Author Topic: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?  (Read 14777 times)

partgypsy

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any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« on: February 02, 2016, 01:38:21 PM »
My 72 yo mother retired, gets $600 ssn.  She lives in a house that is not underwater, but she owes $100K on a heloc. The house is in an expensive neighborhood so even the lot is probably worth around $200K. The house has a lot of deferred maintenance. She needs to sell the house, but seems incapable of it. Instead just keeps taking money out of heloc to pay credit card bills and other expenses, does not fix anything in house and also lots of stuff would need to be cleared out. Although she "knows" she needs to sell house, psychologically seems incapable. It has been 1 1/2 years since she retired, she cashed out her retirement, spent, now racking up bills and yet makes 0 progress regarding anything to do with her house. At this point I think she is going to continue to borrow money from house until it becomes unsustainable and then forecloses, forced. out.
I and other family members offer to help her with this process, but she refuses and just asks us for money. She is considered of sound mind.

When the worse comes to be, what are her options? I do not have a spare bedroom for her nor does my brother. (My 2 other siblings live with her and will be in the same situation but just focusing on my Mom here). Is there senior housing that will take her in? Any options? I also feel that she has expectations that her children with jobs should support her, when her situation is entirely preventable.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 01:41:58 PM by partgypsy »

ooeei

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2016, 01:48:46 PM »
A phrase I've often seen on Reddit is "You can't light yourself on fire to keep someone else warm."  While I don't have any idea what her options are, I'd encourage you to keep that phrase in mind.

abhe8

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2016, 01:52:13 PM »
I'm pretty sure senior housing is super expensive... Thousands per month. Sounds like she will be homeless, and that she is in denial. Maybe the siblings are taking advantage of her? So very sorry.... It's tough to see family in the midst of that

MrsPete

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2016, 01:54:57 PM »
So if she sold the house she'd have about 100K in equity?  Could that buy a small, maintenance-free condo in your area?   Would 100K add a nice mother-in-law suite on your house?  If she sold the house, would she use the money for a smaller, more affordable home? 

Can she work part time?  $600 won't go far. 

AZDude

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2016, 01:59:01 PM »
She and you, or your other presumably responsible sibling could find a place with an extra bedroom, and then rent the room out to your mom. Maybe $300/month. That would give her $300/month to spend on whatever. It would give you some extra money to pay for the housing upgrade.

That is about it. Otherwise its the street or a homeless shelter.


ohana

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2016, 02:00:53 PM »
So are you sure she doesn't qualify for more SS? 

MsSindy

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2016, 02:07:10 PM »
..or try an intervention type of thing.  My mom was in denial (MS had compromised her health so had to sell her business) so the kids got together and had to do a tough love thing.  We had a plan for her, and she could either accept it or let things play out (foreclosure, no savings, and then what?).  I won't lie, it was hard!  Many conversations.  Many tears and hugs.  Patience while she weighed her options and fought her pride.  Finally her health got so bad she didn't really have much of a choice.  But, hey, better than living on the streets.

If you can get her to see logic now and sell, then you have some options for her to decide on and this may make it easier for her because then she can choose how she wants to live.  You need to help her see the logic.  I'm afraid on $600 a month, she's not going to have any options.  Well, no good ones.

dandarc

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2016, 02:11:19 PM »
There are welfare programs for this sort of situation.  Granted, navigating the system can be a daunting task, but when the alternative is homelessness, you'd think there would be a ton of motivation there.

http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/HUD?src=/topics/information_for_senior_citizens

slugsworth

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2016, 04:05:23 PM »
Given what you've said, I think her best option would be to sell the house and convert the proceeds into something that provides income. I can say that there are some housing options for people with little income and there is more of it for seniors than other groups of people. However, there can be a waiting list. I would get her on one of those waiting lists while you wait for the house to sell.

Below I've posted a link to one the only national search available, it isn't perfect, but if you select 'elderly' and the county she lives in you may be able to find a housing option that is a good match for her.

http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/HUD?src=/program_offices/housing/mfh/hto/inventorysurvey

mxt0133

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2016, 04:22:52 PM »
At $600 a month in income she will qualify for every federal, state, and local supplemental programs.  She can qualify for SNAP (food), HUD (housing), Medicaid, reduced property taxes, subsidized heating, subsidized cell phone, just to name a few.  From there you have food banks, clothing donations, even subsidized entertainment.

Thing is she should have applied for those assistance programs before racking up 100k on a HELOC, because now she is in danger of loosing the house, which is an asset does not count when applying for the various assistance programs.

partgypsy

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2016, 05:00:29 PM »
Does not qualify for more ssn. Was a state worker, but both times retired, cashed out her retirement versus receiving a pension. She has gone through both retirement settlements, an inheritance, and now about 100K in home equity line.
What I see, she will either continue down the path of borrowing money in any way possible, and end up foreclosing and having no money and no housing.
If she can get her act together within the next year, she can sell the house and clear after debt anywhere from 100-200K. But- I think if she did that she would not qualify for any assistance including housing assistance which is what she really needs. Some complicating factors she has been very rigid where she wants to live (no condos, no townhomes, a free standing house with certain specs, etc).  I floater her the idea that if she had some amount (like 75K) we could renovate our house, make a master bedroom in the attic where we would live and she could have our master bedroom, but she refused. She could possibly get a distressed condo from the proceeds where she wants, but she would have no money other than 600 (too tight).

The other siblings have also complicated this. One is an alcoholic living off her including expensive cable and playstations (co-dependent relationship) so any living situation she wants, she wants to include a free place for him to live (which rules out almost any workable situation). the other sibling works part time, and contributes financially in a small way but the two siblings get along like oil and water.   
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 05:08:22 PM by partgypsy »

BlueHouse

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2016, 05:06:30 PM »
This might be a situation where a reverse mortgage could make sense.  You'd still have to get her to cut back on expenses, but maybe the two other siblings could pay rent, thus giving her some income to spend.

RFAAOATB

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2016, 05:11:00 PM »
I know a state worker in her 80's so going back isn't out of the question even if in a different position.  Getting back to the work force may be her only recourse unless she submits entirely to the financial care of one or all her kids.

partgypsy

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2016, 05:11:48 PM »
This might be a situation where a reverse mortgage could make sense.  You'd still have to get her to cut back on expenses, but maybe the two other siblings could pay rent, thus giving her some income to spend.
No, that wouldn't work. After paying off the heloc she would qualify for very little (50K) and considering that she has so much deferred maintenance, plus will still need to pay 7K a year in property taxes, she would run out of money in a couple years going this route.

Paul der Krake

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2016, 05:26:23 PM »
Sounds like she needs to take in roommates.

Aussiegirl

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2016, 05:26:41 PM »
Unfortunately this sounds like one of those situations that the person needs to hit rock bottom to understand their situation.   I can't see any workable solution that would see her continuing to live with / partially support your 2 siblings.   Unless you would be willing to basically compromise your dreams for others who don't seem to want to help themselves.   On this, I'd keep in mind
"You can't light yourself on fire to keep someone else warm." 

jengod

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2016, 06:07:03 PM »

Unfortunately this sounds like one of those situations that the person needs to hit rock bottom to understand their situation.   I can't see any workable solution that would see her continuing to live with / partially support your 2 siblings.   Unless you would be willing to basically compromise your dreams for others who don't seem to want to help themselves.   On this, I'd keep in mind
"You can't light yourself on fire to keep someone else warm." 

Agreed. You can't fix this. She is a adult making unwise choices but she is an adult.

Honestly, her plan might work...she has created a DIY reverse mortgage where she is drawing on the equity in her home. If she ever taps that out complete and gets foreclosed, she is in massive debt but there is also no realistic chance she can ever pay it back so it's free money. Maybe the sheriff is disinclined to evict an 80yo woman from her home because then she just becomes a social work problem. None of these scenarios are great but I think she's trying to run out the clock. She gets to keep her lifestyle with no consequences except zero inheritance for her children because of the massive debt load on the estate.


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partgypsy

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2016, 06:14:38 PM »
Yes it is a form of reverse mortgage. Even though she on one hand says she "has" to sell the house, on the other hand this past year filed paperwork to defer paying her property taxes, at 5 or 7% interest? Which just adds to her debt. She is under a lot of stress due to lack of money and the house and the roommate situation, but at the same time no one is budging. The oldest has not worked in 15, 20? years. She is now trying to get him on disability.

Thank you for the suggestions and feedback.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 06:16:49 PM by partgypsy »

Cassie

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2016, 01:19:57 PM »
Low income senior housing takes a third of your income. She would qualify for a ton of programs. But she would have to sell house and move into an apartment without the other child unless that child is age 55.  Sounds like when she finally is forced to make a decision you can help her with the above ideas.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2016, 01:33:54 PM »
Yikes, sounds like there are many underlying psychological issues here that will make any kind of "fix" temporary.


Josiecat

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2016, 04:09:07 PM »
The two other siblings living with mom need to have their butts kicked.  Three adults living in a house together?  Why are the two siblings not kicking in rent and assistance to their mom????

Bee21

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2016, 04:25:20 PM »
There is not much you can do at this stage as she doesnít understand the severity of her situation and is unwilling/unable to make realistic/hard decisions to get herself out of this pickle. Plus there are the two useless siblings to make it worse. As she is in her seventies, this is not going to change, I donít think she will do anything logical now, it is just going to be worse. It is easy for people to say that she is an adult etc, you obviously want to help her somehow.

This is what I would do:
Research what sort of state assistance she is entitled to (food stamps, healthcare,  housing etc).  Get a realistic picture and come up with some scenarios. Ie she stays in the house with a reverse mortgage. There is a foreclosure and she is homeless. She has some serious health problems and she needs round the clock care. What could you/would do?

Decide what sort of help you can offer. You mentioned that your mum expects the functioning siblings to help, but how? With how much? Are you willing to hand over a certain amount each month? Say you agree to pay for the electricity bill each month. Or order 300 dollars worth of groceries. Foot the bill for a tank of gas. Can you afford it? Are you willing to pay for these without any hard feelings/expectations? If both you and your other working sibling contribute a mutually agreed amount it might be enough to  keep her in the house and  out of serious trouble.

People on this forum often mention tithing 10% automatically or supporting various charities, but when it is about supporting relatives who are in trouble because of their own bad decisions, the warm and fuzzy charitable feelings disappear. What does the church spend your 10% on? Or the homeless center? Who knows. This is a real person in need and you seem to be willing/able to help her. You can't support 3 adults forever and you shouldn't, but you should be able to help them with something.

Have an emergency meeting with your sibling, agree upon an amount you are able to/willing to help with and see whether your mum accepts that. Draw the line firmly somewhere, say max 200 dollars a month and make it clear to everybody that that is all you can afford, as you have your own family to support. And yes, it is money down the drain enabling somebody to keep making bad decisions, but it is your mom and you will hate yourself for not helping her.

Blonde Lawyer

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2016, 06:28:08 PM »
I do some divorce law and I have seen it take YEARS for someone to get kicked out of their house after foreclosure.  In those cases, they weren't even fighting the foreclosure.  The bank was just happy the property was sort of being kept up, someone was living in it, and it wasn't turning into a flop house.  I in no way advocate this route but your mom's worst case might not be as imminent as you think.  People in that situation basically live for "free" during that time.  If she is old, they are less likely to spend the money to evict her because they can basically just take the house when she dies.

partgypsy

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2016, 02:50:33 PM »
I do some divorce law and I have seen it take YEARS for someone to get kicked out of their house after foreclosure.  In those cases, they weren't even fighting the foreclosure.  The bank was just happy the property was sort of being kept up, someone was living in it, and it wasn't turning into a flop house.  I in no way advocate this route but your mom's worst case might not be as imminent as you think.  People in that situation basically live for "free" during that time.  If she is old, they are less likely to spend the money to evict her because they can basically just take the house when she dies.

So, sounds like this, allow her to continue to use the heloc, delay/not pay property taxes. Unfortunately I believe she is now in the period of time she needs to start repaying principal on the heloc. I just don't know how long the bank will stand for that. And personally seems a shame for her to walk away from equity in her house as it could make a big difference to her quality of life.
My husband does not want any of my family members move in with us (other than a short term stay). He prefers that if push comes to shove that we give money. However that amount would be small (squeeze maybe 800-1K a year) unless I stopped contributing to retirement, which I find depressing (never saving for retirement is what got my parents in this mess in the first place). 

ooeei

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2016, 03:08:19 PM »
My husband does not want any of my family members move in with us (other than a short term stay). He prefers that if push comes to shove that we give money. However that amount would be small (squeeze maybe 800-1K a year) unless I stopped contributing to retirement, which I find depressing (never saving for retirement is what got my parents in this mess in the first place).

This sounds like a very reasonable point of view for your husband.  Helping someone who doesn't want to help themselves is usually a losing battle.  Having them move into your home and supporting them is just going to help pull you down.  Based on your description your mom and brother are both not people I'd want living with me.  Also something to keep in mind with giving them money, is that it's enabling all of their bad purchases.  Even if you give them groceries, that frees up their money to buy alcohol or whatever other stuff they are wasting money on.

If they want help, you're fully entitled to help them on YOUR terms, beggars can't be choosers.  If she refuses to take steps to improve her situation and just asks for money, I wouldn't be helping at all.  If I ever considered helping a friend or family member financially, I'd be all up in their business and require them to jump through all sorts of hoops to show they give a crap before they'd get a dime.  I definitely wouldn't be helping if I wasn't already well on my way to achieving my own financial goals.

Cassie

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2016, 03:13:50 PM »
I would not help financially if It meant I could not contribute to my retirement plan.  If you give them $ you will feel resentful when they waste it and it will further damage those relationships. I know from personal experience with one of my adult sons. I helped for a long time and nothing changed. I might as well have pissed in the wind.  I would help by finding alternates that she can afford and give her the information.

partgypsy

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2016, 03:29:33 PM »
I would not help financially if It meant I could not contribute to my retirement plan.  If you give them $ you will feel resentful when they waste it and it will further damage those relationships. I know from personal experience with one of my adult sons. I helped for a long time and nothing changed. I might as well have pissed in the wind.  I would help by finding alternates that she can afford and give her the information.

That's my problem, any large amount of money I would feel resentful because a) the bad financial situation was preventable, and b) I don't currently approve of what she is doing with her money; supporting my brother, which includes cable (when I was visiting one time she opened up a $150 cable bill because in addition to regular cable he had ordered some pay per view fights) buying a new ps2? fancy game console for him ($300), in addition to conservatively $30 a week cigarettes and $25 a week booze. There have been times I have given her cash for her birthday or xmas because she complains she does not even have a decent bra, only later for her to mention she bought $100 boots for him (using the gift money). I know I shouldn't be judgemental but I am. 
At the same time she is neglecting other bills and routine healthcare for herself like dentalcare.

MrsPete

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2016, 07:15:31 PM »
Sounds like she needs to take in roommates.
She already has!  They're just not the kind of roommates who share expenses! 

Exflyboy

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2016, 07:51:28 PM »
I would not help financially if It meant I could not contribute to my retirement plan.  If you give them $ you will feel resentful when they waste it and it will further damage those relationships. I know from personal experience with one of my adult sons. I helped for a long time and nothing changed. I might as well have pissed in the wind.  I would help by finding alternates that she can afford and give her the information.

That's my problem, any large amount of money I would feel resentful because a) the bad financial situation was preventable, and b) I don't currently approve of what she is doing with her money; supporting my brother, which includes cable (when I was visiting one time she opened up a $150 cable bill because in addition to regular cable he had ordered some pay per view fights) buying a new ps2? fancy game console for him ($300), in addition to conservatively $30 a week cigarettes and $25 a week booze. There have been times I have given her cash for her birthday or xmas because she complains she does not even have a decent bra, only later for her to mention she bought $100 boots for him (using the gift money). I know I shouldn't be judgemental but I am. 
At the same time she is neglecting other bills and routine healthcare for herself like dentalcare.

No I think you SHOULD be judgemental.. You give her money for a specific purpose and she blows on some other waste of space Brother.. Excuse me?.. I'd hit the roof.

This is the problem with pumping money into these hopeless situations.. i.e NOTHING changes. It stays the same, perpetuates the dysfunctional behavour and ultimately the thing you were trying to prevent happens anyway.

At best forking over money just delays the innevitible. You Mother hasn't learned and until the root cause is fixed, handing over cash does absoultey zip.. So DON"T hand over money.

pbkmaine

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2016, 08:32:08 PM »
If you are worried about her medical care, you could pay for the dentist or doctor directly. If she needs clothes, you could take her shopping and pay for them.

electriceagle

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2016, 12:48:03 AM »
The usual stable situation of last resort for an irresponsible parent is social security plus a small, inexpensive, paid-off house (or condo) owned by the children (they'll use it as an income property when she passes on) in a low property tax area.

Its hard to lose a house if you can't get a lien on it and practically impossible to lose social security.

Is it possible to pull something like this off? Might she get more social security by claiming against a (former?) husband's earnings?

alsoknownasDean

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2016, 01:49:23 AM »
Is bankruptcy an option?

faramund

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2016, 02:35:15 AM »
People who aren't fiscally responsible, and rely on other people, will always rely on other people.

Sadly, what she needs, is to see the results of her choices, if you soften them, you're not really helping her.

Especially if she's making bad choices, she needs to live with how those choices end up. Its a very tough position, you really do have my sympathy for having to deal with this.

LadyMaWhiskers

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2016, 02:45:41 AM »
This might be a situation where a reverse mortgage could make sense.  You'd still have to get her to cut back on expenses, but maybe the two other siblings could pay rent, thus giving her some income to spend.
No, that wouldn't work. After paying off the heloc she would qualify for very little (50K) and considering that she has so much deferred maintenance, plus will still need to pay 7K a year in property taxes, she would run out of money in a couple years going this route.

Of all the horror described here, this caught my eye. $7000 per year is roughly $600 per month. Does she recognize this? The sibling situation is sad, and seemingly unchangable. But this one ratio (property tax to income) seems to define the options: sell the house, get a job, or squat and worry/hope for the best. It may be true that no one ever takes her house, but the county may well, if the taxes are never paid.

Parizade

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2016, 10:23:41 AM »
I don't know if this would help in your situation, but I saw these recently and thought they were brilliant!

http://www.medcottage.com/products.php

If she was able to get $50K out of her house she could buy the Medcottage and a small lot (or rent someone's backyard). Clean, safe, ADA compliant, and no room for moochers. $600/mo would be easy living.

Also, if she's having trouble making decisions and taking action she may be in the early stages of dementia. In which case she is really not capable of managing her finances anymore and needs a responsible person to take over for her.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 10:39:07 AM by Parizade »

partgypsy

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2016, 11:36:57 AM »
I don't know if this would help in your situation, but I saw these recently and thought they were brilliant!

http://www.medcottage.com/products.php

If she was able to get $50K out of her house she could buy the Medcottage and a small lot (or rent someone's backyard). Clean, safe, ADA compliant, and no room for moochers. $600/mo would be easy living.

Also, if she's having trouble making decisions and taking action she may be in the early stages of dementia. In which case she is really not capable of managing her finances anymore and needs a responsible person to take over for her.

I think these are super cute but our lot is too small. I was thinking that if she wanted to move to where I was, options including both renting, buying, and buying a lot and build. Lots near me are 100-200K but I'm sure there are some cheaper depending on where she built.

I don't think she has dementia. I think it is more stubbornness/denial/depression.

Thank you for all the feedback. I have had many people say, it is not my parade, and to separate. I just wish I had a good plan b backup if everything goes the way I fear, that isn't too costly or expensive. Kind of bittersweet. I remember her telling me her plans that once she retired and sold her house she wanted to visit me and go to the beach.  But I just need to let it play it out.

goatmom

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2016, 01:43:56 PM »
Is going back to work an option?  Why did she retire when there was no money to retire on?

Josiecat

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2016, 01:46:19 PM »
I think the problem here is the mooching sibling.  He/she needs to kick in a specified amount for rent and food money EVERY month or they need to go.

Blonde Lawyer

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #38 on: February 05, 2016, 04:45:54 PM »
I do some divorce law and I have seen it take YEARS for someone to get kicked out of their house after foreclosure.  In those cases, they weren't even fighting the foreclosure.  The bank was just happy the property was sort of being kept up, someone was living in it, and it wasn't turning into a flop house.  I in no way advocate this route but your mom's worst case might not be as imminent as you think.  People in that situation basically live for "free" during that time.  If she is old, they are less likely to spend the money to evict her because they can basically just take the house when she dies.

So, sounds like this, allow her to continue to use the heloc, delay/not pay property taxes. Unfortunately I believe she is now in the period of time she needs to start repaying principal on the heloc. I just don't know how long the bank will stand for that. And personally seems a shame for her to walk away from equity in her house as it could make a big difference to her quality of life.
My husband does not want any of my family members move in with us (other than a short term stay). He prefers that if push comes to shove that we give money. However that amount would be small (squeeze maybe 800-1K a year) unless I stopped contributing to retirement, which I find depressing (never saving for retirement is what got my parents in this mess in the first place).

Property taxes will need to still get paid.  Usually the bank will keep paying them because they bank doesn't want to lose the house to the town either because that equity covers their bad debt.  But, if she ever ended up in a paid off situation, the town will take a house for unpaid taxes quicker than most banks foreclose.  Just something to keep in mind.

alsoknownasDean

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #39 on: February 05, 2016, 05:33:49 PM »
Presumably if the house is seized by the bank or the city and sold off, the remaining amount after any debts are cleared is returned to your mother...right?

Blonde Lawyer

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2016, 01:14:27 PM »
Presumably if the house is seized by the bank or the city and sold off, the remaining amount after any debts are cleared is returned to your mother...right?

This is correct but they usually get to tack on their costs, attorneys fees, interests and penalties which usually eats up all that equity. 

Exflyboy

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2016, 01:55:07 PM »
Yeah she doesn't want to go there.. Foreclosure I mean.

wenchsenior

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2016, 03:17:23 PM »
I am very sympathetic, because we face a similar situation with both our mothers. Except neither of them have any home equity...just total poverty and psychological issues that promote in one case, passivity, and in the other, active self sabotage.

Before really making a move to help, we had to think about each case, and how much we could do to stabilize the situation. I would recommend not only considering practical things like what you can actually afford, but also what kind of psychological and time-sink toll your plan might entail. In our case, we have essentially taken on more than half the support of one parent (bought a second house to give her a place, gave her our car and bought a new one, pay all her utilities, etc.) It was a long and unpleasant period of YEARS to put this plan in place, and convince her she was close to the end of her options because she had to uproot, move to a town she didn't want to live in, become totally accountable for her spending etc., in exchange for low stress, no bill collectors, and a guaranteed roof over her head. This costs us 7-10k/year out of pocket, which don't get me wrong, really really sucks. I resent it and it has somewhat affected my formerly happy relationships with other family members, but overall it has completely stabilized the situation for my mother, and the multi-relationship fallout is sad but manageable.

On the other hand, my mother in law is similar to your situation in terms aggressively bad decision making, mooching relatives, etc. Also, she's completely uncooperative and unaccountable and would never agree to a plan and stick to it. She's in another state and we have almost no direct contact. So with her, we budget 3-5K/year 'emergency bail out' money; and then we wait for the quarterly phone calls begging for cash to stem the current disaster. Then we cut a check and stop thinking about it until the next call. In that case, it is much less stressful to just send that cash into a black hole and pretend we never had it, than to try to intervene directly in a situation that is unstable and that we can't rely on her to stabilize under any conditions.

So there you go...two different approaches within the same household!

brokemom

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2016, 05:30:44 PM »
Under the circumstances, it might be time to consider reporting the situation to the elder abuse agency in your location.  Adult children sponging off an elderly woman could be viewed as financial exploitation.  If she were rid of those albatrosses, she could move into a subsidized elderly apartment and get benefits to make her money go further.  Kind of a nuclear option, but in effect you are going to end up subsidizing them when she comes to you for cash bailouts.

bobechs

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #44 on: February 06, 2016, 06:04:02 PM »
Presumably if the house is seized by the bank or the city and sold off, the remaining amount after any debts are cleared is returned to your mother...right?

This is correct but they usually get to tack on their costs, attorneys fees, interests and penalties which usually eats up all that equity.



Usually the only bidder at the judicial sale in foreclosure is the foreclosing creditor, although very occasionally a speculator will show up, but they bid only when they know there is profit for them involved.

Theoretically the debtor can get money back from the sale but in practically speaking it very rarely happens.

partgypsy

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #45 on: February 07, 2016, 10:36:48 PM »
Under the circumstances, it might be time to consider reporting the situation to the elder abuse agency in your location.  Adult children sponging off an elderly woman could be viewed as financial exploitation.  If she were rid of those albatrosses, she could move into a subsidized elderly apartment and get benefits to make her money go further.  Kind of a nuclear option, but in effect you are going to end up subsidizing them when she comes to you for cash bailouts.

I understand what you are saying. I just don't think police and social workers want to get involved unless the senior says "help" or visible bruises. Mom and the older sibling have been in a codependent relationship for a really long time. Since she is allowing him to do all this stuff (sabtoging her health, house, and finances) what can they do? She would pass mental competency tests. The other sibling is more complicated. She works pt and contributes to the household and in turn lives in a location where she could not normally afford. But she doesn't contribute enough, not enough to make a difference. The other two pick on her actually. Whatever she does is not good enough. She should move and start over but during the time she has lived there her self esteem and belief in herself has really taken a hit and has become passive. None of it is very functional.     

Josiecat

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2016, 04:44:04 PM »
So there are two 'adult' siblings living with your mom?

Cassie

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2016, 05:05:37 PM »
I was a social worker and adult protection is very different then child protection. Your Mom would have to be incompetent to attend to her own affairs which she is not or the adults would need to be physically abusing her or actually be stealing from her, etc.  Adults get to make their own decisions even if they suck.

Apples

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2016, 11:22:45 AM »
I am very sympathetic, because we face a similar situation with both our mothers. Except neither of them have any home equity...just total poverty and psychological issues that promote in one case, passivity, and in the other, active self sabotage.

Before really making a move to help, we had to think about each case, and how much we could do to stabilize the situation. I would recommend not only considering practical things like what you can actually afford, but also what kind of psychological and time-sink toll your plan might entail. In our case, we have essentially taken on more than half the support of one parent (bought a second house to give her a place, gave her our car and bought a new one, pay all her utilities, etc.) It was a long and unpleasant period of YEARS to put this plan in place, and convince her she was close to the end of her options because she had to uproot, move to a town she didn't want to live in, become totally accountable for her spending etc., in exchange for low stress, no bill collectors, and a guaranteed roof over her head. This costs us 7-10k/year out of pocket, which don't get me wrong, really really sucks. I resent it and it has somewhat affected my formerly happy relationships with other family members, but overall it has completely stabilized the situation for my mother, and the multi-relationship fallout is sad but manageable.

On the other hand, my mother in law is similar to your situation in terms aggressively bad decision making, mooching relatives, etc. Also, she's completely uncooperative and unaccountable and would never agree to a plan and stick to it. She's in another state and we have almost no direct contact. So with her, we budget 3-5K/year 'emergency bail out' money; and then we wait for the quarterly phone calls begging for cash to stem the current disaster. Then we cut a check and stop thinking about it until the next call. In that case, it is much less stressful to just send that cash into a black hole and pretend we never had it, than to try to intervene directly in a situation that is unstable and that we can't rely on her to stabilize under any conditions.

So there you go...two different approaches within the same household!

+1 to all of this.  You need to spend a few weeks determining what level of help you're willing and able to give.  Then you need to spend another few weeks discussing this with your husband and coming up with an action plan both of you are OK with for the future.

Would you be willing to give her grocery store gift cards?  Or what will you do in the event of foreclosure?  Or how much energy are you willing to put into researching elderly care programs in your/her area?  What if she really is going to be homeless? What if she shows up on your doorstep expecting to be taken in?  I don't remember reading how close you are distance-wise (though you could have mentioned it), but would you be willing to host her for Sunday dinner every week so you know she's at least eating one good meal?  Are you willing to put $XX or $XXX or $XXXX per month towards supporting her?  Are you willing to have her move in?  If she gets sick or ends up with a long term illness, does that change your plans?

You aren't obligated to do anything.  And emotions make it tough to make a good decision in the moment-like if someone shows up on your doorstep.  My DH and I hit on a few of these types of issues, and it really helps to know where we each stand on this in case SHTF.

partgypsy

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Re: any way for my Mom to live on $600 a month?
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2016, 03:44:11 PM »
I am very sympathetic, because we face a similar situation with both our mothers. Except neither of them have any home equity...just total poverty and psychological issues that promote in one case, passivity, and in the other, active self sabotage.

Before really making a move to help, we had to think about each case, and how much we could do to stabilize the situation. I would recommend not only considering practical things like what you can actually afford, but also what kind of psychological and time-sink toll your plan might entail. In our case, we have essentially taken on more than half the support of one parent (bought a second house to give her a place, gave her our car and bought a new one, pay all her utilities, etc.) It was a long and unpleasant period of YEARS to put this plan in place, and convince her she was close to the end of her options because she had to uproot, move to a town she didn't want to live in, become totally accountable for her spending etc., in exchange for low stress, no bill collectors, and a guaranteed roof over her head. This costs us 7-10k/year out of pocket, which don't get me wrong, really really sucks. I resent it and it has somewhat affected my formerly happy relationships with other family members, but overall it has completely stabilized the situation for my mother, and the multi-relationship fallout is sad but manageable.

On the other hand, my mother in law is similar to your situation in terms aggressively bad decision making, mooching relatives, etc. Also, she's completely uncooperative and unaccountable and would never agree to a plan and stick to it. She's in another state and we have almost no direct contact. So with her, we budget 3-5K/year 'emergency bail out' money; and then we wait for the quarterly phone calls begging for cash to stem the current disaster. Then we cut a check and stop thinking about it until the next call. In that case, it is much less stressful to just send that cash into a black hole and pretend we never had it, than to try to intervene directly in a situation that is unstable and that we can't rely on her to stabilize under any conditions.

So there you go...two different approaches within the same household!

+1 to all of this.  You need to spend a few weeks determining what level of help you're willing and able to give.  Then you need to spend another few weeks discussing this with your husband and coming up with an action plan both of you are OK with for the future.

Would you be willing to give her grocery store gift cards?  Or what will you do in the event of foreclosure?  Or how much energy are you willing to put into researching elderly care programs in your/her area?  What if she really is going to be homeless? What if she shows up on your doorstep expecting to be taken in?  I don't remember reading how close you are distance-wise (though you could have mentioned it), but would you be willing to host her for Sunday dinner every week so you know she's at least eating one good meal?  Are you willing to put $XX or $XXX or $XXXX per month towards supporting her?  Are you willing to have her move in?  If she gets sick or ends up with a long term illness, does that change your plans?

You aren't obligated to do anything.  And emotions make it tough to make a good decision in the moment-like if someone shows up on your doorstep.  My DH and I hit on a few of these types of issues, and it really helps to know where we each stand on this in case SHTF.

Yeah, well my husband and I have talked about it. Bottom line strong preference to give money versus provide housing. Just that we can't afford to give much of anything currently. If we were the only people between my Mom and the street, would have her move in with us, and work on qualifying and moving her to subsidized housing for her own place (our house is just too small). We could also help financially (not much like $100 a month, and if lived nearby meals etc). Hubby says no to my sister moving in (we used to live together, too many disagreements) but I have lined up 1 or 2 potential places she could live in my town (renting a room from someone I know). Brother I don't care if he ends up on the street. My husband also put up option of moving to someplace with additional room, but neither of us wants to do that so that is a last resort option : (.