Author Topic: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?  (Read 20339 times)

PFHC

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2015, 02:08:35 PM »
My two cents: get snow tires. Much safer. Get them online used or new. Shop around. Buy black steel trailer rims that fit your car online for $25 or less (new or used). Screw the pressure sensor. Swap and rotate your tires yourself with the OEM jack and tire iron. Should be able to get it all for around $300-400.

eil

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #51 on: October 05, 2015, 02:38:45 PM »
Because we get a solid 4 months of cold weather, ice, and snow?  The winters are absolutely terrible here.

If you read further than the first paragraph, I explained my reasoning. The weather here can get cold and icy (and even then, mostly just in January and February) but it's usually not that bad. Not compared to the rest of the state, particularly up north. When it is bad, you just stay home.

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I've never had winter tires before, but I do notice significantly reduced traction during the winter months, especially during snow storms. 

The only reason to drive through a snow storm is if someone will literally die if you don't. Because you stand a decent chance of dying yourself on the way, snow tires or not.

Quote
If I can get dedicated winter tires that will significantly improve my traction and safety during those several months, and not really cost me any extra money over the life of the car (because winter tire usage takes place of summer tires, and I plan to wear both sets out completely eventually), then why wouldn't I get dedicated tires?

Because it will cost you extra. The rims are extra, the cost of installation, the cost of delivery. Snow tires are more expensive than regular tires. And they wear quicker, especially on clear roads which is 90% of the winter season around here.

I'm not trying to bust your chops or offend you in any way. Do whatever you like. But you asked for opinions and this one is mine. I figured on a forum known for not holding back the face punches, it would be welcome, even if not entirely agreed with. Apparently I was mistaken.

eil

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2015, 02:40:50 PM »
Because when Eil is careening into you he will be laughing about all the money he saved on tires and blaming you for his collision on no-season radials. Makes you look like a fool, right! Right?

You missed the part where I said I don't drive in shitty weather. Does anybody read the things that I type into this internet thing beyond the parts they think they don't agree with?

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #53 on: October 05, 2015, 02:51:05 PM »
Man give the guy a break.   I had to question the snow tire thing too in my posts above. I've never thought of needing them ever and I love driving in the winter and snow.

I won't get snow tires (not that they aren't incredible per the comments and the videos I saw) but I have little to no room to store tires and rims, and 1000-1500 is a lot of cash if you don't have problems driving already. 

If I had the room to store them, then I'd consider purchasing.  Until then, I'm going to enjoy doing doughnuts in parking lots.


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frugalnacho

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #54 on: October 05, 2015, 02:53:31 PM »
Because we get a solid 4 months of cold weather, ice, and snow?  The winters are absolutely terrible here.

If you read further than the first paragraph, I explained my reasoning. The weather here can get cold and icy (and even then, mostly just in January and February) but it's usually not that bad. Not compared to the rest of the state, particularly up north. When it is bad, you just stay home.

Quote
I've never had winter tires before, but I do notice significantly reduced traction during the winter months, especially during snow storms. 

The only reason to drive through a snow storm is if someone will literally die if you don't. Because you stand a decent chance of dying yourself on the way, snow tires or not.

Quote
If I can get dedicated winter tires that will significantly improve my traction and safety during those several months, and not really cost me any extra money over the life of the car (because winter tire usage takes place of summer tires, and I plan to wear both sets out completely eventually), then why wouldn't I get dedicated tires?

Because it will cost you extra. The rims are extra, the cost of installation, the cost of delivery. Snow tires are more expensive than regular tires. And they wear quicker, especially on clear roads which is 90% of the winter season around here.

I'm not trying to bust your chops or offend you in any way. Do whatever you like. But you asked for opinions and this one is mine. I figured on a forum known for not holding back the face punches, it would be welcome, even if not entirely agreed with. Apparently I was mistaken.

Eh, it's not just january and february though.  It's not a freak occurrence when we get snow, it's more like a totally predictable 4 months of sub freezing and icy conditions.  Just "staying home" isn't really an option just because it's snowing (ie winter time).  I still have to report to work all winter.  I also still have to go get groceries all winter long.  We also occasionally do stuff with our lives that require us to use a car, and just "staying home" for 4 straight months doesn't seem like an acceptable solution to me.

Snow tires don't appear to be any more expensive than regular tires.  It's expensive because I have to purchase a complete 2nd set.  But I will eventually use them anyway, so that (and even the cost of mounting and balancing) is a wash imo.  The extra rims (and maybe tpms) are an added expense, which is why I wanted to get everyone's opinion to see if it was worth the extra cost to get dedicated winter tires.   

I was also under the impression that winter tires would do fantastic driving up a snowy hill, but will also give superior performance all winter long even when the road surface is actually dry (which btw I would NOT say is 90% of the winter here). Once the weather gets back above 40*F I will switch back to the all season tires.  I rotate my tires myself so I figure it's not actually any added work, I will just rotate my tires when I put them back on after swapping them.

Syonyk

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2015, 03:27:49 PM »
If I had the room to store them, then I'd consider purchasing.  Until then, I'm going to enjoy doing doughnuts in parking lots.

Do you need a coffee table?

Get some plywood cut to shape, toss a sheet over the tires, and you've got a coffee table.

nereo

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #56 on: October 05, 2015, 03:34:52 PM »


I was also under the impression that winter tires would do fantastic driving up a snowy hill, but will also give superior performance all winter long even when the road surface is actually dry (which btw I would NOT say is 90% of the winter here). Once the weather gets back above 40*F I will switch back to the all season tires.  I rotate my tires myself so I figure it's not actually any added work, I will just rotate my tires when I put them back on after swapping them.

exactly - because of the softer rubber compound, snow tires give greater traction whenever the temperature is below ~7C/45F.  At below freezing temperatures all-season tires really suffer because their rubber gets too hard.  It takes longer to stop, and it's harder to make a tight turn, even in dry conditions.  The colder it gets, the worse all-season or summer tires do.  If you're driving and it's -10C/14F out, winter tires make a big difference, even if there's no snow on the road.

you'll spend some on an extra set of rims (~$100) but as stated the cost of tires is a wash because your non-winter tires will last that much longer. 
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/culture/commuting/why-you-still-need-winter-tires-on-dry-pavement/article4180768/

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #57 on: October 05, 2015, 03:41:11 PM »
This sounds like winter tires are some kind of novelty in your corner of the world (the US)?

Where I live (middle of Europe) you definitely need winter tires. If you don't have them and you end up obstructing traffic, e.g. by not being able to drive uphill, or if you even have a collision without winter tires you will be fined, or worse.

Last time I was in the US apparently nobody there had winter tires. Granted, that was in Texas, but it was kind of fun to watch for someone who grew up in the mountains with lots of snow. Two inches resulted in accidents everywhere and chaos on the streets.

Driving in winter conditions without winter tires is suicidal, period.

Syonyk

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #58 on: October 05, 2015, 05:05:47 PM »
This sounds like winter tires are some kind of novelty in your corner of the world (the US)?

Winter tires, son?  Why, my SUV's got Four Wheel Drive, and winter's a season, so these "all season tires" ought to be just fine!  Spend more money on winter tires?  What are you, some kind of socialist? :p

(so says... oh, most of the people driving SUVs that rolled when they went off the road in the snow in Iowa)

TheThirstyStag

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #59 on: October 05, 2015, 05:40:29 PM »
2 things:

1) The term "snow tires" isn't used in the industry much anymore.  "Winter tires" is more accurate for the reasons already cited in this thread (superior performance in colder weather, regardless of precipitation).   You don't just need them for snow and ice.  It's simply the proper type of rubber to use in sub-freezing temperatures.  Traction aside, they're far quieter and more comfortable than frozen-solid all season tires.

2) The TPMS thing is a mess in the US and is a poor use of government mandate of standard automotive features.  Just another expensive system that is very DIY-unfriendly.    I haven't tried this myself since I fortunately have 2 pre-TPMS cars, but I've heard of people taking them out and placing them in a home-made PVC canister that seals up and has a pressure valve.  The idea is that you put pressure in the canister and keep it in your glove box, so a TPMS system that reads by proximity (and not wheel by wheel) will register as them being ok.  This would allow you to use one set of sensors with whatever wheels you want. 

Again, I haven't verified this, but I've heard of it being done. 

What a bloody shambles, these TPMS systems. 




music lover

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #60 on: October 05, 2015, 05:48:27 PM »
I live in a severe winter climate. 90% of people here use winter tires. The other 10% are idiots who cause lengthy traffic jams because it takes them 20 seconds to find enough traction to clear an intersection after the light changes.

Winter tires are far better than no-season tires in a cold climate. Any one who says differently is an uneducated fool.

frugalnacho

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #61 on: October 05, 2015, 11:11:28 PM »
you'll spend some on an extra set of rims (~$100) but as stated the cost of tires is a wash because your non-winter tires will last that much longer.

I can't find a set of rims cheaper than $260 including shipping.  I've been checking craigslist but I haven't seen anything.  Bell tire wants $228 for a set of 4 rims, but I don't know if that price is still good if I only purchase the rims and get my tires and mounting done somewhere else.  Costco seems to be the cheapest for tires, but they don't sell rims.  I am thinking I can acquire a set of rims, and then have costco mount and balance new tires for me, and that may be my cheapest option.  I still have a few places to call though.

Syonyk

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #62 on: October 05, 2015, 11:56:31 PM »
Even stamped steel from Tire Rack?

Le Poisson

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #63 on: October 06, 2015, 05:16:42 AM »
you'll spend some on an extra set of rims (~$100) but as stated the cost of tires is a wash because your non-winter tires will last that much longer.

I can't find a set of rims cheaper than $260 including shipping.  I've been checking craigslist but I haven't seen anything.  Bell tire wants $228 for a set of 4 rims, but I don't know if that price is still good if I only purchase the rims and get my tires and mounting done somewhere else.  Costco seems to be the cheapest for tires, but they don't sell rims.  I am thinking I can acquire a set of rims, and then have costco mount and balance new tires for me, and that may be my cheapest option.  I still have a few places to call though.

I posted this link above, but give it a try... http://www.car-part.com/ - even if you get rusty old steelies, you can hit them with a spraybomb of tremclad to black them up. That link will take you to wrecking yard listings of the specific part you are looking for. Many will ship to you.

PFHC

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #64 on: October 06, 2015, 06:04:44 AM »
you'll spend some on an extra set of rims (~$100) but as stated the cost of tires is a wash because your non-winter tires will last that much longer.

I can't find a set of rims cheaper than $260 including shipping.  I've been checking craigslist but I haven't seen anything.  Bell tire wants $228 for a set of 4 rims, but I don't know if that price is still good if I only purchase the rims and get my tires and mounting done somewhere else.  Costco seems to be the cheapest for tires, but they don't sell rims.  I am thinking I can acquire a set of rims, and then have costco mount and balance new tires for me, and that may be my cheapest option.  I still have a few places to call though.
Google trailer rims. I got mine for $25 a piece on tire warehouse, got the tires there too, had them mount and balance them as well. With delivery I  paid close to $600.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 06:07:04 AM by PFHC »

Jack

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #65 on: October 06, 2015, 12:16:46 PM »
Google trailer rims. I got mine for $25 a piece on tire warehouse, got the tires there too, had them mount and balance them as well. With delivery I  paid close to $600.

Did you check to make sure they have a high enough weight and speed rating to be used on a car?

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #66 on: October 06, 2015, 12:31:30 PM »
you'll spend some on an extra set of rims (~$100) but as stated the cost of tires is a wash because your non-winter tires will last that much longer.

I can't find a set of rims cheaper than $260 including shipping.  I've been checking craigslist but I haven't seen anything.  Bell tire wants $228 for a set of 4 rims, but I don't know if that price is still good if I only purchase the rims and get my tires and mounting done somewhere else.  Costco seems to be the cheapest for tires, but they don't sell rims.  I am thinking I can acquire a set of rims, and then have costco mount and balance new tires for me, and that may be my cheapest option.  I still have a few places to call though.

Check your local parts/scraps yard.  I have an older car so lots of good used rims are available cheap.  just make sure they're not too rusty or bent and you're good.  Just depends on your car and age of it.

Clean Shaven

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #67 on: October 06, 2015, 12:32:53 PM »
I can't find a set of rims cheaper than $260 including shipping.  I've been checking craigslist but I haven't seen anything.

Be patient, keep watching craigslist.  Also look at searchtempest, which lets you search multiple craigslist sites.  $100 to $150 for a set of 4 used take-off wheels seems pretty common -- and because you're going to mount winter tires on them and abuse them in salt/slush, then scraped/scratched wheels are cheap and a good choice for this use.

Also google the wheel specs for your exact car, and see what other vehicles use the same exact size wheel.  I mean the exact specs -- not just diameter, width, and bolt pattern, but also backspacing and offset.  (If you aren't familiar with these terms, google.)

Finally, if there is an optional size wheel for your car, which uses cheaper size tires, consider it.  For example, if your car came with 17" wheels, but 16" wheels also fit (i.e. if your car came with an "upgraded" larger size wheel), you may find that winter tires in a 16" size are less expensive.  If this is an option for you, be sure that your car didn't have some other option that prevents using a smaller wheel (e.g. larger brake rotors).  Again, google and whatever internet forum for your particular car will have all the info you need.

nereo

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #68 on: October 06, 2015, 03:26:13 PM »
I can't find a set of rims cheaper than $260 including shipping.  I've been checking craigslist but I haven't seen anything.

Be patient, keep watching craigslist.  Also look at searchtempest, which lets you search multiple craigslist sites.
Thank you for this!!  I travel a lot so I'm constantly checking craigslist in four or five different markets.  I kept thinking "wouldn't it be great if Craigslist allows you to search multiple areas simultaniously?"


turketron

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #69 on: October 06, 2015, 04:42:36 PM »
I've considered this myself, as I had a second set of rims with dedicated winter tires on my last car before it got totaled and really liked them. In fact, the rims for that car are still up in the rafters of my parents' garage, so this is a good reminder that I should put those up on Craigslist (Anyone want rims for a '97 VW Golf?)!

However, I don't think I'm planning on doing this for my current car. I walk to work in the winter, so even though it's really cold/snowy here I only drive my car about once a week in winter, if that. Furthermore, most of the trips I do make in the winter are to run errands or something, so if it was really icy or snowy I can usually just not make the trip. I've had regular all-season tires on it for the past 3-4 winters and it's been fine for the small amount of driving I end up doing in the winter.

Regardless, this thread is a wealth of information that I'll definitely keep in mind for my next car, so thanks everyone for the great info!

PFHC

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #70 on: October 06, 2015, 10:17:03 PM »
Google trailer rims. I got mine for $25 a piece on tire warehouse, got the tires there too, had them mount and balance them as well. With delivery I  paid close to $600.

Did you check to make sure they have a high enough weight and speed rating to be used on a car?
They're made of 3/16" steel. Been using trailer rims for three winters on this car, three on a previous car and two on a 2WD Tacoma years ago. No issues.

TheThirstyStag

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #71 on: October 07, 2015, 06:06:41 PM »
I can't find a set of rims cheaper than $260 including shipping.  I've been checking craigslist but I haven't seen anything.

Be patient, keep watching craigslist.  Also look at searchtempest, which lets you search multiple craigslist sites.  $100 to $150 for a set of 4 used take-off wheels seems pretty common -- and because you're going to mount winter tires on them and abuse them in salt/slush, then scraped/scratched wheels are cheap and a good choice for this use.

Also google the wheel specs for your exact car, and see what other vehicles use the same exact size wheel.  I mean the exact specs -- not just diameter, width, and bolt pattern, but also backspacing and offset.  (If you aren't familiar with these terms, google.)

Finally, if there is an optional size wheel for your car, which uses cheaper size tires, consider it.  For example, if your car came with 17" wheels, but 16" wheels also fit (i.e. if your car came with an "upgraded" larger size wheel), you may find that winter tires in a 16" size are less expensive.  If this is an option for you, be sure that your car didn't have some other option that prevents using a smaller wheel (e.g. larger brake rotors).  Again, google and whatever internet forum for your particular car will have all the info you need.

Great information here.

Let me add: Regarding the optional wheel size, make sure the tire you use has the same overall diameter as the stock rims/tire combo.  Otherwise your speedometer will be off, and ultimately your odometer.

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #72 on: October 08, 2015, 09:23:27 AM »
Great information here.

Let me add: Regarding the optional wheel size, make sure the tire you use has the same overall diameter as the stock rims/tire combo.  Otherwise your speedometer will be off, and ultimately your odometer.
It never occurred to me that tire size would effect an odometer reading, but in terms of simple geometry it makes sense (the perimeter of a circle increases at a rate of pi relative to the diameter).
That said - how "off" can this make the odometer? I'm looking at used cars now and suddenly I'm concerned that the odometer reading might be substantialy lower than the actual miles driven if the owner switched from, say, 15" tires to 17" tires (does it work that way??)

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #73 on: October 08, 2015, 09:28:14 AM »
It's not the wheel size that matters, it's the rolling distance at the outside of the tire.

And it can be off by a lot. :)  It's usually fine, though.  Typical errors are on the order of 2-5%.

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #74 on: October 08, 2015, 10:18:20 AM »
Here is a good resource to compute how far off your speedometer will read with a different tire size:

http://tire-size-conversion.com/speedometer-calibration/

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #75 on: October 08, 2015, 10:34:57 AM »
It never occurred to me that tire size would effect an odometer reading, but in terms of simple geometry it makes sense (the perimeter of a circle increases at a rate of pi relative to the diameter).
That said - how "off" can this make the odometer? I'm looking at used cars now and suddenly I'm concerned that the odometer reading might be substantialy lower than the actual miles driven if the owner switched from, say, 15" tires to 17" tires (does it work that way??)

It may not make any difference -- it's generally possible to increase the wheel size while keeping the outside tire diameter the same (or so close as to be insignificant).  This means changing the height of the tire sidewall, which can have an effect on ride and handling -- shorter sidewalls mean there is less tire to flex, so a shorter sidewall ("low profile" tire) will generally ride a little rougher and handle a little sharper than a taller sidewall.

I'm giving lots of generalizations here, under the assumption that the reader is unfamiliar with these concepts.

Tire Rack gives a good explanation and illustration of this:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=25

Le Poisson

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #76 on: October 08, 2015, 11:12:35 AM »
...Of course if you have a GPS to use for speed, the error diminishes. A GPS tells you what happened in the past though (it can't be instantaneous) so you still have some error, but if you read your speed off a GPS rather than the oddometer, you have a pretty good idea of how fast you are going - and since we all stay well within the speed limit in order to minimize fuel consumption, a milisecond of error should be OK - right?

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #77 on: October 08, 2015, 11:46:51 AM »
It never occurred to me that tire size would effect an odometer reading, but in terms of simple geometry it makes sense (the perimeter of a circle increases at a rate of pi relative to the diameter).
That said - how "off" can this make the odometer? I'm looking at used cars now and suddenly I'm concerned that the odometer reading might be substantialy lower than the actual miles driven if the owner switched from, say, 15" tires to 17" tires (does it work that way??)

It's not the wheel size that matters, it's the rolling distance at the outside of the tire.

And it can be off by a lot. :)  It's usually fine, though.  Typical errors are on the order of 2-5%.

In terms of worrying about the odometer reading on a used car, about the only time it would matter is if you were buying a ridiculously-unmustachian modified 4x4 with gigantic Super Swamper tires (think "street-legal monster truck").

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #78 on: October 08, 2015, 12:07:18 PM »
I don't know what it is like in the US, but I seriously doubt you can change the tire size to whatever you like without running into serious (insurance) issues, unless you have the combination inspected and certified in some way, or the manufacturer allows that specific wheel size.

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #79 on: October 08, 2015, 12:19:07 PM »
Just my 2 cents - Nereo and others are right, it is temperature and rubber compounds and tread pattern.  I have seen a 4x4 Subaru slip and slide on slush at about freezing, with all-seasons.  They just do not have the grip.

I do prefer all-seasons for my summer tire, because they will take the colder spring/fall temperatures with no problems.  Once we are into November I watch the 14 day forecast, and try to get my winter tires on before we will see much snow.  Same in spring, I look ahead to see when I can switch back.

Steel rims for winter are great, it means just switching tires,and the actual tires last longer.

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Re: Should I buy 2nd set of rims for car?
« Reply #80 on: October 08, 2015, 06:30:42 PM »
I don't know what it is like in the US, but I seriously doubt you can change the tire size to whatever you like without running into serious (insurance) issues, unless you have the combination inspected and certified in some way, or the manufacturer allows that specific wheel size.

In the US, you can pretty much do whatever you want.

This, for instance, is totally legit most places.