Alternate Path to Retirement

[bikebum]

Hi everyone!

I've been thinking about a hybrid version of ER and traditional work til 55. The numbers are just examples. I purposely didn't include much detail because I'm just curious what people think of the general idea. Numbers can easily be tweaked for individual situations. It would go something like this:

Phase 1: Work full time with high savings rate, start a nice nest egg, say $200K by early 30's.
Phase 2: Work part time to cover all expenses, let nest egg grow, save smaller amounts if possible.
Phase 3: Retire when the nest egg has grown big enough. At 5% after inflation, $200K would become $600K after 22.5 years, with no additional savings from Phase 2. Pension and Social Security can be used as other legs of retirement stool.

Seems a person could retire at a normal age, but they would have worked part time instead of full time for most of their career.
This seems like a good path for someone who wants to keep their current job but would prefer to work less.

What do you guys and gals think?

[marty998]

No 2 situations are ever exactly the same. Everyone has different ways of getting to where they want.

[seattlecyclone]

That's certainly a valid path. If you enjoy your job well enough that you truly want to do that work on a part-time basis for a couple more decades, then go right ahead and do that! I think a lot of us on here have doubts that we will want to work in our current careers 10-20 years down the road, which is why we're working toward true financial independence.

I think my current plan is to work full time until FI, then see how I feel about my job. If I still like it well enough, I'll see about switching into a 3-4 day/week schedule and donate most of my salary to charity for as long as I truly enjoy my work. And since I'll already be FI, I'll have the freedom to stop working the minute it stops being enjoyable.

[jfer_rose]

This is pretty much my plan. Perhaps the major differences are 1) that I want to have a nice big cushion built into my stash, so I plan to wait until my stash is a bit bigger before switching to part time work and 2) given that I'm already 36, my money won't have as long to compound and grow.

[Beaker]

Semi-retirement seems to be a pretty common lifestyle around here. So I wouldn't say it's an alternate path so much as changing some of the dates around. I don't see a problem with it.

I'm a little doubtful that you'll get much of a pension from ~10 years of full time work, and I heavily discount any hypothetical Social Security income. If it were me, I'd be happier if I had a some plausible plan for what I'd do if those don't materialize.

[jbmatth]

This sounds suspiciously like what MMM did in a way.  Even though he planned to retire, and is retired, he produces enough income from his side gigs that he isn't really dipping into his retirement accounts.  Sounds reasonable, and best of luck to you.

[Cassie]

I think it sounds like a good plan. Everyone can do things their own way. I retired at 58 and did not like it but also did not like working F.T.  So I started my own business doing what I did for the state and I am so loving it. I work from home  P.T. & set my own schedule, etc.

[windawake]

This is something I'd like to do, definitely. I just started working full-time after grad school (I'm 25 now) and don't really feel too excited about working full-time for the next 15-20 years. I'm thinking I'll work full-time until I'm 30, then take a year off or so, and then go down to part-time at about 30 hours/week.

[rocksinmyhead]

I think this would be my ideal situation. I like my field, and my mom worked part-time (job sharing in a sales position, 3 days a week while her partner took 2) for most of my sister's and my childhood. I thought it seemed like a pretty good deal... get to be there for your kids a lot of the time, but still go to a job you enjoy. hopefully I can find a relevant part time position when the time comes!

[randymarsh]

Definitely a valid route.

You lose some flexibility and freedom though. Part-time work (usually) still means working a few days a week all year long. That presents a problem if you want to slow travel or just have a complete month or 2 off. You're also on your own for health insurance in most situations.

This post reminded me of something I've been thinking about. I wonder how I'm going to feel about working when I have FU money but not FIRE money. For this definition of FU money, I mean you have enough money to quit your job and live without really cutting back for years (maybe 4 plus?) Like your 200K example.

I wonder if the temptation to take a 5 year break at 30 will be too great if I have that kind of money. Or if I'll start to hate work, but continue because I know the freedom I'd have would only be temporary...

[bikebum]

I think a lot of us on here have doubts that we will want to work in our current careers 10-20 years down the road, which is why we're working toward true financial independence.

That's a good point. I'm only about 3.5 years into my career. Although I think if I get tired of it I could find something else fun to do that covers my expenses.

[bikebum]

I'm a little doubtful that you'll get much of a pension from ~10 years of full time work, and I heavily discount any hypothetical Social Security income. If it were me, I'd be happier if I had a some plausible plan for what I'd do if those don't materialize.

Yeah, maybe it's more appropriate to call them little bonuses rather than legs of "the stool." The pension I will get is well defined, so I know what to expect there. It will not be large, but not insignificant either. Phase 1 could last longer to build in a cushion. Phase 3 could also be put off til later.

[bikebum]

This sounds suspiciously like what MMM did in a way.  Even though he planned to retire, and is retired, he produces enough income from his side gigs that he isn't really dipping into his retirement accounts.  Sounds reasonable, and best of luck to you.

Thanks. The fact that many ER's keep making money is a big part of why I am thinking about this. I think I would also continue to make money if I achieved FI at a young age. So I don't really need to be FI if I want to keep working a little anyway.

[bikebum]

I think it sounds like a good plan. Everyone can do things their own way. I retired at 58 and did not like it but also did not like working F.T.  So I started my own business doing what I did for the state and I am so loving it. I work from home  P.T. & set my own schedule, etc.

That sounds great! I think I would enjoy something like it.

[bikebum]

This is something I'd like to do, definitely. I just started working full-time after grad school (I'm 25 now) and don't really feel too excited about working full-time for the next 15-20 years. I'm thinking I'll work full-time until I'm 30, then take a year off or so, and then go down to part-time at about 30 hours/week.

I hear ya! Full time is too much. I have lots of hobbies, but I definitely wouldn't want to do any of them for 40 hrs a week, every week. I don't think there is any one thing I want to do that much, except sleep.

[HappierAtHome]

What you've described is pretty similar to what we plan to do.

Up until kids = work full time and stash as much as possible (we plan to be at least 50% towards FI before kids, I'll be 30 and my partner will be 37).

After kids = work part time, take it a little slower, hopefully still stash 50% of part time pay and reach FI while kids are still in school.

Part time work is much more palatable to me than full time, and we're lucky to earn enough that our part time salaries will still be more than adequate to save for FI.

[bikebum]

What you've described is pretty similar to what we plan to do.

Up until kids = work full time and stash as much as possible (we plan to be at least 50% towards FI before kids, I'll be 30 and my partner will be 37).

After kids = work part time, take it a little slower, hopefully still stash 50% of part time pay and reach FI while kids are still in school.

Part time work is much more palatable to me than full time, and we're lucky to earn enough that our part time salaries will still be more than adequate to save for FI.

Sounds awesome, and you'll have much more time to spend with your kids. I don't know if you care, but another good thing is more time with the kids will probably be seen as an "acceptable" reason to choose part time work.

[bogart]

Depending on what you do, a very noticeable downside to PT work can be the lack of benefits.  Per my employer, if I work 29 hours per week, I earn 29*X, where X is my hourly wage (or equivalent, if salaried).  You can sub in any number for the 29 there, if the number is under 29.  If I work 30 hours a week, I earn 30*1.25*X.  So ... you can do the math.  That 30th hour has a value of 8.5X (= X + 30*.25*X).  And that's just its immediate value (cost to my employer).  It happens to include a 10% 401K match, so over time it's a lot more valuable (to me) than that.

That's based on my particular situation -- my employer does estimate that (on average), the benefits it provides equal .25 of the value of salary (for various reasons, that estimate's probably low for me -- they are probably worth more than 25% of my salary -- but let's use the average), and does count 30 hours/week as full-time.  But the rule is generally true across a wide number of employers in the U.S. 

Which isn't to say you shouldn't work part time.  But there are real (and quantifiable!) downsides, in many situations.

[doyouknowwhy]

Seems like a good route.  However, I worry that in step #2, you might get side tracked with kids, family, education, etc.

[bikebum]

Depending on what you do, a very noticeable downside to PT work can be the lack of benefits.  Per my employer, if I work 29 hours per week, I earn 29*X, where X is my hourly wage (or equivalent, if salaried).  You can sub in any number for the 29 there, if the number is under 29.  If I work 30 hours a week, I earn 30*1.25*X.  So ... you can do the math.  That 30th hour has a value of 8.5X (= X + 30*.25*X).  And that's just its immediate value (cost to my employer).  It happens to include a 10% 401K match, so over time it's a lot more valuable (to me) than that.

That's based on my particular situation -- my employer does estimate that (on average), the benefits it provides equal .25 of the value of salary (for various reasons, that estimate's probably low for me -- they are probably worth more than 25% of my salary -- but let's use the average), and does count 30 hours/week as full-time.  But the rule is generally true across a wide number of employers in the U.S. 

Which isn't to say you shouldn't work part time.  But there are real (and quantifiable!) downsides, in many situations.

Good points. As far as I know, no one at my work has wanted to work part time. I'm not sure how or if it would work; I'm not ready to ask about it yet though. You'll still lose your bennies if you do full FIRE anyway.

I don't get employer matching for retirement, so that just leaves healthcare. Obama-care to the rescue?

I think that's pretty cool that 30 hrs/wk is considered full time. I wonder how common that is.

[bikebum]

Seems like a good route.  However, I worry that in step #2, you might get side tracked with kids, family, education, etc.

Do you mean unexpected expenses, or getting distracted and not working enough? Or both?

[backyardfeast]

This is pretty much exactly our plan, because we're starting so late.  As I said to my husband when he started to freak out about not having a pension, "we can't save 20 yrs worth of your income in 15 yrs!" Sigh.

But we're excited that I will have a pension at 60, and we will both be able to collect our national pension at 60, so all we really need to do is save what we can now, while we're working full-time, and *pay off a house* to get our yearly expenses as low as possible.  At that point, my part-time income will cover our living expenses (I'll be 50), and DH can do as he pleases (he'll be 60, but he can go to part-time before me too, if he wants).

I'm lucky enough to be prof, so part-time for me is 2 days/week (at most), 8 mos/year.  I think I can handle that. :)

[HappierAtHome]

What you've described is pretty similar to what we plan to do.

Up until kids = work full time and stash as much as possible (we plan to be at least 50% towards FI before kids, I'll be 30 and my partner will be 37).

After kids = work part time, take it a little slower, hopefully still stash 50% of part time pay and reach FI while kids are still in school.

Part time work is much more palatable to me than full time, and we're lucky to earn enough that our part time salaries will still be more than adequate to save for FI.

Sounds awesome, and you'll have much more time to spend with your kids. I don't know if you care, but another good thing is more time with the kids will probably be seen as an "acceptable" reason to choose part time work.

Good point. The BF feels like he will probably be judged for going part time even when we have kids to look after. I, on the other hand, have an auto immune disorder which I can use as a reason why I need more time off at whatever point I want to go part time. This illness wipes me out and makes it really hard to work full time, so it's not going to be in any way a lie or exaggeration.

[doyouknowwhy]

Seems like a good route.  However, I worry that in step #2, you might get side tracked with kids, family, education, etc.

Do you mean unexpected expenses, or getting distracted and not working enough? Or both?

unexpected expenses

[meadow lark]

I guess I am doing a variation of this.  Worked full-time, then either my wife or I were part-time for 7 yrs with our son, then full-time a few years, now I am part-time b/c I am burnt out.  Ages 39 and 51, half-way to FI.  We will RE in 4 yrs and 3 months, and I am willing to go back later and work part-time again if I have to, but if we don't stop working then I may miss my chance to travel the way I want to b/c of my wife's age.

[JohnGalt]

Hi everyone!

I've been thinking about a hybrid version of ER and traditional work til 55. The numbers are just examples. I purposely didn't include much detail because I'm just curious what people think of the general idea. Numbers can easily be tweaked for individual situations. It would go something like this:

Phase 1: Work full time with high savings rate, start a nice nest egg, say $200K by early 30's.
Phase 2: Work part time to cover all expenses, let nest egg grow, save smaller amounts if possible.
Phase 3: Retire when the nest egg has grown big enough. At 5% after inflation, $200K would become $600K after 22.5 years, with no additional savings from Phase 2. Pension and Social Security can be used as other legs of retirement stool.

Seems a person could retire at a normal age, but they would have worked part time instead of full time for most of their career.
This seems like a good path for someone who wants to keep their current job but would prefer to work less.

What do you guys and gals think?

+1 to the list of people doing something very similar to this path

Phase 1 is essentially complete, just negotiated being able to take up to 3 months off (unpaid) a year so I'm transitioning into Phase 2 though my savings rate will stay pretty high probably up until I hit what I call my bare essentials FI point (basically where I can "live" off investments, just not at my desired lifestyle).  Then I'll probably quit the job to spend time try to get something going that I can work as much or as little as I want/need. 

[happy]

Again another+1. Also known as downshifting.
Been working part-time for 18 years post kids. Decided to re-badge it as semi-retired just over a year ago. Currently planning to be out of my current job in <5 years @60. Although I've been downshifting for 2 decades, I'm a latecomer to FIRE (just redefining the RE as retire earlier than I otherwise would have). I've realised that even though I'm late, I still have time for the power of compounding if I have sufficient longevity..eg 55 - 95 is 40 years. As long as I keep part of the stache intact to compound. Currently after 60 I plan to completely retire, but hey, if really enjoyable part-time work were to come my way I'd think about it. Another option I've been thinking about is interval working, like John Galt and Woodpecker, where one only works for 3/6/9 months of the year.

Thats the cool part about all this, you can design it how you want it. And then change your mind and re-design it.

[spider1204]

All this frugality stuff is the key to freedom, but what you do with it is up to you.  Also, it's a continuum, every asset that you have working for you and every time you decrease your reliance on money to solve your problems you gain a little more freedom.

With mine I decided to quit working after just a little over a year to start freelancing and working remotely because as a climber being able to move around seasonally is very important to me.  The assets that I was able to accumulate in just a year are obviously not to sustain my lifestyle indefinitely, but I have years to figure out how to make money as a freelancer.  This is good because I quit without any clients lined up and didn't feel like working for the first few months anyway.

[limeandpepper]

I'm thinking about something similar, but I have no fixed plans yet. I'm currently in Phase 1 but will soon move to Phase 2, and my version of that is taking a sabbatical first (for 6+ months) and then deciding what to do next. It's possible that during the sabbatical I'll build up some freelance gigs and that can be my new direction, or perhaps I'll not have worked at all during those months, and then I'll contemplate going back to work for a while, before re-assessing again. My boyfriend is a freelancer, and we reckon it would be pretty cool if he could get a well-paid contract for just a few months each year, and then just spend the rest of the time doing whatever he likes.

[Gray Matter]

This has been my plan for many years.  It was not very well defined, but I talked about it as, "Save as much as we can today, so we can save less in the future and have more freedom of choice."  Of course, that was before I found MMM so my version of "save as much as you can" was pretty pathetic (maybe 20% of take-home).  At that time, my plan was to pay off the house and get the kids through college at the same time, so our expenses would drop significantly and we could then stop saving and work in jobs that we wanted to until retirement age.

After finding MMM, and also starting to feel burned out in my current career, I realized we can't really know what will make our future selves happy.  And with that new perspective, my goal is to get to FI as soon as possible without sacrificing too much of the time I have left with my kids at home (they are 8, 9, and 12).  We currently have enough saved in retirement accounts such that, if left alone, we could find jobs that earn only enough to pay current living expenses and still retire at relatively normal ages (say 60 and 63).

I'm not sure anymore that I want to work that long, even in a part-time job I love, so we want to keep saving.  On the other hand, I may want to work until the day I die in a part-time job I love--the point is:  I don't know.  And money in the bank allows me to flex as my desires change.

So my advice to you is:  this sounds like a great plan, but make sure you build in flexibility to change your mind down the road.  So perhaps save a little more than 200K so you could retire fully a little earlier if you decide you want to.

[wtjbatman]

I think it's fascinating looking at different people's perspectives on retirement. Here (both in this thread and on these forums), someone planning to retire at 55 is not retiring early (RE), but someone who retires at 40 is. Yet the general thoughts about retirement I have found in real life are that a normal retirement is 65 (or older). Everyone who I have talked to about my plan to be retired by 55 looks at me like I'm nuts. If I talk about that here, people are like "Why wait so long to retire?"

[Kaminoge]

I'm currently working towards a different version again.

My plan (which could also change) is that I'll take a year off every few years. Part time work isn't feasible for me (unless my life changes dramatically) because I like to change countries regularly and I always need someone to sponsor me for a visa (which means full time work). I'm a teacher so even when I am working I get a couple of months a year off. And honestly while I'd love to be FI at this point I don't really want to be retired - once again for visa issues.

One of the great things about hanging out here is seeing all the different ideas people have for organising life.

[rtrnow]

Another +1 for a similar plan. I'm 35 and technically am now FI looking at my basic expenses without any big unknowns. I'm planning to leave my job in about 5 months both to build an extra cash cushion and bc there is a bonus in June at the end of our fiscal. I plan not to work at all for 4-6 months, but I already have some prospects for part-time work in a different field that won't pay much but will be enjoyable to me. I hope PT work plus rental income will cover all expenses and my investments be remain untouched for at least 10 years.

[Numbers Man]

My Phase 2 would be consultancy rather than part time work. That way I can take off for 3 months or so at a time and travel.

Also, I don't know how practical it is to get a part time job unless you had the same part time job for a long time at the same employer. By that, I mean employers don't want to hire vagabonds that have had multiple part time jobs over the years (A vagrant or a vagabond is a person, often in poverty, who wanders from place to place without a home or regular employment or income.) The mainstream thinks there's something wrong with you if you have an intermittent employment history since you might feel the need not to work for several weeks to several months out of the year. I'm thinking the construction industry would be the perfect cover for an early retiree. Wait, I think I know someone who does that.

[goodlife]

Nice topic, I have also been toying with this idea. One reason is that I really don't want to keep working in my current high stress/high pay field anymore, but the other reason is that I also don't see myself as someone who will really enjoy being retired, I will probably always want to have some kind of part-time job. I think working 4 hours a day is exactly the right amount, still gets you to interact with people and keep your skills sharp. I have also noticed that I don't really enjoy myself when I have a long stretch of just leisure time. I have a lot of hobbies, don't get me wrong, and I do want more time to pursue them than I have now, but I think there is a nice balance to be had. If I only had to work 4 hours per day, 5 days a week, that would be perfect. I would have something that would force me to budget my time and not be a bored slacker (I think too much time on your hands is also not good...just reminds of a lot of projects that always take as long as you have...if someone tells me I have one month, it will take me one month...but if someone tells me I have 1 day, I magically get it done too).

So part of me is totally toying with this idea...I am taking a break from work soon to travel, then I am thinking of finding another high paying job for a year or two...that should get my savings to somewhere around 500-600k fingers crossed...then I could transition to part-time work and just let that stash grow for some years (500k stash when I am 30, growing for 20 years at 4% will be over 1mn assuming zero contribution or withdrawal). At first my plan was just to keep working until I am truly FIRE, but I wonder what the point is of slaving away those extra years when in the end I will want to get a part-time job anyhow...could as well accellerate this plan and kiss the corporate rat race goodbye a bit sooner. I think it's very important to know when you have enough and I think I am happy to risk it a bit earlier. If the plan doesn't work as planned, then it would probably become apparent very quickly in the first few years and I could still go back to the corporate world again. I am not worried about the problem of losing benefits since that's not an issue in the countries that I am living in, but that's definitely something to consider in the US I suppose.

[bikebum]

What you've described is pretty similar to what we plan to do.

Up until kids = work full time and stash as much as possible (we plan to be at least 50% towards FI before kids, I'll be 30 and my partner will be 37).

After kids = work part time, take it a little slower, hopefully still stash 50% of part time pay and reach FI while kids are still in school.

Part time work is much more palatable to me than full time, and we're lucky to earn enough that our part time salaries will still be more than adequate to save for FI.

Sounds awesome, and you'll have much more time to spend with your kids. I don't know if you care, but another good thing is more time with the kids will probably be seen as an "acceptable" reason to choose part time work.

Good point. The BF feels like he will probably be judged for going part time even when we have kids to look after. I, on the other hand, have an auto immune disorder which I can use as a reason why I need more time off at whatever point I want to go part time. This illness wipes me out and makes it really hard to work full time, so it's not going to be in any way a lie or exaggeration.

I agree, probably no one will question that reason. Sorry about your illness.

I feel similar to your BF. But I think it'll be worth it. Judge away world!

[Dicey]

I think this is an awesome plan!

Two key points: Money saved early and left untouched is worth more, due to the magic of compound interest. Diversify, keep your expenses low, rebalance regularly and don't pull it out early to pay for stupid shit. Second, there will always be some form of Social Security (even for those who don't believe it), so make sure you have enough quarters to qualify for your full payout, what ever it ends up being.

[bikebum]

Thanks for all the replies everyone! It's cool to read about people planning and doing something like this!

Chuggin' away to FIRE is badass, but I think downshifting (I like that word for it, thanks happy) suits me better.

[bikebum]

I think this is an awesome plan!

Two key points: Money saved early and left untouched is worth more, due to the magic of compound interest. Diversify, keep your expenses low, rebalance regularly and don't pull it out early to pay for stupid shit. Second, there will always be some form of Social Security (even for those who don't believe it), so make sure you have enough quarters to qualify for your full payout, what ever it ends up being.

Thanks for these. I got 'em covered, but I'm glad you brought them up. Even if you do believe SS will be gone, good to have your 40 quarters just in case.

My mom's name is Diane C. and she lives in NorCal. She's not mustachian though.

[mikefixac]

Definitely out of the box thinking. I think you're right on.

I know two doctors and they're miserable. From the outside it would seem if they could work part time at half the pay, say $100K-$150K/year they would be so much happier.

But not knowing the mustachian way to live, and becoming acclimated to lifestyle accumulation, they feel they have no choice. So here they are making (for me) an incredible amount of money, but not enjoying life. Of course, got to pay for the divorce, expensive vacations, and so on.

[foobar]

Your payout isn't going to be very high if you only have 40 quarters as you will have like 20 years of no income that factored in. I am not sure if there is some min though.

I think this is an awesome plan!

Two key points: Money saved early and left untouched is worth more, due to the magic of compound interest. Diversify, keep your expenses low, rebalance regularly and don't pull it out early to pay for stupid shit. Second, there will always be some form of Social Security (even for those who don't believe it), so make sure you have enough quarters to qualify for your full payout, what ever it ends up being.

[foobar]

Some times it is hard to work part time. I don't know these guys exact situation but I know that for malpractice insurance, you don't get a huge discount for being part time. And if you have overhead (i.e. you run your own office), you have a fixed overhead that you need to meet. And you need to have the same number of CME hours no matter what.

Where I used to work, a bunch of use would have taken the work part time approach. But it doesn't work as well for the company having 2x as many people working half (heck most people would have been ok with just 4 day work weeks) as much even if they didn't pay benefits. Coordinating a large group is most harder than small ones. It really depends a lot on your field as to how well part time works out

Definitely out of the box thinking. I think you're right on.

I know two doctors and they're miserable. From the outside it would seem if they could work part time at half the pay, say $100K-$150K/year they would be so much happier.

But not knowing the mustachian way to live, and becoming acclimated to lifestyle accumulation, they feel they have no choice. So here they are making (for me) an incredible amount of money, but not enjoying life. Of course, got to pay for the divorce, expensive vacations, and so on.

[bikebum]

Your payout isn't going to be very high if you only have 40 quarters as you will have like 20 years of no income that factored in. I am not sure if there is some min though.

I think this is an awesome plan!

Two key points: Money saved early and left untouched is worth more, due to the magic of compound interest. Diversify, keep your expenses low, rebalance regularly and don't pull it out early to pay for stupid shit. Second, there will always be some form of Social Security (even for those who don't believe it), so make sure you have enough quarters to qualify for your full payout, what ever it ends up being.

You don't get any SS if you don't have at least 40 quarters. I think the point here is to make sure you have the minimum so you get something from it, since you had to pay into it. You only need to make like $4-5K $4,800 a year to get 4 quarters a year (the max you can get), so even working part time most people will get just as many quarters as full time. I think the payment is based on 20 35 years of highest income. So it doesn't really matter at what point during the 20 35 years you make the money. All in your first 5 or spread out, I think the payment is based on the average so it comes out the same. Yes it's lower than if you work full time for the whole 20 35 years, but who the hell wants to do that?! Especially since it's 35 and not 20!

[bikebum]

Some times it is hard to work part time. I don't know these guys exact situation but I know that for malpractice insurance, you don't get a huge discount for being part time. And if you have overhead (i.e. you run your own office), you have a fixed overhead that you need to meet. And you need to have the same number of CME hours no matter what.

Where I used to work, a bunch of use would have taken the work part time approach. But it doesn't work as well for the company having 2x as many people working half (heck most people would have been ok with just 4 day work weeks) as much even if they didn't pay benefits. Coordinating a large group is most harder than small ones. It really depends a lot on your field as to how well part time works out

These are good points. Although I've read some studies (OK summaries of the real studies) that suggest most office workers who "work" 8 hour days are only doing work for about 4-6 hours. One said as little as 2 hours! Kellogg (the cereal guy) at one point switched his factories to a 30 hour work week and they still produced 35 hours worth of work when compared to the original 40 hour work week. I doubt most of our brains are able to do 8 hours of intellectually demanding work in one chunk.

Companies would not want to have to provide benefits for 2 people instead of 1. But I think we really want everyone to have these benefits anyway, not just the people who can get a full time job. Sorry, I'm drifting off topic. You are right that it can be hard to find a good part time job. The working world isn't very conducive to it right now. If enough of us want it, we can make it better.

[bikebum]

Definitely out of the box thinking. I think you're right on.

I know two doctors and they're miserable. From the outside it would seem if they could work part time at half the pay, say $100K-$150K/year they would be so much happier.

But not knowing the mustachian way to live, and becoming acclimated to lifestyle accumulation, they feel they have no choice. So here they are making (for me) an incredible amount of money, but not enjoying life. Of course, got to pay for the divorce, expensive vacations, and so on.

So $100K-$150K would be half pay?! Seems like a no-brainer.

[bikebum]

These are good points. Although I've read some studies (OK summaries of the real studies) that suggest most office workers who "work" 8 hour days are only doing work for about 4-6 hours. One said as little as 2 hours! Kellogg (the cereal guy) at one point switched his factories to a 30 hour work week and they still produced 35 hours worth of work when compared to the original 40 hour work week. I doubt most of our brains are able to do 8 hours of intellectually demanding work in one chunk.

Is it lame to quote myself? Anyway...

It's a fun coincidence that the latest MMM post has an interview that brings this up. I'm gonna go finish reading it.

[Dicey]

My mom's name is Diane C. and she lives in NorCal. She's not mustachian though.

LOL bikebum. I'm actually legally Diane C Y these days, but I was Diane C around here long before I got married, so I haven't bothered to change it. Though I could be Dianecy, I guess, but my mustache might fall off if I changed my name, horrors!

Sorry to hear your mom's not a Mustachian, but she raised one who clearly loves bicycles, so she must have done something right, yes?

I'm glad you got my point on SS. I equate it to not participating in an employer's 401K plan with a company match. You just don't leave money on the table, especially if you plan to RE. Potentially small amounts could really add up by the time you get to your "golden" years. Even if they're ultimately small, they're still better than nothing.

Based on your thoughtful responses to other posters, I reiterate my response: Go for it! Nobody gets to their deathbed wishing they'd worked more. Here's another favorite gem: "Retiring too early is a mistake you can recover from, too late and there is no recovery." Don't know where I found it, or who said it, but I posted it on my computer, where it inspired me, until the day I retired.

[bikebum]

My mom's name is Diane C. and she lives in NorCal. She's not mustachian though.

LOL bikebum. I'm actually legally Diane C Y these days, but I was Diane C around here long before I got married, so I haven't bothered to change it. Though I could be Dianecy, I guess, but my mustache might fall off if I changed my name, horrors!

Sorry to hear your mom's not a Mustachian, but she raised one who clearly loves bicycles, so she must have done something right, yes?

I'm glad you got my point on SS. I equate it to not participating in an employer's 401K plan with a company match. You just don't leave money on the table, especially if you plan to RE. Potentially small amounts could really add up by the time you get to your "golden" years. Even if they're ultimately small, they're still better than nothing.

Based on your thoughtful responses to other posters, I reiterate my response: Go for it! Nobody gets to their deathbed wishing they'd worked more. Here's another favorite gem: "Retiring too early is a mistake you can recover from, too late and there is no recovery." Don't know where I found it, or who said it, but I posted it on my computer, where it inspired me, until the day I retired.

Thanks for the encouraging words. I like that quote, very true.

Yeah, both of my parents were/are awesome. They actually helped teach me a lot of skills that are valuable in mustachian life: balancing hard work and fun, thinking for yourself, getting your shit done now so you don't have to pay for it later. They are kind of like mustachians that spend a lot, if there can be such a thing :)

[Dicey]

They are kind of like mustachians that spend a lot, if there can be such a thing :)

Holy shit, bikebum, that's hilarious! I am literally laughing out loud. Perhaps they can be like those people who call themselves vegetarians except for the specific meat they still eat. (Chickaterians, anyone?) They could be "Asterisk Mustachians". Or should it be Mustachians, Asterisk?" Thanks, I think I'm going to use that one in the future, if I may.

[bikebum]

They are kind of like mustachians that spend a lot, if there can be such a thing :)

Holy shit, bikebum, that's hilarious! I am literally laughing out loud. Perhaps they can be like those people who call themselves vegetarians except for the specific meat they still eat. (Chickaterians, anyone?) They could be "Asterisk Mustachians". Or should it be Mustachians, Asterisk?" Thanks, I think I'm going to use that one in the future, if I may.

Haha, I used to consider myself a "flexitarian"! Really it just meant I ate meat when I felt like it.

Go ahead and use the concept as you like!