Author Topic: Changes in Gov't  (Read 8410 times)

DCbywayofMN

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Changes in Gov't
« on: November 09, 2016, 01:25:54 AM »
How have others responded to changes in administrations? It looks like markets will take a massive hit over next 4-5 months, at least. R's have 2-4 years of Executive/Legislative, plus 10-30 years of judicial control coming to them because of this. Policies seem to be likely based on hatred of other races/ethnicities/religions and fear of trade/commerce because of fear of 'losing.'

Any tips for 401k holders, ETF owners, home owners? Major shift in party control such as this hasn't been seen since 2000, but even that didn't account for supreme court transformation that would turn back, even farther, the last 20 years of relative progress, discounting the pivotal citizens united and voting rights act decisions.

Vagabond76

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2016, 02:14:14 AM »
I think you should panic, sell everything (to me at a discount), and move to Canada.

Or...get the buy button ready.  Do you really accept all the hype that the world is going to end?

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2016, 04:31:10 AM »
I voted for Clinton (first choice was Johnson but it seemed possible Trump would win PA) and I'm investing the spare $1000 I have as soon as the markets open.

Government is huge and unwieldy and the President isn't as powerful as people think.

boarder42

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2016, 04:39:13 AM »
I think you should panic, sell everything (to me at a discount), and move to Canada.

Or...get the buy button ready.  Do you really accept all the hype that the world is going to end?

But I don't own any monthly dividend stocks for you to buy

KBecks

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2016, 05:08:59 AM »
I am curious to see how the markets react today but that is short term stuff.  I have some cash on the sidelines that I will probably keep on the sidelines.

We will continue to pay down our mortgage as planned.

We are into saving and frugal living (duh) and will continue with those types of things.   I would like to build up some gold/silver holdings do diversify, a small %.  It depends on the prices.

Markets generally do worse under Republicans than Democrats.  But I am not too concerned about small fluctuations, it's the big ones I worry about.

Emergo

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2016, 05:12:51 AM »
Should i still max out this year's 401k?

marty998

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2016, 05:13:33 AM »
I bought today. And I think there will continue to be opportunities to buy more over the next few months.

It will be rocky, but not catastrophic over the next few months.


boarder42

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2016, 05:50:50 AM »
Should i still max out this year's 401k?

yes

Schaefer Light

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2016, 07:00:52 AM »
Policies seem to be likely based on hatred of other races/ethnicities/religions and fear of trade/commerce because of fear of 'losing.'
US companies may say they are worried about this, but they shouldn't be.  Most of what US companies produce is sold right here at home.  We would do just fine without the rest of the world.  The rest of the world may not do so well without us, though.

lthenderson

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2016, 07:31:39 AM »
I think you should panic, sell everything (to me at a discount), and move to Canada.

Or me too!

I'm amazed at all the Henny Penny's appearing today.

Vagabond76

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2016, 07:45:32 AM »
I think you should panic, sell everything (to me at a discount), and move to Canada.

Or...get the buy button ready.  Do you really accept all the hype that the world is going to end?

But I don't own any monthly dividend stocks for you to buy

That's too bad.  If you have any quarterly payers, I'll take those too.

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2016, 07:58:45 AM »
It looks like markets will take a massive hit over next 4-5 months, at least.
Assuming your crystal ball is correct, you do not look at "a massive hit" as a buying opportunity?

soccerluvof4

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2016, 09:10:51 AM »
Dont look now but the market is up 60pts.  Who knows where it will end. Who knows what policies will really come into play. Just stick with your plan, dont worry till you need to and on a major correction if one comes throw more in than your usual plan. now its up 68 pts.

frugaliknowit

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2016, 10:03:54 AM »
Dont look now but the market is up 60pts.  Who knows where it will end. Who knows what policies will really come into play. Just stick with your plan, dont worry till you need to and on a major correction if one comes throw more in than your usual plan. now its up 68 pts.
]

+1

Metric Mouse

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2016, 12:28:28 AM »
Dont look now but the market is up 60pts.  Who knows where it will end. Who knows what policies will really come into play. Just stick with your plan, dont worry till you need to and on a major correction if one comes throw more in than your usual plan. now its up 68 pts.

Oh, and the unprecedented supreme court transformation that also happened under Clinton (2 appointments), and GW Bush (2 appointments) and Obama (2 appointments).  Seems like this election wasn't quite as extrodinary as some people make it out to be.

GetItRight

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2016, 12:29:12 PM »
It looks like markets will take a massive hit over next 4-5 months, at least. R's have 2-4 years of Executive/Legislative, plus 10-30 years of judicial control coming to them because of this.

Based on what? With republican majority I would expect his tax plan to come to fruition. Appreciable tax cuts for every individual, and big tax cuts for all businesses which is really just more tax cuts for individuals as businesses don't pay taxes, though it wil lbe in the form of lower cost goods and services, higher pay, and more jobs. These things should be very good for the market, but now while it's still cheap... Or just stick to the plan and don't try to time the market as that amounts to gambling.

Policies seem to be likely based on hatred of other races/ethnicities/religions and fear of trade/commerce because of fear of 'losing.'

What policies specifically? I can't think of any from Trump or local candidates I've been watching which could even remotely be construed as you have described.  I can think of several that liberals have implemented or attempted to implement that disproportionately harm minorities or are otherwise racist or sexist... Minimum wage, welfare, Obamacare, not allowing choice in government schools, high taxes and regulation that push jobs overseas (disproportionately manufacturing and associated jobs)... To name just a few, and saying nothing of the second place candidates views and harmful actions towards women, other ethnicities, and the poor, which have been outright reprehensible over her "career" in politics.

In any event, if the new administration changes things I expect it to be good for the economy overall. Any knee jerk changes to your investment strategy will likely hurt you financially.

icemodeled

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2016, 12:47:16 PM »
I don't know what's wrong with people.. Life is going on, the sun is still rising and setting. Nothing is coming to a halt. If it's the media that is sending people into a frenzy then that's terrible but.. Don't believe everything the media says. I read that people were taking the day after off because they were unable to cope... :o we are not changing anything were doing, least not just because of this election.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2016, 02:52:28 PM »
^ Right! alot of people are acting really foolishly to say the least.

etselec

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2016, 03:15:47 PM »
I don't know what's wrong with people.. Life is going on, the sun is still rising and setting. Nothing is coming to a halt. If it's the media that is sending people into a frenzy then that's terrible but.. Don't believe everything the media says. I read that people were taking the day after off because they were unable to cope... :o we are not changing anything were doing, least not just because of this election.

"What's wrong with people" is that some of us are way more affected than others. It's one thing to say "changes in governments happen, life goes on" but hate crimes and harassment are already way up, and many people are staring down some serious consequences from this election — like you or people you love being deported, having to register in a database because of your religion, losing access to life-saving medical care if ACA is repealed...I'm not trying to start a political argument here, just trying to point out that for some people, the results of this election will likely cause major negative changes in their lives, and I don't think it's so unreasonable that one might want to take a day off to process that and regroup.

john6221

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2016, 03:44:36 PM »
Yeah, what's wrong with people? Trump has only run the most hate-filled campaign since Goldwater, completely bringing white nationalists into the mainstream. What's not to love?

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dividendman

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2016, 04:40:43 PM »
Yeah, what's wrong with people? Trump has only run the most hate-filled campaign since Goldwater, completely bringing white nationalists into the mainstream. What's not to love?

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

I think the point was that we should see what happens rather than just throwing a fit or being depressed. Let's also not forget that Trump garnered more % of the African American and Latino vote than Romney. So while he did probably receive all of the "white nationalist" vote, that was not the only vote.

Let's also not forget that demographic trends aren't going to change. There will be a more diverse population in the next two years than now, in the next four years than now. What does this mean? I'm not sure. If Trump turns out to not be horrible, he could win again, with even more of the vote (a la George Bush - who lost the popular vote to Gore but won larger against Kerry).

I think a lot of people have predicted a lot of things this election. Now they are predicting more things that are going to happen after the election. But they have been wrong about everything so far so I'm taking a wait and see approach.

I also think we need to be very careful about echo chambers in our own social circles and in the media. What I'm actually hearing Ryan, McConnell and Trump saying now that they will have power seems to be reasonable and not extreme in any way. Of course, it's early days, but let's see.

Retire-Canada

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2016, 04:50:08 PM »
It looks like markets will take a massive hit over next 4-5 months, at least.

Since the election was called my US stock ETF is up almost 3%. So far the stock-pocalypse has not happened.

bacchi

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2016, 04:56:16 PM »
The Dow/Nasdaq split today may be a sign of a risk off, though.

He promised to get rid of NAFTA; that would sink the economy.

Not much to do until it happens. Buy and hold and, if the economy craters, it'll recover in ~6 years.

GetItRight

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2016, 05:22:00 PM »
"What's wrong with people" is that some of us are way more affected than others. It's one thing to say "changes in governments happen, life goes on" but hate crimes and harassment are already way up

Everything I've read has been liberals rioting and liberals assaulting either conservatives or whites or their property, hate crimes indeed. These people are breaking the law and violating the rights of others, they need to be dealt with but this is their own individual choices and actions and has nothing to do with government policy.

many people are staring down some serious consequences from this election — like you or people you love being deported

If they illegally entered the country then that may be the case, should have thought about that before breaking the laws in a country you wanted to move to. If there was not a welfare state this would be a non issue. In a civilized society that you don't want to collapse, you can have a welfare state adn tightly controlled borders or no welfare state and open borders. You can't have it both ways for obvious reasons.

having to register in a database because of your religion

Everything I've read is that any database of registered people would be explicitly Syrian refugees, nothing to do with religion but rather coming from a war torn country where many wish to do violence to Americans, a situation created by American foreign policy under both democrat and republican majority for decades. Nothing to do with religion or legal immigrants from other countries, and it could be resolved by not allowing immigrants or refugees from Syria or other countries with a large portion of the population hostile to Americans, then no database at all. This goes along with the welfare state and generously accepting refugees. I'm more concerned with other databases and registries that exist without notification or due process, such as the terrorist watch list and no fly list. Where is the outcry over those, or over the TSA's unconstitutional practices or mere existence?

losing access to life-saving medical care if ACA is repealed..
Incorrect, I'm certain hospitals and doctors will still provide whatever medical care you can imagine and in fact it is required by law they they do in many (most?) cases. What you mean to say is those who choose to get particular life-saving medical care would have to pay for it at some price they or their insurance company negotiate. I can't find anything wrong with that.

I'm not trying to start a political argument here, just trying to point out that for some people, the results of this election will likely cause major negative changes in their lives, and I don't think it's so unreasonable that one might want to take a day off to process that and regroup.

No doubt some will be subject to some negative consequences. Mostly it seems it is either those who are victims of people breaking the law and assaulting others or those who have broken laws to live in this country, or have otherwise gotten a free ride off money stolen from others. Those folks should be glad it lasted as long as it did and get their act together moving forward.

The law abiding among us are likely so suffer further oppression in that our Second and Fourth Amendment rights are likely to be further violated. This is terrible, but no doubt the same or worse would occur under the Clinton regime as the Clinton crime family is clearly Statist just as Trump is.

Think of some of the positives this election...

Marijuana is now legal for any purpose in 8 states, and for medical use only in 27 states. This is the beginning of the end of the drug war, an unconstitutional program that has been devastating to the black community especially and the country as a whole. ... Unfortunately not in my state, I'd like to try it as a lower cost and healthier alternative to pain management than big pharma narcotics but am not willing to take the risks of violating the law and ending up jailed and unemployable upon release or killed by government to get relief from pain while minimizing negative long term affects on my body and minimizing intoxicating effects.

A third party now has ballot access in 20 states

Under the new president elect's tax plan everyone will pay less taxes, businesses will have more money which will grow the economy, lower unemployment, and raise wages

Maine passed RCV


dilinger

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2016, 05:45:05 PM »
"What's wrong with people" is that some of us are way more affected than others. It's one thing to say "changes in governments happen, life goes on" but hate crimes and harassment are already way up

Everything I've read has been liberals rioting and liberals assaulting either conservatives or whites or their property, hate crimes indeed. These people are breaking the law and violating the rights of others, they need to be dealt with but this is their own individual choices and actions and has nothing to do with government policy.


I have not heard of a single riot.  What I have heard (and seen) is lots of peaceful protests.

On the other hand, I've also heard about people being attacked by Trump supporters.  Either verbally attacked, physically attacked, or having their property attacked.

https://twitter.com/yardenkatz/status/796484016128069632

http://qz.com/833607/us-election-a-rash-of-racist-attacks-have-broken-out-in-the-us-after-donald-trumps-victory/

https://twitter.com/ericmbudd/status/796761533464322049

https://twitter.com/kayleighcat/status/796546174358536192


many people are staring down some serious consequences from this election — like you or people you love being deported

If they illegally entered the country then that may be the case, should have thought about that before breaking the laws in a country you wanted to move to. If there was not a welfare state this would be a non issue. In a civilized society that you don't want to collapse, you can have a welfare state adn tightly controlled borders or no welfare state and open borders. You can't have it both ways for obvious reasons.

It's not just people who are here illegally.  Myself and many others are here legally, and are STILL very concerned about the hateful rhetoric from Trump, as well as the actions of his supporters.  Maybe you don't see it, but that just means you need to listen to those who are experiencing it.

GetItRight

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2016, 06:24:29 PM »
Dilinger, regarding your first point my comments stand, just change liberal to conservative. It has nothing to do with government policy. Most of the rioting and violence I have heard of has been in CA and mentioned without my inquiring by friends who live there who are concerned for their safety.

Regarding your second point, concern over "hateful rhetoric from Trump", I have not heard or read any hateful rhetoric and certainly have not read anything that supports that he desires to implement any government policy that is discriminatory or hateful. Trump is not politically correct, but free speech is protected as a natural right in this country even if some may find it offensive. Can you provide some examples hateful rhetoric that Trump has said he wants to make policy or law? It's certainly concerning if Trump wants to implement discriminatory or hateful policies or has actually done anything harmful or aggressive to others (particularly minorities and women), as the Clinton crime family has a history of doing not just in their personal lives but with government policy and force as well. I'm only aware of some eminent domain cases that he ended up not using government force to take others property when all was said and done. I honestly don't think you have anything to worry about being as you followed the legal process to immigrate here, I've certainly not read anything that supports concern over deportation of legal immigrants.

dividendman

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2016, 06:31:17 PM »

I have not heard of a single riot.  What I have heard (and seen) is lots of peaceful protests.


I think I have to agree with GetItRight on this one. It is usually the liberals (and I count myself as a social liberal) that use civil disobedience and rioting to get attention. Just look at Oakland, shops smashed all over the place downtown. I don't understand why blocking roads and highways and smashing shops helps. Especially in California - it went heavily Democratic as usual yet people still feel the need to smash things.

Just read this article to see the stupidity: http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Second-Day-Election-Protests-400584121.html

Then you have fools in the protests who are saying things like don't destroy the "mom and pop, brown, black or native" shops in Oakland.... isn't that racist?

Sigh. I am not a Trump supporter. I would have preferred Clinton to win. But we losers of the election are acting terribly. I can't tell the difference between a Trump rally racist and this protest.

the_fixer

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2016, 06:49:43 PM »
We have several really close friends that immigrated here and have been here legallly for up to 35 years and they are all absolutely freaking out thinking that someone is going to come to their house knock on the door and snatch them and deport them.

I am not in that situation and I feel bad that they are fearful of what might happen but I just can not see that happening. Maybe I am living in denial with rose colored glasses but I think the reality is more likely that the fear mongers have whipped everyone into a frenzy to try and get the vote.

I have other friends that are on the far other spectrum and they are always whipped into a frenzy by the fear mongers on the other side.

Far left and far right they both tend to try and drive their agendas by fear. fortunately we are a country of good level headed people that the majority are down the middle.

Try not to get sucked into the Drama and fear mongering we will be AOK.




dilinger

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2016, 07:11:31 PM »
Dilinger, regarding your first point my comments stand, just change liberal to conservative. It has nothing to do with government policy. Most of the rioting and violence I have heard of has been in CA and mentioned without my inquiring by friends who live there who are concerned for their safety.

Regarding your second point, concern over "hateful rhetoric from Trump", I have not heard or read any hateful rhetoric and certainly have not read anything that supports that he desires to implement any government policy that is discriminatory or hateful. Trump is not politically correct, but free speech is protected as a natural right in this country even if some may find it offensive. Can you provide some examples hateful rhetoric that Trump has said he wants to make policy or law? It's certainly concerning if Trump wants to implement discriminatory or hateful policies or has actually done anything harmful or aggressive to others (particularly minorities and women), as the Clinton crime family has a history of doing not just in their personal lives but with government policy and force as well. I'm only aware of some eminent domain cases that he ended up not using government force to take others property when all was said and done. I honestly don't think you have anything to worry about being as you followed the legal process to immigrate here, I've certainly not read anything that supports concern over deportation of legal immigrants.

Seriously?

"When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting. And it only makes common sense. It only makes common sense. They’re sending us not the right people.

It’s coming from more than Mexico. It’s coming from all over South and Latin America, and it’s coming probably— probably— from the Middle East. But we don’t know. "

What does that say to you?  Because to me, that says "people coming from Mexico, South/Latin America, and the Middle East are (mostly) criminals."  And to Trump supporters, that says that they are not to be trusted and should be sent back.  It doesn't matter whether they are legal or illegal - they are not to be trusted.

bacchi

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2016, 07:13:33 PM »
Everything I've read is that any database of registered people would be explicitly Syrian refugees, nothing to do with religion but rather coming from a war torn country where many wish to do violence to Americans, a situation created by American foreign policy under both democrat and republican majority for decades. Nothing to do with religion or legal immigrants from other countries, and it could be resolved by not allowing immigrants or refugees from Syria or other countries with a large portion of the population hostile to Americans, then no database at all.

Trump himself stated that he'd make a database of Muslims.

Quote
Incorrect, I'm certain hospitals and doctors will still provide whatever medical care you can imagine and in fact it is required by law they they do in many (most?) cases.

The law requires that emergency care must be provided in an ER. It does not require that chemo must be provided, for example, which is often used to save lives.

Quote
Marijuana is now legal for any purpose in 8 states, and for medical use only in 27 states. This is the beginning of the end of the drug war, an unconstitutional program that has been devastating to the black community especially and the country as a whole. ...

The Obama DOJ has left those states alone, at least in the past few years. What side of the GOP will we see? The "states rights" side or the "reefer madness" side?

dilinger

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2016, 07:13:53 PM »

dragoncar

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2016, 07:16:26 PM »
I'm mostly worried about my 3rd amendment rights

csprof

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2016, 07:38:51 PM »
How have others responded to changes in administrations? It looks like markets will take a massive hit over next 4-5 months, at least. R's have 2-4 years of Executive/Legislative, plus 10-30 years of judicial control coming to them because of this. Policies seem to be likely based on hatred of other races/ethnicities/religions and fear of trade/commerce because of fear of 'losing.'

Any tips for 401k holders, ETF owners, home owners? Major shift in party control such as this hasn't been seen since 2000, but even that didn't account for supreme court transformation that would turn back, even farther, the last 20 years of relative progress, discounting the pivotal citizens united and voting rights act decisions.

In the short term - well, you've already seen what the markets did:  Pretty much nothing.

In the long term, you're into crystal ball territory, and we all know how well that works out when the markets are concerned.

Massive tax cuts of the form Trump has proposed: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/tax-plan

Would cut tax revenue substantially, without counterbalancing increases in revenue, leading to a large increase in the deficit:  http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/analysis-donald-trumps-tax-plan/full

and the cuts won't benefit most folks here much:  "The proposal would cut taxes at every income level, but high-income taxpayers would receive the biggest cuts, both in dollar terms and as a percentage of income.".  They're pretty good cuts if you're earning more than $600 or $700k/year.  It's a fairly straightforward "trickle-down economics" - see Reagan.  It provided some short-term stimulus and jacked the debt over the long term.  Economists fight a lot about what it all means.  I have no reason to think I'm smarter than any of them. :)  Paul Krugman thinks it's going to cause a massive recession in the long term.  But you're never going to be able to time it.

So:  Keep your expenses low, diversify your portfolio, and be mustachian. :)



Tester

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2016, 09:07:18 PM »
Dilinger, regarding your first point my comments stand, just change liberal to conservative. It has nothing to do with government policy. Most of the rioting and violence I have heard of has been in CA and mentioned without my inquiring by friends who live there who are concerned for their safety.

Regarding your second point, concern over "hateful rhetoric from Trump", I have not heard or read any hateful rhetoric and certainly have not read anything that supports that he desires to implement any government policy that is discriminatory or hateful. Trump is not politically correct, but free speech is protected as a natural right in this country even if some may find it offensive. Can you provide some examples hateful rhetoric that Trump has said he wants to make policy or law? It's certainly concerning if Trump wants to implement discriminatory or hateful policies or has actually done anything harmful or aggressive to others (particularly minorities and women), as the Clinton crime family has a history of doing not just in their personal lives but with government policy and force as well. I'm only aware of some eminent domain cases that he ended up not using government force to take others property when all was said and done. I honestly don't think you have anything to worry about being as you followed the legal process to immigrate here, I've certainly not read anything that supports concern over deportation of legal immigrants.

Seriously?

"When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting. And it only makes common sense. It only makes common sense. They’re sending us not the right people.

It’s coming from more than Mexico. It’s coming from all over South and Latin America, and it’s coming probably— probably— from the Middle East. But we don’t know. "

What does that say to you?  Because to me, that says "people coming from Mexico, South/Latin America, and the Middle East are (mostly) criminals."  And to Trump supporters, that says that they are not to be trusted and should be sent back.  It doesn't matter whether they are legal or illegal - they are not to be trusted.

Look, the fact that you think Trump supporters think that does not mean it is true.
Fabricating stuff does not help your story.
Except if you are a Trump supporter and you think this - in this case it is not fabricating stuff.

More:
You say you did not hear (or saw) any riot.

I also did not see any riot - but, although I am not using my TV I heard of riots.
And to convince myself if there is any trace of truth in that I did the following http://lmgtfy.com/?q=trump+protest+riots
I found some interesting things there.
I see some things about burning the flag... some racist things... some property damage...
And it is not only from obscure sources, I see Reuters too.

So, keeping the above in mind, I would like to see a civilized discussion without trying to start flames.
In order to avoid flames this will be my only direct reply to you in this thread.


Now on topic:
Regarding changes in government - I really don't know what this change will bring.
Right now I am waiting and continuing my life/work as before.
And I jokingly tell everyone I have my baggage packed as my visa expires next year I think - I can extend it for two more years.
I am waiting for the response to the Green card process, hopefully it will be yes.
But, if it will be no and I have to leave I will do it.
When I came to this country I knew not everything is perfect and that there are also some real problems, but I came here because I thought this is a country whose citizens still appreciate honesty and common sense.
I like to think this is still the case and I could not break the law to stay in this country.
So I don't see how some anti Trump arguments accuse him of wanting to apply the law.
There are a lot of other big problems Trump has, but when people accuse him of trying to apply the law it only harms their cause.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 09:25:31 PM by Tester »

dilinger

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2016, 10:40:22 PM »
Dilinger, regarding your first point my comments stand, just change liberal to conservative. It has nothing to do with government policy. Most of the rioting and violence I have heard of has been in CA and mentioned without my inquiring by friends who live there who are concerned for their safety.

Regarding your second point, concern over "hateful rhetoric from Trump", I have not heard or read any hateful rhetoric and certainly have not read anything that supports that he desires to implement any government policy that is discriminatory or hateful. Trump is not politically correct, but free speech is protected as a natural right in this country even if some may find it offensive. Can you provide some examples hateful rhetoric that Trump has said he wants to make policy or law? It's certainly concerning if Trump wants to implement discriminatory or hateful policies or has actually done anything harmful or aggressive to others (particularly minorities and women), as the Clinton crime family has a history of doing not just in their personal lives but with government policy and force as well. I'm only aware of some eminent domain cases that he ended up not using government force to take others property when all was said and done. I honestly don't think you have anything to worry about being as you followed the legal process to immigrate here, I've certainly not read anything that supports concern over deportation of legal immigrants.

Seriously?

"When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting. And it only makes common sense. It only makes common sense. They’re sending us not the right people.

It’s coming from more than Mexico. It’s coming from all over South and Latin America, and it’s coming probably— probably— from the Middle East. But we don’t know. "

What does that say to you?  Because to me, that says "people coming from Mexico, South/Latin America, and the Middle East are (mostly) criminals."  And to Trump supporters, that says that they are not to be trusted and should be sent back.  It doesn't matter whether they are legal or illegal - they are not to be trusted.

Look, the fact that you think Trump supporters think that does not mean it is true.
Fabricating stuff does not help your story.
Except if you are a Trump supporter and you think this - in this case it is not fabricating stuff.


I'm not fabricating anything.  I'm telling you what people think Trump is saying to his supporters.  And some of his supporters believe it:
https://mobile.twitter.com/i/moments/796417517157830656?m=1
It doesn't matter if it's only a minority of Trump supporters; Trump has made them willing to come out and attack people.


More:
You say you did not hear (or saw) any riot.

I also did not see any riot - but, although I am not using my TV I heard of riots.
And to convince myself if there is any trace of truth in that I did the following http://lmgtfy.com/?q=trump+protest+riots
I found some interesting things there.
I see some things about burning the flag... some racist things... some property damage...
And it is not only from obscure sources, I see Reuters too.

You're right that there was a riot; I was unaware of the Oakland riot last night.  However, the vast majority of protests last night were peaceful.  Seattle, Portland, NYC, etc were all peaceful.

Sadly, tonight's Portland protest just turned violent. :(

Metric Mouse

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2016, 11:06:42 PM »
You're right that there was a riot; I was unaware of the Oakland riot last night.  However, the vast majority of protests last night were peaceful.  Seattle, Portland, NYC, etc were all peaceful.

Sadly, tonight's Portland protest just turned violent. :(

Sadly, this is not the proper way to influence larger portions of the population that one's opinions should be held in higher regard.

Schaefer Light

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2016, 06:30:59 AM »
Dilinger, regarding your first point my comments stand, just change liberal to conservative. It has nothing to do with government policy. Most of the rioting and violence I have heard of has been in CA and mentioned without my inquiring by friends who live there who are concerned for their safety.

Regarding your second point, concern over "hateful rhetoric from Trump", I have not heard or read any hateful rhetoric and certainly have not read anything that supports that he desires to implement any government policy that is discriminatory or hateful. Trump is not politically correct, but free speech is protected as a natural right in this country even if some may find it offensive. Can you provide some examples hateful rhetoric that Trump has said he wants to make policy or law? It's certainly concerning if Trump wants to implement discriminatory or hateful policies or has actually done anything harmful or aggressive to others (particularly minorities and women), as the Clinton crime family has a history of doing not just in their personal lives but with government policy and force as well. I'm only aware of some eminent domain cases that he ended up not using government force to take others property when all was said and done. I honestly don't think you have anything to worry about being as you followed the legal process to immigrate here, I've certainly not read anything that supports concern over deportation of legal immigrants.

Seriously?

"When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting. And it only makes common sense. It only makes common sense. They’re sending us not the right people.

It’s coming from more than Mexico. It’s coming from all over South and Latin America, and it’s coming probably— probably— from the Middle East. But we don’t know. "

What does that say to you?  Because to me, that says "people coming from Mexico, South/Latin America, and the Middle East are (mostly) criminals."  And to Trump supporters, that says that they are not to be trusted and should be sent back.  It doesn't matter whether they are legal or illegal - they are not to be trusted.
If they're crossing our border illegally, then they are in fact criminals.  The very first thing they did when coming to our country was to commit a crime.

dilinger

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2016, 10:51:21 AM »
What does that say to you?  Because to me, that says "people coming from Mexico, South/Latin America, and the Middle East are (mostly) criminals."  And to Trump supporters, that says that they are not to be trusted and should be sent back.  It doesn't matter whether they are legal or illegal - they are not to be trusted.
If they're crossing our border illegally, then they are in fact criminals.  The very first thing they did when coming to our country was to commit a crime.

And if that's your immediate mental association with people that look like they're from those countries, that's a HUGE problem for people like me who are here legally.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2016, 11:20:47 AM »
Bottom line the protests and all have gone on long enough and resolving nothing but creating a further divide. Whatever side your on people need to reel it in and be considerate of there neighbor. Time to move forward from all this shit but the more the press reports it and the longer it takes Both partys to get on the TV together and say knock it off the longer its going to go on. A day or two of peaceful protest is one thing but people are beating people in the streets, starting fires, breaking into buildings. Makes me wonder if half these people had the intelligence to even know who or what they were voting for in the first place with their actions.

dragoncar

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Re: Changes in Gov't
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2016, 12:37:11 PM »
Bottom line the protests and all have gone on long enough and resolving nothing but creating a further divide. Whatever side your on people need to reel it in and be considerate of there neighbor. Time to move forward from all this shit but the more the press reports it and the longer it takes Both partys to get on the TV together and say knock it off the longer its going to go on. A day or two of peaceful protest is one thing but people are beating people in the streets, starting fires, breaking into buildings. Makes me wonder if half these people had the intelligence to even know who or what they were voting for in the first place with their actions.

I agree with the (apparent) larger point, but is this satire?