The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: RumBurgundy on September 15, 2021, 07:59:19 AM
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Looking for any general and some specific advice from anyone familiar with living in the climate (and culture) of New England, specifically Vermont.
I'm a late 30s FIREtiree who has always lived in the deep south of the U.S. I have spent the last 5 years semi-retired while managing my own 6 rental units in Louisiana. I'm in the process of selling those off due to frustration with my current city's crime/corruption/failing infrastructure. Since I spend more time outdoors both working and in leisure than I used to when I had a corporate job, the often oppressive heat of the summers has gotten to be too much of a constraint for me. Also to be frank, the political and religious atmosphere in the South/Bible belt has also reached an untenable level and I've reached my limit with red state living.
I've been interested in living in New England for awhile and I've had some visits to friends there in different seasons of the year but I've been concerned about 1) just tolerating a full winter there on a personal level and 2) heating a house efficiently using completely unfamiliar systems than I'm used to in the south. I took a trip to New England this year to look at some houses and visit some of the smaller towns. My partner and I unexpectedly went a little crazy for Vermont and are under contract on a house in central Vermont now.
Admittedly, mid-summer in VT is damn idyllic, I don't care who you are. It's the winter that gives me pause. I have seen snow before but just barely. I am used to winter lows being in the high 20s degF for a few nights a year and then being mostly in the 30s/40s for a month or two at most. I've never owned a house with baseboard heat, or a working fire place, or a furnace. Or heat pump. Or a basement. The most I've had to do to "winterize" a home was to drip the faucets a few nights a year. I own one coat that I call "heavy" but I doubt a New Englander would agree.
All of this to say, I'm looking for recommendations and suggestions on how to make the transition as seamless as possible. Any good links or lists on how to run/maintain a home in terms of heating and efficiency (my VT house has electric baseboard heat and a woodstove that allegedly keeps the whole house warm during winter)? How to dress appropriately for the winter (ie what gear to buy or not buy, because I've been to the outfitter stores up there and people be a little gear-crazy up there if I'm being honest but maybe that's by necessity)? What kind of snow tires to get (I currently have a Honda CRV), and whether I need anything else for my car. What temperature to keep the house at when I'm not there (I likely will take a break from the VT winter at some point and snowbird for a few weeks in February at least). My house inspector told me emphatically that the chimney needs an annual cleaning and inspection and that it is *not* a DIY job, and I made a mental note I'd ask the FIRE crowd online about that one. My new basement is completely unfinished and I'd be interested in hearing and seeing what others here have done to create extra living space with their basements.
My new house is within a small community that shares the cost of snowplowing as well as maintenance of a community well, so at least I won't need to own a vehicle big enough to have a plow on the front. I just don't want to make any big newb mistakes with the winter. Thankful for any help here!
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You might want to chat with @FLBiker, who has moved from Florida to Nova Scotia, for a first hand view of the acclimatization process.
I've lived in brutal winter Canada all my life, so maybe my sensibilities are different than yours, but it's really not that bad. Winter doesn't hit all at once, so you have time to adjust and prepare.
Electric heat in a house is easy - just turn the dial. No real maintenance required, other than an occasional vacuuming to keep the units dust-free. I don't know much about wood stoves, except make sure it's new enough that it's safe, have a sufficient fire-proof surround (tiles, etc) and the chimney is cleaned annually. Get a professional for this - not worth risking a fire to save a few bucks.
Make sure the roof and gutters are sound and in good shape for snow load and the spring melt. Clean out the latter each fall after the trees are bare. Extend the downspout well away from the house to avoid seepage into the basement.
For general weatherproofing, the utility company probably provides an assessment of your house for a fee, or possibly even free of charge. They will recommend upgrades/repairs to keep your house energy efficient. Some provide grants for the work. Things like insulation for the basement, attic and walls, windows/doors and weather stripping can save a lot in the long term. Basement insulation will give you more bang for the buck than upgrading the attic, if you have to choose an order. Make sure water pipes are wrapped in foam insulation in the basement up to where they meet the exterior walls, to keep them from freezing.
Snow shovels, both scoop and push types are important, plus sand or ice melt for slippery sidewalks. A corn broom is good for a light dusting of snow, or a leaf blower for bigger areas. An ice chopper wouldn't hurt either. If you have a driveway to maintain yourself, a snow blower, possibly.
Also, a car snow brush, although a broom is faster/easier, in my opinion. (Lock de-icer too - keep it in the house, not the car!) Also, an emergency kit for the car - blanket, candles, etc. I like Michelin snow tires, but I'm sure other brands are fine too. Talk to the tire shop about prices and what they recommend. If you get lots of icy roads, studded tires may be the thing, if allowed there. Get your car winterized around Oct/Nov. They'll check all the fluids and replace for low temps if needed. Also make sure the battery is up to the job of starting in the cold. A block heater to plug in is likely necessary there, and an interior car warmer will keep the windows clear without having to scrape.
For clothing, layers are best. Thermal underwear, then your regular clothes, probably 3 different weights of coats, light for early fall and spring, then medium weight (3 in one's are good), then a parka with hood for dead of winter. Scarf, mitts/gloves, hats, boots. Ice grips for the boots.
I think those are the basics. Ask neighbours/co-workers for advice/help for whatever you don't know. It will be a learning process for sure.
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All of this to say, I'm looking for recommendations and suggestions on how to make the transition as seamless as possible. Any good links or lists on how to run/maintain a home in terms of heating and efficiency (my VT house has electric baseboard heat and a woodstove that allegedly keeps the whole house warm during winter)? How to dress appropriately for the winter (ie what gear to buy or not buy, because I've been to the outfitter stores up there and people be a little gear-crazy up there if I'm being honest but maybe that's by necessity)? What kind of snow tires to get (I currently have a Honda CRV), and whether I need anything else for my car. What temperature to keep the house at when I'm not there (I likely will take a break from the VT winter at some point and snowbird for a few weeks in February at least). My house inspector told me emphatically that the chimney needs an annual cleaning and inspection and that it is *not* a DIY job, and I made a mental note I'd ask the FIRE crowd online about that one. My new basement is completely unfinished and I'd be interested in hearing and seeing what others here have done to create extra living space with their basements.
My new house is within a small community that shares the cost of snowplowing as well as maintenance of a community well, so at least I won't need to own a vehicle big enough to have a plow on the front. I just don't want to make any big newb mistakes with the winter. Thankful for any help here!
Congrats on the move. Winter in the north is what you make of it.
Stove: Try to maintain a firewood supply that's <20% moisture. A moisture meter can be had on Amazon for about twenty bucks. Different species dry at different rates. Some species like ash can be cut and split in the spring and ready to burn in the fall, while oak can take two or three years to be dry enough to burn. Never trust a firewood seller who promises to bring you dry wood. Pretty much nobody sells wood that's actually dry.
If you're going to buy wood, the most economical way to do it is to get a log truck delivered and do the rest yourself. This is common in the rural northeast, and your neighbors should be able to point you in the right direction.
If you burn dry wood, you won't need to clean the chimney much. However, you can absolutely DIY it with a Sooteater in an hour.
If the stove that comes with the house is old, look into an upgrade. New ones are far more efficient and safer. A new Englander for <$1000 will save you a pile of wood and emit much less smoke than a 70s or 80s era stove.
You'll want to use the stove if the alternative is electric baseboards. Electric heat is $$$.
Clothes: At a minimum, you need a good coat, hat, gloves/mittens, and quality boots. I wouldn't cheap out on clothes. The REI-level stuff is worth it. The more comfortable you are, the more you can enjoy winter.
Snow tires: Yes, buy them. Blizzaks are good, and I've personally had good luck with Continental's version, which I think is now called the Extreme Winter Contact. Talk to local folks about whether studs are a good idea in your area. If you're regularly on mountain roads, I tend to think studs are worth it, but probably not if you're mostly on the flat. Get them mounted on a set of dedicated rims so that you can easily change them yourself in the fall and spring since you don't want to use them above about 45 degrees.
Hope that helps.
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I'm going to second the recommendation for a moisture meter - an old house I had had a wood stove, I didn't know what I was doing when I was buying firewood, and then I spent a long winter being really frustrated with damp wood that took forever to light and probably had a terrible return on investment.
Definitely invest in at least one set of really good quality gear. The name brand stuff is worth it, but you could also check out the local secondhand stores for lightly used options for coats, at least. I HATE having cold feet, so nice wool socks (I think Darn Tough socks have a lifetime guarantee?) are a must, and I'll put in a plug for the warmest boots I ever owned: Baffin Snogoose (I can't personally vouch for the men's styles but I assume they'd be similar). When I bought them in college they were claiming to be rated to keep your feet warm up to -40 F, which I experienced in the Midwest! After very heavy use for four years they eventually did wear out, but southern New England does not get nearly that cold so I didn't re-buy.
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I think of Central Vermont as the highlands. Like most regions in Vermont, it is smallish in area, but hard to pin down its exact geographic extents. I think of the I-89 corridor around Montpelier when I hear Central, but the one thing that is consistent throughout Central Vermont is mountains (or hills as they call them out west). What makes them Mountains is how steep they are.
You absolutely have to have snow tires AND at least rear wheel drive to leave paved plowed roads (unless you started driving the farm truck up the steep mile long driveway in 12 inches of snow at age 8). Studded are personal preference but work better on consistently steep icy roads, like if you live on a dirt road that the snow gets packed down on going up the side of a hill.
For clothes you want wool long johns (tights), I like Icebreaker, Patagonia, or Smart wool for bottoms. In the colder months I sleep with wool bottoms, wool socks (darn tough are good) and light weight wool top, this makes it easier to get out of bed when the house is 50 degrees and I need to go outside into the 10 degree air to get wood for the wood stove. I sleep under fewer blankets than DW. A slip on pair of warm boots is great for getting/splitting wood, shoveling/cleaning the car, and walking the dog, insulated Muck or Bog boots are popular. Once the leaves start falling (nowish) I take out my hat and gloves, in "stick season" I never leave the house without hat and gloves and often a spare pair of socks (my feet sweat). Wet feet are miserable.
I echo the moisture meter. I do wood wrong every year and it is a struggle to have not dry wood and a joy to have dry wood. Fire wood is a multi year process. Your first winter you will post to Front Porch Forum for a lead on dry wood, you'll get not dry wood and depending on if it's a cold or a warm winter, you might run out or have extra. Your second year will be different, hopefully you'll have bought twice as much wood as early in the spring as you can and you'll be seasoning your wood for your second and third winters. Or if you're like me, you'll scavenge wood from FPF posts and road sides and junk trees on nearby properties and it'll always be not dry and have low BTU value. Vermont Department of Forests Parks and Recreation rents roadside "wood lots" where you can fell your own trees for firewood off public land. You need a chain saw, some chain saw lessons and safety gear, and a trailer for this, but it is mustachian.
Also cleaning your own chimney is mustachian and totally acceptable. I haven't done it yet, but I do have it cleaned every year. I come up with excuses to have our chimney sweeper come over and let fall that the chimney needs cleaning and he takes care of it for $100. This year I did it because the chimney wouldn't draw. He looked at it from the ground and could tell the screen was completely choked with creosote. You'll post to Front Porch Forum for a lead on a chimney sweep.
Basically, Front Porch Forum will be how you ask our neighbors for information. They will give it and much more gladly.
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This is timely -- in much the same situation .... been in the South for 15 years and I'm done with the hot summers and the politics. Looking to Vermont or New Hampshire within the next two years. We even match up on having a CR-V.
Now if someone could just get me over the sticker shock of the taxes, I'll be fine (I currently live in TN).
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As SunnyDays said -- I just moved from Tampa to Nova Scotia last year. Historically, I lived in cooler climates growing up (Boston) but it had been decades since I lived somewhere cold, and I'd never done it as an adult.
In short, I totally dig the winter. There are all sorts of fun things you can do (sledding, hiking, ice skating) and the cold is easy to dress for.
Re: heating the house, we have a combo -- we have electric baseboard heat that we barely ever use, because it ends up being the most expensive of our heating methods. We have a minisplit heatpump upstairs (in my office) which is great for the office and also keeps the upstairs bedrooms reasonably warm overnight. In the living room, we have a pellet stove, which I absolutely love. It's similar to a wood stove but a bit more automatic and also a bit less smoky. It was here when we moved in, and if it were to go, we'd probably just replace it with a mini split. I really like the pellet stove, but DW isn't crazy about fire (even though it's totally contained). And it's probably a bit pricier than the heat pump, but you just can't beat fire for coziness. I love the idea of a wood stove, personally, but they require more hands on management than a pellet stove. Plus, DW would be more afraid of that, I suspect. All told, I haven't found heat to be that big of a deal. We have decent windows and insulation, and our electric bill is typically around $120 CAD per month in the winter. Plus, we buy 1 pallet of pellets. I think that was ~$600CAD, including delivery. We outsource an annual service of the stove and chimney -- I'd do it, but as I said DW is fire paranoid and it gives her peace of mind.
Re: the car, my wife (FL born and bred) was very paranoid about driving in the snow, so we bought an AWD car (a used Subaru Outback) and put good snowtires on. I would have skimped a bit on both of those, if it was just up to me. The other car thing we do is get a lanolin-based undercarriage spray before they start salting the roads. Again, this may be overkill, but it makes my wife happy and supposedly protects the car. We live in a small town, and they do a great job clearing the roads. We intentionally bought a house within a municipality, though, so we'd have services like that (as winter n00bs). Oh, and we also have a house with a garage, which wasn't something we were insistent upon but it's very nice to have.
One other house thing -- we turn off our external hose bibs in the winter. That's about it as far as winterizing goes.
We don't have a snowblower, we just shovel. If it gets really bad, there are plenty of folks around who would clear our driveway for ~$30CAD. I may do that in a big storm, but I haven't yet (and we had one storm of ~18 inches last year).
Re: clothes, I agree that decent clothes will help, but I honestly haven't spent all that much. The biggest thing is just layers. I'm allergic to wool, so I tend to do cotton underlayers, then fleece, then a shell. I got a couple of pairs of fleece lined cargo pants which I really like. Thrift stores up here are really good, so I got a bunch of sweaters and fleeces. I got some insulated rubber snow boots at Canadian tire, and some snow pants, and I bought a winter coat on clearance at the end of the season (it's a bit better than the one I had from when I was a teen). Gloves are definitely something where I feel like I will still likely upgrade -- I want something waterproof, warm, and reasonably thin. My gloves are OK, but when it's really cold (say minus 20C) they don't really cut it. We don't get that weather so much here in NS, though. Oh, and we got Yaktrax for winter hiking and they have been great. In NS, we have a lot of melt / freeze cycles so trails can get pretty icy.
I think that's about it. Like you, I was worried about messing something up in my first real winter, and found it to be much easier (and more fun) than I was expecting.
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I've lived in areas with winter all my life.
Winter sucks the most when you have to be out in it, either walking/driving.
As a FIRE'd person you don't have to deal with this, more or less.
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Check the average number of days with sunshine too, if that matters to you. I can deal with winter, but I hate weeks on end with nothing but gray skies (I grew up with that). I can handle winter in a place like Lake Tahoe, especially not having to commute, etc.
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A chimney doesn't per se require annual cleaning. We burn quite a bit of firewood during the coldest months and I have an inspection mandaded by the city council every four years. The sweeper dude (it's always a dude) comes, has a look and does abseloutely nothing with the chimney as it's not neccesary to do anything. Your local regulations and customs might of course differ (I don't even live in the US....)
If you want to burn wood for heating you need something that is enclosed. I.e a stove where you don't actually see the flames or through a glass door. Open fireplaces are cozy but they consume a lot more wood and more importantly don't really provide much heating. Modern stoves have secondary combustion (the gas is fed back into the chamber for a second go), bur at a higher temperature and thus burn much cleaner and with much less heat loss through the chimney. No idea if this is a thing in the US, but it's old technology so should be available - been mandated since 1998 for new installations where I live.
And if someone tries to sell you "all-season tires" or something similar it ain't a thing. Buy locally, snow tires sold in places that don't really get snow might be really shitty unless you know what to look for. Continental and Nokian are safe choices generally. In Europe the real deal is often called "Nordic edition" or something similar, guess that would be "Canadian edition" in the US ;) And snow tires should be replaced every 3-4 years regardless of thread left, they behave differently from summer tires.
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If you have baseboard electric and a wood stove, I'm going to assume its an older poorly insulated home. You'd be pretty shocked what the electric bill will cost if you're not running the wood stove constantly. I'd suggest insulating to the max that's feasible, checking window leakage, and getting a mini split for backup heat (and summer a/c and dehumidification) for when the fire is out.
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This is timely -- in much the same situation .... been in the South for 15 years and I'm done with the hot summers and the politics. Looking to Vermont or New Hampshire within the next two years. We even match up on having a CR-V.
Now if someone could just get me over the sticker shock of the taxes, I'll be fine (I currently live in TN).
I think unless you move to FL or TX you're gonna have "tax sticker shock" no matter where you move. I'll only see a slight increase moving from Louisiana, but my partner and I are going to save quite a bit on car insurance so it might actually even out.
NH is beautiful, I've driven through it several times going back and forth from VT to ME. But I have to say, there seems to be an almost universal "Live Free Or Die" attitude and they take it pretty seriously. My last drive through this month I saw multiple front yard flags with "Fuck Biden" on it, soooo, maybe just bear in mind that NH and VT are very different animals politically.
Our realtor (both the seller and buyer agents, actually agreed) seems to think we'll be fine with a CRV if we put the Nokian snow tires on it. Looks like it will be cheaper to buy an extra set of rims down south an bring them up with me for swapping seasonally.
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Wow, the responses here have been so comprehensive and helpful. You folks absolutely rock!
A few people mentioned hills vs flat land. My new home is about 10 miles from Killington, on the edge of the Green Mountain National Forest. On the side of a hill (close to the base) on an unpaved road. So there's some incline but not nearly as much as neighbors further up the hillside. I'll definitely check with people in the vicinity whether I need studs. Thanks to the poster who noted that studs are a different type of snow tire, as I've seen studs/snow tires used interchangably elsewhere.
Also make sure the battery is up to the job of starting in the cold. A block heater to plug in is likely necessary there, and an interior car warmer will keep the windows clear without having to scrape.
I'm completely unfamiliar with both of those devices so thanks for the tip!
If you're going to buy wood, the most economical way to do it is to get a log truck delivered and do the rest yourself. This is common in the rural northeast, and your neighbors should be able to point you in the right direction.
If the stove that comes with the house is old, look into an upgrade. New ones are far more efficient and safer. A new Englander for <$1000 will save you a pile of wood and emit much less smoke than a 70s or 80s era stove.
You'll want to use the stove if the alternative is electric baseboards. Electric heat is $$$.
Super helpful, thanks. Hadn't heard about log delivery. Is New Englander an actual brand of stove or a style?
The house was built in the late 70s but upon inspection seemed to be pretty well insulated. I am concerned about the efficiency of the electric heating, especially if/when the house is vacant in the winter and relying on the stove won't be an option.
I HATE having cold feet, so nice wool socks (I think Darn Tough socks have a lifetime guarantee?) are a must, and I'll put in a plug for the warmest boots I ever owned: Baffin Snogoose (I can't personally vouch for the men's styles but I assume they'd be similar). When I bought them in college they were claiming to be rated to keep your feet warm up to -40 F, which I experienced in the Midwest! After very heavy use for four years they eventually did wear out, but southern New England does not get nearly that cold so I didn't re-buy.
I hate cold feet more than anything. Thank you for this!
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How exciting, and I bet VT will be beautiful.
For clothing, I would recommend investing in good socks and get used to covering your noggin with a hat, even if it feels uncool/unhip. Will you be walking much in the outdoors? If so then I would shop differently than if I were driving from my garage at home to a garage at work and only hopping out of a car for brief errands. Buy the right kind of windshield washer fluid for cold winter temps--I prefer Prestone De-Icer myself. Get your vehicle in its best working order prior to cold temps setting in. Keep extra gloves, hat, socks, granola bars etc in your car trunk in case you run off the road or encounter someone else who is having car difficulty.
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I think of Central Vermont as the highlands. Like most regions in Vermont, it is smallish in area, but hard to pin down its exact geographic extents. I think of the I-89 corridor around Montpelier when I hear Central, but the one thing that is consistent throughout Central Vermont is mountains (or hills as they call them out west). What makes them Mountains is how steep they are.
You absolutely have to have snow tires AND at least rear wheel drive to leave paved plowed roads (unless you started driving the farm truck up the steep mile long driveway in 12 inches of snow at age 8). Studded are personal preference but work better on consistently steep icy roads, like if you live on a dirt road that the snow gets packed down on going up the side of a hill.
I'll be a little south of that corridor, near Killington. Would AWD be preferable to 4WD? I confess I have never owned anything besides little Honda coupes and hatchbacks myself so this is a new territory for me.
In short, I totally dig the winter. There are all sorts of fun things you can do (sledding, hiking, ice skating) and the cold is easy to dress for.
Re: heating the house, we have a combo -- we have electric baseboard heat that we barely ever use, because it ends up being the most expensive of our heating methods. We have a minisplit heatpump upstairs (in my office) which is great for the office and also keeps the upstairs bedrooms reasonably warm overnight. In the living room, we have a pellet stove, which I absolutely love. It's similar to a wood stove but a bit more automatic and also a bit less smoky. It was here when we moved in, and if it were to go, we'd probably just replace it with a mini split. I really like the pellet stove, but DW isn't crazy about fire (even though it's totally contained). And it's probably a bit pricier than the heat pump, but you just can't beat fire for coziness. I love the idea of a wood stove, personally, but they require more hands on management than a pellet stove.
One other house thing -- we turn off our external hose bibs in the winter. That's about it as far as winterizing goes.
Like you, I was worried about messing something up in my first real winter, and found it to be much easier (and more fun) than I was expecting.
Thanks for such an encouraging post. I want this to work and the naysayers in my life have been talking about the North like it's going to be a constant SnowPocalypse. Did you have your heatpump minisplit installed or did it come with the house? The layout of my house is going to be somewhat unique because the living/common areas are the top floor, bedrooms on the lower level, and then a basement. Wood stove is on the highest level in the common area, baseboard heating throughout the rest of the house. Since heat rises, I'm wondering about a heat source in the basement because I'm a weirdo who wants to put a home theater in the part of the house with no natural light and if I heat the basement the rest of the house should benefit too.
I don't think I even have external hosebibs, but I'll check. Hopefully there's a way to turn them off if there are any.
If you want to burn wood for heating you need something that is enclosed. I.e a stove where you don't actually see the flames or through a glass door. Open fireplaces are cozy but they consume a lot more wood and more importantly don't really provide much heating. Modern stoves have secondary combustion (the gas is fed back into the chamber for a second go), bur at a higher temperature and thus burn much cleaner and with much less heat loss through the chimney. No idea if this is a thing in the US, but it's old technology so should be available - been mandated since 1998 for new installations where I live.
Growing up, my family had a Franklin style stove (bought new in the late 80s) that I was under the impression had a built in catalytic converter. I'm not sure if that's the same thing as secondary combustion. I didn't see any specs on the woodstove that was included but it does appear to be an add-on. I'd totally be open to investing in a more efficient stove if needed but the sellers were emphatic about how efficient it is. It is enclosed.
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Re: heating the house, we have a combo -- we have electric baseboard heat that we barely ever use, because it ends up being the most expensive of our heating methods. We have a minisplit heatpump upstairs (in my office) which is great for the office and also keeps the upstairs bedrooms reasonably warm overnight. In the living room, we have a pellet stove, which I absolutely love. It's similar to a wood stove but a bit more automatic and also a bit less smoky. It was here when we moved in, and if it were to go, we'd probably just replace it with a mini split. I really like the pellet stove, but DW isn't crazy about fire (even though it's totally contained). And it's probably a bit pricier than the heat pump, but you just can't beat fire for coziness. I love the idea of a wood stove, personally, but they require more hands on management than a pellet stove.
Thanks for such an encouraging post. I want this to work and the naysayers in my life have been talking about the North like it's going to be a constant SnowPocalypse. Did you have your heatpump minisplit installed or did it come with the house? The layout of my house is going to be somewhat unique because the living/common areas are the top floor, bedrooms on the lower level, and then a basement. Wood stove is on the highest level in the common area, baseboard heating throughout the rest of the house. Since heat rises, I'm wondering about a heat source in the basement because I'm a weirdo who wants to put a home theater in the part of the house with no natural light and if I heat the basement the rest of the house should benefit too.
Growing up, my family had a Franklin style stove (bought new in the late 80s) that I was under the impression had a built in catalytic converter. I'm not sure if that's the same thing as secondary combustion. I didn't see any specs on the woodstove that was included but it does appear to be an add-on. I'd totally be open to investing in a more efficient stove if needed but the sellers were emphatic about how efficient it is. It is enclosed.
Not the person you were asking, but thought I'd chime in...
I had a mini-split installed in my previous house and installed one myself in our new house. The old house was 800 sq ft and pretty open, so the unit was located centrally on a wall and did all the heating/cooling. It was a 1.5 ton Mitsubishi that was effective to -5 F. Having it professionally installed doubled the cost compared to the unit itself. Our new house is 1,700 sq ft and I put in a 2 ton LG wall unit (also heats to -5 F effectively), then hired an HVAC guy that does work on the side to do final hookup and vaccuum the line for $300. It heats the whole house (ranch style single level) except the two bedrooms at the opposite end.
I also bought a catalytic wood stove for the old house. They're supposed to be better for long slow burns than the secondary air combustion type.
edited to add--- a wall unit mini split in the basement would be a great way to heat it, but I don't know how effective that would be for the level above. Is there insulation at the basement ceiling? You should probably think about your plan for finishing the basement and if you'd be putting any walls that would block air flow. You'd probably want to insulate the basement walls too, otherwise that's a huge heat sink.
Also, there are mini-split units designed for colder areas than mine, which would be better suited for Vermont. Mitsubishi calls it Hyper-heat and is effective to -13 F and gives a little better cold temp efficiency. At that temp, I think its still supposed to have a COP of about 2.0 and for most normal winter temps probably COP of 3-4.
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Living in the mountains is my favorite. Here are a couple tips;
Get good winter clothes. The stuff at big box stores is junk and most of the stuff at REI is unnecessarily expensive. I recommend a ski or snowboarding brand like Burton (a Vermont company) for a jacket and pants, their stuff is on sale online a lot, you can grab a jacket and pants for $200 ea. easy.
The waterproof rating should be 10,000+ Staying dry is staying warm. You don’t need to buy big thick coat, instead multiple layers are key. A big coat like a down parka, Canadian Goose being the fancy brand, is good for standing still on a windy day or doing research on Antarctica. If you are planning on moving around at all they are good for making you sweat, which makes you wet, and eventually makes you cold when you are moving less. Instead you want layers that separate your waterproofing from your insulation.
A shell keeps you dry that’s it. It can be worn by itself on warmer days or as an outer layer when playing in the snow. Next you’ll want a mid layer. This can be as simple as a hoodie or something fancier like a merino wool long sleeve, or a mini-down jacket for really cold days. The mid layer keeps you warm, but not dry. Perfect by themselves for sunny cold days when you don’t need the waterproofing, and for around town. Wool stays warm when wet, cotton and down do not. Down is the lightest and cotton is the least expensive. Base layer can be simple like a t-shirt or cotton long Johns or fancier like Marino wool or polyester blends. The base layer should help wick moisture away from your skin to keep you dry. Again, cotton is breathable but retains moisture. The same logic applies for the pants. Then get yourself a nice pair of wool socks. Darn tough is a VT brand that makes some of the best socks out there. Not cheap but worth it. You don’t need big thick socks, you will have good winter boots. The socks don’t provide the warmth the boots do. For boots you will want something waterproof with 200g+ insulation rating. 200g is good if you are actively hiking, but not suitable for hanging around camping. 600g boots are good for when you are just hanging out. 400g is a nice in between. Gloves - get a nice pair of gortex gloves, again I would recommend something from a ski/snowboard company like burton and not something from a big box store. Your boots and gloves will make and break your day, don’t skimp on these. Gloves are 50-100$ and boots are $200+
Ok, all that said, 99% of the time I am going out with a t-shirt,hoodie, cotton long Johns (pants) , gym shorts, snowboarding pants and jacket (shells), 400g boots, and nice gloves. If I’m hiking or camping I just wear my snowboarding boots usually.
Now that we got that out of the way, go play outside!! Winter can be miserable, you either love it or hate it. Try skiing, snowboarding, snow shoeing, cross country skiing, ice fishing, making a snowman, hiking, winter camping, building a fire, ice climbing, driving your car sideways (on purpose!)... all these things make winter great. When the weather is crazy like a blizzard, and you are in proper clothes, the outside is really a special place.
Lastly, you don’t really need awd or 4wd. What you need is a set of blizzak tires and FWD is perfectly acceptable for 95% of days. The other days you just stay home or get a friend with a Subaru to pick you up! Studded snow tires are good too, little overkill in my opinion, but if your driveway is steep and long then I would consider it.
PS. Killington is great! Jealous.
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You might also want a command start on your car to avoid having to run out in the cold to get it warmed up. Even a car warmer will only take the chill off on the coldest days. If you have heated seats, even better.
If you're really leery of winter driving, a few lessons from a driving school might be worth it. Even here, people forget how to drive every November.
I don't think AWD or 4WD is necessary either. They might help you get out of the ditch once you're in it, but won't keep you out. Good snow tires should be adequate.
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I'm in Minnesota and planning to move somewhere warmer!!! . You already got good advice but I'll try to hit some things that others may have missed. Apologies if someone addressed these already:
The shutoff for the outside water taps should be in the basement. After you shut them off, make sure to run them dry and leave them open.
Pipe insulation not only preserves heat but can also help with condensation, so use it on your cold pipes too.
I usually set the temp at 50F when I leave for vacation. That could get expensive with electric (we had to run spaceheaters a couple times and that got expensive fast). I've always had a gas furnace, seems odd not to have one. At my last house we had propane delivery because we weren't on a natural gas line.
If you have a septic you want to flush your toilet a few times a day in winter or the line from the tank to the drain field can freeze Then you have to get the tank pumped every month until spring. (That only happened to me once and it wasn't during the coldest year. Snow helps to insulate the line so it happened in a year with a lot of freeze and thaw, when we went away for a week.).
The cold water in your taps will actually be cold, so no need for ice in your drinks!!! The downside is that it takes longer for the shower to heat up, and you get a lot more condensation on humid days, so your toilet will probably sweat.
Your basement might be unfinished for a reason, so wait a couple years before doing anything down there. PI've had three houses and all of them had occasional water in the basement. Not a big deal if it's unfinished, just mop it up. You can build some raised shelves to use the space for storage.
The air gets dry during winter. You will need lotion, chapstick, and possibly saline nasal spray. I dry clothes in the bedroom to add a little humidity to the air.
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A friend of mine once moved for a year to Australia. When she returned, she promised to never ever complain about it being cold ever again. In a way its easier to deal with cold weather than (too) warm weather. If you need to go outside, you just put on suitable clothing for the activity level and temperature. Apart from energy cost, it's pretty easy to keep a home at a comfortable indoor temperature, especially if it's a newer build with good insulation. Escaping heat is much trickier.
If doing any sports outdoors you need remarakbiy litte clothing even in pretty low temperatures. Generally have to bring an extra layer or two just in case, but as long as you keep moving it doesn't require much to stay warm. As mentioned upthread keeping dry is essential and also keeping wind out. It doesn't get stupid cold where I live - rarely down below 10F (-10C) but air humidity is pretty high as close to water so can feel pretty cold compared to a perfectly dry cold inland. I rarely wear long underwear in daily life. I also have a bad-ass down jacket and some boots that are markeded as comfy down to -40C/F but I only use said jacket and boots if I know I have to stand still. If you venture far into backcountry and in remote areas it's a compltely different story as you have to be prepared for anything and that requires a fair amount of gear.
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Thanks for such an encouraging post. I want this to work and the naysayers in my life have been talking about the North like it's going to be a constant SnowPocalypse. Did you have your heatpump minisplit installed or did it come with the house? The layout of my house is going to be somewhat unique because the living/common areas are the top floor, bedrooms on the lower level, and then a basement. Wood stove is on the highest level in the common area, baseboard heating throughout the rest of the house. Since heat rises, I'm wondering about a heat source in the basement because I'm a weirdo who wants to put a home theater in the part of the house with no natural light and if I heat the basement the rest of the house should benefit too.
No worries -- when I moved here, I was really thinking that the weather would be one of the cons but I've absolutely loved it. Having four seasons is great, and makes me appreciate the variety of each day much more than the monotony of FL weather. I totally prefer the weather here, which I really didn't expect.
The heatpump minisplit was here when we moved in. One nice thing about having it on the top floor (where ours is) is that is also serves as an AC. Most of the woodstoves here (and our pellet stove) tend to be on the lower levels (so, as you say, the heat can rise). It's very common in my neighborhood for folks to have their wood stove in their unfinished basement, and to use that as the primary heat source for the whole house. Our pellet stove is in the living room on the first floor and it does a pretty good job of warming the whole house, particularly since we're comfortable with the bedrooms being a little cooler. The room it heats the least is the den, which is also on the first floor but separated by a few doors. If the floorplan is open, it works better. Heating the basement makes sense to me, but as others have said be sure to 1) make sure it doesn't flood before finishing it and 2) insulate it well. Ours is insulated and unfinished -- we may finish it someday (as it seems to stay totally dry) but it's nice to have as like a project space and workout space. I was never a home workout guy, but we got a spin bike and a TRX and that has been great.
You might also want a command start on your car to avoid having to run out in the cold to get it warmed up. Even a car warmer will only take the chill off on the coldest days. If you have heated seats, even better.
These are certainly very popular up here, but I personally HATE the car remote stuff. Historically, I was a person who always had their keys in their pocket, but now I never do because I've inadvertently opened the gate or started the car when working in the yard. I don't think my wife or I have ever intentionally used it. Also, I believe these features are a battery drain (although probably a subtle one). It may not be possible, but I'd love for my next car (which could certainly be another Outback) to be completely non-remote, without a power gate. I'm otherwise happy with the car, though. Honestly, the warmth of the car on a super cold day isn't a particularly big deal -- we're typically driving 10 minutes to a sledding hill or something like that.
The shutoff for the outside water taps should be in the basement. After you shut them off, make sure to run them dry and leave them open.
Good point about running them dry. Am I right in thinking you're leaving them open "just in case"? Otherwise, what is the reason (since they're dry)?
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All (or both to be precise) my outdoor water taps are self-emptying. I.e when you shut off the water outside a small amount of water comes out afterwards emptying the outlet and the last part of the pipe so there's no water that can freeze.
Now that I have an electric car the pre-heating in the winter is easy as a breeze, but my previous ones had a Webasto system installed. This was either remote-controlled (with very long range on the remote) or started by dialing into the car from my cell. This worked great and the car was warm, but as it burns fuel it doesn't work very well inside a garage - which is kind of where you want the car in a place where it gets below freezing and it was also a big battery drain as the battery was used to spin the fans in the car when it started. So much that I actually charged the battery once per week as we ran it up to twice daily and the drives afterwards were really short so battery never got time to recharge.
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Though they only moved from Boston, the Frugalwoods are in Vermont. Liz writes extensively about their experiences, including lots of winter photos. Brrrrr!
Start here: https://www.frugalwoods.com/about/
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Totally jealous, Vermont is awesome, I visit often.
Camping at Emerald lake state park is one of my favorite stopovers when I do my leaf peeping autumn trips. Catch a scenic train ride at Chester VT in the fall. When the border opens back up foresta lumina in Quebec is so much fun. Just over the Derby line. Woodchuck cider. Dang. That's it now I want to sell my place and move there too. Autumn is otherworldly beautiful.
JMO like others have said buy the the studded snow tires. Just do it. What I do for this is get a dedicated set of rims to put them on. Most north states want those studs off your car in the spring. I just bought quality name brand studded snows from the tire rack. I also bought dedicated rims from them for a reasonable price. If you buy together they will mount/balance for free and you get the whole package delivered to your door so you don't have to mess with going to the shop. Then you can buy cheaper 3 season tires for your normal rims. You might get lucky and find some junkyard rims but then the tire shop will get you for $25 a tire to mount them each time. There is imo way more ice than there used to be. Climate yada yada a little warmer than it used to be now lots of freezing rain. If they save your life once its worth it. Especially if you are a new snow driver. You will see more awd cars in the ditch because people overdrive the conditions. Ability to stop is more important than the ability to go in a storm. It cost me an additional $15 a tire to stud them, totally worth it.
JMO the car block heater is a little extreme. Good battery is a must. You will know when you have a good battery when the car starts in -10f weather. You will go broke heating with electric unless you go mad solar. Wood stoves are the way to go. Forget burning anything soft including ash in the deep winter. Unless you like feeding the fire every hour. Stick to pure hardwoods in the deep winter. Get a log load and do it yourself way cheaper. Beech wood is superior and plentiful. Don't let them stick you (pun intended) with a bunch of ash in the load. Ash is okay in the spring and fall. Sorry, I am a wood stove dork.
I love skiing it's my golf equivalent b/c I hate golf. Skiing for me is like going to the playground. It is also a place to network with people as well. When you get tired of networking you just leave them in the dust. Lodge time "apres ski" is awesome. There are politics everywhere you go so don't be surprised if you run into a little of the opposite persuasion.
Car starters are popular but they drive me nuts. People will let their cars idle for like 20 minutes to warm them up. Just dress for the weather. Snow storms are actually pretty fun. It's nice to just stay home and watch the weather during them. Get a little generator and you can melt snow on the stove if the power is out. I will take a good snowstorm over a hurricane any day.
You are going to have so much fun. The way to have lower taxes is to not live in a mansion. Property taxes usually are based on the assessed value of your property. Modest country house will have manageable taxes though still high.
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How exciting! I've lived in Western Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Maine, and later Michigan and Chicago. I've also lived in Arizona and the weirdest part of moving back north was not how cold it was but how often there was precipitation! I absolutely love four seasons, to the point that I kinda hate the central air in our Chicago house because it insulates you from the weather more dramatically than heat does in the winter.
I haven't read all the previous posts, so maybe someone's already said this, but the Norwegians say "There's no such thing as bad weather, only insufficient clothing". And I have found this to be true time and time again. I'd suggest obtaining the basics and then adding to them as you figure out how much you'll be outside and how comfortable you are inside. You want wool socks, a wool hat, a parka that hits at least mid-thigh, and some good gloves or mittens. At some point you'll probably want to add some long underwear (silk or merino are best, but synthetics perform decently well) and
Boots are getting their own paragraph because I have OPINIONS. Get Sorels with the removeable liners, and get a pair of YakTrax to go on them. The YakTrax provide traction on ice and packed snow, and have saved me from biting it on the sidewalk in Chicago infinity times.
All that said, there will be plenty of days where you don't need the full winter getup. Make sure you have a good fall/winter transition jacket, which you can use again come the winter/spring transition. And I use glittens (fingerless gloves with a mitten top) more often than not because I need my fingertips to do things and it's just not THAT cold on any given day.
Honestly, I would embrace the winter as much as possible. Find some outdoor activities you enjoy - hiking before the snow comes, snowshoeing and nordic skiing after the snow. There are lots of places that rent snowshoes and nordic skis so you can see if you enjoy it before you buy equipment. Get out in the sunshine as much as possible, and if you are cold, figure out how you'll improve your clothing next time. Enjoy your new surroundings and everything that make them unique.
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Just a heads up- while chimney cleaning is typically a pretty easy DIY project, there might be a very good reason why your inspector was emphatic about not doing it yourself.
I've cleaned a lot of chimneys at a lot of houses (part of a volunteer crew that does this for the elderly in our community every fall). Some are easy to clean, some are very much not.
My house is easy. Just a quick peak up the chimney with a mirror and good light. Then run the brush up from the cleanout in the basement. It's all steel lined so there's never much creosote, just a bit of soot to clean up.
However some chimneys are a stone cold bitch to do. You can sometimes only clean them from the top down. Which means going up on sometimes sketchy roofs. The cleanouts can be blocked, poorly placed, or hard to get to in such a way that makes inspections and cleaning difficult. There can also sometimes be issues with the lining in chimneys that makes them difficult to inspect and clean properly.
If you've never cleaned a chimney, might be worth paying somebody to do it or maybe asking an experienced neighbor to help to learn how it's done. A chimney fire is something you definitely, definitely do not want to experience.
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Honestly, I would embrace the winter as much as possible. Find some outdoor activities you enjoy - hiking before the snow comes, snowshoeing and nordic skiing after the snow. There are lots of places that rent snowshoes and nordic skis so you can see if you enjoy it before you buy equipment. Get out in the sunshine as much as possible, and if you are cold, figure out how you'll improve your clothing next time. Enjoy your new surroundings and everything that make them unique.
THIS x1000.
@RumBurgundy - I know you didn't specifically ask about the mental side of living in VT / New England, but I think it's worth discussing. I live in New Hampshire. It can be depressing AF when it's 5:00pm, dark, and freezing outside. I have to watch my mood closely in the winter; it can be hard to leave for work when it's dark outside and come home when it's dark outside. It makes you want to go to bed! And then you look at the clock and you realize it's only 5:05pm.
Here are some thoughts to counteract the winter blues -
(1) Invest in warm lights for your home and turn them on!
(2) Buy plenty of candles, too! They will add a lovely ambience and make your home feel cozier.
(3) Invest in good clothing (as suggested above), a good headlamp, and reflective gear so you can be outside safely at night.
(4) It's not the cold temperatures that will get you - it's the WIND. Sunny, cold, wind-free days are awesome!
(5) Like @SimpleCycle said, the best thing you can do is pick a winter sport in order to embrace the season. Skiing, fat biking, snowshoeing, whatever. Just pick something that will excite you enough to get you outside consistently.
(6) Pick an indoor activity, too. Board games, card games, puzzles, projects of any kind. There will be days where you're more or less stuck indoors, and it helps to have fun things to do inside, too.
(7) Try not to count the days until spring, but you'll notice yourself saying "it's staying lighter out!" as the winter progresses. And let's be honest … summers in New England are the BEST!
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If you're going to buy wood, the most economical way to do it is to get a log truck delivered and do the rest yourself. This is common in the rural northeast, and your neighbors should be able to point you in the right direction.
If the stove that comes with the house is old, look into an upgrade. New ones are far more efficient and safer. A new Englander for <$1000 will save you a pile of wood and emit much less smoke than a 70s or 80s era stove.
You'll want to use the stove if the alternative is electric baseboards. Electric heat is $$$.
Super helpful, thanks. Hadn't heard about log delivery. Is New Englander an actual brand of stove or a style?
The house was built in the late 70s but upon inspection seemed to be pretty well insulated. I am concerned about the efficiency of the electric heating, especially if/when the house is vacant in the winter and relying on the stove won't be an option.
Wood stoves, firewood, and all the tools are their own rabbit hole. I'm sure we could have a pretty good standalone thread about them.
As mentioned above, you should have a pro inspect the chimney before you use it (and ideally before you buy it). Lots of old masonry chimneys are legitimately dangerous, but can be fixed with an insulted liner. If I were buying someone's old chimney, I'd want a clean bill of health before using it.
The Englander stove I mentioned above is just the cheapest good modern stove. It's high efficiency and readily available from Home Depot.
Stoves achieve efficiency through (1) tube-based re-combustion of gas, (2) catalytic combustion, or a combo of the two. Tube stoves are the simplest, but need higher temps to work properly. Catalytic stoves can be run at lower temps, but they tend to need a skilled hand.
Stoves are highly regulated by the EPA, and the last update to the efficiency standards was in 2020. Buying new will generally get you a better stove than anything used. There's also a tax credit for wood stoves that was slipped into the Covid relief bill to consider.
If you decide you want a nice looking stove and not just a heater, stop by a stove store and take a look. I like what both Jotul and Morso make, but if I were in Vermont I'd also seriously consider a Woodstock Progress Hybrid.
As for heating it while you're away using the baseboards, I'd seriously think about getting a solar system. You might be looking at $300+/mo just to keep it at 50 degrees.
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Yup, the mental side of surviving winter is a whole nuther ballgame! The dark is definitely the worst part, especially if you have Seasonal Affective Disorder, like I do. The solution is light - lots of light, the right kind at the right times. I have swapped out the bulbs in my most used lights with full spectrum, which mimics sunlight much more closely than regular bulbs. It's a white light, but not harsh. I also use a little gadget called Sun Up, which you plug into a bedside lamp. It slowly increases the light as much as 3 hours before you wake up, depending on how you set it, again, to mimic the sun rising. The idea is to have a "sunrise" while you sleep, so the melatonin shuts off earlier, and you wake up into a fully bright room. Use a full-spectrum bulb for this too. There are also sun boxes you can buy to sit in front of while eating, reading, etc. Throw in some natural sun during the day and it will all add up to make you feel more like summer in your mood. Not everyone is affected by short days, but lots are, and the effect is very gradual, so the trick is to be proactive before you think you need it. Other than that, try to find outdoor activities you enjoy - sledding, skating, snowmobiling, skiing, ice fishing, etc.
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Just to piggyback re: the mental side -- I was expecting this to be tough as well. I consider myself to be sensitive to SAD, but it hasn't been bad at all. I think several things help.
1) We very intentionally painted with warm colors and have lots of warm natural wood. We also have a red couch. :) And our house has lots of windows for natural light.
2) The fire on the pellet stove is really nice.
3) For whatever reason, where we are in Nova Scotia has really beautiful skies year round.
4) My home office desk faces a beautiful window -- I'm looking out on the forested ravine behind our house year round.
5) I try to get outside every day, year round.
I think I would feel differently if I were schlepping to and from an ugly office in the dark all winter. As it is, I find I didn't really mind it getting dark earlier. I still walk into town in the evenings in the dark if I have an errand to run.
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If it wasn't obvious, along with draining out the outside faucets, you'll want to drain and hang (or better bring inside, garage is fine) any hoses you have as the winter is harsh on them.
I'm a Chicago-burbs kid, so I know cold and snow but not way north cold and snow. However I did 15ish years where I mainly bus-commuted (college and after), and having something good and warm is important when standing around freezing your bum off and it is windy. I got a https://www.wintergreennorthernwear.com/ anorak and it is great. If it is really cold I'll start adding layers under it, but I'm not that far north anymore so it is rarely really that cold. Not cheap, but it has lasted well. I did send it back for zipper repairs a few years ago -- so you can even get it maintained rather than buying a new one.
We like to keep an emergency pair of boots along with the shovel, ice scraper, blankets, gravel, etc in the car emergency kit. We're far enough south that all-seasons are still acceptable with a FWD car.
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I'm Canadian and grew up in a place with cold, dry winter, moved to the west coast where it's gray and rainy and then 15 years later moved to Quebec for a couple years. When we moved to QC DH and I were well out of practice for Real WinterTM. We set aside some cash to buy proper outdoor clothes, tires, a block heater, an abri tempo (QC's answer to garages) and some other stuff. This made actually spending the money on these things more palatable. I prefer to buy better quality (more expensive) winter gear and then it lasts for years and years. Plus I get to be comfortable while I'm wearing it. Anyway, winter is Quebec's best season. We both loved it.
I just googled annual temperature averages for Killington and wouldn't bother with an engine block heater. They're not really necessary until temps are regularly under -20C and they're a PITA above that. I often forgot to unplug mine before driving away. You will definitely need winter tires though.
It looks like VT can be pretty gray in the winter. Find some outdoor, daytime, activity you like so you get some natural light most days and have something to look forward too. Take up skiing (x-country skiing is cheap), winter hiking, ice fishing or something so you'll be happy when it's cold and snowy instead of lamenting it.
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If you're going to buy wood, the most economical way to do it is to get a log truck delivered and do the rest yourself. This is common in the rural northeast, and your neighbors should be able to point you in the right direction.
If the stove that comes with the house is old, look into an upgrade. New ones are far more efficient and safer. A new Englander for <$1000 will save you a pile of wood and emit much less smoke than a 70s or 80s era stove.
You'll want to use the stove if the alternative is electric baseboards. Electric heat is $$$.
Super helpful, thanks. Hadn't heard about log delivery. Is New Englander an actual brand of stove or a style?
The house was built in the late 70s but upon inspection seemed to be pretty well insulated. I am concerned about the efficiency of the electric heating, especially if/when the house is vacant in the winter and relying on the stove won't be an option.
Wood stoves, firewood, and all the tools are their own rabbit hole. I'm sure we could have a pretty good standalone thread about them.
As mentioned above, you should have a pro inspect the chimney before you use it (and ideally before you buy it). Lots of old masonry chimneys are legitimately dangerous, but can be fixed with an insulted liner. If I were buying someone's old chimney, I'd want a clean bill of health before using it.
The Englander stove I mentioned above is just the cheapest good modern stove. It's high efficiency and readily available from Home Depot.
Stoves achieve efficiency through (1) tube-based re-combustion of gas, (2) catalytic combustion, or a combo of the two. Tube stoves are the simplest, but need higher temps to work properly. Catalytic stoves can be run at lower temps, but they tend to need a skilled hand.
Stoves are highly regulated by the EPA, and the last update to the efficiency standards was in 2020. Buying new will generally get you a better stove than anything used. There's also a tax credit for wood stoves that was slipped into the Covid relief bill to consider.
If you decide you want a nice looking stove and not just a heater, stop by a stove store and take a look. I like what both Jotul and Morso make, but if I were in Vermont I'd also seriously consider a Woodstock Progress Hybrid.
As for heating it while you're away using the baseboards, I'd seriously think about getting a solar system. You might be looking at $300+/mo just to keep it at 50 degrees.
I second the bolded, or at least consider some non-electric system, such as propane or oil heating. We spend about $1,200 a year on propane to heat our very poorly insulated 700 sq. ft. house (we rent for now), so in the long run, solar might save you more. I just don't know the details on it. I just know electric heat is awful for real winters and I'm kind of surprised your house has it.
And Dicey beat me to recommending Frugalwoods. She's got a ton of info about surviving and thriving in the winter on their homestead, and it sounds like you'll be at least slightly rural, what with the unpaved road and all.
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As for heating it while you're away using the baseboards, I'd seriously think about getting a solar system. You might be looking at $300+/mo just to keep it at 50 degrees.
I second the bolded, or at least consider some non-electric system, such as propane or oil heating. We spend about $1,200 a year on propane to heat our very poorly insulated 700 sq. ft. house (we rent for now), so in the long run, solar might save you more. I just don't know the details on it. I just know electric heat is awful for real winters and I'm kind of surprised your house has it.
Solar is not going to be the most cost effective way to cut down on your costs, especially if its going to be turned into electric resistance heat. First insulate more and seal windows/doors/penetrations, second get a better heating system like a mini-split to use when the fire is out, then look into solar if you've got lots of cash laying around.
RumBurgundy--- you had said the house seems pretty well insulated, but then also talked about wanting to heat the basement with hope heat will transfer to the main level. This really has me wondering whether there is any insulation at the 1st floor. If not, your house is not well insulated and you should look into blowing your attic full of insulation, plus the basement, depending on whether you're putting heat down there.
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I'll definitely check with people in the vicinity whether I need studs. Thanks to the poster who noted that studs are a different type of snow tire, as I've seen studs/snow tires used interchangably elsewhere.
Studs are better on (wet) ice, apart from that snow tires without studs are fine - I've never had snow tires with studs but they are much more common in rural areas. I live in the capital and main roads here are salted pretty aggressively through the winter so driving conditions tend to be pretty good year-round. Studs vs no studs has pretty strong opinions on both sides of the aisle.
The worst is freezing rain - that is when it's not cold enough for raindrops to freeze and fall as snow, but the ground is cold enough for the rain to freeze when it hits. Everything is covered in a thin layer of ice and nothing helps - not even gravel as ice will just form around it instantly. Then it gets more slippery than you could ever imagine. Even walking outdoors become a high-risk activity in such conditions. Doesn't happen very often generally, but it's really funky when it does. Very busy day for the ER.
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Just to piggyback re: the mental side -- I was expecting this to be tough as well. I consider myself to be sensitive to SAD, but it hasn't been bad at all. I think several things help.
1) We very intentionally painted with warm colors and have lots of warm natural wood. We also have a red couch. :) And our house has lots of windows for natural light.
2) The fire on the pellet stove is really nice.
3) For whatever reason, where we are in Nova Scotia has really beautiful skies year round.
4) My home office desk faces a beautiful window -- I'm looking out on the forested ravine behind our house year round.
5) I try to get outside every day, year round.
I think I would feel differently if I were schlepping to and from an ugly office in the dark all winter. As it is, I find I didn't really mind it getting dark earlier. I still walk into town in the evenings in the dark if I have an errand to run.
Getting outside is key. There will be fleeting moments of good weather and you'll miss most of them if you aren't out there for the less than ideal conditions. Winter in Vermont is gorgeous, for moments and sometimes days, or for whole seasons, but you'll miss all of it if you don't get outside to experience it.
Killington is a scene, I suggest joining it. Ski or work a bar or a gear shop or a restaurant and you'll experience it. Do the things, the 5ks the bike rides, Ski the Point (the radio stations Friday apres ski program with discounted tickets to different mountains and gear give aways, music and beers). Get some ski lessons, or ride a snow mobile, or go sledding. Shovel the drive way every 2 hours during a storm, dry your gloves by the stove, drink hot chocolate, hot totties, or spiked coffee.
You'll be mostly comfortable indoors, it might cost some money until you can get your efficiency dialed in as good a possible, but you'll only be cold for a few moments at a time when you go outside. And when you go outside, if you don't warm up within an hour or so, you are allowed to go back inside to sit by the fire and read in the idyllic scene everyone imagines Vermont is, and that truly exists, pretty often.
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I'll definitely check with people in the vicinity whether I need studs. Thanks to the poster who noted that studs are a different type of snow tire, as I've seen studs/snow tires used interchangably elsewhere.
Studs are better on (wet) ice, apart from that snow tires without studs are fine - I've never had snow tires with studs but they are much more common in rural areas. I live in the capital and main roads here are salted pretty aggressively through the winter so driving conditions tend to be pretty good year-round. Studs vs no studs has pretty strong opinions on both sides of the aisle.
The worst is freezing rain - that is when it's not cold enough for raindrops to freeze and fall as snow, but the ground is cold enough for the rain to freeze when it hits. Everything is covered in a thin layer of ice and nothing helps - not even gravel as ice will just form around it instantly. Then it gets more slippery than you could ever imagine. Even walking outdoors become a high-risk activity in such conditions. Doesn't happen very often generally, but it's really funky when it does. Very busy day for the ER.
And if you get enough it weighs down power lines. Even more and the pylons topple.
Cold snow is light and fluffy, wet snow when the air is warmer is heavy. Around here it is called heart attack snow.
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I moved from Southern California to New York and spent some time in Massachusetts, as well.
Get a real, telescoping, properly sized snow brush/ice scraper for your car. Don't do what I did and get a tiny thing that barely works. And keep the vehicle somewhere warm/in a garage if you can. If you have to leave it outside during a freeze, start clearing off the snow early so it doesn't ice up and stick to the car. Waiting even 24 hours later can be a killer.
If you're a tiny cold person like me, please invest in some good functional clothing. Learn how to layer. Next to your skin: a thin, heat-trapping, sweat-wicking under-layer made of merino wool or polyester. Then, a lightweight mid-layer (like a fleece jacket, sweatshirt, or puffer). Then an outer layer that has down or synthetic down filling and possibly a water-repellant shell. For many years I tried to look all fashionable and wear nice thinner coats on the coldest days. Don't do that! Work clothing and shoes or winter recreational clothing will warm you better than fashun.
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I always use my block heater once it's -10C/14F because I notice a difference in how the car starts. Especially in you're going to be making a shorter trip, then it's better to use it than not, since the engine has less time to heat up and the oil stays thicker. Repeated short trips with a cold engine are hard on the car long term.
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Boots are getting their own paragraph because I have OPINIONS. Get Sorels with the removeable liners, and get a pair of YakTrax to go on them. The YakTrax provide traction on ice and packed snow, and have saved me from biting it on the sidewalk in Chicago infinity times.
I also love my Sorels. I have a range of waterproof footwear with varying heights and levels of insulation appropriate for different seasons. I also have yaktraks but also kahtoola microspikes. I find that winter is more bearable when I get out and run several times a week, and the yaktraks are sometimes necessary for this...depending on how deep the snow is the microspikes are great for winter hiking. My spouse has studded tires for his bike. If you're a shut in during winter you'll probably hate it, so don't be a shut in.
And I can't say enough about wool hats and socks.
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I didn't even know block heaters were still a thing. 30 years ago, they were standard. Every car I've owned over the past 15 or so years has started fine being left outdoors down to 30 below or colder.
However, I do appreciate that getting it to start is perhaps a different question than whether it's a good idea.
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+1 kahtoola microspikes. Don't break a hip. When you go down on ice you are piled up on the ground before you know what happened. Generally with a bag of groceries or gallon of milk joining you. Always have a communication device on your person. Two years ago I lost a very independent senior citizen family member during the thanksgiving cold snap. She lived on a remote rural property and slipped in her driveway on the ice getting out of her car and injured herself to the point she couldn't get up. They found her next morning frozen in the driveway. Didn't have her phone on her.
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No advice, just a not helpful story...my step son (born and raised but in So Cal) and his wife (lived in NH when she was 8-9) moved to Maine a few years ago. Bought a house for 120K which they thought was a screaming bargain. The fact that it had been on the market for a year and the neighbors were all curious about who had just bought the most
overpriced[/s expensive house in the neighborhood wasn't a clue to them. 11 acres with a stream, it'll be great. /s Summer was all black flies and 6 foot tall weeds. The only job he could find in his admittedly narrow field paid $10 an hour and was 50 miles away. Then Fall came and they got their first $600 energy bill.
They moved there around Easter and didn't even make it to Thanksgiving. Apparently two winters when you're a kid doesn't mean you understand what rural Maine living entails. They abandoned the house to foreclosure and moved back to So Cal. No lesson to this story other than I'm glad you're looking before you leap.
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I've only skimmed the thread, but I didn't see these points addressed, so as someone who lives in Minnesota:
Well, this one I have seen addressed, but I want to echo it: dress in layers!!! It makes a big difference. Being able to pull off one thin layer or unzip your top layer and thus avoid sweating (which will make you cold once you are done overheating) is key.
As for cars, AWD is great. But also, heated seats.
Definitely embrace winter and position yourself to enjoy it. On that note, I walk year-round, no matter the weather unless it's a blizzard or pouring rain. In the winter, YakTrax will make a big difference so that you can walk on slippery sidewalks. (I haven't tried Kahtoola Microspikes. Not sure if they are better or worse.) But also: I personally wear broomball shoes for walking in snow and ice, and they are good for days when Yaktrax are overkill (such as when there are patches of ice or snow on a sidewalk but a lot of it is clean. YakTrax and things like that are made for when the snow/ice pack is solid on the surface you're walking on).
Finally, I personally think silk long underwear (bottoms and tops) are the way to go, since they are thin and not bulky, which means you can wear them under everyday clothes and not feel like the Stay Puft marshmallow man. (I also have "regular" long undies which I sometimes will put on over the silk ones if I'm gonna be out in really, really cold weather).
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Having lived in Maine, the only wisdom I can add to this thread is that eventually you will fuckup how many logs to chuck into the stove, and then you will have to open all the doors in the dead of winter, wearing nothing but boxer shorts while you lay on the floor and pant.
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Finally, I personally think silk long underwear (bottoms and tops) are the way to go, since they are thin and not bulky, which means you can wear them under everyday clothes and not feel like the Stay Puft marshmallow man. (I also have "regular" long undies which I sometimes will put on over the silk ones if I'm gonna be out in really, really cold weather).
Silk can also solve cold hands! Tight fitting silk gloves do great for giving you an extra bit of warmth if your normal gloves aren't up to the task. They're thin enough to fit under without causing issues, but despite that add a truly remarkable amount of warmth.
I originally got a pair because I was under an A/C vent in the office and my hands would get cold and I couldn't type reliably. They worked for that. Then one day I tried them in my gloves when it was butts out. Now I have a second pair that live in an inside pocket on my anorak, so that if I find my hands are cold, I can just layer up there.
The only bad thing is they will get torn to shreds by velcro, so you have to be super careful getting them on/etc.
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As someone above said, the only real challenge of winter is if you have to go places when you don't want to, and especially if you have to drive there.
I used to hate winter, but I eventually realized that 99% of my disdain is having to commute to work in winter. Where I live in Canada, our winters are a brutal combo of a lot of snow, a lot of ice, and colder than Mars temps. Driving can be incredibly dangerous, there are mornings where by the time I got to work at 7:15, the accident count on the roads was already over 100.
Having to dig out and scrape off a car and then drive on slippery, poor visibility roads is a night mare.
However, if you remove the daily commute, winter is great.
As everyone has said, layers are the key. I spent years trying to find the perfect warm enough coat and nearly bought a Canada Goose coat, but then learned about proper layer, and haven't owned a big coat since, which is great, because they're bulky and restrictive.
Here's my layer system for -40 F/C, when no skin can safely be exposed to the air, and it keeps me very warm
-100% merino wool base layer against skin
-100% merino wool zip-up layer
-fleece
-thick but light down layer (ideally one designed for layering)
-water proof/wind proof top shell with armpit vents (mine is Patagonia)
-merino wool balaclava for face
-ski goggles
-thick merino wool hat
-fleece lined leggings
-waterproof/windproof pants shell
For footwear, it depends on the purpose
-Ice breaker or Darn Tough merino wool socks (various thicknesses)
-For max mobility for walking: winter running shoes lined with GoreTex (mine are Asics)
-For more traction and better waterproofing: winter trail runners (mine are Salomon)
-For more snow: winter hiking boots
-For slipping on and off to run errands: Bogs
-Waterproof gaiters
Hands:
-merino wool glove liners
-ski mittens
-Isotoner type gloves for every day use
For the vast majority of winter, I barely need any of the above listed. As long as it's not wet, just the down layer works for every day. If it's wet, then the shell over fleece is ideal.
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^^^ 100% agree about the commuting comment. I used to hate winter, but then I quit my academic job and 30-minute commute to become self-employed and work from home. Now I love winter.
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I used to do a lot of driving for my work, so I hated winter with a passion. Now that I'm retired, I still dislike it, but like others have said, not having to go out in it makes it tolerable. I can take any amount of cold - it's the snow and ice I despise. I will never love winter; I'm a summer person through and through who had the misfortune to be born in the wrong country.
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^^^ 100% agree about the commuting comment. I used to hate winter, but then I quit my academic job and 30-minute commute to become self-employed and work from home. Now I love winter.
I adore commuting in the winter. My commute means walking or running to work - I don't (yet) bike in the winter. But going outside and make my way to work makes me feel rather bad-ass. It's not really bad-ass in any way, but I really enjoy watching folks trying to keep warm while waiting for public transport, queuing in traffic or scraping ice off their car. The worse conditions, the better. Just have to dress properly. Admittingly, it never goes down to -40 C/F where I live, but -15C/6F can happen.
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^^^ 100% agree about the commuting comment. I used to hate winter, but then I quit my academic job and 30-minute commute to become self-employed and work from home. Now I love winter.
I adore commuting in the winter. My commute means walking or running to work - I don't (yet) bike in the winter. But going outside and make my way to work makes me feel rather bad-ass. It's not really bad-ass in any way, but I really enjoy watching folks trying to keep warm while waiting for public transport, queuing in traffic or scraping ice off their car. The worse conditions, the better. Just have to dress properly. Admittingly, it never goes down to -40 C/F where I live, but -15C/6F can happen.
Yeah, DH loves winter bike/run commuting, but I specifically was talking about car commuting, which is dangerous and miserable in the winter.
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^^^ 100% agree about the commuting comment. I used to hate winter, but then I quit my academic job and 30-minute commute to become self-employed and work from home. Now I love winter.
I adore commuting in the winter. My commute means walking or running to work - I don't (yet) bike in the winter. But going outside and make my way to work makes me feel rather bad-ass. It's not really bad-ass in any way, but I really enjoy watching folks trying to keep warm while waiting for public transport, queuing in traffic or scraping ice off their car. The worse conditions, the better. Just have to dress properly. Admittingly, it never goes down to -40 C/F where I live, but -15C/6F can happen.
That, I totally get — especially as someone who walks every day of the week, in all four seasons. If I could have commuted to work without driving, it would have been a lot more pleasant.
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Just seconding (clarifying?) that AWD helps you move in slippery conditions but does NOT help you stop. Proper snow tires help you stop. So if you frequently drive somewhere where you'd be prone to getting stuck (steep hills, poorly maintained roads), then AWD/4WD might make sense, but if it's mostly just normal roads you don't necessarily need it.
Proper SNOW tires (not all seasons, not M+S, actual snow tires) are an absolute must for winter. Don't cheap out on this. If it seems expensive you might be tempted to think all season tires are fine. They're not. Also, keep in mind that your regular tires will then last twice as long so it's not quite as much of an extra cost as it seems.
I also highly recommend getting a second set of rims for your snow tires rather than having them switched on and off one set of rims every season. It's less wear on the tires, and you can just get cheapo steel rims that won't be damaged by salt and sand the way nicer rims or hubcaps would be. It also makes changing the tires easy to do yourself so you don't have to pay for installation every year.
And if you've never driven in snow/ice it's not a bad idea to have someone who knows what they're doing take you to an empty parking lot to practice. Just make sure it's a truly empty lot, if there's even one other car or lamppost you can be sure your car will find it!
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Or take a winter driving class.
I was an okay winter driver until I took a winter driving class, and I'm much more comfortable with winter driving now.
Snow storm driving will always suck though.
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A few years ago, I slipped and fell on my way to work and managed to break both my arms (as well as smash my face into the ground - generating a couple of black eyes and a bloody nose but thankfully no broken bones). It was early April in Ontario, and I'd encountered a stealthy remnant of black ice. It was kind of a nightmare for the next few weeks in particular because with one arm in a cast and the other in a sling, it was pretty hard to keep my balance - and we got several snowfalls in the the first half of April after my accident.
The following year, I felt extra cautious about walking on slippery ground. I remember one day, I was trying to walk slightly uphill on our snowy/icy street to get to the bus stop and I just started sliding back down the hill. I felt like a dog on roller skates. I managed to stop sliding but only by force of will. I called my husband and asked him to come and get me.
So, get shoes and boots with effective non-slip treads. Just because footwear has deep treads doesn't mean the shoes are grippy. Generally, I find that treads made of a really hard material are often as slippery as smooth-soled shoes, while treads that have a somewhat softer, rubbery feel grip better (like the tread on a running shoe).
I also take my smooth-soled shoes to a cobbler and have them add non-slip soles. The boots are for truly snowy or icy days. The shoes with non-slip soles are for generally walking around when the streets seem clear (but there are almost always icy patches somewhere).
And take care on the first icy or snowy days each year. It takes a little while to learn (and re-learn every year) how to walk on slippery ground.
On a different note, you might want to check out the Frugalwoods blog, because they relocated to Vermont a few years ago. They have monthly articles that talk about "life on the homestead", including information about the adjustments they needed to make (and stuff they needed to get) to live in a rural area in winter.
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I'll go back and read others posts, but I live in Vermont, and moved here directly from Florida, where I lived the first 22 years of my life. I'm now 31.
Some thoughts, in no particular order:
-I actually really enjoyed my first winter here. It has gotten harder, however, since I married someone who does not tolerate cold well due to health conditions. This informs me that it's all about positive association. Find some things you'd love to do in winter, like cross country skiing, or snowmobiling, or even (in my case) joining a club that does gymkhana or other competitive driving on the lakes once they freeze deep enough.
-The wood stove is high maintenance. It's an extremely inexpensive way to heat the house, but you'll need to throw logs in it every 6-8 hours. The electric baseboard heaters on the other hand are the absolute *least* efficient way to heat a home, and will cost you dearly. Look into getting some extreme cold weather mini splits. Fujitsu's Halcyons were, at least 2 years ago, the most efficient units on the market.
In order of cost to heat, it's roughly: Natural gas < Top tier heat pump ~ wood < wood pellets < < < oil <<< propane << resistive electric (baseboard)
If you rely on the baseboard heaters at all, you'll regret it with your first power bill. They can be literally 4x more expensive than gas or wood.
I have a pellet stove, which runs approximately 24 hours between refills. A single 3/4 ton mini split in the kitchen will keep the house comfortable until around 30 degrees, and keep it above freezing for all but the coldest 2-3 weeks of winter. I find the convenience factor of the pellet stove to be acceptable, but it also makes leaving the house for more than a day trip in winter more difficult. It's also noisy. I'm strongly considering putting in a 2nd mini split so the house will completely take care of itself.
The nice thing about a wood stove, on the other hand, is that it isn't reliant upon electricity. The power grid is pretty reliable in most parts of the state, but it's wise to have some kind of heating option that doesn't rely on it.
Efficient Vermont has some incredible rebates and incentives. For instance, $800 off a $1200 heat pump water heater, $1000 (?) off a $2500 mini split, $750 off an $800 heat pump dryer, rebates for weatherization. They're extremely easy to claim, too.
As for the chimney inspection and cleaning, I highly recommend it. Chimney fires are dangerous and take lives every year. Pellet stoves do not create the same kind of creosote so the chimney maintenance is much less critical. Gas tends to be clean enough that simply inspecting it yourself is adequate.
-Your car shouldn't need anything but snow tires. I'm partial to Nokians. They're definitely top tier, but Bridgestone also makes some excellent snow tires. It isn't a bad idea to go a little narrower with snow tires as it helps them to cut through the slush.
A block heater will generally pay for itself in fuel savings and you'll get heat a little sooner after starting the car, but it isn't necessary with modern vehicles.
-If you have a big driveway, a snowblower (preferably a large one that's gas powered) could save you some headache 2-3x per year during heavy snowfall.
-Get a couple of bags of salt and sand that you can spread around to melt the snow and give your feet traction. Also get a nice snow shovel.
-I recently bought a HappyLight, which is a local Vermont product. Highly recommended. The end of October through the end of December can be quite gloomy.
-Get involved with seasonal activities. February and March are sugaring season. You probably have at least a couple of sugar maples on your property. Gardening here is very rewarding. Many communities do corn mazes. Take advantage of every minute of summer to go sailing, hiking, or simply lay out in the backyard in a hammock.
-Most of all though, buy good clothing, it's critical that you don't feel trapped inside when it's cold. I like to have a thick wool underlayer (minus 40 brand is good), and I have a couple of pairs of Darn Tough socks which are easily my favorite socks in the world. Get yourself a variety of jackets and shirts that you can try out different combinations of, so that you're always properly equipped for the day. It's better to have layers than one super warm item, because you can shed layers if the day warms up or when you go back inside.
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Lots of good suggestions here.
For cars, tell your tire dealership what your driving conditions are. There are a variety of winter tires. And the reason they are called "winter tires" not "snow tires" is that they have softer compounds that don't get hard in cold conditions. Summer or all-seasons get stiff below 7oC and don't flex and grip the road properly.
I've driven a Subaru all-wheel drive car at the beginning of winter, before I got the snow tires on, and AWD is not a substitute for winter tires. I learned the hard way to schedule my tire change earlier. Oh, and do schedule your tire change early if you are not doing it yourself. Garages get booked up very fast.
Did anyone mention a winter emergency kit for the car?
As Malcat said, dress in layers and for the weather. Remember that you are breathing warm air out but taking in cold air - so in really cold air you should be breathing through a scarf or balaclava. The fabric is warmed by your exhaled breath and warms the incoming air. Nothing like taking a deep breath of fresh frosty air and freezing your lungs. In emergencies you can cup your hands around your mouth and nose to keep the air warmer.
Hands - gloves inside a pair of mitts is a versatile choice. Mitts are much warmer than gloves, but when you need manual dexterity you can take the mitts off and still keep your hands somewhat warm. I've never tried it, but snowmobiler gear is supposed to be very warm, after all they are just sitting on the snowmobile so are not generating much body heat.
Wool is wonderful, it doesn't chill you when it is damp. Cotton is horrible. I always wonder how people can go skiing in jeans. I guess they never fall and their jeans never get damp?
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The top performing non-studded snow tires over here are generally Continental Viking Contact and Nokian Hakkapeliitta.
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A few years ago, I slipped and fell on my way to work and managed to break both my arms (as well as smash my face into the ground - generating a couple of black eyes and a bloody nose but thankfully no broken bones). It was early April in Ontario, and I'd encountered a stealthy remnant of black ice. It was kind of a nightmare for the next few weeks in particular because with one arm in a cast and the other in a sling, it was pretty hard to keep my balance - and we got several snowfalls in the the first half of April after my accident.
The following year, I felt extra cautious about walking on slippery ground. I remember one day, I was trying to walk slightly uphill on our snowy/icy street to get to the bus stop and I just started sliding back down the hill. I felt like a dog on roller skates. I managed to stop sliding but only by force of will. I called my husband and asked him to come and get me.
So, get shoes and boots with effective non-slip treads. Just because footwear has deep treads doesn't mean the shoes are grippy. Generally, I find that treads made of a really hard material are often as slippery as smooth-soled shoes, while treads that have a somewhat softer, rubbery feel grip better (like the tread on a running shoe).
I also take my smooth-soled shoes to a cobbler and have them add non-slip soles. The boots are for truly snowy or icy days. The shoes with non-slip soles are for generally walking around when the streets seem clear (but there are almost always icy patches somewhere).
And take care on the first icy or snowy days each year. It takes a little while to learn (and re-learn every year) how to walk on slippery ground.
On a different note, you might want to check out the Frugalwoods blog, because they relocated to Vermont a few years ago. They have monthly articles that talk about "life on the homestead", including information about the adjustments they needed to make (and stuff they needed to get) to live in a rural area in winter.
Do you have specific recommendations for footwear? I've fallen a couple times on icy/snowy walks. Thankfully I was uninjured (other than a couple bruises) but it's made me very hesitant and anxious. I'd like to do more walking this winter--likely just on sidewalks or paved surfaces, though there are some trails near my house that I might want to attempt. But footwear is a concern. I was wearing Sorels, one of the more oft recommended brands, one of the times I fell.
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If it's really slippery you need studs. Icebug has quite a few models, I have one I bought ages ago but don't really use them very often - they are good though but I prefer my other alternative. My go-to-shoe is Asics Fujisetsu, those are trail running shoes with studs and they are waterproof as well. Studs do not guarantee you won't slip but makes it a lot less likely.
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Lots of good suggestions here.
For cars, tell your tire dealership what your driving conditions are. There are a variety of winter tires. And the reason they are called "winter tires" not "snow tires" is that they have softer compounds that don't get hard in cold conditions. Summer or all-seasons get stiff below 7oC and don't flex and grip the road properly.
I've driven a Subaru all-wheel drive car at the beginning of winter, before I got the snow tires on, and AWD is not a substitute for winter tires. I learned the hard way to schedule my tire change earlier. Oh, and do schedule your tire change early if you are not doing it yourself. Garages get booked up very fast.
Did anyone mention a winter emergency kit for the car?
As Malcat said, dress in layers and for the weather. Remember that you are breathing warm air out but taking in cold air - so in really cold air you should be breathing through a scarf or balaclava. The fabric is warmed by your exhaled breath and warms the incoming air. Nothing like taking a deep breath of fresh frosty air and freezing your lungs. In emergencies you can cup your hands around your mouth and nose to keep the air warmer.
Hands - gloves inside a pair of mitts is a versatile choice. Mitts are much warmer than gloves, but when you need manual dexterity you can take the mitts off and still keep your hands somewhat warm. I've never tried it, but snowmobiler gear is supposed to be very warm, after all they are just sitting on the snowmobile so are not generating much body heat.
Wool is wonderful, it doesn't chill you when it is damp. Cotton is horrible. I always wonder how people can go skiing in jeans. I guess they never fall and their jeans never get damp?
+1 to all of this. Cold-induced bronchospasm is no fun at all. I do the gloves inside mitts thing too, and usually keep hands in pockets while I'm out walking.
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Hands in pockets creates a risk when walking on any slippery surface that you won’t be able to maintain balance very readily. Especially for someone not used to ice. It might also cause more injuries if you do fall. Learning to do the Penguin Shuffle and to keep your centre of balance is important too.
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Hands in pockets creates a risk when walking on any slippery surface that you won’t be able to maintain balance very readily. Especially for someone not used to ice. It might also cause more injuries if you do fall. Learning to do the Penguin Shuffle and to keep your centre of balance is important too.
Penguin Shuffle, I love it.
I used to curl, running on pebbly ice is a challenge even wearing curling shoes.
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Do you have specific recommendations for footwear? I've fallen a couple times on icy/snowy walks. Thankfully I was uninjured (other than a couple bruises) but it's made me very hesitant and anxious. I'd like to do more walking this winter--likely just on sidewalks or paved surfaces, though there are some trails near my house that I might want to attempt. But footwear is a concern. I was wearing Sorels, one of the more oft recommended brands, one of the times I fell.
We have a couple different styles of YakTrax, and they work well. For patchy black ice on concrete, you probably want the ones that are mostly rubber with little carbide studs. For solid white ice, the chain versions are better.
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Do you have specific recommendations for footwear? I've fallen a couple times on icy/snowy walks. Thankfully I was uninjured (other than a couple bruises) but it's made me very hesitant and anxious. I'd like to do more walking this winter--likely just on sidewalks or paved surfaces, though there are some trails near my house that I might want to attempt. But footwear is a concern. I was wearing Sorels, one of the more oft recommended brands, one of the times I fell.
We have a couple different styles of YakTrax, and they work well. For patchy black ice on concrete, you probably want the ones that are mostly rubber with little carbide studs. For solid white ice, the chain versions are better.
Thanks!
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A piggyback question from another Deep Southerner:
I've heard geothermal heat pumps are hands-down the most energy efficient system that can be bought, but cost a lot to install. It would seem like if I was living in Vermont, I would be most interested in not wasting a bunch of time splitting firewood or feeding a fire all the time and I would not want to spend thousands of dollars per year heating my house. Thus, a geothermal heat pump would be my first instinct. Are these a thing in the cold frozen north?
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A piggyback question from another Deep Southerner:
I've heard geothermal heat pumps are hands-down the most energy efficient system that can be bought, but cost a lot to install. It would seem like if I was living in Vermont, I would be most interested in not wasting a bunch of time splitting firewood or feeding a fire all the time and I would not want to spend thousands of dollars per year heating my house. Thus, a geothermal heat pump would be my first instinct. Are these a thing in the cold frozen north?
I have a former coworker that had geo thermal here in Wisconsin. It had an electric heating element to supplement when it was too cold. He said his bills were through the roof. He was an idiot so not completely sure that the geo thermal was completely to blame for the high bills.
Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk
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A piggyback question from another Deep Southerner:
I've heard geothermal heat pumps are hands-down the most energy efficient system that can be bought, but cost a lot to install. It would seem like if I was living in Vermont, I would be most interested in not wasting a bunch of time splitting firewood or feeding a fire all the time and I would not want to spend thousands of dollars per year heating my house. Thus, a geothermal heat pump would be my first instinct. Are these a thing in the cold frozen north?
Well, existing houses usually come with HVAC systems, so few people are going to spend a ton of money to switch.
Developers here don't do them, because they aren't well known, so therefore don't make sense as an additional building cost, since it's not yet a valuable feature to market. Especially since the bore holes need to be drilled so deep due to the extreme cold.
Individuals who build custom homes might opt for them, but again, upfront costs and not being well known will hold people back, so this adds to the inventory of houses that were built with standard HVAC. And retrofitting an existing HVAC is even more expensive.
They may become more popular over time, but they have to become popular before they can become common, and that's hard to pull off. Basically, until every HGTV show starts blathering on about geothermal as a desirable feature the same way they do about open concept layouts and stone countertops, the public demand will not be large enough for developers to switch to geothermal.
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A piggyback question from another Deep Southerner:
I've heard geothermal heat pumps are hands-down the most energy efficient system that can be bought, but cost a lot to install. It would seem like if I was living in Vermont, I would be most interested in not wasting a bunch of time splitting firewood or feeding a fire all the time and I would not want to spend thousands of dollars per year heating my house. Thus, a geothermal heat pump would be my first instinct. Are these a thing in the cold frozen north?
I have a former coworker that had geo thermal here in Wisconsin. It had an electric heating element to supplement when it was too cold. He said his bills were through the roof. He was an idiot so not completely sure that the geo thermal was completely to blame for the high bills.
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I can't imagine why it would have had backup electric resistance heat. The point of geothermal is to get it buried deep enough that there is no seasonal variation of ground temperature, or at least be minimized to a few degrees. Where I live, horizontal loops get buried 7 feet deep. In a colder area, I would assume its probably more cost effective to drill vertical holes. Usually there are several that are 200-300 feet deep.
edited to add--- ChpBstrd mentions price of geothermal installation vs efficiency. The people at GreenBuildingAdvisor, an online forum and energy efficiency site, are based in Vermont and swear by mini-splits and cold climate air source heat pumps, rather than geothermal. When comparing installation cost to operating cost, they apparently come out on top and can operate to -13F at a COP of 2 ( I think, but maybe thats at -5F) with no issues.
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Another vote for proper winter tires. We put our Blizzaks to the test this last winter running up and down the mountain. Steep windy two lane road, lots of snow and ice. They're worth the expense if you're doing any amount of winter driving. Blizzaks excel in snow, whereas X-Ice tires have better ice and dry pavement performance, IMO.
And yes, there's a difference between snow and winter tires. Modern winter tiers are an engineering marvel. Most of the time, in most winter conditions, winter tires outperform studs (https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-gear/cars-trucks/studded-tires-winter-car-prep/). Basically, unless you're regularly driving on certain types of ice within a narrow temperature range, you're better off with modern winter tires.
Winter tires don't make you invincible, still need to slow down and avoid large driver inputs. But it does make a big difference.
I have a dedicated set of winter wheels/tires that I swap myself. Pretty easy with a few basic tools and a TPMS programmer.
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A piggyback question from another Deep Southerner:
I've heard geothermal heat pumps are hands-down the most energy efficient system that can be bought, but cost a lot to install. It would seem like if I was living in Vermont, I would be most interested in not wasting a bunch of time splitting firewood or feeding a fire all the time and I would not want to spend thousands of dollars per year heating my house. Thus, a geothermal heat pump would be my first instinct. Are these a thing in the cold frozen north?
I have a former coworker that had geo thermal here in Wisconsin. It had an electric heating element to supplement when it was too cold. He said his bills were through the roof. He was an idiot so not completely sure that the geo thermal was completely to blame for the high bills.
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I can't imagine why it would have had backup electric resistance heat. The point of geothermal is to get it buried deep enough that there is no seasonal variation of ground temperature, or at least be minimized to a few degrees. Where I live, horizontal loops get buried 7 feet deep. In a colder area, I would assume its probably more cost effective to drill vertical holes. Usually there are several that are 200-300 feet deep.
edited to add--- ChpBstrd mentions price of geothermal installation vs efficiency. The people at GreenBuildingAdvisor, an online forum and energy efficiency site, are based in Vermont and swear by mini-splits and cold climate air source heat pumps, rather than geothermal. When comparing installation cost to operating cost, they apparently come out on top and can operate to -13F at a COP of 2 ( I think, but maybe thats at -5F) with no issues.
We don't live in VT, but air source heat pumps are becoming the new standard for heating (and cooling). However, even air source heat pumps still require electricity to power the fans (air handler) that moves heat from the exterior pump into the house. There's also extra electrical heating that's used to "defrost" the unit when it's used in cold, damp weather. We just had one installed and it required a 240V connection. Although the pump will consume less energy than our baseboard heaters it still requires some and therefore won't work in a power outage. If we lived in a place where winter power outages were a risk, we'd still maintain, and use, a wood or pellet stove. Winter is lots of fun, except for when the inside of your house is suddenly the same temperature as the outside. In fact all types of central heating systems rely on electricity, with the possible exception of rads heated by a boiler.
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This company identified NY State as the best market for geothermal, for some reason. Vermont is the same latitude as upstate NY, so it may work.
The trick with Dandelion is, I think, scale + attractive financing. The latter may be unavailable to smaller installers.
https://dandelionenergy.com/
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Air source heat pumps are great. They lose efficiency as it gets colder, but mine still pumps out heat even when it's subzero. I think it's best to pair them with a supplemental heat source such as wood though, so you're not running them hardest when they're least efficient.
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If you go deep enough geothermal is invariant for temperature and has a constant COP as the groundwater used for the heat exchange has constant temperature. They are however quite expensive to install and in reality only work well with floor heating or radiators than can operate with a low temperature on the circulating water. It is also a more complex technical installation so if/when something breaks outside the warranty period repairs can be costly. I looked a bit into it when we renovated our house and with remarkably little resistance the contractors installing these openly admitted that it didn't pay off. For places with lower installation costs and/or more expensive electric energy it might look different of course. Air-air heat pumps generally pay off as they have pretty high COP for most of the heating season and installation is much cheaper.
The problem is that when it gets really cold and you need 'em the most the COP drops towards 1 or even below as the defrosting also requires some energy in addition to the heat pumped into the house. They are awsome for climates where it never, or rarely gets very cold (say below 5F). I want one or two but the interior police has objected so we don't have one. I have air/water which in reality is way too small for our house, but due to various incentives I got it pretty much for free so it was worth it as it provides savings of ~600 USD / year in heating costs for us.
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Chiming in as a Vermonter, I live about 1.5-2hrs north of where you're moving to. The Killington area is very nice. As many people have advised, it's all about getting outside and finding hobbies to enjoy during the winter. You're in an excellent area for skiing, snowboarding, snowshoeing, ice fishing, cross-country skiing, and winter hiking. Yak traks and/or winter hiking spikes would be a great idea for helping to get out. There are a number of state parks and WMA (public land- wildlife management areas) you'll be close to for exploring. The VT state sites have all kinds of information.
Killington itself is a fun ski town with lots of bars and restaurants for the occasional night out. You'll also be a reasonable distance (30min) from Woodstock and Quechee which are nice small towns worth spending time in. Rutland is a working class smaller city also around 30 min with larger chains and grocery stores including the only Aldi in VT.
Your closest wholesale club is a BJs in West Lebanon, NH (less than an hr). You're a bit out of luck on Costco- closest is around 2 hrs in 3 different directions- Albany NY, Manchester NH, and Burlington VT areas.
For outdoor clothing/sporting goods, if you need to buy anything new, I'd encourage you to check out the outlet shops in Lake George NY (1hr). There are Eddie Bauer, Orvis, and LL Bean outlets. There's an Eddie Bauer Outlet in Manchester VT (45min) as well.
For the conversation around heat pumps, check out https://www.efficiencyvermont.com/. This site will detail the financial incentives available for heat pump purchases and can do energy audits on your new home.
Other Purchases- snow tires, www.tirerack.com has been best for me. I would also mount them on a second set of steel rims. Wal-mart, Amazon, Craiglist or FB Marketplace. Steel rims are fine to purchase used.
Welcome to VT. Winter is what you make of it.
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Air source heat pumps are great. They lose efficiency as it gets colder, but mine still pumps out heat even when it's subzero. I think it's best to pair them with a supplemental heat source such as wood though, so you're not running them hardest when they're least efficient.
This is how we're set up -- we have a minisplit heat pump (the aforementioned Fujitsu Halcyon) and a pellet stove. Last winter (our first in Canada) it worked great. And we did use a bit of electric baseboard (my wife would use it for a couple of hours in her office when she was working from home) but our electric bill wasn't bad. It was just one room for a couple of hours a day, though. She basically used it like a space heater.
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I'm a lifelong New Englander, living in the woods, although suburbia was built up around my property 20 years ago. First a few things about me, then some tips.
Complete self sufficiency. If it snows, I have a snowplow on my 4 door Wrangler with 4 snow tires. If there's too much snow, I use my 4 wheel drive Kubota diesel tractor bucket to move the snow into piles (snow farms) in the woods. If the power goes away, who cares. I have a 5500W generator and always have at least 10 gallons of extra gas in the garage (part of my supermarket/gift card gas scams...I never pay more than $1.50 a gallon). Yes, I rotate the gas, so new cans come in and I put the old stuff in the cars.
On electric heat. Anyone in New England will laugh their ass off at the notion that anyone would use electricity. Our rates are at the top, matched only by California and I think Hawaii. I lived in Virginia during grad school. Mass rates are double Virginia. Why? We're all powered by natural gas and the pipelines (we have a transfer station in my town) are woefully inadequate and any submission for new or upgraded lines are shot down by powerful residents.
Snow tires. I've used them all. I ditched studs one year and actually took my side cutters and removed them from all my tires. Why? Non snow covered, wet roads, I come over a hill and there's an accident. Some clown pulls out of the pile of cars right in front of me. I engage ABS and pretty much do no slowing as the studs are now steel sliders. Only missed the guy because he kept moving out of my way. Do NOT use studs if there's any chance of driving on non ice covered roads. There are plenty of good ones out there. As a short primer, performance snows are ok and handle really well. "Real snows" have squishy sidewalls and tons of tread and will have far more grip in snow. Blizzaks, Hakkas, Digitec, Arctic...I've had them all. As long as it's a snow, it's going to be far better than no season tires.
4 wheel drive. What is your driveway and road like and do you really need to get anywhere? Honest question. If you have a 50 foot driveway and your road is plowed, you don't need 4 wheel drive (or AWD). Will it hurt? No. Seems like half the cars in Vermont are pre-95 Subarus, so if you find a car you like and it happens to be AWD, that ain't bad. If you have a driveway like mine....up a hill from the road and 800 feet long and you get 18 inches of heavy, wet snow while you're away, no, that Subaru isn't getting up the driveway, even with snows. My Wrangler is set up with skinny, tall snows for ground clearance. 18", I can manage. 24", nope. 36" (yes, we've had that much overnight), plan on hours of plowing for a property like mine.
Dress in layers. You absolutely do not need fancy smancy big dollar REI stuff. Burlington Coat Factory has cheapo 3rd world made stuff that's warm. Long sleeve T short followed by a sweat shirt followed in really cold weather by a faux ski jacket is fine. Get a set of ski warm up bib pants for really cold shoveling duty. Gloves, get a packet of cheapo leather gloves from Harbor Freight. They wear well and from memory (just picked up another pack last week) a pack of 5 sets is like nine bucks. For really cold stuff, a pair of cheap snowmobile gloves covers your wrists up your arms. When shoveling, you WILL start to sweat. When you do, shed a layer.
Boots: snowmobile boots are great for getting through new, really deep snow. I've got a bunch of these as we used to have snowmobiles. All of them are from Burlington Coat Factory, so they cost like $29 a pair rather than $229 from some snowmobile shop. Otherwise, hiking boots are great. These don't have to be expensive. Dicks/Carbellas have a bargain room and good sales. I've never paid more than $49 for a pair of good ones.
Wood burning. Sigh. So I forest manage my property for tax savings and for firewood. I've got both a Stihl pro and Husqvarna little (440) chainsaws, a log splitter and that 4x4 diesel tractor with a bucket to move it (and a cart). My property tax savings make it worth it, I love working in the woods and I love saving the money for heating oil, which 90% of homes in New England are heated by. But if I could not get the wood for free, I would never go through the expense and work of heating with wood. Yes, I have covered stacks seasoning and kindling ready. I heat with a wood forced air furnace that's in the unfinished basement. It is a LOT of work schlepping in straps of wood. How I start it is a paper grocery bag of burnable paper/cardboard, a second bag of twigs and kindling and some small starter wood. Once up and running, I'll feed in regular pieces of split wood. I feed more in every hour and a half to 2 hours. A cold day will use a pile about 4 feet by 4 feet against the basement wall. Our house is 2800 square feet and the 2nd floor is post and beam with cathedral ceilings, so it is a lot of space to heat. I burn everything I cut, so now and then a piece of pine is going in there...usually to get stuff started and as part of the kindling. But most of my property is oak, beech and maple.
Learn to like winter. Cross country ski. Or get a snowmobile. Or something. If you like winter (I do), you do great. If not, you will move away as winter in central VT is pretty long.
Culture: I learned the difference when living in Virginia. It is very different. People are not outwardly nice or go out of their way to welcome you. We have a long winter so need to get stuff done before the snow comes....get outa my way. I found in Virginia that people tried to "out polite" each other. You don't get that up here. I was at the 4 way stop 3 miliseconds before you, I'm going, get off my lawn. But you can certainly make friends. It simply takes time and maybe a little effort and the willingness to help out when needed. Neighbor is chainsawing up a tree that fell. Go over and help move the limbs to a pile. Bring the mis-directed mail to the correct mailbox. If you like to be left alone, that won't be a problem.
You're not going to find a lot of Red State opinions. Remember Bernie Sanders is the senior Senator from Vermont. It's pretty easy to just keep politics to yourself, if you want.
Oh, and there are more taxes on average in Vermont than anywhere else, so just don't be surprised. If you want less taxes, move south to Mass. While NH has no income or sales tax, property tax and a slew of other nickle and dime taxes make up the difference and southern NH housing is not cheap.
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Remember Bernie Sanders is the senior Senator from Vermont.
Funny enough, Bernie is the Junior Senator from Vermont. Our senior senator is Patrick Leahy, the longest serving senator in the Senate currently. Bernie was in the House for a long time before becoming a senator.
Also our governor is a Republican, not a Red State republican, but a New England republican, or he tries to be.
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I found in Virginia that people tried to "out polite" each other. You don't get that up here. I was at the 4 way stop 3 miliseconds before you, I'm going, get off my lawn.
This is absolutely not the case in Vermont. If anything, there is excessive delay at stop signs because everyone is trying to "no, after you" everyone else, to the point people are blatantly ignoring right of way. Ditto if a car needs to turn across traffic - someone is likely to stop a line of traffic to let them through.
I'd say that's how people from Mass are characterized, however.
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Side question about heating:
I am a Midwesterner. I've always had a gas forced air furnace. When I lived in town it was natural gas on lines and in the country it was propane we had delivered. I don't understand why this isn't common in New England. The electricity or oil choices seem really expensive, and wood isn't practical for everyone. I'm not even sure what a mini-split is.
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I'm not even sure what a mini-split is.
It's pretty much a heat pump, the "split" part refers to several indoor units allowing to control temp on a per-room basis. You don't need several indoor untis per se, but it is possible.
A heat pump takes heat from the air outside, provides some thermodynamic wizardry and pumps hot air into the room. If you put in 1 unit of electric energy you get X units of heat into the room where X is higher than 1. X is also referred to as COP - coefficient of performance, as a measure of how much extra energy you get. This number drops off as it gets colder outside and eventually, if it gets really cold, you don't get any extra benefit from it and you might just as well heat with baseboard electric heating.
They are pretty easy to retrofit as they don't require any indoor piping/ducts. All the action happens outside and you pretty much just need to make a small hole in the outer wall to connect the interior and exterior parts of the system.
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Side question about heating:
I am a Midwesterner. I've always had a gas forced air furnace. When I lived in town it was natural gas on lines and in the country it was propane we had delivered. I don't understand why this isn't common in New England. The electricity or oil choices seem really expensive, and wood isn't practical for everyone. I'm not even sure what a mini-split is.
Right now, propane is one of the most expensive ways to heat in Vermont, above oil and second only to resistive electric heat.
Gas < Heat pump ~ wood < wood pellets <<< oil << propane << restive electric
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Thanks for the explanations @habanero & @Ecky . We had an energy audit done at our last house a few years ago and the recommendation was to stay with propane and seal and insulate the attic better. The only mention of a heat pump was to consider one if our air conditioner went out and that it could also be used for heating during fall/spring but that it wouldn't be efficient to use during winter. We rarely used our ac and it never went out.
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Thanks for the explanations @habanero & @Ecky . We had an energy audit done at our last house a few years ago and the recommendation was to stay with propane and seal and insulate the attic better. The only mention of a heat pump was to consider one if our air conditioner went out and that it could also be used for heating during fall/spring but that it wouldn't be efficient to use during winter. We rarely used our ac and it never went out.
Central air systems are generally less efficient than "mini split" systems, so that may be part of it. Also, electricity and fuel costs vary a lot across the country. Where I live, the cost per BTU of propane is in the ballpark of 2x more expensive.
A modern, high efficiency mini split can pump out heat at nearly -30F, albeit not efficiently, and still seems to be highly efficient down below 10F.
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edited to add--- a wall unit mini split in the basement would be a great way to heat it, but I don't know how effective that would be for the level above. Is there insulation at the basement ceiling? You should probably think about your plan for finishing the basement and if you'd be putting any walls that would block air flow. You'd probably want to insulate the basement walls too, otherwise that's a huge heat sink.
There is not currently insulation on the basement ceiling, and I had thought about looking into heating the basement with a heat pump and seeing how much that helped the 1st floor. The basement walls are currently sheathed in what looks like ~1.5" white expanded polystyrene. Home inspector recommended tearing out all the existing foam since it is not labeled and the R value is an unknown. Not sure I'll do *that* though.
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Why would you have to tear out the insulation? If it's value is dubious, just put up studs and rockwool on top of it.
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Lastly, you don’t really need awd or 4wd. What you need is a set of blizzak tires and FWD is perfectly acceptable for 95% of days. The other days you just stay home or get a friend with a Subaru to pick you up! Studded snow tires are good too, little overkill in my opinion, but if your driveway is steep and long then I would consider it.
PS. Killington is great! Jealous.
Thanks! Definitely heard different opinions on vehicles but also hearing multiple people say the same thing that FWD is ok with the right tires. I'm happy with the economical (and paid off) Hondas that my partner and I already have. Had a few people tell me I'll want a pickup truck but I'll see if I can avoid that.
You might also want a command start on your car to avoid having to run out in the cold to get it warmed up. Even a car warmer will only take the chill off on the coldest days. If you have heated seats, even better.
If you're really leery of winter driving, a few lessons from a driving school might be worth it. Even here, people forget how to drive every November.
I'll have an electrical outlet near my driveway/parking pad (oh yeah, I won't have a garage!) so I may need to look into a car warmer, assuming that's something that you plug in and leave set on a timer.
Your basement might be unfinished for a reason, so wait a couple years before doing anything down there. PI've had three houses and all of them had occasional water in the basement. Not a big deal if it's unfinished, just mop it up. You can build some raised shelves to use the space for storage.
Not sure I can wait a few years but I'll definitely be watching. By "finished" I wasn't thinking of laying carpet or any other kind of fancy flooring. Probably just poured concrete with a rug on top. The house has been in the same family for over 30 years and they only used it as a seasonal vacation home and never rented it so I'm hoping that's why the basement wasn't finished. (ceilings are also low, but if I can stand upright at 6'2, I'm happy)
I just bought quality name brand studded snows from the tire rack. I also bought dedicated rims from them for a reasonable price. If you buy together they will mount/balance for free and you get the whole package delivered to your door so you don't have to mess with going to the shop. Then you can buy cheaper 3 season tires for your normal rims. You might get lucky and find some junkyard rims but then the tire shop will get you for $25 a tire to mount them each time.
I didn't even think about buying rims from the tire shop. Good idea.
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Just a heads up- while chimney cleaning is typically a pretty easy DIY project, there might be a very good reason why your inspector was emphatic about not doing it yourself.
I've cleaned a lot of chimneys at a lot of houses (part of a volunteer crew that does this for the elderly in our community every fall). Some are easy to clean, some are very much not.
My house is easy. Just a quick peak up the chimney with a mirror and good light. Then run the brush up from the cleanout in the basement. It's all steel lined so there's never much creosote, just a bit of soot to clean up.
However some chimneys are a stone cold bitch to do. You can sometimes only clean them from the top down. Which means going up on sometimes sketchy roofs. The cleanouts can be blocked, poorly placed, or hard to get to in such a way that makes inspections and cleaning difficult. There can also sometimes be issues with the lining in chimneys that makes them difficult to inspect and clean properly.
If you've never cleaned a chimney, might be worth paying somebody to do it or maybe asking an experienced neighbor to help to learn how it's done. A chimney fire is something you definitely, definitely do not want to experience.
I am fascinated by this aspect that is turning out to be so critical. We have lucked out in that there was a property manager employed by the previous owner and he has given us some tips about maintaining the house. He is familiar with multiple chimneys done by the same builder/architect and has said ours is relatively large and does not need to be cleaned annually necessarily.
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Honestly, I would embrace the winter as much as possible. Find some outdoor activities you enjoy - hiking before the snow comes, snowshoeing and nordic skiing after the snow. There are lots of places that rent snowshoes and nordic skis so you can see if you enjoy it before you buy equipment. Get out in the sunshine as much as possible, and if you are cold, figure out how you'll improve your clothing next time. Enjoy your new surroundings and everything that make them unique.
THIS x1000.
@RumBurgundy - I know you didn't specifically ask about the mental side of living in VT / New England, but I think it's worth discussing. I live in New Hampshire. It can be depressing AF when it's 5:00pm, dark, and freezing outside. I have to watch my mood closely in the winter; it can be hard to leave for work when it's dark outside and come home when it's dark outside. It makes you want to go to bed! And then you look at the clock and you realize it's only 5:05pm.
Here are some thoughts to counteract the winter blues -
This was super thoughtful. Thank you for taking the time to write that.
I have a dear friend who lives near Portland ME and he has complained about the winters to the point that I was worried I was underestimating what they'll be like, I was originally thinking he was just being dramatic but I can look at your list of suggestions and I know he's definitely doing #5 or #6!
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Lastly, you don’t really need awd or 4wd. What you need is a set of blizzak tires and FWD is perfectly acceptable for 95% of days. The other days you just stay home or get a friend with a Subaru to pick you up! Studded snow tires are good too, little overkill in my opinion, but if your driveway is steep and long then I would consider it.
PS. Killington is great! Jealous.
Thanks! Definitely heard different opinions on vehicles but also hearing multiple people say the same thing that FWD is ok with the right tires. I'm happy with the economical (and paid off) Hondas that my partner and I already have. Had a few people tell me I'll want a pickup truck but I'll see if I can avoid that.
I live in a very snowy part of Canada and have never needed AWD and can't imagine what I would need a pickup truck for???
My parents have always had AWD, but that's because they live out in a rural community on a very steep dirt road hill with a big hump at the end. My previous small cars (Sunfire, Corolla, Sonic), have all been able to get up that hill for the vast majority of the winter, except on really icy days.
My sister lives on a similar hill, but with no big hump at the end, and she has managed just fine with her Honda Fit.
That said, if you aren't accustom to winter driving, not having AWD could scare the shit out of you. I *strongly* suggest taking a winter driving course. My ex had taken one and despite him having never owned a car, and me having commuted hours per day in winter, he was demonstrably the superior winter driver just because of a weekend course. So I took the same course and it made my life so much better.
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Lastly, you don’t really need awd or 4wd. What you need is a set of blizzak tires and FWD is perfectly acceptable for 95% of days. The other days you just stay home or get a friend with a Subaru to pick you up! Studded snow tires are good too, little overkill in my opinion, but if your driveway is steep and long then I would consider it.
PS. Killington is great! Jealous.
Thanks! Definitely heard different opinions on vehicles but also hearing multiple people say the same thing that FWD is ok with the right tires. I'm happy with the economical (and paid off) Hondas that my partner and I already have. Had a few people tell me I'll want a pickup truck but I'll see if I can avoid that.
I live in a very snowy part of Canada and have never needed AWD and can't imagine what I would need a pickup truck for???
My parents have always had AWD, but that's because they live out in a rural community on a very steep dirt road hill with a big hump at the end. My previous small cars (Sunfire, Corolla, Sonic), have all been able to get up that hill for the vast majority of the winter, except on really icy days.
My sister lives on a similar hill, but with no big hump at the end, and she has managed just fine with her Honda Fit.
That said, if you aren't accustom to winter driving, not having AWD could scare the shit out of you. I *strongly* suggest taking a winter driving course. My ex had taken one and despite him having never owned a car, and me having commuted hours per day in winter, he was demonstrably the superior winter driver just because of a weekend course. So I took the same course and it made my life so much better.
Dh loved the AWD in Youngstown because so much of the city didn’t get plowed out and the snow could go from snow to a nice base layer of ice pretty fast.
The plowing here is Wisconsin seems a lot prompter. We did ask the dealer about buying winter tires and we’re told we wouldn’t need them unless we did a lot of rural winter driving, which we will not.
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We did ask the dealer about buying winter tires and we’re told we wouldn’t need them unless we did a lot of rural winter driving, which we will not.
It isn't the type of road, it is the temperature. Below 7oC(45oF) all-season tires lose flexibility. Get into real winter temperatures and your tires just don't hold the road well. Winter tires are made of much softer compounds so they stay flexible in the cold. Then you start thinking about the kind of driving you do. Mostly cleared road? One type of tread. Mostly fresh snow? Different tread. A lot of packed icy snow? Different tread again. Your dealer obviously is ignorant, go to a tire specialist. My dealer knows tires, we discuss what kind of driving I do before I buy tires, all-season or winter.
If you get the winter tires mounted on steel rims it is easy to change tires. And since you are not driving on your all-seasons during the winter they last longer.
AWD is not a substitute for winter tires. I have driven AWD cars and believe me, I have done the sliding over icy roads if I didn't get my winter tires on early enough.
To show I live up to my advice, my appointment for my Mazda to get the winter tires on is November 4. Even though the snow doesn't stay until well into December, it snows in November. I remember one Remembrance Day where we had 6" of heavy wet snow. I can also remember heavy wet snow in mid-April. Winter tires are on the car almost half the year, basically. I live in a city and most of my driving is in town, and the rest is on cleared highway. I'm retired, I can avoid driving in snow. I still put winter tires on the car.
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Tire hardness is a rating that can be considered when buying new tires. Usually it coincides with mileage warranties. If you still prefer an all-season you can always shoot for a tire with a hardness in the three or four hundreds vs the seven hundreds. That will work with the lower temps a little better.
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Tire hardness is a rating that can be considered when buying new tires. Usually it coincides with mileage warranties. If you still prefer an all-season you can always shoot for a tire with a hardness in the three or four hundreds vs the seven hundreds. That will work with the lower temps a little better.
It depends on how cold the cold temperatures are. We are talking Vermont. So easily in the -20s and -30s.
If I lived someplace where winter maybe went down to -2C occasionally I would probably do what you are suggesting, go with soft all seasons.
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Tire hardness is a rating that can be considered when buying new tires. Usually it coincides with mileage warranties. If you still prefer an all-season you can always shoot for a tire with a hardness in the three or four hundreds vs the seven hundreds. That will work with the lower temps a little better.
It depends on how cold the cold temperatures are. We are talking Vermont. So easily in the -20s and -30s.
If I lived someplace where winter maybe went down to -2C occasionally I would probably do what you are suggesting, go with soft all seasons.
The CrossClimate 2 tire is a good option for this.
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A little late to the party, but I'm in Rutland and thought I would say hello!
I would not worry about buying a new car, just getting good winter tires is sufficient. Unless your driveway is particularly gnarly, and unplowed, you won't need studs. Just get some winter tires from one of the local shops and you will be fine. If you are a first-responder or otherwise have to go on back roads that are not plowed, than you might need more -- but your coworkers will be your best resource then. I wouldn't bother with dedicated rims for the winter tires either.
I also echo the sentiment that you need to own the winter, and make sure you make the most of the light and the outdoor options. There is great XC and downhill skiing here, or ice fishing, or sledding, or snow biking, or snowshoeing. More so if you have a relationship with drinking or drugs. Winters are long, days are short, and it's funny all the little things that can't happen, or that become difficult when you throw in ice and snow and cold. Keep chill, which is not hard in VT, and enjoy the scenery.
Some good duck boots (LL Bean?), or muck boots are important too -- lots of snow and slush mixed with salt.
Good gloves and a hat will become prized possessions, as will good socks. Darn Tough, is assumed. Good house slippers will be treasured. WRT long underwear, while wool is the best, you may find it irritating after days and days on your skin. I have a mix of wool, synthetic and blends, and in varying weights.
If you need social interaction, check out the Rutland Rocks curling club -- they do "learn to curl" sessions frequently (pre covid at least).
Since I moved here, about 8 years ago, I have enjoyed my motorcycle riding, trail running, and skiing (any mode you can think of), foraging -- all of which get me into the woods. Moving thru the woods all year round, thru all the seasons (except mud season, heh) gives me great joy.
Yah, Mud Season is a thing, when the spring rains come and melt the snow and ice.. Along with Stick Season, after the leaves go, but before the snow, it's what gives VT 6 seasons.
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Chiming in as a Vermonter, I live about 1.5-2hrs north of where you're moving to. The Killington area is very nice. As many people have advised, it's all about getting outside and finding hobbies to enjoy during the winter. You're in an excellent area for skiing, snowboarding, snowshoeing, ice fishing, cross-country skiing, and winter hiking. Yak traks and/or winter hiking spikes would be a great idea for helping to get out. There are a number of state parks and WMA (public land- wildlife management areas) you'll be close to for exploring. The VT state sites have all kinds of information.
Killington itself is a fun ski town with lots of bars and restaurants for the occasional night out. You'll also be a reasonable distance (30min) from Woodstock and Quechee which are nice small towns worth spending time in. Rutland is a working class smaller city also around 30 min with larger chains and grocery stores including the only Aldi in VT.
Your closest wholesale club is a BJs in West Lebanon, NH (less than an hr). You're a bit out of luck on Costco- closest is around 2 hrs in 3 different directions- Albany NY, Manchester NH, and Burlington VT areas.
For outdoor clothing/sporting goods, if you need to buy anything new, I'd encourage you to check out the outlet shops in Lake George NY (1hr). There are Eddie Bauer, Orvis, and LL Bean outlets. There's an Eddie Bauer Outlet in Manchester VT (45min) as well.
For the conversation around heat pumps, check out https://www.efficiencyvermont.com/. This site will detail the financial incentives available for heat pump purchases and can do energy audits on your new home.
Other Purchases- snow tires, www.tirerack.com has been best for me. I would also mount them on a second set of steel rims. Wal-mart, Amazon, Craiglist or FB Marketplace. Steel rims are fine to purchase used.
Welcome to VT. Winter is what you make of it.
There's an Aldi in Bennington too.
Vermont rocks. We're residents in the Northeast Kingdom, right on the NH/Canadian borders. Have yet to spend a winter there but it's on the list (after we spend a lot of winters in the Caribbean and other warm sailing places!)
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Snow tires. I've used them all. I ditched studs one year and actually took my side cutters and removed them from all my tires. Why? Non snow covered, wet roads, I come over a hill and there's an accident. Some clown pulls out of the pile of cars right in front of me. I engage ABS and pretty much do no slowing as the studs are now steel sliders. Only missed the guy because he kept moving out of my way. Do NOT use studs if there's any chance of driving on non ice covered roads. There are plenty of good ones out there. As a short primer, performance snows are ok and handle really well. "Real snows" have squishy sidewalls and tons of tread and will have far more grip in snow. Blizzaks, Hakkas, Digitec, Arctic...I've had them all. As long as it's a snow, it's going to be far better than no season tires.
4 wheel drive. What is your driveway and road like and do you really need to get anywhere? Honest question. If you have a 50 foot driveway and your road is plowed, you don't need 4 wheel drive (or AWD). Will it hurt? No. Seems like half the cars in Vermont are pre-95 Subarus, so if you find a car you like and it happens to be AWD, that ain't bad. If you have a driveway like mine....up a hill from the road and 800 feet long and you get 18 inches of heavy, wet snow while you're away, no, that Subaru isn't getting up the driveway, even with snows. My Wrangler is set up with skinny, tall snows for ground clearance. 18", I can manage. 24", nope. 36" (yes, we've had that much overnight), plan on hours of plowing for a property like mine.
I realize this is an old thread, but I wanted to +1 everything @Car Jack said. I did quite a bit of both ice racing and snow racing (in cars), and other than driver skill and experience it's the tires that make the difference. I have also written winter tire reviews, so I have a lot of experience with different brands and types of winter tires. I would break winter tires (NOT snow tires, as @RetiredAt63 correctly pointed out) into 4 categories. All-weather tires (not to be confused with all-season tires), performance winter tires, winter tires, and studded winter tires.
All-weather tires are essentially a new category of winter tires, and as of a few years ago the brand Nokian had the first and only in this category. They are real winter tires with the snowflake emblem on the tire, but can be used year round. While they're vastly better than all-season tires (which do not have the snowflake on the sidewall) I would only recommend them for someone who simply cannot store and change an extra set of tires. If you live in an apartment or a 500 sq. ft. house with no storage, then they're an acceptable option.
Performance winter tires, as Car Jack correctly pointed out, handle almost like all-season tires in the dry but do much better than all-season tires in cold, slush, snow, and on ice. If you are picky about how your car handles in the dry and can minimize time on snowy/icy roads, then they're a great option. They probably get you to 90% of the capability of the next category of tires in winter conditions, but without the slushy handling of the next category.
Winter tires are the most common category, and are what people mean when they talk about Blizzak-style tires. Blizzaks are just a brand name, like Kleenex, that is often used for a category even though Bridgestone has long had a Performance version (Blizzak LM....) of the Blizzaks just to capitalize on the brand name. This category of tires will generally give you the best performance in cold, slush, packed snow, and deep snow. The drawbacks are that they feel sloppy to drive on - every input is delayed a bit. People describe this as feeling like they're driving on mud or like the tires are underinflated. This feeling is something you can get used to pretty quickly. For people who live where there is a real winter and they need to drive in all conditions, I think these are the best option. As long as you expect slightly worse handling and stopping than you're used to with all-season tires in the dry, you'll be fine. And the upside is that when the conditions are less than ideal you'll have the best possible control of your vehicle.
The final category is studded tires. Again, Car Jack was correct. Studded tires do help on ice, but they hurt pretty much everywhere else. They're also loud, contribute to air pollution, tear up the roads, and can slide on roads that aren't covered in ice. I wouldn't recommend them unless the conditions in your area mean you'll be driving on bare ice very often.
I like and have bought lots of tires from the Tire Rack, and at this link you can see the different categories. https://www.tirerack.com/tires/types/category.jsp?category=WINTER_SNOW
However, the Tire Rack doesn't sell Nokian tires and I'm a huge fan of basically their entire range of tires. You can't go wrong ordering a wheel and tire package from the Tire Rack with any highly rated tire from whatever category best fits your needs. But you also wouldn't go wrong (other than from a $$$ perspective) buying a wheel/tire package from a local dealer who sells Nokians. I'm a big fan of the non-studded Nokian Hakkapeliitta R3, if you do decide on Nokians.
Other than Nokian, I'm not going to recommend a particular brand. Every brand has had good and bad models, and the leaders switch places each year. Michelin hit a home run with the X-Ice a few years ago, while before that Blizzaks were far and away the best in harsh conditions. After the X-Ice held the crown, Continental hit a home run with the VikingContact. But really any and all of them would be so much better than any all-season tire that it doesn't really matter that much.
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[quote author=SunnyDays link=topic=124000.msg2903374
For clothing, layers are best. Thermal underwear, then your regular clothes, probably 3 different weights of coats, light for early fall and spring, then medium weight (3 in one's are good), then a parka with hood for dead of winter. Scarf, mitts/gloves, hats, boots. Ice grips for the boots.
[/quote]
LOL/ we live in Colorado, not exactly a brutal-winter location. Yesterday our new neighbors (freshly relocated from Arizona) had on parkas with fur-lined hoods, hats, and winter mittens. I was like “Dude! It’s almost 50F out here!”😂.
I guess it depends on what you are accustomed to.
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LOL/ we live in Colorado, not exactly a brutal-winter location. Yesterday our new neighbors (freshly relocated from Arizona) had on parkas with fur-lined hoods, hats, and winter mittens. I was like “Dude! It’s almost 50F out here!”😂.
I guess it depends on what you are accustomed to.
This was DW last winter after we moved from CA to ID :) She (and the entire family) has adapted quickly. A few days ago we went for a walk in 21F and she brought a lighter jacket and no gloves and was fine, and the kids walk home from school in tee shirts in 30F. I think it helps that we do a lot of skiing in single digits and low teens.
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The kids were super excited for ice skating this weekend. We convinced them -1 F on Saturday wasn't going to be a good time. So we went out yesterday in the 20 degree rain that turned to ice as soon as it touched anything.
They had a great time and fell asleep in the trailer on the way home.
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@RumBurgundy your posting has come back to life and we’re all hoping you’re doing well in Vermont if you made the move up there yet. Let us know how you like the wood stove , cold weather, and what you’re up to.
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Since this thread is back from the dead -- I've been thinking about purchasing both a trickle charger and a battery jump starter. We just have one car, and it's a Subaru Outback which seems to have a decent amount of passive energy draw. We've had to get it jumped twice in 18 months (in fairness, both times due to user error) and we have free roadside assistance from a credit card, but I'd like to be able to handle it ourselves, without relying on a tow truck.
I'm thinking about this for the trickle charger: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07W6B987F/
And this for the jump starter: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B015TKUPIC/
Any experience / opinions on these?
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Just in case anyone else is still reading this for cold climate advice, I thought I'd add my two cents even though I'm late to the party.
For years I made the mistake of ignoring my legs when trying to dress warmly. I'd have a billion layers on my top half, a hat, gloves, and then just... jeans. It's true that it's the wind, not just the cold, that really makes you feel cold. I've never been skiing (saw too many injuries among friends when I was a teenager), but I have two pairs of ski pants that I wear when outside with the dog, etc. They're a bit... swishy... for everyday wear, but they're great for around the yard, hiking, etc. I wear long underwear or thicker tight-fitting pants underneath, both to add warmth and to decrease the need for frequent washing.
If you're not in a situation where you can wear ski pants, then at least wear a coat that covers your butt and upper thighs. I've found that helps a lot. I see all these trendy cropped down puffy coats lately, and I wonder where on earth they expect people to wear them!
Seems like everyone has their preferred boot. I love my Bogs. They're waterproof and temperature rated to -58F/-50C. Even the ones with laces are easy to slip on/off for quick trips to the yard. And they're actually comfortable -- not overly tight or stiff. Micro-spikes have saved me from ice more times than I care to remember, and they keep me from hibernating inside due to fear of slipping.
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For years I made the mistake of ignoring my legs when trying to dress warmly. I'd have a billion layers on my top half, a hat, gloves, and then just... jeans. It's true that it's the wind, not just the cold, that really makes you feel cold. I've never been skiing (saw too many injuries among friends when I was a teenager), but I have two pairs of ski pants that I wear when outside with the dog, etc. They're a bit... swishy... for everyday wear, but they're great for around the yard, hiking, etc. I wear long underwear or thicker tight-fitting pants underneath, both to add warmth and to decrease the need for frequent washing.
I've got a couple pairs of fleece-lined Wrangler cargo pants that I really like for winter hiking. Plus snow pants for playing in the snow. :)
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Since this thread is back from the dead -- I've been thinking about purchasing both a trickle charger and a battery jump starter. We just have one car, and it's a Subaru Outback which seems to have a decent amount of passive energy draw. We've had to get it jumped twice in 18 months (in fairness, both times due to user error) and we have free roadside assistance from a credit card, but I'd like to be able to handle it ourselves, without relying on a tow truck.
I'm thinking about this for the trickle charger: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07W6B987F/
And this for the jump starter: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B015TKUPIC/
Any experience / opinions on these?
The Noco Genius models get good reviews. I bought the 5 back in September, and it's been taking care of my car since then. I've only put around 250 miles on the car in the past four months, and 125 of those was a single trip.
https://no.co/genius5
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Since this thread is back from the dead -- I've been thinking about purchasing both a trickle charger and a battery jump starter. We just have one car, and it's a Subaru Outback which seems to have a decent amount of passive energy draw. We've had to get it jumped twice in 18 months (in fairness, both times due to user error) and we have free roadside assistance from a credit card, but I'd like to be able to handle it ourselves, without relying on a tow truck.
I'm thinking about this for the trickle charger: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07W6B987F/
And this for the jump starter: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B015TKUPIC/
Any experience / opinions on these?
The Noco Genius models get good reviews. I bought the 5 back in September, and it's been taking care of my car since then. I've only put around 250 miles on the car in the past four months, and 125 of those was a single trip.
https://no.co/genius5
Excellent, thanks!
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Seems like everyone has their preferred boot. I love my Bogs. They're waterproof and temperature rated to -58F/-50C. Even the ones with laces are easy to slip on/off for quick trips to the yard. And they're actually comfortable -- not overly tight or stiff. Micro-spikes have saved me from ice more times than I care to remember, and they keep me from hibernating inside due to fear of slipping.
So true! I'm obsessed with Baffin boots. They're the only boots I wear in winter now. I basically pull out my Baffins at first snow and wear them everyday until mud season. Mine are all "tundra rated" which is rated to -40 degrees and is their mid-range warmth level. I find them very cozy in our winters here which are generally between 0 and 30 degrees. Their "polar rated" boots are rated to -140 degrees. I also have some insulated hikers from Baffin that are better for mud season temperatures like freezing to 50. Love Baffins!
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Another vote for wool &/or alpaca or cashmere. All come from animals who are adapted to being outside in the cold, and the difference between those fibers and plant fibers during cold weather is not to be underestimated.
Sometimes these items can be found second hand. Rustic / non-superwash wool requires more care when washing, and isn't necessarily next to skin soft - but if you are wearing a base layer under it there's not as frequent washing required anyway.
For buying new - I'd recommend getting on the mailing lists and stalking sales. If you aren't picky about colors, you can reduce your overall expenses for kitting yourself out in wool.
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Another vote for wool &/or alpaca or cashmere. All come from animals who are adapted to being outside in the cold, and the difference between those fibers and plant fibers during cold weather is not to be underestimated.
I suspect that the amount of fur my dog produces is enough to sweep up and turn into clothing, and she's outside lolling around when it's 20 degrees F out there... seems like a very Mustachian endeavor that no one has taken up quite yet. :-) (Yes, by choice... she has a dog door and knows how to use it!)
Some of the more outdoorsy cities/towns have secondhand stores specifically for outdoor gear. When I was a poor, starving student, I bought a bunch of secondhand stuff at a shop in Denver, and I still wear some of it almost 2 decades later!
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Hi all,
I got a PM asking for an update so here goes.
My partner and I quickly learned that certain things just tend to get done slowly right now in this area of VT. Case in point, we contacted Green Mountain Power about limb removal over power lines at the advice of the home inspector and we were told the waiting list was months long. There may be COVID related delays but others in the neighborhood suggested that this was pretty typical. In November we were told it would be February time line. My partner opted to call daily to check for cancellations and grease the wheel and they accelerated the job timeline a few months, thankfully.
Chimney inspector told us our wood stove is under sized; we went to order a new one from Vermont Castings and were told the wait time would be about 3 months. In the meantime we got Efficiency Vermont to do an energy audit, who suggested the following:
1. insulate the basement (walls and floor, but not between basement and first floor)
2. insulation checks in the attic
3. upgrade the wood stove (somewhat undersized, and older/less efficient)
4. consider a pellet stove instead of the wood stove for convenience (my partner and I are not enthused by this)
5. consider a hybrid heat pump water heater when current one dies
6. air sealing of the attic hatch and recessed lights
If the above doesn't work, then consider a heat pump (with the caveat that they don't work when you hit -20 deg F). Since we have some pretty big windows on the top floor in the living area he also recommended storm window glass or a thermal hex shade for those windows.
We lucked out to find renters who are savvy and pretty damn Mustachian and they have been super flexible with us as we navigate getting the house to more comfortable and efficient and while we had about a cord of wood at the house to begin with they have already ordered and stacked a significant amount of additional wood. Electric bill in November was for $400, and it was $500 this month and we're working to mitigate that for future wintry months. Those amounts seem *very* high to us for a household that is burning a lot of wood and not reportedly not using the basement heat much. But our sticker shock is in part due to the declared energy usage the previous owners gave us on their seller disclosure.
Going forward our plan is to move to VT in June when the school semester ends down south, and to stay through either November or December, before returning south for the colder months and then hopefully live there at least 6 months each year. This is a bit of a trial situation as child custody is worked out which is the biggest reason we won't move there full time yet.
I've started looking at vehicles so that I can leave one at the house in case I need to fly in for something during the seasons I don't live there and so that my partner and I won't have to drive two cars up there each time we migrate. It's also so I can keep a spare car in the South so I can fly in quickly and have transport if there's a child situation I am needed for during the summer/fall when I'm in VT. I know that becoming a 3 car household might be a sticking point for the MMM purists but I'll likely be going back and forth from Maine and VT a fair amount during the summers and my partner needs her own transport for her work and social life. Not sure about the feasibility of winterizing a vehicle and leaving it in that climate for the coldest months unless a future renter wants to rent a car along with the house. My hesitancy with pulling the trigger on keeping a spare vehicle there is compounded by the fact there is no garage and I don't think I can stomach paying to store a car for 6 months annually. At least I can cross off AWD and even 4WD as a requirement due to our neighborhood's ample plowing situation.
Can't think of anything else at the moment. I'll try to chime in with some responses to some of the other posts. I'm blown away at the quantity and quality of the tips you folks provided. Love this community!
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On electric heat. Anyone in New England will laugh their ass off at the notion that anyone would use electricity. Our rates are at the top, matched only by California and I think Hawaii. I lived in Virginia during grad school. Mass rates are double Virginia. Why? We're all powered by natural gas and the pipelines (we have a transfer station in my town) are woefully inadequate and any submission for new or upgraded lines are shot down by powerful residents.
.......
Wood burning. Sigh. So I forest manage my property for tax savings and for firewood. I've got both a Stihl pro and Husqvarna little (440) chainsaws, a log splitter and that 4x4 diesel tractor with a bucket to move it (and a cart). My property tax savings make it worth it, I love working in the woods and I love saving the money for heating oil, which 90% of homes in New England are heated by. But if I could not get the wood for free, I would never go through the expense and work of heating with wood. ....
I missed this on my previous reads of the thread. How much of Vermont electricity is from natural gas plants? I would have assumed the state would have massive investments in solar energy by now. Is that not the case, and if so, why not? (if that isn't too demanding/presumptive a question)
But even more importantly, I have to ask, if wood wasn't free what would you invest in for heating your home? Feels like a cliffhanger!
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A little late to the party, but I'm in Rutland and thought I would say hello!
I would not worry about buying a new car, just getting good winter tires is sufficient. Unless your driveway is particularly gnarly, and unplowed, you won't need studs. Just get some winter tires from one of the local shops and you will be fine. If you are a first-responder or otherwise have to go on back roads that are not plowed, than you might need more -- but your coworkers will be your best resource then. I wouldn't bother with dedicated rims for the winter tires either.
I also echo the sentiment that you need to own the winter, and make sure you make the most of the light and the outdoor options. There is great XC and downhill skiing here, or ice fishing, or sledding, or snow biking, or snowshoeing. More so if you have a relationship with drinking or drugs. Winters are long, days are short, and it's funny all the little things that can't happen, or that become difficult when you throw in ice and snow and cold. Keep chill, which is not hard in VT, and enjoy the scenery.
Some good duck boots (LL Bean?), or muck boots are important too -- lots of snow and slush mixed with salt.
Good gloves and a hat will become prized possessions, as will good socks. Darn Tough, is assumed. Good house slippers will be treasured. WRT long underwear, while wool is the best, you may find it irritating after days and days on your skin. I have a mix of wool, synthetic and blends, and in varying weights.
If you need social interaction, check out the Rutland Rocks curling club -- they do "learn to curl" sessions frequently (pre covid at least).
Since I moved here, about 8 years ago, I have enjoyed my motorcycle riding, trail running, and skiing (any mode you can think of), foraging -- all of which get me into the woods. Moving thru the woods all year round, thru all the seasons (except mud season, heh) gives me great joy.
Yah, Mud Season is a thing, when the spring rains come and melt the snow and ice.. Along with Stick Season, after the leaves go, but before the snow, it's what gives VT 6 seasons.
Wow, how cool. Hello neighbor!
So are you saying drinking/drugs makes the winter hobbies better or makes the winter hobbies more necessary? 2021 (a full six years post corporate) was the year I finally gave in, relaxed, and started smoking herb daily. It was very exciting that not so long ago I googled to see how Vermont's legalization efforts were going to find how much further along they were than just 6 or 7 years ago when I'd last specifically looked.
I'll be especially looking for summer hobbies as I'm transitioning away from "FI" to "RE" and it will be interesting to see what grabs my attention. I've even checked to see if Rutland had the closest bowling alley and if maybe I should embrace the full Lebowski and try some league play.
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Vermont rocks. We're residents in the Northeast Kingdom, right on the NH/Canadian borders. Have yet to spend a winter there but it's on the list (after we spend a lot of winters in the Caribbean and other warm sailing places!)
You've got this seasonal living thing figured out to the max!
Yeah, both my partner and I are looking forward to truly acclimating at some point to the full swing of seasons up there, but for right now we still have a familial connection that will keep us based in the South for about half the year. In the meantime, I'm living somewhat vicariously through this really sweet couple who are renting the house and sending amazing photos and occasional weather reports that seem relatively harrowing to these southern Mississippi temperatures I'm currently enjoying. One day when kiddo is in college or beyond maybe I'll pick up the sailing. Maybe. I've heard it gets "expensive" quick considering repeated equipment replacement and maintenance.
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I would break winter tires (NOT snow tires, as @RetiredAt63 correctly pointed out) into 4 categories. All-weather tires (not to be confused with all-season tires), performance winter tires, winter tires, and studded winter tires.
All-weather tires are essentially a new category of winter tires, and as of a few years ago the brand Nokian had the first and only in this category. They are real winter tires with the snowflake emblem on the tire, but can be used year round. While they're vastly better than all-season tires (which do not have the snowflake on the sidewall) I would only recommend them for someone who simply cannot store and change an extra set of tires. If you live in an apartment or a 500 sq. ft. house with no storage, then they're an acceptable option.
Performance winter tires, as Car Jack correctly pointed out, handle almost like all-season tires in the dry but do much better than all-season tires in cold, slush, snow, and on ice. If you are picky about how your car handles in the dry and can minimize time on snowy/icy roads, then they're a great option. They probably get you to 90% of the capability of the next category of tires in winter conditions, but without the slushy handling of the next category.
Winter tires are the most common category, and are what people mean when they talk about Blizzak-style tires. Blizzaks are just a brand name, like Kleenex, that is often used for a category even though Bridgestone has long had a Performance version (Blizzak LM....) of the Blizzaks just to capitalize on the brand name. This category of tires will generally give you the best performance in cold, slush, packed snow, and deep snow. The drawbacks are that they feel sloppy to drive on - every input is delayed a bit. People describe this as feeling like they're driving on mud or like the tires are underinflated. This feeling is something you can get used to pretty quickly. For people who live where there is a real winter and they need to drive in all conditions, I think these are the best option. As long as you expect slightly worse handling and stopping than you're used to with all-season tires in the dry, you'll be fine. And the upside is that when the conditions are less than ideal you'll have the best possible control of your vehicle.
The final category is studded tires. Again, Car Jack was correct. Studded tires do help on ice, but they hurt pretty much everywhere else. They're also loud, contribute to air pollution, tear up the roads, and can slide on roads that aren't covered in ice. I wouldn't recommend them unless the conditions in your area mean you'll be driving on bare ice very often.
I am bookmarking this for certain need of future reference, thanks!
We actually have some close friends that live near a Nokian factory in Tennessee who have joked that maybe they can source a private connection.
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The kids were super excited for ice skating this weekend. We convinced them -1 F on Saturday wasn't going to be a good time. So we went out yesterday in the 20 degree rain that turned to ice as soon as it touched anything.
They had a great time and fell asleep in the trailer on the way home.
I probably missed it in a previous post, but where are you based?
Is the weather you're experiencing somewhat warmer than it used to be even 5-10 years ago?
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Since this thread is back from the dead -- I've been thinking about purchasing both a trickle charger and a battery jump starter. We just have one car, and it's a Subaru Outback which seems to have a decent amount of passive energy draw. We've had to get it jumped twice in 18 months (in fairness, both times due to user error) and we have free roadside assistance from a credit card, but I'd like to be able to handle it ourselves, without relying on a tow truck.
Dumb question here and maybe it's already been covered, but do I need to get a different battery for a car that lives in VT/NE than I would for a car in the southeast?
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For years I made the mistake of ignoring my legs when trying to dress warmly. I'd have a billion layers on my top half, a hat, gloves, and then just... jeans. It's true that it's the wind, not just the cold, that really makes you feel cold. I've never been skiing (saw too many injuries among friends when I was a teenager), but I have two pairs of ski pants that I wear when outside with the dog, etc. They're a bit... swishy... for everyday wear, but they're great for around the yard, hiking, etc. I wear long underwear or thicker tight-fitting pants underneath, both to add warmth and to decrease the need for frequent washing.
If you're not in a situation where you can wear ski pants, then at least wear a coat that covers your butt and upper thighs. I've found that helps a lot. I see all these trendy cropped down puffy coats lately, and I wonder where on earth they expect people to wear them!
Fortunately for me, I neither have a fashion sense nor want one, so I'll dress however I need to survive. No joke, sometimes I even need long underwear on the Gulf Coast because the wetness in our cold here makes it hurt, even if it's only for a few weeks each year.
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On electric heat. Anyone in New England will laugh their ass off at the notion that anyone would use electricity. Our rates are at the top, matched only by California and I think Hawaii. I lived in Virginia during grad school. Mass rates are double Virginia. Why? We're all powered by natural gas and the pipelines (we have a transfer station in my town) are woefully inadequate and any submission for new or upgraded lines are shot down by powerful residents.
.......
Wood burning. Sigh. So I forest manage my property for tax savings and for firewood. I've got both a Stihl pro and Husqvarna little (440) chainsaws, a log splitter and that 4x4 diesel tractor with a bucket to move it (and a cart). My property tax savings make it worth it, I love working in the woods and I love saving the money for heating oil, which 90% of homes in New England are heated by. But if I could not get the wood for free, I would never go through the expense and work of heating with wood. ....
I missed this on my previous reads of the thread. How much of Vermont electricity is from natural gas plants? I would have assumed the state would have massive investments in solar energy by now. Is that not the case, and if so, why not? (if that isn't too demanding/presumptive a question)
But even more importantly, I have to ask, if wood wasn't free what would you invest in for heating your home? Feels like a cliffhanger!
Vermont claims to have 100% renewable electricty. With close to half coming from Hydro-Quebec. I don't totally believe it.
Pellets are more convenient than split wood and you can pay a premium for locally sourced pellets. Air-to-air heat pump with back up oil is what your energy inspector should have recommended. I like heat pump for a furnace replacement and wood stove for comfort heat (comfort in one room).
I keep laughing at Vermont's Congressman Peter Welch, defending a doubling of the home heating assistance funding in VT by saying, "There are some homes in Vermont where folks can see their breath inside." hahahaha. I wonder which homes in VT are so wasteful that they can't see their breath, at least upstairs.
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The kids were super excited for ice skating this weekend. We convinced them -1 F on Saturday wasn't going to be a good time. So we went out yesterday in the 20 degree rain that turned to ice as soon as it touched anything.
They had a great time and fell asleep in the trailer on the way home.
I probably missed it in a previous post, but where are you based?
Is the weather you're experiencing somewhat warmer than it used to be even 5-10 years ago?
I wouldn't trust my memory on this. But I am sure there is data. I am in the NEK. This winter is colder than last winter which was warmer than the winter before. -20 F is about the coldest I know and we generally reach it at least once. 30 degree temperature changes in a day are normal. Single digits are the most comfortable for me to recreate in. Anything over 32 degrees is a beach day and shorts are not strange to see.
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Since this thread is back from the dead -- I've been thinking about purchasing both a trickle charger and a battery jump starter. We just have one car, and it's a Subaru Outback which seems to have a decent amount of passive energy draw. We've had to get it jumped twice in 18 months (in fairness, both times due to user error) and we have free roadside assistance from a credit card, but I'd like to be able to handle it ourselves, without relying on a tow truck.
Dumb question here and maybe it's already been covered, but do I need to get a different battery for a car that lives in VT/NE than I would for a car in the southeast?
Yes, you may well need a different battery, depending on what you have now. The most important thing is called Cold Cranking Power, which needs to be a higher rating for batteries in cold weather areas. Otherwise, it won't start or won't keep running if it does.
I live further north than you where we have "cheap" electricity and it's still way more expensive to use that than natural gas, which most people have. So I would first use whatever other heat sources you have and leave electric as a last resort. You can also put your bills on a budget plan after the first year so that you pay the same amount year round with a one month adjustment bill. That way, no nasty surprises.
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Yes, you may well need a different battery, depending on what you have now. The most important thing is called Cold Cranking Power, which needs to be a higher rating for batteries in cold weather areas. Otherwise, it won't start or won't keep running if it does.
I live further north than you where we have "cheap" electricity and it's still way more expensive to use that than natural gas, which most people have. So I would first use whatever other heat sources you have and leave electric as a last resort. You can also put your bills on a budget plan after the first year so that you pay the same amount year round with a one month adjustment bill. That way, no nasty surprises.
Thanks.
I'd consider natural gas but as I understand it I'd have to bury a tank and I am 90% sure I can't do that on the rocky hillside my house is on.
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Pellets are more convenient than split wood and you can pay a premium for locally sourced pellets. Air-to-air heat pump with back up oil is what your energy inspector should have recommended. I like heat pump for a furnace replacement and wood stove for comfort heat (comfort in one room).
Definitely looking into a heat pump. Should I be concerned about what the inspector said about heat pumps not working at low temperatures?
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You might want to look into heat pumps in general, to understand what you're looking for and how you want to use it. They move heat from outside to in, or inside to out. The challenge in its heating mode is that the outdoor unit is a heat exchanger; when the temp difference narrows and the delta between the refrigerant temp and the air temp becomes smaller and smaller, the efficiency declines. Hence the recommendation for a backup heat source in areas where it's freaking freezing for chunks of time - a heat pump can quite literally stop working at super low temperatures.
A suggestion is to research by talking to a number of heating specialists. I'm not sure where in Vermont exactly you are (I have suspicions given that you're talking about Rutland being close enough to try bowling on the regular there) but local suppliers will be important. Brattleboro and Burlington have pretty different climate, weirdly enough.
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Pellets are more convenient than split wood and you can pay a premium for locally sourced pellets. Air-to-air heat pump with back up oil is what your energy inspector should have recommended. I like heat pump for a furnace replacement and wood stove for comfort heat (comfort in one room).
Definitely looking into a heat pump. Should I be concerned about what the inspector said about heat pumps not working at low temperatures?
The danger is freezing pipes. If you can size the heat pump to prevent freezing the pipes for the coldest period. There are calculations for this. I think MMM recently went through how to adjust them for less wasteful parameters. You might not be exactly comfortable 100% of the time, but you won’t destroy your house.
I bought a heat pump that works for most of its design down-to -20 F and then works less well.
Did you read the latest MMM article? Your furnace was likely sized 2-3x too big to keep a very drafty house hot during the coldest days.
Seeing sailing on a boats post. We used the HEAT Squad out of Rutland. They are reliable and a good place to start.
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I'm very curious about the heat pump in cold weather as well. We live in Virginia and the heat pump does NOT work well when it gets below 20 degrees F. The system literally cannot keep the house warm. We had the heat set at 62 degrees and it ran all day and didn't come up to temperature until about 3pm. The auxiliary heat kicks on (electric, so expensive) but it still didn't keep up. Granted, it's possible something is wrong with the system. I don't know enough about this stuff to know. For reference, our house is about 1900 sq ft and on a concrete slab, and my guess is the furnace is 20+ years old.
I'm astonished at the price of electricity in VT! The highest our bill has ever been is $220/month. $400-500/month blows my mind!
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I'm very curious about the heat pump in cold weather as well. We live in Virginia and the heat pump does NOT work well when it gets below 20 degrees F. The system literally cannot keep the house warm. We had the heat set at 62 degrees and it ran all day and didn't come up to temperature until about 3pm. The auxiliary heat kicks on (electric, so expensive) but it still didn't keep up. Granted, it's possible something is wrong with the system. I don't know enough about this stuff to know. For reference, our house is about 1900 sq ft and on a concrete slab, and my guess is the furnace is 20+ years old.
I'm astonished at the price of electricity in VT! The highest our bill has ever been is $220/month. $400-500/month blows my mind!
Its the technology that makes difference in new heat pumps. I live in Virginia also, and my mini-split (heat pump without ductwork) works just fine. Its rated to -5 F, though the coldest we've seen was +5 F a few nights, and it has no backup resistance heat strips. LG and Mitsubishi (maybe others too) makes units that will operate down to -20 F without backup resistance heat.
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So good to know the technology has advanced that much. We moved from central Virginia where our experience was much like @RainyDay - a heat pump (which we installed in 2003 or thereabouts) that kicked over to (super expensive) resistance electric heat when it went below 20. Happily that wasn't often, but it was a shock to the wallet when it did.
With Vermont the way it is, those units that'll go to -20 will be important. And I'd still throw in a backup source of heat!
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There is no one in Vermont that will acknowledge installing a heat pump without a backup source. I am 100% sure this is because most people can't comprehend allowing oneself to be uncomfortably cold in their houses. But there is also a very real risk of freezing pipes - the thing is that this is going to happen regardless of your heat source if your pipes are vulnerable in an uninsulated exterior wall or in a cold basement or if you run out of fuel (it has happened to EVERYONE at least once). My house had pipes freeze in basement when it was vacant and for sale. This was the result of a missed fuel delivery, a heat pump likely would not have had this problem because power outages are so short at my location.
We have the Mitsubishi and sought out the contractor that could provide it. The Fujitsu is very common also and I haven't heard any complaints on it yet. I haven't seen an LG that is described as a cold weather heat pump yet. The rebates in VT on these units is excellent and can be combined with other great funding options for more weatherization work (Heat Squad is going to give you a summary for free or maybe for $50). I have seen an excellent video about how there is still heat to be harvested even in very cold air. It compares the amount of heat in the air to 0 Kelvin and shows how far away -20 F is from 0 Kelvin in comparison to any temperature humans can endure.
$400-$500 per month is too much and something is going on that is wasting electricity. I don't know if OP said there was electric heat at this building, but those are the kinds of bills that result from electric heat. Maybe an older or multiple electric hot water heaters. We also have a "hybrid hot water heater" that uses a heat pump, but takes air from our otherwise conditioned space. We have ours in the basement which gets down to 50 and that slows the heat production down significantly (so much that we have it in hybrid mode now rather than full heat pump). Sometimes people put these in their garage, but mostly they are taking heat from your other heat source (furnace), still more efficient than using just electric heat if you can keep it in a place that can handle losing a few degrees.
@SailingOnASmallSailboat I can't imagine you would stay on the water in the winter! There are some pretty sweet ski rentals available in the area though. We had one once that we could take excellent ski tours from along the Long Trail and the area snow mobile trails.
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$400-$500 per month is too much and something is going on that is wasting electricity. I don't know if OP said there was electric heat at this building, but those are the kinds of bills that result from electric heat.
Yes, OP has electric resistance baseboard heat along with the wood stove.
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We have the Mitsubishi and sought out the contractor that could provide it. The Fujitsu is very common also and I haven't heard any complaints on it yet. I haven't seen an LG that is described as a cold weather heat pump yet.
We have a Fujitsu (in Nova Scotia) and have been very happy with it. We've had a lot of cold weather in the past few weeks (down to -20C) and it has continued to perform well. I just make sure to clear the outside unit after a heavy snow. We basically use the heat pump upstairs and a pellet stove downstairs. We also have resistance heat, but never use it.
The question we've been debating is what to do when the time comes to replace the pellet stove. Heat pumps are very efficient, and ours has been totally trouble free, but there's just something very cozy about the pellet stove. We'll see when the time comes!
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I just wanted to weigh in on one aspect of "culture" as someone who grew up a Yankee (born & raised in Connecticut, attended college & grad school in New Hampshire) but ended up living in the South as an adult. It's just... very different.
I'm super introverted, and was painfully shy as a kid/young adult, so I grew up feeling like I didn't fit in, couldn't make friends, wasn't "popular" enough. I always had a small tribe of close friends, but overall, I just felt like something was wrong with me. I could never put my finger on it. And then I moved to Florida after grad school (a purple part of the state) and suddenly everybody was so NICE to me. I actually cried the first time a waitress called me "hon" and seemed to mean it. I realized that it wasn't me, it was just that the people "up North" were less open and welcoming, and my own shyness made it difficult for me to overcome that. I sure wish I'd figured that out sooner.
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Wow, I didn't realize how long it'd been since I checked this thread, life really got away from me. Hopefully it's ok with the mods that I'm posting to such an old thread.
The rebates in VT on these units is excellent and can be combined with other great funding options for more weatherization work (Heat Squad is going to give you a summary for free or maybe for $50).
Coincidentally, Heat Squad is exactly who we went with. And yes, the rebates were stunning, coming from someone who is used to Red State distrust of subsidizing energy efficiency. We ended up getting the basement walls' insulation redone, had a vapor barrier put in, had the attic on the top story sprayed with closed cell foam and topped with cellulose AND put in the heat pumps. There have been significant reductions in power bills so far this winter, just not as drastic as I'd hoped (I'll post actual numbers if there's interest).
I just wanted to weigh in on one aspect of "culture" as someone who grew up a Yankee (born & raised in Connecticut, attended college & grad school in New Hampshire) but ended up living in the South as an adult. It's just... very different.
I'm super introverted, and was painfully shy as a kid/young adult, so I grew up feeling like I didn't fit in, couldn't make friends, wasn't "popular" enough. I always had a small tribe of close friends, but overall, I just felt like something was wrong with me. I could never put my finger on it. And then I moved to Florida after grad school (a purple part of the state) and suddenly everybody was so NICE to me. I actually cried the first time a waitress called me "hon" and seemed to mean it. I realized that it wasn't me, it was just that the people "up North" were less open and welcoming, and my own shyness made it difficult for me to overcome that. I sure wish I'd figured that out sooner.
This was a really thoughtful contribution, thank you! Approx where in the South did you end up?
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Wow, I didn't realize how long it'd been since I checked this thread, life really got away from me. Hopefully it's ok with the mods that I'm posting to such an old thread.
The rebates in VT on these units is excellent and can be combined with other great funding options for more weatherization work (Heat Squad is going to give you a summary for free or maybe for $50).
Coincidentally, Heat Squad is exactly who we went with. And yes, the rebates were stunning, coming from someone who is used to Red State distrust of subsidizing energy efficiency. We ended up getting the basement walls' insulation redone, had a vapor barrier put in, had the attic on the top story sprayed with closed cell foam and topped with cellulose AND put in the heat pumps. There have been significant reductions in power bills so far this winter, just not as drastic as I'd hoped (I'll post actual numbers if there's interest).
I just wanted to weigh in on one aspect of "culture" as someone who grew up a Yankee (born & raised in Connecticut, attended college & grad school in New Hampshire) but ended up living in the South as an adult. It's just... very different.
I'm super introverted, and was painfully shy as a kid/young adult, so I grew up feeling like I didn't fit in, couldn't make friends, wasn't "popular" enough. I always had a small tribe of close friends, but overall, I just felt like something was wrong with me. I could never put my finger on it. And then I moved to Florida after grad school (a purple part of the state) and suddenly everybody was so NICE to me. I actually cried the first time a waitress called me "hon" and seemed to mean it. I realized that it wasn't me, it was just that the people "up North" were less open and welcoming, and my own shyness made it difficult for me to overcome that. I sure wish I'd figured that out sooner.
This was a really thoughtful contribution, thank you! Approx where in the South did you end up?
I'd be interested to know what your heating bill in VT is. We are planning to move to a colder climate than we are at present.
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I'd be interested to know what your heating bill in VT is. We are planning to move to a colder climate than we are at present.
Sure! It's a small data set but enough to see what the improvements are (and aren't) saving me.
Nov 2021 — $177
Nov 2022 — $205
Dec 2021 — $409
Dec 2022 — $265
Jan 2022 —$501
Jan 2023 — $329
Feb 2022 — $777
Feb 2023 — $287
Mar 2022 —$514
Mar 2023 — (will edit to add)
Apr 2022 — $357
Apr 2023 —(will edit to add)
I installed an energy monitor on the breaker box in September so I need to go in and see if there's an obvious offender other than the electric baseboard heat still needing to be used as a backup during some of the doozy winter storm(s) the last few months brought.
I guess the next thing for me to target would be inner wall insulation. However the energy audit guys (Heat Squad) seemed to think it would be cost prohibitive as they advised against simply drilling holes and blowing insulation into the wall.
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We qualified for another weatherizarion program through NETO. They are going to do all the things that weren’t quite cost effective for Heat Squad to recommend.
Additional insulation dams around the soffits and chimney in the attic, a new attic access hatch, miscellaneous air sealing the doors, redoing and insulating my bathroom vents, and blowing dense pack cellulose in the walls and spaces between the floors.
It’s all free to me and they have an excellent reputation. We qualified because our income was low this past year since I went part time for a few months.
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I'd be interested to know what your heating bill in VT is. We are planning to move to a colder climate than we are at present.
Sure! It's a small data set but enough to see what the improvements are (and aren't) saving me.
Nov 2021 — $177
Nov 2022 — $205
Dec 2021 — $409
Dec 2022 — $265
Jan 2022 —$501
Jan 2023 — $329
Feb 2022 — $777
Feb 2023 — $287
Mar 2022 —$514
Mar 2023 — (will edit to add)
Apr 2022 — $357
Apr 2023 —(will edit to add)
I installed an energy monitor on the breaker box in September so I need to go in and see if there's an obvious offender other than the electric baseboard heat still needing to be used as a backup during some of the doozy winter storm(s) the last few months brought.
I guess the next thing for me to target would be inner wall insulation. However the energy audit guys (Heat Squad) seemed to think it would be cost prohibitive as they advised against simply drilling holes and blowing insulation into the wall.
I don't know anything about the insulation idea, but wow that is a huge savings from 2022 to 2023, way to go! I'm in a mild climate and my energy bill was almost $400 last month with my thermostat down to 65-66 (2000 sq ft house though). The temperature average here was between 51-67F in February with only one or two days that dipped below freezing. I'm really trying to figure out my energy costs for an eventual move to the north (probably northeast). Here we have one energy company. That company came in to take over the last company and they are major evil, our bills have doubled (even though we are using less energy this year). Sure we have the money, but I hate paying this particular bill. The injustice of this energy company having a monopoly (and the politics around here that allow it) is a big reasons we may leave here sooner. But it doesn't help struggling families who can't relocate.
Thank you very much for this info.
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We qualified for another weatherizarion program through NETO. They are going to do all the things that weren’t quite cost effective for Heat Squad to recommend.
Additional insulation dams around the soffits and chimney in the attic, a new attic access hatch, miscellaneous air sealing the doors, redoing and insulating my bathroom vents, and blowing dense pack cellulose in the walls and spaces between the floors.
We actually had most of those things done, just not the walls. If I recall correctly the insulation contractor said the potential for voids especially around switches, outlets, wires and pre existing insulation was so high that we'd be better off cost/efficiency-wise taking down the walls and spraying closed cell foam. We weren't quite ready for that undertaking yet.
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How is the rental working out? Are you making good cash flow? Can you visit or only between renters?
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We qualified for another weatherizarion program through NETO. They are going to do all the things that weren’t quite cost effective for Heat Squad to recommend.
Additional insulation dams around the soffits and chimney in the attic, a new attic access hatch, miscellaneous air sealing the doors, redoing and insulating my bathroom vents, and blowing dense pack cellulose in the walls and spaces between the floors.
We actually had most of those things done, just not the walls. If I recall correctly the insulation contractor said the potential for voids especially around switches, outlets, wires and pre existing insulation was so high that we'd be better off cost/efficiency-wise taking down the walls and spraying closed cell foam. We weren't quite ready for that undertaking yet.
In my (warm) area people are advertising a foam that is sprayed into small holes in the drywall that can be easily patched. I think it was $7 / sf of wall last time I checked. I was tempted.
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We qualified for another weatherizarion program through NETO. They are going to do all the things that weren’t quite cost effective for Heat Squad to recommend.
Additional insulation dams around the soffits and chimney in the attic, a new attic access hatch, miscellaneous air sealing the doors, redoing and insulating my bathroom vents, and blowing dense pack cellulose in the walls and spaces between the floors.
We actually had most of those things done, just not the walls. If I recall correctly the insulation contractor said the potential for voids especially around switches, outlets, wires and pre existing insulation was so high that we'd be better off cost/efficiency-wise taking down the walls and spraying closed cell foam. We weren't quite ready for that undertaking yet.
In my (warm) area people are advertising a foam that is sprayed into small holes in the drywall that can be easily patched. I think it was $7 / sf of wall last time I checked. I was tempted.
I think this only works well if you have no insulation in your walls. But someone correct me if I'm wrong!
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We qualified for another weatherization program through NETO. They are going to do all the things that weren’t quite cost effective for Heat Squad to recommend.
Additional insulation dams around the soffits and chimney in the attic, a new attic access hatch, miscellaneous air sealing the doors, redoing and insulating my bathroom vents, and blowing dense pack cellulose in the walls and spaces between the floors.
We actually had most of those things done, just not the walls. If I recall correctly the insulation contractor said the potential for voids especially around switches, outlets, wires and pre existing insulation was so high that we'd be better off cost/efficiency-wise taking down the walls and spraying closed cell foam. We weren't quite ready for that undertaking yet.
Everything I have heard is that this contractor is so experienced with homes in this area that there isn't going to be a problem with the existing insulation that I put in or with the electrical wires (I don't have any knob and tube). My brother bought a house, similar in vintage to mine, that this group blew dense pack cellulose into 20 years ago and everything we have opened up so far (for electrical replacement and a new bathroom addition) all looks really good.
Now that I am living with the spray foam in the basement, I am motivated to not add any more foam into my living environment. I'll take my chances with the borax in the dese pack cellulose over the unknown in the foam. I have seen a few homes with their siding and sheathing off and foam sprayed into the stud bays (more often I see this in older timber frame homes where there aren't stick built stud bays). It is intense and looks a lot like rebuilding the house, but I think is a more feasible option for timber frame structures. My balloon frame stick built house can handle the dense pack cellulose just fine.
I am pretty excited. This will bring us almost all the way through the ABCs of weatherization. Attic, Basement, Conditioned space.
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How is the rental working out? Are you making good cash flow? Can you visit or only between renters?
The renters who stayed over last fall/winter/spring became good friends and decided to stay again this winter. We're renting under-market because they have handled a lot in our absence and have been patient with us as we get the upgrades done. Technically it's cash-flowing but we have also spent 5 figures between weatherization and insulation, new chimney liner, and a new wood stove. BUT the cash flow potential is there if our current renters decide not to come back next winter. Houses nearby have been selling for more than double what we got ours for so it seems by dumb-luck we got our foot in the door before the area priced us out.
We got to stay for the summer last year and will this year as well. A family obligation has somewhat unexpectedly required us to spend the rest of the year back in Louisiana, but at least we get to escape the hottest months with our current arrangement. Hoping we eventually split our time 50/50 between Vermont and the South but that's a little out of our hands right now.
Last summer was like a dream, and that was still with me covered in sheet rock dust or fiberglass most of that time getting 70s Era wall texture removed and working on wiring and pulling out can lights in the attic prior to insulation upgrades. The dog was happier, DW was happier (started a new online business herself), and I was pretty blissed out. Really looking forward to seeing what this summer holds for us.