Author Topic: Buying a car with third row seats???  (Read 14645 times)

Jimmay

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Buying a car with third row seats???
« on: December 26, 2014, 10:20:20 AM »
Hi! We are in the early stages of buying a new car. We are expecting our third child in a few months and would like a car with third row seats.  Children's ages would range from 3 - newborn. 

My wife does not want a minivan, so we are mainly considering suv's at the moment.  We are currently considering a ford flex, honda pilot, toyota highlander, etc...  This car is going to be used as the vacation/school wagon.

Does anyone have any experience with these types of cars and what should I look for in a suv with fitting three car seats?

I see a lot of mustachians have higher mileage vehicles. To keep costs down is it advisable to buy a higher mileage vehicle or should I be wary if I find a car with over 100k plus miles?  Also, is it ever advisable to buy a new car if you plan to keep it for 10 to 15 years?

Thank you for any insight you can shed on my upcoming decision...

Gin1984

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2014, 10:30:53 AM »
I did not want a mini van either but then when at the Toyota dealer, I test drove a sienna and highlander.  The sienna handled better plus had a higher mpg.  You may want yo test drive these cars and get a feel before saying no.

neo von retorch

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2014, 10:47:07 AM »
Want != best financial choice.

All you need is a car of some sort that can fit three kids ranging in age from newborn to 13 (assuming you keep any car you purchase at least 10 years).

Flex, Pilot and Highlander are huge, expensive and inefficient.

While it's good to reference reliability from Consumer Reports, most cars made in the last 10-15 years are good for 200k with some regular maintenance. While 100k+ includes some additional maintenance (timing belt/water pump, spark plugs, etc) most modern cars will work just as well during that second 100k miles, and additional maintenance cost is less than purchasing a 0-100k car.

MilitaryMan

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2014, 10:50:17 AM »
Honda Odyssey minivan.  We have three kids in car seats.  Across the middle.  It's the best.  Practical, reliable.  Relatively easy to get kids in and out. 

Why don't you want a minivan?  Surely not status or worry about what people think about you?  :)

Congrats on number three, once they out number you, you are really in for it!

ASquared

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2014, 11:46:51 AM »
Diono - check out this car seat brand for narrow seats that will fit 3 across in most cars.

FarmerPete

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2014, 12:25:52 PM »
Hi! We are in the early stages of buying a new car. We are expecting our third child in a few months and would like a car with third row seats.  Children's ages would range from 3 - newborn. 

My wife does not want a minivan, so we are mainly considering suv's at the moment.  We are currently considering a ford flex, honda pilot, toyota highlander, etc...  This car is going to be used as the vacation/school wagon.

Does anyone have any experience with these types of cars and what should I look for in a suv with fitting three car seats?

I see a lot of mustachians have higher mileage vehicles. To keep costs down is it advisable to buy a higher mileage vehicle or should I be wary if I find a car with over 100k plus miles?  Also, is it ever advisable to buy a new car if you plan to keep it for 10 to 15 years?

Thank you for any insight you can shed on my upcoming decision...

The problem with most SUVs is that they have 3 seats in the middle row.  This makes getting into the third row very difficult.  My recommendation is to find three car seats that will fit in a normal car and forgo the SUV completely.  If you must get a bigger car, go with a fuel efficient van.  With regular maintenance, a car will go over 100k easily.  I always use excel to break down decisions like this.  Lets do some simple math.

10 year car costs assuming 12k miles a year.
$30,000 new SUV
2 sets of tires = $800x2 = $1600
2 sets of brakes = $450x2 = $900
Break/Fix = $500 a year x 7 = $3500
Oil Changes = $40 * 2.4 * 10 = $960
Total 10 yr Cost = $36,960 or $3,696 per year.

2005 PONTIAC MONTANA 143k miles.  $3300 full asking price.
Drive 4 years to take it just under 200k miles.
1 set of tires = $800
1 set of brakes = $450
Break/Fix = $1000 a year x 4 = $4000
Oil Changes = $384
Total 4 year cost = $2233.5

2007 Buick Rendezvous CX 134k miles, $5350 full asking price.
Drive 5 years to take it under 200k miles.
1 set of tires = $800
1 set of brakes = $450
Break/Fix = $1000 a year x 5 = $5000
Oil Changes = $480
Total 5 year cost = $2416


Lets assume you keep that brand new car to 200k miles.
16 year car costs assuming 12k miles a year.
$30,000 new SUV
4 sets of tires = $800x4 = $3200
4 sets of brakes = $450x4 = $1800
Break/Fix = $500 a year x 7 = $3500
Break/Fix = $1000 a year x 6 = $6000
Oil Changes = $40 * 2.4 * 16 = $1536
Total 16 yr Cost = $46,036 or $2877 per year.

All of these assumptions assume the car is worth $0 at the end of it's life which is obviously not true.  Odds are you can sell the car for $1-2k (or more) at 200k miles.  All of them have 3 rows of seats.  Used car prices were taken from Craigslist near me (Michigan).  I'm sure you could negotiate those down.  I didn't bother pricing a new SUV so $30k might be high/low depending on make/model/options.  I also assumed a standard 3 year 36k warranty would remove all break/fix issues, although that's probably not fully accurate.

TerriM

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2014, 12:44:17 PM »
Why don't you want a minivan?

We have three kids, and I *do* understand the frustration of trying to get all three buckled in, though ours are farther apart in age--you probably have 2 more years where you can do five pt harnesses with all three so that you don't have to reach down and try to buckle the seatbelt.  That's the worst with three kids in carseats.  Obviously you will be limited on the car choice by the sizes of the carseats--make sure to bring them with you when you go shopping.  Even in a minivan, you can only get three average carseats across in the middle row--the back is narrower. 


We have friends who love the Honda Pilot.  We personally have a Honda Odyssey.  I know that Minivans are not "mustachian", but we have four kids in the car on average twice a week as I take another kid home for playdates or to save his mom a trip if I'm already picking up--my son and hers have been best friends for most of their life, so we see them frequently.  I also need to transport 4x8's around on occasion.  I did the minivan so that I could transport furniture as well.

I think you should try both--not clear to me that you have the headroom clearance in an SUV do you?  In the Minivan, I can climb in and walk around buckling people if I need to.

BTW:  If you want a lot of room to climb in, the Toyota Sienna does have the seats fold forward.  You could leave one in a permanently folded position and have easy access to three seats.

TerriM

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2014, 12:52:20 PM »
PS: I chose the Odyssey over the Sienna because I was concerned that the cargo-door latch would be hard to open on the Sienna but the Odyssey is easy.  In retrospect, I probably should've paid more attention to the seats folding forward--I do not remember if you could fit a 4x8 in with the seats folded forward, but having removed the odyssey seats completely a couple of times now, I now wish I'd measured.

I still think that the Sienna cargo door latch is badly designed though.

Also, if you have an option to buy the jumpseat (8th seat), for cheap, take it.  There are times we put all three kids in the middle row and a bunch of luggage or bikes in the back.

Eric

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2014, 01:18:28 PM »
Hi! We are in the early stages of buying a new car. We are expecting our third child in a few months and would like a car with third row seats.  Children's ages would range from 3 - newborn. 

My wife does not want a minivan, so we are mainly considering suv's at the moment.  We are currently considering a ford flex, honda pilot, toyota highlander, etc...  This car is going to be used as the vacation/school wagon.

How about a Mazda 5?  Sliding doors, three rows of seats, yet still drives like a car and gets pretty good gas mileage.  Way better than your SUV list.


I see a lot of mustachians have higher mileage vehicles. To keep costs down is it advisable to buy a higher mileage vehicle or should I be wary if I find a car with over 100k plus miles? 

This is semi-dependent on how many miles you drive.  But these days, 100k miles is not a whole lot.  Most well made cars will easily reach 200k+.

Also, is it ever advisable to buy a new car if you plan to keep it for 10 to 15 years?

Probably not, as the opportunity cost isn't worth it.  That's an awful lot of money to tie up in a depreciating asset when you could spend a third or a quarter of that amount and invest the remainder. 

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/11/28/new-cars-and-auto-financing-stupid-or-sensible/

Eric

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2014, 01:27:05 PM »
I know that Minivans are not "mustachian"

Considering MMM owns a minivan, I'm going to go with at least slightly Mustachian.  :)

TerriM

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2014, 01:31:53 PM »
There are a handful of advantages of a new car:
1.  Looks good if you're driving around high-profile clients (which you're not)
2.  You know its history and that it hasn't had any accidents (with a used car, you have no guarantees period)
3.  It is less likely to break down in the first 5-7 years.

The question is how #2 and #3 matter to you.  Would you'd pay $5-8K to not have to deal with a tow truck with three young kids or to find out that your car had been in an accident that you don't find out until later about? 

BUT with three young kids, your car is going to be trashed.  Completely.  I mean, like, shoe prints on the ceiling, legos stuck in all crevices, stickers on the windows, crayon on the walls. Cheerios smashed into the carpet.  Seems a waste of a new car.  Even my husband--who values new cars for both the appearance and the reliability aspect--wouldn't buy a new car in this case.

TerriM

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2014, 01:34:36 PM »
I know that Minivans are not "mustachian"

Considering MMM owns a minivan, I'm going to go with at least slightly Mustachian.  :)

Oooh.  Forgot about that, but he uses it for work.  Not that parenting isn't work.  It is.  And sometimes it does require a minivan.

Cassie

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2014, 02:36:33 PM »
You can find out if a car has been in an accident before you buy it.  I think the site is car fax that you need to run the vin #.

mm1970

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2014, 02:47:47 PM »
Hm.  I don't have a huge amount of experience, but I do have a number of friends with 3 children in car seats.  And they all have...wait for it...minivans.

The Diono carseat recommendation is a good one, but I find that most newer cars still don't fit 3 seats across very well.  It's really hard to get 3 seats in there.  We have managed one carseat and 2 backless boosters, but that's the best we can do with a Matrix.  And smaller SUVs aren't much better.

I have a friend who got an SUV with the 3rd row when she was pregnant with twins (and had a 2 year old).  I said "just get the minivan".  "My husband doesn't want one."

6 months later they had the minivan anyway, because they couldn't get the older child into the 3rd row UNLESS they put him in through the trunk.  Yep.  A big SUV too.

Just get the minivan.

StartingEarly

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2014, 03:10:02 PM »
The tow truck argument goes under the safety falicy.  You aren't at a much higher risk of needing a tow, so you shouldn't spend a huge amount of money to avoid increasing that risk.  All cars can end up needing a tow, some, cough dodge cough, need them more often.

startingsmall

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2014, 03:38:15 PM »
I recently bought a Mazda5 and LOOOOOOOOOOVE it.   Have your wife test drive one before she declares herself a minivan hater.  It's not REALLY a minivan - I alternate between referring to it as "my microvan" and "my wagon."

We currently only have one child, but are planning for a second in the next year or so and have frequent visitors from out of town.  Third row seating was a priority for us.  The Mazda5 was by far the best 3rd-row option - low purchase price  (we bought new for $18.5k), more fuel-efficient than other 3rd-row vehicles (we average 26-28 mpg), sporty car-like handling (better ride & tighter turning radius than my previous car, a Nissan Sentra), and plenty of interior space (had my 23-year old brother in the third row over the weekend with no complaints).   Seriously cannot say enough good things about this vehicle.  LOVE IT.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2014, 03:55:00 PM by startingsmall »

GeneralJinjur

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2014, 03:48:43 PM »
My first choice with 3 little people would be the Mazda5, with a rooftop carrier for vacations.  If one of the drivers is claustrophobic, I would go for the mainstream minivans second.  SUVs get their ground clearance at the expense of all that luscious cargo space found in minivans.  So you end up with cramped heads and feet in the 3rd row, little cargo space and horrible gas mileage, which many drive just because "it's not a minivan!"

I am now an acute care nurse and have a 2007 Santa Fe that I bought because of the 3rd row and needing the elevation to get to the hospital during bad snows, but it averages 17-18 mpg!!!  Makes me sick and I look back fondly on getting 24-29 mpg in the old Honda Odyssey. 

MicroRN

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2014, 04:24:19 PM »
Don't be afraid of higher mileage vehicles, especially with Toyotas and Hondas.  With good care vehicles last a long time, and are steeply discounted after 100K miles.  Some need an expensive round of repairs between 100-150K miles, but it will still cost you less than buying new.  Get a roadside assistance plan (AAA, or maybe your auto insurance offers a much cheaper one), because breakdowns happen even with brand new cars, and budget for repairs.  My Honda accord went over 275,000 miles before I traded it in, and broke down once.  My at-the-time 10 year old Dodge Neon needed one repair - a new battery - in the 2.5 years I owned it. 

Thegoblinchief

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2014, 05:29:57 PM »
3rd row with most SUVs is a special kind of hell. Very marginal utility. Also a MAJOR hassle getting kids buckled in unless they are old enough to buckle themselves. With 3 kids, I'd strongly consider staying with a 2 row vehicle or a minivan. You might need different car seats but you don't need 3 rows for only 3 kids.

KBecks2

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2014, 05:33:44 PM »
Minivans are bleeping awesome.  The sliding doors rock.  You will not have your littles bashing their doors into the cars next to you.  I drive an Odyssey.  Buy something used and enjoy.   We have taken a 2nd row seat out of our van and so two sit in the back, one sits behind the driver and there is a huge open space behind the passenger that can be used for "stuff" or when we go road tripping, a cooler.  The kids just scramble in and out so easily and when they were little I could climb in that spot and have tons of room to buckle everyone.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2014, 05:36:19 PM by KBecks2 »

Thegoblinchief

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2014, 05:42:36 PM »
Minivans are bleeping awesome.  The sliding doors rock.  You will not have your littles bashing their doors into the cars next to you.  I drive an Odyssey.  Buy something used and enjoy.   We have taken a 2nd row seat out of our van and so two sit in the back, one sits behind the driver and there is a huge open space behind the passenger that can be used for "stuff" or when we go road tripping, a cooler.  The kids just scramble in and out so easily and when they were little I could climb in that spot and have tons of room to buckle everyone.

Heh, we actually took the entire second row out of our Sienna. All 3 kids sit together on the back bench. Space in the middle is primary cargo. Rear cargo is only for long trips because the rear hatch doesn't open - but even if it did, the bike rack lives on it 99% of the time anyways.

MayDay

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2014, 06:49:08 PM »
Omg get a van. The giant suv's suck if you ever actually use the third row, which you'll have to with three. You'll have two carseats in the middle, so the only way for your third kid to get in the back will be to vault him over the back seat. Better hope he can buckle and unbuckle himself and never drops a toy/spills juice/barfs all over/has a meltdown and reduces to buckle. 

And if you use the third row all the time you'll have a tiny trunk. if you go on trips you will become one of those fools driving a huge sub with a giant roof rack on  top reducing the fuel economy by another 10 mph!

Seriously I don't think you can fit a double stroller in a highlander with the third row seat in use.

Just get a minivan. They rock.


iamadummy

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2014, 07:36:34 PM »
if you like the suv and don't want to go with the mini van, that is your choice.  either way as long as you are comfortable with either
one, you'll be happy.  soon MMM post will follow

TerriM

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2014, 08:53:19 PM »
You can find out if a car has been in an accident before you buy it.  I think the site is car fax that you need to run the vin #.

Only if they report it.  We're facing this problem now.  We found out half the car was repainted (badly) and the paint is peeling.

Yes.  I didn't notice it--I thought the manufacturer simply painted the bumper differently from the metal parts, but it didn't show up on the car fax, and the dealer (who no doubt knew) never said anything to my recollection.

A little miffed.

TerriM

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2014, 09:00:10 PM »
The tow truck argument goes under the safety falicy.  You aren't at a much higher risk of needing a tow, so you shouldn't spend a huge amount of money to avoid increasing that risk.  All cars can end up needing a tow, some, cough dodge cough, need them more often.

Exactly.  Is it worth $5-$6K?  Probably not.

bzzzt

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2014, 09:02:01 PM »
As a man who's wife HAD to have a 3rd row SUV after another friend bought a new Ford Explorer with it, it's pretty much useless. We bought a 2004 Trailblazer EXT because it was at the bottom of the depreciation curve and still only had 108k miles.

So far, we've both agreed that it's a pain to use the 3rd row seats and they stay folded because... our son is only 2 months old now and doesn't know what friends are yet to have any. That was the main argument for needing a 3rd row due to pregnancy brain. I've also heard "I figured there would be more room in here".

I see a minivan in our future, except "I don't want to be one of those minivan Moms". Oh really, you don't like it easy?   

milesdividendmd

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2014, 10:58:11 PM »
We love our mazda5.

Take it for a spin. It's dependable and peppy.

Thegoblinchief

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2014, 06:57:15 AM »
I don't understand the weird bias against minivans. Outside of the truly mini cars like the Mazda5 and other good hatches, they're one of the most practical form factors. Great for passengers AND cargo unless it's something messy like dirt or other materials that you'd want a pickup bed for.

If you want a hilarious pro-minivan take, search YouTube for the "swagger wagon" ad campaign Toyota did a few years back.

TerriM

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2014, 08:31:08 AM »
I see a minivan in our future, except "I don't want to be one of those minivan Moms". Oh really, you don't like it easy?

:) 

I don't get the bias against minivans either, but I see mine as an extension of me, not of motherhood.  I'm a bit of a reuser, so having a minivan has enabled me to pick up immediately a headboard for a bed, desk, rocking chair, and shelves.  These are things that will disappear in minutes, so there's no coming back with a rental van. We avoid delivery fees by taking furniture home ourselves, and I don't need to find a friend with a van to come with me to pick up stuff from Ikea.  I'm not driving around with my trunk open.  It fits bikes, it fits cargo, it fits lumber, it fits kids.  It fits my family with my parents.  A very versatile machine.

justajane

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2014, 10:19:28 AM »
I'm surprised by how few people are chiming in against the minivan, SUV, or the crossover (Mazda 5).
 
Two weeks before we had our third in May 2014 we bought a 2012 Ford Fusion. People thought we were crazy, but it is working just fine. Also, we already have a Kia Rondo with a third row, but it's unwieldy, and the gas mileage sucks. Really, don't buy a Mazda 5 or Kia Rondo to save on gas mileage. It doesn't get much better than a minivan.

I refused to buy a minivan not because I am too cool for that. I am decidedly uncool regardless of what car I drive, but minivans are just really expensive, even used. For us to have gotten a Honda or Toyota minivan for the $16,000 we paid for a nearly new Ford sedan (with only 20,000 miles, and that's the souped up version with leather seats and a backup camera), we would have had to buy a minivan with over 100,000 miles on it. The economics just didn't work out.

And the existing Rondo we had didn't thrill me, because it's blasted annoying to strap the kids in the third row. Plus they are smack dab against the back of the car, which didn't strike me as super safe if someone rear ended us.

The Fusion is the perfect compromise. We have two Dionos (suggested by Zsmom upthread) and a Britax Marathon rear facing for the baby. Despite what people say, you can fit three car seats across in a larger sedan). It's great, especially because my eldest is so close to the baby that he can pop that pacifier in anytime he is screaming :).

Greg

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2014, 10:09:50 AM »
Minivans are super handy.  Both as people and stuff movers, and often safer.  Many SUVs are based on truck chassis and don't meet the same safety standards as minivans.  Many SUVs also have higher roll-over accident rates, due to their ride height and resulting center of gravity among other things.

I have a VW "minivan" so it's not exactly like new ones, but still just as handy.  In my case it seats 7, 3 in back, 2 in the center and 2 up front. Or 2 and 4x8 materials.  You get the idea.

One thought; if you are looking to move people, look at what people who do that for a living use.  I see minivan taxis and airport shuttles all the time.  Can't say I've ever seen an SUV taxi.

APowers

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2014, 11:13:33 AM »
What I would really like in a car is a station wagon the size of a mid '90s Honda Accord wagon, only 30" longer with a third row of seats. 35+ MPG _and_ 8 people. But nobody makes a car like this.

crispy

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2014, 11:24:24 AM »
We have a Mazda5 and love it.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 04:41:05 PM by crispy »

Le Barbu

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2014, 12:09:39 PM »
I would buy a 2008 Odysse in the 100-150k range.

13owie

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2014, 03:05:28 PM »
For 3 kids you don't need 3 rows. We have 4 however and a Mazda 5 seats us 6 fine for when we all need to go somewhere together.  The rest of the time its a Vibe for 5 or less.

CheapskateWife

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2014, 03:16:03 PM »
DH hated the fact that I bought a minivan, and to top it all off, it was a Dodge Grand Caravan, the most generic of all the minivans ever.  Now that we have had it for 7 years, he loves it.  Dogs?  No problem!  Bikes & 4 kids? No problem!

Plus its a Dodge so we really didn't spend a whole lot on it, and its crazy easy to work on.  Parts are cheap too!

MayDay

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Re: Buying a car with third row seats???
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2014, 06:25:21 AM »
My sil has a journey and the way back seat is hell.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!