Author Topic: Anyone miss their smartphone?  (Read 26445 times)

justajane

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #50 on: September 11, 2014, 06:10:54 AM »
[....] Lord knows I spend way too much time in front of screens already while I'm at home. At the very least, I like being able to be focused on the world around me while I'm physically out in it. [...]

On the other hand...

As a 20-something who's trying to make social and professional connections in a world whose desires and expectations are largely beyond my control, I'm finding it increasingly difficult to function without a smartphone. Not because of my wants, but because of everyone else's. [...]

So as far as the topic at hand goes, I'm not sure what to recommend. Living without a smartphone is easy. Living without a smartphone in a culture where people act on the assumption that you do have one...that's getting tougher and tougher every day, unfortunately.

Very true. In my case, I already ignore my kids enough at home, I would hate to set up a mechanism with which I could ignore them when we are at the park as well :). The internet in all its iterations (laptops, phones, etc) is VERY addictive. I think the odds are entirely not in my favor that I would keep that phone in my purse while out and about. I don't think I would go so far as to rudely whip it out at lunch with a friend, but kids are admittedly tedious sometimes.

You and I have very similar opinions on this issue, and the past month or so has brought your second point about the surrounding culture home to me.  In my case, I don't even text or have my cell phone on ever, which means that when I meet a new friend, I still give them my home phone number. When I mention this (which I feel like I have to since they will try to text the number), they look at me like I have two heads. The reality is that I do not want to feel like a social pariah. It is getting to the point where I am embarrassed to whip out my ca. 2010 flip phone. I was at a children's museum with my son, and I wanted to take a picture on my phone of him cutely playing at an exhibit. But frankly, I was too embarrassed with all the moms with their expensive smartphones around. Yeah, yeah. I know I should own it, but it's hard.

I think my compromise for the time being will be to step up my use of my actual cell phone so that I can stop handing out my home phone. I actually like texting, but I do not reliably have my cell phone on, and when I do I often don't hear it. For those of you with $10 dumb phone plans, presumably these are Virgin Mobile paylo plans? If so, do you ever go over the $10 when you text? The fact that I am overpaying for a landline (I could explain those reasons another day) means that I don't want to pay more than $10 a month for the cell phone.

justajane

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #51 on: September 11, 2014, 06:30:26 AM »
I am going to start a thread under general discussion to discuss why those of us who still cling to our dumb phones choose to do so. I think I'll call it "Dumb phone users unite!" Feel welcome to join me over there! That way this OP's actual question can continue to be discussed without our semi-peripheral rants.

senecando

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #52 on: September 11, 2014, 07:51:52 AM »
Very true. In my case, I already ignore my kids enough at home, I would hate to set up a mechanism with which I could ignore them when we are at the park as well :).

This is insane.

justajane

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #53 on: September 11, 2014, 08:20:47 AM »
Quote
This is insane.

I'm hoping you mean insanely awesome. Otherwise, I'm guessing my hyperbolic joking was lost in the internet ether. Or, conversely, are you of the ilk that thinks that mothers and fathers should attend to the needs, however large or small, of their children for every second of every day? In that case, I can understand why MMM's post yesterday about why it's okay to have only one child (or conversely none) really becomes appealing for lots of people.

Would it make you more comfortable if I said I "ignored" them ((i.e. didn't cater to their every whim) ) while reading Dostoyevsky or Proust instead of while reading and commenting on MMM forums?

senecando

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #54 on: September 11, 2014, 08:27:14 AM »
I don't care much one way or the other about parenting. Nothing wrong with laissez-faire.

I'm just confused why the presence of a device in your pocket would change your parenting philosophy at all.

justajane

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #55 on: September 11, 2014, 08:52:41 AM »
Quote
I'm just confused why the presence of a device in your pocket would change your parenting philosophy at all.

Your presumption there is that we can choose a "philosophy" (although I'm not sure I would define my perspective in such formalized terms) and that technology would not intrude upon it. Here I fall back upon our admitted broken record, I.P. Daley. Study upon study have showed that certain types of technology are addictive. I went down the Candy Crush rabbit hole for a short time and experienced that first hand. I see what playing Terraria (an online game like Minecraft) on a tablet does to my son's thoughts. He has a limited time that he is allowed to play on it, but he spends the rest of the day talking and thinking about it.

Unlike others on this thread, I don't take offense at the idea that I somehow lack self-control and that's why I reject the technology, even as the price has gone down. The reality is that I do, and if you watch people in public these days, it's obvious that many people are like me. When they hear whatever sound their device makes to indicate whatever has happened on their phone, they cannot resist the urge to pick it up. Whether it's a Facebook notification or something on their Twitter feed, the urge to know is very strong indeed. In the past two hours, I have sat down from my housework multiple times to check on my computer if people have responded to my posts on this thread and the other. The urge to stay connected is extremely powerful.

If I were an automaton without weakness, yes, I could own a smartphone and never pull it out when I am at the park with my kids. I guess in that sense you are right. But right doesn't make realistic.
 
All of this makes me think of the hedonic treadmill and MMM's extreme catheter example. Well, I could have a catheter in and still get up to pee, right? But would I? And it begs the question, if I want to get up to pee anyway, why have the catheter in the first place? I know I'm straying from your original question about parenting, but in my mind it does relate.

I am glad that many on here have pointed out reasonable alternatives like not having a data plan. This is definitely food for thought for me and goes against the ways in which people I know use their phones.

innkeeper77

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #56 on: September 11, 2014, 08:53:00 AM »
No. For my personal life, I have been very hapy moving away from a smartphone. I went to a nice Nokia 301. Technically it has internet etc, but it's slow and I have literally never even set it up, so I couldn't use it right now if I wanted to. I use Airvoice Wireless on the $10 a month plan, which is way more than I need for texting. I have only gone over the limit once (costing me $20 a month for that month only- and getting me more credits) when I was job searching and had multiple long phone interviews.

HOWEVER- I find myself in the position of needing a smartphone again. Not for my personal uses, but I am getting more into Real Estate, investing and working, and that would be helped by a smartphone, most of my coworkers have them, and they are actually very handy. I would of course only use a low cost plan!

I am happy enough without a smartphone in my personal life that I would legitimately consider getting a separate smartphone for work only. However, that would be inconvenient, so I will probably just move over to a typical smartphone and keep my Nokia 301 for vacations etc, where I would not be working, and when the long battery life would be nice. (switching the SIM over for that time)

Sylly

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #57 on: September 11, 2014, 09:05:21 AM »
As for alarm clocks, are you kidding me?  You need to pay $100+ a month so your phone can be an alarm clock?  You know they sell those for $8.99 at Target?  And get this, with the Target ones, you don't even have to remember to recharge them!  Isn't that amazing?

As for GPS, my goodness, the complainypants level here is high.  Can you believe it, I actually use paper maps.  Paper maps are the bicycles of mustachianism.  They also don't require an investment of $100+ per month.

As the person who brought up these uses, I can't help but feel that some of your disdain is directed at me.

Let me correct you. I don't believe in needing a smartphone.

As I mentioned, up until earlier this year, I was using the original iPhone (hand-me down, not one I purchased) without a data plan. I used it as an alarm clock because it's there, and it's primarily used when I'm at work, to remind me of various meetings to go to.

As for GPS, sure, I admit the convenience factor. And again, up until I got data recently, I planned my trips by looking up where I was going, and printing out directions as needed. If god forbid I ever got lost without my GPS device, I actually do have the thick, paper book of maps in the back of my car. But now that I have data (because family plans change due to wants of the rest of the family), I can and am willing to accept then convenience when I need it.
 
But one thing I still refuse to do is connect it to email and social media. Because I don't need nor want to always be connected, or have too much of my personal information 'on the cloud' (where it can get hacked) or on a small portable device that can be stolen or lost relatively easily, along with access to those data.

So no, I didn't spend $100/mo to have  a phone that doubles as an alarm clock and GPS. I brought up those examples as additional uses that the smart phone does for me, with or without accompanying data plan. And you can get off your high horse for not wanting a smart phone like some of us do. Why don't you go back to the typewriter while you're at it too.


senecando

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #58 on: September 11, 2014, 09:18:21 AM »
Quote
I'm just confused why the presence of a device in your pocket would change your parenting philosophy at all.

Your presumption there is that we can choose a "philosophy" (although I'm not sure I would define my perspective in such formalized terms) and that technology would not intrude upon it. Here I fall back upon our admitted broken record, I.P. Daley. Study upon study have showed that certain types of technology are addictive. I went down the Candy Crush rabbit hole for a short time and experienced that first hand. I see what playing Terraria (an online game like Minecraft) on a tablet does to my son's thoughts. He has a limited time that he is allowed to play on it, but he spends the rest of the day talking and thinking about it.

Unlike others on this thread, I don't take offense at the idea that I somehow lack self-control and that's why I reject the technology, even as the price has gone down. The reality is that I do, and if you watch people in public these days, it's obvious that many people are like me. When they hear whatever sound their device makes to indicate whatever has happened on their phone, they cannot resist the urge to pick it up. Whether it's a Facebook notification or something on their Twitter feed, the urge to know is very strong indeed. In the past two hours, I have sat down from my housework multiple times to check on my computer if people have responded to my posts on this thread and the other. The urge to stay connected is extremely powerful.

If I were an automaton without weakness, yes, I could own a smartphone and never pull it out when I am at the park with my kids. I guess in that sense you are right. But right doesn't make realistic.
 
All of this makes me think of the hedonic treadmill and MMM's extreme catheter example. Well, I could have a catheter in and still get up to pee, right? But would I? And it begs the question, if I want to get up to pee anyway, why have the catheter in the first place? I know I'm straying from your original question about parenting, but in my mind it does relate.

I am glad that many on here have pointed out reasonable alternatives like not having a data plan. This is definitely food for thought for me and goes against the ways in which people I know use their phones.

Fair enough. I understand that we can get habitually connected to these things. I guess I differ in that I don't think this is functionally much different with the smart phone, especially for those of us who are almost always near a computer anyways.

I guess--since we've talked so much about addiction and alcoholism--it makes sense to compare the IPD response to teetotalism. The heart is in the right place, but I think it makes too strong a claim and doesn't really understand the benefits. If your only interaction with alcohol was walking in to a bar at ten AM, you would think everyone was an alcoholic and you would see booze as only a negative thing. This is what's happening when everyone you see with a phone has their phone out. You're only seeing the people who brought out their phone.  Selection bias. Valuable and addictive are not mutually exclusive.

I think there are a lot of ways to make the phone into more of a tool, i.e., to mitigate the negative parts. For example, turn off notifications for everything but calls and texts. Throughout much of the day, I have my phone set to not vibrate unless someone calls me twice. It never makes any noise, except for my morning alarm. I also go without the phone and without computers on Sundays.

And yes, maybe it's completely insane for me to appreciate being able to look up what work was done on my car three years ago while standing at the mechanic's, but I find it valuable. It's also completely luxurious to always be able to always ID a bird that I see or take a GPS-tagged image. (And, as I've said before, I've only had one of these phones off and on.)

And, a final point. I'm not just being obnoxious when I mention that this has happened before. That should encourage us to have opinions and arguments about patterns of use rather than classes of technology. We're all using technologies that people we respect (me, at least) found absolutely terrible.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 09:42:22 AM by senecando »

fa

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #59 on: September 11, 2014, 09:26:42 AM »
I am a low data user, but when I use the data (GPS, Google maps, etc) it is incredibly awesome and convenient.  Having said that, I totally hate giving away so much private information to a bunch of companies.  They know so much about me.  It is really scary.  Also, these phones essentially track your every move.  Big brother is truly here.  Between the location tracking of your phone and the police scanners automatically recording car plates with scanners, there is virtually NO privacy left.  Riding a bike and using a dumbphone that is mostly turned off would give you so much privacy back.

justajane

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #60 on: September 11, 2014, 10:08:11 AM »
Quote
This is what's happening when everyone you see with a phone has their phone out. You're only seeing the people who brought out their phone.  Selection bias.

Excellent point, thank you! Next time I am in public and dismayed by it all, I'll try to remember that there are likely plenty of people around me who have smartphones tucked away in their bags. And then when I get one (which I'm sure will happen in the next five years), I can strive to be the latter type rather than former.

Also, great idea to have it set to vibrate only if they call you twice.

oldtoyota

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #61 on: September 11, 2014, 10:25:05 AM »
We are getting ready to break up with our overpriced ATT cell service. Ptel looks like our top choice for a pay-as-you-go provider. The savings should be substantial as we rarely use our phones for anything other than sending text messages. Ok, right now we use our monthly data plans, but we're 99% sure we spend enough time around wifi to not miss that feature. Especially with a baby due any day now, we don't want to be the parents too busy on iPhones to watch their child grow up.

All of that said, we both currently own iPhones and we are out of our contract. Debating going with a true dumbphone instead of just getting new SIM cards for our current iPhones. For those of you who gave up data plans, how tough was it? Do you regret carrying a phone that cannot access the web?

Thanks!

I've been web-free via phone for…about a year? I think. Anyway, I've only missed it one or two times in all that time. I can get onto wifi in many places to check email.

One time I missed it was last night. I was driving somewhere and having GPS would have been nice to make sure I was doing the right thing…but, you know, my brain works pretty well and I figured out where to go without a map or GPS.


oldtoyota

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #62 on: September 11, 2014, 10:32:15 AM »
I am a low data user, but when I use the data (GPS, Google maps, etc) it is incredibly awesome and convenient.  Having said that, I totally hate giving away so much private information to a bunch of companies.  They know so much about me.  It is really scary.  Also, these phones essentially track your every move.  Big brother is truly here.  Between the location tracking of your phone and the police scanners automatically recording car plates with scanners, there is virtually NO privacy left.  Riding a bike and using a dumbphone that is mostly turned off would give you so much privacy back.

Glad someone thinks like I do on this topic. I was at a conference and someone was talking about how we're giving away so much info--as if this was news!--when we use loyalty cards, etc. I don't use loyalty cards. Certain pharmacies (or maybe it's their employees?) will use their card so you get the discount. I've also had other customers offer to swipe theirs. Heh heh. I love that. I am confusing the data!

I do use a credit card so the CC company knows everything I buy that I do not buy in cash.

I live in the DC area, and it's true--though DC or whoever is responsible tries to hide it--that every car plate is scanned upon entering (and maybe exiting??) the city.

At the DC metro, I was told I could not ride to work since I would not let them search my purse. I was not even allowed to take a bus home. The police followed me to make sure I would not get on a bus. However, I could have walked two blocks and gotten on one. I got a ride from a friend and then I teleworked instead.

Thank goodness the police saved the world from me! I am SOOOOO dangerous.






seattlecyclone

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #63 on: September 11, 2014, 10:37:32 AM »
On the topic of data use and GPS, check out an app called OsmAnd if you use Android. It uses open source map data that you can download to your phone so that you can use the phone as a navigational aid even without a data connection. The interface is much less well-refined than Google Maps, but it's pretty handy in a pinch. If mapping is the only thing keeping you from giving up your data plan, I just took away your excuse!

oldtoyota

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #64 on: September 11, 2014, 11:13:06 AM »
On the topic of data use and GPS, check out an app called OsmAnd if you use Android. It uses open source map data that you can download to your phone so that you can use the phone as a navigational aid even without a data connection. The interface is much less well-refined than Google Maps, but it's pretty handy in a pinch. If mapping is the only thing keeping you from giving up your data plan, I just took away your excuse!

Awesome! I don't have a data plan, and this looks handy!

Daley

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #65 on: September 11, 2014, 12:41:49 PM »
Looks like we're officially into the "responding to tone" and "ad hominem" area of Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement, and it only took 57 responses.

As for alarm clocks, are you kidding me?  You need to pay $100+ a month so your phone can be an alarm clock?  You know they sell those for $8.99 at Target?  And get this, with the Target ones, you don't even have to remember to recharge them!  Isn't that amazing?

As for GPS, my goodness, the complainypants level here is high.  Can you believe it, I actually use paper maps.  Paper maps are the bicycles of mustachianism.  They also don't require an investment of $100+ per month.

As the person who brought up these uses, I can't help but feel that some of your disdain is directed at me.

....

And you can get off your high horse for not wanting a smart phone like some of us do. Why don't you go back to the typewriter while you're at it too.

Sure am glad your reasons for owning that slab of technology aren't bringing the worst out of you, Sylly.

Nobody is immune, folks. Nobody. (Not even me!) The first step is admitting you're human, and this is what this sort of technology can do to human behavior. Awareness of the problem is the first step. I'm sorry for singling you out specifically, Sylly, but when one's handed a great object lesson to a talking point...



I guess--since we've talked so much about addiction and alcoholism--it makes sense to compare the IPD response to teetotalism. The heart is in the right place, but I think it makes too strong a claim and doesn't really understand the benefits. If your only interaction with alcohol was walking in to a bar at ten AM, you would think everyone was an alcoholic and you would see booze as only a negative thing. This is what's happening when everyone you see with a phone has their phone out. You're only seeing the people who brought out their phone.  Selection bias.

I finally understand where the failure to communicate between us lies. I'm hardly a technological teetotaler... I'm a systems administrator, for crying out loud! My entire guide is built around helping people use technology to lower their communications costs! Somewhere along the lines, you've decided that I'm anti-smartphones 100% of the time, when in reality I've always been pro-right tool for the job, even if it is a smartphone. However, I preach from the bottom-up mentality of tool shopping and recognizing the difference between most people's needs and wants. Focus on what you need, and it will do those jobs better than a convergence device. I say this from a place of knowledge and experience, and also from an historical perspective as well as one informed by scientific understanding. I have a very intimate perspective from the inside of the machine, and I see both the blessings and the curses that come with it.

I say this out of love, but the whole "if you don't accept all technology in its most current iteration, then you don't accept any technology at all" argument is tired, flawed, and even a little insulting. We have common ground here in the belief that technology is just a tool... the difference is, I believe in selective and informed choices in usage and don't dismiss older technologies as being worthless just because it's older, and I understand enough about human nature to know that most people don't have enough self-control to moderate if left to their own devices, so I try and make people stop and think about what they actually need instead of just succumbing to their base wants. Is this not the very heart of MMM's greater philosophy?

Cite selection bias all you want, but I've seen the market saturation numbers in sales and in the real world. This is a noticeable issue because a significant portion of the population is over-indulging in these activities daily both in public and in their homes, and the frequency of these occurrences are increasing over time, not decreasing. Technology addict logic is even visible within this very community and thread. We're not talking about people hanging out in bars all the time coming to the conclusion that most of the population has a drinking problem, the closest analogy is seeing a significant percentage of the general population publicly intoxicated around the clock and expressing concern. There's cause to treat it as a larger, growing societal addiction first, even if some people are capable of moderation.

Over the past five years, people like ourselves are becoming a minority, and in the under-30 crowd, it's approaching an anomaly as these things get cheaper. I say this because I do make a point to try and look for people in public who aren't using the things all the time, and they're rapidly vanishing. Not even houses of worship are immune anymore. In my own synagogue, I'm frequently in the back working with the AV team, and throughout worship service you'll see nearly half the crowd at one point or another take out their smartphone and look at the world around them through the screen for extended periods of time, and we're not a small congregation. During the teachings, this same half of the congregation has their faces buried in the same smartphones. Are they taking notes or reading scripture? Rarely. They're texting, doodling, playing games, watching videos... phone calls had gotten so bad that we started having to put up signs on the overhead telling people to turn the things off. GSM buzz is an issue with recordings some Sabbaths now, even despite the shielding.

The biggest problem with smartphones being so addictive are their physical size and form factor. They are designed with great psychological insight and marketing informed engineering - they are literally designed to always be physically noticed and to be constantly touched. Worse, the physically larger they get, the greater the mobile data dependence to drive any of their features, making them more expensive to operate. The mobile industry knows these things and exploits that knowledge to increase profits... you should read some of the industry papers on usage and marketing sometime to get a sense of exactly how dehumanizing their attitudes towards their customers truly is.

Outside of work-related tasks, smartphones don't actually add much real-world value to people's lives, outside of the psychological illusion of being important enough to matter. Worse, most of their conveniences erode and replace basic survival skills that most people should know how to do and take very little training to learn, yet abandoning those skills because a little device can conveniently do it for you makes you dependent upon others to do simple and basic things for you. These things erode people's memories and critical thinking skills. Now we get into the human nature argument. At the core of human nature, we all desire to know our place in the world and think that we matter. These devices fill that desire in such a way as to distract us collectively from productivity... and ironically enough, actually creates a greater physical separation between people than it does to actually draw us closer together. Madison Avenue has learned how to manipulate that desire for a greater place in creation to make a profit. This is the underlying thrust of our consumerist culture and how it arose to be such a problem in the first place. If you think for a second that this culture hasn't deeply permeated everyone's technology use, you clearly haven't seen Apple's stock performance for the past few years.

We need to stop and look at this from a larger and longer perspective. For millennia, people lead happy and fulfilled lives without these mobile communication devices. These things haven't even been mainstream for ten years, and look at what it's doing to our collective society as a whole right now. Can you say with a straight face that most people's behavior with these devices are socially strengthening and an intellectually decent change for the better? Ethics in the application of technology use is important, and the development cycle has accelerated to a point where the ethics arguments and laws can't keep up with the advancements themselves.

Today's technology is wholly unique in the span of recorded human history, even if nothing is technically new under the sun. Just because man can do certain things with technology, we should take the time to stop and ask if we should be doing it in the first place. We live in an amazing age, but knowledge is power, and power corrupts. We aren't talking about mechanical looms displacing weavers here. We're talking about centralizing all of humanity's information access within a database that has a deliberately high noise to signal ratio, fostering dependence upon technology and corporations to remember for us and do most of our work, and creating the ability to manipulate human perception through the application of selective data bias utilizing portable access terminals. Does this paradigm shift not warrant a bit deeper examination than all the technological advancements of the past 150 years combined?

In the mean time, let us take a pragmatic approach on an individual basis and treat technology as the tool it is. Let us question its true value and apply it only as needed, just like everything else in life. I've said my piece. If anyone feels compelled to respond, kindly make a point to actually read and take it in collectively instead of surgically extracting passages to argue with me over... I know that's difficult for many people to do on the internet, given how low reading comprehension has sunk with digital text these days, especially with anything that takes a significant amount of time and attention to read... but please try.

On a lighter note...

Suddenly I really want to go over and park myself on IPD's lawn and play Angry Birds (or Minecraft PE, more likely) on my smartphone.  :)

Edit: "Hey mister...  what's your wifi password? I wanna watch some youtube videos!"

Come on over! My yard is fenced, I xeriscape with russian thistle and poison oak, I've been known to practice bartitsu and carry a cane, and my house is in a jurisdiction that believes castle doctrine starts at the property line. As for the WiFi, I have open access. Just connect to the unencrypted hotspot named "MITM-Honeypot", and watch all the Youtube videos you can stomach! Be sure to also log into your Twitter and Facebook accounts while you're here and tell everyone else how much fun you're having.

See you soon!

Sylly

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #66 on: September 11, 2014, 01:42:37 PM »
Looks like we're officially into the "responding to tone" and "ad hominem" area of Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement, and it only took 57 responses.

As for alarm clocks, are you kidding me?  You need to pay $100+ a month so your phone can be an alarm clock?  You know they sell those for $8.99 at Target?  And get this, with the Target ones, you don't even have to remember to recharge them!  Isn't that amazing?

As for GPS, my goodness, the complainypants level here is high.  Can you believe it, I actually use paper maps.  Paper maps are the bicycles of mustachianism.  They also don't require an investment of $100+ per month.

As the person who brought up these uses, I can't help but feel that some of your disdain is directed at me.

....

And you can get off your high horse for not wanting a smart phone like some of us do. Why don't you go back to the typewriter while you're at it too.

Sure am glad your reasons for owning that slab of technology aren't bringing the worst out of you, Sylly.

Nobody is immune, folks. Nobody. (Not even me!) The first step is admitting you're human, and this is what this sort of technology can do to human behavior. Awareness of the problem is the first step. I'm sorry for singling you out specifically, Sylly, but when one's handed a great object lesson to a talking point...


Yeah, I'll admit that was snarky of me. The difference is tone. Your tone is civil (It also helps I respect you, based on your previous posts). The tone of the piece I quoted was disdainful.  So I replied in kind -- not to justify my ownership of the phone, but because well, sometimes I lose my patience when people behave that way toward me.

Most of my frustration stems from the judgy-ness some people have displayed, especially when that judgement is based on sloppy reading of other people's posts. I apologize for my typewriter comment. It wasn't meant to say that you must accept any and all technological advancements. I actually agree 100% with what you said above, and I'll highlight one paragraph to try to explain why I found some earlier responses offensive.

Quote from: I.P. Daley link=topic=23523.msg396459#msg396459 date=1410460909
I say this out of love, but the whole "if you don't accept all technology in its most current iteration, then you don't accept any technology at all" argument is tired, flawed, and even a little insulting. We have common ground here in the belief that technology is just a tool... the difference is, I believe in selective and informed choices in usage and don't dismiss older technologies as being worthless just because it's older, and I understand enough about human nature to know that most people don't have enough self-control to moderate if left to their own devices, so I try and make people stop and think about what they actually need instead of just succumbing to their base wants. Is this not the very heart of MMM's greater philosophy?

Conversely, the opposite is true. Just because an individual has chosen the more advanced technology, that doesn't mean s/he hasn't made an informed choice, which is what a handful of posts have implied -- that we with smartphones are simply sheep following the flow. There's not enough distinction between the device as a tool and the problems made prevalent by the device's capabilities. There's assumptions that anyone with a smartphone must fall into the latter camp too, which is just as bad as assuming anyone with a dumb phone is a luddite.



Johnez

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #67 on: September 11, 2014, 03:41:10 PM »
I got the smartphone cos I like the color, and that cool M on the back, and I like the way the ring tone sounds, and CANDY CRUSH SAGA IS SO ADDICTIVE. So sue me lol!

Heck yeah I missed my smartphone. I went 18 months without on Ting. If Ting didn't jack with their pricing structure and Republic didn't come around though, I'd happily suffer another 18 months.

Things I enjoy about my smartphone:

*Having a decent camera to snap pics on the fly.
*Robust calendar and notes
*Converter app!
*flashlight
* and many other happy fun cool things that I probably don't need.
 
BTW, I don't pay for data and find $10 a month pretty damn doable.

Despite talk of "consumer whores" and whatnot, having a smartphone is a PERSONAL choice. Take a look at a real mustachian, the blogger in chief-triple M himself decides he NEEDS that smartphone, he pays for it and ENJOYS his mustachian life.
 
[Edit]
IPD, your last post compelled me to add this-you're a smart fellow and hold shed tons of knowledge between your fingers and brain, but it's those surgically extracted passages you're not wanting people to reply to that caused me to nearly dismiss your whole point and I consider myself a guy with relatively above average intelligence. In the big picture, it's how you say it.


« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 03:57:56 PM by Johnez »

seattlecyclone

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #68 on: September 11, 2014, 03:50:16 PM »
Despite talk of "consumer whores" and whatnot, having a smartphone is a PERSONAL choice. Take a look at a real mustachian, the blogger in chief-triple M himself decides he NEEDS that smartphone, he pays for it and ENJOYS his mustachian life.

I bet if you asked him, MMM would say that his smartphone is not a "need" at all, but rather an extremely extravagant indulgence that he can partake in because he is already retired and his stash provides enough income for him to spend a bit extra on such luxuries.

magnuminator

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #69 on: September 11, 2014, 04:08:56 PM »
I have a smartphone that I use with Consumer Cellular.  I was tempted by Republic Wireless, but I didn't like the idea of having two radios (cellular and wifi) operating when I make calls (I generally leave wifi off unless I need it for something).  Does anyone else worry about this or am I the only one here with tin foil in my hat (so to speak)?  I don't claim to know that cell phones/wifi at close range are bad, but I don't believe that I really know that they're safe, either.

Anyways, back to the original question: I've gone from smartphone to dumbphone and back to smartphone (most all bought and sold used) and I do get the itch to go data-less from time to time.  I may pick up a simple used dumbphone to allow myself "data vacations" from time to time (easy with a GSM phone).

Daley

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #70 on: September 11, 2014, 05:01:35 PM »
Well, since some of the pro-smartphone camp is bound and determined to derail the thread fully.... let's lean into it, shall we?

Despite talk of "consumer whores" and whatnot, having a smartphone is a PERSONAL choice. Take a look at a real mustachian, the blogger in chief-triple M himself decides he NEEDS that smartphone, he pays for it and ENJOYS his mustachian life.

It's less so if you're in hair-on-fire territory.

As for your defense of, "If MMM thinks Republic is a good deal, it must be true!"

I've held off for a good long time out of a sense of great respect for our generous host on voicing these specific points publicly, but I think it's time to finally address this idea head-on with what I do know.

1) He's already FI, most people on these forums optimizing their budgets are not. It's pretty facepunch worthy by his own standards to blow $150+ on another phone when it's so damned easy to get Republic level pricing through other providers with your current handset (or even a much cheaper one) by just using a little pre-packaged self discipline and research. The proprietary model of Republic's own service could even be said to be a bit hypocritical to endorse when measured against MMM's overall message. There are other great MVNOs used by plenty of mustachians that aren't Ting and Republic, which happen to be two of the more expensive in the landscape... and no wonder, given the referral programs for both.

2) Republic gave him his phones "for review purposes", I'm pretty sure he didn't buy them. Given their referral system and his traffic, I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't paid a blessed cent to Republic the entire time he's been with them. I'm sure I'd probably think it was a great service too even despite the caveats when it's effectively free. One has to honestly wonder, though, if he'd feel exactly the same about the service if he actually had to pay full price for it, hadn't gotten special exception treatment from the company with questions and support, and there was no referral system.

3) MMM doesn't interact with or keep up on these forums like I do. He just shoots out ideas into his blog and scrapes in the advertising revenue derived off of his reasonably balanced philosophy. I've been helping in the trenches here in the forum for over two years, and I'm regarded as the communications guy (though I'd rather be remembered as an ethics guy). MMM probably doesn't hear about other people's problems from their attempted switches to Republic at his recommendation, trying to clean up the financial and technical mess that the switch caused. I do. It's all sunshine and lollypops and TaC violating referral links from most of the seagull-posting Republic users in the forums here, but I have emails and PMs over the past year and change that would make you as cranky about RW recommendations as I am... possibly more so given how riled up I've seen a lot of regulars get about pet peeves.

4) As for his supposed "need", see Seattle Cyclone's post:
I bet if you asked him, MMM would say that his smartphone is not a "need" at all, but rather an extremely extravagant indulgence that he can partake in because he is already retired and his stash provides enough income for him to spend a bit extra on such luxuries.

No matter the tone of Argyle, he had a valid point: smartphones are the clown cars of mobile communications devices. If you use one anyway? Fine! If you can actually justify it's presence? Great! Just don't pretend that it's anything more than a first world luxury, and stop telling people in oppressive debt trying to shovel out that their flagship smartphone habit is okay, or that somehow replacing that iPhone with a Moto G (or worse, a Moto X) on some magical VoIP company is a smart financial move. It isn't.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 05:05:30 PM by I.P. Daley »

JamesAt15

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #71 on: September 11, 2014, 06:08:11 PM »
Come on over! My yard is fenced, I xeriscape with russian thistle and poison oak, I've been known to practice bartitsu and carry a cane, and my house is in a jurisdiction that believes castle doctrine starts at the property line. As for the WiFi, I have open access. Just connect to the unencrypted hotspot named "MITM-Honeypot", and watch all the Youtube videos you can stomach! Be sure to also log into your Twitter and Facebook accounts while you're here and tell everyone else how much fun you're having.

See you soon!

(Long pause....)  "Siri, what is 'bartitsu'?"

fa

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #72 on: September 11, 2014, 06:56:20 PM »
What about an old fashioned pager?  Since a pager does not emit a signal, you maintain privacy, pay very little and can call back when needed.  You could agree on codes of what type of message it is and how urgent.  Certainly, most people don't really need a cell phone even if they try to justify them.  It really is just a luxury for most in their personal lives.

surfhb

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #73 on: September 11, 2014, 07:25:40 PM »
What about an old fashioned pager?  Since a pager does not emit a signal, you maintain privacy, pay very little and can call back when needed.  You could agree on codes of what type of message it is and how urgent.  Certainly, most people don't really need a cell phone even if they try to justify them.  It really is just a luxury for most in their personal lives.

+1

justajane

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #74 on: September 12, 2014, 07:20:45 AM »
What about an old fashioned pager?  Since a pager does not emit a signal, you maintain privacy, pay very little and can call back when needed.  You could agree on codes of what type of message it is and how urgent.  Certainly, most people don't really need a cell phone even if they try to justify them.  It really is just a luxury for most in their personal lives.

I know this sounds like a logical argument to you, although I hesitate to call it an argument, since it more serves as a not-so-subtle way to mock people who you think are out of step with the present. But let's take your quasi-argument on a ride and see where it takes us.

---Brooms are for suckers! Enter the 21st century and get a Roomba, dummy.

---Manual transmission users. Um, ever heard of automatic? You might as well drive around in a horse and buggy.

---A plain toothbrush over a battery operated one? Tape a sign to your forehead that says MORON and call it a day.

---Why would you ever use a french press when you could use a Keurig? That's just holding on to the past, man.


I could go on and on, but you know where your logic leaves someone? Dead broke and wrapped around the hands of consumerist culture and a bunch of mostly dudes who want to take your money.

Repeat after me: just because a new technology exists does not mean everyone around me has to embrace it. And if they don't it doesn't mean they are stupid.

dandarc

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #75 on: September 12, 2014, 07:22:21 AM »
I bet my wife misses hers - she lost it 2 days ago, so she has been sans-phone for a couple days.  Hopefully it is hiding at the animal shelter she thinks she lost it at.

Daley

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #76 on: September 12, 2014, 07:54:05 AM »
Repeat after me: just because a new technology exists does not mean everyone around me has to embrace it. And if they don't it doesn't mean they are stupid.

Jane, in light of Fa's other post, I think they were actually being serious.

They are quite right about mobile calling needs, as even a majority of people's cellphone usage is conditioned and not actually necessary, and part of that is due to the historical costs of landline service. When cell coverage became "good enough" and the average price per line with subsidized mobile phone prices hitting just a little above the average landline price, people traded the extra money for the portability... this eventually lead to people believing and living as though they needed mobile phone service for most of their calling when in reality they just lost their patience of waiting until they were home to make calls. The subtle yet massively transforming nature of mobile communications on thought processes and social attitudes can be scary to see sometimes.

As for Fa's specific point about pager service, it's a pretty dead technology at this point, and I don't know of a provider that offers the service for less than $10/month. It's quite literally cheaper (and easier) to use a cellphone for these services because it's the dominant technology... which isn't to say that one still couldn't apply similar thinking to text messages by only using those as low-priority paging as an alternative to calling if it isn't urgent enough. If you want to communicate on the move, privacy is dead. C'est la vie.

justajane

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #77 on: September 12, 2014, 09:16:52 AM »
Repeat after me: just because a new technology exists does not mean everyone around me has to embrace it. And if they don't it doesn't mean they are stupid.

Jane, in light of Fa's other post, I think they were actually being serious.

Ah, thanks. Internet communication has inured me to sarcasm and hyperbole to the point that I don't recognize sincerity anymore. My apologies.

I have, however, seen that exact argument made before as a way to make fun of people who reject technology.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 09:18:46 AM by justajane »

iamadummy

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #78 on: September 12, 2014, 09:29:45 AM »
I've never had one. If I'm with friends, I can just borrow theirs if needed. 

senecando

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #79 on: September 13, 2014, 03:12:01 PM »
...

Anyways, back to the original question: I've gone from smartphone to dumbphone and back to smartphone (most all bought and sold used) and I do get the itch to go data-less from time to time.  I may pick up a simple used dumbphone to allow myself "data vacations" from time to time (easy with a GSM phone).

You can turn off cellular data on iOS and Android. Let me know if you want to know how and can't find it online.

fa

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #80 on: September 13, 2014, 03:32:05 PM »
What about an old fashioned pager?  Since a pager does not emit a signal, you maintain privacy, pay very little and can call back when needed.  You could agree on codes of what type of message it is and how urgent.  Certainly, most people don't really need a cell phone even if they try to justify them.  It really is just a luxury for most in their personal lives.

I know this sounds like a logical argument to you, although I hesitate to call it an argument, since it more serves as a not-so-subtle way to mock people who you think are out of step with the present. But let's take your quasi-argument on a ride and see where it takes us.


Sorry I missed this.  I was not being sarcastic and did not intent to mock anyone. The lack of privacy in today's world does bother me.  I know a privacy author who recommends carrying a pager and a turned off very dumb phone to keep your privacy.  According to IPD pager service is virtually dead and not cheaper, so that may not even be an option.  I still strongly dislike the absence of privacy and wish there was a solution without abandoning cell technology.  But convenience and price trumps just about everything else...That is true for me as well, since I have a smartphone.

ministache

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #81 on: September 16, 2014, 08:29:57 AM »
Here's an interesting read related to the topic: http://lifehacker.com/my-year-with-a-distraction-free-iphone-1634907314

Sylly

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #82 on: September 16, 2014, 08:46:33 AM »
Here's an interesting read related to the topic: http://lifehacker.com/my-year-with-a-distraction-free-iphone-1634907314

It's really not hard to do. It's essentially what I do, except I just never set up those 'distractions' from the very beginning. I set up a dummy gmail account just so I can use the Play store to download apps without connecting my phone to my actual email. I figure it has the added benefit of minimizing my personal info contained or connected to the device. I decided what I use my phone for (calls, maps, camera, shopping list & price book) and set up/installed the appropriate apps, and deleted what I can of the rest. My phone is still just a phone, not my whole life in a pocket-sized device.

Scandium

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #83 on: September 16, 2014, 11:42:02 AM »
Here's an interesting read related to the topic: http://lifehacker.com/my-year-with-a-distraction-free-iphone-1634907314

It's really not hard to do. It's essentially what I do, except I just never set up those 'distractions' from the very beginning. I set up a dummy gmail account just so I can use the Play store to download apps without connecting my phone to my actual email. I figure it has the added benefit of minimizing my personal info contained or connected to the device. I decided what I use my phone for (calls, maps, camera, shopping list & price book) and set up/installed the appropriate apps, and deleted what I can of the rest. My phone is still just a phone, not my whole life in a pocket-sized device.
What exactly is "wrong" with communicating with your friends and family? Do you also leave your phone unplugged in case your mother calls? Or hide behind the curtains if a friends comes over to say hi? At work do you run away if somebody strikes up a conversation? When did talking to people become bad just because it's via text or email?

I live thousands of miles from most friends and family, if anything I talk/email with them too little, not too much.

Blackadder

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #84 on: September 16, 2014, 12:08:32 PM »
I'm tired and somewhat insulted that some people still conflate smartphone users with hedonistic and/or socially inept people.

  • YES, I do own and use a smartphone.
  • NO, I am not addicted to using it for nonsensical time-wasters. Quite the opposite: if I use it, it is for something which saves me time and sometimes stress later on. (Remember the joy of spending 30 minutes memorizing/printing out your route before a trip, having to go home when having missed the person you wanted to meet, or the sheer pleasure derived from sprinting from your bus to your connecting train but missing it because you first have to use the ticket machine to buy a ticket? Only smartphone-addicted morons wouldn't miss this, right?)
  • NO, I am not playing with my smartphone during social activities instead of having conversations.
  • NO, I am not playing with my smartphone instead of reading books or doing other meaningful activities.
  • NO, I am not buying the latest and greatest but wear out the one I have. Looking at 5y+, similar my computer (currently 7 years and counting).

Chances are that I still am a socially inept person, but that's probably stronger correlated with me posting in an internet forum instead of being outside or having a good read than with owning a smartphone.

Daley

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #85 on: September 16, 2014, 12:27:58 PM »
I'm tired and somewhat insulted that some people still conflate smartphone users with hedonistic and/or socially inept people.

*ahem*

I never really wanted one to begin with, but having watched what they do to people who own them made me decide I wouldn't accept even if I was offered both the phone and plan for free:

Smart phone users spend an average of 131 mins per day on mobile communication.  Thats out of only 480 minutes of discretionary time (not work or sleep) or about 1/3 of all free time.  And that doesn't even include non-communication apps like games.

The average user checks FaceBook 14 times per day

75% of smart phone users sleep with it on and in the same room

25% have phone on and in reach 24hours a day

80% all but an hours or two

a quarter check while driving

almost a third check during meals with others

almost 2/3 check at least once an hour, even if it doesn't ring or vibrate

20% check their phone every 10 minutes

84% said that they could not go a single day without their cellphones

one in three would rather give up sex than go a week without their phones

A third admitted that being without their mobile for even short periods leaves them feeling anxious

Basically, the smart phone is the opium of the 21st century.  Although I suppose a good drug addiction can cost a lot more than $160 per month, so I guess its a pretty good deal...

Wow, those are some sad numbers.  What's your source?  I might turn this into an exercise for my classroom -- most of my students are among the addicted. 

http://www.mediabistro.com/alltwitter/smartphones_b39001

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/16/smartphone-addiction-time-survey_n_1791790.html

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865596120/58-percent-of-smartphone-users-dont-go-1-hour-without-checking-it-2-are-you-one-of-them.html?pg=all

http://www.pewinternet.org/fact-sheets/mobile-technology-fact-sheet/

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2014/05/20/how-your-smartphone-messes-with-your-brain-and-your-sleep/

https://fb-public.app.box.com/s/3iq5x6uwnqtq7ki4q8wk

...the thing with many of Bakari's usage statistics are that they're industry averages from real world usage reported by mobile carriers. (That's right, the mobile industry actively keeps track of how much you actually fiddle with your smartphones beyond talk, text and data statistics.) Just because you don't claim to use your smartphone that way doesn't mean the majority does. You are an outlier, not the norm. Deny it all you want, but there's clearly a large scale problem here, and it's tied directly to the device in question.

You are the outlier, not the norm. Either you're 100% correct about your usage, in which case you need to learn to let the valid criticisms for the majority of the public roll off your back, or you need to come to terms that you're just as human as the rest of us and that you might have more of a problem than you think.

Blackadder

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #86 on: September 16, 2014, 01:03:52 PM »
Quote
You are the outlier, not the norm. Either you're 100% correct about your usage, in which case you need to learn to let the valid criticisms for the majority of the public roll off your back, or you need to come to terms that you're just as human as the rest of us and that you might have more of a problem than you think.

What's that supposed to mean? Do I have a problem if I get miffed about generalizations? Or that I do have a problem if I own a smartphone and am only 99% sure that I'm using it sensibly? Sorry, I might actually not get that (English is not my first language).

Back on topic -- I second the suggestion to track your usage and select a provider/contract/package which most closely matches your usual (not your "potential") usage. People are not good at estimating. You can use your provider's bills if they are detailed enough, or, on an iPhone, you can go to Settings > Mobile Network, reset the counters and track them for a few weeks. I'm sure other smartphones have similar or better usage tracking capabilities.

Edit: I have no problem about valid criticism, only with sweeping generalizations, even if they are statistically founded. "I hope you don't mind that we didn't invite you. Men are just much more physically aggressive and we didn't want any fights at our party!" Har har thanks a lot.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 01:21:10 PM by Blackadder »

Sylly

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #87 on: September 16, 2014, 01:50:22 PM »
What exactly is "wrong" with communicating with your friends and family? Do you also leave your phone unplugged in case your mother calls? Or hide behind the curtains if a friends comes over to say hi? At work do you run away if somebody strikes up a conversation? When did talking to people become bad just because it's via text or email?

I live thousands of miles from most friends and family, if anything I talk/email with them too little, not too much.

From the article
Quote
In 2012, I realized I had a problem. My iPhone made me twitchy. I could feel it in my pocket, calling me, like the Ring called Bilbo Baggins. It distracted me from my kids. It distracted me from my wife. It distracted me anytime, anywhere. I needed to take control.

If you don't have a problem. Good for you. The article and suggestion clearly doesn't apply to you.

What is it with people and putting words in my mouth?

I have nothing against smart phones, or people who use them. They're great technology. But as has been pointed out by others, it's getting to the point where it can and often is overused.

The article I was replying to is pointing out one way someone has decided to reduce his overuse -- by cutting out the superfluous stuff that is driving his overuse. I reply to reinforce the idea as something that is not difficult to do, especially if you do it from the beginning (for those folks who are just starting to use a smart phone). How is that exactly translating to not picking up calls from my mother?

I never said there's anything wrong communicating with friends and family. I just don't want to be 'plugged in' 24/7. I check my email regularly on my computer at home. I don't see a need to check it when I'm out and about. And if someone needs to reach me RIGHT NOW, they can call me, or text me even. I never said anything about disabling the phone's calling or messaging capability.

Like you, I keep social media account(s) simply to keep in touch or do light banter with far away friends and families. But I do this on my computer at home, because like email, I don't see the point in having it while I'm out and about. I'm certainly not going to document my every move on it for privacy. And for that privacy reason, I also choose to keep as much personal info out of my phone as possible. I'm making the trade-off between privacy (I value) and the convenience of being able to reply to email / social media immediately (I don't value much at all).

What I do find sad is when I see a family eating out, while a number of the members are perpetually staring at their phone/tablet. In that case, it's their loss -- but it serves as something to avoid to me.
What I find infuriating is when I see someone driving while being distracted by their phone (or anything, really), because in this case, his/her action can hurt others.

I have never said or implied, that everyone who uses a smart phone commits these things, or is overusing their phone. I've actually objected to that generalization earlier in this thread.




Scandium

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #88 on: September 16, 2014, 01:51:49 PM »
Surprise; people are rude assholes, phones or not.

Do we really need to fund research to find that 90% (100%?) of people are self-centered dicks? I could have told you that for free! This is not because of smartphones, it's because humans.

LifestyleDeflation

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #89 on: September 16, 2014, 03:57:09 PM »
In response to the OP- I can tell you from having traveled quite extensively in the past year, all over the world, in fact: it is really difficult to find yourself more than 100 yards from an accessible Wi-Fi network. Anywhere. I could walk down the street in the small city of Villavicencio in Colombia and find an open network in less than 10 minutes. Wi-Fi is everywhere. Ditch the data.

And if you're brave, ditch your cellphone plan completely, grab an old android phone for cheap, and make/receive calls completely free with Wi-Fi + Google Voice + Groove IP + Ring.to. I did this a year ago and love it. Good luck and have fun!

Daley

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #90 on: September 16, 2014, 04:23:54 PM »
Quote
You are the outlier, not the norm. Either you're 100% correct about your usage, in which case you need to learn to let the valid criticisms for the majority of the public roll off your back, or you need to come to terms that you're just as human as the rest of us and that you might have more of a problem than you think.

What's that supposed to mean? Do I have a problem if I get miffed about generalizations? Or that I do have a problem if I own a smartphone and am only 99% sure that I'm using it sensibly? Sorry, I might actually not get that (English is not my first language).

It means that you're human... like the rest of us. Smartphones are designed to be used, even if they're not actually needed. Your own specific citations for ownership defense are at best trivial conveniences on a scale of universal human needs and wants. It's okay. We're all human here. All imperfect. It's because of this that smartphones are so easy to abuse in the first place. These things are convenience machines, and they prey on our desire for soft living. Embracing that understanding gives us a better perspective in how technology actually changes our lives, for better or worse.

Edit: I have no problem about valid criticism, only with sweeping generalizations, even if they are statistically founded. "I hope you don't mind that we didn't invite you. Men are just much more physically aggressive and we didn't want any fights at our party!" Har har thanks a lot.

That's an apples to oranges comparison, and more a "minor percentage" driving policy for larger groups example. The problem isn't as pronounced in developing nations yet, but it's coming. Here in the first world, it's a majority of the population issue, and there's clearly some scientifically grounded understanding as to why it's happening and why it should be regarded as an addiction issue. We are talking about fundamental human nature and biology that these devices exploit and develop addiction through. It's like sugar, or the nicotine in cigarettes. There's no shame in admitting weakness to these things... it's part of the human condition. Be humble enough to recognize that we're all flawed, and none of us should be so defensive as to critically define ourselves through the stuff we own and use.

Blackadder

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #91 on: September 17, 2014, 03:40:47 AM »
On topic: When I find myself wanting something and want to find out if this is actually a justifyable purchase, I follow one of the two following strategies. Just listing pros and cons is not enough (we humans are very good at deciding first, and rationalizing after):

1) Use a quantitative decision model (such as the spreadsheet from earlier in this thread). I believe you can do that for almost everything (monetary or not) by converting all units to the universal unit: amount of quality living time. I've done that a number of times, and it worked well so far (I admit that "fiddling with spreadsheets" counts as quality time for me ;) ).

2) As suggested often in these forums, wait the purchase out and see if the "want" feeling subsides. If it doesn't, you can do the following to find out if you are actually just craving the "consumption kick" (this is morally problematic): Abuse the return policy by buying the damn thing and returning it 2 days later (as a rule!). Then wait and see if that urge has subsided. Often, it does, surprisingly. There have been some cases where I ordered something and the order got messed up somehow. Then, I sometimes actually cancelled the order altogether because I realized that I didn't feel like I needed it anymore. That's how I realized this. It's funny how we think we're rational... I think this has something to do with the fact that no matter where we are in our lives, we always think we've been sooo stupid doing this/that two years ago, and we're much smarter now. Yeah, right. :)

Rules like "only buy used" and "buy only to replace broken/used up stuff" are helpful, too. While they don't help to whittle down your consumption, they at least help you to avoid amassing tons of crap you don't need.

Off-topic:
@I.P. Daley, I appreciate your answer. I somewhat got triggered by the idea of being lumped into and judged as part of a group. Maybe I do have to learn to let that roll off my back, maybe not. Thanks in any case for staying calm and friendly... I am just as human and lizard-brain-driven as anyone else, I'm just trying to use the hacks I know to make rational decisions (like above).

I do agree actually: When there are more opportunities to become lazy and let ourselves go, more people will do so. "With great power comes great responsibility." :)

Daley

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #92 on: September 17, 2014, 07:46:57 AM »
Off-topic:
@I.P. Daley, I appreciate your answer.

Glad we found some common ground, Edmund. ;)

pichirino

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #93 on: September 17, 2014, 08:36:41 AM »
Smartphones(with data) of today are the msn messengers and other communication tools of yesterday, really portable
and people love to be connected.

To the question if the smartphone is missed,not for me, I still have one
but without a data plan,paying 3$ per month prepaid.Bought cash.
Used for multimedia,calling to meet and emergencies,not the internet.

If your savings rate is already extremely high why not? If it gives you daily and longterm pleasure of usage I consider it worthy.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 08:41:10 AM by pichirino »

HattyT

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Re: Anyone miss their smartphone?
« Reply #94 on: September 17, 2014, 05:46:04 PM »
A $99 Moto E is coming out in October, according to an email from Republic Wireless. 
I’ve been a happy Republic Wireless customer and smart phone user for 1 year now.
I'm especially liking the SmartPhone when I travel.