Author Topic: Advice for 18-23 year young men  (Read 1774 times)

Unique User

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Advice for 18-23 year young men
« on: December 04, 2018, 04:23:15 PM »
My daughter has a few young men she works with that are 18, 20 and 23.  None did particularly well in high school and have parents that could not afford college, in fact the family of one has struggled with homelessness a couple times in the last year.  The 18 year old is a senior, but graduates this year and is thinking ahead.  DD offered me up to help them explore options that are not the slightly above minimum wage food service they are working now.  I work in healthcare so can talk with them about that and a few other industries I'm knowledgeable about.  I was also going to recommend they talk with a recruiter for the Navy and/or Coast Guard.  I'm not sure yet what they like/don't like except for one that was selling door to door.  He has no fear of being told no, which makes him a natural for sales, but he is only 20 and the other company took advantage of him and changed his pay structure after he started selling.  Any ideas that I can suggest to these young men?  They all want better jobs, just don't know where to go next.  Thanks in advance!!

Cwadda

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2018, 11:39:13 PM »
At least in my state, the trades are starving for new laborers. Apprenticeships pay decently well ($15-$20/hr) and after 2 years you're making $100/hr. Also, trade schools in my area are very well supported, it basically allows one to get paid while learning a trade.

Plumbers, electricians, elevator mechanics, and painters can do incredibly well and with no college degree. A relative of mine makes $100k/yr as a painter and 60% of that is under the table. Which is more like making $120k/yr or even higher.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2018, 05:37:35 AM »
At least in my state, the trades are starving for new laborers. Apprenticeships pay decently well ($15-$20/hr) and after 2 years you're making $100/hr. Also, trade schools in my area are very well supported, it basically allows one to get paid while learning a trade.

Plumbers, electricians, elevator mechanics, and painters can do incredibly well and with no college degree. A relative of mine makes $100k/yr as a painter and 60% of that is under the table. Which is more like making $120k/yr or even higher.



This is what I was going to suggest so +1

BicycleB

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2018, 08:32:44 AM »
Research community colleges in your area. They usually include vocational programs and are affordable. Some of them have programs designed to lead to jobs in local industries.

Make sure they know how Pell grants work - that:
-they're free from the gov't
-they don't have to be paid back
-the $ amount available depends on your family income so it works in their favor for once if family income is low
-depending on the above, the Pell amount might pay for some or even all of the classes that they want!
-they're only available if their classes are part of a degree program, but it can be a two year associate's degree

Also:
-if you stop making progress toward the degree, you stop getting them
-if you flunk too many classes, you stop getting them
-so if you're going to flunk a class, drop it early enough in the semester so the course is shown as a drop, not an F

And:
-if they live away from home (outside their parents' house; they can live in the same town) for a calendar year without family support, they become independent for financial aid purposes, which depending on their own income and their family's might increase the amount available to them

https://www.thebalance.com/should-i-apply-for-a-pell-grant-2386206



NYCWife

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2018, 08:45:57 AM »
At least in my state, the trades are starving for new laborers. Apprenticeships pay decently well ($15-$20/hr) and after 2 years you're making $100/hr. Also, trade schools in my area are very well supported, it basically allows one to get paid while learning a trade.

Plumbers, electricians, elevator mechanics, and painters can do incredibly well and with no college degree. A relative of mine makes $100k/yr as a painter and 60% of that is under the table. Which is more like making $120k/yr or even higher.

Same here--all of the tradesmen who work with us on our house share that they are hard up for staff (we are just finishing renovating a 100-year-old Victorian). My local electrician even shared that for a willing apprentice, he'd be willing to help foot the bill for required coursework. Our neighbor who is a general contractor has to work weekends to keep up with demand and is already booked until next June.

rubybeth

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socaso

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2018, 09:25:34 AM »
Barbering is a very in demand trade school job in a number of states where I have lived. It pays pretty well and you can always get jobs. There are upscale barber shops springing up everywhere. Some states will allow you to get a license by working in a specially licensed training salon so it's essentially a paid training if you do that. It's a great career for people who are creative and like job flexibility.

use2betrix

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2018, 09:32:22 AM »
At least in my state, the trades are starving for new laborers. Apprenticeships pay decently well ($15-$20/hr) and after 2 years you're making $100/hr. Also, trade schools in my area are very well supported, it basically allows one to get paid while learning a trade.

Plumbers, electricians, elevator mechanics, and painters can do incredibly well and with no college degree. A relative of mine makes $100k/yr as a painter and 60% of that is under the table. Which is more like making $120k/yr or even higher.

Do you mean $100k/yr in the bolder above?

elaine amj

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2018, 10:01:46 AM »
My DS16 is considering a career in the trades. Just not sure which trade. He's doing his high school co-op in a machinist department now and considering apprenticing in it but I am dubious about pay potential. He prefers doing stuff to studying but is not particularly handy. And hasn't come across anything he is particularly interested in as yet.

He does like his cooking class at school (and has always enjoyed any time in the kitchen) but says pay is too bad. I'm big on good pay (I read a lot of labor market studies lol) - but I think doing something you area reasonably interested in is a decent trade off.

Sent from my LG-K373 using Tapatalk


dcozad999

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2018, 10:10:35 AM »
The IBEW (electrical union) apprenticeship program in my town is an exceptional path to making decent money. And the beauty of these types of apprenticeships is you get paid while you learn on the job.

It's a 5 year apprenticeship that starts at $14.42/hour with benefits, and the pay increases after each level (10 levels). At the end of the apprenticeship they are making $32/hour. And this type of work opens up great opportunities to take on side jobs if you want them.

http://topekaelectricaljatc.com/current_apprentice_information

BicycleB

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2018, 11:21:53 AM »
Anecdote: I asked my dental hygienist once how she chose her profession. She said she looked up the pay rates of different jobs using a government database, and picked the one that had the pay without requiring too much education time.

Maybe have the guys explore job categories, job titles, pay rates, and education on O*NET, the US Dept of Labor database that describes occupational outlook and requirements for jobs in the American economy. It's a super rich tool:
https://www.onetonline.org/

Here is a general link worth exploring if O*NET is dense at first; this is a bit more engagingly written:
https://www.thebalancecareers.com/salaries-for-jobs-a-z-list-2063402

Syonyk

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2018, 11:35:18 AM »
At least in my state, the trades are starving for new laborers.

Seriously.  If they're willing to get out of bed, show up, and work somewhat hard, they can go quite far in that realm.  A friend of mine out here is a general contractor and is constantly struggling to find people who do good work.  He'll train, but he's having trouble finding anyone even willing to show up - and it's not just him.  Good luck getting something framed out here.

The electrician path, with a focus on solar installs and code, is probably a niche that will work very well also - it's hard to outsource building and remodeling, though it tends to be a boom-bust cycle of work with the economic cycles.

Boofinator

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2018, 11:49:59 AM »
At least in my state, the trades are starving for new laborers. Apprenticeships pay decently well ($15-$20/hr) and after 2 years you're making $100/hr. Also, trade schools in my area are very well supported, it basically allows one to get paid while learning a trade.

Plumbers, electricians, elevator mechanics, and painters can do incredibly well and with no college degree. A relative of mine makes $100k/yr as a painter and 60% of that is under the table. Which is more like making $120k/yr or even higher.

Though I agree most of this is solid advice, I would leave the bolded part out (for obvious reasons).

FIRE@50

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2018, 11:55:11 AM »
At least in my state, the trades are starving for new laborers. Apprenticeships pay decently well ($15-$20/hr) and after 2 years you're making $100/hr. Also, trade schools in my area are very well supported, it basically allows one to get paid while learning a trade.

Plumbers, electricians, elevator mechanics, and painters can do incredibly well and with no college degree. A relative of mine makes $100k/yr as a painter and 60% of that is under the table. Which is more like making $120k/yr or even higher.



This is what I was going to suggest so +1
You were also going to suggest tax fraud? Interesting.

sol

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2018, 11:57:58 AM »
and 60% of that is under the table.

Though I agree most of this is solid advice, I would leave the bolded part out (for obvious reasons).

If we're going down this road, you might as well tell them you can clear about a grand a day pimping, with great side benefits.  Dealing isn't quite as profitable but it's easier to break into for a small time operator.

twe

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2018, 06:37:38 PM »
I vote for the military. For young men who don't know how to be successful in life but do have a work ethic, military service has a way of taking the work ethic and using it to help them figure out how to be successful post military (plus many jobs give trade / trade type training that directly transfers out). There are certainly drawbacks to the military, but nothing else comes close to the results it generates at putting young men on a different path.

C-note

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2018, 06:55:56 PM »
Along with trades is also mechanics - gasoline, diesel, airline, small engine, etc. 

Definitely another area of need.

chemistk

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2018, 05:45:00 AM »
I think if I could go back 10 years and do it again, and i decided not to go to college, I'd take the trades route.

My youngest brother spent a year or so working alongside my uncle in his HVAC business, with the intent that he'd mostly take over once he was up to snuff. They butted heads and it didn't work out, but he was able to immediately get a full-time gig with a bigger HVAC group. All this without even having attended one hour of school related to the job. He spent a semester in community college that had nothing to do with trade-work either.

It's physically tough and the hours can be long (and the customers can be a pain) but from what he says, as long as you're halfway competent and can follow directions you can get a trade job pretty much anywhere.

Cwadda

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2018, 12:48:11 PM »
At least in my state, the trades are starving for new laborers. Apprenticeships pay decently well ($15-$20/hr) and after 2 years you're making $100/hr. Also, trade schools in my area are very well supported, it basically allows one to get paid while learning a trade.

Plumbers, electricians, elevator mechanics, and painters can do incredibly well and with no college degree. A relative of mine makes $100k/yr as a painter and 60% of that is under the table. Which is more like making $120k/yr or even higher.

Do you mean $100k/yr in the bolder above?

I'm not sure about $100k/year. I know $100/hr is what the usual rate is for trades in my area. Better data can be found using the Bureau of Labor Statistics. https://www.bls.gov/

Quote
Though I agree most of this is solid advice, I would leave the bolded part out (for obvious reasons).
Why? It's no secret that people in these fields can benefit from the current tax structure. You install new pipes or plow a driveway, collect your cash, and be on your way.

Quote
You were also going to suggest tax fraud? Interesting.
I'm not suggesting people commit tax fraud. I'm just saying how it is. It's no different than saying the President of the United States pays very few taxes. Some people see that as virtuous/smart/savvy; personally I don't.

Syonyk

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2018, 01:11:35 PM »
I'm pretty sure "Not reporting cash income" still counts as "tax fraud."

Still Being

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2018, 01:33:05 PM »
"Under the table" = tax fraud

That's just a fact. The morality of it could be a whole other thread.


Some good suggestions here. Was thinking government work would be the main recommendation.

mm1970

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2018, 02:27:11 PM »
I'm pretty sure "Not reporting cash income" still counts as "tax fraud."
He wasn't suggesting people DO IT, he was pointing out that it happens.  Just stating the facts.

robartsd

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2018, 03:06:56 PM »
I'm not sure about $100k/year. I know $100/hr is what the usual rate is for trades in my area. Better data can be found using the Bureau of Labor Statistics. https://www.bls.gov/
$100k/yr sounds very likely. $50/hr * 40hr/wk * 50wk/yr = $100k/yr. Even lower basic hourly wages can easily reach $100k/yr with overtime pay (55hr/wk @ $32/hr).

Considering supply/demand, billing skilled trades at about $100/hr sounds about right, but wages are only a portion of labor charges.

Boofinator

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2018, 03:22:19 PM »
Quote
Though I agree most of this is solid advice, I would leave the bolded part out (for obvious reasons).
Why? It's no secret that people in these fields can benefit from the current tax structure. You install new pipes or plow a driveway, collect your cash, and be on your way.

No, the current tax structure says you report all earned income and pay the appropriate taxes. I realize a lot of people in the trades break the law through tax evasion. Some of them even have the luxury of staying at an all-inclusive prison for their behaviors.

frugaliknowit

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2018, 01:42:48 PM »
The lad with the sales talent can get a real estate license, then hit it.

Cwadda

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2018, 12:26:27 PM »
I'm pretty sure "Not reporting cash income" still counts as "tax fraud."
He wasn't suggesting people DO IT, he was pointing out that it happens.  Just stating the facts.

Thank you, kind internet stranger!

Still scratching my head wondering where I actually suggested or recommending committing tax fraud.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 12:29:48 PM by Cwadda »

marty998

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2018, 01:30:08 PM »
I'm pretty sure "Not reporting cash income" still counts as "tax fraud."
He wasn't suggesting people DO IT, he was pointing out that it happens.  Just stating the facts.

Thank you, kind internet stranger!

Still scratching my head wondering where I actually suggested or recommending committing tax fraud.

@Cwadda the standard you walk by is the standard you accept. You are ok with your relative committing tax fraud and you dropped it in your post as kind of like a perk of the job.

If you said "my relative does this BUT IT IS WRONG" then you would not have copped the responses you have.

GuitarStv

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2018, 02:03:41 PM »
At least in my state, the trades are starving for new laborers. Apprenticeships pay decently well ($15-$20/hr) and after 2 years you're making $100/hr. Also, trade schools in my area are very well supported, it basically allows one to get paid while learning a trade.

Plumbers, electricians, elevator mechanics, and painters can do incredibly well and with no college degree. A relative of mine makes $100k/yr as a painter and 60% of that is under the table. Which is more like making $120k/yr or even higher.

Do you mean $100k/yr in the bolder above?

I'm not sure about $100k/year. I know $100/hr is what the usual rate is for trades in my area. Better data can be found using the Bureau of Labor Statistics. https://www.bls.gov/

100$ an hour for a typical week is 4000$.  52 weeks a year, let's assume a month of vacation off each year, that means that they're clearing just shy of 200,000 dollars a year within two years?   That seems very high.

A quick search of Indeed (https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Skilled-Trades/salaries) indicates that skilled trades make between 15 and 40$ an hour.  To double check the numbers I found this article (https://work.chron.com/typical-wage-tradesman-9225.html), indicating that the lower 90% of all electricians earn less than 82,680$ per year, the lower 90% of all plumbers earn less than 82,310$ per year, and the lower 90% of all carpenters make less than 71,890$ per year.

I think that the numbers you're listing are a bit optimistic.

Duke03

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2018, 05:27:39 PM »
Best advice I ever got when I was 18 to 23... Use Protection every time!!! 

AccidentalMiser

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2018, 05:54:03 PM »
I joined the Navy when I was 19, four days after I got married.  They taught me to run a nuke plant and I became an operator.  When I got out, I had my pick of operator jobs and doubled what I was making in the Nav as soon as I got out.

Fast forward 25 years, still in the nuke industry.  This year, I'll make 210k working 40 hours a week on dayshift.  Having said that, I'd be reluctant to enter the nuke industry now unless I was willing to go where the work is.

Trades are good, too.  My son is trying to choose between three good jobs after getting out of machinists and welding school and working for a year. 


Cwadda

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2018, 06:32:50 PM »
I'm pretty sure "Not reporting cash income" still counts as "tax fraud."
He wasn't suggesting people DO IT, he was pointing out that it happens.  Just stating the facts.

Thank you, kind internet stranger!

Still scratching my head wondering where I actually suggested or recommending committing tax fraud.

@Cwadda the standard you walk by is the standard you accept. You are ok with your relative committing tax fraud and you dropped it in your post as kind of like a perk of the job.

If you said "my relative does this BUT IT IS WRONG" then you would not have copped the responses you have.

And I already pointed out in my post that it is wrong. That's all that needs to be said.

Unique User

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2018, 06:14:51 AM »
Thank you all for the tips!!

soccerluvof4

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Re: Advice for 18-23 year young men
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2018, 10:16:27 AM »
I vote for the military. For young men who don't know how to be successful in life but do have a work ethic, military service has a way of taking the work ethic and using it to help them figure out how to be successful post military (plus many jobs give trade / trade type training that directly transfers out). There are certainly drawbacks to the military, but nothing else comes close to the results it generates at putting young men on a different path.



This is what i did. I graduated HS at 17 and got parents permission /signature. I had no idea what i wanted to do and would of just got in trouble. Was very immature and I grew up in the military and learned to appreciate alot of small things in life. Definitely wasn't for me long term but glad I went that route.