Author Topic: Are most of the members here high earners?  (Read 48245 times)

Cassie

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #150 on: April 01, 2014, 03:43:11 PM »
Great for you for avoiding getting caught so far!

warfreak2

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #151 on: April 01, 2014, 03:55:07 PM »
If he wants us to show up for meetings wearing Mickey Mouse ears and MC Hammer style parachute pants, we'll do it (if the money is right). 

Actually, that might make an otherwise boring meeting a lot more fun.
It's thinking like this that'll give you a long, lucrative career at Disney Hammertime Engineering Solutions Ltd.

libertarian4321

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #152 on: April 01, 2014, 04:29:41 PM »
Great for you for avoiding getting caught so far!

The penalties for getting "caught" calling yourself an engineer when you are an engineer are the same as when you get "caught" driving 60 mph in a 60 mph zone.

For my next criminal spree, I'm going to cross a street INSIDE the cross walk. 

I'm a wild man engineer, living on the ragged edge.

Disclaimer:  Living with this kind of risk is not for everyone.  Proceed with caution.

libertarian4321

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #153 on: April 01, 2014, 04:33:31 PM »
If he wants us to show up for meetings wearing Mickey Mouse ears and MC Hammer style parachute pants, we'll do it (if the money is right). 

Actually, that might make an otherwise boring meeting a lot more fun.
It's thinking like this that'll give you a long, lucrative career at Disney Hammertime Engineering Solutions Ltd.

Hopefully, I'd be setting a trend.

Let's face it, wearing a suit and tie isn't all that comfortable.

Hammer pants, along with a puffy silk shirt, look like they'd be really comfy.


Exflyboy

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #154 on: April 01, 2014, 06:20:35 PM »
Great for you for avoiding getting caught so far!

The penalties for getting "caught" calling yourself an engineer when you are an engineer are the same as when you get "caught" driving 60 mph in a 60 mph zone.



Plus (if you do that with a PE license and live in Oregon) fines starting at $500...:)

Frank

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #155 on: April 01, 2014, 06:24:53 PM »
Frank, you are absolutely right. I asked my hubby and he said there is title protection nationwide for civil engineers. If you are an engineer & work for an engineering firm you can not put engineer on your business card unless you have a PE.  Many just use other titles such as project manager, etc if they do not have a PE.  We know someone that can not pass the PE but has a civil engineering degree so she works as a eng technician.  The PE test is extremely difficult & many can never pass it.

That is simply NOT TRUE.

You can't put "PE" on your business card if you aren't current on your license.

But you can call yourself an engineer, put it on your card, put it on your email sig.  You can fly a flag from your car saying "I'm an engineer!"  You can hire a plane and to fly above a 4th of July crowd and sky-write "libertarian4321 is an engineer" in red, white and blue smoke.  All of this is perfectly legal.



NOT in Oregon it isn't (it is a violation of State law) and they ARE fining folks for doing EXACTLY this... Although flying the banner on the 4th of July method has not been tested as far as I know.

Frank

Cassie

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #156 on: April 01, 2014, 06:33:46 PM »
Frank, some people will never give up even though they are wrong.  Those disagreeing are either not really civil engineers or ignorant. Either way it does not matter.

MDM

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #157 on: April 01, 2014, 07:59:40 PM »
It appears we have some people arguing that the sky is blue, while others contradict that by swearing the grass is green.

Indeed, Oregon does have governmental agencies levying fines against people using the term "Professional Engineer" without getting Oregon's approval: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/or-court-of-appeals/1623157.html.

But that may be limited to Oregon.  Even in Oregon, and most likely everywhere else in the US, you have to be offering engineering services directly to the public to run afoul of such laws.  If you work as an engineer for a large company, doing engineering for a salary from that company, you can call yourself whatever said company allows.  More verbiage to this effect here.

Finally, the Oregon case seemed a case of governmental overreach to me.  Appears others think the same: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/25/1272423/-Oregon-Agency-Proposes-1000-Fine-Against-Freedom-of-Speech#.

libertarian4321

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #158 on: April 06, 2014, 01:46:56 AM »
Frank, some people will never give up even though they are wrong.  Those disagreeing are either not really civil engineers or ignorant. Either way it does not matter.

No, I'm not a civil engineer, which is the most basic kind of engineer.  I got my degrees in chemical and environmental engineering.  But you didn't specify that this (alleged) rule only pertained to civil engineering.

Like I said, I've been an engineer since 1985 (except for a 1 year period as a broker and 4 years of "early retirement").  I have held myself out as an engineer for those ~26 years, and have done work in just about every state, as well as a number of foreign countries.

It is NOT "illegal" to call yourself an "engineer" without a PE.  It IS illegal to call yourself a "PE" without a current PE license.  Can you understand the difference?

If it was "illegal" to do so, do you think I could have worked for major nationwide/international consulting firms like Booz Allen Hamilton and SAIC (as well as the US Army and a number of smaller firms) calling myself an engineer? 

Yeesh, you are so set in insisting that you are "right" based on a (probably misinterpreted) dinner conversation with your husband that you will not have lost all sense of reason.

If it was a "violation," don't you think SOMEONE (my employers, my PE coworkers, the regulatory agencies, the "board," the government, my opponents when I ran for Congress" might have mentioned it by now?

Maybe there is some squirrely little state where it is illegal, but I doubt it.  I've done consulting work in just about every state in the USA at some point or another (other than Rhode Island, I've never worked there- there might be one or two small states where I've never worked), as well as several US territories and Korea, Germany, England, Belgium, Italy, Canada, Mexico, the Netherlands, Japan, Iraq, and Turkey.

I'll tell you what, if you are so darned sure that you are right, please cite the law that says you are right and I'm wrong.  I'm currently living in San Antonio, Texas, if you want to search state and local codes.  If you can show me that I'm doing something illegal, I'll take "engineer" out of my title, my email, my business cards, and even my Congressional campaign web site.  Fair enough?  I'm sure I can come up with a more impressive title than "engineer" if I need to.

The really funny thing is, I don't even like engineering (which is one of the reasons I "retired early" before going back to work again a couple of years back).  It's simple, straight forward, uncreative work, and about as exciting as watching the grass grow.  Though it pays reasonably well. 

I'd rather give myself a cooler title.  Something with pizzaz.  Maybe "Assistant to the Regional Manager."

So as you can imagine, I eagerly await your reply.

libertarian4321

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #159 on: April 06, 2014, 01:56:38 AM »
It appears we have some people arguing that the sky is blue, while others contradict that by swearing the grass is green.

Indeed, Oregon does have governmental agencies levying fines against people using the term "Professional Engineer" without getting Oregon's approval: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/or-court-of-appeals/1623157.html.

But that may be limited to Oregon.  Even in Oregon, and most likely everywhere else in the US, you have to be offering engineering services directly to the public to run afoul of such laws.  If you work as an engineer for a large company, doing engineering for a salary from that company, you can call yourself whatever said company allows.  More verbiage to this effect here.

Finally, the Oregon case seemed a case of governmental overreach to me.  Appears others think the same: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/25/1272423/-Oregon-Agency-Proposes-1000-Fine-Against-Freedom-of-Speech#.

The operative words there are "professional engineer" (PE).

You can't call yourself a "professional engineer" in a state where you don't hold a current PE license.

But you CAN call yourself an "engineer" "junior engineer" "senior engineer" "consulting engineer" "master engineer" "king of engineers" "engineer guy" "head engineer" "engineering manager" "managing engineer" "porn engineer"  "train engineer" or "engineer/ master debator."

I'm not sure why some of the other folks on this thread are having such a hard time understanding this. 




arebelspy

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #160 on: April 06, 2014, 01:58:48 AM »
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with two kids.
If you want to know more about us, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
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Russ

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #161 on: April 06, 2014, 09:33:26 AM »
one of my friends at work occasionally signs his emails "Ultimate Design Engineer"

derekh

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #162 on: April 06, 2014, 10:48:28 AM »
Don't worry- you are not alone.  In fact, I imagine that my boyfriend and I are too of the lowest non-student earners.

He earns 10k on an annualized basis, I earn 6k on an annualized basis.

Sometimes it is really difficult but we hope to double that within 5 years!

Gin1984

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #163 on: April 06, 2014, 10:57:24 AM »
Yeah, I often feel out of the normal demographic here- I made just over 30,000 last year. I'm saving about 38% of my income, but I am unsure if could get to 50% without doing something very drastic. I suppose I could ditch my (paid for) car...

Yeah, one big difference is having a partner who is on board and also earning.

That's really accelerated my time to FI.  I started making a similar amount to you, mid-30ks (teacher), and spent similar to you.  The big difference is that I also had (and still have) a spouse.  That pushed our spending to low 20s instead of high teens (like you), but we could basically live on 2/3 of one income (like you) and save the other 1/3 of the first income (like you), but then also save all of the second income, which gave us about a 66% savings rate (which was boosted to 70-75% with side income earned, eventual pay raises to about 40k each after getting Master's Degrees, etc. etc.)

A spouse on board only raising your spending by a few thousand but adding a whole extra income to save is FIRE lighter fluid.
Or no children, lol.  We live on my husband's income, my income pays for daycare, extra taxes and investing.  Our rental pays for savings and additional debt repayment. 

dragoncar

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #164 on: April 06, 2014, 06:55:06 PM »

It is NOT "illegal" to call yourself an "engineer" without a PE.  It IS illegal to call yourself a "PE" without a current PE license.  Can you understand the difference?
...

Maybe there is some squirrely little state where it is illegal, but I doubt it. 

...

I'll tell you what, if you are so darned sure that you are right, please cite the law that says you are right and I'm wrong.  I'm currently living in San Antonio, Texas, if you want to search state and local codes.  If you can show me that I'm doing something illegal, I'll take "engineer" out of my title, my email, my business cards, and even my Congressional campaign web site.  Fair enough?  I'm sure I can come up with a more impressive title than "engineer" if I need to.

To be fair, skunkfunk did cite an example from OK (below), which in my opinion does count as a "squirrely little state."  On its face, the statute does seem to regulate the sole word "engineer," but this is the first time I've heard of such a broad rule.

From my state board's statutes -

"In order to safeguard life, health and property, and to promote the public welfare, the practice of engineering and the practice of land surveying in this state are hereby declared to be subject to regulation in the public interest. It shall be unlawful to practice or to offer to practice engineering or land surveying in this state, as defined in the provisions of Section 475.1 et seq. of this title, or to use in connection with any name or otherwise assume or advertise any title or description tending to convey the impression that any person is an engineer, professional engineer, land surveyor or professional land surveyor, unless such person has been duly licensed under the provisions of Section 475.1 et seq. of this title. The practice of engineering or land surveying shall be deemed a privilege granted by the state through the State Board of Licensure for Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors, based on the qualifications of the individual as evidenced by a certificate of licensure, which shall not be transferable."

http://www.ok.gov/pels/Regulations/Statutes/index.html

And yeah, they do actually hit people with fines for it. They are usually firms that had their licenses lapse or contractors trying to get away with not having a proper engineer. By that definition I'm a designer, not an engineer, though colloquially I still tell people I'm an engineer.

I've only checked CA, but I think the vast majority of states follow the NCEES model law phrasing which only regulates "licensed engineer:"

Quote
t shall be unlawful for any person to practice, or to offer to practice, engineering and/or surveying in this jurisdiction, as defined in the provisions of this Act, or to use in connection with their name or otherwise assume, or advertise any title or description tending to convey the impression that they are a licensed engineer and/or surveyor.

libertarian4321

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #165 on: April 07, 2014, 02:05:50 PM »

I've only checked CA, but I think the vast majority of states follow the NCEES model law phrasing which only regulates "licensed engineer:"

Quote
t shall be unlawful for any person to practice, or to offer to practice, engineering and/or surveying in this jurisdiction, as defined in the provisions of this Act, or to use in connection with their name or otherwise assume, or advertise any title or description tending to convey the impression that they are a licensed engineer and/or surveyor.

Exactly.  Aside from ensuring that the person who stamps certain documents meets certain qualifications, a big reason for the license procedures is to prevent deception of a potential customer/client as to whether the person has a license or not.  This is especially important if you hang a shingle and try to sell your services to people.

But there are hundreds of thousands of engineers in this country who work as engineers and call themselves engineer (but not "licensed" or "professional" engineers.

In my experience the lack of licensed engineers is especially notable in State governments and the Federal government (and among consultants to those agencies), where you will find that a huge percentage of the engineers are not professional engineers, largely because there is no need for the certification (at least in my field of engineering)- they are very few documents in my field requiring a PE stamp, and even when one is necessary, only the team leader, who actually rubber stamps the final document/plans/drawings needs a PE.

If you are a civil engineer who builds bridges for a living, you would probably want to have a PE.  However, if you are an environmental engineer working compliance/regulation/remediation/oversight, you will find that you rarely, if ever, need it.

Anyway, I apologize for my part in hijacking this thread and taking it off course with all this engineering talk.   Lets get back to discussing earnings.

gecko10x

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #166 on: April 07, 2014, 02:44:34 PM »

Anyway, I apologize for my part in hijacking this thread and taking it off course with all this engineering talk.   Lets get back to discussing earnings.

Maybe a mod can split the engineering discussion off to another thread to clean this one up? (wish there was a way to @mention people)

Russ

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #167 on: April 07, 2014, 02:49:50 PM »
try this

dragoncar

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #168 on: April 07, 2014, 02:54:45 PM »
try this

Back on topic, who here likes Annie and french house music?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2014, 02:57:56 PM by dragoncar »

happy

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #169 on: April 07, 2014, 03:04:41 PM »
Skar is popular here. Usually playing it driving.

avonlea

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #170 on: April 07, 2014, 03:20:47 PM »
try this

I gotta admit, Russ, that clicking on the "Report to moderator" feature was almost equivalent to "Call the police" in my mind.  Nice to know that we are encouraged to use the feature for more than just a 9-1-1 situation.

gecko10x

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #171 on: April 07, 2014, 03:25:16 PM »
try this

I gotta admit, Russ, that clicking on the "Report to moderator" feature was almost equivalent to "Call the police" in my mind.  Nice to know that we are encouraged to use the feature for more than just a 9-1-1 situation.

That is what I thought as well, but thanks for pointing it out as an option.

Still wish this forum software had @mention functionality though ;-)

Russ

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #172 on: April 07, 2014, 03:42:52 PM »
try this

Back on topic, who here likes Annie and french house music?

NOT ME

dragoncar

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #173 on: April 07, 2014, 06:33:22 PM »
try this

I gotta admit, Russ, that clicking on the "Report to moderator" feature was almost equivalent to "Call the police" in my mind.  Nice to know that we are encouraged to use the feature for more than just a 9-1-1 situation.

I won't use that option because I don't want the mods knowing my email address.  I guess I could just change the email address in my profile, and they could probably dig it out of the forum records somehow anyways... but I'm still a bit paranoid.  I'm not trying to imply that they even care.

happy

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #174 on: April 08, 2014, 02:28:23 AM »
This came as an issue for me also Dragoncar: true confessions now: I was going to report you to the mods re your April fools thread as another layer to the joke, but didn't because of the email warning.  I guess one could pm one of the moderators instead if one was concerned re the email?

dragoncar

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #175 on: April 08, 2014, 02:44:16 AM »
This came as an issue for me also Dragoncar: true confessions now: I was going to report you to the mods re your April fools thread as another layer to the joke, but didn't because of the email warning.  I guess one could pm one of the moderators instead if one was concerned re the email?

Yeah, I assume reporting is somehow faster, but I think a PM would do it.  The mods are pretty on the ball, though, so they tend to catch things even without my report.  Did you really want to report an April Fools joke?  I don't think that's against the rules :-P

happy

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #176 on: April 08, 2014, 03:05:47 AM »
No no, I was going to report it as a joke, as part of the joke. No offence intended I love your sense of humour.

arebelspy

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #177 on: April 08, 2014, 07:26:51 AM »
If you want to hide on the Internet you create anonymous, separate emails for everything, only connect on clean computers in incognito mode that go through VPNs / proxies.

If you don't have a reason to be that paranoid, the report to moderator button isn't going to change how findable you are or not.  I mean, by all means, do whatever you want, but I'm just saying, if you're that worried about internet security, you've probably got bigger fish to fry.

an April Fools joke?  I don't think that's against the rules :-P

Yet.

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dragoncar

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #178 on: April 08, 2014, 12:19:01 PM »
If you want to hide on the Internet you create anonymous, separate emails for everything, only connect on clean computers in incognito mode that go through VPNs / proxies.

If you don't have a reason to be that paranoid, the report to moderator button isn't going to change how findable you are or not.  I mean, by all means, do whatever you want, but I'm just saying, if you're that worried about internet security, you've probably got bigger fish to fry.


Yeah, it's not really rational.  Still, I'm not going to click the button.  (Nice try, Internet police)

happy

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #179 on: April 09, 2014, 03:04:23 AM »
Quote
A silent voice is as powerless as a silenced one.

Now I see why you have this in your signature.

Still I'm not going to press the button either.

arebelspy

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #180 on: April 09, 2014, 07:16:24 AM »
Now I see why you have this in your signature.

I don't see the connection.

The quote is because I think people ought to stand up for what is right.
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HairyUpperLip

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #181 on: April 09, 2014, 07:19:30 AM »
Just shy of $100k here. 96.5k. I don't believe its "high earner" status though personally.

arebelspy

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #182 on: April 09, 2014, 07:31:21 AM »
Just shy of $100k here. 96.5k. I don't believe its "high earner" status though personally.

It is. 

In the same way that people making 350k annually with a net worth of 4MM think of themselves as "middle class," you may not think of yourself as a high earner, but you are.  (That's not a bad thing.)  :)
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with two kids.
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EconDiva

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #183 on: April 09, 2014, 09:50:04 AM »
I make about $80k/yr annualized, but I have three jobs. I was at work at 8, worked for 45 minutes, walked downtown, will work here until 6 tonight, head back uptown, and work from 6:30-10:30. It's nice, because I just keep sweeping money into my savings account, but I get about one day off a month.

Mind sharing what these three jobs are? Do you have to drive to all of them?

Cheddar Stacker

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #184 on: April 09, 2014, 11:14:22 AM »
By "in the 20's" and "in the 50's" are you referring to streets? Like 20th street and 50th street?

At first I thought this was your wage, but you're talking location correct?

Albert

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #185 on: April 09, 2014, 11:20:07 AM »
I'm definitely a high earner and very grateful for it. Particularly since I manage it with a standard 45-50 h job and very generous time off (ca 9 weeks).

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #186 on: April 09, 2014, 11:39:10 AM »
Newly converted Mustacian chiming in. I guess the concept of 'high earner' is relative. I make what I consider a slightly below average income for the area that I live in, but a slightly above average income for my profession due to moving to this area. $60,000 Canadian gross (about 43,200 after taxes/deductions.)

Most entry level professionals in this city make between 80-90K a year gross salary.


HairyUpperLip

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #187 on: April 09, 2014, 03:34:41 PM »
Just shy of $100k here. 96.5k. I don't believe its "high earner" status though personally.

It is. 

In the same way that people making 350k annually with a net worth of 4MM think of themselves as "middle class," you may not think of yourself as a high earner, but you are.  (That's not a bad thing.)  :)

hah, appreciate the positive words. I'm very happy with what I do currently earn.. Just wish it was more so I could save/invest more. ;)

happy

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #188 on: April 09, 2014, 04:52:25 PM »
Now I see why you have this in your signature.

I don't see the connection.

The quote is because I think people ought to stand up for what is right.

I was quipping. Since your cartoon was intimating at some point we may not be able to joke.

arebelspy

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Re: Are most of the members here high earners?
« Reply #189 on: April 09, 2014, 06:11:09 PM »
Now I see why you have this in your signature.

I don't see the connection.

The quote is because I think people ought to stand up for what is right.

I was quipping. Since your cartoon was intimating at some point we may not be able to joke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhu3NTOHz-M
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