Author Topic: Am I being unreasonable?  (Read 35832 times)

Dee18

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #50 on: April 23, 2013, 12:48:28 PM »
Definitely time to explain to her, as clearly as you did here, what kind of future you want.  And, meanwhile, be very careful about birth control.

NumberCruncher

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #51 on: April 23, 2013, 12:59:51 PM »
Quote from: Jane

I have a feeling you meant it the first way, though.

Not really, but if it makes you feel better I sure did!

What really makes me mad is I think if anything szymanski should be the one who stays home all day, randomly applying for a job or two on the computer, and watch TV.

Then when his girlfriend gets home from work, she should cook him dinner 99% of the time, and then do 99% of the cleaning in the house.  After all that is done, they can then go run errands together during the evenings, or on the weekends when they can both be together to run errands.

In between szymanski eating the meals the girlfriend prepares for him, and her cleaning the house, he can dream up expensive vacations, and swanky restaurants to go to for dinner and drinks. You know, nothing less than $300 dollars a month these dinners and drinks should cost the girlfriend.

Finally, szymanski should be really concerned with having a child, getting married, and moving into a newer bigger house. Like soon! Like in the next six months soon.

And he'll be a stay at home dad.  And since taking care of the kid is going to be so exhausting and tiring all day, his new wife, when she gets home from working all day,  can make szymanski dinner, and clean the house too.

Does this sound better?

Dude, just stop. Nobody was defending the division of labor the OP described. Your original statement was insulting in part because it was extremely gendered.

A lot of the posters here read your first message like this:

1) She cooks (for him, at all times so he never has to)
2) She cleans (all of the things, his and hers, so he doesn't have to)
3) She has sex (with him, only for his enjoyment and at all times he requests it. no icky cuddling or talking after)


Because English and stereotypes. If you meant it to be a universal "what people look for in a relationship," write it that way.

homeymomma

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #52 on: April 23, 2013, 01:09:10 PM »
Wow. I gave up reading the responses, and I can see that they got a little crazy. It doesn't seem like you are in it for the long haul. As a stay-at-home mom, I know all about being supported by my spouse. I supported him for a while when he wasn't able to make much money right out of school. Now I stay home with our baby and he makes all the $$.
If sounds like you are feeling very resentful of her expectations of you. If you can't communicate that to her, then your relationship may need to end. If you are able to communicate with her, and you together agree on a timeline you are both comfortable with, then maybe you'll be able to work it out. No, weddings don't have to be expensive, and no, you don't HAVE to have a baby before you turn 35, but most importantly you have to decide what you both want together as a couple, then, most importantly, figure out how to get there TOGETHER. Marrying someone who expects to do all the dreaming and planning and that the other person will simply finance whatever they think up is not sustainable. Not only will it probably end in bankruptcy or at least a ton of debt, it will also likely end in divorce. Whether you want to bring kids into that type of non-communicative environment should be a no-brainer.

Good luck. I know we all post things like this when we are feeling most frustrated with our partner. I'm sure your girlfriend is a lovely person. I hope you can communicate with her so you can make a life plan together that you will both be happy and active participants in.

davisgang90

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #53 on: April 23, 2013, 02:04:26 PM »
In the words of the Crocodile Hunter "Danger, Danger Danger!" (Did you hear the accent?) You need to move on quickly.  She wants a sugar daddy and not a MMM protege.

She sounds like a hot mess.

PS: I do 99% of the cleaning and cooking in my house.  No comment on the sex.

Miamoo

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #54 on: April 23, 2013, 02:45:34 PM »
All comments aside (and I've read most of them - yeah she sounds like a hot mess - future disaster looking for a place to happen and yours is the place)

Stuff that crossed my mind . . .

Have you met her parents?  What are their conditions?  Siblings?  Have you met any?  Often times you can figure out a person's values by learning about their upbringing and how their brothers and sisters have fared.  Why is she a 'Princess'?

Has she met your family?  If so, not mentioned that I saw.  How do her values and/or her family's values compare with how you were brought up? 

Must totally agree with Dr. Vibrissae!  There is a 3 month probation period for most jobs.  And there's a reason when someone is dismissed after 3 months or less.

So sorry but I'm gonna go with 'RUN FORREST RUN' keep going and don't look back.

When the time comes the perfect woman will find you, you don't have to look, she'll just be there.

Honest!


Miamoo

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #55 on: April 23, 2013, 03:10:39 PM »
Perhaps (with Szymanski in mind) a new thread should be started? How did you meet your spouse/partner and how did you know that he/she was the one?  I'm older so have had one divorce (but married at 17 - how stupid was that?  My kids are in their 30's now), re-married at 42 (13 years ago) and wish I'd met this man oxoxoxox many years ago.

Well on our way to a comfortable - but not early - retirement.

Is there already a thread like this?  For us 'Elderberries'?

SwordGuy

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #56 on: April 23, 2013, 03:18:19 PM »
Run like hell.

BPA

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #57 on: April 23, 2013, 03:49:01 PM »
It's only going to get worse.  Trust me.

A member of my family is like the person Dynasty described and she suckers men in with the charm and then controls them completely.  She has been pregnant six times by five different men and once callously laughed to me as she flushed her birth control pills down the toilet, "X says he doesn't want kids yet.  But he'd be thrilled if I got pregnant."  She views men as meal tickets and decided she didn't want to work, so was flushing her bc pills.  Her husband "stuck it out" and wound up assaulted with a hammer. 

Dynasty's characterization of what men want out of a relationship is certainly not what all men want and might be why he wound up in a relationship with someone like that in the first place.  She will pretend to be everything you want at the beginning. He's lucky he got out and he's not kidding about the potential trapping by these particular sorts of women. 

I did find his comment misogynist. And I feel lucky that my boyfriend does not care about the cooking or cleaning aspect. Cooking and cleaning are no more a woman's jobs than a man's. As for the sex, damn...I care about that.

Scooter H

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #58 on: April 23, 2013, 04:58:04 PM »
Sounds like a good time to get out. My ex played something similar and two wks before our wedding she jumped ship. I had bought a car (horrible idea) and paid for some of her nursing school. She didn't have much of a job going to school so I took care of a lot of bills and extra things. After all was said and done I lost a shitload of money. Thankfully the car thing worked out and that took care of itself but that alone cost me around 3k ish. I learned a lot about people and money from that!

From my experience I'd punch out as mean as that sounds. Good luck!!

Dynasty

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #59 on: April 23, 2013, 07:13:34 PM »
It's only going to get worse.  Trust me.

A member of my family is like the person Dynasty described and she suckers men in with the charm and then controls them completely.

Which one? I described three.

The girl I dated for eight months who wanted to live with me at day 90.

The girl I hung out with for a week and a half, and six and half weeks later got the protection order put in force from a judge for a year. So total of two months with her.

And my friend's sister.

Dynasty's characterization of what men want out of a relationship is certainly not what all men want and might be why he wound up in a relationship with someone like that in the first place.  She will pretend to be everything you want at the beginning. He's lucky he got out and he's not kidding about the potential trapping by these particular sorts of women. 

I did find his comment misogynist. And I feel lucky that my boyfriend does not care about the cooking or cleaning aspect. Cooking and cleaning are no more a woman's jobs than a man's. As for the sex, damn...I care about that.

Okay. First of all. I've never "ended" up with a woman who's cooked and cleaned for me. And second, although it could be interpreted as such I said cooking and cleaning are a woman's job. That was not my intent or my meaning.

And since just about everyone here except Fletch and KulshanGirl think's I'm an misogynist. I'm not too interested in explaining too much more of my meaning behind the three things I listed as men finding important in a mate.  That being said, I apologize for offending anyone.  And now that being said, let me explain some more.

I've had the pleasure of dating, and knowing some really interesting women in my life. And what I mean about the whole cooking and cleaning thing was, which will apply to men as well, is a MAN, or a woman, who cannot cook or clean lacks simple skills to be able to take care of themselves.  That is it. And I never said anything about liking to cook or clean. I hate cleaning. I hate doing dishes. But I do it. Because I can take care of myself. And the woman I've known in my life romantically, and on a platonic level who do not cook (for themselves), and live on take out food, and who do not clean (their own apartment or house) and live in filth are literally a mess emotionally.  And this would also apply to couple of male friends I've had in my life as well.

Luckily for me, my current girlfriend of the past year and a half not only keeps her apartment clean and tidy, but she also cooks really well. Plus, she likes to have sex with me.  In addition to that, when she is over at my house I'll cook for her. Imagine that!

Now, getting back on topic with the intent of the OP starting this thread. I meant two things with my three criteria. 1) the sex must be incredible with this woman. And 2) why would a guy want to be with a woman who cannot take care of herself?  That is all.

And now the cynic in me is going to close with someone is now either going to write or think.. "Well, if that's what you meant, that's what you would of written. I think you really meant such and such..."

Good luck OP. Keep us posted.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #60 on: April 23, 2013, 07:28:50 PM »
A member of my family is like the person Dynasty described and she suckers men in with the charm and then controls them completely.  She has been pregnant six times by five different men and once callously laughed to me as she flushed her birth control pills down the toilet, "X says he doesn't want kids yet.  But he'd be thrilled if I got pregnant."  She views men as meal tickets and decided she didn't want to work, so was flushing her bc pills.  Her husband "stuck it out" and wound up assaulted with a hammer. 
This woman has a future in trashy reality tv... you couldn't make this up if you tried. Amazing that dudes still fall for it after so many kids from different fathers. Unless she lies about where they came from, I guess.


BPA

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #61 on: April 23, 2013, 08:08:32 PM »
A member of my family is like the person Dynasty described and she suckers men in with the charm and then controls them completely.  She has been pregnant six times by five different men and once callously laughed to me as she flushed her birth control pills down the toilet, "X says he doesn't want kids yet.  But he'd be thrilled if I got pregnant."  She views men as meal tickets and decided she didn't want to work, so was flushing her bc pills.  Her husband "stuck it out" and wound up assaulted with a hammer. 
This woman has a future in trashy reality tv... you couldn't make this up if you tried. Amazing that dudes still fall for it after so many kids from different fathers. Unless she lies about where they came from, I guess.

She is intelligent and good looking.  She picks men whom she thinks make a lot of money and are less intelligent and attractive than she is.  One friend of mine said to me, "You hear that these people exist, but I've never actually known of any of them until I talked to you." 

She once spent the $80k equity from the marital home partying with some dude who was on American Idol and his band.  She was 35 years old and had three children at the time, and while her husband made less than $100k/year and she didn't work, she was jetting here and there to party with the band.  Her husband stuck his head in the sand the entire time.  I guess it was a defense mechanism.

Dynasty:  I didn't call you a misogynist, but your statement was.  Sometimes people post stuff and they didn't intend for it to come out the way it did.  That doesn't mean that the offending comment is suddenly innocuous.  That so many women commented on it shows that the comment was offensive.  I don't think you are a bad person based on one comment (crap, you have my sympathy for dating those women), but you can't post something so provocative and expect people not to respond.  That's not the way the "free world" works.

mlipps

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #62 on: April 23, 2013, 08:19:15 PM »

Dynasty:  I didn't call you a misogynist, but your statement was.  Sometimes people post stuff and they didn't intend for it to come out the way it did.  That doesn't mean that the offending comment is suddenly innocuous.  That so many women commented on it shows that the comment was offensive.  I don't think you are a bad person based on one comment (crap, you have my sympathy for dating those women), but you can't post something so provocative and expect people not to respond.  That's not the way the "free world" works.

Yup. And actually, I was more offended at the characterization that men are only looking for 3 things in a relationship than the implication that women should provide them (and yes, I'm a woman). I immediately thought of my wonderful fiance and all the things that go into our successful relationship and was offended for HIM that anyone would think all men's motivations fit that idea.

Dynasty

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #63 on: April 23, 2013, 08:51:29 PM »

She is intelligent and good looking.  She picks men whom she thinks make a lot of money and are less intelligent and attractive than she is.  One friend of mine said to me, "You hear that these people exist, but I've never actually known of any of them until I talked to you." 


When I was active duty in the Air Force years and years ago I knew a girl exactly like this. She ended up getting pregnant from her supervisor 16 years her senior (overweight, balding, and not very good looking to begin with). He was two years away from retirement.

She was then going to marry some other sucker she worked with. Had him all conned she was going to marry him, and let him father the other guy's child. She was very very attractive. And looking for a meal ticket.

She lied to me for about four months saying the baby daddy was someone else. Which is understandable concerning the circumstances.

Long story short, she was 24 years old, and the real dad, her supervisor, was 40. They eventually got married, and he committed suicide.

She contacted me on Myspace probably 7 years ago. We wrote a couple of times back and forth. One of the comments she made to me was, "By the way I'm single for now, here is my number: 555-123-4567"

Of course I thought she was married still (having zero intentions at all of getting with her since she was evil, twisted and sick). She made another statement, "It's really a shame what happened to my husband"

Having no idea what she meant, I said something like "I want to know So and So's side of the story.

She responded back that he blew his brains out.


Dynasty

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #64 on: April 23, 2013, 08:57:52 PM »

Dynasty:  I didn't call you a misogynist, but your statement was.  Sometimes people post stuff and they didn't intend for it to come out the way it did.  That doesn't mean that the offending comment is suddenly innocuous.  That so many women commented on it shows that the comment was offensive.  I don't think you are a bad person based on one comment (crap, you have my sympathy for dating those women), but you can't post something so provocative and expect people not to respond.  That's not the way the "free world" works.

I understand.

How about we all agree that is was nothing more than a provocative statement (easily misunderstood), and a great topic of discussion?

If the essence of a mate (assuming one is attracted to another person) could be broken down into three very important qualities, what would they be? 


mlipps

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #65 on: April 23, 2013, 09:36:28 PM »

Dynasty:  I didn't call you a misogynist, but your statement was.  Sometimes people post stuff and they didn't intend for it to come out the way it did.  That doesn't mean that the offending comment is suddenly innocuous.  That so many women commented on it shows that the comment was offensive.  I don't think you are a bad person based on one comment (crap, you have my sympathy for dating those women), but you can't post something so provocative and expect people not to respond.  That's not the way the "free world" works.

I understand.

How about we all agree that is was nothing more than a provocative statement (easily misunderstood), and a great topic of discussion?

If the essence of a mate (assuming one is attracted to another person) could be broken down into three very important qualities, what would they be?

Mutual respect, partnership, and communication.

cats

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #66 on: April 23, 2013, 11:07:58 PM »
In response to the OP...this relationship does not sound like one that is going to make you happy long term.  The biggest red flag for me is the lack of a consistent job over a 5-year period.  I realize that some people have had it rough in this economy through no fault of their own but that is still a huge red flag.  Has she had any kind of job since she has met you?  If not, I would be very suspicious that you are being "used" to some (or a lot) extent.

I think it is perfectly reasonable for you to lay out what your life goals are and what you need from her to help with that.  She doesn't necessarily need to be on board with ER, but make it clear that you expect her to pull her fair share with expenses, and that you feel like right now you are subsidizing her lifestyle. Then, stop subsidizing her lifestyle--don't pay for activities that were her idea (pay for your half, but she has to pay for herself).  It make not be fun for her to hear, but if she does genuinely love you, it may be exactly the wake-up call she needs.  If she is just hoping you'll be her meal ticket, learning that you aren't interested in that role will likely make her go looking elsewhere.

Overall though, this really does sound like a relationship you might be better off ending.  Definitely be proactive about figuring it out, don't rush into a wedding but don't drag out the decision process either.

pbkmaine

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #67 on: April 23, 2013, 11:13:53 PM »
In Dynasty's defense, my own (half-caveman half-superhero) husband's response to OP's description of his girlfriend was: "Wow. She must be great in bed."

BPA

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #68 on: April 24, 2013, 04:41:14 AM »

She is intelligent and good looking.  She picks men whom she thinks make a lot of money and are less intelligent and attractive than she is.  One friend of mine said to me, "You hear that these people exist, but I've never actually known of any of them until I talked to you." 


When I was active duty in the Air Force years and years ago I knew a girl exactly like this. She ended up getting pregnant from her supervisor 16 years her senior (overweight, balding, and not very good looking to begin with). He was two years away from retirement.

She was then going to marry some other sucker she worked with. Had him all conned she was going to marry him, and let him father the other guy's child. She was very very attractive. And looking for a meal ticket.

She lied to me for about four months saying the baby daddy was someone else. Which is understandable concerning the circumstances.

Long story short, she was 24 years old, and the real dad, her supervisor, was 40. They eventually got married, and he committed suicide.

She contacted me on Myspace probably 7 years ago. We wrote a couple of times back and forth. One of the comments she made to me was, "By the way I'm single for now, here is my number: 555-123-4567"

Of course I thought she was married still (having zero intentions at all of getting with her since she was evil, twisted and sick). She made another statement, "It's really a shame what happened to my husband"

Having no idea what she meant, I said something like "I want to know So and So's side of the story.

She responded back that he blew his brains out.

OMG.  Good for you for dodging that bullet.  Yikes. 

As for the three qualities (if I had to choose the top three), I'd say compatibility, compassion, intelligence (and sex...because that's a given, right?).  Maybe I've got too many "requirements."  lol  By intelligence, I mean the same level as me...not Einstein.

ace1224

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #69 on: April 24, 2013, 05:20:24 AM »
In Dynasty's defense, my own (half-caveman half-superhero) husband's response to OP's description of his girlfriend was: "Wow. She must be great in bed."
its what i thought when i read the original post! lol

BPA

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #70 on: April 24, 2013, 11:19:03 AM »
In Dynasty's defense, my own (half-caveman half-superhero) husband's response to OP's description of his girlfriend was: "Wow. She must be great in bed."
its what i thought when i read the original post! lol

That could be gender neutral though.  The cooking and cleaning are stereotypically "women's work."  But Dynasty does seem like a totally nice guy.  One comment doesn't make someone a jerk, in my opinion. 

And now I'm wondering if the great in bed thing must be the reason.  lol

momo

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #71 on: April 24, 2013, 02:18:54 PM »
In Dynasty's defense, my own (half-caveman half-superhero) husband's response to OP's description of his girlfriend was: "Wow. She must be great in bed."
its what i thought when i read the original post! lol

That could be gender neutral though.  The cooking and cleaning are stereotypically "women's work."  But Dynasty does seem like a totally nice guy.  One comment doesn't make someone a jerk, in my opinion. 

And now I'm wondering if the great in bed thing must be the reason.  lol

Hilarious! I actually did not find Dynasty's comments offensive simply b/c most of us are commenting to try to help szymanski and to do so, we need to remain focused on that effort. Dynasty was not speaking for all men anymore than one woman's opinion is representative of her entire gender. What I inferred from Dynasty's post is szymanski MUST be getting somethings of great value out of the relationship. What these benefits are only he knows. But it would be extremely helpful szymanski commented more and clarified his experiences so we all better understand his situation.

@ szymanski: Do you mind sharing what benefits are you getting out of the relationship?

@ szymanski These are some great articles that can help you to see into a potential future with your partner. To me it sounds like there are many tell-tale warning signs worthy or your time to see clearly. Ask yourself how many if any apply to your relationship. Read them and let us know what you think.

http://www.shrink4men.com/2012/07/17/brass-balls-award-husband-sets-boundaries-with-slacker-wife-and-tells-her-to-grow-up-and-get-a-job/
http://www.shrink4men.com/2011/10/05/should-you-marry-her-relationship-red-flags-for-men-part-one/

Good luck and keep us posted.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2013, 04:08:09 PM by StashtasticMomo »

happy

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #72 on: April 24, 2013, 11:40:18 PM »
Very entertaining links..well entertaining if it were not so tragic.

szymanski

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #73 on: April 25, 2013, 03:58:14 AM »
In Dynasty's defense, my own (half-caveman half-superhero) husband's response to OP's description of his girlfriend was: "Wow. She must be great in bed."
its what i thought when i read the original post! lol

That could be gender neutral though.  The cooking and cleaning are stereotypically "women's work."  But Dynasty does seem like a totally nice guy.  One comment doesn't make someone a jerk, in my opinion. 

And now I'm wondering if the great in bed thing must be the reason.  lol

Hilarious! I actually did not find Dynasty's comments offensive simply b/c most of us are commenting to try to help szymanski and to do so, we need to remain focused on that effort. Dynasty was not speaking for all men anymore than one woman's opinion is representative of her entire gender. What I inferred from Dynasty's post is szymanski MUST be getting somethings of great value out of the relationship. What these benefits are only he knows. But it would be extremely helpful szymanski commented more and clarified his experiences so we all better understand his situation.

@ szymanski: Do you mind sharing what benefits are you getting out of the relationship?

@ szymanski These are some great articles that can help you to see into a potential future with your partner. To me it sounds like there are many tell-tale warning signs worthy or your time to see clearly. Ask yourself how many if any apply to your relationship. Read them and let us know what you think.

http://www.shrink4men.com/2012/07/17/brass-balls-award-husband-sets-boundaries-with-slacker-wife-and-tells-her-to-grow-up-and-get-a-job/
http://www.shrink4men.com/2011/10/05/should-you-marry-her-relationship-red-flags-for-men-part-one/

Good luck and keep us posted.

RE: benefits - I would say the normal benefits that come w/companionship but in truth, nothing special.  I'd say I've had past gfs treat me better.

I will read those links. 

szymanski

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #74 on: April 25, 2013, 04:01:51 AM »
In response to the OP...this relationship does not sound like one that is going to make you happy long term.  The biggest red flag for me is the lack of a consistent job over a 5-year period.  I realize that some people have had it rough in this economy through no fault of their own but that is still a huge red flag.  Has she had any kind of job since she has met you?  If not, I would be very suspicious that you are being "used" to some (or a lot) extent.

I think it is perfectly reasonable for you to lay out what your life goals are and what you need from her to help with that.  She doesn't necessarily need to be on board with ER, but make it clear that you expect her to pull her fair share with expenses, and that you feel like right now you are subsidizing her lifestyle. Then, stop subsidizing her lifestyle--don't pay for activities that were her idea (pay for your half, but she has to pay for herself).  It make not be fun for her to hear, but if she does genuinely love you, it may be exactly the wake-up call she needs.  If she is just hoping you'll be her meal ticket, learning that you aren't interested in that role will likely make her go looking elsewhere.

Overall though, this really does sound like a relationship you might be better off ending.  Definitely be proactive about figuring it out, don't rush into a wedding but don't drag out the decision process either.

Hi Cats.

Let's see...

She's had one job that she was in for maybe 4 months & was let go.  She's had a contract job & that ended w/no offer to stay on.  She's had one job that she was in for 2 months & was let go.

She's had interviews lately but no offers.  She's been applying for anything & everything.  Overall, I'd say the calls for interviews have really slowed.  Kind of worrisome from my perspective.

pbkmaine

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #75 on: April 25, 2013, 04:05:22 AM »
So why are you staying?

Dynasty

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #76 on: April 25, 2013, 09:08:57 AM »
So why are you staying?

My guess would be some for some sort of companionship. Not necessarily healthy beneficial companionship, but companionship.

And not wanting to be The Bad Guy.   "I need to be there for her and rescue her from this situation." And the next time, and the next time again, and the next time after that.

 

totoro

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #77 on: April 25, 2013, 10:01:41 AM »
Being let go and not being kept on could be a sign of the soft economy but I would be really concerned that it is a sign of poor work habits/personality which you would then be partnering with. 

Who you marry/partner with is a decision that will affect your happiness like no other. 


Peter

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #78 on: April 25, 2013, 11:25:24 AM »

Dude, just stop. Nobody was defending the division of labor the OP described. Your original statement was insulting in part because it was extremely gendered.


It seems that you feel that the OP should be denied valuable advice and perspective in the name of protecting you own (an arms-length reader) sensibilities. The OP might as well have written his story to a Dear Abby column and received a politically correct response that wouldn't insult anyone and offer no real help.

You try and imply that you would defend both sides of the coin with phrases like "extremely gendered" but no one is fooled for a second that the objections to Dynasty's words are a one way street; that if he made a blunt statement about a woman's needs instead of a man's, this thread would be nothing but a field of crickets.

The beauty of a forum is that thoughts can be expressed freely and truthfully, and anonymous advisors don't have any fear of needing to filter their words to accommodate people that are too easily offended for no reason.

When you unjustly cry words of misogyny, faux-indignation, and try to stifle people, you're attempting to censor a free forum of discussion and turn it into a politically correct newspaper column, making it practically worthless. I would kindly ask you to, dude, just stop.

pbkmaine

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #79 on: April 25, 2013, 11:48:50 AM »
I think we all tend to stay in bad relationships too long for fear of hurting the other person, when in reality the wound gets deeper the longer we stay. If she's not for you and she wants kids, you need to let her go so she can have them with the right person for her. It's not just what is best for you; it's what is best for her.

My ex is so much happier with his wife and I am so much happier with my husband. All those wasted years we spent trying to make something work that was never going to work. Pity and guilt and sorrow kept us together. Horrible way to live. So great to be on the other side of it.

Russ

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #80 on: April 25, 2013, 12:28:25 PM »
The whole situation sort of reminds me of this video (slightly NSFW because drugs)

Sounds like OP needs to "go over to her place" and see what her deal really is. Seems like nobody knows the whole story right now.

momo

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #81 on: April 25, 2013, 01:10:31 PM »
In Dynasty's defense, my own (half-caveman half-superhero) husband's response to OP's description of his girlfriend was: "Wow. She must be great in bed."
its what i thought when i read the original post! lol

That could be gender neutral though.  The cooking and cleaning are stereotypically "women's work."  But Dynasty does seem like a totally nice guy.  One comment doesn't make someone a jerk, in my opinion. 

And now I'm wondering if the great in bed thing must be the reason.  lol

Hilarious! I actually did not find Dynasty's comments offensive simply b/c most of us are commenting to try to help szymanski and to do so, we need to remain focused on that effort. Dynasty was not speaking for all men anymore than one woman's opinion is representative of her entire gender. What I inferred from Dynasty's post is szymanski MUST be getting somethings of great value out of the relationship. What these benefits are only he knows. But it would be extremely helpful szymanski commented more and clarified his experiences so we all better understand his situation.

@ szymanski: Do you mind sharing what benefits are you getting out of the relationship?

@ szymanski These are some great articles that can help you to see into a potential future with your partner. To me it sounds like there are many tell-tale warning signs worthy or your time to see clearly. Ask yourself how many if any apply to your relationship. Read them and let us know what you think.

http://www.shrink4men.com/2012/07/17/brass-balls-award-husband-sets-boundaries-with-slacker-wife-and-tells-her-to-grow-up-and-get-a-job/
http://www.shrink4men.com/2011/10/05/should-you-marry-her-relationship-red-flags-for-men-part-one/

Good luck and keep us posted.

RE: benefits - I would say the normal benefits that come w/companionship but in truth, nothing special.  I'd say I've had past gfs treat me better.

I will read those links.

@ szymanski:

Why do you put up with your girlfriend?
What needs does being with such a woman meet in you?

Have you openly and calmly share all of your concerns (without blaming)? Ask her what ideas does she have on how the two of you can do together to make things better. Remember you are both a team, you are attempting to solve the situation, and not attack each other.

Being in a healthy relationship requires honest communication and you both need to be able to communicate when you have hurt one another and be heard. If you tell your girlfriend your concerns, how she's hurt you and she responds by: a) denying that you have feelings, b) minimizing your feelings, and/or c) turning the focus onto her feelings and how she's really the injured party; just break it off. Do not waste one more second of your precious life on her. When a girlfriend responds in one or all of these ways, the message is clear: Your concerns/feelings do not matter and you do not matter. You exist to serve and make her feel good about herself and nothing else. If she cannot acknowledge you as an equal being, that your feelings, beliefs, opinions and rights are just as important as her own, she is not looking for an intimate relationship; she is interested in a service relationship. One guess as to who the servant is in this equation.

« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 04:56:56 PM by StashtasticMomo »

BPA

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #82 on: April 25, 2013, 01:33:39 PM »

Dude, just stop. Nobody was defending the division of labor the OP described. Your original statement was insulting in part because it was extremely gendered.


It seems that you feel that the OP should be denied valuable advice and perspective in the name of protecting you own (an arms-length reader) sensibilities. The OP might as well have written his story to a Dear Abby column and received a politically correct response that wouldn't insult anyone and offer no real help.

You try and imply that you would defend both sides of the coin with phrases like "extremely gendered" but no one is fooled for a second that the objections to Dynasty's words are a one way street; that if he made a blunt statement about a woman's needs instead of a man's, this thread would be nothing but a field of crickets.

The beauty of a forum is that thoughts can be expressed freely and truthfully, and anonymous advisors don't have any fear of needing to filter their words to accommodate people that are too easily offended for no reason.

When you unjustly cry words of misogyny, faux-indignation, and try to stifle people, you're attempting to censor a free forum of discussion and turn it into a politically correct newspaper column, making it practically worthless. I would kindly ask you to, dude, just stop.

Faux-indignation?  Seriously?  How do you know how the poster you are addressing really feels?  But keep telling women how they should think and feel, because that isn't misogynist.  Your post just proved her point.

Dynasty

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #83 on: April 25, 2013, 04:25:23 PM »
The whole situation sort of reminds me of this video (slightly NSFW because drugs)

Sounds like OP needs to "go over to her place" and see what her deal really is. Seems like nobody knows the whole story right now.

This is a pretty sobering video. There really are people out there like the two who were portrayed in this short.

In regards to the OP, I would hope he's been to her place during their 8 months together. Otherwise, he's got a lot of explaining to do!

I agree, I think we're only hearing about 20% of the story. But I have a feeling, the other 80% isn't going to paint a much rosier picture.

Dynasty

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #84 on: April 25, 2013, 04:29:39 PM »

RE: benefits - I would say the normal benefits that come w/companionship but in truth, nothing special.  I'd say I've had past gfs treat me better.

I will read those links.

Could you run us through a typical evening or weekend with your gf?

Joet

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #85 on: April 25, 2013, 04:46:18 PM »
in my opinion, whenever someone asks the question "am I being unreasonable", the answer is [almost] always... yes

Russ

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #86 on: April 25, 2013, 04:48:55 PM »
I'd say I've had past gfs treat me better.

TBH I skimmed over most of the thread before posting. Just went back and this stuck out to me. Why settle? Especially if you know you can do better.

Miamoo

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #87 on: May 02, 2013, 12:52:56 PM »
Now 2 May.

So what happened?  Poor thing.

LizzyBee

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #88 on: May 05, 2013, 02:39:32 PM »
Be yourself around her.  Tell her you choose not to spend money on fancy dinners, nice cars, expensive ring/wedding, big house, etc. Tell her what kind of life you are planning to live, starting now and all the way through. Let her know you are willing to adjust your plans as part of a relationship, but not live a "normal" life. Stop being the bank and start expecting her to participate fully in the financial aspects of life. If it's not "necessary", then you don't pay for it. Have the "children" conversation and be honest, for her sake as well as your own.

After that discussion and those changes I bet the outcome will become clear.  If not then you have some more thinking to do, but right now you have actions you can take without having to decide where it will go.

I agree! My gut is wanting to tell you to run far and fast from this relationship, but I know we don't have the full context of the story, and obviously you still care about her if you're asking for advice. If you really want to try to make it work with this girl, be honest. Tell her about your financial goals and that you will have to cut back on entertainment spending. Then, when plans come up on the weekend, just say, 'I just made a really big loan payment so we're going to have to find some free/cheap entertainment ideas this weekend.' I understand wanting to pay for her drinks or meal as a treat, but if you find yourself doing it almost every time you go out then she's learning to become dependent on your money for fun. Ask yourself if you can/want live with that long term. As far as big ticket items like travel, plan a trip and split the costs down the middle. Calculate how much it will cost and make your expectations clear. Tell her how much you will both have to save per month to be able to afford the trip you want to take or the house you want to buy in x number of months/years.

James is right, once you make your expectations clear about how you want to spend your money and you stick to it, you will see more clearly who she is as a person and whether or not you can live with that long term.

ch12

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #89 on: May 05, 2013, 10:46:26 PM »
I agree with the vast majority on this site: get rid of any significant other (regardless of gender) who is dragging you down (especially financially).

I'm fairly sure that the OP is not making false promises and similar stuff, but the thread reminded me of this question on Quora: http://www.quora.com/Life-Advice/How-normal-is-it-for-a-husband-with-a-six-figure-salary-to-yell-at-his-under-employed-wife-when-she-asks-him-to-spot-her-a-20

It's just hard to read these responses (and 100% agree with the rational responses) and also have this background (of research + volunteering) in domestic abuse situations, where the husband turns into a controlling, tightfisted monster after marriage (and a wife-beater).

I think the best choice would be for the OP and his girlfriend to move on due to fundamental incompatibility.

WhatMomWears

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #90 on: May 06, 2013, 02:58:48 PM »
I have to agree that you need to do some serious deep thinking about this relationship. Unless you want to be supporting a SAHM in the lifestyle to which she would like to become accustomed of course. In which case that's fine.

But I also think you should sit down with her and have an extremely serious conversation about money and your prioroties and hers and how, if at all, they can merge. You really don't want to be regretting this decision later in your life.

nktokyo

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #91 on: May 06, 2013, 09:49:40 PM »
I think you have to be on the same page about money in order to get married and raise a family.

Who earns what... that doesn't matter, it will all even out in the wash. But you have to be using the same play book.

szymanski

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #92 on: May 07, 2013, 04:42:12 AM »
***OK - update (not much of one)***

I've had some discussions w/her.  Mixed results.  Basically, told her my concerns related to spending & her "habit" of sitting around all day not doing much.  She responded by saying I'm too focused on $ & not surprisingly didn't like that I see her as being lazy.

She bought some groceries and cooked 1 meal.  We did a weekend trip - she paid for the hotel one night (which wasn't cheap) + a few of her drinks & one of mine.  I covered the rest. 

Told her she wouldn't be going w/me to NY to visit family b/c I couldn't pay her way.  She didn't like that but still seems to believe she will be going.

Her daily routine doesn't seem to be changing.  She has had some interviews & a job could be coming soon.  Still feel the push of ring, house, living together, etc. but I'm not in a hurry.

limeandpepper

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #93 on: May 07, 2013, 09:13:01 AM »
Sounds like it's going to be an uphill battle. It's good that she's started doing some things but on the other hand, it seems a bit grudging and she isn't genuinely on board. Woohoo - she bought some groceries and cooked a meal. Most of us manage to do that (and more) every week while holding down a full time job. I also suspect that if you succumb to the pushing - once she gets what she wants and you're trapped in a commitment, she'll be back to her old self, and you'd be in a position to lose half your stuff.

Sorry if I sound negative, and of course, I don't know the whole story. I think many of us are still curious as to what is really keeping you in the relationship. I guess I just don't understand, as I'm the sort who is more inclined to find someone whose default position is to want to contribute, without having to be asked to do so.

Dynasty

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #94 on: May 07, 2013, 10:02:43 AM »
She responded by saying I'm too focused on $.


Blame shifting baby! She's switching things around and trying to make this YOUR problem (your fault, you're being judgmental...), not hers.

Remember the first post I made in this thread about the girl I was with for 8 months who your girl reminded me of? She did this too. Said I was too focused on money...

Told her she wouldn't be going w/me to NY to visit family b/c I couldn't pay her way.  She didn't like that but still seems to believe she will be going.

Is she buying herself a ticket? Or thinks that you'll come to your senses and take her anyways?




totoro

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #95 on: May 07, 2013, 11:15:03 AM »
Oh good grief.  Stop it.  Just stop it.

Life is short.  The biggest decision you can make will be who you partner with.  It will determine a large part of your daily happiness and the happiness of your children.

You need to be 100% in the relationship because things have a future and it looks damn good.  Unless you can say this, get out.

This is one person of many.  Really.  There are others who will want to be with you and vice versa.

We create, promote and allow the things that happen in our lives.  Why are you allowing this to continue when you have doubts?  Might be time for you to focus on that question and not whether the relationship is workable.

Arbor33

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #96 on: May 07, 2013, 12:03:54 PM »
Szymanski,

I know you came here looking for some answers but the truth of the matter is no one on this entire site is qualified to tell you what to do with your relationship (including myself). Financial advice, hell yea, some really smart people tend to hang around this place. Learn what you can and carry on accordingly.

Now that I've dismissed everyone on this site from relationship counselling, I'm going to be a hypocrite.

Your relationship concerns might be warranted, or they might not. As some have alluded to, communication is key in any relationship. Talk with her, get to know the reasoning behind her behaviors, and more importantly the reasoning behind yours in regards to her. Know her to the core but make sure you know yourself thoroughly first. Then, and only then, can you start to really assess things.

Do what makes you happy. There isn't a soul on here who knows if she still gives you butterflies in your tummy, but damn brother, if she does, far be it from anyone to tell you to run.

I wish you luck in whatever decision you happen to make.

-Arbor

totoro

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #97 on: May 07, 2013, 01:23:12 PM »
If you are making a decision based on the butterflies in your stomach test please wait for two years.  People get this feeling in the EARLY stages of love and they also get it in the face of impending danger.  There is more to a lifelong partnership than butterflies can foretell and, on the facts, impending danger seems more likely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterflies_in_the_stomach

BPA

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #98 on: May 07, 2013, 02:55:04 PM »
Szymanski,

I know you came here looking for some answers but the truth of the matter is no one on this entire site is qualified to tell you what to do with your relationship (including myself). Financial advice, hell yea, some really smart people tend to hang around this place. Learn what you can and carry on accordingly.

Now that I've dismissed everyone on this site from relationship counselling, I'm going to be a hypocrite.

Your relationship concerns might be warranted, or they might not. As some have alluded to, communication is key in any relationship. Talk with her, get to know the reasoning behind her behaviors, and more importantly the reasoning behind yours in regards to her. Know her to the core but make sure you know yourself thoroughly first. Then, and only then, can you start to really assess things.

Do what makes you happy. There isn't a soul on here who knows if she still gives you butterflies in your tummy, but damn brother, if she does, far be it from anyone to tell you to run.

I wish you luck in whatever decision you happen to make.

-Arbor


Everyone here knows the OP will make up his own mind and he asked for advice.  Besides, when people see the warning signs, they are just trying to be helpful.  I'm thinking Dynasty is almost having flashbacks, poor guy. 

Szymanski:  The most optimistic outcome I perceive is the poster who said that this is going to be an uphill battle.  You know what the least optimistic predictions are. I guess you have to decide if it's worth it.  Good luck.

citrine

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?
« Reply #99 on: May 07, 2013, 04:42:34 PM »
I agree...why would you stay with someone who cannot and will not pull her weight in a relationship?  I would rather be lonely and happy rather than with someone and unhappy.  If you choose to stay with her, this is going to be the norm in your relationship...all this angst, her not working, her using you as a meal ticket, and then when kids are involved....ugh!  Not a good situation for children to come into.  I have known women like this and they really "expect" a man to take care of them!  I work with my husband as a team....we are able to take care of each other, communicate, and work towards our dream together.  I work part time and take care of the house, cleaning, and yard work sometimes so he does not have to after a full day at his job. 
This whole relationship that you have is really one sided....only you seem to be working at it and supporting it financially.  Run while you still can :)