Are all Dishwasher brands bad now?

[tlars699]

I don't understand the whole "Doing dishes by hand uses up WAY more water than a dishwasher" argument.

Seriously: 1-2 gallon hot (nearly scalding) water reserved in the sink- about 1 Tablespoon of good dish detergent.
Soak/scrub until other sink/tub is full of clean but soapy dishes.
Rinse with hot water for about 30 seconds. Stack dishes into drying rack.
Repeat cycle until no more dishes(you don't refill the wash sink each time). You may have to use 1Tbs more soap about 2 cycles in, and you soak all pots and pans for about 10 minutes, stacked with biggest on the bottom, to smallest on top (also conserves volume of water used this way)
Seriously, if I use more than 7 gallons this way, I'd be floored.
How much water does your average dishwasher use? 15?

[dycker1978]

What people don't understand about modern detergent, is not to rinse the dishes... That is right you heard that correctly.  If you scrape the dishes, and remove all of the big chunks of food and such, then wash them in the dishwasher, the oil remains from you food actually reacts with the detergent and creates a weak acid, helping to clean your dishes.

Another thing that happens some times, is that your water is to hot.  What, you say, to hot how can that be.  Since soap manufactures have been mandated to use no phosphate, because the environmental damages were deemed to great, they have started using an enzyme in the soap.  Enzyme are an organism, that is alive, and in simplistic terms "eat" the food particles off out your dishes.  If you have your water over 130 f then these enzymes start to die, doing a less favorable job.  Anything over 145-150 and they all die, leaving your soap as a useless mess of fragrance.   This is also true if the water is to cold.  The cold water will not activate the enzymes, causing the same issue.

To test this, run hot water out of your tap for 2 minutes or so.  Use a thermometer in the water stream.  It should be between 115-125.  If it is not, adjust your water heater to compensate.  This will also provide you with some energy savings, not having to heat the water so much.

Oh - one more this - this applies equally to front load machines, but they have the added need of HE soap.  Yes it does mater.  No HE soap will foam to much, causing smell and soap residue on your clothes.

I know this will get a lot of resistance here, because, well because that is how we roll on an internet site.  We are all experts in everything... But I actually owned and operated a appliance repair business for many years.  I have seen the results.

[GuitarStv]

I don't understand the whole "Doing dishes by hand uses up WAY more water than a dishwasher" argument.

Seriously: 1-2 gallon hot (nearly scalding) water reserved in the sink- about 1 Tablespoon of good dish detergent.
Soak/scrub until other sink/tub is full of clean but soapy dishes.
Rinse with hot water for about 30 seconds. Stack dishes into drying rack.
Repeat cycle until no more dishes(you don't refill the wash sink each time). You may have to use 1Tbs more soap about 2 cycles in, and you soak all pots and pans for about 10 minutes, stacked with biggest on the bottom, to smallest on top (also conserves volume of water used this way)
Seriously, if I use more than 7 gallons this way, I'd be floored.
How much water does your average dishwasher use? 15?

Energy star dishwashers use under 5.8.

[NoraLenderbee]

Canada banned phosphates in dishwashing detergent in 2010.  Our dishwasher cleans our dishes well with the cheapest detergent that Costco sells.  Maybe the issue isn't 'mother government' but 'user error'?

Pff. That's Canada. Of course it couldn't possibly work in the US, just like healthcare.

[infogoon]

Canada banned phosphates in dishwashing detergent in 2010.  Our dishwasher cleans our dishes well with the cheapest detergent that Costco sells.  Maybe the issue isn't 'mother government' but 'user error'?

Pff. That's Canada. Of course it couldn't possibly work in the US, just like healthcare.

It works better because the dishes are all metric.

[theoverlook]

And we also tried to remember that we have pretty high expectations. I know from experience that many people just put up with or don't even notice the things that bother us. The smell I don't like is a kind of "wet dog" smell, particularly when the plates/cutlery/glasses are later in contact with liquids. But some people aren't bothered too much by that smell. It doesn't happen too often now that things come out of the dishwasher that actually still look dirty (which I guess most people would probably object to).

Hmm, now that you mention it some detergents left a smell on the dishes that drove my wife crazy.  One that she likes is the Trader Joe's pellets - they seemed to leave no smell at all.  However they did leave a white film on some plastic ware like the Snapware food storage containers we had.  But if you don't use much plastic that might not be an issue.

Have you tried different detergents?

[iris lily]

This may be kind of random, but in my last quest to get a dishwasher that works, I learned the following: With very soft water use only a little soap. A glass expert told me that too much soap combined with soft water was causing permanent damage to my clear glassware.

[guitar_stitch]

Enzyme are an organism, that is alive, and in simplistic terms "eat" the food particles off out your dishes.

Enzymes are not living organisms.

[MaryHarper]

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[Cranky]

Consumer Reports seems to think that even inexpensive dishwashers do a pretty good job these days.

That said, I've got a Bosch that's a couple of years old now, and I like it. I don't find it super quiet, but it's fine. We did have problems at first - it wouldn't drain properly and didn't seem to be finishing the cycle - and the repairman said we needed to use the Finish tablets as they are "less foamy". Evidently "more foamy" will confuse the sensors. So, no problems since that.

I cook a LOT, and in a household of 3 adults and 2 cats, I run that dishwasher at least once/day. Any pan that is really gross I soak and handwash, but I just toss everything else in and it comes out really, really clean.

[Pigeon]

We have a Bosch 800 series with the top rack.  I don't tend to put a ton of things in the top rack, but I do use it some.  I scrape dishes, but mostly don't pre-rinse.  I use Finish tabs and rinse aid.  The machine is so quiet you can barely tell it is running and I have had no problem with dishes not being clean.

[zolotiyeruki]

Just spent an hour last night working on a friend's $800 dishwasher.  It's toast.  Sadly, these days that extra cost seems to only buy you extra (useless) features and *maybe* some efficiency, but also higher failure rates and more expensive repairs ($250 control panel!?).

[Raenia]

Since soap manufactures have been mandated to use no phosphate, because the environmental damages were deemed to great, they have started using an enzyme in the soap.  Enzyme are an organism, that is alive, and in simplistic terms "eat" the food particles off out your dishes.  If you have your water over 130 f then these enzymes start to die, doing a less favorable job.  Anything over 145-150 and they all die, leaving your soap as a useless mess of fragrance.   This is also true if the water is to cold.  The cold water will not activate the enzymes, causing the same issue.

Not to be pedantic, but enzymes are not organisms and are not alive.  They are complexly folded proteins that chop up other proteins.  High temperatures denature (unfold) the protein structure, which yes, causes them to be unable to do their job.

[LadyMuMu]

My people! I bought a new Kenmore/Whirlpool dishwasher 3 or so years ago when the racks that came with the dishwasher that came with the house were disintegrating it. New racks would have cost about $350 so I decided to spring for a mid-level Kenmore--about $700 when on sale. It was the same model sort of that we had in our old house. 2.5 years in the thing started leaking. Repair guy came 3 times, replaced some parts but still leaks. They basically gave up on me. I went online and researched the hell out of it. Replaced a few things. Now the leak is much smaller. I can limp along like this until we save up for a new one.

Lesson learned: buy at simple dishwasher without all the whistles and bells. Replace racks before replace a functioning dishwasher.

[GizmoTX]

We've been using 2 identical Miele dishwashers since 2007, the then midline Excella model, & we're still completely pleased with them. This is a case where spending more has really paid off, IMO. When it runs, it's so quiet we've taken to snapping a clothespin on the handle to flag that it's being used. (There's a run light, but it's integrated with a cabinet front, so it's harder to see.) Since the machine does not use a heating ring to dry, we can put anything anywhere in it, no "top rack only". There's a 3rd rack for cutlery, which saves so much room, gets them so much cleaner, & are a snap to unload. Hooks to cold water for a safe china & glassware cycle. We scrape but don't pre rinse. The only service call we've had is when a family member mistakenly put too much detergent in. We now use the Miele tabs & cut them in half -- the product isn't cheap but does a fantastic job & eliminates user error. We had to replace one of the trap baskets this year because it became defective -- it was diagnosed easily over the phone, ordered, & I installed it myself.

[KungfuRabbit]

Low end dishwashers are a waste of money.

You have two options:

-go on Craigslist and find a dishwasher from the 80s and repair it

-buy a high end dishwasher.

I'm going to get 1,000 face punches for this, and I deserve them, but we bought a Thermadore appliance package (with a Bosch fridge) and the dishwasher is amazing. Amazing. 2 week old dried on food - check. Peanut butter or cheese - check. We don't rinse (aside from big chunks) or pre clean at all, and 99% of dishes come out spotless (I'd say every other load there is one random knife or plate with some small residue on it...).  Thermadore Saphire specifically, but $1,500 (though "free" due to sale buying the range / oven / microwave).

[kimmarg]

Wow you guys are making me happy with my dishwasher! we have a maytag that came with the house when we moved in. I'd guess it's at least 10 years old. I don't belive in pre-rinsing it's called a dishWASHer, let it wash. I do scrap food off into trash.   I use liquid soap not the silly pellet things because it's cheaper. I also only put in about half the soap because it seems to work fine and I'm cheap.  Only thing I don't like is that despite the "heated dry" setting being OFF it seems to always heat stuff up. I usually try to stop it and pop it open at the end so it doesn't run the heating part but sometimes I'm not home and miss it. 

Overall the mandated water saving things kind of annoy me. I get it some places have serious water problems. I have so much water I don't know what to do with it because I live in an almost rain forst. I had a rain barrel but what can you do with the water?? I'd just end up dumping it once a week or so. I feel a bit guilty from an environmental standpoint but at $15/month water bill spending money on things that save water does not make financial sense!

[Spork]

Low end dishwashers are a waste of money.

You have two options:

-go on Craigslist and find a dishwasher from the 80s and repair it

-buy a high end dishwasher.

I'm going to get 1,000 face punches for this, and I deserve them, but we bought a Thermadore appliance package (with a Bosch fridge) and the dishwasher is amazing. Amazing. 2 week old dried on food - check. Peanut butter or cheese - check. We don't rinse (aside from big chunks) or pre clean at all, and 99% of dishes come out spotless (I'd say every other load there is one random knife or plate with some small residue on it...).  Thermadore Saphire specifically, but $1,500 (though "free" due to sale buying the range / oven / microwave).

Our lowish end Bosch seems to be doing fine.  Our mid-to-high end Whirlpool required multiple repairs and finally died at the age of 4.

I know nothing about Thermadore dishwashers... though I've heard no end of complaints on their stoves.

And yeah... the 80s dishwashers (and before) are pretty much bullet proof if you can get parts.  This is true of most appliances.