Author Topic: Should I stay or should I go?  (Read 1598 times)

violetfern

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Should I stay or should I go?
« on: July 22, 2020, 08:17:05 PM »
I live in the charming town of Brattleboro, Vermont. I own my house which is in good condition and many people say is beautiful. I bought it in 2013 for $110k, plus $30k for renovations. Monthly mortgage & escrow is around $850 a month. It varies depending on my interest subsidy from USDA Rural Development who I bought the house with and depending on my property taxes which change yearly depending on my income. Vermont has a property tax assistance program. Usually with the assistance it's around $1500 a year but the full property tax is almost $6000 a year. My remaining mortgage is a little over $113k.

I am a single mother of three children. The oldest is 19 and is living on her own. The next just graduated high school and will be going to Middlebury, but is deferring a semester or year because of the pandemic. With grants and scholarships, because I've been so low income, her first year at Middlebury is free. Subsequent years will cost around $5000 for tuition and room & board. My son is 15, going into 10th grade, an excellent student, and very motivated and self-directed when it comes to schoolwork. He will be studying remotely at least this coming fall semester.

I've been trying for years to get work that pays enough to afford healthcare. Because I've been so low income, most of the time I qualify for Medicaid which is a great program but there's not enough left to save for retirement savings/investment. Additionally, there are few jobs in this area and most of the ones that are here don't pay well. My goal is to earn enough to afford healthcare ($2000 per month premium plus $800 per month deductible and co-pays) plus save $10,000 a month for retirement. I just turned 51 on Sunday. I have $50k saved up in retirement funds, savings, and investments. I know if I stay where I am now, the chances of finding work that pays livable wages are slim. I have credit card debt with Care Credit but there's no interest and I've been paying it off as fast as I can within the no-interest period.

I was laid off from my job last month. I knew that was coming and have been job hunting since January. I have a BA and MA and can do many things. I don't want to discuss what I studied in college / job trajectories. My wild dream is to go into interior decorating because I love it so much, but I need to live in an area where there are more people who have money. Where I live there is a lot of poverty, homelessness, drugs, unemployment, underemployment, and deteriorating roads, sidewalks, and buildings. It is very discouraging. The positive side is that I play violin in a classical music orchestra and for operas and in an Arabic music ensemble and am busy with different dancing ensembles and dance gatherings. The countryside is beautiful. The arts are vibrant. The food is delicious. The people are funky and intelligent. But I am tired of struggling and I've been single for twelve years. I want to find a good romantic match for me who is also motivated in life.

I'm thinking of moving to a more metropolitan area closer to the New England coast -- Fairfield County, New Haven, Providence, metro Boston, Portsmouth... There will be more income opportunities and a greater population of (how shall I express it?) more motivated, accomplished, and polished people. I lived in Boston and Paris for years and loved it there. The downside is that the cost of living will be much higher -- this may be balanced out by greater income opportunities -- and with so many people unemployed and the economic fallout from the pandemic, starting a new life may be extra challenging.

I put my house on the market yesterday for $250k, which is optimistic for this area. Already there were three showings today and three more are scheduled for tomorrow. I have a clause saying that closing on the house will happen when I find suitable housing. My plan is that I will live on unemployment compensation ($415 a week), child support ($250 a week), and sparingly from the profit from the house sale (no more than $1500 a month) while building my self-employment business and/or looking for work.

My gut is telling me now is the time to sell. I've been planning on selling and moving for five years now but was afraid to take that step because of wanting to provide stability for my children. Now with 1-2 kids at home, my house is too big and too much work. I want less stuff, smaller house, little or no yard to maintain.

My question for you is: do you think I am being too risky doing this? I'm fine taking this risk if it were just me, but since I have 2 kids still home, I need to consider their needs even though they are almost grown up now. I am safe where I am and I can continue to survive even though it's a struggle, but I'm lonely too and I want a better quality of life for me and my children. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!

PS Here's my house. https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/104-Central-St_Brattleboro_VT_05301_M37436-07526?view=qv

Freedomin5

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2020, 08:52:03 PM »
I don’t think it’s too risky. You’ve launched one kid and half launched another one.

Before selling and moving, I would start to apply for jobs in the cities/areas to which you are interested in moving. Get a job first. Then move.

If you love interior decorating, is there some way to parlay that into an online business, doing remote/e-consultations? For example, I remember there was a blog long ago called Young House Love. They DIY fixed up their own house room by room and documented the process on their blog. Their blog grew in popularity and more people started asking them for design advice.

Another idea is, since you play the violin, can you offer private lessons as a side gig?

Since you have an MA, can you adjunct at the local college? Or teach online courses with a college? If you’re a native English speaker, could you teach English online?

I would also look for other ways to increase household income. All your kids are now old enough to work, at least part-time. They should be contributing to household expenses. At least they should take care of their own clothing and books and personal items.

violetfern

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2020, 09:07:02 PM »
Thank you for your reply! Yes, I have been trying for 11 years to increase my income through many different ways. I have come to the conclusion that it is extra hard to do that where I live so I want to move. I'm applying to lots of jobs in the areas I'm interested in, with a minimum salary of $50k, which still isn't enough to afford healthcare for my family but I have to start somewhere. If I sell the house, I will have a financial cushion to live on if need be. As difficult as things have been, I always land on my feet. My credit is excellent.

I've worked as an adjunct college professor. I was just laid off from a public and middle school teaching job because they cut French from the school district. For various reasons I do not want to continue teaching and I have plenty of other professional experience (admin, publishing, marketing, writing, travel industry) that I would like to tap into. Definitely blogging (which I have done for employers) and remote consultation are options. I am also thinking of marketing my skills as a French teacher to teach online students this fall since so many families will be doing remote learning. I taught violin but it is not something I want to do as a side gig. I also taught dance classes but where I am now, almost no one has any money so there are almost no students, but at least I get a great workout!

For years I have worked with the Vermont Department of Labor and other job consultants to figure out how to increase my income. They basically all tell me my goal of earning enough to afford healthcare for me and my family is not possible around here. Personally I think healthcare is as basic and essential as food and shelter so this is very frustrating for me.

PS My retirement savings goals of $10k a month are a big dream when my yearly income has been around $21k to support myself and my kids (plus $10k in child care) but I will keep trying! I am grateful my investments in Vanguard have been doing well lately.

Thank you for reading and for your feedback!

violetfern

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2020, 06:01:42 AM »
One more thing : regarding finding a job. In 2016 I was laid off from my job. I applied to 5-10 jobs a week (entry level to managerial level) within 1 1/2 hours of my home, worked with job placement agencies and the department of labor, for 14 months until I got another job -- teaching at a charter school in New Hampshire. That job had no benefits, didn't pay enough to afford healthcare, and required I stay inside a building with only skylights from 7:30 am to 4:30 pm, no breaks allowed for lunch or anything else. That was when the economy was supposedly good and few people were out of work. I don't expect my job hunt now to be much easier when more than 45 million Americans are out of work and businesses are closing and downsizing, which is why it makes sense to me to move to an area where there are more jobs and people with more money. I was hoping to sell my house and get a job working in Europe but Americans are not allowed there now. I am thinking if I am not burdened with my house, renting a place in the US until I can move out of the country is a reasonable step.

J Boogie

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2020, 10:32:17 AM »
I think it's a good idea for you to make your move sooner rather than later. You're 51 and your window of opportunity for earning won't be around forever. You want many things but most importantly you want to put yourself in a good position to have strong earnings for the next decade, giving you the opportunity to do what you love for the rest of your life after that instead of keep grinding away.

I would try to focus in on an industry where you have a good chance at making over 60k. It won't be interior design. You have older kids demanding less of your time and can use your free time to grow as an interior designer.

I'd even consider moving somewhere further away than you might originally be thinking if it opens up your chances of locking in high earnings (and savings) for the next decade. I think it's wise to focus on an area known for things you are passionate about, as this will make it more likely for you to meet someone. Even if this person isn't wealthy themselves, being able to share housing expenses goes a long ways towards giving you some breathing room in retirement. I wish you the best in finding something to do and someone to love!


LifeHappens

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2020, 10:53:52 AM »
I'm curious where you get the estimated $2000 for health insurance. I plugged some numbers in the Kaiser ACA subsidy calculator. For a household with $50,000 in income and 1 adult and 3 dependents, you qualify for an ACA subsidy of up to $1373 per month.

blingwrx

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2020, 11:34:46 AM »
You might want to factor in if you are make a lot more you may no longer qualify for financial aid for your kids who are still in college or will be going to college in the future if they do need that so you may need to factor that into the budget. Your kids can support them selves with work study programs which is usually offered to low income kids and pays better than the standard part time job and the work is usually laid back and flexible.

You're not getting any younger I agree with your decision to sell, move and pursue your dreams, but you definitely need to do your research and crunch the numbers, even if you made triple your current salary it might not be enough to live well in bigger cities like Boston, so definitely do your research before you jump. Maybe live outside the city with a longer commute but still get paid well working in the city. As others have said look for the jobs now then move, don't move without a solid plan.

As far as healthcare, most decent jobs in a mid-large corporation or city jobs in the bigger cities would subsidize the majority if your monthly premiums. I never heard of anyone paying $2000 a month for premiums with a full time salaried job that subsidizes healthcare. I worked at a mid sized company and i paid $200 a month to have my family on a platinum plan with low co pay and deductibles. The highest I hear of is probably $500 a month and high deductible plan. If you're going the self employment route and need to get an ACA plan run the numbers you probably qualify for medicaid still or very low premiums since you are a family of 4 with low income.



trollwithamustache

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2020, 02:53:31 PM »
what will the house sale do to your kids eligibility for aid at college? Right now, the house value is off the table because its your primary residence, but if you turn it into a pile of cash, that is a different line.

Freedomin5

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2020, 03:53:45 PM »
Quote
I've worked as an adjunct college professor. I was just laid off from a public and middle school teaching job because they cut French from the school district. For various reasons I do not want to continue teaching and I have plenty of other professional experience (admin, publishing, marketing, writing, travel industry) that I would like to tap into. Definitely blogging (which I have done for employers) and remote consultation are options. I am also thinking of marketing my skills as a French teacher to teach online students this fall since so many families will be doing remote learning. I taught violin but it is not something I want to do as a side gig. I also taught dance classes but where I am now, almost no one has any money so there are almost no students, but at least I get a great workout!

You do seem to have a lot of teaching experience! What aspects of teaching make you not want to continue with it? Is there some way to continue teaching while mitigating the more undesirable aspects? It just seems really hard to re-launch yourself in a different career as you are so established in this one already. I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just saying use your teaching as a safety net until you can develop your other professional experience into a second, solid career. And if you're teaching online, you can start marketing that right now. You don't have to wait until you've moved to do so, since you can basically teach anywhere you have internet.

The other thing to be aware of in terms of working abroad is that some countries have an upper age limit in terms of work visas. My husband and I have worked abroad for the last nine years. For example, in China, it's very hard to get work visas for people over age 55. I don't know how it's like in Europe. If you moved to Europe, are you thinking of teaching at an international school? If you teach at an international school, I don't know if you'll be able to save $10K a month without an additional side hustle, though I do think $5-6K a month is very doable. It doesn't hurt to try and apply though. The worse that can happen is that you won't get the job, and then you'll be no worse off than you are right now. If you do apply, start applying in October/November. That's when the good international schools start hiring for the following school year. My understanding is that Europe tends to have lower salaries, where as Asia tends to pay top dollar, especially for native English speaking teachers with American teaching experience and credentials.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 04:02:56 PM by Freedomin5 »

Dicey

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2020, 05:50:28 PM »
Just curious - why does the listing say it's a one-car garage when it appears to be a double? Also, there should be a picture of the glass fronted cabinets side of the kitchen, 'cause people love those and it will help make your kitchen look bigger. Cute house, BTW. It looks like you've put a lot of care into it. Live the diagonal window. I'll bet there's a story behind that.

ETA, I just looked at the listing again on a bigger screen. I realize now the cabinets are not glass fronts, but the wood is lovely. See if you can get your realtor to sneak another picture in.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2020, 12:40:21 AM by Dicey »

Sanitary Stache

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2020, 06:21:29 PM »
Just curious - why does the listing say it's a one-car garage when it appears to be a double? Also, there should be a picture of the glass fronted cabinets side of the kitchen, 'cause people love those and it will help make your kitchen look bigger. Cute house, BTW. It looks like you've put a lot of care into it. Live the diagonal window. I'll bet there's a story behind that.

Diagonal windows are classic in VT.  It was a game as kids to see who can find the most diagonal windows on any given drive, like holding your breath past a cemetary.  I wonder what the building era is for those windows 1850s? I guess they are also called Vermont Windows. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_window

@violetfern Your younger kids should still be eligible for Dr. Dynosuar. Do you and your older child get Health Exchange subsidy that would reduce those costs dastically and maybe pay for the deductible?  I would argue for staying in VT to encourage your kids to stay, you sound like the kind of people the state needs. I think there are a lot of opportunities here, and your oldest going to Middlebury for so little is a big deal.  But if you aren't happy in Brattleboro, then finding a place with more compatable people is smart.  I land on the side of selling your house now if you can get what you are asking. $250,000 with a 4% withdrawal rate is another $10,000 per year, or if you can leave it alone for 10 years it would be more valuable.

Are you getting a tax return from the child tax credit?  This is a nice chunk of non taxable income that can be saved. Also, get the next Farms to Families food drop, they have a box of VT cheese, cabot hunters cheddar, Mable Brook Mozzarella, Thompson's aged cheddar, Maplebrook cheese curds.  We had poutine for dinner tonight, a totally free meal.

violetfern

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2020, 09:31:14 PM »
Thanks, everyone!
Re healthcare: I have been on Medicaid since 2001, despite working as hard as I can to earn livable wages. Even when I was married and my then-husband was working as a luxury boat builder and house builder, we didn't earn enough to not qualify for Medicaid. Certain politicians are doing all they can to remove any and all assistance for heatlhcare. I want to be in the situation where that will not endanger my life and my children's lives. It's terrifying reading every day in the news people's attempts to destroy access to healthcare in the US. I am so weary from the constant stress of that. I moved to Vermont because they had voted it in universal healthcare (and I had what I thought would be a good job but all I got as a reward for my hard work and excellent management was more work and unpaid mandatory overtime) but then it got cancelled. Or to be more precise, my friend who's a healthcare and workers rights activist in the state says that universal healthcare in Vermont just got put in the background while they set up the ACA program. So there's still hope that universal healthcare might one day happen. I've wasted too many years waiting for that to happen.

The costs I quoted are from big health insurance companies when I call them to get pricing. A friend of mine and her husband even have a plan that has a $25,000 a year deductible before they can get any healthcare covered for the premium (several hundred a month) they pay. She insists that that is the only thing available to them in Vermont. She's crazy smart and resourceful so I have to trust her on that. Healthcare is as essential and basic as food, water, shelter, transportation, and heat. It should be easily affordable and accessible to anyone (and their family) who works full time, but that is not the case.

Most employers in my experience do not offer plans that one can afford at the little they pay. It's almost like they make the healthcare plans inaccessible to employees so they don't have to pay those benefits. Also where I live most employers only hire part time or gig employees or independent contractors so they don't have to pay healthcare benefits. Personally I think it's absurd and ridiculous that access to healthcare in the US is connected to one's job. That is not the case in all the other developed countries in the world. It's caused so much unnecessary and tragic pain and stress for people here.

I gett EIC and child tax credit, about $8000-$10,000 a year, but that is decreasing now that my oldest won't be my dependent on my taxes, and soon they next will not be a dependent. I've invested my refund in retirement funds, or house renovation, or paid credit card bills, depending on my needs at the time.

We get food from the National Guard as well as local food programs. I try to eat all natural, fresh, organic, healthy. A lot of that food is expired or overly processed and bad quality, but we're doing what we can with what we have. If there's food I receive that's not good for our family, I pass it on to others. We get lots of cheese here in Vermont! Unfortunately dairy makes us feel sick so even though we love it, we try not to eat it. There are many struggling families who can't make it to the food hand-out events and I share the food with them too.

I DO NOT want to return to teaching in the US. Colleges pretty much only hire adjuncts who get paid very badly and have no benefits, so one has to cobble together a lot of other jobs to survive. K-12 schools require teachers to do active shooter drills which are completely traumatic to me and horrifying for me to subject the students to. I am tired of students being really mean and rude to me and threatening me. Most teachers in the schools where I've taught have had to deal with students behaving this way. Experienced teachers (I've been teaching since 89) say that it's getting worse every year. I've noticed that too. I love kids and I know much of it isn't their fault but rather the culture we're in but I'm tired of subjecting myself to that. Additionally I absolutely am NOT going to risk my life by going into schools for work during a pandemic. It was awful enough always being on edge for a possible school shooting. I would happily teach overseas. I taught in Wuhan, China, at a university in 93-94. I taught children in Paris, France. But now most countries in the world will not allow Americans to enter. If I sell my house and rent, then it'll be easy to leave the rental and go overseas when Americans are accepted abroad again; not so much if I own a house.

The chances of getting work that pays livable wages anywhere near where I live are almost impossible. The chances of getting any work in my area are very slim too. My son who's 15 doesn't want to leave his friends but I'm so exhausted from living in poverty or near poverty. I'm almost going out of my mind with frustration. I've been trying for over a decade to get work that pays middle class wages but there's almost nothing like that around where I live. I hear that's the case for most of America now (despite the constant derision I hear against low-income people). Nevertheless I'll keep trying.

Re housing: I can live very simply and don't have much stuff. I am used to spending 50% or more of my income on housing because my income has been so low. I figure I'll be spending between $2000-$2500 for a rental. I've done the research and that's possible, even in the Boston area.

Re my house: Thanks for your kind words! The kitchen doesn't have any glass doors. I'm not sure if that's in the realtor's description. If so, I'll have to fix that.

The garage is an unusual situation -- it's shared with my neighbor. I have one half and she has the other. There's a wall down the middle. Fortunately she's a reasonable, easy-going person so we've been able to make it work. Last summer we put on a new roof and had the garage painted. I coordinated everything, hiring neighbors who are builders to do the work, and we each paid half to them directly.

Yes to witch windows! There are a lot in Vermont. They're also called coffin windows, because apparently the shape made it easier to get coffins out of the second floor rooms? But in that case how did they get them in? The slant of the window apparently magically blocks witches from getting into the house when flying around on their brooms and it must also extend to all the other windows in the house!

Re location: I want to stay in New England to be closer to my two older children, and also my ex-husband for my kids. I have full physical and legal custody so I can go anywhere I want but I want to be considerate of their relationship with him. Also considering what's going on in this country, I want to be where I can go for places of safety. Moving to a region where I will have no connections at all does not seem to be a good decision. I would love to move to Canada or Europe, but that's not possible right now.

I sent in another job application today for work in a town I love, in a field that excites me, doing work I am perfectly suited for and good at, with a great salary. Here's to hoping for a positive outcome!

violetfern

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2020, 09:44:10 PM »
Sanitary engineer -- Yes! We did get that box of food on Wednesday!
I also got $30 in farmers market coupons. The local Food Works program will also deliver vegan food boxes to me. I'm trying to be mostly vegan but it's hard when relying on donated food so much. We eat pretty well! There's so much good food in Vermont.