32x....Black Bart’s cave, cliff divers, jump dammit jump!!I reworked my spreadsheets to give me some stats. I'll update the OP in amoment.
Are you sure your SO is FI? Are they on board with FIRE? Are you sure they feel the same way about not having kids?Yes, yes, and yes.
Also, have you considered transitioning to part-time work?Part-time, no, but I could likely find a way to work independent contracts. That would at least allow me breaks between gigs (if I turned down work). That was the big decision I was trying to make last year. In the end of I was seduced by GigaCorp, but upon separation I'd pursue contracts as part of my exit strategy.
Or would your SO consider moving to a LCOL area?Nope. Too many local ties so that's not on the table.
Things that concern me - your lifestyle in FIRE would be propped up a bit by SO's contributions. If you part ways could you maintain the same lifestyle? Would you be ok with that decline in lifestyle?If they got hit by a bus before we combined finances, I'd be in a bit of a pickle. Moving to a MCOL area would mitigate that risk and probably improve my lifestyle to be honest. I'm not from around these parts and have no such attachments to the place. I'm not worried about this.
you could alsoWell, coasting isn't going to work. There are too many people that I care just enough about who would be impacted by my total fucking off. Plus getting fired would impact my reputation and ability to do contracts in the future. It's a small world.
3) Coast. Do your job, but make it lower priority than other things. Take time to hit the gym, eat right, etc. Stop doing any work outside of hours.
The man slapped the golden handcuffs on you. Run don’t walk.Kinda, yeah. The pay is good. The only real obligation is a small signing bonus I'd have to pay back if I bail. So more like golden blinders than golden handcuffs.
I'd recommend reading some of Malkynn's posts on this thread
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/continue-the-blog-conversation/how-to-slow-down-time/msg2301187/#msg2301187
A professional’s insecurity is rooted in the inherent intangibility of knowledge work. How do you convince your client that you know something worthwhile and justify the high fees you charge? The insecurity caused by this intangibility is exacerbated by the rigorous “up or out” promotion system perpetuated by elite professional organizations, which turns your colleagues into your competitors.
...
Exacerbating this problem, elite professional organizations deliberately set out to identify and recruit “insecure overachievers” — some leading professional organizations explicitly use this terminology, though not in public.
That being said, the biggest thing that stuck out to me here was the neglecting of your health. Can you elaborate more on this? Are you not exercising? Gaining wait? Eating poorly? Drinking more?Ding ding ding ding
To me - this can be a major make/break in terms of happiness that can directly relate to work. If I don’t get my exercise in, I notice my fuse gets much shorter at work. My energy is lower. I’m generally just more unhappy. When my diet starts slipping some I notice similar effects.I'm sure it's a factor. There's a vicious feedback loop at play. I manage that stuff pretty well when I have enough spare mental processing power to make good decisions in the moment. If I really had my overall life balance down, there would be a routine that eliminated the need to make good decisions in the moment.
What really worked for me though was going contract. I just finished a summer off where I slept and pottered and did my personal projects until I was recharged and excited to go back to work.Now you're speaking my language. I've taken a few sabbaticals and felt similarly recharged.
But you? You are FI and still trading your health to increase your hoard. Why? What is holding you there? Ego? The title? Fear? Why not do some contracts and use this to ease your way out of corporate life?Good questions. And perhaps this is where I wonder if I could get the phone number for Dr. Doom's therapist.
As many early retirees point out, retiring early has an underwhelming effect on happiness. It's doubtful that RE by itself would make any real improvement on these concerns and, in fact, could make them worse.
- Ageism. This is a big deal in my industry, so I treat it like a now or never situation.
- Empathy. I'm worried about some people close to me, including my parents. I keep thinking that if I just work a little harder, everyone around me will be ok.
- Independence. I moved to a HCOL area, making me dependent on my SO to cover the bills. Our relationship is solid but still growing. I don't want my RE to impact her FI.
- Envy. Some of my peers and superiors seem to have it all. Ridiculous incomes. Work-life balance. Family. Hobbies. Travel. I haven't cracked that nut and am beginning to think it's a farce. Still, I can't help but wonder if FIREing from GigaCorp is a failure to take advantage of all that I could achieve.
Reading your post, if you moved to HCOL and need your SO’s income to cover your living expensesNo no, not mine. I cover my half of everything, with enough left over for fun and keeping up the savings rate. If I were to RE, I'd give up the savings and still have enough to cover my share of mandatory & discretionary expenses. It's like fire with a small "f". I only mention this topic because if the SO were to run off to Morocco with a tall dark stranger, I'd be at risk of not being able to cover 100% of the current expenses of the HCOL area on my own. If I moved to MCOL, then I'd be FIRE with a big "F" and be truly independent, which is my mitigation to that risk.
When returning from my last sabbatical, it was amazing how productive and energized I was.This was my experience too. I mean, the work still wasn't all that great, but man was it refreshing.
As many early retirees point out, retiring early has an underwhelming effect on happiness. It's doubtful that RE by itself would make any real improvement on these concerns and, in fact, could make them worse.Fair warning. One must have their mindset in order. I'm not worried about this in general - I took a couple trial runs (sabbaticals) and I found that while not working isn't a panacea for one's ills or a form of instant-fullfillment, it is amazing what one can accomplish if the mind isn't shackled by 101 million work-related preoccupations. That said, I did struggle a bit with the self-assigned guilt that came with screwing off and not using my earning potential. It was minor and manageable and not altogether surprising.
Finding this thread highly relatable, I like the idea of shifting to contract work. Maybe you would do better with short sprints interspersed with long sabbaticals.That's the dream right there. If I could work part-year, I could fill the rest of the time with a number of endeavors and be happy filling my free time that way.
Even setting out a plan could ease your mind -- the scary part will be executing. Set a goal of quitting after your bonus. Let your corp know that you love working with them but just need an extended break to recharge and that you would be willing to come back on a contract basis after X amount of time.That's pretty much what I want to tell them. Partially I'm wavering a bit because I haven't been at GigaCorp too long. I'll have to be careful with the message.
Then commit to doing something not work related for whatever amount of time you think would work for you. After that time is up, reach back out to your network and see what you can arrange.I have a badass project in mind. It'll take about 2 years to complete and it won't earn a penny. Unfortunately it would mostly preclude me from taking paid contracts too, so as you can see I have some things to deconflict.
If you keep planning for all of these financial *wants,* even if they're selfless, then you'll never RE. Time to make a change.It's true. And part of my angst does come from not giving myself permission to claim my reward.
I’m hearing that you have the money and the ability to stop and recalibrate your life on your own terms. I’m also hearing that what’s stopping you is fear - that from your own admission comes from a vague feeling of insecurity - probably from beliefs formed early in life, that don’t need to control your behavior any more.Ehhh, maybe kinda. I mean I can stop and recalibrate. It's just that going all-in is kind of momentous. When I step off this gravy train, there won't be any getting back on. It's a lot to weigh.
Yes definitely. I didn't mean that you would plan to leave Gigacorp in 12 months and tell the company now. If you think you need to stay for two years total and you're only at a year now, then wait to tell them when you give notice.QuoteEven setting out a plan could ease your mind -- the scary part will be executing. Set a goal of quitting after your bonus. Let your corp know that you love working with them but just need an extended break to recharge and that you would be willing to come back on a contract basis after X amount of time.That's pretty much what I want to tell them. Partially I'm wavering a bit because I haven't been at GigaCorp too long. I'll have to be careful with the message.
I’m hearing that you have the money and the ability to stop and recalibrate your life on your own terms. I’m also hearing that what’s stopping you is fear - that from your own admission comes from a vague feeling of insecurity - probably from beliefs formed early in life, that don’t need to control your behavior any more.Ehhh, maybe kinda. I mean I can stop and recalibrate. It's just that going all-in is kind of momentous. When I step off this gravy train, there won't be any getting back on. It's a lot to weigh.
That said my over-developed sense of responsibility certainly doesn't help :)
Expense | Annual | Monthly | Description |
Health Ins Premiums | -$4,200 | -$350 | ACA silver plan with subsidies. |
Housing | -$11,400 | -$950 | My half of rent+insurance+utilities+storage unit. Very low vacancy rates and high home prices here. We have a pretty good deal. |
Transportation | -$3,600 | -$300 | Made-up projection for fuel and train tickets and taxis. I'm not sure how much I'd spend in RE. Could probably shave this down. |
Auto Ins | -$600 | -$50 | $500k liability insurance for my old car. If it gets hit by a meteor I'd just buy another one and enjoy the new project. |
Food | -$2,400 | -$200 | My contribution to groceries. |
Mobile | -$600 | -$50 | My bill with my MVNO is usually around $35/month. |
Other | -$1,800 | -$150 | Paper towels, whisky, handouts to street people, etc. |
Total | -$24,600 | -$2,000 | These are my minimum expenses |
ACA Subsidy Failure | -$4,800 | -$400 | If I don't qualify for subsidies and need to pay higher premiums, if not, I'll put it in my HSA or other healthcare savings. |
Housing Upgrade | -$5,400 | -$450 | If we had to move, we'd have a hard time finding another deal like we have. This is to mitigate that risk or maybe contribute towards a mortgage. Depressingly this would still not be enough to pay 50% of a mortgage on a house in this ridiculous market. |
Travel | -$9,600 | -$800 | Friends and family are scattered, some of my hobbies call for a certain amount of travel. I tend to do it on a budget. This feels pretty extravagant. |
Additional Auto Insurance | -$600 | -$50 | $500k liability insurance for my other projects. |
Hobbies | -$2,400 | -$200 | Yarn, sanding blocks, whisky still, furry outfits, martial arts weapons, civil war uniforms, etc. |
Gym | -$1,200 | -$100 | Salsa dancing or synchronized swimming lessons. |
Restaurants/Entertainment | -$2,400 | -$200 | Strip club steak dinners. |
Gifts | -$600 | -$50 | Birthdays and such |
Gear Maintenance | -$1,800 | -$150 | Car/axe/fishingrod/go-kart/blimp repairs. |
Total | -$28,800 | -$2,400 | These are my discretionary expenses. |
Grand Total | -$53,400 | -$4,400 | My total planned expenses in FIRE, all covered at 3.5% of my 'stache. |
BTW where are you thinking you're going to retire abroad (I think about this all the time)?My username is a bit of a misnomer. More than a handful of years back and many dollars ago, I thought I would FIRE on a much smaller 'stache and use some geographic arbitrage to keep adventure in my life and my expenses down. After much deliberation though I came back to the States and decided I wanted a 'stache that would give me the option of being US-based. And then I grew roots. So now I'm more like retireInHCOLAmericaAndDreamOfLivingAbroadAt40. I'd go to Mexico.
Sounds like you are looking for permission, and the numbers support your decision.Not looking for permission, looking for flaws in my plan. For example, one of all y'all could have pointed out that I didn't include vehicle insurance in the budget above. Fixing that now. I'm looking for your toughest facepunches.
I would give it a test run, since the worst thing that happens is.....you go back to work after a kick ass couple of years off?
You were identifying your number based on a lower middle class, albeit comfortable, lifestyle.Interesting observation. You're on to something but I'd tweak it a bit. It's not that I don't want a modest lifestyle, it's that it's become a bit elusive since I settled in HCOL America. It's effing expensive to live simply here, but it's important to the other people in my life so I'm looking to make it work. It's a bit of a struggle at times. To give a sense of scale, it's bout 8x more expensive to buy and about 2.5x more to rent a modest home where I live now vs where I was raised. That's driven a lot of my increased savings. I want a damn garage where I can maintain my 20 year old car in peace.
You didn't want that. Maybe you didn't want to admit it to yourself, but that is what is what I thought immediately - and nothing I read through all the threads disconfirmed it.
1. I don't know about you, but I really don't want to have to "exist" based on my minimum expenses for the rest of my life - COL and unanticipated expenses alone will drive up your minimum expenses. The minimum will not remain stagnant.I'm with you. But this is all inflation adjusted, so there is that. But the components of my minimum expenses will surely change as I age. I assume that the categories that go up (healthcare) will be offset by the categories that go down (gasoline and travel and whisky). And as you mentioned, this is my global economic disaster scenario so it's not too likely to be an extended lifestyle.
2. You came up with $54K p.a. cushy expenses, representing 3.5% SWR of your stache - I'd start out with that - however, I'd add in more money for health insurance premiums.Fair enough, you and another poster suggested I estimate the full range of coverage costs. I'll do that today.
The bottom line is, at least in my opinion that the numbers have to work for both of you and you need to be in full agreement before you take your next step.Good point. This is done. We have a joint plan that shows how we could both put our FI-ness into RE-ness today and live a satisfying lifestyle, although I'm the only one that is hell-bent on going RE today. I attribute that to my industry and the oppressive nature of the modern corporation.
You've taken a sabbatical before, you know how it feels to relax and let go, to release all stress and recharge mentally and physically.I found it amazing at first, lightness, near bliss. Overall, not bad.
This is a good time given your age to move toward contract work, so work out the details and go for it.Yes! (details? what details? shit, I need to figure out what details.)
No fear - no limits! - Scary thought, right?:)Yes. Thank you for the insight.
Risk of | Fear of | Mitigated by |
... being unemployable in the future as a result of ageism and stagnated skills. | ... suffering caused by not providing adequately for myself and others. | ... oversaving, flexibility in spending, a financially secure SO, and if needed, a strong capacity to hustle. I may never be highly compensated again, but I bet I could earn some income if needed in the first 10 years of RE. |
... regretting the decision to give up on a pre-defined "career" and all the possibilities afforded by it. | ... missing out. | ... reminding myself of the opportunity cost of the career trap. |
... not developing a meaningful and satisfying FIRE lifestyle. | ... looking back on my life with bitter regret, potentially morphing into an evil super-villain in a last-ditch effort to find meaning during my golden years (like Dick Cheney). | ... Buddhism. |
... being judged by others for forging my own path (haters, jealous friends, concerned family, etc). | ... social isolation. | ... keeping a low profile and living an authentically awesome life that people I care about want to share with me. |
... my lifestyle may get more expensive. It's been shocking to see the rise in housing costs in my area over the last 6 years. | ... suffering or instability in RE. I'd hate to be one of those pensioners being evicted from their apartment before it gets turned into an AirBnB condo to skirt rent control laws. | ... oversaving and a financially secure SO. |
... the cost of healthcare spiraling out of control. | ... suffering or early demise. | ... oversaving, flexibility in spending to free up funds, willingness to get routine care as a medical tourist in Juarez, and maybe getting healthcare through my SO's employer. |
... maybe, just maybe, I want to go crazy and spend on toys. One more year so I can get a Tesla? Life-size medieval siege engine? In-ground swimming pool? | ... missing out. | ... slapping myself on the side of the head. That's not me. I really don't care about that kind of stuff, even if many of my acquaintances and colleagues do. |
... squandering an opportunity. This career put me on the social mobility ladder. I shouldn’t just give it up. | ... the guilt associated with "making it" and using my privilege for personal gain. Screw you, I got mine! | ... charitable giving, oversaving so I'm in a position to help those closest to me if needed, giving my time and skills, and remembering I'm under no particular obligation here. I am free to live my life on my own terms and have nothing to feel guilty about as long as I keep to my values. |
... issues in my relationship with my partner brought on by this life change. | ... ending up alone or in relationship shaped by unresolved resentments (i.e. like my parents. shudder.) | ... lots of open and honest communication. All green lights so far. Protect both our assets if we decide to get married. Pre-plan the divorce while we still like each other. Know that worst case, if we separated, I might need to move somewhere less expensive, and that's ok. |
... failing to fill my time in FIRE. | ... boredom / depression. | ... facepunching self. My project list would fill a dozen lifetimes. |
... my relationship (and therefore half of my income) ending. | ... not being able to provide for myself. | ... being generous with footrubs and being prepared to move back to a LCOL/MCOL if it came down to it. |
... having a health problem and never making it out of the cubicle. | ... missing out on what could be the best chapter of my life. | ... quitting that damn job you dolt! |
I think you should budget the full cost of health insurance without subsidies.Caveat: I still need to figure out exactly what constitutes income for purposes of calculating subsidies in my state. I can rely on COBRA for the first few months at least while I get the details sorted.