Help negotiating job offer (salary + signon bonus)

[pasadenafr]

Dear Smartypants, I need some advice. I'm in the process of finding a new job, and pretty optimistic that I will receive a job offer next week. So while I wait, I'm trying to prepare for the inevitable salary negotiation, and hitting a bump.

During the initial screen, the (in-house) recruiter was kind enough to give me the actual range for the position: $220k-$230k (includes base and 20% bonus). No equity. She also said that she'd gotten approved for "up to $240k". This is a little above the middle of the ridiculous range in the job description.

My current comp is about $245k: $165k base + $50k bonus + $30k RSUs vesting in 2025.

So I expect a pretty standard salary negotiation, which I'm ok with. However, due to different fiscal years, if I take this job now, I will forfeit my bonus + RSUs in 2025, and won't get one until 2026 in the new company.

If I take the top of her range for simplicity ($200k base + $40k bonus), I would leave about $45k on the table in 2025, and about meet my current comp in 2026.

That's a lot of money to lose, but also a lot of money to ask for, and that's where I'm stuck. I would have no problem negotiating one or the other (base comp or a sign-on bonus to make up for the gap next year, at least in part), but I have no idea how to approach asking for both.

Ideally I would like that $240k salary and a reasonable sign-on of at least $20k or more for the gap (I really want this job).

Help?

[lucenzo11]

Have you shared your salary expectations with them yet or do they know how much you make now? I'm trying to get a sense of whether they know the target they need to hit or what they need to beat to get you to move.

Without knowing what the actual offer is, my strategy would be to start with just negotiating the salary and aiming really high for something that you would be happy accepting without the sign on or with a lower amount than you want. And then if they can't quite reach that, then you can say you'd need something else to accept. And you can then try negotiating the sign on bonus once you feel like you've hit their salary max.

[pasadenafr]

Have you shared your salary expectations with them yet or do they know how much you make now? I'm trying to get a sense of whether they know the target they need to hit or what they need to beat to get you to move.

Without knowing what the actual offer is, my strategy would be to start with just negotiating the salary and aiming really high for something that you would be happy accepting without the sign on or with a lower amount than you want. And then if they can't quite reach that, then you can say you'd need something else to accept. And you can then try negotiating the sign on bonus once you feel like you've hit their salary max.

They know my current total comp, without the breakdown. They also know I have RSUs in there (they don't normally offer those for new hires)

I'm not planning on negotiating anything before I have the actual offer, obviously. I'm just preparing for it. But given that their range is JUST under my current comp (if I include RSUs), I'm a little stumped on how to negotiate both comp and sign-on at the same time.

[GilesMM]

I don't change employers for less than a 15% raise unless under extreme circumstances (e.g current company is about to fold and job with it). So I would let them know you expect a 15% base raise plus at least a 20% bonus and stock grants.  If they want you to start before your current RSUs vest, they would need to compensate you for that as well.

[lucenzo11]

They know my current total comp, without the breakdown. They also know I have RSUs in there (they don't normally offer those for new hires)

I'm not planning on negotiating anything before I have the actual offer, obviously. I'm just preparing for it. But given that their range is JUST under my current comp (if I include RSUs), I'm a little stumped on how to negotiate both comp and sign-on at the same time.

Normally I don't like a potential employer to know my current compensation because then they usually only aim a little higher, but in your case, if this is a job that you really want and you are only looking to match your current compensation then this might actually be to your advantage because their base assumption will be that you'll want more money than you make now. But I also agree with GilesMM that you probably should be aiming for a decent more than what you make now, but that's just a standard guideline and there could be exceptions depending on the job.

Also, I wouldn't put too much weight on the range they gave you. It's information and shows that they are close to what you would accept, but I wouldn't take their high number as the absolute max. In my experience, I've seen companies share ranges to try to temper expectations. What was pre approved does not always equal what they will approve for the right candidate. Every company is different, but if they say to you that they have to go check with their manager to get approval, then that's a sign that you are actually getting close to their max.

[erp]

I strongly recommend this article about salary negotiation: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/
While it's targeted for software engineers, I think it's more broadly applicable than that.

On a slightly more practical level - I find at these sorts of comp levels, the numbers barely matter. If you're on the forums then you are probably spending well under what you earn, so an extra 20 or 40 grand a year will mean extra savings, but not a wildly different lifestyle. I think if the job looks like it'll be satisfying and rewarding, salary probably shouldn't be a stumbling point for you (and will almost certainly not be a stumbling point for them). If I can reliably make my employer a couple million a year, then it's pretty academic whether they pay me 200k or 220k - they're happy either way.

[JAYSLOL]

I’m no expert on salary negotiations, so I can’t be of much help there, but I hope it goes well for you, and congrats at kicking ass on the career front, sounds like we should all be getting pointers from you instead

[mistymoney]

Have you shared your salary expectations with them yet or do they know how much you make now? I'm trying to get a sense of whether they know the target they need to hit or what they need to beat to get you to move.

Without knowing what the actual offer is, my strategy would be to start with just negotiating the salary and aiming really high for something that you would be happy accepting without the sign on or with a lower amount than you want. And then if they can't quite reach that, then you can say you'd need something else to accept. And you can then try negotiating the sign on bonus once you feel like you've hit their salary max.

They know my current total comp, without the breakdown. They also know I have RSUs in there (they don't normally offer those for new hires)

I'm not planning on negotiating anything before I have the actual offer, obviously. I'm just preparing for it. But given that their range is JUST under my current comp (if I include RSUs), I'm a little stumped on how to negotiate both comp and sign-on at the same time.

why are you considering the switch? aka what else are you looking to get out of this besides money?

[pasadenafr]

Everyone, thank you for the responses. I guess my question is more about how to approach things when you want to negotiate two different things like this. I know what I want to get from this job, but while getting a raise isn't the most important factor, I'm not ok with leaving $45k on the table next year because of fiscal year differences.

I guess I'm a little stumped on how to articulate that these 2 things (base and sign-on) need to be reviewed. English isn't my first language and my experience in negotiating a job offer in America is very, very limited. I only ever did this twice, and I only had to negotiate my base salary*. I'm confident in my position, not in my "hey guys, let's talk about giving more money in these two areas" approach skills. It's all theoretical for now since they haven't actually made an offer yet.

* The other time is a funny story. My first job in the US - Interviewing over inter-continental phone calls after they contacted me and I had no idea what I was doing. My conversational English skill levels were uh, not great, and my knowledge of the American corporate world was about zero. I did have a very rough idea of the salary I'd need to maintain the same QoL but that was about it. I "negotiated" 110k, which the HR person accepted.
They actually gave me $115k without ever mentioning the difference. Talk about negotiating yourself into the lowest rung in the range.

[mistymoney]

Everyone, thank you for the responses. I guess my question is more about how to approach things when you want to negotiate two different things like this. I know what I want to get from this job, but while getting a raise isn't the most important factor, I'm not ok with leaving $45k on the table next year because of fiscal year differences.

I guess I'm a little stumped on how to articulate that these 2 things (base and sign-on) need to be reviewed. English isn't my first language and my experience in negotiating a job offer in America is very, very limited. I only ever did this twice, and I only had to negotiate my base salary*. I'm confident in my position, not in my "hey guys, let's talk about giving more money in these two areas" approach skills. It's all theoretical for now since they haven't actually made an offer yet.

* The other time is a funny story. My first job in the US - Interviewing over inter-continental phone calls after they contacted me and I had no idea what I was doing. My conversational English skill levels were uh, not great, and my knowledge of the American corporate world was about zero. I did have a very rough idea of the salary I'd need to maintain the same QoL but that was about it. I "negotiated" 110k, which the HR person accepted.
They actually gave me $115k without ever mentioning the difference. Talk about negotiating yourself into the lowest rung in the range.

so leave it to them. if they give you a subpar offer, respond with with an overall number you are looking for for total compensation. They would know best if they can tinker with base vs bonus or vice versa.

[lucenzo11]

Everyone, thank you for the responses. I guess my question is more about how to approach things when you want to negotiate two different things like this. I know what I want to get from this job, but while getting a raise isn't the most important factor, I'm not ok with leaving $45k on the table next year because of fiscal year differences.

I guess I'm a little stumped on how to articulate that these 2 things (base and sign-on) need to be reviewed. English isn't my first language and my experience in negotiating a job offer in America is very, very limited. I only ever did this twice, and I only had to negotiate my base salary*. I'm confident in my position, not in my "hey guys, let's talk about giving more money in these two areas" approach skills. It's all theoretical for now since they haven't actually made an offer yet.

* The other time is a funny story. My first job in the US - Interviewing over inter-continental phone calls after they contacted me and I had no idea what I was doing. My conversational English skill levels were uh, not great, and my knowledge of the American corporate world was about zero. I did have a very rough idea of the salary I'd need to maintain the same QoL but that was about it. I "negotiated" 110k, which the HR person accepted.
They actually gave me $115k without ever mentioning the difference. Talk about negotiating yourself into the lowest rung in the range.

They probably care way more about the base than the sign on so I'd start by just negotiating that. Once you feel like you've maxed out what you can on base, then negotiate the sign on. It's and A then B, not A and B together. You may have to lump them together at the end, but keep them separate the start.

Here's an example and let's say your target is $240k base + $20k sign on to match what you state in your first post.

Initial Offer from company: $235k base + $10k sign on.
You counter: "Thank you for the offer, however, would you be able to do a base of $250k? I'd be able to accept the position at that salary". Make sure whatever you counter with here is something that you would actually accept with the sign on as first offered.
Company Offer 2: "$250k is outside our range, but we can bring the offer up to $240k". Here you can see that they can't do $250k, they may be able to go higher than $240k so another salary counter could be considered, but you probably are only squeaking out another 1 or 2% here.
You counter again: "I would consider $240k, but is there any room on the sign on bonus? Could you do a $25k sign on bonus?" This is where you pivot. You aren't saying you are fully accepting it, but you are transitioning the negotiation from base to bonus. The base will stay as left off, and now you can see if they can fill in your gap with bonus.
Company Offer 3: "We could do a $20k sign on bonus with the $240k salary."
You: Accept or reject offer

There may be more steps in there but I hope that helps you to see how a negotiation with multiple points that you want to change. And you always have to consider that you may need to say no and walk away.