Car advice for growing family of soon to be 4 - tale of the beater and SUV

[jeromedawg]

So, we're expecting our 2nd end of Feb 2017 and I'm starting to get antsy again about the car situation. It wasn't as concerning when we had our first back in 2015, but now I'm sort of fretting at what it will look like (especially with the whole "you really need to put your infant in the middle seat, rear-facing" advice).

The current line-up:
- 1993 Camry XLE in fair condition - the fender and drivers side door are mismatched colors that I pulled off other Camrys at the junkyard due to a really stupid mistake/accident where I ruined the original fender/door). I have no idea what I'd get back for it but it's ugly. Fact of the matter is that it still runs and gets you from point A to point B. I barely ever drive it as I'm WFH now.

- 2009 Rav4 standard - nothing is wrong with the car and it has been very reliable for us. My wife primarily drives this around and uses it for errands (she is not working and is fulltime SAHM). She despises the thought of driving the ugly Camry around too. The problem with this car and the middle seat is that it's *extremely* difficult to near-impossible to get any carseat installed securely back there (well in the middle seat, specifically). I had to move the carseat over to the side recently because it was just getting too loose and unsafe. We had it inspected by the police dept, where an officer helped get it in really tight the first time, but I can't get it secure anymore. Either way, with another kid on the way, we're looking at having two carseats in the back in which case we would have to use both the rear passenger and driver seats and leave the middle open regardless.


I sorta want to get rid of the Camry but a combination of laziness and having no experience selling (or buying) new OR used cars is the major obstacle stopping me right now - I just have no idea where to even begin to start... I've been considering the Mazda 5 (my brother has one and I like it) but my wife (and her parents) seem to want us to get an Odyssey. I feel like the Rav4 will get kind of crazy with two kids in carseats. And if we ever plan on having more kids than that, it definitely isn't going to work.

That said, any advice or recommendations on what we should do here? I'm not quite sure we're ready to transition fully to a one-car family just yet (there are one-off instances where having the second car around makes sense but I will have to give this more thought).

[Goldielocks]

Take the Camry to a used car dealer for a purchase price.
List it at that plus $1500...   Sell it via on-line ad (auto trader, craigslist).  It should go fast at that price.

OR -- get it painted at a MAACO type (low cost) autobody shop, and price it at the cost of the paint job + $2500.
A very well priced used car will sell for close to the asking price, if mechanical condition is good.

Repeat for the RAV4.
----------------------------------------

For the Mazda5,  just figure out what you can afford, cash, and then test drive all the ones "private sale" in that price range or a little over.  Take the best 2 to a mechanic you trust, or the best one to TWO mechanics that you know nothing of, and pay the inspection fees.   

If it looks good, buy it, maybe negotiate down if it needs some minor work.

This is a quickly depreciating asset.  As long as you spend what you determine you can afford, then overpaying slightly for a privately sold, but sound mechanically, car is not a terrible thing -- you will be driving it far past the depreciation years anyway..

[chemistk]

According to kelly blue book, assuming your car is equipped with standard equipment for its trim and has ~150,000 miles, you can expect about $1,200 to $1,500 by selling it private party. Selling on Craigslist is very straightforward: take good picures, write a good description, show the car, receive payment, sign over title (obviously very simplified). I wold encourage you to take this as an opportunity to transition to one car, you camry isn't getting any younger.

The question you and your wife need to ask yourselves is: What do we want out of a car? Right now, your RAV4 fits your needs. You own it, it will accommodate both your kids (the door seats aren't the worst things in the world), and can still haul other things in the trunk. Do you need more space? Are other people in your car wit both the kids? Will you be taking road trips?  If no to any of these, your current car will be more than adequate. If you can find a really good reason for the van, then get a used one with the expectation that you won't be buying another car for a long time.

[jeromedawg]

According to kelly blue book, assuming your car is equipped with standard equipment for its trim and has ~150,000 miles, you can expect about $1,200 to $1,500 by selling it private party. Selling on Craigslist is very straightforward: take good picures, write a good description, show the car, receive payment, sign over title (obviously very simplified). I wold encourage you to take this as an opportunity to transition to one car, you camry isn't getting any younger.

The question you and your wife need to ask yourselves is: What do we want out of a car? Right now, your RAV4 fits your needs. You own it, it will accommodate both your kids (the door seats aren't the worst things in the world), and can still haul other things in the trunk. Do you need more space? Are other people in your car wit both the kids? Will you be taking road trips?  If no to any of these, your current car will be more than adequate. If you can find a really good reason for the van, then get a used one with the expectation that you won't be buying another car for a long time.

Almost forgot - the Camry has over 200k miles on it. The Rav4 has around 80k or so... that is true - transitioning to one car would probably be better at this point since we barely ever drive the Camry.

As far as what we need, it definitely will accommodate both the kids and we'll have room in the trunk. I guess one foreseeable issue is whenever my wife goes out or visits her parents, I'm not sure what that will look like if I need to go out or do anything. We generally do go on road trips with the Rav4 (up to the Bay Area a couple times a year). I'm not sure how that'll look with two kids - my wife also likes sitting in the back with our son whenever I drive, or vice-versa. We feel more comfortable since they're younger - if they were older we wouldn't mind as much. Either way, it'll be pretty cramped trying to sit back there with two car seats in the back. I guess we can just leave it alone at this point and see how we do at least with the Rav4 and hauling both kids. I'll take my time with the Camry and do research. I'm not in the hugest rush to offload it. Something else I was considering was donating it to a local charity that I'd love to support.

[MayDay]

*if* you are getting a bigger car, just get a van.  All the slightly bigger than a rav4 type cars don't give much more room, cost a lot more, and/or have just as bad fuel economy as a van.

But I'd hold tight for now.

[zolotiyeruki]

Yes, you can do 2 kids in a sedan or small SUV.  Yes, it'll also be a pain in the rear.

We got our first Odyssey shortly after we had our 2nd child.  Absolutely zero regrets.  It's a fantastic vehicle.  Easy to get kids (and adults) in and out, tons of cargo space, reasonably efficient, very comfortable, very reliable.

It's kinda like the old saying about IBM ("nobody ever got fired for buying IBM")--you can't go wrong with an Odyssey.

[catccc]

We do our family of 4 in a Toyota Matrix and it works really well.  My sister has a family of 4 (twins) in a Mazda 3 and it also works really well.  I would not get an SUV or minivan for 4 people.  IMO it's not worth the additional cost of the larger vehicle when you aren't going to regularly use the additional seats.  If you don't need the seats, you are getting into clown car territory.  Esp. since you already have a RAV4.

[ketchup]

It's kinda like the old saying about IBM ("nobody ever got fired for buying IBM")--you can't go wrong with an Odyssey.

*does not apply to Lotus Notes

[zolotiyeruki]

It's kinda like the old saying about IBM ("nobody ever got fired for buying IBM")--you can't go wrong with an Odyssey.

*does not apply to Lotus Notes

Ugh, now you're giving me flashbacks to the job where we had to use Slowtus Notes.  Do NOT miss that.

[ketchup]

It's kinda like the old saying about IBM ("nobody ever got fired for buying IBM")--you can't go wrong with an Odyssey.

*does not apply to Lotus Notes

Ugh, now you're giving me flashbacks to the job where we had to use Slowtus Notes.  Do NOT miss that.

At work, we just upgraded to IBM Notes 9 Social Edition (yes, it's actually called that).  They removed the "Lotus" branding with this one.  Because that's what was wrong with it.

So yes, there are some of us that still use Notes.  There are dozens of us!

[mm1970]

I've got 2 kids!  I have a Toyota Matrix and a Honda Civic!

1.  You can put the baby seat rear facing in the side.  It is just FINE. (Civic)
2.  You can put the baby seat rear facing in the middle if you can do it securely. (Matrix)  Might need to choose the correct seat so the *other* car seat fits fine.

It's not at ALL crazy with two kids in carseats in a normal car.  Now, when you are talking 3 or 4... (been there, done that).  Right now my "tribe" is talking about music lessons that are coming up (they are free, they bus the kids there from school but you gotta pick them up).  My friend M says "my hubby can pick up all 4 kids on Mondays!" (They have a Nissan Versa), and then said "we need someone for Thursday!"  I said "well...we can't pick up 4 kids on Thursday because we'll have our 4 year old.  That's six people."  It may work out, one of the kids has flag football on Thursday.  Only one of the carpool-mates of the 4 families has a minivan (Sienna).

You don't need a minivan!  Not going to lie...I've been Jonesing for one for YEARS, but I just can't justify it for the 3 times a year that it would be "nice to have".  By the time the 2006 Matrix dies, I'll be past the age where I need a minivan.

[jeromedawg]

I've got 2 kids!  I have a Toyota Matrix and a Honda Civic!

1.  You can put the baby seat rear facing in the side.  It is just FINE. (Civic)
2.  You can put the baby seat rear facing in the middle if you can do it securely. (Matrix)  Might need to choose the correct seat so the *other* car seat fits fine.

It's not at ALL crazy with two kids in carseats in a normal car.  Now, when you are talking 3 or 4... (been there, done that).  Right now my "tribe" is talking about music lessons that are coming up (they are free, they bus the kids there from school but you gotta pick them up).  My friend M says "my hubby can pick up all 4 kids on Mondays!" (They have a Nissan Versa), and then said "we need someone for Thursday!"  I said "well...we can't pick up 4 kids on Thursday because we'll have our 4 year old.  That's six people."  It may work out, one of the kids has flag football on Thursday.  Only one of the carpool-mates of the 4 families has a minivan (Sienna).

You don't need a minivan!  Not going to lie...I've been Jonesing for one for YEARS, but I just can't justify it for the 3 times a year that it would be "nice to have".  By the time the 2006 Matrix dies, I'll be past the age where I need a minivan.

Thanks, so would you feel comfortable driving around with two kids (under 2yrs old) in the back and no adult back there sitting with them? I'm not sure we're as comfortable with the idea given that we already ride in the back with our 1yr old as it is. Also, in the Rav4, both car seats would likely end up being on each side and not the middle. I've just found that the middle seat is the biggest PITA to get installed securely and for the long-run (I adjusted it once after finding it had loosened up after the officer at the police dept helped install it in the middle). There have been lots of complaints especially about the Rav4 in this area... of course, had my wife known this (she got the car before we were married or ever thinking about kids), she probably wouldn't have gotten it :P

[mm1970]

I've got 2 kids!  I have a Toyota Matrix and a Honda Civic!

1.  You can put the baby seat rear facing in the side.  It is just FINE. (Civic)
2.  You can put the baby seat rear facing in the middle if you can do it securely. (Matrix)  Might need to choose the correct seat so the *other* car seat fits fine.

It's not at ALL crazy with two kids in carseats in a normal car.  Now, when you are talking 3 or 4... (been there, done that).  Right now my "tribe" is talking about music lessons that are coming up (they are free, they bus the kids there from school but you gotta pick them up).  My friend M says "my hubby can pick up all 4 kids on Mondays!" (They have a Nissan Versa), and then said "we need someone for Thursday!"  I said "well...we can't pick up 4 kids on Thursday because we'll have our 4 year old.  That's six people."  It may work out, one of the kids has flag football on Thursday.  Only one of the carpool-mates of the 4 families has a minivan (Sienna).

You don't need a minivan!  Not going to lie...I've been Jonesing for one for YEARS, but I just can't justify it for the 3 times a year that it would be "nice to have".  By the time the 2006 Matrix dies, I'll be past the age where I need a minivan.

Thanks, so would you feel comfortable driving around with two kids (under 2yrs old) in the back and no adult back there sitting with them? I'm not sure we're as comfortable with the idea given that we already ride in the back with our 1yr old as it is. Also, in the Rav4, both car seats would likely end up being on each side and not the middle. I've just found that the middle seat is the biggest PITA to get installed securely and for the long-run (I adjusted it once after finding it had loosened up after the officer at the police dept helped install it in the middle). There have been lots of complaints especially about the Rav4 in this area... of course, had my wife known this (she got the car before we were married or ever thinking about kids), she probably wouldn't have gotten it :P

Yes, I'd absolutely feel fine about having both kids in the back with no adult.  I don't think either one of us have ever ridden in the back with either kid (ours are 6 years apart), with a singular exception: when my 9 month old had surgery, and it was a 2.5 hour drive home after he came out of recovery.

(The other standard exception is when someone is visiting and there are 5 people in the car).  Now, the ability to fit there will vary on your size and the carseats' sizes.  Before I lost the last 10 lbs of baby weight, *I* would not have been able to fit in the back of the Civic or Matrix with the carseats that we had at the time.  They were BIG.  Well, maybe I could have fit with the bucket seat, but the convertibles...no.  I have routinely squeezed in the back between the convertible seat and a booster.  It's not comfy.  You don't do it unless you have no choice.

I'd wager that the VAST majority of parents don't ride in the back with their babies or kids.  99% of the driving we have ever done with the kids is with one parent driving, and kid or two in the back.

FWIW, I had my 2nd kid rear facing until just over aged two, and the only reason I switched him forward is because he started kicking his brother in the face.

[zolotiyeruki]

I'm curious--why do you feel the need to sit in the back with your kids?

[Goldielocks]

I've got 2 kids!  I have a Toyota Matrix and a Honda Civic!

1.  You can put the baby seat rear facing in the side.  It is just FINE. (Civic)
2.  You can put the baby seat rear facing in the middle if you can do it securely. (Matrix)  Might need to choose the correct seat so the *other* car seat fits fine.

It's not at ALL crazy with two kids in carseats in a normal car.  Now, when you are talking 3 or 4... (been there, done that).  Right now my "tribe" is talking about music lessons that are coming up (they are free, they bus the kids there from school but you gotta pick them up).  My friend M says "my hubby can pick up all 4 kids on Mondays!" (They have a Nissan Versa), and then said "we need someone for Thursday!"  I said "well...we can't pick up 4 kids on Thursday because we'll have our 4 year old.  That's six people."  It may work out, one of the kids has flag football on Thursday.  Only one of the carpool-mates of the 4 families has a minivan (Sienna).

You don't need a minivan!  Not going to lie...I've been Jonesing for one for YEARS, but I just can't justify it for the 3 times a year that it would be "nice to have".  By the time the 2006 Matrix dies, I'll be past the age where I need a minivan.

Thanks, so would you feel comfortable driving around with two kids (under 2yrs old) in the back and no adult back there sitting with them?

most people do

[jeromedawg]

I'm curious--why do you feel the need to sit in the back with your kids?

I don't know - I guess we've just got used to doing that. It was suggested that one adult sits in the back with the kid at least when we brought him home from the hospital. It just became habit for us.

[MayDay]

I'm curious--why do you feel the need to sit in the back with your kids?

This, to me, is an anxious first time parent thing, and an Asian thing.

In the town I grew up in, with a sizable Asian population, it was 100% Asian moms (never dads) who did this. I assume it's cultural.

[MayDay]

Regarding a kid sitting on each side of the back seat, um, yes.

The whole baby in the middle thing is safest. And then most parents promptly realize what an epic pain it is, and move the kid to the side. Or else they have another kid, and definitely move each kid into a side seat. Even with a van, you can't have two kids in middle seats.

I mean this in the nicest way: you are very cute, but you need to move out of first time parent land, where you do everything perfectly to keep your precious snowflake safe. You're about to have two. You will go crazy if you try to keep up with this.

But if what you want is a big back seat with room for teo kids and one adult, get a new(ish) Camry or accord. The back seats are massive. You won't be able to sit in the back with both kids in a van (one will be in the way back) but you will in a Camry/accord sized car