Author Topic: Am i worrying too much w/o reason?  (Read 4199 times)

frugalamber

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Am i worrying too much w/o reason?
« on: January 06, 2015, 10:48:23 AM »
Sorry for the long post; but i am not sure where else to ask.

I just don't know how we each changed in last decade.
Being Indian and moving in US/Canada in our 20s, we are kind of mismatched expectations.

Some back ground: My future-spouse bought his father's 1 bhk in 2001 when he went to US for work the first time and Fil-mil lived in that apartment till 2006.
Fil bought a 3 bhk with that money + some other investment money which is rented from day 1.
I bought a 2 bhk apartment in 2003 for my parents in which they are living till now.
We got married in 2005 and bought a joint 2 bhk in 2006; where my in-laws moved and put the 1 bhk (spouse's) for rent.
All these 3 properties are paid off and are in india; but spouse/we still pay for maintaining/property taxes etc for the spouse's 1 bhk and the joint 2 bhk apartments. 1 bhk is in positive ROI; fil pay us very nominal rent for the 2 bhk apartment as per his ideas.

Work History: We were in USA for work (IT professionals) from 2001 - 2007 and were in India for 2007-2009.
Moved as permanent resident to Canada in 2009; had a baby in Jan 2010 and bought our townhouse in GTA in June 2010.
We both worked throughout with small exceptions of 3-6 months after moving to Canada and some unemployment for spouse.
I went back to work post-maternity and we both are in stable IT jobs in banks in Canada.

Basic Nature: We think we are frugal by nature though the numbers don't always agree. The best part is we always earned very well and spouse is always into investment; which gave us a good portfolio till now.
Both set of parents have government pensions and live in our homes so don't have much expenses as such. Both are happy with their financial circumstances and healthy for their age.
i had issues with money from birth as dad was an army officer but we always have stress about money at home. I always wanted to be independent and have my own money; which i achieved fairly early in life.
My mil has a huge competition steak with her relatives and always tries to map with what her elder sister's kids have achieved. She is also the one trying to push for bigger house (not the obvious way), and travel to US/Canada.
 I was never much into finances till my baby was born in 2010; always had more than enough after i started working. I found MMM in 20013 and some personal finance writers before that and got very heavily involved in expenses tracking and our saving portfolio.

Current Issue/s:
1) Recently while talking about our goals, my spouse shocked me by saying, he will be always paying for his parent's health related expenses even to the point of impacting our future. But he thinks this may never happen.
2) Another issue popped-up - the smaller 1 bhk is now being re-constructed by a builder, and spouse want to sell our joint 2 bhk and consolidate both the apartments into 1 big 3 bhk apartment. Then his plan is that the in-laws will move to this apartment. I am against this plan as i think 3 bhk is too big for a couple in 60s and 2 bhk is sufficient. He thinks the ROI for this 3 BHK will be better than what we get in US.

Other details: We are in our mid to late 30s right now and are expecting second and last baby in March 2015 and I will take 6 months maternity/parental leave (EI paid). Spouse wants to take 4 months parental leave(EI paid) as well; then the 10 month old baby will go to day care.
We are also paying for flights for both set of parents (expenses - $5000) so they can be with us for at least the next 1 year. Also grocery/utilities/eating out expenses goes up due to having 2 extra adults here.
We are also planning to sell our 2006 Toyota Corolla and buy Sienna (expenses - $25000) to transport 4 adults and 2 kids.
Also in the plans is home improvement (expenses - $30000) - including basement completion, hardwood floors and other misc. work to be done by contractors.
We have $50 K saved in year 2014 for the above expenses, rest will need to go to 0% cash back MBNA master card payable in 11 months.
We have almost CAD $400k in investments, and $550K in properties; this is after taking $275K mortgage liability out. No other loans or liabilities. We have income of $200K pre-tax (full year) and $80k yearly expenses including $10k private school for child 1.

As per my calculation, we will only be saving the RESP, TFSA and RRSP for this year and no non-taxable savings.

Am I stupid to worry about the situation? Hubby says I need to stop worrying about money and everything will fall in place.

Acroynam:
Fil - Father in law
Mil - Mother in law
BHK/bhk - Bedroom/hall/kitchen (eg., 1 bhk - 1 bedroom 1 bath) - flats/apartments as measured in india

Little clarification added
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 01:07:10 PM by frugalamber »

nereo

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Re: Am i worrying too much w/o reason?
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2015, 11:13:31 AM »
thanks or explaining the "bhk" - i had no idea what that was until the end of the post, then had to re-read the post again.

For starters, you are overall in a very good financial position and I don't think you need to be as concerned about money per se as you seem to be.  You seem to be fairly young (early 30s?) with $400k in investments and a lot in real estate.  That's a pretty enviable position to start from.  Plus, you were able to save $50k in 2014 - that's a huge chunk of change.

However, it seems that the real source of your apprehension isn't how much you have, but what you have an how money is allocated.  Your husband believes that he should always provide for his parents health and care, and you are less certain about that.  how come?  Are his parents financially stable themselves?  If so maybe you could reach an agreement that you will serve as 'backstop' in case of extraordinary expenses, but his parents should be responsible for paying for their own insurance (if they can). His heart is in the right place and it may very well be a cultural thing at work here, but you and your husband need to come up with a plan that is workable for both of you.

also, you seem nervous about all the properties that you own.  Without knowing a great deal aobut the individual markets and properties, it's impossible to say whether these are good, great, or poor investments, and whether you should sell of keep these properties.  However, are your properties cash-flow positive? Does being a landlord cause both of you a lot of stress or do you both enjoy it? If you don't mind the landlording and you are making >6%/year after factoring in depreciation and tax benefits, then by all means thank your lucky stars you have such a great portfolio.  But if neither of you likes being a landlord (and it sounds like you are paying contractors to do most of the work), then both of you should consider slowly divesting and selling off the properties, and putting all of that money either into an index fund or an REIT.
With "550k in properties" you could have $1M invested by the end of this year, and it would involve almost no work at all. 

Finally, you are worried about not saving anything in taxable accounts in 2015.  If you are maxing out your RESP, TFSA and RRSP for 2015 then you will still be doing very well.  Whether you should be saving in taxable accounts as well has a lot to do with whether you will need that money earlier or not. Since you have rental properties that will provide you with some income if/when you decide to retire early or take maternity leave. 

hope that helps.  You are doing well - but it isn't how well you are doing that worries you, it's how you are doing it.

frugalamber

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Re: Am i worrying too much w/o reason?
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2015, 01:14:56 PM »
Thank you nereo for taking the time to read it twice and giving your thoughts. I am having major panic sessions as my/our plans is to FIRE by year 2030. We will be in our 50s by then. My spouse will only fill comfortable to pull the trigger if we have managed to reach liquid investment of 2 Million and paid of home in US/Canada by then. Hence, i always feel like that is my end line and if we don't reach it we will forever be working.

If he goes by my plans, i am sure we will hit these numbers but every time he comes with a new India investment/expenses plan, i feel like we will not reach our goal and hence stuck working forever which is what causes most stress in my mind. I am working last 15 years with very little breaks and always had the additional burden of being the eldest child married to another eldest child so super responsible. I feel we missed all the fun time.

Most of it is also probably how we each see responsibilities among us. I think our primary responsibility is for us and our kids and he thinks it is us, kids, parents and his sibling as well.

Every year around this time, when i do the expense reports, i also get the shock of how much we spent; most of it is spent in something we both believes in, but the total amount does shock me. Anyway, wanted to hear a neutral party opinion so posted in the forum.

nereo

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Re: Am i worrying too much w/o reason?
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2015, 01:57:43 PM »
Glad I could be of help.  Given what you have said, I think you are well on your way of hitting the $2M mark well before 2030.  As it stands, you have ~$400CAD in investments plus $550 in properties (after taking mortgage liability out).    Your pre-tax income is $200k and your annual expenses are around $80k.  Continued effort could bring your expenses down considerably, but even without any decrease in spending/increases in savings your investments could very easily top $1.5M within 10 years.*  That's not including your properties, which (if only keeping up with inflation) would push you over the $2M mark. Liquid investments could very easily top $2M within 13 years.

What it sounds like from your post though is that your husband and you are not entirely on the same page about how best to invest your money.  Statements like "...he comes with a new Indian investment/expenses plan" worry me.   A core strategy of reaching FI is to have a simple investment strategy and then stick to that strategy, not change frequently and hope to catch the hot market/investment scheme/winning horse.  My suggestion is to talk with your husband and together agree that you will put xx% of your savings into equities/index funds, xx% into real estate, xx% into bonds, and (if it will make him happy) up to xx% into 'new Indian investment ideas'.  This is your asset allocation (AA), and it's something you both need to agree on, and then stick to.  Once you have your AA, I think you can both stop worrying, and you can spend your time thinking about happier things, like your young children.

*figure of $1.5M in 10 years based on $400k principle + $50k annual contributions (based on 2014) earning 7% returns.  YMMV.

simplified

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Re: Am i worrying too much w/o reason?
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2015, 02:34:51 PM »
I think you guys are in a good financial position due to a high rate of savings and high earnings. Having said that, this is what came to my mind after reading your post.

How much income do you think you will need in retirement and will your investments generate that income? The ROI for rental properties in India is extremely low. The property values have been going up but the rupee has depreciated a lot in the last few years as well. How do you eventually plan to liquidate the properties? Are you aware of all the tax consequences and other rules that affect the sale and transfer of these assets back to Canada? These are things that I would be concerned about.

Personally, if your long term goal is to live and raise kids in Canada/US, I would not invest anything in India, considering you already have a lot there. The risk is just too high in my opinion. You can not sell properties at market value, you will have to pay significant capital gains and then the hassle of transferring such a large sum back to Canada is not worth it.


frugalamber

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Re: Am i worrying too much w/o reason?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2015, 09:00:39 AM »
Simplified, you thought of some of the issues I am struggling with. The issue of finally settling is also a big concern. I want to stay in Canada forever but spouse is still thinking India may be an option. Too many unknowns.
So having some investments for the time being is ok, but the depreciating rupee is a huge unknown.
I liked the idea of asset allocation and then going from there. I am feeling I have got into the negative psychological issues as discussed in another message, not able to enjoy the current time, but being living in too much for future-us.
This is a persistent compliant from spouse that once I started looking into finances, I got too obsessed and hard core.
But not reaching goals as planned is difficult for my personality type.

 

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