Am I out of line? (Relationship and money)

[FIRE47]

I need someone here to tell me if I am out of line or being reasonable as I am trying very hard to bite my tongue right now.

Background:

I have been in a relationship for going on 3 years now - and we were planning on buying a house together shortly (possibly as soon as 3 months depending on certain factors). I am the more mustachian one in the relationship however my partner is also generally very good (more like a freedom 55 than a true mustachian). We do not currently live together (this is the key fact which leads me to believe perhaps this whole thing is me being unreasonable). We are very open with our finances and everything else and and I thought we were very much on the same page until today where my predicament began.

About 6 months ago my partner sold their car as they simply did not like it (this was a mistake in hind sight as it was nearly paid off and very much a MMM type car). However they then went without a car for 6 months with no car as work was within walking distance and one was rented or borrowed whenever needed which was absolutely commendable. This recently became no longer reasonable due to travel requirements and work so another vehicle needed to be purchased.

Suddenly today a vehicle was purchased in what was expected to take 2-3 weeks to decide and going against almost everything we had talked about. The car purchased was over the amount that had been talked about (about twice what I felt was reasonable and about 4-5 times what a reliable decent vehicle by this forums standards should cost) in addition to being over her own initial set amount. The reasons given were that it had to have everything (moonroof, heated this and that etc) which upsets me more just hearing that. The vehicle was financed over 5 years :(.

I have said very little up until now as the decision has been made and the vehicle purchased at this point not to mention I don't want to seem overly controlling. But am pretty upset as I am driving around in a very reasonable (shitty by outside this forum standards) vehicle and have saved around 3 times as much in the time that we have been discussing our future together despite having to pay rent and groceries (they live at home)- incomes very similar. The timeline for the house is what makes it all the more upsetting.

[netskyblue]

The way I look at it, you're not married, and so you don't get any say in what your partner spends on a car.  Or anything else, really. 

It IS your decision whether or not you want to marry this person.  Or buy a house with them.

(No disrespect meant if you're a same-sex couple somewhere that you CAN'T marry.)

[Villanelle]

If your finances are separate, it seems like generally none of your business.  Why would you get any say or have any right to be upset over what she does with her money?

Does this affect her ability to afford whatever house price range you had been looking at?  Had you talked about each coming up with a specific amount for a downpayment, which she will no longer be able to do?

As a side note, I generally think that for anyone to buy a home with a non-spouse is a bad idea.  Given that you are having doubts about her financial outlook, that seems even more true. 

[FIRE47]

Yea logically I was thinking what you guys have both said. Which is why I have said nothing and not acted on being upset about it.

[GizmoTX]

It appears that you believe your resources are or will be pooled. Your partner clearly does not.

I personally believe that you don't pool unless you are married or have entered into a legally binding partnership agreement. Even then you need clear definitions of mutual goals & how you both plan to get there. Otherwise, separate finances, & only one of you should own the house unless you have a written agreement on how you will handle jointly owned assets should you separate.

[Emg03063]

Agreed.  Unless this impacts your partner's ability to meet their financial commitments to the relationship, it's really nunya, but since your partner has been open about their (her?) finances, and you were thinking that they were going in a different direction, I don't think it would be out of line to express the fact that you were surprised by the decision, given previous discussion.  If it impacts their ability to contribute to the life you were planning together at the level to which they had committed (implicitly or explicitly), that's a whole nother conversation.

[Zikoris]

I think you need to have a good talk about mutual goals, desired retirement ages, and desired lifestyles.

Also, I would NEVER buy a house with someone I hadn't lived with yet! It's so worth paying rent for an additional 6-12 months while you figure out if you can stand living together.

[ltt]

You are not paying your partner's bills----I'm assuming----therefore, you have no say in this matter.

[Retired To Win]

It appears that you believe your resources are or will be pooled. Your partner clearly does not.

I personally believe that you don't pool unless you are married or have entered into a legally binding partnership agreement. Even then you need clear definitions of mutual goals & how you both plan to get there. Otherwise, separate finances, & only one of you should own the house unless you have a written agreement on how you will handle jointly owned assets should you separate.

THIS... except for the house ownership comment.

My wife and I have been together for over 20 years (about 10 or so married) and we have owned 4 houses together.  Even though our personal finances have always been separate.  And even though, for all houses, neither our individual contributions to the mortgage payment nor our understood ownership shares were equal (rather they were proportioned to our relative incomes).  It has all worked out.

On the other stuff, like that car the OP is freaking about, separate finances baby.  You want the car. You pay for the car.  YOU.

[PEIslander]

Sorry Fire47 - I'm confused. You sometimes refer to your partner as "they". Is there a third party involved?

[johnny847]

Sorry Fire47 - I'm confused. You sometimes refer to your partner as "they". Is there a third party involved?

It's possible that FIRE47 doesn't want to reveal his or her gender, nor the gender of his or her partner.

[Noodle]

I would just ask what happened. Maybe your partner got carried away in the enthusiasm of car shopping. Maybe there was not as much agreement as you thought on the plan. Maybe she realized she just didn't want to go through a lot of negotiations and test-driving and bought the first thing she liked. Treat it as an opportunity to learn something about her and don't catastrophize too much.

[accolay]

Although annoying and frustrating, there isn't much you can do if you want to continue the relationship. It is their money and can do with what they want. I really understand why you're pulling your hair out- if I'd talked with someone, made some goals together about purchasing a house and was doing everything I could to save my cash, and they just started blowing it I'd be red hot. You need to talk with them after you've had some time to simmer down and explain your frustration in a rational way.

It's too bad, but if this is how the rest of your life with this person might be (goals made and broken) maybe rethink that...

[deborah]

Think about your discussions. Were you really on the same page, or were you dictating what you thought should be bought, and your partner was just blythly agreeing? Were there actually any differences expressed?

Next, think about buying habits that have been shown over the period that you have known each other. Does your partner go out and buy things that day, or do they agonize over purchases, compare everything on the internet for weeks, and then go out and plan to buy it?

Looking at these, is your partner showing standard behaviour in buying this car, or not?

I know I drive my partner mad sometimes when I come in the door with something new that he hasn't heard that I will even buy. However, it has never mattered, as I have always saved 80% of my income - it is just my way of buying things. He is more of the person agonising for weeks over what the best thing is to buy. This sometimes really annoys me - I vividly remember the irises being in bloom (I photograph them when they come out each year), and discovering the camera needed replacing (completely dead). He was going to take three weeks to assess the cameras available (these things can't be rushed) by which time, the irises would be a distant memory. Of course, I was going out to buy a camera that day!

You say you are both frugal. If this is so, and you have different buying habits, you possibly need to have a discussion about them, and how to avoid future problems.

However, if you are not on the same page, you may need to do difficult things to get yourselves there.

[BlueHouse]

My immediate thought was that your partner fell victim to the standard marketing ploys of a car dealership.  They WANT you to want all of those things and it take a very strong will and a very strong plan ahead of time to determine how to resist those wonderful heated leather seats and all other fancy options. 
My advice is to speak calmly with your partner, find out if your goals are the same and the methods you want to take to achieve those goals are the same, and realize that it's not too late to change your mind on the car -- ( I think cars fit in to the 3 day rule on returns, but could be wrong)
Hope it works out for you.

[neophyte]

I don't have any idea about the car.

I ... have saved around 3 times as much in the time that we have been discussing our future together despite having to pay rent and groceries (they live at home)- incomes very similar.

I guess I'm more pessimistic than most here. This jumped out at me. In the same time frame you have earned roughly the same amount but you've had to pay for the basic costs of living (rent, utilities, food) while she has had that provided for free and you have saved three time as much as she has! I'm assuming that isn't considering the car, so now their savings are less than 1/3 of yours. Unless she's been using this opportunity to very aggressively pay down student loans, I'd reconsider how 'generally good' with money your partner is. Right now essentially her entire income is 'fun money'. It isn't too hard to save money if you don't have to pay for the basics. I'd hazard a guess that a lot of folks on these forums manage to keep spending to about $100 /month/person after the basics are out of the picture.

Unless you have explicitly discussed it and made a hypothetical budget together, I'd be concerned that she doesn't have much experience budgeting and doesn't really know how car payments, mortgage, utilities, insurance, etc. will add up. Suddenly her available 'fun money' category is going to be a LOT smaller than what she is used to.

I'd also be wary of buying a house together. I'd suggest either renting together for a while, or you buy the house and she rents from you.  Perhaps with some agreement stating that after you are married/civil partnershiped/ been living together more than X number of years she gets a percentage of equity in the house related to the rent she's been paying.

If you still want to buy a house together it's probably a good idea for you to sit down next to each other and write out individual detailed budgets so you both know what the situation would look like.  "Honey, I can't make my half of the mortgage this month, you don't mind covering it for me do you?" Is not a situation you want to wind up in. And draw up an agreement on how ownership of the house would work. My roommate and I have been considering buying a house together if the right one comes on the market and we have been making a list of 'what ifs' that we will put into a contract if we end up buying a house (what if: one of us dies, one wants to move in a SO, one wants to move out, one wants to sell one doesn't, one want's to lease their part of the house, one of us does more labor fixing it up, we disagree on rehab/repairs, major work needs to be done and only one of us can afford to pay for it, one of us loses a job, etc.)


Disclaimer:  I'm probably extra grumpy about money and relationships. I just got out of a relationship where money was one of our issues and I also felt a lot of confusion about whether my concern was justified or if I was being controlling. Financial concerns didn't become an issue until we seriously started thinking about combining our lives, but (fortunately) everything went south before we moved in together.  Because of our disagreements about money, I found MMM, so something good came out of all of it.

[thebrowze]

Suddenly today a vehicle was purchased in what was expected to take 2-3 weeks to decide and going against almost everything we had talked about. The car purchased was over the amount that had been talked about (about twice what I felt was reasonable and about 4-5 times what a reliable decent vehicle by this forums standards should cost) in addition to being over her own initial set amount. The reasons given were that it had to have everything (moonroof, heated this and that etc) which upsets me more just hearing that. The vehicle was financed over 5 years :(.

My then girlfriend, now wife, did a similar thing several years ago.  She had leased a new, but relatively sensible car three years earlier and had saved enough money at her new job to buy the car outright for cash at lease termination.  Instead of doing that, however, she gave it back and put the saved amount (five figures) as a down payment on a brand new convertible.  The total cost of the new car was appreciably more than her annual income at the time, and the five year financing DOUBLED her monthly car payment to only $50 less than her rent.

For those of you who have said that it was none of my business because we weren't married and hadn't pooled resources, I would agree with you except for this: we had talked very seriously about getting married in the near future and even how we would combine finances once we were married. The only reason she didn't already have a ring on her finger at that point is because she had made clear she would say "no" when asked if I hadn't finished paying off some earlier debt (early 20s me was worthy of many face punches).  However, since I was nearly done with that payoff it was clear she was expecting me to take debt on for her car.  The double standard really pissed me off at the time, and until we got rid of it that car was a source of tension in our marriage.

OP, I don't know what your future plans are with your partner, but since you're planning on buying a house together I imagine you're thinking loan term.  If you have long term plans with someone then them unilaterally deciding to sign up for a five year car note DOES affect you, even if your name isn't on the loan.  The degree of the affect depends on how/if you combine finances, but it does affect you nonetheless.  It may affect your ability to get a mortgage for your house, if you are borrowing jointly.  I would (and did) feel upset if someone decided to bring tens of thousands of dollars of debt into our relationship without so much as a discussion or a heads up.

Unfortunately, what's done is probably done.  What I did after was sit her down and explain why her decision upset me (both generally bad decision and the double standard issue).  We have generally been much more on the same page financially after tying the knot, and we made all big spending decisions together from that point.


P.S. Count me in the camp of those extremely wary of buying a house with someone you're not married to and with whom you have never lived together.

[MayDay]

If you are planning to buy a house jointly, then your finances are already merged to a degree (or will be once you b the house).

Her car choice says something about her goals.  Is the car purchase going to effect the supposedly joint goal of buying a house?  If so, it sure is your business. 

Frankly, married yet or not, but the time I'd dated my H for 3 years and we were planning financially together (impending marriage) we were jointly budgeting, loosely.  It was no longer just mine and his.  For me that was important to feel secure in his financial goals and stability.  So for me, if she isn't willing to open up about and and discuss, that's a huge problem.  For others who plan to always have seperate finances, maybe it's not a big deal. 

[maricela]

Do not buy a house with someone you aren't legally married to. In the event the relationship ends, divorce is there to legally settle the financial mess. Nothing like that exists outside of legal marriage.

[RysChristensen]

Apropos of nothing, am I the only one noticing that of the replies that didn't keep to the original gender-neutral designation, 100% thus far have assumed that the blow-the-money-on-the-car partner is a woman?

[ryanthequark]

OP, I'll tell you what I'd do if I were in your shoes. But I'll have to make some assumptions in order to do so. I assume:
a) You're very much in love with this person, and they're in love with you. You think maybe they're the one.
b) You've discussed melding your lives together. You've discussed the possibility of marriage and joining finances. (Obviously you've discussed living together and buying a home.)
c) You feel you can have difficult conversations with your partner.

If so, the answer is obvious: you should talk with your partner. I don't think your feelings are out of line, but whether they are or not is kind of irrelevant. You have them. And if you don't talk about them with your partner, they'll drive a wedge between you. Which you wouldn't want if (a) is true.

If (b) is true, then you have every right to be annoyed. Legally, people may join their lives in a short period of time - say, with the act of signing a marriage license. But in real life the process is often longer. It can take years, and perhaps it should. Lots of negotiation and communication is required along the way. And while you can't control the other person - even when you're married - you have an increasing (and legitimate) stake in that person's life and choices.

If you'd never discussed your finances or the prospect of joining them, and your partner did something financially irresponsible, you might be annoyed. But it's a larger issue when those prior conversations have taken place, because their actions undermine the credibility of those conversations. Which can have larger consequences: you could feel betrayed in some way; your trust in the other person could be undermined; you could doubt the other person's commitment to the other things you've agreed; you could doubt your ability to communicate and resolve issues with this person in the future.

But obviously there will be exceptions in life, sometimes even big exceptions. We don't always follow through and expecting perfection from the other person is unfair. But if (c) is true, you should be able to work those transgressions out - even when they're largish transgressions, as this one is. The best way to do so is to calmly refine what your issues are and why. Present them calmly and give the other person time to respond as they see fit. Listen with an open mind. Share your feelings when they're done, rinse and repeat.

If (c) isn't true, then that's a larger issue than any car purchase. If (a) isn't true, then perhaps you shouldn't be melding your lives together. If (b) isn't true, maybe you should do that before taking offense when they do something like this.

Ultimately - as you know - none of us can live your life for you; none of us understand the situation as well as you do; you have to make these decisions for yourself. But hopefully all this is helpful in some way.

[GizmoTX]

Apropos of nothing, am I the only one noticing that of the replies that didn't keep to the original gender-neutral designation, 100% thus far have assumed that the blow-the-money-on-the-car partner is a woman?

Because the OP included this: "The car purchased was over the amount that had been talked about (about twice what I felt was reasonable and about 4-5 times what a reliable decent vehicle by this forums standards should cost) in addition to being over her own initial set amount."

[ethereality]

Honestly, I would be upset. I'm only renting a room with my boyfriend, and we're years away from being married, if it happens at all, and still we discuss finances very openly. Even though it is "his money" and what I earn is "my money" we still have shared goals. The money he spends does affect to a certain degree the money we can spend together for our future.

But what's done is done. So a long talk is due, but if you're in it in the long run, it seems prudent to let go of any anger.

[wtjbatman]

Apropos of nothing, am I the only one noticing that of the replies that didn't keep to the original gender-neutral designation, 100% thus far have assumed that the blow-the-money-on-the-car partner is a woman?

Probably because, apropos of nothing, 100% of those people actually read the original post, unlike yourself.

Nice try though.

[Sunnymo]

Apropos of nothing, am I the only one noticing that of the replies that didn't keep to the original gender-neutral designation, 100% thus far have assumed that the blow-the-money-on-the-car partner is a woman?

Probably because, apropos of nothing, 100% of those people actually read the original post, unlike yourself.

Nice try though.

as noted by wtjbatman here is what you missed...

Suddenly today a vehicle was purchased in what was expected to take 2-3 weeks to decide and going against almost everything we had talked about. The car purchased was over the amount that had been talked about (about twice what I felt was reasonable and about 4-5 times what a reliable decent vehicle by this forums standards should cost) in addition to being over her own initial set amount. The reasons given were that it had to have everything (moonroof, heated this and that etc) which upsets me more just hearing that. The vehicle was financed over 5 years :(.

[RysChristensen]

Probably because, apropos of nothing, 100% of those people actually read the original post, unlike yourself.

Nice try though.

Thanks. I guess missing 1/422nd of a post deserves sarcasm. Although your math is off.

It's possible that FIRE47 doesn't want to reveal his or her gender, nor the gender of his or her partner.

[mozar]

Just putting it out there that maybe the OPs partner goes by they. It's becoming a more common pronoun. My ex went by they. (Sometimes my family members would slip up and say "she").
"They" also went and bought a brand new car. I felt like our lifestyles were incompatible after that, and it's one of the main reasons we broke up. I wasn't just concerned about the choice though. The biggest issue was that I felt I couldn't communicate with my ex about a shared future. The car was just a symptom.

[mxt0133]

OP I think you need to have a sit down about your individual financial goals.  Does she know how you feel about working and retirement?  Does she know of your FIRE plans, if you have any?  If you have never talked about the long game then they probably thinks that they can afford the car and house if the both of you are going to work until full retirement age.  If on the other hand your SO knows how you feel exactly about finances, work, retirement, getting a house together, and spent time discussing on what you both feel is a reasonable amount of a new/used car and they still did what they did, then something is off.  I would tell them exactly how you feel and see if you still have similar financial goals.

Have an open mind when you have the conversation and don't be judgmental, just try to understand their thought process and see if it's something you are willing to deal with as a co-owner of a house.

Let us know how it goes.

[daymare]

Ok, first I have to say that I really advise you to think twice about buying a house with someone you're not married to (or planning to be married to soon).  Could you buy the house on your own, and have her pay you rent?  You can write up a plan to add her to the house after you get married, but keep it just yours for now, if marriage is unlikely to happen in the near-term.

I have said very little up until now as the decision has been made and the vehicle purchased at this point not to mention I don't want to seem overly controlling. But am pretty upset as I am driving around in a very reasonable (shitty by outside this forum standards) vehicle and have saved around 3 times as much in the time that we have been discussing our future together despite having to pay rent and groceries (they live at home)- incomes very similar. The timeline for the house is what makes it all the more upsetting.

I think that feelings, more than being good or bad, just are.  Actions (like acting on being hurt or feeling spiteful) can be bad, as can dwelling on feelings that aren't productive.  But for now, just accept your feelings for what they are.  And share them!  You should be able to share your feelings (even the less admirable ones) with your partner.  Share that you felt surprised by the amount of money she spent on the car, that it made you sad because it felt like she wasn't giving much consideration to your house purchase, that you're feeling uncertain because she's prioritizing this car over other financial goals (or whatever you're thinking).  Ask her how she decided on buying this car, and then talk about how she imagines your finances will work in the future - would you want to combine them?  Would she want you to get her input before making big decisions (and vice versa)?

You should really get on the same page, or get clear on what the other is envisioning, as far as your finances go.  Definitely before you buy a house together.  It's possible she felt steam-rolled or intimidated or pressured to make the expensive car purchase.  You should talk about it. :)  Also, I would really recommend sticking to your feelings, and to how this purchase affects you - not on the fact that you think it's a stupid purchase.