Sell my mustang?

[ESCH]

Hi, I'm sure most of your instant reactions to this question is duh, of course you should sell your mustang, but I'm having trouble following through. I have only recently started converting into a Mustachian, and I bought it three years ago on a 5 year zero interest car loan and have paid down 18,500 of the original 33,000 so I still owe 14,500. It only has 25,000 miles on it. I moved close to work so I barely put any miles on it these days.  Obviously it was a stupid decision that I made, but most of the stupidity is already a sunk cost, as it is too late to reverse the new-car depreciation At this point, I would be only be paying 14,500 more for a car with only 25,000 miles, which is not a terrible deal.

Part of me wants to sell it and buy a cheaper, more economical used car where I will save on gas (although not a large amount since I don't drive it that much), save on insurance, and not have to pay down the last 14,500.

Part of me wants to keep it as I don't have a huge amount left to pay, I don't drive it much so it will last me a long, long time and I do in-fact get some enjoyment out if it. The fact that I made an initial stupid decision in buying a new and expense car can't be reversed. If the car lasts me another 15 years, the remaining payments are equal to under 1k a year.

Thoughts?

[VladTheImpaler]

Hey there!
As a fellow car guy and former Mustang GT owner I feel you man.
Without knowing your age and marital status and other details about your financial situation it's hard to say.
The 0% APR auto loan is great! The only way to beat that is to buy a cheap fuel eff car for cash.
The biggest saving would probably be in the reduction of your auto insurance cost, going from an iconic v8 muscle car.)
It's definitely a personal choice and comes down to lifestyle choices.

Speaking strictly in financial terms: Selling the Mustang for the most you could get and then buy a good used cash car (Japanese, Toyota, Honda early 2000's) would probably end up being the choice.
Speaking man to man: If you are single...the Mustang is going to make a much better impression than a cash car beater. No matter what women tell you. First impressions are important in everything and unfortunately not everyone is going to give you a chance to explain what Mustachianism is and why it is so great.
I'm sharing this because I'm learning this now myself.
Hope that helps some.

[arebelspy]

The fact that I made an initial stupid decision in buying a new and expense car can't be reversed.

Right.  It's a sunk cost.

So now the thing to consider is: if it was already sold, and you had the cash, would you repurchase it at that price?  Or would you buy something cheaper?

[obstinate]

If you are single...the Mustang is going to make a much better impression than a cash car beater.

Only half true. First, the studies that are out there mostly show that women are impressed by cars that convey wealth and status. Muscle cars don't really do this very well, since they are a bit low class. If we were talking about a 911 or a CLK Black, that would be one thing. But a Mustang is barely more expensive or high status than a Camry.

This also tends to only apply to first impressions. In dating these days, you don't typically pick a woman up at her house. You meet at a bar, cafe, restaurant or what have you. So the car you're in will in all likelihood not be part of your first impression. If you haven't made a good enough impression by the end of dinner or your first conversation to overcome the car factor, you probably need to work on your game and/or she's just not the one for you.

Also, not to denigrate women who prefer men with fancy cars (the same studies show that all men care about is physical looks for first impressions, which is if anything even more shallow), but consider the type of person you'd really want to attract. Other things being equal, the car will probably be less of a factor for this type of person.

[frugaliknowit]

Financially speaking, you should definitely sell the car.

Some other thoughts:

I would weigh in on percentage of income.  If your income is say, $200K per year and you enjoy the car, "doanworryboudit" because it's just not that important.  If your income is say, $50K, the decision about the car is significant.

[prognastat]

If you are single...the Mustang is going to make a much better impression than a cash car beater.

Only half true. First, the studies that are out there mostly show that women are impressed by cars that convey wealth and status. Muscle cars don't really do this very well, since they are a bit low class. If we were talking about a 911 or a CLK Black, that would be one thing. But a Mustang is barely more expensive or high status than a Camry.

This also tends to only apply to first impressions. In dating these days, you don't typically pick a woman up at her house. You meet at a bar, cafe, restaurant or what have you. So the car you're in will in all likelihood not be part of your first impression. If you haven't made a good enough impression by the end of dinner or your first conversation to overcome the car factor, you probably need to work on your game and/or she's just not the one for you.

Also, not to denigrate women who prefer men with fancy cars (the same studies show that all men care about is physical looks for first impressions, which is if anything even more shallow), but consider the type of person you'd really want to attract. Other things being equal, the car will probably be less of a factor for this type of person.

At the same time if your find a partner where having an expensive car was an influence to their interest and first impression of you would that bode well for them agreeing with any mustachian plans you might be considering since you are on these forums. Sure it might be easier to make a good first impression, but are those the people you want to be making a good first impression on?

[lbmustache]

Financially speaking, you should definitely sell the car.

Some other thoughts:

I would weigh in on percentage of income.  If your income is say, $200K per year and you enjoy the car, "doanworryboudit" because it's just not that important.  If your income is say, $50K, the decision about the car is significant.

Agree with all of this. If your income is high and you are really attached to the car (your post doesn't sound like it...) then keep it. It sounds like you like the car but are okay with selling it, which is probably what I would do - not knowing your income level.

[ESCH]

Thanks all. My income  levels are pretty healthy - my salaried job pays 110k a year, I have a side business that made 58k in '14 and 69k in '15, and my wife makes about 60k a year as a nurse. My net worth is 378k, and I'm about to turn 33. I only recently started making this money so I'm confident in continuing to grow my NW quickly. So it certainly was not a necessity, but just a way to grow my stache a little quicker. Giving up my baby would also make a strong statement to my wife who I am trying to convert over into the mustachian ways of life.

So I made the decision to sell. I found the KBB value as a trade in was about 22,900, and I had my eye on a '13 Focus, also with 27k miles, that was listed for 13,200. I went into the dealership with the goal of getting 10,000 more in trade-in for the Mustang than the Focus and dropping my balance for the car from 14,500 to around 5k. However, the dealer dropped a bomb - the mustang has a recall out for airbags going off randomly, and there won't be parts to fix it until Mid 2017. If they buy it, they can't sell it until its fixed. I can't sell private party. They called several wholesalers who offered 16k. I balked at everything and told them I would not trade in a defective car THEY sold me at a huge discount to true fair market value because of a defect THEY can't fix. At one point the salesman got a call and said that they had found a wholesaler who would offer 17k, which I'm sure was a setup all along between the salesman and the other dealership employees. I also mentioned to the salesman that I felt the car was potentially a goldmine because it has a known defect that can't be fixed and they won't purchase back at a fair price so if the airbag does go off, I'd have a huge lawsuit. I'm seldom on the highway with the car, so I still feel relatively safe. With only 14,500 left on the loan, it is not terrible. I keep it in the garage during the winter when all the kids bikes are put away, so after cutting down on all the unnecesary trips I use it for, I could have a car I enjoy for a long, long time.

[arebelspy]

Hmm, that's quite interesting.  What state are you in?

[Cyaphas]

For the low miles and how nice the car sounds, assuming your KBB numbers are correct, you should easily be able to ask 22k and get 19-20k off of craigslist or cars.com. A wash and some armor all does wonders. I would then take that cash and wander around on craigslist finding a Leaf or something similar, maybe a focus, a Prius, accord etc... Another suggestion may be to see how long you can go with out it. Every month you don't have a vehicle is one more month with no car insurance on said vehicle.

I would avoid dealers at all costs. Most of them are dens of evil.

One of the things that I don't see discussed here is buying a classic vehicle instead of a modern fuel efficient. It doesn't sound like you put many miles on your mustang. I think you'd be really surprised how nice of a classic car you could get that wouldn't depreciate in value. Just a thought.

[Metric Mouse]

One of the things that I don't see discussed here is buying a classic vehicle instead of a modern fuel efficient. It doesn't sound like you put many miles on your mustang. I think you'd be really surprised how nice of a classic car you could get that wouldn't depreciate in value. Just a thought.

This is an interesting thought. I've noticed the same math, and have been tempeted by a few nice examples of classic vehicles in my area.  The thought that is holding me back would be the lack of amenities/technology/safety features and the increase of the price of keeping it up.  For example, if you don't drive your car much, when you do it's probably because you NEED to in the sense that you're hauling four people or a large amount of something, or the weather is too cold/rainy/snowy to bike or walk. So at that point things like heaters that work, windshield wipers and defrosters that work well, traction control and power steering and airbags and seatbelts for all, radios with more than one band etc. may be worth the small cost difference.

But maybe I'm just justifying owning a vehicle to myself.


In reference to recalls - that sucks. I had a similar issue with my car. Honda sent me a very nice letter informing me there was a recall with my vehicle and that it could be fixed at any Honda dealer at my convenience etc. etc. At the bottom of the page-long letter it gives a one-sentence explination of the issue: if the airbag deploys in a crash IT COULD KILL ME.  Seems to me that wee bit of info could have been made clear earlier in the letter....

Completely off topic though.

[lightning hippo]

At your income level, I'd say keep it if it makes you happy.
It's okay to spend a little extra money on things that bring you joy when you've got your finances in order.

[2Birds1Stone]

If it's a 5.0 with 6mt trans keep it.

If it's a 3.6 or an a/t get rid of it.

[AZDude]

Thanks all. My income  levels are pretty healthy - my salaried job pays 110k a year, I have a side business that made 58k in '14 and 69k in '15, and my wife makes about 60k a year as a nurse. My net worth is 378k, and I'm about to turn 33. I only recently started making this money so I'm confident in continuing to grow my NW quickly. So it certainly was not a necessity, but just a way to grow my stache a little quicker. Giving up my baby would also make a strong statement to my wife who I am trying to convert over into the mustachian ways of life.

So I made the decision to sell. I found the KBB value as a trade in was about 22,900, and I had my eye on a '13 Focus, also with 27k miles, that was listed for 13,200. I went into the dealership with the goal of getting 10,000 more in trade-in for the Mustang than the Focus and dropping my balance for the car from 14,500 to around 5k. However, the dealer dropped a bomb - the mustang has a recall out for airbags going off randomly, and there won't be parts to fix it until Mid 2017. If they buy it, they can't sell it until its fixed. I can't sell private party. They called several wholesalers who offered 16k. I balked at everything and told them I would not trade in a defective car THEY sold me at a huge discount to true fair market value because of a defect THEY can't fix. At one point the salesman got a call and said that they had found a wholesaler who would offer 17k, which I'm sure was a setup all along between the salesman and the other dealership employees. I also mentioned to the salesman that I felt the car was potentially a goldmine because it has a known defect that can't be fixed and they won't purchase back at a fair price so if the airbag does go off, I'd have a huge lawsuit. I'm seldom on the highway with the car, so I still feel relatively safe. With only 14,500 left on the loan, it is not terrible. I keep it in the garage during the winter when all the kids bikes are put away, so after cutting down on all the unnecesary trips I use it for, I could have a car I enjoy for a long, long time.

I think the dealer is more full of shit than normal for a car salesman. I would call around all the local ford dealers and see who can fix the recall issue(I saw nothing in a quick google search that says the parts will not be ready for another year). Get the recall fixed, then sell private party, take the cash, and buy a decent used car.

Any dealer you call, make sure you give the impression that you love your mustang and are not interested in selling. That way they are straight with you about the repair. Dealers make money on these repairs, since they charge Ford directly, so they should *want* to fix your car.

[CmFtns]

For what it's worth, while I am great in almost all other areas, I chose to keep my car that I bought outright for 30k before the hardcore mustacian years. This is pretty much the only stupid excuse I make for myself and in the big grand plan... that money is a drop in the bucket so I live with my decision and will work another few months.

[Noahjoe]

You make enough money that it really doesn't matter, but here's what I did when I sold my ultra luxury F-150 Lariat (which was beautiful. heated/cooled seats, leather, extended cab, tuxedo black. Mmm):

I calculated the cost of ownership for 5 years, 10 years, 30 years on having a car that new (a car payment) and paying for things like new tires/premium fuel (or more fuel), and increased insurance. My F-150 cost me over 600 bucks a month. That was something like 450,000 from now until my 65th birthday.

I sold the truck. I make 150k/year and couldn't justify it. I now drive a 1998 Honda Civic that my 4 year old calls "The Hulk" and thinks is the coolest car in the world. I win 3 ways:

1. I have way more money.
2. My kid thinks it's awesome.
3. When the kids are in/on/around it with sticks/toys/muddy boots, I don't need to care. it's almost 20 years old.

Actually, make that 4 ways. Having a shiny awesome care is cool. Until someone doors it. and then you scratch it. And then the kids spill something in it. You're constantly washing/detailing/fawning over it. Not worth it IMO.

[BFGirl]

Given the liability with the airbags, I find it strange that they wouldn't have parts available to replace the defective one for another year.  I'd do some more research.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/10/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-takata-air-bag-recall/index.htm
https://owner.ford.com/tools/account/maintenance/recalls.html

[ShoulderThingThatGoesUp]

Honda is giving me a free rental until they get the parts for the same airbag issue. See if Ford will do the same.

[TheThirstyStag]

New Edge GT owner here (4.6L, 5-spd manual).

It was a silly unmustachian thing when I bought it years ago.  Now it's been pretty mustachian for me.  It has been BY FAR the most inexpensive vehicle to maintain/repair that I've ever owned.  Gotta love that taxicab/police cruiser engine.  Super reliable and parts are plentiful and cheap.  I do all my maintenance as well, and it's been cheap for me to insure.

Since it's still so insanely fun to drive all these years later, it helps keep my unmustachian vehicular wants at bay. 

YMMV, but for me, after accepting the sunk cost, holding onto it has been a financial boon to me.

[Giro]

Some dealers have the parts for the airbag.  I had my 2014 Shelby fixed.  I'm in Ohio.  I called four dealers before I found the parts.  All of the other dealers told me bullshit about how no one can get the parts.  Don't believe them.  Keep calling.

Since it's just a GT, I'd sell it.  If it was a Shelby, I'd keep it.  Mustang's do not hold value, again, unless it's a Shelby. 

And don't buy a car to impress a girl.  you'll wind up with the wrong kind of girl.  I'm a girl and I'm not impressed with a Mustang GT, or a 911 or a Benz.  Unless they are mine and do 1/4 miles in less than 10 sec.  None of those cars are 10 second cars.

WARNING - this post will provide no value to the OP or to anyone else except the first line. 

carry on.

[TheAnonOne]

I just sold a Mustang GT 6spd manual last sept with 50k miles on it for $20k

Just list it on craigslist.... private sell it, and be done with it.

[Jack]

One of the things that I don't see discussed here is buying a classic vehicle instead of a modern fuel efficient. It doesn't sound like you put many miles on your mustang. I think you'd be really surprised how nice of a classic car you could get that wouldn't depreciate in value. Just a thought.

This is an interesting thought. I've noticed the same math, and have been tempeted by a few nice examples of classic vehicles in my area.  The thought that is holding me back would be the lack of amenities/technology/safety features and the increase of the price of keeping it up.  For example, if you don't drive your car much, when you do it's probably because you NEED to in the sense that you're hauling four people or a large amount of something, or the weather is too cold/rainy/snowy to bike or walk. So at that point things like heaters that work, windshield wipers and defrosters that work well, traction control and power steering and airbags and seatbelts for all, radios with more than one band etc. may be worth the small cost difference.

Think of it this way: a car built in 1990 is 25 years old now. Who says a "classic" car can't have modern(-ish) amenities?

• Is a CRX a classic?
• Is an E30 BMW a classic?
• Is a 300ZX a classic?
• Is a C4 Corvette a classic?
• Is a Supra a classic?
• Is an NSX a classic?

[Forcus]

Thoughts:
- You make a bunch of money and appear to not spend much of it. I don't think the Mustang makes a dent. If you would otherwise keep it, I wouldn't worry about it. Unless you just feel guilty for having it. Trading straight up for a Focus you still wouldn't drive much doesn't make sense to me.
- Keep in mind the dealer didn't design the car so the airbag thing can't really be attributed to them. If they are telling the truth I can't blame them for not wanting to sit on non-moving inventory. If they are lying, of course, pin them to the wall. As far as availability on airbags goes, they may be being truthful if the airbags are on an allocation basis. My understanding are millions of vehicles are involved. It takes awhile for the supply chain to catch up.
- I don't know what you have (V6? GT? Manual?) but keep in mind the new style is out and has been out long enough for used ones to be available. I've found people citing KBB for the old style but stuff isn't selling and it's only worth what someone will pay for it. Personally the new style is so far ahead of the old I wouldn't even consider one. I'd take a turbo 4 '16 for $21k new over an 11-14 GT... at any price (that's me though).

[ESCH]

If it's a 5.0 with 6mt trans keep it.

If it's a 3.6 or an a/t get rid of it.

5.0/6mt - I'm at least smart enough to know that if your gonna get a muscle car, then actually get a muscle car ;)

[ESCH]

Thanks all for your comments. Giro, that is interesting to hear. In the morning I will start calling around to other dealers.

[neo von retorch]

My main piece of advice is to not yo-yo.

I have a long history of swapping out cars, and it's cost me a lot of money. I went from an Acura TL-S to a Mazda CX-5 to a Honda Fit Sport. And then I bought a 350Z on top of it, because... the Fit just felt so old and slow. In selling the Mustang, make sure you're really like the (economical) replacement. Maybe it's a Focus ST. Maybe it has something else "cool" that satisfies your itch. Just don't get something that you'll "resent" and feel like "I drive this now? Instead of a Mustang?!"

[WhoDey]

Before I became a mustachian I had a 97 cobra - I know its old, but I loved the style.  I went the total opposite way of mustachianism and actually modded the car heavily (forged engine/turbo/transmission/rear end) I loved the car, but came to my senses when I found this blog.

Speaking to sunk cost, I know that not only did the car depreciate, but all the modifications I added were now basically worthless.  I just bit the bullet and actually parted the car out.  Yes, I wound up with less money than if I would have just left it alone, but I wound up with more than if I sold it all together.

Anyways, enough with the dear diary.  But, if your value of the car is above what you have left to pay - just keep it.  Especially if it is a manual.  At least there is no interest!

[2Birds1Stone]

If it's a 5.0 with 6mt trans keep it.

If it's a 3.6 or an a/t get rid of it.

5.0/6mt - I'm at least smart enough to know that if your gonna get a muscle car, then actually get a muscle car ;)

Keep her dude! You have a VERY healthy income, don't drive a lot, and obviously have great taste in cars.

I just replaced a 2004 Nissan Sentra 5 AT with a 2008 Infinity g37s 6MT, AFTER finding MMM and hitting a 75% savings rate. I have 0 regrets and hope to enjoy her for MANY years to come.

[Cyaphas]

If it's a 5.0 with 6mt trans keep it.

If it's a 3.6 or an a/t get rid of it.

5.0/6mt - I'm at least smart enough to know that if your gonna get a muscle car, then actually get a muscle car ;)

I have the 310hp, V6, convertible. I got it because I thought it was a great balance of fuel efficiency, 30mpg, power and fun. I paid 19k for it in 2013. It's a 2011. I've had nothing but a great time putting 80k miles on it since.

[2Birds1Stone]

I have the 310hp, V6, convertible. I got it because I thought it was a great balance of fuel efficiency, 30mpg, power and fun. I paid 19k for it in 2013. It's a 2011. I've had nothing but a great time putting 80k miles on it since.

You drove 80,000 miles in 2-3 years?!?!

[Cyaphas]

Yes. My family is quite large and very spread out. There's a reason speed limits are 75 mph in Texas. When I purchased my Ford Focus when I was 19 I put 65K on it in a year. I worked in Eastern Washington, my daughter/family/friends lived in Portland and Seattle. Working 4-10's  gave me a nice 3 day weekend. I've spent a lot of time behind a wheel.

I drove from Bellingham, WA to Madison, WI in 28 hours straight one time. I will not be doing that again.... Ever. I think my brother beat me with 27 hours one trip.

[Tjat]

I'd sell it. Also note that option 3 is rationalizing that you should kee a car you barely drive by driving it even less

[KarefulKactus15]

My main piece of advice is to not yo-yo.

I have a long history of swapping out cars, and it's cost me a lot of money. I went from an Acura TL-S to a Mazda CX-5 to a Honda Fit Sport. And then I bought a 350Z on top of it, because... the Fit just felt so old and slow. In selling the Mustang, make sure you're really like the (economical) replacement. Maybe it's a Focus ST. Maybe it has something else "cool" that satisfies your itch. Just don't get something that you'll "resent" and feel like "I drive this now? Instead of a Mustang?!"

I second this.  dont yoyo.   At your income, if you like the car, keep it.  If it doesnt meet your needs for passenger or towing capacity sell it.  But dont sell it for mustachianism if you really really like the car.  You will be resentful.  Ive been down that road and it cost more money in the long run.