Author Topic: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?  (Read 11688 times)

arandomdude

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anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« on: November 25, 2013, 02:40:48 PM »
Hi:

I've been following this blog and forum on/off for a while. At first, I thought the idea of living a super frugal life and trying really hard to carve out my expenses was really appealing, so I spent a bunch of time doing that. After about a year or so, I realized that while I do have a lot of random hobbies and stuff to pursue outside of working, I can't really imagine trying to live a lifestyle where I'm spending, say, $40k a year to live in a major city on the coast of the US.

So, I think I went from better-than-your-average-saver to mustachianism and back to better-than-your-average saver and I don't really think mustachianism is really for me.

Anyone else have similar feelings?

FWIW, I'm late 20s with ~1mm in invested assets (simple 5 fund portfolio) and $40k/year withdrawn from my portfolio per year, before taxes, is just not enough to live the sort of lifestyle I want to live or to leave behind a legacy I would be proud of. A more realistic number for myself to pull the plug now and go on living the sort of life I want to live and leave the legacy that I want to leave would be somewhere around 5-8mm in invested assets.

Zamboni

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2013, 02:52:19 PM »
What are you doing that you are single and can't feel comfortable living on $40K per year?

Just curious, as I support a family of three on less than that, and we lead pretty awesome lives.

Exactly who are you leaving this legacy for?

senecando

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2013, 02:53:23 PM »
The "legacy" seems interesting here. 200k is a big step above 40k.

Spork

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2013, 03:05:10 PM »
That depends on what you consider to be "mustacian".

If you consider it to be a religious tenet that lays down the law as to what thou shalt and shall not do... then, yeah, I don't follow it like that and it isn't for me.

But that's not really how I see it.  I see it as a great big toolbox of ideas.  Some tools I like right off the bat.  I notice I already have a lot of the tools.  Some are not for me.  And some sort of grow on me over time.


abhe8

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2013, 03:14:09 PM »
i'm curious what your 200k lifestyle would include? i think money is a tool, to be used wisely and enjoyed, so i'm not above nice things.

and fwiw, i think most would agree a 20something with 1mm in invested assets is either blessed with gifts or very mustachian, and unquestionably quite unusual in our current culture.

CommonCents

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2013, 03:25:05 PM »
i'm curious what your 200k lifestyle would include? i think money is a tool, to be used wisely and enjoyed, so i'm not above nice things.

and fwiw, i think most would agree a 20something with 1mm in invested assets is either blessed with gifts or very mustachian, and unquestionably quite unusual in our current culture.

+1

randymarsh

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2013, 03:58:36 PM »
I don't know if I'll be in for the long haul. I hope I will be. But I'm still in school so I haven't experienced making a full-time yearly income and living on my own. 40K sounds great at the moment because my parents pay for everything besides my car. I also live in a cheap area.

You don't have to quit working if you don't want to. I'm pretty sure the goal of this blog is to get you financially free from having to work, not wanting to work. It sounds like mustachianism would help you reach your goal 5-8 million though? A big thing here is cutting silly expenses, giving you more cash to invest.


Eric

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2013, 04:13:37 PM »
Why would you prefer to hand down a legacy of money instead of a legacy of time?

cbr shadow

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2013, 04:23:29 PM »
It seems "Mustachian" is interpreted in many ways.  Many people who visit the site immediately think it focuses on deprivation. 
I dont think that's the case.. I think MMM promotes cutting waste, or items from your budget that dont have a good return on happiness.
IMO the best way to look at each expense is to ask "Does this bring me X amount of happiness, or could that money be better spent somewhere else?"

Does my 400 channel cable package bring me $130 worth of happiness every month, or could that $130/month bring more happiness if I used it on vacation with my wife?  Or invested it and got a little closer to FI or a little more security in case of a job loss?
If the $130 cable package does bring you that much happiness, keep it!  If not, how about a $30 package?  How about Hulu (free)?  If you decided to go the expensive route, at least be open-minded and try other forms of entertainment to see if cable TV really brings you that much happiness.

sunshine

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2013, 04:29:59 PM »
That depends on what you consider to be "mustacian".

If you consider it to be a religious tenet that lays down the law as to what thou shalt and shall not do... then, yeah, I don't follow it like that and it isn't for me.

But that's not really how I see it.  I see it as a great big toolbox of ideas.  Some tools I like right off the bat.  I notice I already have a lot of the tools.  Some are not for me.  And some sort of grow on me over time.

I look at it as a toolbox also. Not a set of rules.

enpower

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2013, 04:37:28 PM »
I like the basic idea of it, not getting caught up in consumerism, not buying things to try and impress people, etc.

However, what I cannot stand is people telling me I need to buy 10kg bags of rice because it works out 5 cents cheaper per kg than if I bought it in 1kg amounts.

Or people telling me I need to cycle to work in the pouring rain to save $5 per week on transportation costs.

I like to spend money on my hobbies. People on these forums tell me to not have expensive hobbies and go for a walk around the block instead with my barefeet (because replacing my shoes is way too expensive).

I think the basic way of thinking is a good idea. But people here go way over the top, trying to save a few cents here and there. If you really want to save money so much, spend more time looking to increase your income. If I improve my skills and increase my salary by even $500 per year, that will probably make up for all the penny pinching I'd do throughout the year, buying canned food in bulk because it's cheap this week!

If I followed every bit of advice on here, I'd still be living at my parents in my late 20's, would bike in the rain and snow everywhere, eat only rice, eggs and canned beans and if I wanted to see a friend accross town, I would take 3 hours taking public transport there to save $2.

Bruised_Pepper

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2013, 04:45:44 PM »
I like the basic idea of it, not getting caught up in consumerism, not buying things to try and impress people, etc.

However, what I cannot stand is people telling me I need to buy 10kg bags of rice because it works out 5 cents cheaper per kg than if I bought it in 1kg amounts.

Or people telling me I need to cycle to work in the pouring rain to save $5 per week on transportation costs.

I like to spend money on my hobbies. People on these forums tell me to not have expensive hobbies and go for a walk around the block instead with my barefeet (because replacing my shoes is way too expensive).

I think the basic way of thinking is a good idea. But people here go way over the top, trying to save a few cents here and there. If you really want to save money so much, spend more time looking to increase your income. If I improve my skills and increase my salary by even $500 per year, that will probably make up for all the penny pinching I'd do throughout the year, buying canned food in bulk because it's cheap this week!

If I followed every bit of advice on here, I'd still be living at my parents in my late 20's, would bike in the rain and snow everywhere, eat only rice, eggs and canned beans and if I wanted to see a friend accross town, I would take 3 hours taking public transport there to save $2.

This is all one big exaggeration, but I think you hit on a point that separates Mustachianism from other financial plans.  Mustachianism is about saving--that doesn't mean there's not any room for making better money or starting a side hustle--but the core element of Mustachianism (IMO) is eliminating budgetary inefficiencies.  A penny saved is a penny earned, after all: either way, your net worth increases by one cent. 

synonym

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2013, 04:54:22 PM »
+1 on the set of tools
Or people telling me I need to cycle to work in the pouring rain to save $5 per week on transportation costs.

I like to spend money on my hobbies. People on these forums tell me to not have expensive hobbies and go for a walk around the block instead with my barefeet (because replacing my shoes is way too expensive).
i wish that riding a bike to work only saved me $5 week on transport costs. (Edit: so i could stop riding my bike without feeling guilty)

I'm only 9km from work (5miles?) but return public transport for that trip is 9$/day or around $1800/year. Driving instead a car would cost me $5 fuel + $10 parking per day, or around $3000/year, without taking into account car ownership costs. So plenty of savings to be had there.

That being said i maintain some expensive hobbies (yacht, motorbike, woodworking, occasional bouts of skiing). But at least the ideas found on this site can help me take a good hard look at these and see whether the lifestyle payoff really justifies the financial hit.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 08:06:17 PM by synonym »

chasesfish

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2013, 05:57:16 PM »
This is an interesting post, late 20s with $1mil/yr in assets. 

I think of this as a toolbox too.  There are plenty of things I can't do because of the job I have, but I still like most of the comments.

HappierAtHome

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2013, 06:31:18 PM »
I've seen quite a few people posting on the forum that they aren't interested in saving 90% of their income, biking to work, etc, so I think you'll find there's plenty who agree with you about not wanting to be 'extreme' (which of course means different things to different people). But if you're a "higher than average saver" you'd probably still qualify as Mustachian in my book. You don't have to be sharing a house with ten other people and eating lentils for dinner every night of the week to be badass.

I don't know how to ride a bike. I'm not all that interested in gaming the tax system. I have a fairly luxurious living space for only two people, and no intention of getting housemates. I eat very well and occasionally go out for dinner (gasp!). But none of this means that Mustachianism isn't for me. Just that I'm picking and choosing which ideas will work in my life and which I'm not interested in.

arandomdude

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2013, 06:47:28 PM »
What are you doing that you are single and can't feel comfortable living on $40K per year?

Lots of things. Firstly, I donate a lot of money to charity every year, secondly rent is quite high in my city. I pay about $2k/month for a pretty horrible apartment and I am considering moving to a much nicer place which would cost me about 3.5k/month in rent for a 1 bedroom apartment. On top of that, I travel internationally regularly - maybe 3-5x per year and pay out of pocket for flights and hotels and stuff.

Just curious, as I support a family of three on less than that, and we lead pretty awesome lives.

That's great for you and your family.

Exactly who are you leaving this legacy for?

Charity.

StarryC

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2013, 06:53:40 PM »
You seem to mean a legacy of productivity/ effect on the world? If that's it, then I think that mustachianism as an idea fits right in.  Keep working because you want to, at what you want, and feel free to take risks because money is not holding you back.  You can feel free to give to charity, or if your skills as a manager/ CEO/ CFO/ lawyer/ doctor/ candlestick maker make you useful to a charity you care about you could take that lower paying job and do the work yourself.

One thing I like about the safe withdrawal thing is that in many cases, much if not all of the principal remains.  Your goal isn't to reduce principal and live on the money.  It's to live on the earnings and leave the principal.  So, in many cases you could leave $1 million to whatever charity you like, even after working for them for the last 20 years of your career.

I think the most extreme measures you hear are directed at people in debt or who are currently spending more than they earn. Remember the mustache family owns a car, drives to Canada for vacations, eats avocados, and owns a house. 

arandomdude

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2013, 06:55:29 PM »
It sounds like mustachianism would help you reach your goal 5-8 million though? A big thing here is cutting silly expenses, giving you more cash to invest.

So, that's the thing. I fundamentally disagree with this on a few levels. I think the only way I was able to reach 1mm in invested assets at my age was by making several decisions that were not, on their surface, very mustachian.

For example:

   1.) I took about 70k in student loans to go to a prestigious private school.
   2.) I moved out of parent's house at 18 and lived on my own even with student loan debt.
   3.) I made lots of extremely risky investments when I was 23, 24, and 25.
   4.) Gave each of my brothers $10k in cash as a gift a couple years ago
   5.) Co-signed a student loan ($20k) for a brother a couple years ago.
   6.) Countless other small decisions that would not be considered mustachian (subscription services, expensive haircuts, expensive clothes, etc)
   ....

And, honestly, I think those decisions were all the right decisions in retrospect. The only way I'll be able to reach my goal is, almost certainly, by making decisions and tough choices that many people would not consider mustachian.

I do think mustachianism is great for the vast majority of people and can help you acquire a bunch of wealth, but I think if your goal is to acquire a much larger pool of wealth, mustachianism can only get you so far.

Just my thoughts.

_JT

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2013, 07:38:42 PM »
I think that it's possible to make the argument that mustachianism is primarily about frugality, as a means to acquire not more wealth but instead more time, to do with what you wish. This takes wealth, but it's acquired more through saving than earning*. It's also about frugality as a philosophical concept, meaning finding more meaning in life without resorting to the distraction that is consumerism/materialism.

It sounds like you're not interested in the saving or the frugality, but rather through acquiring wealth by taking more risks and earning more. There's no right or wrong answer, and there're no penalties for cherry picking parts of any philosophy that works for you. If you want to move into a nicer place and can afford to, go for it! Don't want to ride a bike or comparison shop for groceries, then don't! You're doing great already.

*This is a generalization, but in my opinion MMM's focus is more on ways to cut your expenses than to boost your income, though he does spend time on both. FWIW, I agree with him. I think most of us already make plenty enough to live on and have lots left over to save.

imustachemystash

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2013, 08:14:02 PM »
Wow!  You are already a millionaire in your 20's!  That's amazing and rare.  You already are on a great track. Mustachianism is the way to go for me because I someday hope to retire on what you have already saved up. 

stripey

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2013, 08:56:31 PM »
'Mustachianism', as in aiming for 'early retirement' is not for me. I try to be a generous person and respond to the world around me, particularly to charity but also to specific people (e.g. my brother is a missionary working overseas). I don't think that always waiting until one has 'enough' is completely justifiable, partly because most people never feel like they have 'enough'...

I believe that the only way the western world has got to the stage where retirement is possible at such an early age is because we have abused, and continue to abuse, the developing world in so many ways (e.g. slavery, coffee prices that don't allow a decent standard of living for the community, sweatshops, etc.). Don't think that Australians were exempt from the accusation of forced labour; look up 'blackbirding' for more details.

Plus, although my job is difficult and recieves less recognition than it should, I actually think it's worthwhile and I enjoy it.

Nords

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2013, 09:59:02 PM »
Anyone else have similar feelings?
FWIW, I'm late 20s with ~1mm in invested assets (simple 5 fund portfolio) and $40k/year withdrawn from my portfolio per year, before taxes, is just not enough to live the sort of lifestyle I want to live or to leave behind a legacy I would be proud of. A more realistic number for myself to pull the plug now and go on living the sort of life I want to live and leave the legacy that I want to leave would be somewhere around 5-8mm in invested assets.
You have to find your own line between frugality & deprivation, and you have to figure out what type of spending brings value to your life.  Then you'll be happy to work for it!

Frankly, when my father passes on and leaves his legacy to us sons, I'm going to wish that I'd had more time with him.  I don't need more money.

Khan

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2013, 10:00:15 PM »
There are two currencies in this world: time, and money. The latter can be used somewhat to help out with making efficiencies for the former, but you'll never get any more of the former once it's used.

That, to me, is the essence of YMOYL, mustachianism, etc. So no, I don't think that "mustachianism" isn't for me. I do it differently than some of the people on here, I'm 26 and am looking at a life trajectory that has me living pseudo-FI'd in the next couple of years while I go to college[and draw down my GI bill], I don't have a family nor do I have all that much interest in founding one, and I don't even know if I look forward to not working and being retired. To add to that, my employment in the Navy, my current job as a technician, neither of those have I enjoyed, and my personal dream is that there is a job out there that I will look forward to waking up in the morning to do. You know what? It's not housework, I can tell you that.

But I do look forward to having absolute freedom with respect to employment. Today, if my employer fired me, I wouldn't sweat it, I could live off my savings for ~5 years without changing anything.

But a time when that savings could last the rest of my life? That's something worth working for. FI, "Fuck you money", yeah, this I can get behind. And every decision I make in life since reading MMM, YMOYL, and ERE and learning about FI is focused on being frugal, maximizing enjoyable efficiencies in life, minimizing damaging choices and hobbies to that goal.

scrubbyfish

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2013, 11:14:46 PM »
Answering the original question only:

Yes and no.

I totally groove on things like living within my means, being conscious about how I'm living and what decisions I'm making, creating multiple passive streams of income so that I'm not dependent on any one source, spending on what I value and not on stuff I don't, etc. Those are the aspects that really resonate with me, and the ones I really do.

What I don't do right now is work to achieve ER or FIRE. My lifestyle is so similar to FIRE, without the million dollar savings, that I can't get myself to worry about it. Yes, there are some dreams I can't afford right now, but overall I think it's a miracle that I have what I have and I'm grateful, comfortable, and secure. Since joining this forum (only a week or so ago), I've come to realize that I can only do so much as an only-parent raising a child with disabilities, etc. So I do what I can, take really good care of my kid, and live an adjusted financial approach. This means I have good savings, some investments, a workable income, a very simple home and lifestyle, and also some luxuries to help me cope with my funny life. It feels like a good balance for me -and it involves some Mustachian approaches and lets some go because of various circumstances in my life.

happy

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2013, 11:15:05 PM »
Quote
I see it as a great big toolbox of ideas.  Some tools I like right off the bat.  I notice I already have a lot of the tools.  Some are not for me.  And some sort of grow on me over time.

I like this a lot. It describes just how I approach my frugal journey.

Strawberrykiwi75

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2013, 02:37:39 AM »
I'm new to MMM too, and I see it as a tool to use as you see fit. I can't pretend to agree with all of it- in fact I'm sure many mustacians would consider me wasteful as I eat out twice a day and go on at least one trip each year. But I still have a 60% savings rate quite easily. I have no intention of retiring early, I just want to be FI.

I think Mustacianism is taking the basic principles and using them to create the life that you want. Make it work for you



Charlotte

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2013, 03:55:18 AM »
I live 4 miles from work. But I will not buy a bicycle and ride that to work. Period, end of story. Not happening. I also will not give up cable tv. Again, end of story. And we will not sell a car, or a motorcycle. These are important to us. We are not MMM types for these (and other) reasons.

For me, mustachianism is prioritizing. What is important to me? Time, freedom, family. These are important to me. We have increased our savings percentage in order to further the goals that are important to us.

If lifestyle and legacy are important to you, then I think mustachianism for you would be acquire the assets that would allow you to lead the lifestyle of your choosing, and to leave the legacy you desire. Best of luck -- you seem to be off to a great start!

dragoncar

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2013, 04:03:21 AM »
Maybe try http://7million7years.com/

If you don't need any of the "mustachian" tools (either because you already have them or don't want them), then I agree there's not much for you here.

Khan

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2013, 04:17:24 AM »
I live 4 miles from work. But I will not buy a bicycle and ride that to work. Period, end of story. Not happening. I also will not give up cable tv. Again, end of story. And we will not sell a car, or a motorcycle. These are important to us. We are not MMM types for these (and other) reasons.

For me, mustachianism is prioritizing. What is important to me? Time, freedom, family. These are important to me. We have increased our savings percentage in order to further the goals that are important to us.

If lifestyle and legacy are important to you, then I think mustachianism for you would be acquire the assets that would allow you to lead the lifestyle of your choosing, and to leave the legacy you desire. Best of luck -- you seem to be off to a great start!

I know you said period, end of story, but **** the cable companies, and the 5$/month you pay for ESPN alone. If it's ESPN or the premium channels that's your poison, I understand. If not... you should really check out Hulu and a Roku box or whatever device you want.

Gray Matter

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2013, 04:43:11 AM »
I would say I'm not a true mustachianist (?), in that you couldn't really call me frugal.  I may be relatively frugal compared to some of my colleagues, who spend money on getting their hair done, expensive clothes, handbags, shoes, cars, etc.  But then again, I spend money on a house in a safe neighborhood in the city ($$), travel and paying someone to do the things I don't want to do (put new tires on the car, humanely evict the squirrels from my attic and crawl around on my roof plugging the holes where they got in, etc.).

Like so many have said before, you have to find your own line between frugality and deprivation.  For me, the biggest things I've gotten from this site are:  live intentionally (that means both in terms of how you spend your time and spend your money), tread lightly on the planet (in ways you're willing to), and maximize your freedom to make different choices and to weather a storm.

Another thing I'd like to point out is that people do change over their lifetimes.  The young have more time ahead of them, more energy, and less money, and therefore they often value the money more and will trade more of that time and energy to get it.  As I have aged, I am keenly aware of how quickly time is passing, and I am no longer willing to trade what valuable time I have left for money.

bUU

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2013, 05:01:17 AM »
So, I think I went from better-than-your-average-saver to mustachianism and back to better-than-your-average saver and I don't really think mustachianism is really for me.

Anyone else have similar feelings?
My cousin is a nationally-recognized nutritionist and appears around the country speaking on matters of the American diet. I'm sure you know his most common bit of advice - the most commonly-stated principle of a healthy diet - of a healthy lifestyle in general - everything in moderation. That goes for mustachianism as well.

hybrid

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2013, 07:03:54 AM »
Quote
I see it as a great big toolbox of ideas.  Some tools I like right off the bat.  I notice I already have a lot of the tools.  Some are not for me.  And some sort of grow on me over time.

I like this a lot. It describes just how I approach my frugal journey.

+1  Very well said Spork.

My impression is the OP is fairly well optimized for his current lifestyle.  It may not be the lifestyle you or I might choose, but it works well for him, and clearly he has had great success at building a stache.  So if OP would rather retire at 40 with considerably more in the bank I see that.  If OP thinks that journey will take until age 60?  Man, I'm 47 now, have a decent stache, and hope to retire by 60 if all goes well.  OP, you aren't going to get those years back.  Find the balance that's right for you.  Clearly you have no issues building a stache.  Your great problem to have is not whether to embrace mustachianism, but how to further optimize a life that works well for you.

For some folks muctachianism is the first and best choice to meet their needs, that is not the case for OP.  It's rather like asking a 7 figure CEO whether or not frugality is a good choice.  Building a stache isn't the issue, happiness and time are the issues.

Seems to me like OP is asking the wrong question. 

rubybeth

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2013, 07:17:02 AM »
That depends on what you consider to be "mustacian".

If you consider it to be a religious tenet that lays down the law as to what thou shalt and shall not do... then, yeah, I don't follow it like that and it isn't for me.

But that's not really how I see it.  I see it as a great big toolbox of ideas.  Some tools I like right off the bat.  I notice I already have a lot of the tools.  Some are not for me.  And some sort of grow on me over time.


Exactly how I see it, too. The ideas espoused on MMM get me excited, but I don't do everything "the mustachian way," because I have to do things that are good for me. That's one reason all the "is this mustachian?" type threads drive me a little bonkers and I mostly avoid them. I honestly don't give a shit if my car/cell phone/toaster/underwear//fill-in-the-blank isn't "mustachian." But I do like the ideas of minimizing my years spent working and maximizing my income, and the specifics on products that are helpful (like Personal Capital) or ideas that are exciting (constant optimization).

MandyM

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2013, 07:29:15 AM »
... Firstly, I donate a lot of money to charity every year...

I think that is awesome. Out of curiosity, do you also volunteer? One of my "hobbies" is volunteer work and I find that a lot of charities need manhours nearly as much as they need dollars.

As far as Mustachianism goes, Its not an all or nothing thing. I think the biggest part of it is just an understanding of how you can actually take more control of your life and structure it to your liking. You can decide what is more valuable to you. On one hand, I think $40K/year/person is way more than I need and anything more than that creeps into absurdity. BUT, I really don't appreciate people telling me I'm doing myself some sort of disservice by living on $25K.

NeverWasACornflakeGirl

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2013, 07:38:26 AM »
I would say I'm not a true mustachianist (?), in that you couldn't really call me frugal.  I may be relatively frugal compared to some of my colleagues, who spend money on getting their hair done, expensive clothes, handbags, shoes, cars, etc.  But then again, I spend money on a house in a safe neighborhood in the city ($$), travel and paying someone to do the things I don't want to do (put new tires on the car, humanely evict the squirrels from my attic and crawl around on my roof plugging the holes where they got in, etc.).

Like so many have said before, you have to find your own line between frugality and deprivation.  For me, the biggest things I've gotten from this site are:  live intentionally (that means both in terms of how you spend your time and spend your money), tread lightly on the planet (in ways you're willing to), and maximize your freedom to make different choices and to weather a storm.

Another thing I'd like to point out is that people do change over their lifetimes.  The young have more time ahead of them, more energy, and less money, and therefore they often value the money more and will trade more of that time and energy to get it.  As I have aged, I am keenly aware of how quickly time is passing, and I am no longer willing to trade what valuable time I have left for money.

+1000

I am 43, and my priorities are vastly different than they were when I was 23, 33, or even 5 years ago.  My uncle, who was only 71 (when you're in your 20s, "only 71" seems like an oxymoron) died last week.  Another uncle died a few years ago at 59.  My daughter is only 8 years old and it is suddenly occurring to me that I may only have 16 years, if I died at 59, or 28 years, if I died at 71, left with her.  I come from a large, healthy family.  My grandfather lived to be a healthy 93, and my grandmother is a healthy 92.  It is a shock to all of us that their children are dying so young (they both died of cancer).  My uncle who died at 59 was a healthy vegan who exercised and had lots of joy in life, so I am skeptical of claims that a healthy lifestyle alone will save us from dying early.

Anyway, my point is that time and experiences have become much more important to me than career and money.  Happily, my spouse and I have always lived below our means, so we have plenty of FU money, our house is paid for, and if we just let our retirement money grow we'll be set for traditional retirement age.  In the meantime, I refuse to be stressed out by my work, I spend every moment possible with my daughter, spouse, and the people I love, and I am planning trips with my daughter and spouse to see the world over the next ten years.

Like Gray Matter, I am not frugal to the extent of MMM, but I still consider myself a mustachian because I live intentionally.

totoro

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2013, 07:39:35 AM »
Well, you are coming at it from a different place than a lot of folks as you already have enough not to worry in the worst case scenario.  It also appears that you have the time and skill set to build your assets to a much higher level.

I think we all find motivation to do things in slightly to radically different ways and it is tempered by what we view as realistic.  It is what makes you motivated that will keep you going or make you want to stop. 

If you were fundamentally motivated by escaping from the need to work, or the desire to live the most cost efficient for the happiness return lifestyle, then you might stop where you are now. You are not.

I don't have the same level of motivation as you.  The more assets and security we have the less motivated I am to create more.  I prefer the time with my family and I don't need $200 000 in passive income a year to retire because I am fine with a more modest lifestyle.  I also don't care if I leave a large legacy to charity.  I largely measure my time in happiness, not money, now.  The only place more money helps is with my children and their activity and education.

You have a big goal to leave a legacy.  Nothing wrong with that if it brings you happiness.

BoulderTC

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2013, 09:50:38 AM »
I think the most extreme measures you hear are directed at people in debt or who are currently spending more than they earn. Remember the mustache family owns a car, drives to Canada for vacations, eats avocados, and owns a house.

+1

Sounds like you have a good life, do good things with your money, and are intentional about it. Don't forget that MMM is not God, and there is no reason to feel obliged to follow him. For some of us, he is quite inspiring. Sounds like you may enjoy Ramit Sethi's material more. Again, no problem with that.

Mazzinator

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2013, 05:24:30 PM »
Maybe try http://7million7years.com/

If you don't need any of the "mustachian" tools (either because you already have them or don't want them), then I agree there's not much for you here.

Thank you for this link!!!

Charlotte

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2013, 04:07:35 AM »
I know you said period, end of story, but **** the cable companies, and the 5$/month you pay for ESPN alone. If it's ESPN or the premium channels that's your poison, I understand. If not... you should really check out Hulu and a Roku box or whatever device you want.

I completely agree with you. But we are in the Boston area and must have NESN for the Red Sox games. DH asks for very little and spends next to nothing. This is (mostly) his vice.... Come to think of it, so is his motorcycle.... And his cars.... It's a good thing he's cute!

davisgang90

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Re: anyone else decide that mustachianism isn't really for them?
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2013, 08:48:27 AM »
I think the fallacy is the idea that if you don't exactly mirror MMM's lifestyle you can't be in this club.  I have implemented a lot of his ideas into my life, but have blown off even more.  Pick and choose what works in your situation.