Shor:
I went through an filled out the spreadsheet recommended for case studies. I do want to point out some values are low because I currently spend a ton of time at my boyfriend's place (so, for example, if I weren't with him so much, my electricity bill would be higher. I also canceled my internet because of the same reason, but it would usually be $40).
Thank you for the advice on my orthodontics. That is what I was thinking, so I'll go ahead and do that.
I didn't realize that about the IRAs, so thank you! I also liked someone else's suggestion about keeping investments separate, too. It wouldn't compound quite as quickly, but letting him have his own account would almost certainly give him a greater sense of accomplishment, and I think that would be great for encouraging him as he works on his frugality.
Oh, I know it. :( He really managed to mess up his life financially, and he's just a few years older than me. It boggles my mind how he ever thought some of these purchases/loans were a good idea. I can't really provide many details on his plan since he has not run through it with me in great detail, although he may be willing to post a case study of his own. I introduced him to the MMM blog and he has been reading it and been receptive. There have been a couple times where he's told me he read something on the blog and then we were able to discuss it together, which I think is fantastic. I've been trying really hard and I truly do believe he's doing significantly better. What I've been struggling with is helping him without coming off as controlling or negative, and praising him when he does make good choices. I thought I was balancing this properly, but just yesterday he told me he was angry I was telling him what to do, so now I'm backing off. I read an MMM article today that mentioned criticizing every poor spending choice as it's made is not the way to do it, which I admit I've done a few times (one of these was critical since he had signed a contract without my knowledge that would have put him a few more thousand dollars in debt... I almost had a heart attack upon finding out, but thankfully this was around when he had just started realizing how bad his habits were and he was able to get out of the situation. We have since mutually agreed that we will discuss any purchases over $10 together before we make them). So like the article recommended, I'm going to try to focus more on emphasizing the why (getting free from his job is a prime motivator for him) and help him think more on how delaying instant gratification will get him what he really wants in the future. He still has some concerns I'm asking him to live like a pauper for years, and I continue to struggle to communicate that that's not what I'm doing, I'm just asking him to live very conservatively while he battles immense amounts of high interest debt. He's very smart and good at listening, and as mentioned he's been doing a lot better, so I have faith in him. I just need to work on my own skills at communicating these things to him.
You're absolutely right about that guy thing as I mentioned about what he was trying to hide before. :) Can you tell me as a male who experiences this urge the best way I could be supportive and encouraging of self restraint, and how to react to bad financial decisions in a way that would not just make you want to hide it more? I truly just want to help him in a loving way.
Your next paragraph is very helpful for that. I completely understand that perspective. I guess my hang up is that, as you noted, this should be done only once the money has been built up. I'd be totally okay with some more purchases from him if he had the money for it, but right now he is in a ton of debt and will be for years. I know if I tell him to have a rather Spartan lifestyle until he gets the high interest debt down, that would be a long time of what he thinks is deprivation. I don't want to do that to him. On the other hand, if I am more permissive, I'm worried he'll start being tempted to get into old habits. One reward trip to Taco Bell for lunch on a week may grow into two, etc. How can I let him play enough for him to be happy but not so much he doesn't keep hitting his debt hard?
Thanks for your advice on the car and biking. I know I won't be able to ditch the car completely, but I hope to lower those gas costs a lot by biking to work as much as I can. I'll be posting the case study here for you.
http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=38897612353048923335Hodor:
Thank you very much for your encouraging comments! :) It makes me feel very happy that a fellow Mustachian thinks I'm doing all right. It can be hard to judge these things on one's own. I did address a few of these comments in my reply to the first gentleman, but will tackle the rest here.
Did you choose a savings account over a different type of investing account in the event of an emergency arising and me not being able to pay the entire debt in time?
I'm very relieved to hear that even such a low sum as 4-6k is enough to snowball and keep me going until I can supplement it by cracking into retirement accounts.
I'm really glad things have gone so well for your fiancee financially! I know it can be really hard for some people to get out of the consumer haze. You have a great idea in letting him have all of his separate things to manage and care for and see progress on all on his own. I have thought about giving him an allowance before like you mentioned, but I'm worried it sounds like I'm trying to run his life. After an, an allowance is traditionally something a parent gives a child. I don't want him to feel insulted or belittled by me telling him how much of his money he can use per month. I do, however, think it's an excellent idea if he would be okay with it. Have you tried this yourself with your lady? If so, how did you present it to her?
Thank you again. :D
Human:
I appreciate your advice. I found the time to FI part of the spreadsheet, but I feel like it would be very inaccurate until I end up setting up all my investing, since that should provide me with significantly larger returns.
I was lucky in that I came from a family that taught me to live off of the least amount of money possible. I hated it as a child, but it instilled a strong drive to save in me. Most people don't get that, so I think it's great you started doing it when you did, especially since so many people never do and slave away until 65!
I get where you're coming from with my boyfriend. I would be lying if I said this didn't concern me at all. Right now I'm committed to working through it with him, helping and encouraging him where I can, and I really do believe he can do it. He's an honest, hard-working person, and while he was really good at making debt in his past, he was (and is) also very good at paying it (in that he always used to make his minimum payments diligently - now he understands he wants to pay them off much faster). He believes in honor and being straight laced - the sort of guy who can't tell a lie to save his life, and can't sleep at night if he thinks he did something wrong. I know he is completely capable of holding himself accountable at this point, so long as he gets encouragement.
I calculated an average of $20/mo in fuel for the car. I don't drive very much. I'll go ahead and hang on to it until it dies and only then will I replace it, as someone else advised me to do. Thank you!
FINate:
Thank you very much for giving me the investing advice. The reason I chose a traditional IRA in my theorycrafting is founded upon this analysis:
http://www.madfientist.com/traditional-ira-vs-roth-ira/ Won't I still be in an even lower tax bracket when I retire?
I appreciate the cautionary tale. I'll definitely keep an eye on him and if he remains vigilant. I suppose this is youthful optimism and love talking, but I really think we can make it together. I know we'll disagree on things like everyone does, but I don't doubt for a moment we'll be able to figure them out together. Would I be thrilled if I had to start eating his expenses? No, of course not. We've already actually gone through the vacation thing, though, and although he was initially disappointed I was not willing to do the expensive trip he was hoping for, we ended up having a great vacation near home, and he later thanked me profusely for saving him money, so he's nowhere near stuck in his old habits. I suspect I will end up paying more money than I would if I were single, but I also know I would rather do that and be a little bit poorer financially than have more money and be without him and much richer for his companionship. We'll see how it goes. :)
Mozar:
We may well end up waiting that long. It's hard to say. We haven't set a date or anything yet. But my love for him is not contingent on his finances, and even if he slips up some more, it won't change my desire to be with him. This is not conditional for me, although I understand that it was for you since cooperative money management really is very important for a harmonious relationship and it definitely seems like in your case you dodged a bullet.