The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: szymanski on April 21, 2013, 02:58:26 PM
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Hey MMM community.
First post although I have been lurking for a bit and enjoy the site.
I've seen other posts in this subforum related to relationships & money so I guess this is the place to ask.
My gf and I have been dating about 8 months. We hit it off early on & have discussed marriage. We're mid-30s. Neither of us have been married before. We get along well despite our different personalities (she's the social one, I'm less social). Some things I believe have weighed on the me though (maybe more so as we get further into the relationship) & what I am about to list affects many couples - money and our attitudes towards it/personality differences, relationship timelines & job situation. I'll go into more detail about each but I am wondering if I am being unreasonable to think about all these w/some concern.
Where I am today:
$140-150k in retirement accounts, $6k car loan @ 2.49%, $12k student loan @ 4.20%. I don't have a lot of liquid money in checking/savings accont as my job is stable $2k cash. No house, always been a renter. Paid off a graduate school loan last yr $12k.
Money & attitudes/personalities - I think I'm pretty frugal. I believe in spending $ on activities I enjoy or value. Ex - I think going out to out frequently to eat & to bar is expensive & is generally a waste of $. She likes to go out a lot but is willing to go to places where there's a deal - groupon/etc. I pay for 80-90% of what we do entertainment wise & spend around $300 a month. To me, that's a lot. To her, she has said in the past that she would spend $100 a weekend at bars/eating out. I'm ok w/spending money on travel and small trips and experiences.
I believe in saving - as much as possible. She's more of a free spirit w/money although I give her credit for being debt free aside from a house. She's been driving a beater for a while. She had a decent savings account balance. But I've heard her say the phrase "you can't take it with you on more than one occasion." I feel like she has a "wants it all" attitude as in she wants to go on vacations, live in a nice, big house, etc. I am more used to picking and choosing & not getting everything I want in effort to save now at my age.
Relationship timelines I think some of it may be biological (she wants to have kids) but she wants to be engaged soon and wants us to have a house together soon. Soon as in the next 6 months. The short timeline for what that would cost & the fact that I'd love to get rid of one more loan + have a lot more saved up in cash all seem daunting to me. I believe in making good financial decisions. I feel like there's no hurry. If this is the road I go, I'd rather not finance rings, weddings, not get in over my head w/a house and not have a kid right away (she knows this and feels the same but again, there's not a lot of time). On top of those steps and what that would cost, she talks about vacations, concerts, etc. Again, I feel as though I am expected to pay for most of it for the time being.
Job situation She hasn't had a job for more than 3 months since 2008. She has been able to live off savings, unemployment & gov't help (housing wise). I was ok with this for a while. I do see her job hunting and applying for jobs. But by her not having a job, I've had to pay for most everything. It is starting to annoy me, especially as she suggests taking vacations/trips and going to concerts/eating out/bar outings/etc. I feel as though I can't do some stuff b/c if I did she'd expect to go too & have it mostly paid for.
So, repeating the question, should these things weigh on me? I know nothing is perfect in a relationship and many marry into debt/etc. so maybe it just me but would like your opinions. There's a lot more to it detail wise but I have to get out and enjoy the weather.
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You already know the answer to this, right?
Who you marry is the most important financial decision you will ever make. The right choice gets you financial independence early and a happy life. The wrong one leads to debt and misery.
From what you have written, she wants a "normal life". That usually means a certain type of house in the "right" neighborhood, a "good" car, and enough other stuff so that she can hold her head up when she's with her friends. There's nothing wrong with that, if you don't mind years of crushing debt and lying awake at night figuring out how you are going to pay for all of it.
By virtue of being on this forum, you have chosen a different life for yourself. So, two different worlds. Can you live happy in hers? Can she live happy in yours? Or does it make more sense to find someone who wants the same things you do?
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Does she seem appreciative when you pay for everything or is it more what she expects you to do? If I was unemployed and my boyfriend was paying for everything, I would be super appreciative and would make sure he always knew it.
Also if I was unemployed, I would not be talking about going vacation. In my world, unemployed people don't get to go vacation. That may seem harsh but that's the way I see it.
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This is a little advice I heard a long time ago: marriages are really not 50/50. Maybe they ought to average out to 50/50 over all the years and all the contexts (money, effort, housework, childcare, patience, etc.), but in any given year, some aspects might be 100/0, depending on what else is going on -- like job loss or illness. Life-long partners have to be able to give more than is fair sometimes, and to take help graciously and gratefully when they need it, without tallying up the balance.
If you are already starting to feel resentment over spending "your" money on the two of you, if you are already wanting to do things alone and worrying that she will "expect" to come along, then you don't really seem to have a marriage-like relationship in development. Those resentments and worries will never get less; they only increase over time, especially when you have kids.
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Hey MMM community.
She had a decent savings account balance. But I've heard her say the phrase "you can't take it with you on more than one occasion." I feel like she has a "wants it all" attitude as in she wants to go on vacations, live in a nice, big house, etc.
Relationship timelines... but she wants to be engaged soon and wants us to have a house together soon. Soon as in the next 6 months...,
I feel as though I am expected to pay for most...
Job situation She hasn't had a job for more than 3 months since 2008...by her not having a job, I've had to pay for most everything... I feel as though I can't do some stuff b/c if I did she'd expect to go too & have it mostly paid for.
Does this girls first name begin with a J and her last name begins with an R? Seriously, this sounds a lot like a girl I dated several years ago. In her case, during the eight months we dated, she changed jobs three times, and moved twice. Fully expecting me to help her move. The first time I didn't know any better. The second time I was stupid.
She was pressuring us to move in to a new apartment after three months of dating. I resisted. She liked for me to spend 100 dollars on dinners. The first couple times I didn't know any better. The third and final time I was stupid.
She also wanted me to buy a BMW... because I deserved it...
What I noticed was, if she didn't get her way she turned really mean. I fully believe she was a cluster B personality type. I suggest you check out this website: http://shrink4men.wordpress.com/2009/01/21/relationships-with-borderline-narcissistic-personality-women/
And see how many of these traits she has.
Based on the little you've written, and being where I've been before, I'd run like the wind from this woman.
She does not sound stable, but she does sound like she is looking for someone to "save" her.
To directly answer you question, "should these things weigh on me?" YES. They should weigh on you so heavily that you have 110% safe sex with her. Actually stop having sex with her until her next period, and then get out of dodge being 100% confident that she isn't going to become, "oops, pregnant!" looks like you're going to be my Knight in Shining Armor after all!
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I would be real skeptical about going all-in on someone who doesn't have a job.
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I would be real skeptical about going all-in on someone who doesn't have a job.
Yeah, amen to what Joel said. And no, you are NOT being unreasonable here. Good luck.
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Am I being unreasonable?
I think your guy survival instincts are screaming "Ruuuuunnnnn!"
The chronic unemployment is one danger signal, as well as the entertainment entitlement.
The real clincher would be hearing her describe what sort of wedding she'd like to have. But of course you can't bring that conversation up with her yourself, although maybe you'd be lucky enough to overhear that discussion among her friends at a dinner or a party. My cynical perspective is that she'd want a big wedding and a big honeymoon, followed by a big house and a family. A more frugal life partner would probably prefer to save on the wedding/honeymoon in favor of a bigger down payment and more babysitters...
You seem to be her solution to many of her lifestyle problems. Is she reciprocating by solving any of your lifestyle problems, or is she potentially creating new ones?
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She hasn't had a steady job since 2008. You can blame the economy all you want, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation: she hasn't had steady work for four going on five years.
She expects you to pay for expensive stuff she thinks she deserves.
She wants to get married and have kids in the next six months.
Clearly, she is imagining a family life with a husband as the main breadwinner who will indulge her expensive ("expensive" to you, probably "just right" to her) tastes. Are you ready to become that guy? If not, run far, far away.
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Hi szymanski, while my situation is different, I can relate to dating someone who doesn't have a steady job. My boyfriend of a few years is a freelancer and it can be feast or famine in terms of work and income. In recent times it has been more like famine but it's gradually getting better again.
A summary of how this affects our (financial) relationship. Happily, he doesn't have debt. Also happily, he has savings (this fluctuates according to the feast and famine thing) and it has always been enough so that he doesn't require external financial assistance. We pay our own way when we go out. Sometimes during his "famine" times, I might treat him to something, but that's completely up to me. Our finances are separate and we don't plan on combining them anytime soon. We're also not planning on getting married yet, but we're definitely in this for the long haul, it's just that it doesn't seem that important to us at this stage and we're committed enough without it. He likes the life of a freelancer, and it worries me when he's not getting much work, but he reassures me that he will always be responsible for himself.
So basically, there may be some concerns, but he has good character and I'm reasonably comfortable with our situation and it works for us. However, it seems like yours is way trickier. I don't think you're being unreasonable. If she wants something, she should be prepared to pay for it herself. You should stop paying for her unless it's something you really want to do with her accompaniment, that she's not so keen on. You say you "feel expected to pay" for some of the things she wants. Don't. It shouldn't be an expectation. And be clear to her about that. If she wants a wedding and a house she should chip in. Ditto for holidays and other fun stuff.
Are you okay with potentially having to pay for her for the rest of your life? Or is she willing to shift her attitude/expectations and put her money where her mouth is?
Stand your ground now and if she doesn't like it, too bad. It's better for the both of you to find out sooner rather than later.
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Welcome to the forums!
My gf and I have been dating about 8 months. We hit it off early on & have discussed marriage. We're mid-30s. Neither of us have been married before. We get along well despite our different personalities (she's the social one, I'm less social). Some things I believe have weighed on the me though (maybe more so as we get further into the relationship) & what I am about to list affects many couples - money and our attitudes towards it/personality differences, relationship timelines & job situation. I'll go into more detail about each but I am wondering if I am being unreasonable to think about all these w/some concern.
I ended an 8ish month relationship about a month ago. He was a great guy, had a great stable job, and plenty of savings. But we just didn't fit together. We had different money and life priorities, when things were stressful for either of us, we fell apart, and we wanted different relationship roles.
Where I am today:
$140-150k in retirement accounts, $6k car loan @ 2.49%, $12k student loan @ 4.20%. I don't have a lot of liquid money in checking/savings accont as my job is stable $2k cash. No house, always been a renter. Paid off a graduate school loan last yr $12k.
Not sure what your income is, but it sounds like from below, you should have both of these two debts gone by the end of the year, ish? It doesn't like look like you're set up to buy a house or pay for much of a wedding in the near future since you have so little in cash. Even in Texas, where you can get houses for < $200k, that would be a $40k down payment.
Money & attitudes/personalities
You could both believe in saving as much as possible, but you have different spending priorities. My ex and I had different spending personalities. I wouldn't notice the little things stores try to get you to buy near the checkout or deviate from the list when hungry. I don't think he was unfrugal - we just had different priorities.
Relationship timelines
Okay, so her timeline is 6 months. What is your timeline? You've been with this woman for about 8 months now and you seem to have fairly accurate impressions of some things about her.
1) Do you want to spend the next 6 months of your life with her?
2) Do you want to spend the next year of your life with her?
3) Do you want to spend the rest of your life with her?
4) Do you want to have children with her?
5) Ignoring her, do you want to buy a house?
6) Ignoring her, do you want children?
Rings don't have to be expensive. Weddings don't have to be expensive. A Practical Wedding (http://apracticalwedding.com/) is a GREAT resource for this.
Sounds like she's buying into the American dream on the house thing. It's really not necessary to buy a house before having a kid. Babies are pretty tiny.
A relationship takes two people. You can't get married without both of you going along with it. Have you talked about the fact that you don't want to get married in the next six months.
Job situation She hasn't had a job for more than 3 months since 2008.
Not having a job isn't a problem if she's FI, but it doesn't sound like she is, unless she's hiding a lot of money from you. You paying for most everything isn't cool. Getting married wouldn't change that pattern, only cement it. It sounds like you're starting to resent her. My ex's solution to me not wanting to do something "expensive" was that he would just pay for it, but it wasn't because of money that I didn't want to do it...
Why can't she hold down a job?
So, repeating the question, should these things weigh on me? I know nothing is perfect in a relationship and many marry into debt/etc. so maybe it just me but would like your opinions. There's a lot more to it detail wise but I have to get out and enjoy the weather.
To me, every person who has debt has a different story. There are some debt stories that I would consider marrying and others that I wouldn't. For example, I saw a thread on Bogleheads today about a pair of lawyers who each paid off ~$50k in debt in about 7 months. That is a debt story I would marry - someone who has a *plan* for their debt. I wouldn't marry someone with high-interest debt they're in no hurry to pay off. To me, monthly financial decisions, how someone spends their money, whether someone saves, etc. is more important than how much money they have. It sounds like you two don't agree on how to spend *your* money though.
What people told me is that yes, not everything in a relationship is perfect, but with different spending styles, an inability to communicate about the hard things, and a general zapping of energy by being in the relationship, it wasn't the right relationship for me.
Good luck!
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szymanski, have you had any discussion with her about early retirement? I don't know if you have any specific plans for ER. If you do, have you discussed them with her?
If not, might she think that your frugality is a relatively short-term thing to get your remaining debts paid off, and when out of debt you would "improve" (inflate) your lifestyle to match normal standards?
If you have a talk with her about the possibility of ER, it will probably not go too well if she is consciously or subconsciously expecting you to work until you are 65 to pay for all the things she expects as normal and reasonable for herself, the kids, and you. There's no upside and all downside (for her) to your retiring early, if that is her expectation.
Better to have that talk early, see what she is thinking, and even if she's not on board with the idea now, see if the idea will grow on her. If not, better to know now.
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Wait two years. It takes two years before you really know someone.
From what you have described this does not seem like like all signs pointing go. They are pointing to slow down and get off the six month plan.
You should pay attention to what Dynasty has to say. This may not be your circumstances, but I have seen a number of Cluster B personalities in my work and in relationship you will suffer... a lot. Research this and make sure you are not here - they can be very very charming people at first and treat you well to begin with. I think these people are where the saying "nice guys finish last" comes from.
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If she is in her mid thirties, and wants kids, then the biological clock is not just ticking but alarming as well. I agree with the other posters: I see big danger signs. Also if she is not the one, then you owe it to her to get out sooner rather than later - don't waste her reproductive time (if she wants kids).
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run run run the other way! she sounds like a hot mess. she might be a great person and you might get along with her really well but it sounds scary.
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Your post sounds like you have serious doubts. You're describing the way she acts in pretty negative terms - I didn't hear a lot of positives in there.
I think you should bring your concerns up with her, not with us. You mention how she wants a house and kids, but what do you want?
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Be yourself around her. Tell her you choose not to spend money on fancy dinners, nice cars, expensive ring/wedding, big house, etc. Tell her what kind of life you are planning to live, starting now and all the way through. Let her know you are willing to adjust your plans as part of a relationship, but not live a "normal" life. Stop being the bank and start expecting her to participate fully in the financial aspects of life. If it's not "necessary", then you don't pay for it. Have the "children" conversation and be honest, for her sake as well as your own.
After that discussion and those changes I bet the outcome will become clear. If not then you have some more thinking to do, but right now you have actions you can take without having to decide where it will go.
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My gf and I have been dating about 8 months. We hit it off early on & have discussed marriage. We're mid-30s...but she wants to be engaged soon and wants us to have a house together soon. Soon as in the next 6 months.
Under "normal" circumstances, I would say that is a reasonable timeline. Mid-30s and dating for 8 months, yeah it is time to get serious or move on and let her start over with someone else. Whatever you decide, don't waste her time right now - her bio-clock has serious limits. You say "there's no hurry" but that is 100% false if she wants kids. I see that attitude in all of my mid-30s single male friends - they don't understand why the women they meet are in such a hurry to get serious. It is a really naive attitude.
That being said, it sounds like you need to have a difficult honest conversation with her. I personally would never be ok letting a dude pay for all my stuff like that - but she clearly is. That says to me this set up is what she expects for the future - that she will stay home with the kids and you will work and bring in the money. That is great set up if that is also what you want. If that is not what you want, if you want to be a two-income household, be clear about that now and make gainful employment a condition of engagement. Sounds harsh, but you need to be on the same page as far as what you both expect in a life-partner relationship.
Money & attitudes/personalities - I think I'm pretty frugal. I believe in spending $ on activities I enjoy or value. Ex - I think going out to out frequently to eat & to bar is expensive & is generally a waste of $. She likes to go out a lot but is willing to go to places where there's a deal - groupon/etc. I pay for 80-90% of what we do entertainment wise & spend around $300 a month. To me, that's a lot. To her, she has said in the past that she would spend $100 a weekend at bars/eating out. I'm ok w/spending money on travel and small trips and experiences.
I could be reading it wrong, but it sounds like you're making a value judgement that trips and experiences are more "worthy" than eating out & bars. It may be your preference, but it isn't inherently any less wasteful to spend money on trips than at restaurants - it is just a matter of what a person enjoys.
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I was giving her the benefit of the doubt that she was more or less just an "average" American, for better or for worse, until I got to the part about her being unemployed for so long, yet expecting you to pay for everything. I think, as others have said, you need to at the least have a long conversation with her about your differing expectations for your lives. I'm not sure you can reconcile your two very different pictures. But certainly if you can't have that conversation, you're not ready to be married.
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You should pay attention to what Dynasty has to say. This may not be your circumstances, but I have seen a number of Cluster B personalities in my work and in relationship you will suffer... a lot. Research this and make sure you are not here - they can be very very charming people at first and treat you well to begin with.
Very very charming at first. And in the long run very damaging to your emotional and physical health, and especially your finances if you allow it.
Luckily for me, other than a few expensive dinners, my finances did not suffer. But there was something very toxic about her.
I'm not going to go into all the details, but what my girl was trying to do by attempting to get us to shack up together at the three month point, was position herself in a situation, where she could go down to part time work, and have me provide financial stability to her life. And when she caught on that I wasn't going to indulge her "agenda" she changed. That's when the toxicity started.
Is there any equity in her house? Is it big enough for a family? Is her plan to marry you, sell her house, and buy a bigger fancier house somewhere together? But with the mortgage payments, and diaper service provided by you?
What is her past job experience? How did she buy the house? Was it with inheritance money? Has she been married before maybe and perhaps took husband # 1 to the cleaners? And that's what she has been living on for the past four or five years?
You mentioned in your first post: gov't help (housing wise). What is this? Does the government now make peoples mortgage payments who are unemployed?
What I am really sensing here (among many red flags) is her savings are going to be gone in less than a year. And you are on the menu for financial support.
Whether or not she really wants a child, only she knows. But my guess is she is more or less looking for an anchor baby to cement that financial support from the unlucky bastard that is you for the next 18 years.
I'm going to repeat it again. Do not have unprotected sex with this woman. And since you already probably are, its going to get messy when you pull out a condom the next time you two get freaky. But not nearly as messy as the alternative.
Run. Run. Run away from this situation.
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I think James makes a great suggestion: stop buying the dinners, etc. which, unwittingly, might be setting up an expectation that the spending will continue. Let her know your values and goals and then let the chips fall where they may. It may be that she is onboard with you but needs some coaching and support. It may be that she bristles at the idea of badassity. Either way, you'll gain helpful information.
If it turns out that you're not on the same page money-wise and she is unwilling to change, do consider walking away. I know it isn't easy when there are aspects of another that one likes. However, as someone who was in a relationship with someone who was very financially irresponsible, it can be expensive--and we weren't even married. Now, I'm with someone with whom I'm on the same page in this area of our lives; it makes all the difference. Good luck!
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I think you know what to do. Time to man up (heh) and ditch her.
This jobless, quasi-homeless girl has no career prospects, looks fading (mid 30s) and has reached the last few seconds on the clock for finding her baby-daddy. If you go all-in, be prepared for 20+ years of all your financial plans gone out the window.
Realize that at 8 months in you're in the danger zone of "long enough to think about the future together" but still "excited about this new relationship and being in love/lust"
A terrible zone to be in for making any life-long decisions...
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We had a great thread about personal differences in relationships on this forum a few months back. The original situation was different with genders reversed and a younger couple, but it's still a great read.
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/financial-differences-in-a-relationship-when-are-they-too-much/
You've done a great job convincing posters in this thread that she's a terrible "investment", and we've heard very little on what she's good at. Relationships are rarely black and white, it's a spectrum. What do you like in her? That being said, you have every reason to tread with caution since she needs to "act" quickly in order to achieve her goals.
Best of luck to you.
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Am I being unreasonable?
I think your guy survival instincts are screaming "Ruuuuunnnnn!"
The chronic unemployment is one danger signal, as well as the entertainment entitlement.
The real clincher would be hearing her describe what sort of wedding she'd like to have. But of course you can't bring that conversation up with her yourself, although maybe you'd be lucky enough to overhear that discussion among her friends at a dinner or a party. My cynical perspective is that she'd want a big wedding and a big honeymoon, followed by a big house and a family. A more frugal life partner would probably prefer to save on the wedding/honeymoon in favor of a bigger down payment and more babysitters...
You seem to be her solution to many of her lifestyle problems. Is she reciprocating by solving any of your lifestyle problems, or is she potentially creating new ones?
Thanks to everyone. I'll try to answer a few posts under this one.
Does she seem appreciative that I pay for so much? She does thank me but not always. She seems to be appreciative after we do something nice but not so much when it comes to smaller gestures. Her memory doesn't last long either.
In re: to resentment...I think I do understand that things will happen in marriages and you have to be willing to pull more than your weight. I think my resentment stems from her not helping me much w/all the time she has. I cook 99% of the meals at home, have to clean dishes, have to come up with things to do, figure out what to eat, etc. She makes comments when I don't fix something for her. She spends the day on the computer (some of it applying for jobs) + watching tv. She waits to run errands when I am available to go too. I don't feel like I get much help.
Nords - you are pretty spot on. Nice wedding - destination style likely. She has expensive travel taste.
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You need to walk away from this. If you don't, you will regret it.
Sorry to be blunt, but you will kick yourself in the ass later if you don't take that advice.
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I cook 99% of the meals at home, have to clean dishes, have to come up with things to do, figure out what to eat, etc. She makes comments when I don't fix something for her. She spends the day on the computer (some of it applying for jobs) + watching tv. She waits to run errands when I am available to go too. I don't feel like I get much help.
I will further pile on the need to discuss these feelings with her. There was a time in my marriage when I felt something similar - like I was doing a lot more work and not getting a ton of help. When we discussed it, he felt the same way. It was that he was taking care of things I didn't realize or think about, and I was doing things he didn't realize or think about.
Can you not talk to her about your feelings? I'm willing to venture that being able to communicate effectively and calmly is even more important to the health of a relationship than being of like mind in financial matters. Have you told her it bothers you that you have to pay for everything and cook the meals? If not, why not?
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Run Forrest! Run!!!!!
If you think she's not fair now, wait until you're being cross examined by her a$$hole divorce attorney about why you haven't kept her standard of living as high after the separation! Doesn't she deserve to have you subsidize vacations with her unemployed boyfriend? Doesn't she deserve to have that same standard of living that you established during the marriage, for the rest of her life? Think this, and much worse, doesn't happen, think again.... Especially with her lack of much employment, you become more vulnerable to out of proportion payments.
Been there.
Run Forrest!! Run!!!! She could be the reason you work an extra decade or two before FI.
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What you state sounds like a lot of rationalization to me.
What I would do in your shoes is to put some distance in the relationship. You don't say you are living together, so I will assume you are not. I would tell her you are not sure this relationship will lead to a successful marriage and explain why. Then I would back off this relationship and start looking at what I really want in a marriage partner. If over the next few months, she comes around and the relationship turns out to be what you want, great. Otherwise, you can look for someone else with the knowledge of what you really want.
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This is sounding worse and worse. Lack of financial contribution, and hopeless with domestic tasks and other errands? I'm sure there is a reason you're still sticking around, so what is it? Give us some positives. But yeah, if it's really just all the rose-colored stuff that you can get with any new-ish relationship (fun and lust and excitement) - that's not going to hold up to all those significant negatives in the long run. Tread carefully.
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I cook 99% of the meals at home, have to clean dishes, have to come up with things to do, figure out what to eat, etc. She makes comments when I don't fix something for her. She spends the day on the computer (some of it applying for jobs) + watching tv. She waits to run errands when I am available to go too. I don't feel like I get much help.
You just might be getting played for a sucker.
I don't think any amount of stimulating... conversation can make up for that exploitative behavior.
Sounds like you should be setting up to have "the talk".
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Active things you can do while trying to make up your mind:
1) start babysitting as a couple. Pay attention to her attitude around children. Is she compasionate? Patient? Hostile(hope not)? Try to do it regularly enough that the novelty wears off before you make any judgments. (oh, also does she get along with her side of the family? siblings, mom&dad)
2) Pre-Marital workshop as a couple. Let a neutral third party prompts serious conversations about what each of you expect after marriage.
3) Crash a divorce support group alone. Whether it's true or not, say you're facing issues in your relationship and you're considering a separation. Keep it short, you're not there to talk, you're there to listen to others. As they share their situations and perspectives, try to imagine what you would do in their specific situation. It will challenge you as a person.
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(oh, also does she get along with her side of the family? siblings, mom&dad)
If I'd applied this test to my fiancée (now my spouse of 26+ years) then I would've run away screaming. In fact when my spouse and I were dating in college she spent most of her time avoiding her parents, and now I completely understand why.
We're the founding members of the "Association Of Parents Doing A Better Job Than Their Own Parents".
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Generally, there are three things a man looks for in woman.
Assuming he is attracted to her, here they are in no particular order.
1) She cooks
2) She cleans
3) She has sex (with him)
So right now we know she doesn't cook or clean. Or WORK.
Obviously, she must be doing number three. I guarantee you this: As soon as she has a baby, number three will stop.
A long time ago, my friends loser sister, who was a single mother on welfare, hooked up with a sailor. She got pregnant, they got married, and sex 100% stopped. In fact, their baby daughter slept in the parents bed at least until she was eight or nine years old. Can't have sex with your husband if your kid is sleeping with you all the time.
She did not work when they met, hence why she was on welfare. And she has not worked a day since the met. But she did put on about 100 pounds.
The few times I've been over at their house, she would belittle him and make fun of him in front of everyone. The guy looked completely beat down and miserable. Actually, he is a really nice guy who made a terrible mistake with this woman.
Dude, this could be your life. Or your life could be a slight variation of this story.
The only thing you need to talk to her about is how you are moving on. Forget the babysitting, and pre marital counseling crap. The only thing you need to be concerned with is your exit strategy.
Another Reader posted this: "Then I would back off this relationship and start looking at what I really want in a marriage partner. If over the next few months, she comes around and the relationship turns out to be what you want, great. Otherwise, you can look for someone else with the knowledge of what you really want."
The problem with this approach is there is a high probability it will generate short term positive returns, which will lull the OP into a false state of security. He'll then let his guard down, and the old behaviors the girlfriend has been suppressing will return. The other problem is no one knows how long she will be able to maintain this act. It could be three weeks, or it could be 8 months.
Six months from now, the OP and the soon to be Mrs. could be walking down the aisle, and two weeks after the honeymoon to the Italian countryside Mrs. Syzmanski is going to return to her current behavior. Then the OP is going to be really stuck since he signed a business agreement with her.
Get the F away from this woman.
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I would be real skeptical about going all-in on someone who doesn't have a job.
Yeah, I worked with a guy once whose girlfriend didn't have a job. He bought a house. Put her on it. Refinanced, but he had to take her off it because she had no income. Put her back on it after the refi.
She dumped him, and took half the house.
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I would be real skeptical about going all-in on someone who doesn't have a job.
Yeah, I worked with a guy once whose girlfriend didn't have a job. He bought a house. Put her on it. Refinanced, but he had to take her off it because she had no income. Put her back on it after the refi.
She dumped him, and took half the house.
Who on earth puts an unemployed non-spouse on a title, TWICE?
This thread has made me sad.
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Sounds like a relationship that is on a fast train to hell. I had an ex just like this... As soon as I mentioned I don't think this relationship would work she tried to screw me over in every possible way known to mankind (claiming pregnancy, 'knowing things about me', killing herself etc).... Ending up getting a restraining order against her.
If you want kids, find yourself a somewhat younger spouse when you are ready to make babies.
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Generally, there are three things a man looks for in woman.
Assuming he is attracted to her, here they are in no particular order.
1) She cooks
2) She cleans
3) She has sex (with him)
Thank God the Mr. didn't hold me accountable for number 1 (in fact it his cooking is one of the things i was looking for in a man) or we wouldn't have gotten very far at all :)
As for the OPs problem, I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt until I got to the part where she hadn't held a job for more than 3 months in 5 years. There's a reason many managers recommend a 3 month trial period with new hires, and unless there are some major medical issues making it difficult to hold a position due to constant hospitalization etc. (which you did not mention) this is a HUGE red flag for me.
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Sounds like a relationship that is on a fast train to hell. I had an ex just like this... As soon as I mentioned I don't think this relationship would work she tried to screw me over in every possible way known to mankind (claiming pregnancy, 'knowing things about me', killing herself etc).... Ending up getting a restraining order against her.
Been there. Hung out with a girl for about a week and half. The day after we met she told me she had a secret to tell me. The secret was, she wanted to move in with me, marry me, and have my children. I thought she was joking. Five days in she started telling me she loved me, in 20 or 30 minute intervals. Six days in, she's wanting my baby really bad. 10 days in she is scaring the life out of me. Talking about chopping me up, and putting me in a frying pan if she ever found out I was with another woman. Threatening she'd sleep with the married guy across the street if I were to cheat on her.
Six weeks later and a thousand bizarre text messages from her ranging from hating me one minute, to asking me over for dinner ten minutes later... calling me a sinner in God's eyes, calling me an adulterer, asking me over for dinner again... All with zero phone calls or text messages from me... she was coming over to my house when I was at work, and leaving weird presents in my mailbox. Writing weird messages to me on my sidewalk and driveway with chalk.
Ended up having to get a protection order against her. While researching "crazy girlfriend stories" on Google, is how I learned about the cluster B personality types.
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You should pay attention to what Dynasty has to say. This may not be your circumstances, but I have seen a number of Cluster B personalities in my work and in relationship you will suffer... a lot. Research this and make sure you are not here - they can be very very charming people at first and treat you well to begin with.
Very very charming at first. And in the long run very damaging to your emotional and physical health, and especially your finances if you allow it.
Luckily for me, other than a few expensive dinners, my finances did not suffer. But there was something very toxic about her.
I'm not going to go into all the details, but what my girl was trying to do by attempting to get us to shack up together at the three month point, was position herself in a situation, where she could go down to part time work, and have me provide financial stability to her life. And when she caught on that I wasn't going to indulge her "agenda" she changed. That's when the toxicity started.
Is there any equity in her house? Is it big enough for a family? Is her plan to marry you, sell her house, and buy a bigger fancier house somewhere together? But with the mortgage payments, and diaper service provided by you?
What is her past job experience? How did she buy the house? Was it with inheritance money? Has she been married before maybe and perhaps took husband # 1 to the cleaners? And that's what she has been living on for the past four or five years?
You mentioned in your first post: gov't help (housing wise). What is this? Does the government now make peoples mortgage payments who are unemployed?
What I am really sensing here (among many red flags) is her savings are going to be gone in less than a year. And you are on the menu for financial support.
Whether or not she really wants a child, only she knows. But my guess is she is more or less looking for an anchor baby to cement that financial support from the unlucky bastard that is you for the next 18 years.
I'm going to repeat it again. Do not have unprotected sex with this woman. And since you already probably are, its going to get messy when you pull out a condom the next time you two get freaky. But not nearly as messy as the alternative.
Run. Run. Run away from this situation.
Hi D. A few answers.
The housing help is some gov program for the unemployed that helps w/payments & keeps them in a house. Basically, she shifted her savings to an account w/parents, qualified for the assistance & has been getting her mortgage paid for what will be a yr. If she sells the home, she would have to pay a chunk of it back. In Aug, she will take over payments again & I believe this will start to drain the savings unless she is able to line up some employment. I think it's also contributing to some of the urgency for me to make another step fwd - live together.
In terms of equity, she probably has some but I think she would give back a lot of it after realtor fees, money needed to make improvements to sell the home + the gov program kicker.
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Generally, there are three things a man looks for in woman.
How misogynist cynical! Perhaps she is kind, intelligent, and fun to be with. Maybe szymanski really loves her, and we are breaking his heart in reducing a complex person to her functionality, as if she were an appliance.
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Generally, there are three things a man looks for in woman.
How misogynist cynical! Perhaps she is kind, intelligent, and fun to be with. Maybe szymanski really loves her, and we are breaking his heart in reducing a complex person to her functionality, as if she were an appliance.
i agree with you, there's a lot of women are like this / men are like that in this thread, and stuff like that makes me grumpy.
however, it does sound like this isn't a particularly good match. my experience has shown me that "loving" someone isn't enough when the "functionality" part of the relationship working. both parts have to be there.
generally, if a relationship feels fraught and difficult more than, say, 10-20% of the time, it's not a good relationship.
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Generally, there are three things a man looks for in woman.
Assuming he is attracted to her, here they are in no particular order.
1) She cooks
2) She cleans
3) She has sex (with him)
I'm not on board with OP's relationship, and from what he's said it sounds like he needs to get out, but your comment is extremely offensive and absurd.
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Generally, there are three things a man looks for in woman.
Assuming he is attracted to her, here they are in no particular order.
1) She cooks
2) She cleans
3) She has sex (with him)
I'm not on board with OP's relationship, and from what he's said it sounds like he needs to get out, but your comment is extremely offensive and absurd.
Seconded. It's flat out disgusting.
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It's offensive because Dynasty only applied it to women, but lets be honest, my list of qualities to look for in a man includes but is not limited to:
1)he cooks
2)he cleans
3)he has sex (with me)
I don't see anything wrong with members of both sexes looking for a partner that is capable of taking care of themselves, among a whole other list of important values and qualities that should match up.
If the comment was intended to be
1) She cooks (for him, at all times so he never has to)
2) She cleans (all of the things, his and hers, so he doesn't have to)
3) She has sex (with him, only for his enjoyment and at all times he requests it. no icky cuddling or talking after)
Then sure, I'll grab my pitchfork and torch because obviously, misogyny/stereotypes galore. But having a two contributing members in partnership is a pretty important, and who contributes what, what that contribution is valued at, and when they contribute it is something the people actually in the partnership should figure out. As for the OP, it isn't clear what his girlfriends contribution to the partnership is, but it is pretty clear what she expects his contributions to be [hint: the expected contributions rhyme with "demon" and "honey", respectively].
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What is disgusting about it?
What is disgusting about wanting to be in a relationship with someone who pulls their own weight?
1) She cooks: A lot of people don't like to cook, but some do.
2) She cleans: Most people hate cleaning, but some do.
3) She has sex (with him): Most people like to have sex, but some don't.
Why would any man want to be involved in a relationship with a woman who sits around all day watching TV and playing on the computer. Just to get home from work, and be greeted with and house that is a mess, and if he's lucky, kraft macaroni and cheese for dinner?
When I first posted this list, I prefaced it with "assuming he is attracted to her". I'll add to that, assuming he is attracted to her, she is pleasant to be around, and she has her life in order.
And of course there are a lot of guys out there who just want to watch sports on TV all evening and drink beer too. I'd create a list like that of things to avoid in a male mate for women.
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It's disgusting that you would reduce a relationship down to something so pathetic. My relationship with my significant other is based on NONE of those factors. There is a huge difference between saying that she needs to pull her own weight and that the relationship should be an equal partnership, which is what nearly everyone in this thread has said, and you saying that "there are three things a man looks for in woman".
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What is disgusting about it?
What is disgusting about wanting to be in a relationship with someone who pulls their own weight?
1) She cooks: A lot of people don't like to cook, but some do.
2) She cleans: Most people hate cleaning, but some do.
3) She has sex (with him): Most people like to have sex, but some don't.
Why would any man want to be involved in a relationship with a woman who sits around all day watching TV and playing on the computer. Just to get home from work, and be greeted with and house that is a mess, and if he's lucky, kraft macaroni and cheese for dinner?
When I first posted this list, I prefaced it with "assuming he is attracted to her". I'll add to that, assuming he is attracted to her, she is pleasant to be around, and she has her life in order.
And of course there are a lot of guys out there who just want to watch sports on TV all evening and drink beer too. I'd create a list like that of things to avoid in a male mate for women.
Had you said it like this, it's not. Particularly the bolded part. Funny how words work like that.
I have a feeling you meant it the first way, though.
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The alternative to cook/clean/sex is watch TV and play computer? Some women, you know, work. Some take care of kids or elderly folks. Some are disabled or otherwise incapable. Some are gifted artists, writers, activists, volunteers -- all valid ways to fill a day that don't particularly contribute to a man's comfort.
Not saying szymanski is in such a situation. He certainly needs to think hard and decide about his relationship knowing all the trade-offs. But, all relationships are complex systems of trade-offs, and people will choose to weigh them differently.
Think about the difference between who someone is and what someone does. Dynasty only seems to acknowledge the latter, which is guaranteed to change with the vagaries of life. Most new parents spend a couple of years tolerating sub-standard food, house-keeping, and sex when the babies are small. Folks also get old and lose their abilities and interest in some of these things, but love endures anyway. A relationship founded on "pulling one's own weight" may get rough when one partner can't.
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I'm a lass and I didn't take Dynasty's post literally. I think it was the caveman way to point out that the sex must be great if the OP is willing to look past all of those KAJILLION RED EFFING FLAGS. I was thinking it myself. But really, I have to echo most of the advice here, RUN. Run now. Run fast, and far.
I just left a relationship, eternally glad that we were not married and kept separate finances. I am confident that I can do better on my own, or find someone who is also shedding burdens instead of creating them. You should too, especially if kids are in your picture. It is WAY harder, and heart-crushing, to make any sort of changes with children.
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I have a feeling you meant it the first way, though.
Not really, but if it makes you feel better I sure did!
What really makes me mad is I think if anything szymanski should be the one who stays home all day, randomly applying for a job or two on the computer, and watch TV.
Then when his girlfriend gets home from work, she should cook him dinner 99% of the time, and then do 99% of the cleaning in the house. After all that is done, they can then go run errands together during the evenings, or on the weekends when they can both be together to run errands.
In between szymanski eating the meals the girlfriend prepares for him, and her cleaning the house, he can dream up expensive vacations, and swanky restaurants to go to for dinner and drinks. You know, nothing less than $300 dollars a month these dinners and drinks should cost the girlfriend.
Finally, szymanski should be really concerned with having a child, getting married, and moving into a newer bigger house. Like soon! Like in the next six months soon.
And he'll be a stay at home dad. And since taking care of the kid is going to be so exhausting and tiring all day, his new wife, when she gets home from working all day, can make szymanski dinner, and clean the house too.
Does this sound better?
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Definitely time to explain to her, as clearly as you did here, what kind of future you want. And, meanwhile, be very careful about birth control.
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I have a feeling you meant it the first way, though.
Not really, but if it makes you feel better I sure did!
What really makes me mad is I think if anything szymanski should be the one who stays home all day, randomly applying for a job or two on the computer, and watch TV.
Then when his girlfriend gets home from work, she should cook him dinner 99% of the time, and then do 99% of the cleaning in the house. After all that is done, they can then go run errands together during the evenings, or on the weekends when they can both be together to run errands.
In between szymanski eating the meals the girlfriend prepares for him, and her cleaning the house, he can dream up expensive vacations, and swanky restaurants to go to for dinner and drinks. You know, nothing less than $300 dollars a month these dinners and drinks should cost the girlfriend.
Finally, szymanski should be really concerned with having a child, getting married, and moving into a newer bigger house. Like soon! Like in the next six months soon.
And he'll be a stay at home dad. And since taking care of the kid is going to be so exhausting and tiring all day, his new wife, when she gets home from working all day, can make szymanski dinner, and clean the house too.
Does this sound better?
Dude, just stop. Nobody was defending the division of labor the OP described. Your original statement was insulting in part because it was extremely gendered.
A lot of the posters here read your first message like this:
1) She cooks (for him, at all times so he never has to)
2) She cleans (all of the things, his and hers, so he doesn't have to)
3) She has sex (with him, only for his enjoyment and at all times he requests it. no icky cuddling or talking after)
Because English and stereotypes. If you meant it to be a universal "what people look for in a relationship," write it that way.
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Wow. I gave up reading the responses, and I can see that they got a little crazy. It doesn't seem like you are in it for the long haul. As a stay-at-home mom, I know all about being supported by my spouse. I supported him for a while when he wasn't able to make much money right out of school. Now I stay home with our baby and he makes all the $$.
If sounds like you are feeling very resentful of her expectations of you. If you can't communicate that to her, then your relationship may need to end. If you are able to communicate with her, and you together agree on a timeline you are both comfortable with, then maybe you'll be able to work it out. No, weddings don't have to be expensive, and no, you don't HAVE to have a baby before you turn 35, but most importantly you have to decide what you both want together as a couple, then, most importantly, figure out how to get there TOGETHER. Marrying someone who expects to do all the dreaming and planning and that the other person will simply finance whatever they think up is not sustainable. Not only will it probably end in bankruptcy or at least a ton of debt, it will also likely end in divorce. Whether you want to bring kids into that type of non-communicative environment should be a no-brainer.
Good luck. I know we all post things like this when we are feeling most frustrated with our partner. I'm sure your girlfriend is a lovely person. I hope you can communicate with her so you can make a life plan together that you will both be happy and active participants in.
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In the words of the Crocodile Hunter "Danger, Danger Danger!" (Did you hear the accent?) You need to move on quickly. She wants a sugar daddy and not a MMM protege.
She sounds like a hot mess.
PS: I do 99% of the cleaning and cooking in my house. No comment on the sex.
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All comments aside (and I've read most of them - yeah she sounds like a hot mess - future disaster looking for a place to happen and yours is the place)
Stuff that crossed my mind . . .
Have you met her parents? What are their conditions? Siblings? Have you met any? Often times you can figure out a person's values by learning about their upbringing and how their brothers and sisters have fared. Why is she a 'Princess'?
Has she met your family? If so, not mentioned that I saw. How do her values and/or her family's values compare with how you were brought up?
Must totally agree with Dr. Vibrissae! There is a 3 month probation period for most jobs. And there's a reason when someone is dismissed after 3 months or less.
So sorry but I'm gonna go with 'RUN FORREST RUN' keep going and don't look back.
When the time comes the perfect woman will find you, you don't have to look, she'll just be there.
Honest!
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Perhaps (with Szymanski in mind) a new thread should be started? How did you meet your spouse/partner and how did you know that he/she was the one? I'm older so have had one divorce (but married at 17 - how stupid was that? My kids are in their 30's now), re-married at 42 (13 years ago) and wish I'd met this man oxoxoxox many years ago.
Well on our way to a comfortable - but not early - retirement.
Is there already a thread like this? For us 'Elderberries'?
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Run like hell.
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It's only going to get worse. Trust me.
A member of my family is like the person Dynasty described and she suckers men in with the charm and then controls them completely. She has been pregnant six times by five different men and once callously laughed to me as she flushed her birth control pills down the toilet, "X says he doesn't want kids yet. But he'd be thrilled if I got pregnant." She views men as meal tickets and decided she didn't want to work, so was flushing her bc pills. Her husband "stuck it out" and wound up assaulted with a hammer.
Dynasty's characterization of what men want out of a relationship is certainly not what all men want and might be why he wound up in a relationship with someone like that in the first place. She will pretend to be everything you want at the beginning. He's lucky he got out and he's not kidding about the potential trapping by these particular sorts of women.
I did find his comment misogynist. And I feel lucky that my boyfriend does not care about the cooking or cleaning aspect. Cooking and cleaning are no more a woman's jobs than a man's. As for the sex, damn...I care about that.
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Sounds like a good time to get out. My ex played something similar and two wks before our wedding she jumped ship. I had bought a car (horrible idea) and paid for some of her nursing school. She didn't have much of a job going to school so I took care of a lot of bills and extra things. After all was said and done I lost a shitload of money. Thankfully the car thing worked out and that took care of itself but that alone cost me around 3k ish. I learned a lot about people and money from that!
From my experience I'd punch out as mean as that sounds. Good luck!!
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It's only going to get worse. Trust me.
A member of my family is like the person Dynasty described and she suckers men in with the charm and then controls them completely.
Which one? I described three.
The girl I dated for eight months who wanted to live with me at day 90.
The girl I hung out with for a week and a half, and six and half weeks later got the protection order put in force from a judge for a year. So total of two months with her.
And my friend's sister.
Dynasty's characterization of what men want out of a relationship is certainly not what all men want and might be why he wound up in a relationship with someone like that in the first place. She will pretend to be everything you want at the beginning. He's lucky he got out and he's not kidding about the potential trapping by these particular sorts of women.
I did find his comment misogynist. And I feel lucky that my boyfriend does not care about the cooking or cleaning aspect. Cooking and cleaning are no more a woman's jobs than a man's. As for the sex, damn...I care about that.
Okay. First of all. I've never "ended" up with a woman who's cooked and cleaned for me. And second, although it could be interpreted as such I said cooking and cleaning are a woman's job. That was not my intent or my meaning.
And since just about everyone here except Fletch and KulshanGirl think's I'm an misogynist. I'm not too interested in explaining too much more of my meaning behind the three things I listed as men finding important in a mate. That being said, I apologize for offending anyone. And now that being said, let me explain some more.
I've had the pleasure of dating, and knowing some really interesting women in my life. And what I mean about the whole cooking and cleaning thing was, which will apply to men as well, is a MAN, or a woman, who cannot cook or clean lacks simple skills to be able to take care of themselves. That is it. And I never said anything about liking to cook or clean. I hate cleaning. I hate doing dishes. But I do it. Because I can take care of myself. And the woman I've known in my life romantically, and on a platonic level who do not cook (for themselves), and live on take out food, and who do not clean (their own apartment or house) and live in filth are literally a mess emotionally. And this would also apply to couple of male friends I've had in my life as well.
Luckily for me, my current girlfriend of the past year and a half not only keeps her apartment clean and tidy, but she also cooks really well. Plus, she likes to have sex with me. In addition to that, when she is over at my house I'll cook for her. Imagine that!
Now, getting back on topic with the intent of the OP starting this thread. I meant two things with my three criteria. 1) the sex must be incredible with this woman. And 2) why would a guy want to be with a woman who cannot take care of herself? That is all.
And now the cynic in me is going to close with someone is now either going to write or think.. "Well, if that's what you meant, that's what you would of written. I think you really meant such and such..."
Good luck OP. Keep us posted.
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A member of my family is like the person Dynasty described and she suckers men in with the charm and then controls them completely. She has been pregnant six times by five different men and once callously laughed to me as she flushed her birth control pills down the toilet, "X says he doesn't want kids yet. But he'd be thrilled if I got pregnant." She views men as meal tickets and decided she didn't want to work, so was flushing her bc pills. Her husband "stuck it out" and wound up assaulted with a hammer.
This woman has a future in trashy reality tv... you couldn't make this up if you tried. Amazing that dudes still fall for it after so many kids from different fathers. Unless she lies about where they came from, I guess.
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A member of my family is like the person Dynasty described and she suckers men in with the charm and then controls them completely. She has been pregnant six times by five different men and once callously laughed to me as she flushed her birth control pills down the toilet, "X says he doesn't want kids yet. But he'd be thrilled if I got pregnant." She views men as meal tickets and decided she didn't want to work, so was flushing her bc pills. Her husband "stuck it out" and wound up assaulted with a hammer.
This woman has a future in trashy reality tv... you couldn't make this up if you tried. Amazing that dudes still fall for it after so many kids from different fathers. Unless she lies about where they came from, I guess.
She is intelligent and good looking. She picks men whom she thinks make a lot of money and are less intelligent and attractive than she is. One friend of mine said to me, "You hear that these people exist, but I've never actually known of any of them until I talked to you."
She once spent the $80k equity from the marital home partying with some dude who was on American Idol and his band. She was 35 years old and had three children at the time, and while her husband made less than $100k/year and she didn't work, she was jetting here and there to party with the band. Her husband stuck his head in the sand the entire time. I guess it was a defense mechanism.
Dynasty: I didn't call you a misogynist, but your statement was. Sometimes people post stuff and they didn't intend for it to come out the way it did. That doesn't mean that the offending comment is suddenly innocuous. That so many women commented on it shows that the comment was offensive. I don't think you are a bad person based on one comment (crap, you have my sympathy for dating those women), but you can't post something so provocative and expect people not to respond. That's not the way the "free world" works.
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Dynasty: I didn't call you a misogynist, but your statement was. Sometimes people post stuff and they didn't intend for it to come out the way it did. That doesn't mean that the offending comment is suddenly innocuous. That so many women commented on it shows that the comment was offensive. I don't think you are a bad person based on one comment (crap, you have my sympathy for dating those women), but you can't post something so provocative and expect people not to respond. That's not the way the "free world" works.
Yup. And actually, I was more offended at the characterization that men are only looking for 3 things in a relationship than the implication that women should provide them (and yes, I'm a woman). I immediately thought of my wonderful fiance and all the things that go into our successful relationship and was offended for HIM that anyone would think all men's motivations fit that idea.
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She is intelligent and good looking. She picks men whom she thinks make a lot of money and are less intelligent and attractive than she is. One friend of mine said to me, "You hear that these people exist, but I've never actually known of any of them until I talked to you."
When I was active duty in the Air Force years and years ago I knew a girl exactly like this. She ended up getting pregnant from her supervisor 16 years her senior (overweight, balding, and not very good looking to begin with). He was two years away from retirement.
She was then going to marry some other sucker she worked with. Had him all conned she was going to marry him, and let him father the other guy's child. She was very very attractive. And looking for a meal ticket.
She lied to me for about four months saying the baby daddy was someone else. Which is understandable concerning the circumstances.
Long story short, she was 24 years old, and the real dad, her supervisor, was 40. They eventually got married, and he committed suicide.
She contacted me on Myspace probably 7 years ago. We wrote a couple of times back and forth. One of the comments she made to me was, "By the way I'm single for now, here is my number: 555-123-4567"
Of course I thought she was married still (having zero intentions at all of getting with her since she was evil, twisted and sick). She made another statement, "It's really a shame what happened to my husband"
Having no idea what she meant, I said something like "I want to know So and So's side of the story.
She responded back that he blew his brains out.
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Dynasty: I didn't call you a misogynist, but your statement was. Sometimes people post stuff and they didn't intend for it to come out the way it did. That doesn't mean that the offending comment is suddenly innocuous. That so many women commented on it shows that the comment was offensive. I don't think you are a bad person based on one comment (crap, you have my sympathy for dating those women), but you can't post something so provocative and expect people not to respond. That's not the way the "free world" works.
I understand.
How about we all agree that is was nothing more than a provocative statement (easily misunderstood), and a great topic of discussion?
If the essence of a mate (assuming one is attracted to another person) could be broken down into three very important qualities, what would they be?
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Dynasty: I didn't call you a misogynist, but your statement was. Sometimes people post stuff and they didn't intend for it to come out the way it did. That doesn't mean that the offending comment is suddenly innocuous. That so many women commented on it shows that the comment was offensive. I don't think you are a bad person based on one comment (crap, you have my sympathy for dating those women), but you can't post something so provocative and expect people not to respond. That's not the way the "free world" works.
I understand.
How about we all agree that is was nothing more than a provocative statement (easily misunderstood), and a great topic of discussion?
If the essence of a mate (assuming one is attracted to another person) could be broken down into three very important qualities, what would they be?
Mutual respect, partnership, and communication.
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In response to the OP...this relationship does not sound like one that is going to make you happy long term. The biggest red flag for me is the lack of a consistent job over a 5-year period. I realize that some people have had it rough in this economy through no fault of their own but that is still a huge red flag. Has she had any kind of job since she has met you? If not, I would be very suspicious that you are being "used" to some (or a lot) extent.
I think it is perfectly reasonable for you to lay out what your life goals are and what you need from her to help with that. She doesn't necessarily need to be on board with ER, but make it clear that you expect her to pull her fair share with expenses, and that you feel like right now you are subsidizing her lifestyle. Then, stop subsidizing her lifestyle--don't pay for activities that were her idea (pay for your half, but she has to pay for herself). It make not be fun for her to hear, but if she does genuinely love you, it may be exactly the wake-up call she needs. If she is just hoping you'll be her meal ticket, learning that you aren't interested in that role will likely make her go looking elsewhere.
Overall though, this really does sound like a relationship you might be better off ending. Definitely be proactive about figuring it out, don't rush into a wedding but don't drag out the decision process either.
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In Dynasty's defense, my own (half-caveman half-superhero) husband's response to OP's description of his girlfriend was: "Wow. She must be great in bed."
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She is intelligent and good looking. She picks men whom she thinks make a lot of money and are less intelligent and attractive than she is. One friend of mine said to me, "You hear that these people exist, but I've never actually known of any of them until I talked to you."
When I was active duty in the Air Force years and years ago I knew a girl exactly like this. She ended up getting pregnant from her supervisor 16 years her senior (overweight, balding, and not very good looking to begin with). He was two years away from retirement.
She was then going to marry some other sucker she worked with. Had him all conned she was going to marry him, and let him father the other guy's child. She was very very attractive. And looking for a meal ticket.
She lied to me for about four months saying the baby daddy was someone else. Which is understandable concerning the circumstances.
Long story short, she was 24 years old, and the real dad, her supervisor, was 40. They eventually got married, and he committed suicide.
She contacted me on Myspace probably 7 years ago. We wrote a couple of times back and forth. One of the comments she made to me was, "By the way I'm single for now, here is my number: 555-123-4567"
Of course I thought she was married still (having zero intentions at all of getting with her since she was evil, twisted and sick). She made another statement, "It's really a shame what happened to my husband"
Having no idea what she meant, I said something like "I want to know So and So's side of the story.
She responded back that he blew his brains out.
OMG. Good for you for dodging that bullet. Yikes.
As for the three qualities (if I had to choose the top three), I'd say compatibility, compassion, intelligence (and sex...because that's a given, right?). Maybe I've got too many "requirements." lol By intelligence, I mean the same level as me...not Einstein.
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In Dynasty's defense, my own (half-caveman half-superhero) husband's response to OP's description of his girlfriend was: "Wow. She must be great in bed."
its what i thought when i read the original post! lol
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In Dynasty's defense, my own (half-caveman half-superhero) husband's response to OP's description of his girlfriend was: "Wow. She must be great in bed."
its what i thought when i read the original post! lol
That could be gender neutral though. The cooking and cleaning are stereotypically "women's work." But Dynasty does seem like a totally nice guy. One comment doesn't make someone a jerk, in my opinion.
And now I'm wondering if the great in bed thing must be the reason. lol
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In Dynasty's defense, my own (half-caveman half-superhero) husband's response to OP's description of his girlfriend was: "Wow. She must be great in bed."
its what i thought when i read the original post! lol
That could be gender neutral though. The cooking and cleaning are stereotypically "women's work." But Dynasty does seem like a totally nice guy. One comment doesn't make someone a jerk, in my opinion.
And now I'm wondering if the great in bed thing must be the reason. lol
Hilarious! I actually did not find Dynasty's comments offensive simply b/c most of us are commenting to try to help szymanski and to do so, we need to remain focused on that effort. Dynasty was not speaking for all men anymore than one woman's opinion is representative of her entire gender. What I inferred from Dynasty's post is szymanski MUST be getting somethings of great value out of the relationship. What these benefits are only he knows. But it would be extremely helpful szymanski commented more and clarified his experiences so we all better understand his situation.
@ szymanski: Do you mind sharing what benefits are you getting out of the relationship?
@ szymanski These are some great articles that can help you to see into a potential future with your partner. To me it sounds like there are many tell-tale warning signs worthy or your time to see clearly. Ask yourself how many if any apply to your relationship. Read them and let us know what you think.
http://www.shrink4men.com/2012/07/17/brass-balls-award-husband-sets-boundaries-with-slacker-wife-and-tells-her-to-grow-up-and-get-a-job/
http://www.shrink4men.com/2011/10/05/should-you-marry-her-relationship-red-flags-for-men-part-one/
Good luck and keep us posted.
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Very entertaining links..well entertaining if it were not so tragic.
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In Dynasty's defense, my own (half-caveman half-superhero) husband's response to OP's description of his girlfriend was: "Wow. She must be great in bed."
its what i thought when i read the original post! lol
That could be gender neutral though. The cooking and cleaning are stereotypically "women's work." But Dynasty does seem like a totally nice guy. One comment doesn't make someone a jerk, in my opinion.
And now I'm wondering if the great in bed thing must be the reason. lol
Hilarious! I actually did not find Dynasty's comments offensive simply b/c most of us are commenting to try to help szymanski and to do so, we need to remain focused on that effort. Dynasty was not speaking for all men anymore than one woman's opinion is representative of her entire gender. What I inferred from Dynasty's post is szymanski MUST be getting somethings of great value out of the relationship. What these benefits are only he knows. But it would be extremely helpful szymanski commented more and clarified his experiences so we all better understand his situation.
@ szymanski: Do you mind sharing what benefits are you getting out of the relationship?
@ szymanski These are some great articles that can help you to see into a potential future with your partner. To me it sounds like there are many tell-tale warning signs worthy or your time to see clearly. Ask yourself how many if any apply to your relationship. Read them and let us know what you think.
http://www.shrink4men.com/2012/07/17/brass-balls-award-husband-sets-boundaries-with-slacker-wife-and-tells-her-to-grow-up-and-get-a-job/
http://www.shrink4men.com/2011/10/05/should-you-marry-her-relationship-red-flags-for-men-part-one/
Good luck and keep us posted.
RE: benefits - I would say the normal benefits that come w/companionship but in truth, nothing special. I'd say I've had past gfs treat me better.
I will read those links.
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In response to the OP...this relationship does not sound like one that is going to make you happy long term. The biggest red flag for me is the lack of a consistent job over a 5-year period. I realize that some people have had it rough in this economy through no fault of their own but that is still a huge red flag. Has she had any kind of job since she has met you? If not, I would be very suspicious that you are being "used" to some (or a lot) extent.
I think it is perfectly reasonable for you to lay out what your life goals are and what you need from her to help with that. She doesn't necessarily need to be on board with ER, but make it clear that you expect her to pull her fair share with expenses, and that you feel like right now you are subsidizing her lifestyle. Then, stop subsidizing her lifestyle--don't pay for activities that were her idea (pay for your half, but she has to pay for herself). It make not be fun for her to hear, but if she does genuinely love you, it may be exactly the wake-up call she needs. If she is just hoping you'll be her meal ticket, learning that you aren't interested in that role will likely make her go looking elsewhere.
Overall though, this really does sound like a relationship you might be better off ending. Definitely be proactive about figuring it out, don't rush into a wedding but don't drag out the decision process either.
Hi Cats.
Let's see...
She's had one job that she was in for maybe 4 months & was let go. She's had a contract job & that ended w/no offer to stay on. She's had one job that she was in for 2 months & was let go.
She's had interviews lately but no offers. She's been applying for anything & everything. Overall, I'd say the calls for interviews have really slowed. Kind of worrisome from my perspective.
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So why are you staying?
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So why are you staying?
My guess would be some for some sort of companionship. Not necessarily healthy beneficial companionship, but companionship.
And not wanting to be The Bad Guy. "I need to be there for her and rescue her from this situation." And the next time, and the next time again, and the next time after that.
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Being let go and not being kept on could be a sign of the soft economy but I would be really concerned that it is a sign of poor work habits/personality which you would then be partnering with.
Who you marry/partner with is a decision that will affect your happiness like no other.
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Dude, just stop. Nobody was defending the division of labor the OP described. Your original statement was insulting in part because it was extremely gendered.
It seems that you feel that the OP should be denied valuable advice and perspective in the name of protecting you own (an arms-length reader) sensibilities. The OP might as well have written his story to a Dear Abby column and received a politically correct response that wouldn't insult anyone and offer no real help.
You try and imply that you would defend both sides of the coin with phrases like "extremely gendered" but no one is fooled for a second that the objections to Dynasty's words are a one way street; that if he made a blunt statement about a woman's needs instead of a man's, this thread would be nothing but a field of crickets.
The beauty of a forum is that thoughts can be expressed freely and truthfully, and anonymous advisors don't have any fear of needing to filter their words to accommodate people that are too easily offended for no reason.
When you unjustly cry words of misogyny, faux-indignation, and try to stifle people, you're attempting to censor a free forum of discussion and turn it into a politically correct newspaper column, making it practically worthless. I would kindly ask you to, dude, just stop.
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I think we all tend to stay in bad relationships too long for fear of hurting the other person, when in reality the wound gets deeper the longer we stay. If she's not for you and she wants kids, you need to let her go so she can have them with the right person for her. It's not just what is best for you; it's what is best for her.
My ex is so much happier with his wife and I am so much happier with my husband. All those wasted years we spent trying to make something work that was never going to work. Pity and guilt and sorrow kept us together. Horrible way to live. So great to be on the other side of it.
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The whole situation sort of reminds me of this video (http://vimeo.com/channels/499221/53044579) (slightly NSFW because drugs)
Sounds like OP needs to "go over to her place" and see what her deal really is. Seems like nobody knows the whole story right now.
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In Dynasty's defense, my own (half-caveman half-superhero) husband's response to OP's description of his girlfriend was: "Wow. She must be great in bed."
its what i thought when i read the original post! lol
That could be gender neutral though. The cooking and cleaning are stereotypically "women's work." But Dynasty does seem like a totally nice guy. One comment doesn't make someone a jerk, in my opinion.
And now I'm wondering if the great in bed thing must be the reason. lol
Hilarious! I actually did not find Dynasty's comments offensive simply b/c most of us are commenting to try to help szymanski and to do so, we need to remain focused on that effort. Dynasty was not speaking for all men anymore than one woman's opinion is representative of her entire gender. What I inferred from Dynasty's post is szymanski MUST be getting somethings of great value out of the relationship. What these benefits are only he knows. But it would be extremely helpful szymanski commented more and clarified his experiences so we all better understand his situation.
@ szymanski: Do you mind sharing what benefits are you getting out of the relationship?
@ szymanski These are some great articles that can help you to see into a potential future with your partner. To me it sounds like there are many tell-tale warning signs worthy or your time to see clearly. Ask yourself how many if any apply to your relationship. Read them and let us know what you think.
http://www.shrink4men.com/2012/07/17/brass-balls-award-husband-sets-boundaries-with-slacker-wife-and-tells-her-to-grow-up-and-get-a-job/
http://www.shrink4men.com/2011/10/05/should-you-marry-her-relationship-red-flags-for-men-part-one/
Good luck and keep us posted.
RE: benefits - I would say the normal benefits that come w/companionship but in truth, nothing special. I'd say I've had past gfs treat me better.
I will read those links.
@ szymanski:
Why do you put up with your girlfriend?
What needs does being with such a woman meet in you?
Have you openly and calmly share all of your concerns (without blaming)? Ask her what ideas does she have on how the two of you can do together to make things better. Remember you are both a team, you are attempting to solve the situation, and not attack each other.
Being in a healthy relationship requires honest communication and you both need to be able to communicate when you have hurt one another and be heard. If you tell your girlfriend your concerns, how she's hurt you and she responds by: a) denying that you have feelings, b) minimizing your feelings, and/or c) turning the focus onto her feelings and how she's really the injured party; just break it off. Do not waste one more second of your precious life on her. When a girlfriend responds in one or all of these ways, the message is clear: Your concerns/feelings do not matter and you do not matter. You exist to serve and make her feel good about herself and nothing else. If she cannot acknowledge you as an equal being, that your feelings, beliefs, opinions and rights are just as important as her own, she is not looking for an intimate relationship; she is interested in a service relationship. One guess as to who the servant is in this equation.
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Dude, just stop. Nobody was defending the division of labor the OP described. Your original statement was insulting in part because it was extremely gendered.
It seems that you feel that the OP should be denied valuable advice and perspective in the name of protecting you own (an arms-length reader) sensibilities. The OP might as well have written his story to a Dear Abby column and received a politically correct response that wouldn't insult anyone and offer no real help.
You try and imply that you would defend both sides of the coin with phrases like "extremely gendered" but no one is fooled for a second that the objections to Dynasty's words are a one way street; that if he made a blunt statement about a woman's needs instead of a man's, this thread would be nothing but a field of crickets.
The beauty of a forum is that thoughts can be expressed freely and truthfully, and anonymous advisors don't have any fear of needing to filter their words to accommodate people that are too easily offended for no reason.
When you unjustly cry words of misogyny, faux-indignation, and try to stifle people, you're attempting to censor a free forum of discussion and turn it into a politically correct newspaper column, making it practically worthless. I would kindly ask you to, dude, just stop.
Faux-indignation? Seriously? How do you know how the poster you are addressing really feels? But keep telling women how they should think and feel, because that isn't misogynist. Your post just proved her point.
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The whole situation sort of reminds me of this video (http://vimeo.com/channels/499221/53044579) (slightly NSFW because drugs)
Sounds like OP needs to "go over to her place" and see what her deal really is. Seems like nobody knows the whole story right now.
This is a pretty sobering video. There really are people out there like the two who were portrayed in this short.
In regards to the OP, I would hope he's been to her place during their 8 months together. Otherwise, he's got a lot of explaining to do!
I agree, I think we're only hearing about 20% of the story. But I have a feeling, the other 80% isn't going to paint a much rosier picture.
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RE: benefits - I would say the normal benefits that come w/companionship but in truth, nothing special. I'd say I've had past gfs treat me better.
I will read those links.
Could you run us through a typical evening or weekend with your gf?
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in my opinion, whenever someone asks the question "am I being unreasonable", the answer is [almost] always... yes
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I'd say I've had past gfs treat me better.
TBH I skimmed over most of the thread before posting. Just went back and this stuck out to me. Why settle? Especially if you know you can do better.
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Now 2 May.
So what happened? Poor thing.
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Be yourself around her. Tell her you choose not to spend money on fancy dinners, nice cars, expensive ring/wedding, big house, etc. Tell her what kind of life you are planning to live, starting now and all the way through. Let her know you are willing to adjust your plans as part of a relationship, but not live a "normal" life. Stop being the bank and start expecting her to participate fully in the financial aspects of life. If it's not "necessary", then you don't pay for it. Have the "children" conversation and be honest, for her sake as well as your own.
After that discussion and those changes I bet the outcome will become clear. If not then you have some more thinking to do, but right now you have actions you can take without having to decide where it will go.
I agree! My gut is wanting to tell you to run far and fast from this relationship, but I know we don't have the full context of the story, and obviously you still care about her if you're asking for advice. If you really want to try to make it work with this girl, be honest. Tell her about your financial goals and that you will have to cut back on entertainment spending. Then, when plans come up on the weekend, just say, 'I just made a really big loan payment so we're going to have to find some free/cheap entertainment ideas this weekend.' I understand wanting to pay for her drinks or meal as a treat, but if you find yourself doing it almost every time you go out then she's learning to become dependent on your money for fun. Ask yourself if you can/want live with that long term. As far as big ticket items like travel, plan a trip and split the costs down the middle. Calculate how much it will cost and make your expectations clear. Tell her how much you will both have to save per month to be able to afford the trip you want to take or the house you want to buy in x number of months/years.
James is right, once you make your expectations clear about how you want to spend your money and you stick to it, you will see more clearly who she is as a person and whether or not you can live with that long term.
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I agree with the vast majority on this site: get rid of any significant other (regardless of gender) who is dragging you down (especially financially).
I'm fairly sure that the OP is not making false promises and similar stuff, but the thread reminded me of this question on Quora: http://www.quora.com/Life-Advice/How-normal-is-it-for-a-husband-with-a-six-figure-salary-to-yell-at-his-under-employed-wife-when-she-asks-him-to-spot-her-a-20
It's just hard to read these responses (and 100% agree with the rational responses) and also have this background (of research + volunteering) in domestic abuse situations, where the husband turns into a controlling, tightfisted monster after marriage (and a wife-beater).
I think the best choice would be for the OP and his girlfriend to move on due to fundamental incompatibility.
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I have to agree that you need to do some serious deep thinking about this relationship. Unless you want to be supporting a SAHM in the lifestyle to which she would like to become accustomed of course. In which case that's fine.
But I also think you should sit down with her and have an extremely serious conversation about money and your prioroties and hers and how, if at all, they can merge. You really don't want to be regretting this decision later in your life.
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I think you have to be on the same page about money in order to get married and raise a family.
Who earns what... that doesn't matter, it will all even out in the wash. But you have to be using the same play book.
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***OK - update (not much of one)***
I've had some discussions w/her. Mixed results. Basically, told her my concerns related to spending & her "habit" of sitting around all day not doing much. She responded by saying I'm too focused on $ & not surprisingly didn't like that I see her as being lazy.
She bought some groceries and cooked 1 meal. We did a weekend trip - she paid for the hotel one night (which wasn't cheap) + a few of her drinks & one of mine. I covered the rest.
Told her she wouldn't be going w/me to NY to visit family b/c I couldn't pay her way. She didn't like that but still seems to believe she will be going.
Her daily routine doesn't seem to be changing. She has had some interviews & a job could be coming soon. Still feel the push of ring, house, living together, etc. but I'm not in a hurry.
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Sounds like it's going to be an uphill battle. It's good that she's started doing some things but on the other hand, it seems a bit grudging and she isn't genuinely on board. Woohoo - she bought some groceries and cooked a meal. Most of us manage to do that (and more) every week while holding down a full time job. I also suspect that if you succumb to the pushing - once she gets what she wants and you're trapped in a commitment, she'll be back to her old self, and you'd be in a position to lose half your stuff.
Sorry if I sound negative, and of course, I don't know the whole story. I think many of us are still curious as to what is really keeping you in the relationship. I guess I just don't understand, as I'm the sort who is more inclined to find someone whose default position is to want to contribute, without having to be asked to do so.
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She responded by saying I'm too focused on $.
Blame shifting baby! She's switching things around and trying to make this YOUR problem (your fault, you're being judgmental...), not hers.
Remember the first post I made in this thread about the girl I was with for 8 months who your girl reminded me of? She did this too. Said I was too focused on money...
Told her she wouldn't be going w/me to NY to visit family b/c I couldn't pay her way. She didn't like that but still seems to believe she will be going.
Is she buying herself a ticket? Or thinks that you'll come to your senses and take her anyways?
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Oh good grief. Stop it. Just stop it.
Life is short. The biggest decision you can make will be who you partner with. It will determine a large part of your daily happiness and the happiness of your children.
You need to be 100% in the relationship because things have a future and it looks damn good. Unless you can say this, get out.
This is one person of many. Really. There are others who will want to be with you and vice versa.
We create, promote and allow the things that happen in our lives. Why are you allowing this to continue when you have doubts? Might be time for you to focus on that question and not whether the relationship is workable.
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Szymanski,
I know you came here looking for some answers but the truth of the matter is no one on this entire site is qualified to tell you what to do with your relationship (including myself). Financial advice, hell yea, some really smart people tend to hang around this place. Learn what you can and carry on accordingly.
Now that I've dismissed everyone on this site from relationship counselling, I'm going to be a hypocrite.
Your relationship concerns might be warranted, or they might not. As some have alluded to, communication is key in any relationship. Talk with her, get to know the reasoning behind her behaviors, and more importantly the reasoning behind yours in regards to her. Know her to the core but make sure you know yourself thoroughly first. Then, and only then, can you start to really assess things.
Do what makes you happy. There isn't a soul on here who knows if she still gives you butterflies in your tummy, but damn brother, if she does, far be it from anyone to tell you to run.
I wish you luck in whatever decision you happen to make.
-Arbor
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If you are making a decision based on the butterflies in your stomach test please wait for two years. People get this feeling in the EARLY stages of love and they also get it in the face of impending danger. There is more to a lifelong partnership than butterflies can foretell and, on the facts, impending danger seems more likely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterflies_in_the_stomach
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Szymanski,
I know you came here looking for some answers but the truth of the matter is no one on this entire site is qualified to tell you what to do with your relationship (including myself). Financial advice, hell yea, some really smart people tend to hang around this place. Learn what you can and carry on accordingly.
Now that I've dismissed everyone on this site from relationship counselling, I'm going to be a hypocrite.
Your relationship concerns might be warranted, or they might not. As some have alluded to, communication is key in any relationship. Talk with her, get to know the reasoning behind her behaviors, and more importantly the reasoning behind yours in regards to her. Know her to the core but make sure you know yourself thoroughly first. Then, and only then, can you start to really assess things.
Do what makes you happy. There isn't a soul on here who knows if she still gives you butterflies in your tummy, but damn brother, if she does, far be it from anyone to tell you to run.
I wish you luck in whatever decision you happen to make.
-Arbor
Everyone here knows the OP will make up his own mind and he asked for advice. Besides, when people see the warning signs, they are just trying to be helpful. I'm thinking Dynasty is almost having flashbacks, poor guy.
Szymanski: The most optimistic outcome I perceive is the poster who said that this is going to be an uphill battle. You know what the least optimistic predictions are. I guess you have to decide if it's worth it. Good luck.
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I agree...why would you stay with someone who cannot and will not pull her weight in a relationship? I would rather be lonely and happy rather than with someone and unhappy. If you choose to stay with her, this is going to be the norm in your relationship...all this angst, her not working, her using you as a meal ticket, and then when kids are involved....ugh! Not a good situation for children to come into. I have known women like this and they really "expect" a man to take care of them! I work with my husband as a team....we are able to take care of each other, communicate, and work towards our dream together. I work part time and take care of the house, cleaning, and yard work sometimes so he does not have to after a full day at his job.
This whole relationship that you have is really one sided....only you seem to be working at it and supporting it financially. Run while you still can :)
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I know you came here looking for some answers but the truth of the matter is no one on this entire site is qualified to tell you what to do with your relationship (including myself)...
Your relationship concerns might be warranted, or they might not...
To me this is the crux. We, obviously only have your original question and a couple of posts, and in all you seem to have a lackadaisical interest in keeping the relationship moving forward. I could easily write a post making the Mr. seem like a lazy drain on the finances, but I could just as quickly give a list of 10 excellent qualities and reasons why I love him, want to spend my life with him and don't ultimately mind spending a few extra dollars on him than I would just by myself.
Can you do the same? Seriously, multiple people have asked, and I don't think they were all being rhetorical: why are you with your girlfriend? What are her good qualities, why do you want to continue to be with her. It's probably not necessary to answer that here, but you should really think about it, could you make a list of 5 awesome things about her?
Your original question of are you being unreasonable has been unanimously answered as 'No,' but it doesn't really solve your issue. I also hope that you find a solution that brings you happiness.
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Hi Cats.
Let's see...
She's had one job that she was in for maybe 4 months & was let go. She's had a contract job & that ended w/no offer to stay on. She's had one job that she was in for 2 months & was let go.
She's had interviews lately but no offers. She's been applying for anything & everything. Overall, I'd say the calls for interviews have really slowed. Kind of worrisome from my perspective.
I'd agree this is worrisome. One thing to consider if you guys are talking kids is that you typically have to have been in a job for at least 12 months to qualify for even unpaid maternity leave under FMLA. It sounds like her track record of holding a job for 12+ months is poor/non-existent. This means that unless she suddenly changes that, childbirth will almost definitely mean that she loses/quits whatever job she is in. Then childcare will probably cost more than any job she can find (I'm guessing, as it sounds like whatever qualifications she has are not in high demand). So you are probably looking at AT LEAST 4 years of her being a full-time SAHM (until kiddo #1 heads off to kindergarten), at which point it's going to be hard for her to get back into the workforce even if she wants to. How do you feel about that? Basically, given the biological clock constraints, she's got a very limited amount of time to get it together if making some level of financial contribution is a requirement for you.
Your comment that you've had other GFs treat you better is pretty telling. I don't always agree with my boyfriend about finances or other important stuff, but if I could honestly say that I had known better treatment from someone else, that would be a dealbreaker. It's important to feel respected and valued in a relationship. If you really meant that statement, you need to move on.