Author Topic: 3 Forums--MMM, Bogleheads, reddit Financial Independence  (Read 13293 times)

mikefixac

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3 Forums--MMM, Bogleheads, reddit Financial Independence
« on: March 27, 2013, 11:07:38 AM »
I've never been drawn to forums, but now I'm learning there's lots of good info. And I can post my own questions.

The three forums I've been looking at are MMM, Bogleheads and the reddit FI forums. Do others of you who read this forum, read the other forums mentioned and are there other forums that you read that are related to FIRE?

And what do you like about the MMM forum as opposed to the others and vice versa?

To be honest, I'm almost afraid to post because I feel like I'll come across as stupid. I would gather that those who post and read on these forums are of higher intelligence, and I am often struck by the thoughtfulness of the replies.

arebelspy

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Re: 3 Forums--MMM, Bogleheads, reddit Financial Independence
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2013, 11:32:52 AM »
I've never been drawn to forums, but now I'm learning there's lots of good info. And I can post my own questions.

The three forums I've been looking at are MMM, Bogleheads and the reddit FI forums. Do others of you who read this forum, read the other forums mentioned and are there other forums that you read that are related to FIRE?

And what do you like about the MMM forum as opposed to the others and vice versa?

To be honest, I'm almost afraid to post because I feel like I'll come across as stupid. I would gather that those who post and read on these forums are of higher intelligence, and I am often struck by the thoughtfulness of the replies.

Welcome!  I don't do reddit, but for FIRE I read MMM forums, early retirement extreme forums, and early-retirement.org

Bogleheads I read on occasion, but I consider that more of an investment forum than retirement forum.

There are a few other forums I read (like BiggerPockets for real estate), but those are the FIRE ones.

Don't worry about coming across stupid. Asking questions is the best way to learn.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with two kids.
If you want to know more about us, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

John74

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Re: 3 Forums--MMM, Bogleheads, reddit Financial Independence
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2013, 11:42:36 AM »


I don't do reddit, but for FIRE I read MMM forums, early retirement extreme forums, and early-retirement.org

Bogleheads I read on occasion, but I consider that more of an investment forum than retirement forum.



Same for me. MMM and early-retirement.org are my favorites by far. Bogleheads is a bit dry but a good resource when it comes to investments.

mikefixac

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Re: 3 Forums--MMM, Bogleheads, reddit Financial Independence
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2013, 05:39:41 PM »
Thanks guys. I bookmarked those forums you mentioned.

Rangifer

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Re: 3 Forums--MMM, Bogleheads, reddit Financial Independence
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2013, 07:41:31 PM »
I find myself reading bogleheads a lot more lately. They seem to be an older crowd who understand that it is okay to spend money on things that make you happy, whereas a lot of the reddits (especially /r/frugal) seem more like people trying to see who can live like the biggest hermit.

mm31

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Re: 3 Forums--MMM, Bogleheads, reddit Financial Independence
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2013, 10:27:33 PM »
I really like bogleheads, the advice is solid and I always learn something. Their wiki is also very good

swick

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Re: 3 Forums--MMM, Bogleheads, reddit Financial Independence
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2013, 10:34:48 PM »
Just wanted to chime in with a great big welcome! and my thoughts on the MMM forum. I lurked for a long time before posting, pretty much because I was afraid to look stupid too. The more I read though, the more I realize this is actually a really unique forum.

The people here are great - honest - willing to give you that face punch you know you need but don't want to give yourself. Also very willing to share their knowledge and experiences and help you grow and point you in the direction of older threads or new resources.

There are also lots of people on here with a great sense of humor and unique views. I came for the info, I have stayed for the people :)

arebelspy

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Re: 3 Forums--MMM, Bogleheads, reddit Financial Independence
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2013, 08:41:13 AM »
I agree, in general, with your assessment of all those places.  And, like you, I come for the motivation, rather than advice.

However:
MMM - if you are reading this - this is where your creation stands out from the rest. Inspire and give people hope. Excise any negativity like cancer. Help me and other keep going to their goal. There are those of us out there who need it.

There are those that need that.  There are also those that need realistic assessment and/or face punches that may be seen as "negative".

I think this forum has a fairly good balance of the two.

Swicks' comment, two above yours, is relevant to this, IMO.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with two kids.
If you want to know more about us, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

acanthurus

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Re: 3 Forums--MMM, Bogleheads, reddit Financial Independence
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2013, 09:14:29 AM »
There are those that need that.  There are also those that need realistic assessment and/or face punches that may be seen as "negative".

I completely agree that realistic assessment is key to all of this, and I quite like how MMM handles it in his blog entries and how it's handled for the most part on the forums. I don't find it to be negative at all, and it's a big part of the reason I like this place. I simply wanted to contrast what I liked about this place with the problems I see on other PF blogs/discussion groups. It doesn't take very long to find an r/PF thread that gets very contentious and unproductive and sometimes insulting. This site has avoided that quite well, but I'm starting to see signs in the forums that it's changing a little bit.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 09:16:04 AM by acanthurus »

Rangifer

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Re: 3 Forums--MMM, Bogleheads, reddit Financial Independence
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2013, 12:10:00 PM »
I find the reddits that involve money to be valuable as examples of what not to do. Things like "How do I get these debt collectors off my back", "I spent all weekend making homemade laundry detergent to save two dollars", and "I have too many student loans/credit card bills/etc, how do I eat on 20 bucks for the next month".

Bogleheads is like your well off uncle who keeps reminding you that you'll only be young once, so spend some of your money.

MMM is sort of unique, but has lately been trending towards chastising people for little things, who are otherwise doing well as far as saving (see the thread where the guy has most of his ducks in a row, but gets shit because he buys generic sodas because he enjoys soft drinks).
« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 12:17:19 PM by Rangifer »

mm31

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Re: 3 Forums--MMM, Bogleheads, reddit Financial Independence
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2013, 12:18:41 PM »
Bogleheads has a higher caliber poster IMO. They generally tend to have their shit together, and most of them have real money, and because of that the discussion tends towards questions that I find interesting. But that brings with it another problem - a lot of people there aren't into frugal lifestyles. They remind me of my rich uncle, who I would listen to for investment advice but whose lifestyle I find wasteful.

There are a lot more frugal people there than you're letting on. I also find that most of them are min-max people, which is what I'm closer to: maximize spending on what you're  interested in, minimize on the rest.  Save in-between.

BPA

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Re: 3 Forums--MMM, Bogleheads, reddit Financial Independence
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2013, 07:15:23 PM »
If you're Canadian, Bogleheads has a Canadian counterpart wiki: http://www.finiki.org/wiki/Getting_Started

...and a counterpart forum: http://www.financialwebring.org/forum/index.php

Thanks for the links, CJOttawa.  :)

Dee18

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Re: 3 Forums--MMM, Bogleheads, reddit Financial Independence
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2013, 08:02:09 PM »
I like MMM's content the best.  I also find his site much more visually appealing.  Both Bogleheads and early-retirement open with a page of lists, rather than engaging first paragraphs.

ivyhedge

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Re: 3 Forums--MMM, Bogleheads, reddit Financial Independence
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2013, 10:06:39 AM »

Quote
Bogleheads has a higher caliber poster IMO. They generally tend to have their shit together, and most of them have real money, and because of that the discussion tends towards questions that I find interesting. But that brings with it another problem - a lot of people there aren't into frugal lifestyles. They remind me of my rich uncle, who I would listen to for investment advice but whose lifestyle I find wasteful.


Ardent Bogleheads tend to have a very specific mindset about investing: namely, that index investing is (oftentimes) the only option for most investors, with any active manager outperformance completely based in luck or simply offal.*


For example, it's very difficult to convince many members that there wasn't a "lost decade". There were several posts over the last year which even set the stage for their arguments with the assumption that during negative market dislocations *no one* will do well. No one. Those of us who chimed in with strong, multi-year records as counterexamples (mostly dividend growth and REIT strategies whose cash flow situations saw few, or no, dividend cuts during the recession and were relatively easy - and inexpensive - to construct) were discounted as market timers, being "selective" with our data, and called out for being ill informed about the group's methods and ideology.


I do realize that, for most folks, investing is merely a part of their life, and so indexing might be a reasonable choice in certain circumstances. For me, this field is both a vocation and an avocation, so I tend to get riled when folks use absolutism to exclude viable alternatives. I'm especially likely to provide counterexamples to challenge name calling and false-identifying when I know that I do very well doing what I do.


That said...


I have met some great folks on Bogleheads. They are the ones who satisfy my bias by being open to a mix of investments suitable to differing needs, at different times in life.


As for spending on what folks enjoy, I find that some Bogleheads are very in touch with what makes them happy, instead of being wed solely to an amorphous process getting them there. If they have $1m-$2m available and want to travel, they do so. If they can buy a home with cash, they do so. And if they have wanted a Porsche for years and can afford it without jeopardizing their future, that's what they buy. While we save a ton and tend to waste little, my wife and I fit much more into this philosophy.


As always, YMMV... Have fun!


*Note: this is not always the response to every posting, but it does form a central tenet of Boglehead investment philosophy which often mitigates acceptance of other points of view.

jrhampt

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Re: 3 Forums--MMM, Bogleheads, reddit Financial Independence
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2013, 10:41:25 AM »
There are a lot more frugal people there than you're letting on. I also find that most of them are min-max people, which is what I'm closer to: maximize spending on what you're  interested in, minimize on the rest.  Save in-between.

Agreed.  There are a lot of frugal people on Bogleheads, but also a lot who are frugal in some ways so they don't have to be in others.  I really enjoy both that forum and this one. 

Nathan Drake

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Re: 3 Forums--MMM, Bogleheads, reddit Financial Independence
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2013, 03:52:46 PM »
For those saying that the Bogleheads Forum is only good for investing, I disagree.  They also have a Personal Finance (Not Investing) section and a Personal Consumer Issues section.  Each section is very good.  You get lots of helpful replies IMO.  And there are many frugal people there.  Yes, there are those that may not be so frugal who have an extremely high income and/or net worth.

Bogleheads are my favorite among the 3.

mikefixac

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Re: 3 Forums--MMM, Bogleheads, reddit Financial Independence
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2013, 10:11:49 PM »
 MMM has a lot of positivity going on - possibly too much bordering on cultish, but what the hell it's fun (so long as it doesn't get any more cultish. I've got my cost of living below the federal poverty line, but will have six figs on my W2 this year

Well, I must say, MMM has indeed changed the way I look at money. In a big way.

My wife compared to her other professional friends is considered frugal. But honestly, after learning what I've learned from MMM, she could get rid of 75% of her spending.

I never thought my life would go in the direction of learning about personal finance, but MMM, ERE and Bogleheads has lead me into lots of reading. I've just read Mr Bogle's book and it's fantastic. Now reading "The Birth of Plenty". Along with free books daily on my Kindle, there's never a shortage of good financial books to read.

I've never made more than $25K in my life, but now FI. With what I've learned, I've could have FIREd 10 years ago easily.

MMM shares an insight that is just plain common sense that we've either forgotten about or gotten lax. I've learned a hell a of lot from him, and for that I'll be always grateful.


Bigote

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Re: 3 Forums--MMM, Bogleheads, reddit Financial Independence
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2013, 11:57:45 PM »
Another shutout for Bogleheads and Early-Retirement.org.  I agree this place can get a bit cult-like at times, it stopped me from signing up for a time.    Still, it motivates a lot of folks, and that's great. 

NICE!

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Re: 3 Forums--MMM, Bogleheads, reddit Financial Independence
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2013, 02:35:38 AM »
I like reddit in many respects, but talking about money illustrates much of the reddit hive mind is insufferable. They'd rather complain about how much the system is stacked up against them while insisting that cable & iPhones are necessary than do what they can about it. I have many a complaint about macroeconomic policy issues, but when it comes to my own finances, it is valuable to focus on what I can do to change my own situation.  This isn't to say there isn't anything good there, it is just saying that the most MMM & ERE-type posts I lay down over there seem to get the most downvotes, vitriol and assumptions that I'm some silver-spoon dude.