Author Topic: Deleted  (Read 6136 times)

bender

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Deleted
« on: September 03, 2017, 07:15:57 AM »
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« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 08:41:31 AM by bender »

KungfuRabbit

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2017, 07:23:52 AM »
Xfinity gives free antivirus to customers. Maybe your ISP does too...

afulldeck

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2017, 08:40:02 AM »
A couple of thoughts, some which you already might do:
  • Be a standard user not and admin user during normal usage of your PC. Only switch to admin when you need too do an admin function.
  • For your router check out : https://www.tomsguide.com/us/home-router-security,news-19245.html
  • Is Windows defender good enough? It depends what your looking for. I does a reasonable job for Windows/Microsoft outlook/IE, but that is where it ends. Its last test on 'zero day' was 99% effective, way up from two years ago, however Bitdefender and Avast where they achieved 100%. The best thing about defender in my view is that its always running in the background, updating several times a day keeping the virus list up to date.
  • Good news is you can't mess with defender without messing with the registry. And you have it unless you install another av package so you always have some sort of protection


Retire-Canada

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2017, 09:25:55 AM »
Looking for a recommendation for a decent anti-virus for my PC laptop.  I use AVG free now, but it has gotten beyond annoying with constant pop ups and sales pitches.  AVG has become borderline malware itself on my PC.

I use AVG. I get a couple pop ups in the morning when I boot up my computer. It's slightly annoying, but I remind myself I am getting a useful service for free and that resolves any irritation.

GenXbiker

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2017, 10:11:06 AM »

Defender is fine AV software for Windows 8 and 10, and I use it for both.  For Windows 7, Defender only provides spyware protection.  You can install the free Microsoft Security Essentials to get antivirus protection on Windows 7.

For my Windows 7 system, I use Avira Antivir free version and the paid version of Malwarebytes Antimalware.

jim555

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2017, 10:24:29 AM »
Another option, just use Linux and not worry about it.

Bicycle_B

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2017, 10:31:35 AM »
A paid option that is very effective AFAIK is Webroot.  No ads whatsoever! 

Is your time for a year worth $60?

Obviously, it's whatever time you normally spend being distracted by the ads.  How much time is that?

afulldeck

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2017, 10:58:08 AM »
Another option, just use Linux and not worry about it.

Best thing I ever did. 

RWD

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2017, 11:04:49 AM »
Another option, just use Linux and not worry about it.

Best thing I ever did.

I also ditched Windows many years ago. Don't miss it at all.

Polaria

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2017, 11:08:49 AM »
I've been using the free version of Avast for years, works like a charm.

Daley

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2017, 11:34:39 AM »
Currently?
Free: Avira, Bitdefender, Microsoft Defender.
Paid: Kaspersky, Bitdefender.

Alas, NOD32 isn't quite what it used to be, and AVG has always been terrible. It's also worth noting that with most *all* free AV solutions, (excluding Microsoft's and I believe Bitdefender's) have taken to bundling bloatware, adware, hijacking search engines on install, and other unsavory tricks to generate ad revenue... so be careful and either pay close attention to the install process or use Ninite to install the AV software with if what you're after is available through their installer.

Anyone inclined to either AVG or Avast should just uninstall it and go with the default Windows Defender, equal to better protection, none of the drawbacks. Also ignore the free bundled AV solution from many ISPs, they usually give you McAfee or Norton, and you're better off driving nails through your motherboard to protect your computer against malicious software. (There's some hyperbole here, and I won't deny that Norton has gotten better over the recent years, but both are still choices that only at best run parallel to the mid-grade free options.)

Before installing any recommended AV software from anyone, however, check reliability track records for the software yourself. Don't just look at current results, either, go back and look at historical results spanning at least a couple years as well.
https://www.av-comparatives.org/
https://www.av-test.org/en/
https://www.virusbulletin.com/

Linux is always a good option as well, but it's still not a 100% guarantee. Everyone is under attack these days.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 11:40:19 AM by I.P. Daley »

Dave1442397

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2017, 12:23:46 PM »
I use the paid version of Bitdefender, and it has caught everything over the past four or five years that I've been using it.

GuitarStv

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2017, 01:45:54 PM »
Viruses and malware tend to be a problem because of actions of the user.  This is true regardless of the OS you run.  Don't click on the 'free boobies' ads.  Don't install stuff unless you know what it's doing.  Don't run programs from companies you don't trust.  Don't click on email attachments as a general rule.  Do use a firewall.  Do use passwords.  Do not use your superuser/admin account by default.  If you follow these practices, you're probably going to be fine even without running anti-virus.

While Linux is great (I've got several Linux boxes in the house), if you think that it's immune to attack from malware it really just shows that you don't know what you're talking about.  Malicious URLs, rootkits, email attachments, bad applications . . . they all exist in any operating system.  An idiot user is not better protected in Linux than in Windows 7, 8, or 10.  Granted, Linux is an OS that has a significantly smaller market share . . . so generally speaking less malware development is likely going on.  That will change as more people adopt Linux though.  You are not protected by using Linux, and it's a mistake to think that you are.

jim555

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2017, 02:14:14 PM »
Linux is much better by design, it not just because it has a smaller user base and less people targeting it.  No Linux distro includes an anti-virus by default.  The general incompetence of Microsoft and bad design decisions have plagued that OS for years.

GenXbiker

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2017, 02:26:45 PM »
Another option, just use Linux and not worry about it.
I never worry about my Windows or Linux systems, either one.  I take necessary precautions - and no worries.

GuitarStv

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2017, 05:56:09 PM »
Linux is much better by design, it not just because it has a smaller user base and less people targeting it.  No Linux distro includes an anti-virus by default.  The general incompetence of Microsoft and bad design decisions have plagued that OS for years.

I certainly won't defend stupid decisions that Microsoft has made in the past, but there's little/nothing in the way of design that makes say a Ubuntu or Red Hat distro inherently better against targeted malware than a windows 10 box.

HipGnosis

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2017, 07:22:41 PM »
Viruses and malware tend to be a problem because of actions of the user.  This is true regardless of the OS you run.  Don't click on the 'free boobies' ads.  Don't install stuff unless you know what it's doing.  Don't run programs from companies you don't trust.  Don't click on email attachments as a general rule.  Do use a firewall.  Do use passwords.  Do not use your superuser/admin account by default.  If you follow these practices, you're probably going to be fine even without running anti-virus.
Good.
But...
You should also include "Don't trust companies without a valid, proven reason to trust them"

jim555

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2017, 08:29:08 PM »
Closed source proprietary OSes like Windows are black boxes that can't be checked except by reverse engineering.  Linux source code is open for review by the whole community.  No telling how many security vulnerabilities exist in closed source.  You don't even know how much the OS is spying on you by design. 

Linux programs usually come from known repositories and most programs are open source as well.  The Windows ecosystem lends itself to programs coming in from the wild.  Only recently does MS have a "store", which most people still don't use.

Unix like OSes have always had user privileges and limitations on what a user is able to do.  Windows has always treated security as an afterthought and the concept of having a profile that is limited has only been pushed in the more recent years.

Practically the whole Internet runs on Linux servers yet we don't hear about parts of the Internet going down due to viruses.  Usually anti-virus software is run on Linux to protect Windows boxes from infection, not the other way around.





Lan Mandragoran

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2017, 11:02:38 PM »
Dont use Windows if your not a sys admin that has to. Thats my suggestion, anecdotally I very very rarely see Mac or linux boxes get malware  ;P. Windows defender is probably the best TECHNICALLY, as its Microsoft's own software that has unique advantages to how it was designed in house at Windows.

 If you are a sys admin just skip the AV crutch as its a security problem in itself, it adds a logical layer on top of the kernel which has to interface with other logical layers of your os, creating complication which creates vulnerabilities where communication failed or imperfect code was implemented.  Google chrome's lead designer is on record as saying the #1 difficulty of designing a secure browser is AV related vulnerabilities if I recall correctly.

Obviously that requires you have a basic knowledge of what not to do to avoid malware... but still :). Just my 2 cents as a Sys Admin that does some security work ^^.

GrumpyPenguin

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2017, 05:33:28 AM »
Currently?
Free: Avira, Bitdefender, Microsoft Defender.
Paid: Kaspersky, Bitdefender.

Alas, NOD32 isn't quite what it used to be, and AVG has always been terrible. It's also worth noting that with most *all* free AV solutions, (excluding Microsoft's and I believe Bitdefender's) have taken to bundling bloatware, adware, hijacking search engines on install, and other unsavory tricks to generate ad revenue... so be careful and either pay close attention to the install process or use Ninite to install the AV software with if what you're after is available through their installer.

Anyone inclined to either AVG or Avast should just uninstall it and go with the default Windows Defender, equal to better protection, none of the drawbacks. Also ignore the free bundled AV solution from many ISPs, they usually give you McAfee or Norton, and you're better off driving nails through your motherboard to protect your computer against malicious software. (There's some hyperbole here, and I won't deny that Norton has gotten better over the recent years, but both are still choices that only at best run parallel to the mid-grade free options.)

Before installing any recommended AV software from anyone, however, check reliability track records for the software yourself. Don't just look at current results, either, go back and look at historical results spanning at least a couple years as well.
https://www.av-comparatives.org/
https://www.av-test.org/en/
https://www.virusbulletin.com/

Linux is always a good option as well, but it's still not a 100% guarantee. Everyone is under attack these days.

I think this is the best advice I've seen here.  Mirrors my thoughts on anti-virus.

eostache

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2017, 08:39:46 AM »
Another option, just use Linux and not worry about it.

I use my Chromebook most of the time. No virus worries.

For my Windows 7 machine (seldom use it these days) I use the Norton that is free with my ISP.

ExitViaTheCashRamp

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2017, 12:19:17 PM »
AVG used to be good. Then they decided to sell your browser history for fun and profit. No joke.

http://www.wired.co.uk/article/avg-privacy-policy-browser-search-data

GenXbiker

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2017, 12:42:09 PM »
Anyone inclined to either AVG or Avast should just uninstall it and go with the default Windows Defender, equal to better protection, none of the drawbacks.

Windows defender is probably the best TECHNICALLY, as its Microsoft's own software that has unique advantages to how it was designed in house at Windows.

Anyone inclined to either AVG or Avast should just uninstall it and go with the default Windows Defender, equal to better protection, none of the drawbacks.

I think this is the best advice I've seen here.  Mirrors my thoughts on anti-virus.

This is bad advice if you read the OP.  He mentioned having a Windows 7 laptop.   The version of Defender included in Windows 7 is not the same as Windows 8 and 10.  The Windows 7 version of Defender does NOT provide antivirus protection, so it would NOT be equal or better than third party AV software nor technically the best by any stretch on that system.  If you add Microsoft Security Essentials, that helps close the gap with third party solutions.  I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but it looks like it bears repeating.

Daley

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2017, 02:26:20 PM »
This is bad advice if you read the OP.  He mentioned having a Windows 7 laptop.   The version of Defender included in Windows 7 is not the same as Windows 8 and 10.  The Windows 7 version of Defender does NOT provide antivirus protection, so it would NOT be equal or better than third party AV software nor technically the best by any stretch on that system.  If you add Microsoft Security Essentials, that helps close the gap with third party solutions.  I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but it looks like it bears repeating.

You're nitpicking over a technicality in the name of the product from Microsoft. MSSE and Defender are basically the same product, excuse the W7 naming convention weirdness. I don't disagree with you on purely technical semantics, but you're assuming I meant otherwise... and for what exactly?

Yes, Win7's Microsoft AV solution is named Microsoft Security Essentials. Yes, there's also a worthless Microsoft Defender for Win7 that's a completely different product than the Defender for Win8/10. You pointed that out already, which is why I just used the blanket Defender instead of pedantically saying, "use MSSE on the Win 7 laptop, use Defender on the Win 10 machine, they're the same thing despite the different naming conventions." I am sorry that there was this minor omission on my own part over this incredibly finite and easily forgotten yet relevant detail, and I'm sorry that this somehow offended you despite basically agreeing and backing up your own advice.

Don't confuse the OP and tear down good advice that agrees with you over matters of petty in-house brand bickering within Redmond itself. Clarification is enough.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 02:27:56 PM by I.P. Daley »

GenXbiker

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2017, 02:51:10 PM »
This is bad advice if you read the OP.  He mentioned having a Windows 7 laptop.   The version of Defender included in Windows 7 is not the same as Windows 8 and 10.  The Windows 7 version of Defender does NOT provide antivirus protection, so it would NOT be equal or better than third party AV software nor technically the best by any stretch on that system.  If you add Microsoft Security Essentials, that helps close the gap with third party solutions.  I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but it looks like it bears repeating.

You're nitpicking over a technicality in the name of the product from Microsoft. MSSE and Defender are basically the same product, excuse the W7 naming convention weirdness. I don't disagree with you on purely technical semantics, but you're
assuming I meant otherwise... and for what exactly?


What I stated is NOT nitpicking.  It is pointing out what I consider to a critical distinction in the case of Windows 7.  It is NOT just semantics.  In Windows 7, Defender and Security Essentials are most definitely not the same product.  Also you mentioned "the default," and MSSE is not a default.  I've worked in IT since well before Windows 7 was released, and I've seen plenty of people think they were covered in Windows 7 with just Defender.  If the OP takes your recommendation to only use Defender as stated for his Windows 7 systems, then that would leave him unprotected.  The OP may know better or may have read my earlier comment, but it's a mistake to assume that, especially when there are contradictory posts stating "defender is best."  I'm not saying you "meant" otherwise, but it could easily be perceived that way by readers.

Quote
I am sorry that there was this minor omission on my own part over this incredibly finite and easily forgotten yet relevant detail, and I'm sorry that this somehow offended you despite basically agreeing and backing up your own advice.

I'm sorry you took it personally, but I considered it a major omission since the important distinction was not mentioned in two other posts plus one that agreed with those comments.  I'm just wanting to make sure the correct information is not passed over leaving the OP vulnerable.  Thank you for your support.

Quote
Don't confuse the OP and tear down good advice that agrees with you over matters of petty in-house brand bickering within Redmond itself. Clarification is enough.

Exactly what I was doing - clarifying.  Sorry you felt I was offending you.  That was not my intention.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 03:02:41 PM by GenXbiker »

scottish

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2017, 03:09:10 PM »
Hey, could you clarify the windows 7 story please?

I'm running Microsoft security essentials out of the box on my 2 Windows 7 systems.   It includes virus and spyware definitions.    How is this different from Windows Defender?

In terms of security in Windows, we do this:

1.  Nobody runs as an admin, so malware is sandboxed to their local account.   This saved us once or twice.
2.  Java and Flash browser plugins are uninstalled.    Pretty sure the two occasions where we got malware it was via Flash security bugs.
3.  Everybody is educated on not downloading stuff from the internet, especially from e-mails and browser pop-ups.   If we used internet explorer, then I'd have to disable active-x as well, I suppose.
4.  'Things' are not allowed to connect to our home network
5.  Windows script host is disabled.
6.  Windows updates  are automatically installed.

It's  a pain.


GenXbiker

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2017, 03:30:20 PM »
Hey, could you clarify the windows 7 story please?

I'm running Microsoft security essentials out of the box on my 2 Windows 7 systems.   It includes virus and spyware definitions.    How is this different from Windows Defender?

I think that is exactly the clarification I was making in my multiple posts in this thread.  The answer to your final question depends on whether you are comparing to Defender that is included with Win 7 or with Win 8/10.

If you rather read the same info direct from Microsoft, refer to:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/14210/security-essentials-download

Quotes from Microsoft site:

"Windows Defender for Windows 8, Windows RT, Windows 8.1, Windows RT 8.1, and Windows 10 provides built-in protection against malware. You can't use Microsoft Security Essentials, but you don't need to—Windows Defender is already included and ready to go."

"If you’re looking to protect a PC with an older version of running Windows 7, you can use Microsoft Security Essentials to provide comprehensive malware protection that will help guard against viruses, spyware, and other malicious software. It provides free* real-time protection for your home or small business PCs."

"Windows Defender is also available in Windows 7. However, in Windows 7, Defender only provides protection against spyware. In the Windows 8, Windows RT, Windows 8.1, Windows RT 8.1, and Windows 10, Windows Defender provides full malware protection for your PC. Malware consists of viruses, spyware, and other potentially unwanted software."

Also, some people should note the licensing terms of Microsoft Security Essentials, which differ from Defender.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13752

Licensing Terms of MSSE

Quotes from Microsoft site:

"Home Use. If you are a home user, then you may install and use any number of copies of the software on your personal devices for use by people who reside in your household."

"Small Business. If you operate a small business, then you may install and use the software on up to ten (10) devices in your business."

"Restrictions. The software may not be used on devices owned by government or academic institutions."
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 03:46:19 PM by GenXbiker »

Indexer

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2017, 03:39:17 PM »
Another option, just use Linux and not worry about it.

Exactly!!!  I've had a Chromebook since the original Samsung model. What's a virus?

Lan Mandragoran

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2017, 03:54:07 PM »
Anyone inclined to either AVG or Avast should just uninstall it and go with the default Windows Defender, equal to better protection, none of the drawbacks.

Windows defender is probably the best TECHNICALLY, as its Microsoft's own software that has unique advantages to how it was designed in house at Windows.

Anyone inclined to either AVG or Avast should just uninstall it and go with the default Windows Defender, equal to better protection, none of the drawbacks.

I think this is the best advice I've seen here.  Mirrors my thoughts on anti-virus.

This is bad advice if you read the OP.  He mentioned having a Windows 7 laptop.   The version of Defender included in Windows 7 is not the same as Windows 8 and 10.  The Windows 7 version of Defender does NOT provide antivirus protection, so it would NOT be equal or better than third party AV software nor technically the best by any stretch on that system.  If you add Microsoft Security Essentials, that helps close the gap with third party solutions.  I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but it looks like it bears repeating.

lol k. Get off windows 7 then if your serious about malware. Last I heard Win 7s support isn’t going on for a ton longer anyway.

GenXbiker

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Re: Antivirus protection for PCs
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2017, 06:18:53 PM »
Anyone inclined to either AVG or Avast should just uninstall it and go with the default Windows Defender, equal to better protection, none of the drawbacks.

Windows defender is probably the best TECHNICALLY, as its Microsoft's own software that has unique advantages to how it was designed in house at Windows.

Anyone inclined to either AVG or Avast should just uninstall it and go with the default Windows Defender, equal to better protection, none of the drawbacks.

I think this is the best advice I've seen here.  Mirrors my thoughts on anti-virus.

This is bad advice if you read the OP.  He mentioned having a Windows 7 laptop.   The version of Defender included in Windows 7 is not the same as Windows 8 and 10.  The Windows 7 version of Defender does NOT provide antivirus protection, so it would NOT be equal or better than third party AV software nor technically the best by any stretch on that system.  If you add Microsoft Security Essentials, that helps close the gap with third party solutions.  I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but it looks like it bears repeating.

lol k. Get off windows 7 then if your (sic) serious about malware. Last I heard Win 7s support isn’t going on for a ton longer anyway.

But pay attention to the original query.  The OP, who was asking, has a Windows 7 system as well as another OS.  A "ton" longer?  Actually, Windows 7 is supported until Jan 14, 2020, which is OVER 2 years away.  There's no rush to upgrade to Windows 8 or 10 at this time.  Many people prefer it to the newer Windows versions anyway, and there are plenty of free AV options, some mentioned here, so that's no reason to rush to upgrade for that reason, either.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 06:36:20 PM by GenXbiker »