Author Topic: article comments: we don't exist!  (Read 12661 times)

scrubbyfish

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article comments: we don't exist!
« on: April 10, 2015, 08:02:31 AM »
Yahoo did what I thought was a (rare for it) perfectly sound list of financial smart moves.
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/12-millennial-inspired-ways-spend-150312751.html

Most of the 29 comments so far essentially insist we Mustachians don't exist, that it's all impossible, yadda yadda. In the meantime, I guess those commenting just keep spiralling into debt...   Interesting to see tips spelled out and most just getting up in arms.

Kris

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2015, 08:04:34 AM »
Yahoo did what I thought was a (rare for it) perfectly sound list of financial smart moves.
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/12-millennial-inspired-ways-spend-150312751.html

Most of the 29 comments so far essentially insist we Mustachians don't exist, that it's all impossible, yadda yadda. In the meantime, I guess those commenting just keep spiralling into debt...   Interesting to see tips spelled out and most just getting up in arms.

I find it endlessly fascinating how often people say that MMM is lying about his financial situation, and that the math doesn't add up, etc. It's so interesting.  I guess people just can't math. 

shelivesthedream

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2015, 09:34:40 AM »
As a "young person", I find some of the comments really insulting, and I wonder how many of the commenters would like to say that to my face. I don't think my generation as a whole is particularly good with money - for most, I would say the recession has made people think they have no chance at the jobs/house/life their parents had so why bother planning for the future? It's not an unreasonable attitude to have, wrong though the conclusions may be. We constantly hear about unemployment, graduate job schemes were slashed, house prices are crazy, global warming is going to kill us all... At least the baby boomers had a dream of peace, security and 2.4 children. We, according to most media, have nothing to look forward to.

To say that we are lazy and selfish is just plain cruel, and smacks of golden ageism. Of course no one was ever lazy when they were young...

I did like one comment, though, which said that no one should be surprised that we grew up playing with technology all the time because we (parents) gave it to them! If young people are like that then to some extent they have been made that way by their parents - the very people accusing Millenials of being so terrible.

scrubbyfish

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2015, 09:40:25 AM »
...for most, I would say the recession has made people think they have no chance at the jobs/house/life their parents had so why bother planning for the future? It's not an unreasonable attitude to have, wrong though the conclusions may be.

Agreed. I thought just the same upon reading that particular sentence in the article.

In fact, I still feel like there's "no point" in setting some conventional goals (owning a house in BC, spending lots on most post-secondary options). However, I do see I can build relative wealth, and am excited about not having to return to poverty, being able to provide a foundation for my kid, and being able to donate lots. Even if we couldn't save enough to own a house, for example, I'm curious about why more people wouldn't want to Mustache their way to having more to give away.

Bob W

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2015, 09:40:37 AM »
In my experience virtually everyone is bad at math and bad with money.   (including myself)  Even those that are semi good with math and money tend to believe that saving 10% is somehow great.



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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2015, 09:42:23 AM »
I'd have made some of those same comments when I was young and broke. Back then I thought my broke-ness wasn't my fault, it was a **Thing That Happened To Me.**  Not many people want to learn how to save a few nickels here and there when they owe 50k. That's obviously short-sighted but not everyone is rational. Or mature. 

Lots of us have to learn the hard way that these principles are actually really all there is to it. And then keep relearning :)


trailrated

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2015, 09:50:07 AM »
Argue for your limitations and sure enough, they are yours.

jeromedawg

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2015, 09:57:23 AM »
As a "young person", I find some of the comments really insulting, and I wonder how many of the commenters would like to say that to my face. I don't think my generation as a whole is particularly good with money - for most, I would say the recession has made people think they have no chance at the jobs/house/life their parents had so why bother planning for the future? It's not an unreasonable attitude to have, wrong though the conclusions may be. We constantly hear about unemployment, graduate job schemes were slashed, house prices are crazy, global warming is going to kill us all... At least the baby boomers had a dream of peace, security and 2.4 children. We, according to most media, have nothing to look forward to.

To say that we are lazy and selfish is just plain cruel, and smacks of golden ageism. Of course no one was ever lazy when they were young...

I did like one comment, though, which said that no one should be surprised that we grew up playing with technology all the time because we (parents) gave it to them! If young people are like that then to some extent they have been made that way by their parents - the very people accusing Millenials of being so terrible.

I think most of them are probably trolls who are bitter and jealous in some way, shape or form. They probably know a handful of kids who fit the negative description, and prescribe it to everyone in that generation. These are the same people who are always complaining about *something* yet do *nothing* to improve anything.

BlueHouse

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2015, 02:08:13 PM »
At least the baby boomers had a dream of peace, security and 2.4 children. We, according to most media, have nothing to look forward to.
You may not be aware of this, but baby boomers had drills in grade school called "duck and cover".  No generation of US children since has had to imagine the possibility and horror of nuclear war on a daily basis.  So consider yourself lucky there. 
I'm GenX, and I had many of the same concerns that you mentioned.  For a few months in middle school, I was convinced that the Earth and mankind couldn't survive all that we put it through.  I stopped caring about anything and stopped going to school.  I almost became despondent. 
Like all previous generations, you must make the most of what you have.  That's the only advice there is. 

Lis

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2015, 02:47:41 PM »
You may not be aware of this, but baby boomers had drills in grade school called "duck and cover".  No generation of US children since has had to imagine the possibility and horror of nuclear war on a daily basis.  So consider yourself lucky there.

In middle school, I vividly remember my principal coming over the loudspeaker and telling us two planes hit the Twin Towers in the city and watched my friend be led out of the classroom sobbing. If you're lucky to live close enough to a nuclear power plant like me, you've heard the sirens tested once a week and have experienced that fear of when they go off unexpectedly. In high school we had four bomb scares. We had multiple drills to prepare us if a shooter entered our school. We watched the installation of metal detectors and the implementation of school police officers.

You may not be aware of this, but every generation goes through terrifying shit. I'd say it's rather stupid to compare apples to apples here, or play the game 'which generation had it worse.'

enigmaT120

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2015, 04:13:40 PM »
Argue for your limitations and sure enough, they are yours.

You should have used quote marks.  But I can't remember who's; Heinlein?


trailrated

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2015, 04:24:29 PM »
Someone said it and I wrote it down about a year ago. sadly I have been too lazy to google who initially said it. But great quote regardless of who it originated from :)


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shelivesthedream

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2015, 02:06:36 AM »
I'd have made some of those same comments when I was young and broke. Back then I thought my broke-ness wasn't my fault, it was a **Thing That Happened To Me.**   

Perhaps a positive thing about Millenials is that they may all be broke but at least they admit it. The baby boomers (although this is highly coloured by the Overheard at Work thread!) are basically bankrupt but pretend otherwise and perhaps don't even realise how big a hole they're in. My generation knows they are screwed! They spend their last penny on the latest iphone but aren't afraid to admit that it is their last penny.

shelivesthedream

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2015, 02:25:01 AM »
You may not be aware of this, but baby boomers had drills in grade school called "duck and cover".  No generation of US children since has had to imagine the possibility and horror of nuclear war on a daily basis.  So consider yourself lucky there.

In middle school, I vividly remember my principal coming over the loudspeaker and telling us two planes hit the Twin Towers in the city and watched my friend be led out of the classroom sobbing.

Every single journey on public transport is tinged with the fear that the bus or train might be blown up. When Holborn had an underground cable fire, everyone initially thought it was another terrorist attack. If you go on a plane, yours might be the one that is hijacked.

I know it's not quite the same as the entire world exploding in a nuclear attack, but your world might explode at any moment. You might be one of the unlucky ones, with no warning whatsoever.

Rural

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2015, 05:29:42 AM »
You may not be aware of this, but baby boomers had drills in grade school called "duck and cover".  No generation of US children since has had to imagine the possibility and horror of nuclear war on a daily basis.  So consider yourself lucky there.

In middle school, I vividly remember my principal coming over the loudspeaker and telling us two planes hit the Twin Towers in the city and watched my friend be led out of the classroom sobbing.

Every single journey on public transport is tinged with the fear that the bus or train might be blown up. When Holborn had an underground cable fire, everyone initially thought it was another terrorist attack. If you go on a plane, yours might be the one that is hijacked.

I know it's not quite the same as the entire world exploding in a nuclear attack, but your world might explode at any moment. You might be one of the unlucky ones, with no warning whatsoever.


You're right, it's scary, but it's not the same. I grew up with  the absolute certainty that I'd never live to see 30, and neither would anybody else I knew. The entire world, everything I'd ever seen, would be gone.


I live with the terrorist threat now, and I think there's an unexpected bright side to the fear I grew up with: I'm far less obsessive than many about terrorism, because every single day is an unexpected gift. The world didn't end, and every time the sun rises, it's another goddamn miracle. I feel like Miranda, looking toward her "brave new world" with such a sense of wonder.  It's far from perfect, but it's there, and that's something we never expected.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2015, 05:31:40 AM by Rural »

larmando

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2015, 06:10:53 AM »


You may not be aware of this, but baby boomers had drills in grade school called "duck and cover".  No generation of US children since has had to imagine the possibility and horror of nuclear war on a daily basis.  So consider yourself lucky there.

In middle school, I vividly remember my principal coming over the loudspeaker and telling us two planes hit the Twin Towers in the city and watched my friend be led out of the classroom sobbing.

Every single journey on public transport is tinged with the fear that the bus or train might be blown up. When Holborn had an underground cable fire, everyone initially thought it was another terrorist attack. If you go on a plane, yours might be the one that is hijacked.

I know it's not quite the same as the entire world exploding in a nuclear attack, but your world might explode at any moment. You might be one of the unlucky ones, with no warning whatsoever.

Really?? Wow... I've taken plenty of public transport and never ever feared anything, in any country in the world. I think you might be over worrying quite a lot there. The probability we have to die in many other ways is so much higher....

shelivesthedream

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2015, 07:21:16 AM »
Rural: That's a rather lovely way of explaining it. And I do understand that it's different.

larmando: I'm not saying it keeps me up at night or that I'm too afraid to travel on public transport. After all, there have been axe-wielding maniacs since the dawn of humanity but we still all leave the house every day. Just that one does always know it's a possibility. Several people I know's parents had pretty close calls on 7/7 - it brings it a lot closer when it's someone you know. And one of my absolute earliest memories of the news is 9/11. (The only thing I remember before that are Tony Blair being elected and Diana dying.) It makes it hard to believe in conventional government and national security. Not to labour the point, but it's like horse charges in WW1 when warfare changed completely but the British government could not keep up. Warfare is changing again so the old tactics don't work but we don't have any new ones. I must admit I don't know a lot about modern defence, but that is the impression I have and it does affect one's mindset. People become blind/in denial, YOLO or preppers.

Exflyboy

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2015, 10:49:50 AM »
Well I'm glad it doesn't keep you up at night.. But as an engineer I am more driven by data.. I mean in the USA, the last time I looked about 150 people per day were killed on the roads.. Compare that to air travel and you'd never get in a car ever again..:)

I grew up in London (prior to when I left for the University of Bath) and I remember bus bombings (IRA), and of course the Holborn fire and 7/7.. but when you compare the number killed to a population of 9 million people, its tiny.

I am however aware that urban environments do mean you are more likely to be mugged or worse so I have an acutely finely tuned "street wise" fight or flight response. This of course means I make different decisions when in such environments. When I was in sao Paulo my young lady friend who was going to take the metro back to her apartment after we had dinner... NFW!.. we'll both take a cab and i will drop you off even though it is in the opposite direction to my hotel...:)

mozar

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2015, 02:07:31 PM »
As a millennial I believe that the baby boomers had it worse. The embargo, the cold war... Although generation x has it pretty shitty too. The silent generation had it pretty sweet, they reaped the benefits of WWII industrial machine but were mostly too young to fight. Started their careers when economy was taking off in the 50's, benefited from the labor movement and all got pensions.
It does piss me off that I had to start my career in a terrible recession. Wanting to retire is early is a direct result of how I was treated for the past 7 years.

It's easier now because we have the internet and if you are interested you can actually find out what is going on in the world and how it will affect you. Also less racism, sexism etc. A woman I was talking to told me you couldn't by health insurance as an unmarried woman until the 90's. Not to mention that we are living in one of the most peaceful periods in human history.
Anyways I think it's important to remember that our lifestyle is pretty radical. Early retirement is also a somewhat new idea historically. I was watching that show House Hunters and this couple bought a resort for 800,000 cash in Costa Rica. They were talking about being nervous about putting their life savings into a property! Duh, I would be too. On 800k I would retire!

beltim

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2015, 02:21:19 PM »
You may not be aware of this, but baby boomers had drills in grade school called "duck and cover".  No generation of US children since has had to imagine the possibility and horror of nuclear war on a daily basis.  So consider yourself lucky there.

In middle school, I vividly remember my principal coming over the loudspeaker and telling us two planes hit the Twin Towers in the city and watched my friend be led out of the classroom sobbing.

Every single journey on public transport is tinged with the fear that the bus or train might be blown up. When Holborn had an underground cable fire, everyone initially thought it was another terrorist attack. If you go on a plane, yours might be the one that is hijacked.

I know it's not quite the same as the entire world exploding in a nuclear attack, but your world might explode at any moment. You might be one of the unlucky ones, with no warning whatsoever.


You're right, it's scary, but it's not the same. I grew up with  the absolute certainty that I'd never live to see 30, and neither would anybody else I knew. The entire world, everything I'd ever seen, would be gone.

You really think the world is safer now that more than 5 countries have nuclear weapons?

scottish

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2015, 02:45:15 PM »
Yup, I think it's safer now that the US and the USSR aren't fighting proxy wars backed by huge nuclear arsenals.

Uh wait, Putin in the Ukraine?   maybe not so much...

Rural

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2015, 06:42:24 PM »
Yup, I think it's safer now that the US and the USSR aren't fighting proxy wars backed by huge nuclear arsenals.

Uh wait, Putin in the Ukraine?   maybe not so much...


Oh, yeah. I've heard this song before.


It's still a miracle that the sun came up this morning, but yeah. Ukraine. Here we go again.


One difference, though: Russia is still Russia, but Russia isn't the USSR and they don't have the USSR's power. We'll see, but that may be a ray of hope.

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2015, 03:56:08 AM »
You may not be aware of this, but baby boomers had drills in grade school called "duck and cover".  No generation of US children since has had to imagine the possibility and horror of nuclear war on a daily basis.  So consider yourself lucky there.

In middle school, I vividly remember my principal coming over the loudspeaker and telling us two planes hit the Twin Towers in the city and watched my friend be led out of the classroom sobbing.

Every single journey on public transport is tinged with the fear that the bus or train might be blown up. When Holborn had an underground cable fire, everyone initially thought it was another terrorist attack. If you go on a plane, yours might be the one that is hijacked.

I know it's not quite the same as the entire world exploding in a nuclear attack, but your world might explode at any moment. You might be one of the unlucky ones, with no warning whatsoever.


You're right, it's scary, but it's not the same. I grew up with  the absolute certainty that I'd never live to see 30, and neither would anybody else I knew. The entire world, everything I'd ever seen, would be gone.

You really think the world is safer now that more than 5 countries have nuclear weapons?

So it seems a lot of people are actually somewhat concerned by the potential of a terrorist attack etc? As in you guys actually think about this on a regular basis and this is impacting your lives? I am also a millennial and 9/11 is the first geopolitical event in my life that I can recall, but I don't think I have been impacted by this at all in the way I think about my everyday safety and security. I recently moved to a developing country. On every mall entrance there is a metal detector. At my office building there is full blown security like when you are at an airport. When I want to enter my apartment building in a car, there are security guards that check underneath the car with mirrors, in the trunk and the glove compartment...presumably for bombs I guess. Does this make me think more about terrorism or make me feel unsafe in any way? Nope. I don't feel unsafe here at all, I go about my life the same way I did when I lived in the US, Europe or other places in Asia. Never occurred to me to think much about it really. I mean, statistically speaking you are really really unlikely to get killed in a terrorist incident or in a plane crash. Even though there have been a lot of plane crashes over the past 18 months (none of them due to terrorism btw), I still don't feel unsafe going on a plane...it's still the safest mode of transport. What I do think about here on a daily basis is to not drink tap water (that might kill ya) and to look very carefully when crossing the roads (people drive like shits). I think overall the world is pretty safe to be honest (and I have traveled A LOT), I don't have the feeling that it's getting more unsafe and I certainly don't feel that we are less safe today than previous generations. We certainly have made great medical and technological advances, live longer, smoke less etc. The things that are worse are in my opinion things that are up to each person individually, like increasing obesity rates and the associated diseases. But terrorism and plane crashes? Totally not on my radar as potential dangers to my being alive. I rank those as freak incidents...like I could walk out of the building and get killed by a lose brick falling on my head...that's the kind of likelihood that I ascribe to these things...and I don't think about them much at all.

Michael792

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2015, 04:30:46 AM »
TL;DR: I'm angry and venting. Sorry :p Not directed at you guys.

So...I'm gonna agree with whoever it was that said they're "offended" by the generalizations of millennials. Except, I'm pissed. People try to tell me that shit all the time. "Oh, well you just lived off your parents." Fuck anyone who says that. My parents were not rich, and both of them grew up dirt poor. They have no savings and didn't put me through college. I paid for what college I could and then went into the Army. Unlike many in the baby boomer generation, nobody in America's army today was forced to be here. There's a fuck ton of kids that volunteer for service. So it pisses me off when people say our generation can't work hard. I'll show you hundreds of thousands that can. And most of them, myself included, have had to work for everything good in our lives. So fuck that bullshit.

marty998

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2015, 05:18:28 AM »
Lets look at something else from the same website then shall we?

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/tales-early-retirement-path-3-people-took-152905901.html

Nords has popped up in this one too...

Quote
For the Detrichs, the key to retiring early was cutting expenses as well as trading an expensive home for a cheaper one. When they moved to Panama, he estimated that they could live for 40 percent less than they did in California. Costs have risen, but he estimates they still spend 30 percent.

Quote
Nords didn't set out to retire at 41. As he got ready to leave his military career with the U.S. Navy's submarine force after 20 years, he surveyed other career options. But after years of 50- to 60-hour weeks or being on-call for weeks at a time, the last thing he wanted to do was essentially the same work in the civilian sector.
"There was a certain amount of burnout," Nordman says. "I don't know what I want to do when I grow up, but it wasn't this." He remembers thinking, "I just really want to go surfing for a while."
He and his wife, Marge, a Navy meteorologist/oceanographer, had a 9-year-old daughter, Carol, who they wanted to spend more time with. After doing some math, he realized they could afford to live on his military pension and Marge's earnings with the U.S. Navy Reserve, plus investment and rental property income.
What made early retirement possible for them was the frugal lifestyle they had embraced since they were married in 1986 and the savings habit he started from the time he stashed away $25 from his first paycheck after college.

Quote
Stan Kimer always hoped to retire early. To that end, he started saving early, maxing out his 401(k) from his corporate job at IBM, investing in company stock and living below his means so he could build up assets.

Miss Prim

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2015, 06:21:34 AM »
About the millenniums, I raised 2 of them, and they are both bad-ass savers, have good jobs and a good work ethic.  From day one, my job was to raise them to be productive members of society.  My daughter bought her first house when she was single at age 22.  She beat me by 2 years.  My son bought his at age 25.  They both learned frugal ways from their parents and we gently nudged them into careers that would pay well.  No fluffy degrees were going to be paid for! 

Their high school friends range from kids with degrees working at Target and other low paid jobs, and others with well paid IT jobs.  We live in a fairly affluent area and honestly, some of the parenting of most of the kids was not good.  Some of their friends lived an indulged life and were totally unprepared for real life and making their own living.  To me, that is child abuse.

For me, the type of parenting can make or break a child's future life. 

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beltim

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2015, 07:03:55 AM »
You may not be aware of this, but baby boomers had drills in grade school called "duck and cover".  No generation of US children since has had to imagine the possibility and horror of nuclear war on a daily basis.  So consider yourself lucky there.

In middle school, I vividly remember my principal coming over the loudspeaker and telling us two planes hit the Twin Towers in the city and watched my friend be led out of the classroom sobbing.

Every single journey on public transport is tinged with the fear that the bus or train might be blown up. When Holborn had an underground cable fire, everyone initially thought it was another terrorist attack. If you go on a plane, yours might be the one that is hijacked.

I know it's not quite the same as the entire world exploding in a nuclear attack, but your world might explode at any moment. You might be one of the unlucky ones, with no warning whatsoever.


You're right, it's scary, but it's not the same. I grew up with  the absolute certainty that I'd never live to see 30, and neither would anybody else I knew. The entire world, everything I'd ever seen, would be gone.

You really think the world is safer now that more than 5 countries have nuclear weapons?

So it seems a lot of people are actually somewhat concerned by the potential of a terrorist attack etc? As in you guys actually think about this on a regular basis and this is impacting your lives?

I don't, no.  But Rural said he/she grew up knowing for sure that the world would end before he/she turned 30.  Nobody feels that way anymore, despite the fact that more countries (and far less stable countries) not have far more destructive weapons than before.  My point wasn't that everyone that should be terrified now it's that Rural shouldn't feel more safe now than before.

I agree that the world pretty much gets safer every generation.

scrubbyfish

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2015, 08:24:27 AM »
Nords has popped up in this one too...

What?!? Our Nords is profiled in Yahoo finances?!?! That's trippy!! :)

So it seems a lot of people are actually somewhat concerned by the potential of a terrorist attack etc? As in you guys actually think about this on a regular basis and this is impacting your lives?

I don't worry much about bombs and stuff... I've travelled widely, lived for five months in developing countries that had security guards with their guns everywhere...relied on the latter to save me from a scary dude chasing me... got held up at gunpoint there... was horrified to see that plane disappear a couple of days after we'd flown three small children across the world and still needed to get two of them back to their mom... But I usually assess things as safe.

My biggest concern is things like extreme drugs and extreme stress that quickly make lovely people awful or dangerous, and rage in day to day life -school shootings, road rage, people etc. People just "losing it" in general. I think that's becoming more common, and that's a concern to me.

Though I'm always aware, too, that "the plane I'm on might be the one that gets taken down" and "the next curve in the road might be the place I die". But it doesn't cause anxiety; it's just awareness of randomness and mortality.

I grew up with  the absolute certainty that I'd never live to see 30, and neither would anybody else I knew. The entire world, everything I'd ever seen, would be gone.

I was born in the early 70s -don't know what generational name that gives me- very concerned about nuclear activity, etc, but I didn't assume the world would end. However, I absolutely assumed I would be dead before 30. My closest friend did, too, so I just assumed this was normal teen knowledge. We didn't think the whole world would end, though, just us as individuals. We simply could not see living that long. It coloured everything I did. Most people who assume they'll be dead by 30 don't bother going to university, for example.

shelivesthedream

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2015, 11:00:51 AM »
So it seems a lot of people are actually somewhat concerned by the potential of a terrorist attack etc? As in you guys actually think about this on a regular basis and this is impacting your lives?

NO. Absolutely not. It almost never enters my active mind on a day-to-day basis. Maybe I haven't been clear about the distinction I am making between something being part of your general philosophical framework/epistemology/worldview, and something being an active part of your life.

People who grew up during the cold war did things like go to university, get jobs, get married, have children - would you do that if the thought of imminent nuclear holocaust occupied your every waking hour? People may have thought the world would end by the time they were thirty, but thinking something and *thinking about* something are different.

I don't mean to suggest that Millenials spend their time biting their fingernails over the imminent economic collapse, or that they tremble in fear every time they see an Arab with a beard on the bus. I would imagine most hardly ever really think about any of that. However, the general background of our lives is filled with doom, gloom and nihilism.

We are told, both explicitly in a lot of media outlets and implicitly:
- Your GCSEs and A Levels are worthless, but you still have to learn everything and take the exams, even though a glance at the education section of a newspaper makes it quite clear that no one in authority thinks what you are learning has any worth or equips you for the future. But you revise and try hard for the exams anyway.
- Your degree is worthless and you might as well not bother because you won't learn anything of consequence. But you still take out student loans to get the degree.
- You grew up on the internet so your brains are addled, you can't write and can't concentrate and you're too obsessed with technology to know anything.
- You won't be able to get a job because too many people are going to university and there's a recession.
- You'll never buy a house because they cost too much and you won't be able to save for a deposit because you'll be unemployed because you'll never get a job.
- There won't be any money left or the NHS when you get to pension age, and you don't deserve unemployment or housing benefits now, but you still have to pay your taxes.

Etc, etc. There is no one who is painting a positive future for our generation. We are basically told we have nothing to look forward to. This is the largely ignored backdrop to our world. I'm not saying any of it is genuinely true, but we are being relentlessly told that we are lazy, stupid, not useful members of society...

I read a blog post once, not sure where, and the author said:
1. Middle aged people are saying that young people are stupid, lazy and not equipped for the world of work. Degrees mean nothing any more. That is why they can't employ them at the companies they own and have them do endless unpaid internships.
2. These young people are the same age as their children.
3. But their children are not stupid, lazy, and unequipped for the world of work. Their children must get a degree! Their children are perfect and deserve so much more than an endless stream of unpaid internships. Even though their children are the same as the lazy people in point 1.

I'm putting it very badly, but it was basically about double standards when applied to a generation as a whole and the specific example of your own children. And why middle aged people cannot see that as parents/as a generation they have made their children whatever they are, so why are they complaining? Obviously it was mainly about the middle classes.

mozar

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2015, 11:20:43 AM »
I also thought I would die young. This is because I lived in a very unsafe neighborhood growing up. Young people I knew were literally dying regularly.
I think it is possible that violence is getting more random. The number of domestic terrorist attacks (think on movie theatres and schools) has been increasing since the 70's. But war, domestic violence, theft etc have all been going down. I think also the problem is the media keeps becoming more shrill to compete and get more readers/watchers.
I can understand why people feel less safe now though because you could just avoid the news years ago, and it's a lot harder now. There is "in depth" reporting everywhere.

And the older generation is always saying mean things about the young generation. I think coverage of the millennials has been surprisingly nuanced. When the baby boomers were teenagers/young adults, the WWII generation was horrified. The baby boomers were literally all drug addicts having sex and with long hair.
Scrubby fish you are gen x. But giving names to generations is a marketing ploy made up in the USA to create distinct demographics. So I wouldn't worry about it.

scottish

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2015, 03:06:48 PM »
This sounds like Logan's Run.   When you turned 28, that was it.   You had to die for the benefit of society.  They even had a crystal implanted in your hand that started flashing red and black on your 'lastday', so everyone would know.  I don't remember thinking I'd be dead before 30 in the 80's.  I remember thinking 30 was freakin' old, but not that we'd be dead.

I don't know why people give millennials such a hard time.  You're people just like everybody else.  In my last job, I hired a millennial as a co-op student every term.  Some of them were better than our full time staff.  I know one of them went on to start his own company rather than work for the man.  When I was that age, lots of us complained about our sorry lot in life.  And the older generation complained about us.   "Damn kids can't do math anymore."   Wah wah wah.  I don't think things are all that different.

As for terrorism?  What terrorism?  I think we've had 4 deaths from terrorism in Canada last year and maybe 75000 deaths from cancer.  I wish the government would spend the anti-terrorism money on something more useful.   Unfortunately this is an election year and the platform is that only the incumbents can save us from terrorism.   I expect to hear lots more about terrorism, now that the 'firm hand on the tiller of the economy' platform isn't going to work.

Hank Sinatra

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2015, 04:20:24 PM »
I don't know why people give millennials such a hard time.

I was born in 1957 making me nominally a "boomer" altho I don't identify as that. I  relate more to, what in recent years has been termed "Generation Jones"

Anyway I grew up hearing the same things directed at me and my cohort by The Greediest Generation that are being thrown at X'ers, Y'ers, Millenials.....  Old people never feel good unless they are beating up on somebody. They are trying to lie about history and lie themselves into heaven. I suppose because in the 2-minute warning of their lives they realize they've screwed the pooch and seek to avoid blame.

sheepstache

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2015, 08:05:29 PM »
You may not be aware of this, but baby boomers had drills in grade school called "duck and cover".  No generation of US children since has had to imagine the possibility and horror of nuclear war on a daily basis.  So consider yourself lucky there.

In middle school, I vividly remember my principal coming over the loudspeaker and telling us two planes hit the Twin Towers in the city and watched my friend be led out of the classroom sobbing. If you're lucky to live close enough to a nuclear power plant like me, you've heard the sirens tested once a week and have experienced that fear of when they go off unexpectedly. In high school we had four bomb scares. We had multiple drills to prepare us if a shooter entered our school. We watched the installation of metal detectors and the implementation of school police officers.

You may not be aware of this, but every generation goes through terrifying shit. I'd say it's rather stupid to compare apples to apples here, or play the game 'which generation had it worse.'

But I think in their full post that's the same point BlueHouse is making.

Paul der Krake

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2015, 08:26:07 PM »
NO. Absolutely not. It almost never enters my active mind on a day-to-day basis. Maybe I haven't been clear about the distinction I am making between something being part of your general philosophical framework/epistemology/worldview, and something being an active part of your life.
Amen. I had to lookup the exact years of the Paris and London bombings. So much for terrorizing, it made such a little impact on my life that I can't remember such a simple thing as the year they occurred even though I lived there in both instances at the time.

mozar

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2015, 08:50:53 PM »
Logan's run...what a weird movie.

Sibley

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2015, 12:15:52 PM »
In my experience virtually everyone is bad at math and bad with money.   (including myself)  Even those that are semi good with math and money tend to believe that saving 10% is somehow great.

I'm an accountant and I do not do mental math. Ever.

mozar

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2015, 08:21:57 PM »
Quote
I'm an accountant and I do not do mental math. Ever.

Lol! That's what calculators are for.

Nords

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2015, 04:56:34 PM »
Yahoo did what I thought was a (rare for it) perfectly sound list of financial smart moves.
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/12-millennial-inspired-ways-spend-150312751.html

Most of the 29 comments so far essentially insist we Mustachians don't exist, that it's all impossible, yadda yadda. In the meantime, I guess those commenting just keep spiralling into debt...   Interesting to see tips spelled out and most just getting up in arms.
Lets look at something else from the same website then shall we?

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/tales-early-retirement-path-3-people-took-152905901.html

Nords has popped up in this one too...

Quote
For the Detrichs, the key to retiring early was cutting expenses as well as trading an expensive home for a cheaper one. When they moved to Panama, he estimated that they could live for 40 percent less than they did in California. Costs have risen, but he estimates they still spend 30 percent.

Quote
Nords didn't set out to retire at 41. As he got ready to leave his military career with the U.S. Navy's submarine force after 20 years, he surveyed other career options. But after years of 50- to 60-hour weeks or being on-call for weeks at a time, the last thing he wanted to do was essentially the same work in the civilian sector.
"There was a certain amount of burnout," Nordman says. "I don't know what I want to do when I grow up, but it wasn't this." He remembers thinking, "I just really want to go surfing for a while."
He and his wife, Marge, a Navy meteorologist/oceanographer, had a 9-year-old daughter, Carol, who they wanted to spend more time with. After doing some math, he realized they could afford to live on his military pension and Marge's earnings with the U.S. Navy Reserve, plus investment and rental property income.
What made early retirement possible for them was the frugal lifestyle they had embraced since they were married in 1986 and the savings habit he started from the time he stashed away $25 from his first paycheck after college.

Quote
Stan Kimer always hoped to retire early. To that end, he started saving early, maxing out his 401(k) from his corporate job at IBM, investing in company stock and living below his means so he could build up assets.
Thanks.  Teresa's a great freelance journalist and a friend.  I've been responding to a lot more of these media requests, and I think the profiles & quotes are raising book sales. 

This is my second trip through Yahoo.  While the site is a great place to get blog traffic and more readers, the comments tend to be the best parts of the articles...

RetiredAt63

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2015, 02:17:51 PM »
Every generation has a different viewpoint, and so do those within each generation.  I grew up missing one set of grandparents (they died in the great Spanish Flu epidemic) and my mother had a bad heart (rheumatic fever when she was a child, no antibiotics) so the fact that diseases could kill us any time was in the background. 

Then the cold war - think Diefenbunker, now a tourist attraction, although we didn't do the hide under the desk thing in Quebec.  No children's movies in Quebec from 1927 to 1961 because of a fire at a children's matinee that killed 78 children (Google "Laurier Palace theatre fire" for the sad story). Then we were hippies and going to hell, you should have heard what my Dad said about the Beatles. Not many jobs, a friend born in 1940 apologized to me once about how easy it was for her generation (10 years ahead of mine) to get jobs, compared to us.

I taught from 1975 to 2013 - I had good students, great students and lazy students in every year. 18-23 year old students were pretty consistent over the years, it is an age function more than a generation function.

But you know, negative stories are news, everyone is fine and doing what you would expect is not news, doesn't get an audience.

NoraLenderbee

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2015, 05:36:15 PM »


Perhaps a positive thing about Millenials is that they may all be broke but at least they admit it. The baby boomers (although this is highly coloured by the Overheard at Work thread!) are basically bankrupt but pretend otherwise and perhaps don't even realise how big a hole they're in. My generation knows they are screwed! They spend their last penny on the latest iphone but aren't afraid to admit that it is their last penny.

Your generalization about the boomers is every bit as insulting as the generalization that millenials are all lazy and selfish. As others have said, in every generation, the old think the young are shiftless and irresponsible, spoiled, weak, etc., etc. And the young often think that they have it worse than anybody. As a later boomer (born in 1962), I grew up in the 1970s, when it seemed as if the golden age of America had ended forever. Inflation was high, unemployment was high (including for people with advanced degrees), driving a car was unaffordable, the environment was ruined, the stock market was in its death throes, and mortgages were hitting 18%. Your generation certainly started out in a rough spot; you just aren't the only ones.

Lis

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2015, 02:07:49 PM »
Your generalization about the boomers is every bit as insulting as the generalization that millenials are all lazy and selfish.

This is why generalizations 1) just aren't correct, and 2) suck. It's just that, since millenials are the newest in the group, we're now getting the most crap.

Slight off topic, but I recently read an article by a Boomer regarding that student who rejected the college's rejection letter. If you read her response, it's very tongue in cheek and sarcastic, not mean to be taken seriously. But according to the author, this girl (who is only 17 or 18 now and probably doesn't have too much life experience yet) is a selfish, entitled, spoiled brat, and everyone who is applying to college now or has attended college in the past decade is also a selfish, entitled, spoiled brat. It's sad, but any time we try to stand up for ourselves, we're knocked down with the entitlement argument.

Dan_at_Home

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2015, 11:27:51 PM »
At least the baby boomers had a dream of peace, security and 2.4 children. We, according to most media, have nothing to look forward to.

As someone between GenX and Millenials, I am grateful every day that I was not forced to be drafted and fight in combat in my teens or 20s.  History tells us about the awful, horrible experiences some generations had to go through in fighting in our past wars.  Of course some people from our generation have choose to serve but at least we have a choice.

I find it curious that the media right now has so many articles out about the Millenials.  As for the negative news stories, don't take it too seriously because like some of the others have said already in this thread, it is really bad to try to generalization an age group.   

A generation is simply a collection of people born between certain years, there will be smart ones and dumb ones, financial winners and losers, some with good or bad qualities.  For example, just think about your highschool graduating class and the wide variety of personalities, and types of people included in such a group and how many different directions each ended going after they left school.

Most likely, the media just has nothing else to talk about right now.  The journalist need to turn out stories one way or another to make their deadlines.  As least the link to this story offers some good financial advice. 
« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 11:37:53 PM by Dan_at_Home »

Thedudeabides

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Re: article comments: we don't exist!
« Reply #42 on: April 24, 2015, 01:19:59 AM »
"The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise."

--Socrates