literally* nothing."  I mean this seriously - what difference does using a different parent name mean for the paperwork/questions/hassle?  First, there are many blended families these days, so most teachers would just likely make the erroneous assumption that that's the case, and they can be quickly educated if needed.  As already pointed out above, traveling internationally with kids already likely requires bringing a passport if traveling with just one parent.  And later in life, no one's even going to know or care - everyone just knows you as Smith and never knew you might have been Johnson.

We'll also need to agree to disagree over your assertion that it's over nothing.  In part, the arguments raised here about there being such as stigma associated with it makes that something I would want to combat.  In part I feel both parent names are deserving of equal respect and should be treated as equally valid choices. In part, I dislike living in a world where this equality of consideration of both parents is considered such a radical change and inspires such negativity.  (And if the last name is "nothing" then it shouldn't be such an issue that both names be considered.  It's easy enough to think of it as nothing if it's maintaining a status quo you support.  For an extreme example, most whites considered segregated schools "nothing" at one point and not harmful.)

That all said, thank you for the rest of your post, I found it interesting reading.

Captain FIRE

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #88 on: June 10, 2016, 09:04:34 AM »
For what it's worth, a former colleague of mine kept her maiden name at marriage, but then had to go through the process of changing it after the birth of their child because the company would not allow her to add the child to her health insurance policy because they had different last names.

Interesting.  I'd be very surprised that they can legally deny her an employment benefit like that.

sis

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #89 on: June 10, 2016, 09:04:54 AM »
If you marry across cultures (especially when one doesn't use the latin alphabet) this problem becomes easier. My kids have my last name in English, and Mrs Butterfingers' family name in her native tongue. So Jane Butterfingers and John Butterfingers in English, but Lin N'er and Lin Erzi in Mandarin.

So in summary, ditch Mr Captain and find yourself a Chinese husband.

I'm not the OP, but I sent this idea to my Chinese husband and he likes it.  We were thinking of using my last name for college admissions purposes in any case. :-)

Bucksandreds

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #90 on: June 10, 2016, 10:01:42 AM »
Is this a joke? Society dictates 'normal' is to have the father's last name.  If you want, use the mother's maiden name as the middle name. Don't get your kids picked on. It's hard enough as it is on the school's playground. Don't make your kid an easy target.

Since when is this board about going along with what society dictates?
::facepalm::
+1
It's 2016, nobody gets picked on at the playground for not having their father's last name.

I guess it depends on your socioeconomic status/that of the school you're at.  I can promise you, people still do get picked on for that in places where the vast majority of kids come from 2 parent houses.  Out of my 15-20 nearest neighbors, 2 of them are houses without a husband and wife living together.  I would also wager that those children have their father's last name.  I didn't say it should be the law.  If your kids are going to schools where the vast majority of the other kids have their father's last name, consider the implications.

TheOldestYoungMan

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #91 on: June 10, 2016, 10:29:12 AM »
Ah, right, so I don't enjoy any forced interactions.  So there are many forced interactions.  One of the ways I conduct myself is that I want to get through the exchange as quickly as possible.

So where you see "quickly educating the teacher" as a non-thing, to me it's a lifetime tax on my time.  Instead of a given conversation being over (which is always my goal) it just goes on, and on, and on.

You might not mind correcting people's pronunciation, I just endure people saying it incorrectly.  I don't want the interaction, it doesn't have any value to me.

I don't know what percentage of people are like me, but I do see how many eyes roll whenever someone has a weird name.

These sorts of conversations usually end up with a "it shouldn't matter" vs. "well in the world you actually live in it does matter."

I'll agree with you wholeheartedly that it shouldn't matter, and just say that fighting it your whole life to make it the world you want is all well and good, forcibly conscripting your child into that fight is a choice.  It is absolutely yours to make, I pass no judgement either way.

But if your child is born with my temperament, they will roll their eyes at you when you explain how not following the status-quo here was important.

Likely they were going to roll their eyes at something.  So avoiding that probably isn't a worthwhile goal either.  Ultimately, names don't affect their outcomes, at least according to freakonomics.

The good thing is the kid has basically no rights so you can do whatever you want.  I also see the value in giving a kid a terrible name, because dad trolling.

Quince

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #92 on: June 10, 2016, 10:33:07 AM »
Our hyphenated kid has gotten all kinds of questions about his admittedly unusual first name, and none at all about his hyphenated last name. I had a hyphenate friend in high school and no-one cared that his name was hyphenated.  I changed my name when young due to remarriage of my mom and never got crap for it, or for having a single parent, or...anything. Trying to figure out what throwback region of the western world a person lives in to have kids being teased because of not carrying ONLY THEIR FATHER'S LAST NAME.

CheapskateWife

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #93 on: June 10, 2016, 10:39:29 AM »
As far as explaining your family name differences to teachers and other folks you interact with; I simply retort with "I let him keep his maiden name when we got married."

:P

notactiveanymore

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #94 on: June 10, 2016, 10:50:33 AM »
In this scenario, I prefer the options of either 1) hyphenating or 2) both with no hyphen.

I think from a sibling perspective, I'd definitely want to have the same last name(s) as my full siblings. I also think it really helps with any of the above described confusion when you say, I'm J Smith, this is my partner K Jones, and this is our child L Smith-Jones. That's pretty easy and it's clear the child belongs (legally at least) to both of you.

As for whose name should be first/last, I fully support your coin flipping idea. So long as it's not a tongue twister in either order, that really seems like the fairest suggestion.

Also, kids can decide when they grow up what they want to do with their last name if they get married and/or have kids. None of us picked our last names either, so it's not like the decision is all that different with a hyphen thrown in.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 10:53:27 AM by theotherelise »

sis

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #95 on: June 10, 2016, 11:16:16 AM »
Ah, right, so I don't enjoy any forced interactions.  So there are many forced interactions.  One of the ways I conduct myself is that I want to get through the exchange as quickly as possible.

So where you see "quickly educating the teacher" as a non-thing, to me it's a lifetime tax on my time.  Instead of a given conversation being over (which is always my goal) it just goes on, and on, and on.

You might not mind correcting people's pronunciation, I just endure people saying it incorrectly.  I don't want the interaction, it doesn't have any value to me.

I don't know what percentage of people are like me, but I do see how many eyes roll whenever someone has a weird name.

These sorts of conversations usually end up with a "it shouldn't matter" vs. "well in the world you actually live in it does matter."

I'll agree with you wholeheartedly that it shouldn't matter, and just say that fighting it your whole life to make it the world you want is all well and good, forcibly conscripting your child into that fight is a choice.  It is absolutely yours to make, I pass no judgement either way.

But if your child is born with my temperament, they will roll their eyes at you when you explain how not following the status-quo here was important.

Likely they were going to roll their eyes at something.  So avoiding that probably isn't a worthwhile goal either.  Ultimately, names don't affect their outcomes, at least according to freakonomics.

The good thing is the kid has basically no rights so you can do whatever you want.  I also see the value in giving a kid a terrible name, because dad trolling.


I grew up with a different last name than my mother and than two of my siblings.  Literally I can remember only one time in my entire life where it was an issue - when my mom had to pick me up from the nurses office in first grade because I was sick and they gave her issues because her last name was different than mine.  I calmly explained to the nurse that was indeed my mother and to calm down.  There's no need for everyone in the family to have the same last name.  I think in modern times really mixed families are kind of normal and most people don't care at all.

sis

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #96 on: June 10, 2016, 11:22:28 AM »
As someone who got to answer questions about his name his whole life, please don't do that to your child.  They will never forgive you for it.  It is a stumbling block every time they meet a new person.  The most obvious choice is the right choice for the last name.  The first name can be any random bullshit and then you can call them any random bullshit.  The last name is going into a zillion different databases and there will be extra paperwork at every stage of their life, extra questions asked, extra hassle, all for *literally* nothing.

Actually, I have an unusual pronunciation for a first name.  Every 3-4 years someone foreign pronounces it correctly on the first try (it's never an American).  I've even had to argue with people over it (it's MY name, you would think I'd know.)  It's not that it's so weird, it actually makes sense to pronounce it this way, it's just that everyone's been conditioned here to say it differently.  So I get the effects of "different" name.  You know what?  I actually LIKE having a slightly different and unique name.  It's the first minute of an ice breaker for an interview.  It means unlike my sister, I didn't share the same name as five (yes 5!) people in my class.  So I hear this argument - and with full knowledge and personal experience - I reject it.  It's not that big of a deal and there are compensatory benefits. 

I would also like to say that this make no sense to me: "The last name is going into a zillion different databases and there will be extra paperwork at every stage of their life, extra questions asked, extra hassle, all for *literally* nothing."  I mean this seriously - what difference does using a different parent name mean for the paperwork/questions/hassle?  First, there are many blended families these days, so most teachers would just likely make the erroneous assumption that that's the case, and they can be quickly educated if needed.  As already pointed out above, traveling internationally with kids already likely requires bringing a passport if traveling with just one parent.  And later in life, no one's even going to know or care - everyone just knows you as Smith and never knew you might have been Johnson.

We'll also need to agree to disagree over your assertion that it's over nothing.  In part, the arguments raised here about there being such as stigma associated with it makes that something I would want to combat.  In part I feel both parent names are deserving of equal respect and should be treated as equally valid choices. In part, I dislike living in a world where this equality of consideration of both parents is considered such a radical change and inspires such negativity.  (And if the last name is "nothing" then it shouldn't be such an issue that both names be considered.  It's easy enough to think of it as nothing if it's maintaining a status quo you support.  For an extreme example, most whites considered segregated schools "nothing" at one point and not harmful.)

That all said, thank you for the rest of your post, I found it interesting reading.

Captain FIRE - you'd love my older brother.  He took his wife's last name when they got married.  Anyway, I'd say continue on with the good fight if it is worth it to you but at some point you have to pick and choose your battles.  I've certainly had many conversations with my husband about this already.  He was okay with me not taking his last name upon marriage but I think he does want our kids to have his last name.  I have leverage in that he wants kids way more than I do, so I could always condition having children with getting naming rights ;-)  (Is that insane?)

Frugal D

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #97 on: June 10, 2016, 11:35:17 AM »
As someone who got to answer questions about his name his whole life, please don't do that to your child.  They will never forgive you for it.  It is a stumbling block every time they meet a new person.  The most obvious choice is the right choice for the last name.  The first name can be any random bullshit and then you can call them any random bullshit.  The last name is going into a zillion different databases and there will be extra paperwork at every stage of their life, extra questions asked, extra hassle, all for *literally* nothing.

Actually, I have an unusual pronunciation for a first name.  Every 3-4 years someone foreign pronounces it correctly on the first try (it's never an American).  I've even had to argue with people over it (it's MY name, you would think I'd know.)  It's not that it's so weird, it actually makes sense to pronounce it this way, it's just that everyone's been conditioned here to say it differently.  So I get the effects of "different" name.  You know what?  I actually LIKE having a slightly different and unique name.  It's the first minute of an ice breaker for an interview.  It means unlike my sister, I didn't share the same name as five (yes 5!) people in my class.  So I hear this argument - and with full knowledge and personal experience - I reject it.  It's not that big of a deal and there are compensatory benefits. 

I would also like to say that this make no sense to me: "The last name is going into a zillion different databases and there will be extra paperwork at every stage of their life, extra questions asked, extra hassle, all for *literally* nothing."  I mean this seriously - what difference does using a different parent name mean for the paperwork/questions/hassle?  First, there are many blended families these days, so most teachers would just likely make the erroneous assumption that that's the case, and they can be quickly educated if needed.  As already pointed out above, traveling internationally with kids already likely requires bringing a passport if traveling with just one parent.  And later in life, no one's even going to know or care - everyone just knows you as Smith and never knew you might have been Johnson.

We'll also need to agree to disagree over your assertion that it's over nothing.  In part, the arguments raised here about there being such as stigma associated with it makes that something I would want to combat.  In part I feel both parent names are deserving of equal respect and should be treated as equally valid choices. In part, I dislike living in a world where this equality of consideration of both parents is considered such a radical change and inspires such negativity.  (And if the last name is "nothing" then it shouldn't be such an issue that both names be considered.  It's easy enough to think of it as nothing if it's maintaining a status quo you support.  For an extreme example, most whites considered segregated schools "nothing" at one point and not harmful.)

That all said, thank you for the rest of your post, I found it interesting reading.

Captain FIRE - you'd love my older brother.  He took his wife's last name when they got married.  Anyway, I'd say continue on with the good fight if it is worth it to you but at some point you have to pick and choose your battles.  I've certainly had many conversations with my husband about this already.  He was okay with me not taking his last name upon marriage but I think he does want our kids to have his last name.  I have leverage in that he wants kids way more than I do, so I could always condition having children with getting naming rights ;-)  (Is that insane?)

Yes, it is insane and wrong to use children as leverage and pawns in your marriage.

dividendman

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #98 on: June 10, 2016, 11:42:31 AM »
Just make the last name "Temporary" and then have the kid choose once they are old enough.

Cressida

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Re: Baby's last name dilemma
« Reply #99 on: June 10, 2016, 11:49:42 AM »
As far as my personal opinion goes, there is a default way to do that, and it is name after the father (in the US anyways).  Not naming it after the father isn't "rejecting the patriarchy" it is just "causing a lot of confusion in the future for no purpose."

(1) Not naming a child after the father is absolutely rejecting the patriarchy.

(2) Lots of people think that rejecting the patriarchy is a purpose in itself. This thread alone demonstrates that this is hardly some fringe position.