The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: meyla on March 11, 2015, 07:50:17 AM
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It seems like traveling is a very FIRE-y thing to do. There are tons of posts about traveling tips on this forum. Maybe it's just that people who like to travel feel like early retirement is the only way to accomplish that goal, and so the vast majority of people who visit financial independence websites have that goal in mind. I get the impression that practically everyone who posts on this forum has the end goal of traveling many times per year, both inside and outside their country of residence. It sounds miserable to me.
I hate traveling. I wouldn't drive to the grocery store if I didn't have to. I have recently been "promoted" (AKA my boss quit) at work and now I have to travel about one week per month. I've been to Costa Rica and Toronto so far this year, with another trip to Toronto coming up next week. It makes me physically sick to think about it. I hate riding in the car to the airport. I hate going through security. I hate being on a cramped plane with a ton of people. I hate living out of a suitcase in a hotel, and eating out for every meal (often alone). I miss my fiance and my cats and my video games. I spend multiple nights of the week crying when I'm away from home. I feel like it's punishment.
So after all that whining and complaining, is it only me that feels that way? Am I the only one who wants to retire early so that I can STOP traveling and stay at home all the time? Has anyone considered quitting a job that's otherwise okay because of the travel requirements?
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What you are really saying, is that you are an introvert. Welcome to the club.
When I started a job that involved travel I was really looking forward to seeing new places but this has faded quickly.
This week I am not traveling and working from home which almost feels like time off in comparison to the crazy travel
I have done since this year started.
The beauty of FIRE is that nobody tells you what to do and where to be. For those who like to travel, great, go out and
see the world. If you prefer to be at home, enjoying your free time that's also a good choice. That is the real freedom.
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I love to see new places, but I hate travelling to get to those places.
Solution: go on longer trips, so that the airport/plane crap is kept to a minimum.
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There's a huge difference between work travel and leisure travel. I am an introvert and I find relaxed, slow paced travel helps me see my life in perspective. It gives me new ideas, forces me to evaluate things and see them fresh. I sometimes travel alone, sometimes with my DH, and usually really enjoy myself. And then when I come home, I'm always thankful to be home :)
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Travel isn't really our thing either. We only travel to visit friends and family, eat and drink in another city, or to all-inclusives in Mexico. The long-term, meandering travel of many mustachians sounds terribly boring to me. I don't mind traveling for work though, it's a mental vacation; solitary time in transit, meals covered by the company, etc.
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I go stir crazy at home.
Your work travel and my idea of leisure slow travel are worlds apart.
I too hate some of the things you mentioned. With slow travel those flights are far and few between, you end up renting apartments, cooking local ingredients, doing things at your pace, often times away from the super touristy areas.
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I would hate traveling alone for work, too. I've only traveled for work once, and I convinced my sister to go with me, so we did fun Chicago things in between my work stuff.
Also, what you're describing isn't so much the travel but the transit. The transit part of travel really is the worst--I love the Viking River Cruise slogan "spend less time getting there, and more time being there." This is why I prefer planes over car trips, and fewer layovers (I'd rather spend an extra $100 or $200 to NOT have a layover), and why I like to cook at my destination when possible. My DH and I are good travel partners, which helps tremendously. Some people find that they don't enjoy traveling with their spouse, and find a buddy to go with instead.
What traveling looks like for me: spend as little time as possible getting to destination, rent an apartment for at least a full week (longer is better), go grocery shopping, and settle in like a local. Walk around a lot, look at architecture, maybe see one major 'sight' per day, spend time reading at cafes or parks, visit libraries or book stores (a tote bag from a book store makes a great souvenir, usually very cheap), take rest breaks as needed, cook simple meals 'at home,' eat out once per day, and most importantly, talk to people. My DH is much better at starting random conversations with locals than I am, so I let him take the lead on this, and it's always very interesting.
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Pretty much everyone hates business travel. I travel for work 10 times a year, and yeah, it gets to be a grind. It's not fun to travel across the country, live out of my suitcase while lugging around my heavy laptop to do work, and not feel like I have any time to myself.
However, going on a trip on my own? Heaven. I get to explore places at my own pace, immerse myself in the local culture, and see things I otherwise would have never gotten to see. If I want to wake up and go for a hike one day, I do it. If I want to spend all day eating my way through a city, trying many different foods? I do it. I even somewhat enjoy flying-maybe because to me it symbolizes a new adventure, but going to the airport I always get that excited feeling in my stomach, not a feeling of dread. Sure airport security sucks, but it's a necessary part of the process to get to my next adventure.
However, not everyone has to love travelling! If you feel happiest at home, then so be it! I think that part of the point (the whole point?) of FIRE is to do whatever makes you happy. If you hate traveling, save enough money to quit that job that requires you to travel, and spend the rest of your days living a quiet peaceful existence. It's your life!
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I've never had to travel for work, but I can imagine it would get old and dreadful very quickly. What you have described does not sound like 'travel' to me, it sounds like work. I also do not like to leave the house to go shopping/etc. I try to do all my shopping and errands in one trip, and like another poster said, when it's not going to be crowded with people. And no one loves airports and layovers and cramped airplanes.
But I still LOVE traveling. Exploring new places and cultures and meeting new people who live in completely different worlds is amazing. If you are traveling on your own schedule, and not for work, you can do whatever you like to do. And if you like to stay home instead, that's cool too. :)
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No. I hate flying, I don't like being in large groups of people, and I'm under no illusion that I'll actually find out more about a place by being there for a few days. I could see traveling to see some truly beautiful natural places, but it's not worth money to me currently.
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I'm interested in travel, but in a different type of travel than is normally discussed here. I love to be outdoors and camp, and am interested in getting into backpacking (but am holding off; going to try to go on a trip or two this summer with borrowed equipment vs. making the big investment in all the stuff I would need to get into it). I have also considered buying a small place or just land a few hours North of where I live, on a non-motorized lake or a river, with direct access to national forest land. Most of the places I currently want to spend time are within a few hours of my home, and the rest of the places are within the U.S.
Right now, that type of vacation is exactly what i need to unwind and get out of the work mentality. I expect I will always enjoy that but my desires may expand or change a bit when I am retired and don't have the stress of working (and at least once monthly work travel) driving my decision making.
So, do I like to travel in the sense of long international vacations? No, it doesn't appeal to me NOW. The planning, the financial aspect, the time away from my dog, time away from my home that I love, silly things like that just stress me out. But I do like my own type of travel. And I expect my attitude about travel will change quite a bit once I'm retired or semi-retired. Or not...which is fine.
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My wife finds vacations fun. I find them stressful. For me it is the hassle and effort of the getting to and fro.
The business travel you speak of would be pretty dreadful. The being alone in a strange hotel for a week at a time would get old. Consider other positive activities you can do in the evenings --- take cooking classes, take guitar lessons, take a dance class. Even when I'm on vacation I hate just sitting around so I always find fun stuff to do. I have played on pickup soccer leagues, hiked, attended Rotary meetings etc.
I would suggest joining a Rotary club might be fun for you. Some of them have breakfast meetings and they are always welcoming to members from afar. You can also see what the local churches have to offer in the evenings.
Every place you visit will have something going on each evening of the week. People love to meet new people for out of town and are generally very receptive and positive.
http://www.torontoevents.com/index.php?com=detail&eID=20118
Universities often have interesting presentations in the evening as well.
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I'm with you. I went through a lot of trouble to make my life be the kind I want to live, and now I mostly want to stay around and live it. I dislike the actual act of traveling; air ports, getting to the air ports and am not particularly excited to see stuff. I do travel fairly often to visit friends and family though, but I don't enjoy traveling or tourism for its own sake though.
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Nope, I get you.
I've traveled extensively.
There's something to be said for being happy where you are; this seems more Mustachian than always wanting to go somewhere else.
Why aren't you there NOW if you want to be there? Oh, because it's not the "going there" you want... it's the "not being where you are. Ever."
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I don't love travel, either. I hate driving. Flying has gotten to be such a pain in the butt. I'm almost surprised if the flight gets in on time.
I have bed bug paranoia, and don't love staying in hotels. Most of my work travel is going to conferences, which I find stressful and exhausting. I'd really rather stay home.
Vacation travel is a little less awful, but I still hate getting there. We may do a little travel when we retire. There are places I'd like to see, but I feel almost pressured to enjoy myself, which makes it less enjoyable, if that makes any sense. I'm also not a budget travel person. If I'm on vacation, I want some reasonable level of comfort. I don't need five star hotels, but I do need a decent, clean hotel. Camping is my idea of hell.
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Nope, I get you.
I've traveled extensively.
There's something to be said for being happy where you are; this seems more Mustachian than always wanting to go somewhere else.
Why aren't you there NOW if you want to be there? Oh, because it's not the "going there" you want... it's the "not being where you are. Ever."
I enjoy where I am too. I just like discovering new places as well.
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I don't really like it either. or, at least, it's not relaxing or rejuvenating for me, anyway. I think I would enjoy it more if I didn't work full time. I am still figuring out how to decompress from work - what feels like a break for me. hiking trips are good... I've found that not having to plan meals is relaxing (with hiking, that's all done before you leave), and I need to get exercise every day. managing a constant barrage of decisions and people in a new city is not fun or relaxing for me, though.
I love my home and being at home, too, and miss it when I'm away. I hear a lot about ways to travel cheaply but it always feels like a huge money-sucker to me, too, and not worth it.
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I personally have some travel anxieties and traveling is so much better now that I did a bit of therapy and got a xanax prescription. My personal experience is that if I'm anxious, the xanax just makes me feel normal and doesn't knock me out. If I end up in a totally relaxed situation while it is still in my system, I will feel very groggy. If I was traveling for work, there would be enough mild anxiety to feel fine on the drug. I'd suggest that if you hate work travel this much, to consider chatting w/ your doc and maybe a therapist about it. It sounds like there could be some anxiety rooted in there that you don't even realize. You might also find some coping skills that make it better like over-preparing. Personally, on planes, I prefer an aisle seat fairly close to the bathroom. I feel less claustrophobic that way. I don't like having to make a long walk on a plan to "go." I also hate having a middle or window seat and feeling trapped. I still don't enjoy the transit portion of travel but I don't dread it as much as I used to and I overall find travel rather enjoyable now. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to travel but if it is something you want to change, consider my tips.
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In the past, I've had to travel so much that it ceased being fun. (Military member, and then military wife.) Travel to visit family has always involved a lot of long-haul driving or flying, too. I live in a place I really enjoy, and have set up my house to be a pleasant refuge--a place of comfort and creativity. So why always be spending a fortune, being tired and stressed, and risking bedbugs and Montezuma's revenge to be hauling all over the world? I mean, for what? At this point in my life, for the most part, I'd rather stay home. I don't have any pets at the moment, but plan to adopt an animal or two…and that would lessen my incentive to travel even more.
Having said that, there are a few places I like and plan to visit from time to time…both stateside and in western Europe…mostly for researching the series of novels I am writing. But that is authentic travel for a good reason, totally controlled by myself. I'm thinking that if the OP is having such a hard time with the mandatory work travel, maybe a change of jobs is in order. Life is too short to be that unhappy.
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Thanks for the feedback, everyone! I feel a little better after hearing that a lot of you don't like business travel. The people that I work with who also travel often seem to think that it's the bee's knees... so I felt like I was the strange one in the group. Everyone was baffled that I didn't want to go to Costa Rica in January. "But it's going to be 85 degrees and sunny! It's such a beautiful country!" Well yeah, but I don't speak Spanish and I'll be working 10 hours each day... not really much time to appreciate it. I do also get terrible anxiety about the work itself, too, which probably has a lot to do with the disdain for the whole situation. My boss says he thinks I do a fantastic job, but I feel nauseous and faint-y when I have to go and give a talk. I'm younger than everyone in the industry and I feel like I haven't earned my place/respect.
My fiance and I planned a week long trip to NYC a few years ago. It was my first time on a plane, my first time being that far from home (Atlanta), and my first time going on a vacation that wasn't beach or mountains related. The first 2-3 days were good, but after that I wasn't happy and wanted to go home. I loved seeing the Lion King on broadway and I'll remember that forever, but I think it's a once-per-decade thing for me. It was too expensive and too much time away from home. Maybe minor adjustments to scheduling/planning/locations would make me like it more? I just don't think it's a hobby that's right for me.
I did see that there is a Lion Safari near the hotel where I'll be staying next week. I don't know if the cats will be out but if they are, I might try to plan time to stop by.
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It seems like traveling is a very FIRE-y thing to do. There are tons of posts about traveling tips on this forum. Maybe it's just that people who like to travel feel like early retirement is the only way to accomplish that goal, and so the vast majority of people who visit financial independence websites have that goal in mind. I get the impression that practically everyone who posts on this forum has the end goal of traveling many times per year, both inside and outside their country of residence. It sounds miserable to me.
I hate traveling. I wouldn't drive to the grocery store if I didn't have to. I have recently been "promoted" (AKA my boss quit) at work and now I have to travel about one week per month. I've been to Costa Rica and Toronto so far this year, with another trip to Toronto coming up next week. It makes me physically sick to think about it. I hate riding in the car to the airport. I hate going through security. I hate being on a cramped plane with a ton of people. I hate living out of a suitcase in a hotel, and eating out for every meal (often alone). I miss my fiance and my cats and my video games. I spend multiple nights of the week crying when I'm away from home. I feel like it's punishment.
So after all that whining and complaining, is it only me that feels that way? Am I the only one who wants to retire early so that I can STOP traveling and stay at home all the time? Has anyone considered quitting a job that's otherwise okay because of the travel requirements?
You sound like an introvert. I am on the cusp of both intro and extrovert. I like experiencing new things (via travel), but the act of traveling is not particularly fun for me. Before I had kids, vacation travel was the only way I "got away" from work stress, so I would visibly relax as soon as the plane took off.
After kids though, it's not relaxing, it's incredibly stressful. I still travel - every 2 years to visit family on the opposite coast, and 1-2x a year with the family. But we try to keep it close and simple. We are doing more and more staycations.
Our next trip is a 4-5 hour drive away. 2 nights camping and 2 nights at a resort with a pool. So the camping is relaxing to me because it's quiet. Lots of stars at night, not much to do. We enjoy the outdoors, go for hikes. EVERYTHING takes a long time. Have to start a fire before you can boil the water so that you can make coffee and oatmeal for breakfast. Then you have to boil more water to wash the dishes. No dishwasher, nothing easy, but it's relaxing. (Of course, it's a lot of work to pack up the car and the kids, and we have to CONSTANTLY keep an eye on the toddler.)
I totally get where you are coming from.
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There's a huge difference between work travel and leisure travel. I am an introvert and I find relaxed, slow paced travel helps me see my life in perspective. It gives me new ideas, forces me to evaluate things and see them fresh. I sometimes travel alone, sometimes with my DH, and usually really enjoy myself. And then when I come home, I'm always thankful to be home :)
Exactly. I'm an introvert, too, but I LOVE to travel.
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I don't get the whole traveling thing either. Why do people want to "see" things? Like... what is there to see really?
The only reason I travel is to be with people I like.
I've been in the bay area for 4 years and people are always shocked when I tell them I haven't seen the golden gate bridge and have been to SF twice... why the shock? It's a bridge. There are lots of bridges.
People always say "you have to see BLAH". No, I really don't. Go see the old buildings in Europe! Really? Old buildings? What's the so entertaining about that? "Oh, you just HAVE to see how white the sand is at blah beach" Right... the whiteness is truly mesmerizing.
I guess I'm more against being a tourist than traveling. I also hate getting there. In the end, I'm going to want to be around friends, drinking and having fun... the where isn't important at all.
EDIT: I also don't understand why Americans leave America to travel. I'm not American, but every possible type of climate and geology is here. Beaches, mountains, cold, hot, oceans, desert, canyons, lakes, etc. So... even IF you wanted to "see" things, why go to a crappy country to see it? I really don't get it at all.
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There's a huge difference between work travel and leisure travel. I am an introvert and I find relaxed, slow paced travel helps me see my life in perspective. It gives me new ideas, forces me to evaluate things and see them fresh. I sometimes travel alone, sometimes with my DH, and usually really enjoy myself. And then when I come home, I'm always thankful to be home :)
+1
The people I've worked who really enjoyed business travel had dreadful home lives. If your home life is a good one, I think it's natural to resent having to spend time away from that.
Enforced travel is something I've never enjoyed, but a leisurely trip with my sweetie? Sign me up!
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I don't get the whole traveling thing either. Why do people want to "see" things? Like... what is there to see really?
The only reason I travel is to be with people I like.
I've been in the bay area for 4 years and people are always shocked when I tell them I haven't seen the golden gate bridge and have been to SF twice... why the shock? It's a bridge. There are lots of bridges.
People always say "you have to see BLAH". No, I really don't. Go see the old buildings in Europe! Really? Old buildings? What's the so entertaining about that? "Oh, you just HAVE to see how white the sand is at blah beach" Right... the whiteness is truly mesmerizing.
I guess I'm more against being a tourist than traveling. I also hate getting there. In the end, I'm going to want to be around friends, drinking and having fun... the where isn't important at all.
EDIT: I also don't understand why Americans leave America to travel. I'm not American, but every possible type of climate and geology is here. Beaches, mountains, cold, hot, oceans, desert, canyons, lakes, etc. So... even IF you wanted to "see" things, why go to a crappy country to see it? I really don't get it at all.
While I enjoy travelling to the U.S. and agree that there is a lot to see there, there is also a LOT outside of the United States - it is not the be-all and end-all of the whole world :)
Standing on the Colosseum floor and walking through the Roman Forum, seeing what a civilization from two thousand years ago left behind and what is still standing (the civilization that was the basis for many of our systems today); seeing in person paintings and sculptures, because pictures absolutely do not do them justice (a Bernini statue is so amazing in person, and my pictures of it just dont't - can't - do it justice); standing at the top of the Eiffel tower and looking out over Paris has a magic that can't really be explained; walking through Venice (and the blessed absence of vehicles of any kind) and reflecting on what a major economic power it was, and how quickly that changed - and realizing that economies and economic powers may be fleeting... there's more, but those are some goodies :)
I too don't like work travel. People who think work travel must be great generally aren't ones who do it. I do know some people that enjoy it but they tend to be single and unattached and don't particularly enjoy their homes (there are always exceptions of course, but this is an anecdotal observance).
OP, I'm sorry to hear that it is so hard that it often leaves you in tears! I agree with previous posts that you should find something or anything to do so that it isn't that distressing for you (fill your evenings if you like to be around people, or find ways to make your solitary time more restful and relaxing), or perhaps you do have to look at reducing your travel by either setting boundaries with your employer or looking for different employment. I agree with whoever said life is too short to be that miserable!
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EDIT: I also don't understand why Americans leave America to travel. I'm not American, but every possible type of climate and geology is here. Beaches, mountains, cold, hot, oceans, desert, canyons, lakes, etc. So... even IF you wanted to "see" things, why go to a crappy country to see it? I really don't get it at all.
Uhh, maybe because we want to see and experience different life and cultures because of genuine interest and curiosity? It's not about climate or geology for me (I have literally never cared about geology and climate is low on my priorities... I live in freakin' Minnesota).
It's fine that you don't "get it," but I find this comment particularly hilarious.
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Many like to travel to other countries to learn new things, expand horizons, and use that knowledge going forward. I also don't enjoy random travel to 'see the sights' or say 'I've been to Paris!'.
Best trips have been visiting places that interest me to learn new things...but it's exhausting for me and travel is something I generally don't enjoy.
Some of us are happy being homebodies, and the slow-travel the world plans that many have are definitely not for everyone. That's the beauty of FI - choose what works for you :)
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EDIT: I also don't understand why Americans leave America to travel. I'm not American, but every possible type of climate and geology is here. Beaches, mountains, cold, hot, oceans, desert, canyons, lakes, etc. So... even IF you wanted to "see" things, why go to a crappy country to see it? I really don't get it at all.
My husband agrees with this. I asked him about going to Europe. He told me that when we had seen everything in this country USA, that there was to see, then we could talk about going somewhere else. So probably not going to happen for me. But that's okay, this year it will be southern Utah. Next year.. who knows , maybe Alaska
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Reminds me of an old friend in upstate New York whose wife went to Europe with friends from time to time. But Jerry refused, and had never been out of the U.S. When people asked why he didn't want to go to Europe--especially Italy, where the grandparents were from, he always said, "Aw, those places are no good. That's why they all came over here."
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What traveling looks like for me: spend as little time as possible getting to destination, rent an apartment for at least a full week (longer is better), go grocery shopping, and settle in like a local. Walk around a lot, look at architecture, maybe see one major 'sight' per day, spend time reading at cafes or parks, visit libraries or book stores (a tote bag from a book store makes a great souvenir, usually very cheap), take rest breaks as needed, cook simple meals 'at home,' eat out once per day, and most importantly, talk to people. My DH is much better at starting random conversations with locals than I am, so I let him take the lead on this, and it's always very interesting.
This just seems incredibly silly to me. I go grocery shopping, walk around, look at stuff, cook, and eat out at home. I talk to friends in the area. When I'm not at work I like to play video games at home or go to quiet places and read or listen to music, again, near home. There's no need to be away for these experiences. I have no interest in seeing "sights", nor in speaking with strangers for any period of time. When I travel I want to stay in a nice place, eat and drink at local restaurants, and generally relax with my wife.
Ironically, I don't mind driving or flying places. The experiences driving and flying are always different, great for people-watching, and allow me to be alone in a crowd, a feeling I personally love. But I don't need to leave my surrounding area to get this feeling. Maybe I'm dead inside?
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I don't get the whole traveling thing either. Why do people want to "see" things? Like... what is there to see really?
The only reason I travel is to be with people I like.
I've been in the bay area for 4 years and people are always shocked when I tell them I haven't seen the golden gate bridge and have been to SF twice... why the shock? It's a bridge. There are lots of bridges.
People always say "you have to see BLAH". No, I really don't. Go see the old buildings in Europe! Really? Old buildings? What's the so entertaining about that? "Oh, you just HAVE to see how white the sand is at blah beach" Right... the whiteness is truly mesmerizing.
I guess I'm more against being a tourist than traveling. I also hate getting there. In the end, I'm going to want to be around friends, drinking and having fun... the where isn't important at all.
EDIT: I also don't understand why Americans leave America to travel. I'm not American, but every possible type of climate and geology is here. Beaches, mountains, cold, hot, oceans, desert, canyons, lakes, etc. So... even IF you wanted to "see" things, why go to a crappy country to see it? I really don't get it at all.
It's a good thing some people have curiosity and exploratory drive - imagine of everyone in science/etc was perfectly content with what they already knew!
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EDIT: I also don't understand why Americans leave America to travel. I'm not American, but every possible type of climate and geology is here. Beaches, mountains, cold, hot, oceans, desert, canyons, lakes, etc. So... even IF you wanted to "see" things, why go to a crappy country to see it? I really don't get it at all.
Uhh, maybe because we want to see and experience different life and cultures because of genuine interest and curiosity? It's not about climate or geology for me (I have literally never cared about geology and climate is low on my priorities... I live in freakin' Minnesota).
It's fine that you don't "get it," but I find this comment particularly hilarious.
Not to mention architecture, history…
And to become a better thinker. It is literally impossible to obtain the kind of broader world perspective that travel with a spirit of openness toward other peoples and cultures can give you, without actually traveling.
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If you have family ties to a place, even if it goes back a couple of generations, it can feel "homey" to spend some time in that area. England is a family place for us because we still have living relatives there to stay with and visit. But Ireland surprised us--we have an Irish heritage, but no relatives living there who we could go and visit. But my mother, brothers, and myself have all found the same thing when we go there--we feel very much at home, and like to plunk ourselves down and stay for a while. YMMV.
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I'm not a big fan of travelling and am also right on the cusp between introvert and extravert. Last summer, we took our first road trip with the kids -- a whole 6 hours away from home. I was discombobulated the whole time, verging on depressed some days. I really didn't enjoy it at all, although I did find some joy in watching the kids enjoy themselves :-/ The whole thing was pretty stressful for me.
I have been to my parents vacation home in a tropical locale many times since my teen years, and have also taken my kids there. I really enjoy going there, but probably because it feels like a second home.
I like the IDEA of international travel and seeing some of the wonderful sights like SK Joyous mentioned up thread, but I don't think its in the cards for me.
Edit: typo
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I'm a full-on extrovert, and I like to travel to see PEOPLE, but not to see places. And actually, I would prefer if all my people were in the same place so that I wouldn't have to travel very far ;)
I see my lack of travel-bug-joy as a good thing, because it will save me lots of money!
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I'm a full-on extrovert, and I like to travel to see PEOPLE, but not to see places. And actually, I would prefer if all my people were in the same place so that I wouldn't have to travel very far ;)
I see my lack of travel-bug-joy as a good thing, because it will save me lots of money!
Lol -- that's for sure true! Though I think in my case, the fact that I love to travel has kind of had the effect that I have not wanted to accumulate a big house, fancy car, tons of stuff, etc. because I would prefer to spend my dispensable income on going places.
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Does anyone else dislike traveling, not because of introversion, but because they enjoy having a home base to return to? Maybe it's the emotional safety of a routine, the routine within a physical space. Also, changes in what's acceptable manners/behavior drives me nuts. Silly things, like how people around the world great one another, or hold conversations. That bit is entirely my fault, but that instinctual negative reaction colors a lot of my traveling.
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I'm a full-on extrovert, and I like to travel to see PEOPLE, but not to see places. And actually, I would prefer if all my people were in the same place so that I wouldn't have to travel very far ;)
I see my lack of travel-bug-joy as a good thing, because it will save me lots of money!
Lol -- that's for sure true! Though I think in my case, the fact that I love to travel has kind of had the effect that I have not wanted to accumulate a big house, fancy car, tons of stuff, etc. because I would prefer to spend my dispensable income on going places.
This is absolutely true for me too Kris. As much as I'm trying to declutter now, I still have a lot less stuff to begin with than the majority, since I'd rather spend on travel experiences. Most of the stuff I have now has only been acquired in the last few years since I stopped traveling as much, and it's all stored in a small house, half of which is rented out. Going to cut back on the travel for a couple years though, just to save more, FIRE faster, sell everything, then go explore the world.
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I'm a total minimalist, but not because I want to travel. It's because I want my home to be my sanctuary. I want it to feel like a fancy hotel room, in a way.
I'm a huuuuuuge fan of staycations, and will soon be implementing themed staycations! We will go to "Japan" (sushi, karaoke bar, and a Japanese film) and "Hawaii" (Hawaiian shirts, pineapple, spam, sushi, and sauna, possibly a show like Hawaii five-0) ... You get the idea. All of the fun, none of the travel!
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I like to travel once I get there but getting there can be quite stressful. Due to work schedules and limited time off, there does not tend to be a lot of room for error with reservations and potential travel delays. I can't wait until I have the time to build in an appropriate buffer. I also remind myself that there are not many travel problems that can't be solved with a credit card and give myself permission to use it if need be to get out of a jam.
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I travel for work and have travelled the world and been an expat. I'd rather stay home.
I find airports tolerable but not in any way exciting except for watching families and friends reunite at the arrivals lounge.
I only travel for fun if it is because I know the people I love would love it and that makes me happy.
Same with languages. I've learned several. I'd rather just speak English and have no communication barrier.
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I'm a total minimalist, but not because I want to travel. It's because I want my home to be my sanctuary. I want it to feel like a fancy hotel room, in a way.
I'm a huuuuuuge fan of staycations, and will soon be implementing themed staycations! We will go to "Japan" (sushi, karaoke bar, and a Japanese film) and "Hawaii" (Hawaiian shirts, pineapple, spam, sushi, and sauna, possibly a show like Hawaii five-0) ... You get the idea. All of the fun, none of the travel!
Now that sounds fun :)
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I'm a total minimalist, but not because I want to travel. It's because I want my home to be my sanctuary. I want it to feel like a fancy hotel room, in a way.
I'm a huuuuuuge fan of staycations, and will soon be implementing themed staycations! We will go to "Japan" (sushi, karaoke bar, and a Japanese film) and "Hawaii" (Hawaiian shirts, pineapple, spam, sushi, and sauna, possibly a show like Hawaii five-0) ... You get the idea. All of the fun, none of the travel!
Now that sounds fun :)
More staycation tips:
-suuuuper clean your house, or stay at a local bed and breakfast
-turn off your phone while you're on "vacation"
-only go places in your city that you have never been before
-mentally spend the money you would've spent on travel! Woohoo! (Or save, whatever...)
When we lived in Montreal, we went to "FUNtreal". Play around with your home city's name so that you can label your exotic new locale ;)
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Same with languages. I've learned several. I'd rather just speak English and have no communication barrier.
Point of clarification: you still have a communication barrier when you are talking to a non-native speaker. It's just that they are the ones assuming the weight of it.
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Traveling for work is not the same as traveling for fun. Traveling for work tends to be rushed and hectic, and you are either alone in a boring hotel room, or forced to socialize with colleagues. Even traveling the way most Americans travel (1-2 week vacation) is extremely draining. With travel time, jet lag, and running around trying to cram in all your sightseeing, coming home seems like the vacation.
But most people (myself included) who want to be FI in order to travel have a completely different type of travel in mind. My partner and I love renting apartments in new cities and settling in for a month or three to explore at a leisurely pace. It's like trying on someone else's life for awhile. We are also fairly introverted, but love finding new street food, wandering around new cities, seeing museums and taking hikes and going to new beaches. We also spend a fair amount of time reading books in parks and watching movies in our apartment and doing the same stuff we do at home. We basically just transport our life with us where ever we go, as well as our routines. Because we are minimalists, this is easy. But all the new experiences are like a drug for me. And my memories from these different places are much sharper than when I find myself in one place for a long time, probably because all of my senses are engaged.
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Flying for work can be quite nice, just ignore TSA-block them out, then sit back, relax and enjoy getting paid to watch a move and drink free booze while collecting the extra per diem. but I get ymmv on this.
Being some where for work can really suck. Work 10+hr every day, high stress to get results before your return booking else your trip gets extended. My experience says it would be very hard to plain any-sort of after work fun or socialization, often I dont know when I will leave the job site that day. Good chance I did not have a proper lunch so I am hungry, and I want to go run but then I have 'home' work to look at back in the hotel.
Personal travel can be a mixed bag for me. I have had fun going out and exploring the world. But I also recently paid money to cancel a personal trip so I could stay home and live my normal live as I thought that would be more enjoyable. The trip was a gift I did not ask for and I thought was going to be mostly chilling at an aunts house, as the travel date neared it became clear her plains were for some 12 different hotels over three weeks and zero down time this was non-negotiable. that sounded to much like work travel with living out of a suit case and eating out three meals per day. so I opted out last minute, was the right call.
Language barrier: this can get old. fucking hell I want to be able to just read the restaurant menu! and putting the effort out to be extra polite to locals so as not to be the asshole American who does not speak the local language. Then there have been times I have not got to do things or go places because I could not read the street parking signs and getting the rental car towed would be a very bad thing. or not knowing how late public transit runs on sundays. Problem solving around these things can be done but I dont want to need to think while on holiday, I solve those same problems while on work travel. Most of my experiences here are with very rushed time frames and having zero time to learn local language.
I did not intend this to sound so negative, but often people think travel = fun and that is not always the case at least for some types of travel for some people.
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I mostly just hate traveling by airplane or traveling a long distance in the car. Planes are cramped and security lines are long and I get really bored having to spend hours getting somewhere. Cars are pretty much the same deal (minus the security line.) Lately, I've been able to cut down the amount of travel time for most vacations to less than two hours of driving, although we do have a vacation to Florida coming up soon that will require a flight. Ugh. It's cheaper and more enjoyable to just go somewhere local.
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I don't get the whole traveling thing either. Why do people want to "see" things? Like... what is there to see really?
The only reason I travel is to be with people I like.
I've been in the bay area for 4 years and people are always shocked when I tell them I haven't seen the golden gate bridge and have been to SF twice... why the shock? It's a bridge. There are lots of bridges.
People always say "you have to see BLAH". No, I really don't. Go see the old buildings in Europe! Really? Old buildings? What's the so entertaining about that? "Oh, you just HAVE to see how white the sand is at blah beach" Right... the whiteness is truly mesmerizing.
I guess I'm more against being a tourist than traveling. I also hate getting there. In the end, I'm going to want to be around friends, drinking and having fun... the where isn't important at all.
EDIT: I also don't understand why Americans leave America to travel. I'm not American, but every possible type of climate and geology is here. Beaches, mountains, cold, hot, oceans, desert, canyons, lakes, etc. So... even IF you wanted to "see" things, why go to a crappy country to see it? I really don't get it at all.
The best way I can explain why I like traveling is: would you rather watch people have sex or experience it yourself? I don't mean that rudely, but I would rather admire/see/experience places for myself than have them described to me. It makes human history come alive in my eyes. It's one thing to see a picture of a painting, it's another to stand in front if it exactly where it's painters stood 500 years earlier and wonder about them, their lives, and the era they lived in. I think travel is the most enjoyable if you have some context or knowledge behind what you're going to see. The Ponto Vecchio in Florence is a nice enough looking bridge, but visiting it was more interesting to me knowing that Hitler refused to have it demolished because he admired it so much, while nearly all the other bridges were blown up. I make it a point to read a variety of books before we leave the country. If you're just following a tour and seeing things just for the sake of seeing things, then yeah there's not really a point.
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Another homebody here. I like my life, my garden, my cats. The idea of living somewhere else for a month or three, having to do all the boring chores of shopping and cooking with the extra difficulty of language or cultural barrier, away from the environment *I* chose, doesn't do much for me. There are places I'd like to experience, and I definitely enjoy hiking/nature types of trips, but I don't plan to do extensive foreign travel.
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Traveling for work can get old fast -- at least it did for me back when I had a job like that (first job after college). I'd fly to various cities around the US and install and customize software at hospitals and train their staff. I'd spend 2 days in a place like Indianapolis, or Memphis, Louisville, then fly home. It was interesting for about 4 months, then I was very sick of it and I moved on to another job.
That said, I love traveling for pleasure. Have been to many countries, and hope to see many more. I don't really relish the actual time in the airplane or the airport -- but I love spending weeks at a time in different places.
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I don't really like it either. or, at least, it's not relaxing or rejuvenating for me, anyway. I think I would enjoy it more if I didn't work full time. I am still figuring out how to decompress from work - what feels like a break for me.
I love my home and being at home, too, and miss it when I'm away. I hear a lot about ways to travel cheaply but it always feels like a huge money-sucker to me, too, and not worth it.
+1 to all of this. I always feel like I need a vacation from my vacation, but unfortunately I only feel comfortable taking off so many days a year (even though my PTO is theoretically unlimited). Some of my favorite vacations are either staycations or vacations where it's basically just me and my husband and I never have to deal with anyone else. One of my favorite trips was our move from Oregon to Alaska. We drove and (mostly) camped, and it was so quiet and pleasant. I can't remember the last time we took a vacation for the purpose of anything other than spending time with family. It's just not a priority for us.
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So after all that whining and complaining, is it only me that feels that way? Am I the only one who wants to retire early so that I can STOP traveling and stay at home all the time? Has anyone considered quitting a job that's otherwise okay because of the travel requirements?
I don't know anyone who wouldn't enjoy some travelling if they were FI. If I didn't have a cat I'd hit the road for a few years when I FI. As is I'll likely be away from home 6 months of each year.
Ultimately if you are happy at home stay home. The beauty of FI is being able to do what "you" want.
-- Vik
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I mainly travel to do things, seeing things is a bonus. I dislike traveling to other cities, prefer the depths of the wilds.
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See username.
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Same with languages. I've learned several. I'd rather just speak English and have no communication barrier.
Point of clarification: you still have a communication barrier when you are talking to a non-native speaker. It's just that they are the ones assuming the weight of it.
Except I've lived in several places where English was the second language. I am talking about no longer wishing to have that barrier. I don't see the point when I can live somewhere and have English as a first language.
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Me! I hate to travel and also find that people look at me like I have two heads when I say that. Not only do I dislike business travel (and specifically avoid jobs that require it) but I also generally dislike personal travel as well. I am a lifelong insomniac (and the child of a lifelong insomniac, so it's genetic), so time changes are murder on me and I end up feeling tired and sleep deprived for the whole trip. Even if I travel in the same time zone, it's difficult for me to sleep in a new environment. I'm not sure if I would enjoy travel if it weren't for that--I suspect I would enjoy it more, but it still wouldn't be something I was crazy about. I am a creature of habit and enjoy having my regular routines and coming home to a familiar home base. I wouldn't say I'm a homebody though--I enjoy going out and doing things and meeting new people, but I live in a major city so I can do these things and still come home to my own bed each night. I think that the point of FIRE is to be able to do what YOU want to do, not to have to conform to the typical ER who likes to travel the world.
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For me it depends. I only like certain types of travel. A couple days of hiking or a week long trip across the country to visit family are enjoyable.
Things I hate about travelling:
-Plane Travel
-Extended Car Travel (I get car sick)
-Boat Travel (I get sea sick)
-Hotel Rooms
-English not being the primary language
-Seeing poverty (I know it exists, I just don't want to see it)
-Eating out
-The cost
-Wasting vacation days
-Being away from family or friends
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Flying for work can be quite nice, just ignore TSA-block them out, then sit back, relax and enjoy getting paid to watch a move and drink free booze while collecting the extra per diem. but I get ymmv on this.
I try to think about these types of things when traveling for work, it helps offset the long days, deadlines, and general anxiety and stress such things travel cause an introvert such as myself. I'm paid hourly and get OT, and when traveling I'm paid for time in transit. So when my flight is delayed a couple hours to replace some failed part on the jet I'll have a beer on the company's tab and get paid OT to drink it. I tend to take red eye flights in hopes of sleeping for most of it and minimizing time away from home, so getting paid to sleep is a win in my book. Try to focus on the upside, right? In all fairness the company gets more work out of me too because it's a crunch the whole time to get as much done as possible and avoid either a longer trip or another trip.
One thing I wonder about so far as travel being a common goal here is that there seem to be a lot of hardcore aggressive environmentalists in this group... Who seem to aspire to travel the world and see foreign countries and all that. Jets burn a lot of fuel and put out a lot of pollution and greenhouse gasses, granted they contribute a fairly small amount to ground level pollution. It just seems quite hypocritical to me. I suspect those same aggressive environmentalist types also buy a decent amount of goods produced overseas. Cargo ships burning bunker fuel put out a tremendous amount of pollution as well both in volume and ppm, but again much of it is not ground level in cities. I wonder how much of the environmentalist spiel is just a hypocritical not in my back yard type of thing and how they reconcile that. FWIW I am not an environmentalist and and I loathe the EPA and other violent controlling groups that initiate force against others, but do try to avoid being wasteful or polluting unnecessarily, preserve nature for future generations, minimize my impact on other through the environment, participate in trash cleanups and other nature preserving volunteer work from time to time, etc.
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But most people (myself included) who want to be FI in order to travel have a completely different type of travel in mind. My partner and I love renting apartments in new cities and settling in for a month or three to explore at a leisurely pace. It's like trying on someone else's life for awhile. We are also fairly introverted, but love finding new street food, wandering around new cities, seeing museums and taking hikes and going to new beaches. We also spend a fair amount of time reading books in parks and watching movies in our apartment and doing the same stuff we do at home. We basically just transport our life with us where ever we go, as well as our routines. Because we are minimalists, this is easy. But all the new experiences are like a drug for me. And my memories from these different places are much sharper than when I find myself in one place for a long time, probably because all of my senses are engaged.
You just described my dream life.
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I hate riding in the car to the airport. I hate going through security. I hate being on a cramped plane with a ton of people.
I literally had this typed out last night and didn't create the thread for whatever reason. How ironic! Then again, I don't travel for work. I get so pissed when I want to go somewhere and I'm being gouged for a plane ticket just because it's within a few days, whereas if I want a deal I have to wait ~21 days before actually going on the trip. Forget it. I don't mind the actual flying part but the apathetic, snobby, rude TSA can shove it. Everything from the bathrooms to the sprawling food courts and cramped seats just makes airports a horrible experience. Missed your connecting flight because your first flight was late? Airline doesn't give a shit, you've just got to wait it out. Flight cancelled entirely? Tough titty, buy your own hotel room or sleep in a corner somewhere and hope you don't get pee'd on. I just always feel like I'm wasting my time driving or on a plane when I'm actually "traveling". And when I get there, it's another waste of time for a day or two as you "settle in" and unpack and move around. So much wasted time!!
I was going to take a huge break from work and travel to a different place in the U.S. twice a month for a week at a time. I took one week and I was DONE. I couldn't of known until I tried it though. And I'm not going to say it was a waste of time, because it wasn't. I visited a city I really wanted to see. But, ultimately, it was a LOT of money on retrospect. The funny thing is I've always liked traveling and going places, but now I realize what I really want.
I really just want a nice, small-ish home that is fairly quiet but still close to society and within 10 minutes from lots of grocery stores and restaurants. That's it. That's all I crave, literally. It's amazing how little we actually need to survive when you don't factor in a silly expense to haul your ass across the earth to a place very similar to your own.
Once you settle in a place that's just right for YOU, I see absolutely no reason to ever leave. The only reason I've wanted to travel lately is because I long to be in another area pretty bad and will eventually move. So yes, I do like traveling, but only when it's to get where I actually need/want to be semi-permanently.
- I don't need to experience new culture. People are people. We eat, shit, sleep, breathe, chat, work, etc...That doesn't change wherever you go. Culture is simply people doing or believing things that usually make no sense or have no meaning to you at all. Sounds like a waste of my time to concentrate on things like that.
- I don't need to try the local cuisine. I can get/prepare literally any cuisine right here where I am now.
- I don't need to see more beautiful things. There are beautiful things where I live. There are beautiful things everywhere!
- I don't need to travel to a different city. American is highly developed and every city is basically the same.
- I don't need to "get away". If I'm already in private quarters, the location isn't going to get me any further away than I already am.
Again, the only reason I see traveling over an hour (leisurely) is if you're moving or considering a move. Moving definitely has a purpose, but I'm finding these days that pointlessly traveling (any travel other than moving) just doesn't.
Also, if you hate traveling for work, then find a new job. There are plenty of people that will take your place only to realize the same thing you already do: forced travel sucks.
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It seems like traveling is a very FIRE-y thing to do. There are tons of posts about traveling tips on this forum. Maybe it's just that people who like to travel feel like early retirement is the only way to accomplish that goal, and so the vast majority of people who visit financial independence websites have that goal in mind. I get the impression that practically everyone who posts on this forum has the end goal of traveling many times per year, both inside and outside their country of residence. It sounds miserable to me....Am I the only one who wants to retire early so that I can STOP traveling and stay at home all the time?
Thank you for this interesting question. Have you read When Travelers Cease to Roam by Vivian Swift? You might enjoy it. I loved how she savored being a traveler in her daily at-home life.
The chance to live, study and work abroad (in English, French and Spanish) were invaluable and I've had marvelous travel experiences in and outside of the USA. However, what has always made a trip good for me was having a personal connection (e.g., visiting my SIL's family in Cuzco, going with my friend back to her hometown of Kyoto, hiking near Fethiye with my friend who had settled there, etc.). Also, some of the most interesting "travelers" I've ever met are host families who opened their homes with warmth and curiosity to people from other places.
My preferred trips now are:
1) Renting a comfortable place on the beach (few hours drive) and invite my family/friends to come and play
2) Go hiking someplace sunny and warm (two-hour flight max) when the PacificNW gets too gloomy
3) Staycation - phone turned off, good books from the library, maybe some friends over for game night
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But most people (myself included) who want to be FI in order to travel have a completely different type of travel in mind. My partner and I love renting apartments in new cities and settling in for a month or three to explore at a leisurely pace. It's like trying on someone else's life for awhile. We are also fairly introverted, but love finding new street food, wandering around new cities, seeing museums and taking hikes and going to new beaches. We also spend a fair amount of time reading books in parks and watching movies in our apartment and doing the same stuff we do at home. We basically just transport our life with us where ever we go, as well as our routines. Because we are minimalists, this is easy. But all the new experiences are like a drug for me. And my memories from these different places are much sharper than when I find myself in one place for a long time, probably because all of my senses are engaged.
You just described my dream life.
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I'm in this 'travel' camp too. We plan to spend 2-3 months per year somewhere else. While we are gone we will rent our house out and probably come out ahead given lower cost of renting in Mexico or wherever. Basically free travel
There are some people I know who have not even left their home provinces. I find that totally weird but to each their own
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But most people (myself included) who want to be FI in order to travel have a completely different type of travel in mind. My partner and I love renting apartments in new cities and settling in for a month or three to explore at a leisurely pace. It's like trying on someone else's life for awhile. We are also fairly introverted, but love finding new street food, wandering around new cities, seeing museums and taking hikes and going to new beaches. We also spend a fair amount of time reading books in parks and watching movies in our apartment and doing the same stuff we do at home. We basically just transport our life with us where ever we go, as well as our routines. Because we are minimalists, this is easy. But all the new experiences are like a drug for me. And my memories from these different places are much sharper than when I find myself in one place for a long time, probably because all of my senses are engaged.
You just described my dream life.
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I'm in this 'travel' camp too. We plan to spend 2-3 months per year somewhere else. While we are gone we will rent our house out and probably come out ahead given lower cost of renting in Mexico or wherever. Basically free travel
There are some people I know who have not even left their home provinces. I find that totally weird but to each their own
This is my dream FIRE lifestyle as well.
I have been to ~40 countries already, but never stayed long enough in most.
I am also an avid motorcyclist. I have a bike that is perfect for motorcycle camping or exploring the USA slowly. Once FIRE happens I look forward to traveling to parts of the USA I have not been to yet.
I absolutely hate flying, airports, long car rides (longer than 8 hours), crowds, security lines, etc.
However its a small hurdle to experience the world. My fondest memories are from all the unique experiences I have been fortunate to have in my travels.
I can also relate to the homebodies who love to do stuff locally.
I can't do either for too long without getting bored and finding myself with an insatiable need for a change in scenery.
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EDIT: I also don't understand why Americans leave America to travel. I'm not American, but every possible type of climate and geology is here. Beaches, mountains, cold, hot, oceans, desert, canyons, lakes, etc. So... even IF you wanted to "see" things, why go to a crappy country to see it? I really don't get it at all.
Uhh, maybe because we want to see and experience different life and cultures because of genuine interest and curiosity? It's not about climate or geology for me (I have literally never cared about geology and climate is low on my priorities... I live in freakin' Minnesota).
It's fine that you don't "get it," but I find this comment particularly hilarious.
Not to mention architecture, history…
And to become a better thinker. It is literally impossible to obtain the kind of broader world perspective that travel with a spirit of openness toward other peoples and cultures can give you, without actually traveling.
Yes, by 'sights' I mean museums, architecture, places of historical interest, etc. I also enjoy these things at home, but when traveling, things are new, and novelty is interesting to me. I'm super excited to go to the Netherlands in a couple months, see the treasures in the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam, admire the canals (a UNESCO world heritage site), walk in the Vondelpark, and likely go back to Anne Frank's House (been there before but it was such a powerful experience, I think we will go back), etc. There aren't any major museums in my town, and it's certainly no UNESCO site. I can travel within my state to see art, architecture, etc. but nothing is as old as the sites in Europe.
It's fine that others don't enjoy these things, and want to stay home (it's certainly going to save you some money!), but there's more to travel than business travel, and somethings things are scary or anxiety-producing, hence culture shock, but result in new ways of thinking.
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Ironically, I don't mind driving or flying places. The experiences driving and flying are always different, great for people-watching, and allow me to be alone in a crowd, a feeling I personally love. But I don't need to leave my surrounding area to get this feeling. Maybe I'm dead inside?
This is me to a tea. I love the transit part of travel, prefer to travel alone, but am not actually all that keen on arriving somewhere. I think better when I am moving from one location to another. I don't care for tourism or work travel. But if I could through-hike the AT or the Continental Divide or if I could have a personal gypsy caravan and tell people's fortunes as I crossed the US and went from country to country, I would love that. My husband would hate it. He hates the transit part of travel and the part of travel that includes "not being at home".
Does anyone else dislike traveling, not because of introversion, but because they enjoy having a home base to return to? Maybe it's the emotional safety of a routine, the routine within a physical space.
This is how my husband feels about travel.
When we retire, we will probably travel much less than we do now, though I hope we will backpack and hike a lot more.
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I like to travel, but I'm not a huge fan of cities! I went to England, and it super stressed me out to stay in London, but I adored Oxford.
When we have more cash, I could see doing the long term travel thing in a small town or village. It'd be quite doable for us because we both get 1.5 months off every summer; however, we've got a dog. If anyone has worked out the long-term travel / dog situation, let me know!
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It's amazing how different everyone's travel preferences are. I love some kinds of travel, hate others.
I spent every summer during college driving around the US, living out of a car. It was glorious. I'm an introvert, and I thrive on all the quiet time that's baked into driving thousands and thousands of miles, but I love a good change of scenery. Unfamiliar trees, geography, climes, architecture, food, accents--all of it. Newness yanks me out of my habitual thoughts and feelings and throws me into new patterns, something I can't seem achieve without changing my scenery.
I'm not terribly interested in seeing major tourist attractions, unless they're convenient. You won't catch me at the Eiffel tower, but you might find me wandering around Old San Juan.
I also hate business travel with a fiery passion. Hate hate hate.
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- I don't need to travel to a different city. American is highly developed and every city is basically the same.
Everybody's different...but...damn, really? No. That's not remotely close to true.
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I am very curious about people who enjoy being "immersed in local culture" when they travel. I have traveled quite a bit, both for work and for pleasure, and I have never experienced this feeling (but would like to).
How long do you have to stay in a place for this to happen? What activities do you do that enhance that experience? Certainly you must be doing something different than going to museums and seeing tourist sites....so what is it?
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It's weird because growing up, I was the only one in my group of friends who traveled twice every year with my parents (to the USA, by car). Today, I'm the only one in the same group of childhood friends who has never been on a plane, who hasn't been to Europe or even, lived in another country for a while.
I feel I was raised into the ''travel is fun'' mentality, but have deprived from traveling for over a decade because I did not have the financial ressources to do it. Traveling is not the first goal I have in mind when I think of early retirement, but it's something I miss doing and that I associate with two resources I'd like to have : extra money (discretionary money once the essentials, loans and savings are taken care of), and extra time. It's something I'd like to add to our current lifestyle, but I don't want to wait until FI/RE.
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I am very curious about people who enjoy being "immersed in local culture" when they travel. I have traveled quite a bit, both for work and for pleasure, and I have never experienced this feeling (but would like to).
How long do you have to stay in a place for this to happen? What activities do you do that enhance that experience? Certainly you must be doing something different than going to museums and seeing tourist sites....so what is it?
The times that come to mind are those where I've met and befriended some local people, spent time in their homes and in their lives and got to know them. Some times it takes days, other times I've been in a place for a lot longer and have not had the opportunity. Language barrier makes it harder, but that's probably more so for me, being shy and afraid to make mistakes (working on that). It's also a lot easier if you know people who know people already.
Went to Bosnia with a boyfriend at the time who had friends and family there. Many of them didn't speak English and I don't know Bosnian, but I still got to live in their homes and live their lives for about 6 weeks, to experience cultural differences. Eat where and what they eat, drink where they drink, socialize, party, go to their cottage for the weekend, etc.
The only example I have that compares the difference is in the Cook Islands. I went there twice. Once on my way to Australia, once on the way back. On the way there I did all the tourist stuff, including a Maori show. When I stopped there again on the way back I met a few locals and hung out with them. Visited their homes, let them show me their island from their perspective. One night we ended up going to the same 'show', but watched from backstage, instead of with the tourists.
So to answer the questions:
How long do you have to stay in a place for this to happen?
The longer the better, but if you are lucky, only days. It's also probably dependent on where you are. How touristy the location is and how friendly the locals are.
What activities do you do that enhance that experience?
Meet the locals.
Certainly you must be doing something different than going to museums and seeing tourist sites....so what is it?
Go to where the locals go, not where the tourists go.
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well your description of travel hates would ring true with many people who like to travel. I dont travel so i can sit on an airplane or so i can eat out every day i travel so i can see the place i'm traveling to. Which is why FIRE is appealing. rather than a weekend trip or a week long trip i can be a month long trip or multiple month long trip and you can settle into a place and cook your own meals etc. we still cook our own meals even on extended weekends.
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I've met some (usually much older) people who've never been more than 20 miles from the place they were born and they were interesting, engaged, lively, mustachian people. Anyone who says travel is needed for whatever personal growth reason needs to be sure they are not unfairly harshing on those who haven't had the inclination or opportunity to travel.
I've travelled internationally pretty extensively for pleasure and work, and lived abroad, but my desire to travel for pleasure disappeared sometime during the 6 years I spent travelling regularly for work. I understand all the issues OP has with business travel: the stress of travelling at busy times to restricted timetables, the impersonal hotel rooms, the lack of home cooking and choice of when, where and what you eat, the long hard hours of working (the employer paying for it wants value for money) limited time, energy and options for useful occupation between working obligations, constantly being with people you haven't chosen to spend your time with and not having time with those you have chosen to spend time with, the disruption to any regular engagements at home (Sports team? forget it. Weekly evening classes? forget it. Weekly music rehersals? forget it. Regular Friday night with friends? Miss 1 or 2 every month because you're on the flight home.) In short, it's a miserable existence and you come out of the other end wondering where your life and friends went.
OP: all I can say is. I hope to God that you are being paid at least what your former boss was paid, and hopefully more (after all, what your boss was paid was not enough to keep him/her in the job, so why should it keep you in it). If not, time to put your negotiating skills to work. And start looking for the exit to a job that suits you better.
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Travelling in the states/Canada doesn't really do it for me. It's really much of the same thing over and over. There aren't many cultural differences. Unfortunately, many americans don't travel outside of the U.S. so probably get the impression that the only reason to travel is find slightly better weather and a few bits of sightseeing. Take a trip to the other side of the world and experience how 90% of the world live will always make you appreciate what you have, and you never know you might like the place.
I get the impression that you just dislike business travel, and your destinations are not really that desirable as far as I'm concerned. Airport lounges help me cope with airports. Travelling on your own is never fun.
For me travelling can be a lot of work and hassle and the trip might not even be fun, but sometimes you just have to get away the same boring scenery.
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EDIT: I also don't understand why Americans leave America to travel. I'm not American, but every possible type of climate and geology is here. Beaches, mountains, cold, hot, oceans, desert, canyons, lakes, etc. So... even IF you wanted to "see" things, why go to a crappy country to see it? I really don't get it at all.
Uhh, maybe because we want to see and experience different life and cultures because of genuine interest and curiosity? It's not about climate or geology for me (I have literally never cared about geology and climate is low on my priorities... I live in freakin' Minnesota).
It's fine that you don't "get it," but I find this comment particularly hilarious.
Not to mention architecture, history…
And to become a better thinker. It is literally impossible to obtain the kind of broader world perspective that travel with a spirit of openness toward other peoples and cultures can give you, without actually traveling.
Meh, I don't think so. Especially if you consider all of America. Just go to NYC and you can get exposure to every major culture on the planet. Also... there are so many cultural differences in the US! Natives, New Orleans/Cajun, the South, new England, south west, alaska, hawaii etc. the cultures are different. There is so much here already!
But anyway, I don't even want to do that. I've been to lot places and I always think "wow, if i wasn't getting paid to go here I wouldn't go, this places sucks compared to Canada/USA" except usually for climate. My "EDIT" was there to say that even if you wanted to get the broader world perspective, you can get a lot of it here.
I'm probably as liberal as they come (socially at least) so I get that cultures are different. One of the main reasons I think traveling sucks is because.... and this will cause some controversy... every other place (besides canada/usa) is way more *intolerant* of others or other cultures. It's repulsive. I get that the new world is all immigrants so we're more tolerant, but jeez the culture everywhere else sucks (in aggregate, sure there are some things that are neat).
So... i guess i don't want to experience other cultures like rubybeth or learn about their architecture or whatever. Europe (except perhaps britian) is totally anti-immigrant xenophobes by-in-large (just look at their laws). I wouldn't go to the mid-east if I was a woman. Africa is a shitshow of death and turmoil and intolerance. The indian sub-contient is shitty for women and outsiders too. China is a polluted intolerant mess... not to mention if you travel there and have a pic of the dali lama on your laptop you can get jailed. Japan, anti-immigrant. South-east asia... when they're not having military coups (e.g. thailand) that strand your ass there they are mass slaughtering their civilians a la Burma/indonesia. Russia... I don't think I need to say anything. South/Latin America there's like a 50/50 chance you're going to get kidnapped for ransom (obviously exaggerating). Not to mention that all of these places, save Europe, have shitty infrastructure so have fun with the hepatitis or other diseases you'll get, they're also totally corrupt. I feel like people posting about traveling abroad are always getting the insulated rich westerner experience.
I guess Britain and Australia are OK. Canada and USA are the best... why go experience the crappy cultures above? Just to prove they are crap? I guess if that floats your boat.
There is a reason the net immigration to USA and Canada is so high... everyone wants to get out of the crappy places. If you like hiking and the outdoors traveling I totally get it - but you can get all the diverse terrain/climate you want in USA!
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Dividendman,
Your post just cracked me up. I traveled w/ a group of friends to a gorgeous resort on a Southeast Asian island. They kept wanting to spend their time downtown at local places. There, we all got food poisoning, there was little running water, there were holes in the ground in shacks to use the bathroom, no TP, no water to wash up after. Poor sanitation because the streets stunk. Fairly high crime. Not reliable medical care/police. I could not understand for the life of me why they wanted to leave the resort. I could see for one day time shopping trip or to "site see." But after that, why? We don't go vacationing in the worst part of the inner cities in the US just to "see it" do we? We were paying to be on a gorgeous resort with 5 star service. Why leave that? (I'm not even touching on the ethical issues of having 5 star resorts with abject poverty right outside.)
I do enjoy traveling but I don't like going to places where the standard of living is abysmal.
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LOL, great thread. I think traveling is fine but not all the time. I constantly hear stories of people who travel (for work especially) at least 50% of the time and how they keep insisting it's not all it's made out to be; yet, I am still enamored by the thought of it. I studied abroad in Italy for 3 months and loved it. But I can see how traveling long-term would tire me out like crazy. I'm introverted as well, so high levels of activity and engagement tire me out. Sometimes I just want to be at home and veg out. But sometimes I want to "travel" on my own terms and usually by myself. I do find a lot more peace and solace when I "travel" to the beach early morning and get a line wet (fishing). I can see how constantly using public transportation and hopping from place to place would tire especially an introverted person out. I mean, for me "travel" is fine in the context of vacation because I have it all planned out and am looking forward to seeing stuff but it always in a well-defined period of time. I have trouble contemplating those "globe trotters" and people who live a lifestyle of travel and living-abroad. Even when I was living in Italy, I didn't always go out every day and explore the town. But it was OK because I was sort of "trapped" in the city I was in and would try to travel on the weekends but it was always doable and for my own leisure it was OK. I'm probably over-thinking but I wonder about things like money, logistics of where to live, and probably tons of other stuff I can't think of...
I think naturally I'm an adventurous person but my lazy, pessimistic and introverted side, 'prevents' me from actually getting out there to do stuff. Anyway, I think if travel were to define my life (especially for work) I'd probably not be very fond of it either.
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EDIT: I also don't understand why Americans leave America to travel. I'm not American, but every possible type of climate and geology is here. Beaches, mountains, cold, hot, oceans, desert, canyons, lakes, etc. So... even IF you wanted to "see" things, why go to a crappy country to see it? I really don't get it at all.
Uhh, maybe because we want to see and experience different life and cultures because of genuine interest and curiosity? It's not about climate or geology for me (I have literally never cared about geology and climate is low on my priorities... I live in freakin' Minnesota).
It's fine that you don't "get it," but I find this comment particularly hilarious.
Not to mention architecture, history…
And to become a better thinker. It is literally impossible to obtain the kind of broader world perspective that travel with a spirit of openness toward other peoples and cultures can give you, without actually traveling.
Meh, I don't think so. Especially if you consider all of America. Just go to NYC and you can get exposure to every major culture on the planet. Also... there are so many cultural differences in the US! Natives, New Orleans/Cajun, the South, new England, south west, alaska, hawaii etc. the cultures are different. There is so much here already!
But anyway, I don't even want to do that. I've been to lot places and I always think "wow, if i wasn't getting paid to go here I wouldn't go, this places sucks compared to Canada/USA" except usually for climate. My "EDIT" was there to say that even if you wanted to get the broader world perspective, you can get a lot of it here.
I'm probably as liberal as they come (socially at least) so I get that cultures are different. One of the main reasons I think traveling sucks is because.... and this will cause some controversy... every other place (besides canada/usa) is way more *intolerant* of others or other cultures. It's repulsive. I get that the new world is all immigrants so we're more tolerant, but jeez the culture everywhere else sucks (in aggregate, sure there are some things that are neat).
So... i guess i don't want to experience other cultures like rubybeth or learn about their architecture or whatever. Europe (except perhaps britian) is totally anti-immigrant xenophobes by-in-large (just look at their laws). I wouldn't go to the mid-east if I was a woman. Africa is a shitshow of death and turmoil and intolerance. The indian sub-contient is shitty for women and outsiders too. China is a polluted intolerant mess... not to mention if you travel there and have a pic of the dali lama on your laptop you can get jailed. Japan, anti-immigrant. South-east asia... when they're not having military coups (e.g. thailand) that strand your ass there they are mass slaughtering their civilians a la Burma/indonesia. Russia... I don't think I need to say anything. South/Latin America there's like a 50/50 chance you're going to get kidnapped for ransom (obviously exaggerating). Not to mention that all of these places, save Europe, have shitty infrastructure so have fun with the hepatitis or other diseases you'll get, they're also totally corrupt. I feel like people posting about traveling abroad are always getting the insulated rich westerner experience.
I guess Britain and Australia are OK. Canada and USA are the best... why go experience the crappy cultures above? Just to prove they are crap? I guess if that floats your boat.
There is a reason the net immigration to USA and Canada is so high... everyone wants to get out of the crappy places. If you like hiking and the outdoors traveling I totally get it - but you can get all the diverse terrain/climate you want in USA!
I think your interpretation of all other cultures as "intolerant" is precisely an illustration of what I'm talking about.
That said, I'm not saying everyone needs to "want" to learn to think in a more complex fashion about the world and their place in it. But travel (outside of your country of origin, no matter how diverse it may be) with a true spirit of openness broadens that way of thinking in a way that nothing else can.
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I am very curious about people who enjoy being "immersed in local culture" when they travel. I have traveled quite a bit, both for work and for pleasure, and I have never experienced this feeling (but would like to).
How long do you have to stay in a place for this to happen? What activities do you do that enhance that experience? Certainly you must be doing something different than going to museums and seeing tourist sites....so what is it?
Staying for at least a month helps, but it's more than that. Part of it is getting into a routine. I've studied and worked abroad a few times (I was a Peace Corps Volunteer), and having somewhere to go regularly and working with/befriending locals provided a fast track to immersion. But frankly, immersion in another culture is frequently uncomfortable, because culture is basically just a group of social norms, and so being in someone else's culture usually means you have no idea what you're supposed to be doing.
When my partner and I travel, we try to find a middle ground that is interesting but still comfortable for us. We like to volunteer places, and have had extremely unique experiences and met awesome people because of it. We are fond of urban hiking, which is just walking through cities, just to see what we see, without a real destination in mind. This often takes us through places no tourist would ever go, but we've found the best parks/street food/cafes etc. that way. We like to sit in plazas and just watch all the people around us. We like to shop for food where the locals shop. We plan very little in order to be open to whatever comes our way. We still see the tourist sites that interest us, but the trip isn't structured around checking those off the list.
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But most people (myself included) who want to be FI in order to travel have a completely different type of travel in mind. My partner and I love renting apartments in new cities and settling in for a month or three to explore at a leisurely pace. It's like trying on someone else's life for awhile. We are also fairly introverted, but love finding new street food, wandering around new cities, seeing museums and taking hikes and going to new beaches. We also spend a fair amount of time reading books in parks and watching movies in our apartment and doing the same stuff we do at home. We basically just transport our life with us where ever we go, as well as our routines. Because we are minimalists, this is easy. But all the new experiences are like a drug for me. And my memories from these different places are much sharper than when I find myself in one place for a long time, probably because all of my senses are engaged.
You just described my dream life.
This. This is my ideal as well.
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I am very curious about people who enjoy being "immersed in local culture" when they travel. I have traveled quite a bit, both for work and for pleasure, and I have never experienced this feeling (but would like to).
How long do you have to stay in a place for this to happen? What activities do you do that enhance that experience? Certainly you must be doing something different than going to museums and seeing tourist sites....so what is it?
Staying for at least a month helps, but it's more than that. Part of it is getting into a routine. I've studied and worked abroad a few times (I was a Peace Corps Volunteer), and having somewhere to go regularly and working with/befriending locals provided a fast track to immersion. But frankly, immersion in another culture is frequently uncomfortable, because culture is basically just a group of social norms, and so being in someone else's culture usually means you have no idea what you're supposed to be doing.
yes! this is part of the reason why i actually like traveling to other countries for work, because you have some folks there to kind of show you the ropes and act as a buffer.
in my work travels to brazil i have made a couple of truly excellent friends who i truly love, and who have had me over for dinner, introduced me to their families and friends, gotten up in the middle of the night to take me to carnival, brought me to their family beach house in a tiny, gorgeous beach town. in germany, i hit it off with a customer who took me to stay with her family and go to the expo in hanover. in england, my just-for-the-summer boss took me home to meet his family and i ended up hitting it off with his little daughter who believed in fairies.
even in non-work travels, it's easy to meet people if you just are willing to strike up a conversation and be friendly and laugh at your own mistakes.
highly recommend the book "vagabonding" by rolf potts for more info about this kind of traveling. don't get me wrong, i like to see the touristy stuff, too. i mean, you have to see some art in paris! but you also need to just hang out in a cafe and drink wine and watch life going on around you. mostly i just like hanging out in another world for a while, and realizing that it's not actually another world, even if you don't know what you are doing.
it's very much akin to the voluntary discomfort that MMM encourages people to take on in order to (1) stretch our badass muscles and (2) not get so hedonically adapted to the delights of our day-to-day lives. when i went to costa rica for a month, i LOVED it, but at the end i was super happy to come home to my nice hot shower and my soft comfy bed.
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But most people (myself included) who want to be FI in order to travel have a completely different type of travel in mind. My partner and I love renting apartments in new cities and settling in for a month or three to explore at a leisurely pace. It's like trying on someone else's life for awhile. We are also fairly introverted, but love finding new street food, wandering around new cities, seeing museums and taking hikes and going to new beaches. We also spend a fair amount of time reading books in parks and watching movies in our apartment and doing the same stuff we do at home. We basically just transport our life with us where ever we go, as well as our routines. Because we are minimalists, this is easy. But all the new experiences are like a drug for me. And my memories from these different places are much sharper than when I find myself in one place for a long time, probably because all of my senses are engaged.
This, this a 1000000000 times this!
One of these years, I'm going to loop around Europe this way. Spring in Berlin, Summer in Scandinavia, Fall in France and Winter in Croatia.
I dream of this often.
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Seth Godin writes a good bit about traveling and how this is a recent phenomenon and how people can and should learn to be happy in their own environment.
I travel occasionally, but I would not base my life off of it.
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I like to travel, but I'm not a huge fan of cities! I went to England, and it super stressed me out to stay in London, but I adored Oxford.
We skipped London (except for landing at the airport) and went to the Cotswolds where we stayed in villages. We walked from village to village and had our luggage taken to the next B&B while we were walking. We stayed a few days in a couple of villages that we wanted to explore further. Looking forward to doing something similar in Vermont. I dislike crowds and love to walk so walking vacations are perfect for me.
I really loved the staycation ideas.
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I am very curious about people who enjoy being "immersed in local culture" when they travel...How long do you have to stay in a place for this to happen? What activities do you do that enhance that experience? Certainly you must be doing something different than going to museums and seeing tourist sites....so what is it?
Staying for at least a month helps, but it's more than that. Part of it is getting into a routine...When my partner and I travel, we try to find a middle ground that is interesting but still comfortable for us. We like to volunteer places, and have had extremely unique experiences and met awesome people because of it. We are fond of urban hiking, which is just walking through cities, just to see what we see, without a real destination in mind...We like to sit in plazas and just watch all the people around us. We like to shop for food where the locals shop. We plan very little in order to be open to whatever comes our way. We still see the tourist sites that interest us, but the trip isn't structured around checking those off the list.
- Stay w/ an Airbnb host - very helpful for getting connected
- Go to the same (non-touristy) cafe for your tea/coffee - be friendly, ask questions
- Volunteer (Casa de los angeles in San Miguel de Allende = http://casadelosangeles.org/recent-news/)
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This thread has been very enlightening to me. I had never realized that I disliked travel. All these posts have put words to my nebulous sense of discontentment when I have travelled. Thanks everyone!
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When we travel, nine times out of ten, we are going to visit people we love. We have lucked out in that some of those people live in awesome places (San Diego and Scottsdale, for example). Or we'll meet people we love somewhere, like renting a beach house together for a week, and we both fly in from different cities.
So far, the joy of connection outweighs the hassle of travel prep/travel/travel decompress, but it's getting to where it's almost even. I am really quite content at home. I have a nice view, a cat who loves me, and snacks I like in the kitchen. I have HUGE bedbug paranoia after encountering ONE STINKING BUG in a VRBO condo in Williamsburg in 2012, and honestly, I think I might never recover. I used to love hotels, and now I'll do just about anything not to have to stay in one. :(
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But most people (myself included) who want to be FI in order to travel have a completely different type of travel in mind. My partner and I love renting apartments in new cities and settling in for a month or three to explore at a leisurely pace. It's like trying on someone else's life for awhile. We are also fairly introverted, but love finding new street food, wandering around new cities, seeing museums and taking hikes and going to new beaches. We also spend a fair amount of time reading books in parks and watching movies in our apartment and doing the same stuff we do at home. We basically just transport our life with us where ever we go, as well as our routines. Because we are minimalists, this is easy. But all the new experiences are like a drug for me. And my memories from these different places are much sharper than when I find myself in one place for a long time, probably because all of my senses are engaged.
This, this a 1000000000 times this!
One of these years, I'm going to loop around Europe this way. Spring in Berlin, Summer in Scandinavia, Fall in France and Winter in Croatia.
I dream of this often.
This also. I hate the travel part of travel so I generally go to one area and stay there. Right now I travel like this in the US several months each year. I go alone with my dog (introvertish myself), stay in one general area (like the Southwest or PNW) for a month or 2 at a time - rent a vacation house or camp. Then do a lot of outdoorsy things nearby mosy days like hike, mountain bike, climb, etc... as well as see "the sights" and become somewhat engaged in whatever community I'm near (do lots of Meetups and such as the mood strikes me).
It's slow paced and flexible without all the PITA of short term travel that requires a lot of logistics, airtime, and expense. I pretty much just drive from home to Point A, set up a "homebase/basecamp" of some sort, stay for a month or so, ride my bike most places and stay within a 100 miles or so of my base. Once I'm dog-free I plan to do this overseas. Staying in an area for a long periods time rather than travelling around constantly.
Once you're pet free and want to slowtravel, look into trustedhousesitters.com. You can stay for free all over the world for the obligation of watching the houseowners pets!!! #MoustacheForSure
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I think your interpretation of all other cultures as "intolerant" is precisely an illustration of what I'm talking about.
That said, I'm not saying everyone needs to "want" to learn to think in a more complex fashion about the world and their place in it. But travel (outside of your country of origin, no matter how diverse it may be) with a true spirit of openness broadens that way of thinking in a way that nothing else can.
I said way more intolerant than the USA and Canada in aggregate. If that hasn't been your experience, I think it's funny because then you haven't really traveled these other places or have taken a good view of the cultures and traditions of those places as a whole. Start by just reading the laws.
Simple proof of the greater intolerance of other places: If one were to wear a bikini at noon in a public place, burn a picture of the leader of the country, and burn the religious text of the majority religion, what would happen?
- In the USA/Canada, 99% of the time you'd get weird looks and some people yelling at you maybe, 1% (probably less) of the time someone might physically harm you
- In the rest of the world 100% of the time you'd get killed by mobs or jailed and then killed by the government (in most places)
That's more intolerance. That's a fact. I'm not making this up because I haven't traveled and haven't had my thinking "broadened". (I actually have extensively traveled). If you think I made up the above, try it out and let me know how it goes.
Also saying it broadens your thinking "like nothing else can" is just one of those statements people throw out there that is meaningless really.
e.g.
- If you experience X it will broaden your thinking like nothing else can
- If you read Z book it will broaden your thinking like nothing else can
- If you meditate properly it will broaden your thinking like nothing else can
- If blah blah it will broaden your thinking like nothing else can
Impossible to prove or disprove, but since you're making the claim, some proof that it broadens your thinking "like nothing else can" would be nice.
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Many others have articulated so much better than I can why I feel a heightened sense of being alive while living in a different culture. I love home. But like another poster said, for some of us immersion in a place unlike home is like a (positive) drug. I learn so very much about myself, as well as that place, and grow in what are for me very meaningful ways. Getting there? Not so fun. But once there, stay awhile....
"Certainly, travel is more than the seeing of sights; it is a change that goes on, deep and permanent, in the ideas of living." — Miriam Beard
"I met a lot of people in Europe. I even encountered myself."
— James Baldwin
"The whole object of travel is not to set foot on foreign land; it is at last to set foot on one’s own country as a foreign land." — G. K. Chesterton
"Once in a while it really hits people that they don’t have to experience the world in the way they have been told to."
— Alan Keightley
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime."
— Mark Twain
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I think your interpretation of all other cultures as "intolerant" is precisely an illustration of what I'm talking about.
That said, I'm not saying everyone needs to "want" to learn to think in a more complex fashion about the world and their place in it. But travel (outside of your country of origin, no matter how diverse it may be) with a true spirit of openness broadens that way of thinking in a way that nothing else can.
I said way more intolerant than the USA and Canada in aggregate. If that hasn't been your experience, I think it's funny because then you haven't really traveled these other places or have taken a good view of the cultures and traditions of those places as a whole. Start by just reading the laws.
Simple proof of the greater intolerance of other places: If one were to wear a bikini at noon in a public place, burn a picture of the leader of the country, and burn the religious text of the majority religion, what would happen?
- In the USA/Canada, 99% of the time you'd get weird looks and some people yelling at you maybe, 1% (probably less) of the time someone might physically harm you
- In the rest of the world 100% of the time you'd get killed by mobs or jailed and then killed by the government (in most places)
That's more intolerance. That's a fact. I'm not making this up because I haven't traveled and haven't had my thinking "broadened". (I actually have extensively traveled). If you think I made up the above, try it out and let me know how it goes.
Also saying it broadens your thinking "like nothing else can" is just one of those statements people throw out there that is meaningless really.
e.g.
- If you experience X it will broaden your thinking like nothing else can
- If you read Z book it will broaden your thinking like nothing else can
- If you meditate properly it will broaden your thinking like nothing else can
- If blah blah it will broaden your thinking like nothing else can
Impossible to prove or disprove, but since you're making the claim, some proof that it broadens your thinking "like nothing else can" would be nice.
You would be pretty safe doing your three "provocative" things in the 27 countries of the EU, in Australia and New Zealand, in a fair bit of the Carribean, and probably quite a few other countries. Mind you, dividendman, I can't guarantee that you wouldn't be laughed at for wearing the bikini.
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I think your interpretation of all other cultures as "intolerant" is precisely an illustration of what I'm talking about.
That said, I'm not saying everyone needs to "want" to learn to think in a more complex fashion about the world and their place in it. But travel (outside of your country of origin, no matter how diverse it may be) with a true spirit of openness broadens that way of thinking in a way that nothing else can.
I said way more intolerant than the USA and Canada in aggregate. If that hasn't been your experience, I think it's funny because then you haven't really traveled these other places or have taken a good view of the cultures and traditions of those places as a whole. Start by just reading the laws.
Simple proof of the greater intolerance of other places: If one were to wear a bikini at noon in a public place, burn a picture of the leader of the country, and burn the religious text of the majority religion, what would happen?
- In the USA/Canada, 99% of the time you'd get weird looks and some people yelling at you maybe, 1% (probably less) of the time someone might physically harm you
- In the rest of the world 100% of the time you'd get killed by mobs or jailed and then killed by the government (in most places)
That's more intolerance. That's a fact. I'm not making this up because I haven't traveled and haven't had my thinking "broadened". (I actually have extensively traveled). If you think I made up the above, try it out and let me know how it goes.
Also saying it broadens your thinking "like nothing else can" is just one of those statements people throw out there that is meaningless really.
e.g.
- If you experience X it will broaden your thinking like nothing else can
- If you read Z book it will broaden your thinking like nothing else can
- If you meditate properly it will broaden your thinking like nothing else can
- If blah blah it will broaden your thinking like nothing else can
Impossible to prove or disprove, but since you're making the claim, some proof that it broadens your thinking "like nothing else can" would be nice.
You would be pretty safe doing your three "provocative" things in the 27 countries of the EU, in Australia and New Zealand, in a fair bit of the Carribean, and probably quite a few other countries. Mind you, dividendman, I can't guarantee that you wouldn't be laughed at for wearing the bikini.
I'd argue that you'd probably be safer in most of those places. But, Dividendman, you offer this as "simple proof" and that it's a "fact" that 100% of the time you would be killed by mobs or the government. Since you present this statistic as 100% fact, then clearly you or someone else you know has done this. So it's a simple enough matter for you to give us the actual names of these people, where they did this and who killed them.
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Many others have articulated so much better than I can why I feel a heightened sense of being alive while living in a different culture. I love home. But like another poster said, for some of us immersion in a place unlike home is like a (positive) drug. I learn so very much about myself, as well as that place, and grow in what are for me very meaningful ways. Getting there? Not so fun. But once there, stay awhile....
"Certainly, travel is more than the seeing of sights; it is a change that goes on, deep and permanent, in the ideas of living." — Miriam Beard
"I met a lot of people in Europe. I even encountered myself."
— James Baldwin
"The whole object of travel is not to set foot on foreign land; it is at last to set foot on one’s own country as a foreign land." — G. K. Chesterton
"Once in a while it really hits people that they don’t have to experience the world in the way they have been told to."
— Alan Keightley
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime."
— Mark Twain
Oh, these are great quotes, I identify with all of them.
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Many others have articulated so much better than I can why I feel a heightened sense of being alive while living in a different culture. I love home. But like another poster said, for some of us immersion in a place unlike home is like a (positive) drug. I learn so very much about myself, as well as that place, and grow in what are for me very meaningful ways. Getting there? Not so fun. But once there, stay awhile....
"Certainly, travel is more than the seeing of sights; it is a change that goes on, deep and permanent, in the ideas of living." — Miriam Beard
"I met a lot of people in Europe. I even encountered myself."
— James Baldwin
"The whole object of travel is not to set foot on foreign land; it is at last to set foot on one’s own country as a foreign land." — G. K. Chesterton
"Once in a while it really hits people that they don’t have to experience the world in the way they have been told to."
— Alan Keightley
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime."
— Mark Twain
Oh, these are great quotes, I identify with all of them.
I'd say the Chesterton quote is perhaps the one that most applies to Dividendman's challenge that I offer "proof" of how travel can widen one's mind like nothing else. Trouble is, one has to be open to the idea of one's own country as a foreign land.
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Many others have articulated so much better than I can why I feel a heightened sense of being alive while living in a different culture. I love home. But like another poster said, for some of us immersion in a place unlike home is like a (positive) drug. I learn so very much about myself, as well as that place, and grow in what are for me very meaningful ways. Getting there? Not so fun. But once there, stay awhile....
"Certainly, travel is more than the seeing of sights; it is a change that goes on, deep and permanent, in the ideas of living." — Miriam Beard
"I met a lot of people in Europe. I even encountered myself."
— James Baldwin
"The whole object of travel is not to set foot on foreign land; it is at last to set foot on one’s own country as a foreign land." — G. K. Chesterton
"Once in a while it really hits people that they don’t have to experience the world in the way they have been told to."
— Alan Keightley
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime."
— Mark Twain
Oh, these are great quotes, I identify with all of them.
I'd say the Chesterton quote is perhaps the one that most applies to Dividendman's challenge that I offer "proof" of how travel can widen one's mind like nothing else. Trouble is, one has to be open to the idea of one's own country as a foreign land.
Y'all shush! This thread is for folks who dislike travel to commiserate, not for travel-lovers to tell us we're destined to be close-minded twits!
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Many others have articulated so much better than I can why I feel a heightened sense of being alive while living in a different culture. I love home. But like another poster said, for some of us immersion in a place unlike home is like a (positive) drug. I learn so very much about myself, as well as that place, and grow in what are for me very meaningful ways. Getting there? Not so fun. But once there, stay awhile....
"Certainly, travel is more than the seeing of sights; it is a change that goes on, deep and permanent, in the ideas of living." — Miriam Beard
"I met a lot of people in Europe. I even encountered myself."
— James Baldwin
"The whole object of travel is not to set foot on foreign land; it is at last to set foot on one’s own country as a foreign land." — G. K. Chesterton
"Once in a while it really hits people that they don’t have to experience the world in the way they have been told to."
— Alan Keightley
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime."
— Mark Twain
Oh, these are great quotes, I identify with all of them.
I'd say the Chesterton quote is perhaps the one that most applies to Dividendman's challenge that I offer "proof" of how travel can widen one's mind like nothing else. Trouble is, one has to be open to the idea of one's own country as a foreign land.
Y'all shush! This thread is for folks who dislike travel to commiserate, not for travel-lovers to tell us we're destined to be close-minded twits!
LOL -- well, look, in the spirit of the thread then, even as a travel lover, I have to say that I don't love everything about it. And rather often, the night before a trip, I think, "Ugh, I'm tired. I don't feel like dealing with packing, the airport, the hassle of finding my way to where I'm staying... I'd rather stay home."
Is that better? Cuz all of that stuff is a pain in the ass. Now, if I could just teleport everywhere...
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Many others have articulated so much better than I can why I feel a heightened sense of being alive while living in a different culture. I love home. But like another poster said, for some of us immersion in a place unlike home is like a (positive) drug. I learn so very much about myself, as well as that place, and grow in what are for me very meaningful ways. Getting there? Not so fun. But once there, stay awhile....
"Certainly, travel is more than the seeing of sights; it is a change that goes on, deep and permanent, in the ideas of living." — Miriam Beard
"I met a lot of people in Europe. I even encountered myself."
— James Baldwin
"The whole object of travel is not to set foot on foreign land; it is at last to set foot on one’s own country as a foreign land." — G. K. Chesterton
"Once in a while it really hits people that they don’t have to experience the world in the way they have been told to."
— Alan Keightley
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime."
— Mark Twain
Oh, these are great quotes, I identify with all of them.
Me too. I find it interesting to hear these perspectives, but completely surrounding myself with people who only stick to resorts or can't see any purpose in travelling outside of North America would be a bit depressing to me. Different strokes for different folks.
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I don't get the whole traveling thing either. Why do people want to "see" things? Like... what is there to see really?
The only reason I travel is to be with people I like.
I've been in the bay area for 4 years and people are always shocked when I tell them I haven't seen the golden gate bridge and have been to SF twice... why the shock? It's a bridge. There are lots of bridges.
People always say "you have to see BLAH". No, I really don't. Go see the old buildings in Europe! Really? Old buildings? What's the so entertaining about that? "Oh, you just HAVE to see how white the sand is at blah beach" Right... the whiteness is truly mesmerizing.
I guess I'm more against being a tourist than traveling. I also hate getting there. In the end, I'm going to want to be around friends, drinking and having fun... the where isn't important at all.
EDIT: I also don't understand why Americans leave America to travel. I'm not American, but every possible type of climate and geology is here. Beaches, mountains, cold, hot, oceans, desert, canyons, lakes, etc. So... even IF you wanted to "see" things, why go to a crappy country to see it? I really don't get it at all.
I don't get the whole not-traveling thing either. Why do people want to not want to see things? Like... what is there to not see really?
The only reason I travel is to be with people I don't know.
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People always say "You don't really need to see BLAH". No, I really do. Go see the old buildings in Europe! Really! Old buildings! Like the Flavian amphitheater that was built by a bunch of people in 70 AD with handtools, and that has probably witnessed the fall of a once-massively strong empire. And Jerusalem, home of three major religions in the world. And cisterns under Hagia Sophia. What's not to "see" about that? And Greece. Oh, you just HAVE to see how white the sand is at Mediterranean coast... the whiteness is truly mesmerizing.
EDIT: I also don't understand why Americans feel they have everything in America. I'm an American, but not every possible type of climate and geology is here. Beaches in Greece, mountains of South America, cold, hot, oceans of Australia, deserts of Africa,, etc. So... even IF you did not want to "see" things, why not go to a different country to see it? I really don't get it at all.
See what I did there? Perspective. Courtesy of travel and concomitant broadening of my mind. If I can turn an entire thought process around to see the other side, imagine what I can do to other problems of the world with that kind of perspective.
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You would be pretty safe doing your three "provocative" things in the 27 countries of the EU, in Australia and New Zealand, in a fair bit of the Carribean, and probably quite a few other countries. Mind you, dividendman, I can't guarantee that you wouldn't be laughed at for wearing the bikini.
I'd argue that you'd probably be safer in most of those places. But, Dividendman, you offer this as "simple proof" and that it's a "fact" that 100% of the time you would be killed by mobs or the government. Since you present this statistic as 100% fact, then clearly you or someone else you know has done this. So it's a simple enough matter for you to give us the actual names of these people, where they did this and who killed them.
Ok.. I first said look at the laws of the country. Actually, in the EU it is illegal in many countries (France, Belgium, Finland, Germany, Italy and probably many others) to desecrate/burn the flag. Just by reading the laws you can see they are more intolerant. I don't understand why you are arguing with the facts here... just look it up.
Yes, obviously I don't have data for the 100% (I do however have the many many cases anyone can google for China, and the EU, etc on leadership/flag desecration, many examples of Europe's racist and xenophobic laws you can google as well, and the mid-east laws on how women aren't really people under the law with the same rights) hence I am asking for trials. Try it out and see!
I think I look good in a bikini!
I don't get the whole not-traveling thing either. Why do people want to not want to see things? Like... what is there to not see really?
The only reason I travel is to be with people I don't know.
...
People always say "You don't really need to see BLAH". No, I really do. Go see the old buildings in Europe! Really! Old buildings! Like the Flavian amphitheater that was built by a bunch of people in 70 AD with handtools, and that has probably witnessed the fall of a once-massively strong empire. And Jerusalem, home of three major religions in the world. And cisterns under Hagia Sophia. What's not to "see" about that? And Greece. Oh, you just HAVE to see how white the sand is at Mediterranean coast... the whiteness is truly mesmerizing.
EDIT: I also don't understand why Americans feel they have everything in America. I'm an American, but not every possible type of climate and geology is here. Beaches in Greece, mountains of South America, cold, hot, oceans of Australia, deserts of Africa,, etc. So... even IF you did not want to "see" things, why not go to a different country to see it? I really don't get it at all.
See what I did there? Perspective. Courtesy of travel and concomitant broadening of my mind. If I can turn an entire thought process around to see the other side, imagine what I can do to other problems of the world with that kind of perspective.
yes, I see what you did. I don't begrudge you having your own opinions on travel. Never did I say that traveling is stupid and all people who travel are stupid. I simply said, having traveled a lot, *I* don't understand it.
And yes, this is a thread where people don't like traveling! Go start a "why traveling is the greatest thing ever and how I'm superior because I travel" thread! :P
The travelers here remind me of the folks who are spendy and in debt: when I say I'm frugal/FIREing they get all defensive about their lifestyle! Haha. Go travel! I'm not stopping you. I just don't see the logic in it and it's not for me due to the reasons I described above.
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You would be pretty safe doing your three "provocative" things in the 27 countries of the EU, in Australia and New Zealand, in a fair bit of the Carribean, and probably quite a few other countries. Mind you, dividendman, I can't guarantee that you wouldn't be laughed at for wearing the bikini.
I'd argue that you'd probably be safer in most of those places. But, Dividendman, you offer this as "simple proof" and that it's a "fact" that 100% of the time you would be killed by mobs or the government. Since you present this statistic as 100% fact, then clearly you or someone else you know has done this. So it's a simple enough matter for you to give us the actual names of these people, where they did this and who killed them.
Ok.. I first said look at the laws of the country. Actually, in the EU it is illegal in many countries (France, Belgium, Finland, Germany, Italy and probably many others) to desecrate/burn the flag. Just by reading the laws you can see they are more intolerant. I don't understand why you are arguing with the facts here... just look it up.
Yes, obviously I don't have data for the 100% (I do however have the many many cases anyone can google for China, and the EU, etc on leadership/flag desecration, many examples of Europe's racist and xenophobic laws you can google as well, and the mid-east laws on how women aren't really people under the law with the same rights) hence I am asking for trials. Try it out and see!
I think I look good in a bikini!
I don't get the whole not-traveling thing either. Why do people want to not want to see things? Like... what is there to not see really?
The only reason I travel is to be with people I don't know.
...
People always say "You don't really need to see BLAH". No, I really do. Go see the old buildings in Europe! Really! Old buildings! Like the Flavian amphitheater that was built by a bunch of people in 70 AD with handtools, and that has probably witnessed the fall of a once-massively strong empire. And Jerusalem, home of three major religions in the world. And cisterns under Hagia Sophia. What's not to "see" about that? And Greece. Oh, you just HAVE to see how white the sand is at Mediterranean coast... the whiteness is truly mesmerizing.
EDIT: I also don't understand why Americans feel they have everything in America. I'm an American, but not every possible type of climate and geology is here. Beaches in Greece, mountains of South America, cold, hot, oceans of Australia, deserts of Africa,, etc. So... even IF you did not want to "see" things, why not go to a different country to see it? I really don't get it at all.
See what I did there? Perspective. Courtesy of travel and concomitant broadening of my mind. If I can turn an entire thought process around to see the other side, imagine what I can do to other problems of the world with that kind of perspective.
yes, I see what you did. I don't begrudge you having your own opinions on travel. Never did I say that traveling is stupid and all people who travel are stupid. I simply said, having traveled a lot, *I* don't understand it.
And yes, this is a thread where people don't like traveling! Go start a "why traveling is the greatest thing ever and how I'm superior because I travel" thread! :P
The travelers here remind me of the folks who are spendy and in debt: when I say I'm frugal/FIREing they get all defensive about their lifestyle! Haha. Go travel! I'm not stopping you. I just don't see the logic in it and it's not for me due to the reasons I described above.
I think the biggest problem people are having with your post is your false and unsubstantiated claims.
Simple proof of the greater intolerance of other places: If one were to wear a bikini at noon in a public place, burn a picture of the leader of the country, and burn the religious text of the majority religion, what would happen?
- In the USA/Canada, 99% of the time you'd get weird looks and some people yelling at you maybe, 1% (probably less) of the time someone might physically harm you
- In the rest of the world 100% of the time you'd get killed by mobs or jailed and then killed by the government (in most places)
That's simply untrue.
Also, I've lived in the USA for over 30 years and not once have I had the urge to burn a picture of the President or set a Bible on fire. Sooooo, if that's what you do when you're traveling, I can't help you.
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many examples of Europe's racist and xenophobic laws you can google
I can't guarantee there are no racist and xenophobic laws in any part of any country in the EU: our laws have evolved in a patchwork over the last one thousand years and keeping them entirely tidy and up to date is difficult. I can guarantee that any racist and xenophobic laws in any country in the EU are contrary to the EU Treaties and to the European Convention on Human Rights, that the European Court of Justice and the European Court of Human Rights will strike down any racist and xenophobic laws and ensure that they are unenforceable and are taken off the statute books as being contrary to the rules of legal certainty as to equality of treatment on grounds of race and nationality.
So if you can find any such laws, you would be doing a favour by referring them to the relevant part of the European Commission. I would suggest http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=2&langId=en&acronym=contact Thank you for your service.
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"Once in a while it really hits people that they don’t have to experience the world in the way they have been told to."
— Alan Keightley
Yeah. It hit me that I don't have to travel all over the place, the way I've been told to, to have a fulfilling life or to experience the world.
I have traveled and will travel some more; it just isn't the big Holy Grail for me that it is for a lot of people. It's definitely not how I want to spend the bulk of my time.
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I have had extensive contact with norther Europeans (Dutch/Germans) and there seems to be a dual system going on with them. On the one hand they are extremely open to visitors of all types, being very hospitable and willing to let most anyone come and visit or (with proper papers) work and live in there countries. On the other hand if you are not ethnically native you will never be considered a true citizen, even being a tall white dude with a German/Dutch last name I could never become properly German or Dutch I would always be firstly an American/Outsider. I have also seen overt racism by otherwise good people verbalized in a professional setting over there in a manner that made it clear it was locally acceptable.
This shits is real: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet) And I have seen photos of foreign counterparts (engineers and company managers) participating in equally revolting displays at official company functions.
Laws vs local custom may differ.
As for saying that one can not learn anything from other cultures, this is ridiculous, one should always remain humble and willing to learn from any source. If someone does not want to travel-awesome, they can do what they please within biking distance of there front door (provided a public library is included :-). If someone wants to live out of a backpack on endless "around the world tickets on Delta" (google it) fuck yeah-go for it. Personally I would be happy only going to english speaking countries or all inclusive resorts, in the near future; but I am to cheap frugal to bother in the short term. Individuals desire to travel is on a spectrum.
Obviously our shit stinks too in the USA, we are far from perfect (Ferguson / SAE @ O.K. State / etc), I will not get into a 'who is more racist' tangent.
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yes, I see what you did. I don't begrudge you having your own opinions on travel. Never did I say that traveling is stupid and all people who travel are stupid. I simply said, having traveled a lot, *I* don't understand it.
And yes, this is a thread where people don't like traveling! Go start a "why traveling is the greatest thing ever and how I'm superior because I travel" thread! :P
The travelers here remind me of the folks who are spendy and in debt: when I say I'm frugal/FIREing they get all defensive about their lifestyle! Haha. Go travel! I'm not stopping you. I just don't see the logic in it and it's not for me due to the reasons I described above.
Last time I checked, it's OK to present a dissenting opinion on a public forum. If you have a problem with that, you really are going to have to move to one of those countries you so dismiss as intolerant, tongue-sticking emoticon notwithstanding.
Meta-proof: dividendman says one doesn't need to travel to broaden his/her mind and asks for proof. All those people who do acknowledge travel as having broadened their minds see where s/he is coming from, but s/he doesn't see other people's point of view. i conclude that travel does not necessarily cause one to have more empathy or broadening one's mind and learning things, but rather people who love travel *correlate* with being high on those things (empathy, broadmindedness etc.). Conversely, those that lack the ability to see another POV or is somewhat close-minded, dismiss travel as not adding any value - I'm not talking about OP here who is genuinely miserable, but people like dividendman who have a dismissive attitude towards travel.
OT, Yes I know, the handle is dividend*man* but sometimes I always choose handles that are not of my gender to maintain neutrality. And because you really want to play this game, dividendman, here you go:
The traveler dismissers here remind me of the folks who are spendy and in debt: when I say I'm frugal/FIREing they get all defensive about their lifestyle! Haha. Go don't travel! I'm not stopping you. I just don't see the logic in it and it's not for me due to the reasons I described above.
See? :D
I might even come up with a fun madlibs version to replace "travel" in dividendman's post with something of one's fancy - like "education".
Seriously, though, I'm not trying to glorify travel (or education, for that matter) or get defensive about my "lifestyle choices" (whatever?), but such a complete and blatantly misinformed disrespect for basically everyone except those that agree with oneself calls for at least a little bit of push back.
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I was not going to travel when I retired because I had got so sick of it during work, but I have now found that I actually do like it. But not for the sake of traveling.
There seem to be an awful lot of people who want to travel so they don't get bored. I really think you are better off learning how to live happily in your own neighourhood before you start to travel. You are likely to travel less, appreciate it more, and do it for conscious reasons.
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yes, I see what you did. I don't begrudge you having your own opinions on travel. Never did I say that traveling is stupid and all people who travel are stupid. I simply said, having traveled a lot, *I* don't understand it.
And yes, this is a thread where people don't like traveling! Go start a "why traveling is the greatest thing ever and how I'm superior because I travel" thread! :P
The travelers here remind me of the folks who are spendy and in debt: when I say I'm frugal/FIREing they get all defensive about their lifestyle! Haha. Go travel! I'm not stopping you. I just don't see the logic in it and it's not for me due to the reasons I described above.
Last time I checked, it's OK to present a dissenting opinion on a public forum. If you have a problem with that, you really are going to have to move to one of those countries you so dismiss as intolerant, tongue-sticking emoticon notwithstanding.
Haha... what?! You can't dismiss the tongue-sticking emoticon!!! That's the laws of the internets :P
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I was not going to travel when I retired because I had got so sick of it during work, but I have now found that I actually do like it. But not for the sake of traveling.
There seem to be an awful lot of people who want to travel so they don't get bored. I really think you are better off learning how to live happily in your own neighourhood before you start to travel. You are likely to travel less, appreciate it more, and do it for conscious reasons.
This is just another thread in that tapestry of sanity you keep weaving. :)
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It's a good thing some people have curiosity and exploratory drive - imagine of everyone in science/etc was perfectly content with what they already knew!
A world where everyone was content? Sounds like a world without war, violence, assaults, destruction of others or the natural environment...sign me up!
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It's a good thing some people have curiosity and exploratory drive - imagine of everyone in science/etc was perfectly content with what they already knew!
A world where everyone was content? Sounds like a world without war, violence, assaults, destruction of others or the natural environment...sign me up!
This reminds me of:
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world because they'd never expect it." - Jack Handey
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I am definitely a homebody usually, and I find being at home very relaxing. But it can not compare to the relaxation I get when traveling! I'm sure that'll change when we have kids, but for now, on the weekends when we're at home I feel like I need to accomplish things (errands, yard work, home renovations) whereas on vacation there isn't really anything I need to do. I'm always happy to come home at the end, but I still enjoy the travel. We don't do it much now because it isn't our financial priority (trying to pay off student loans), but I look forward to doing it more in the future. Not constantly, but 2-3 times a year for 2-4 weeks at a time would be nice! While I like the idea of going to another country for months on end, I don't know if I could really be away from home for that long, which is why I think 2-4 weeks is more realistic.
I want to travel more internationally (I've been to England and Costa Rica in my life), I am not against travel within the US! And for now that aligns better with our finances, so last year we went to the MT Hood national forest. We rented a condo so we didn't have to eat out (we ate out a few times but not every meal, that would drive me nuts!). This year we are going to South Carolina, and then potentially doing a road trip to see some national parks in the southwest. In the next few years I'd like to get to Glacier National Park and the Boundary Waters. We like hiking for our vacations, but have also found that not over planning helps a lot. When we were in Mt Hood last year, we did a lot of hiking, but still took a break day to just walk around the condo and relax, and not set foot in a car. I think that really showed us both how important it is to actually take a deep breath and relax while on vacation.
One thing I'm thinking while I write this - I imagine early retirement being a lot like constantly being on vacation! The reason a staycation doesn't appeal to me right now is because of all the things we want to do to our house, and so I'd feel rushed. If I weren't working, I think I would get a lot of the vacation benefits without leaving my house. But I still have a desire to see the world, it just wouldn't be constant travel. That doesn't really appeal to me. I love being at home, and my early retirement dream includes a purchasing some land and a little house that is the picture of relaxation to me (a family home I grew up visiting).