Author Topic: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy  (Read 12144 times)

AltID

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29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« on: December 06, 2014, 12:52:55 PM »
Update 6/27/15 in case anyone cares: I improved my diet for testosterone (basically meaning much more fat) and started lifting weights. I referred myself to an endocrinologist since my PCP  wouldn't consider anything besides Viagra. After these changes, my testosterone tested at 303 (actually the biggest part of this change is because the first test was taken in the afternoon and testosterone is highest in the morning and that's when it's supposed to be tested). Sexual problems improved but not so much that I wouldn't pay pretty much whatever it takes to make myself normal. The endocrinologist I saw said I was fine and he wouldn't prescribe anything to me. So for the 3rd blood test I read up about how to make my testosterone as low as possible (ate very little fat for a week, drank a lot of alcohol and then the 24 hrs before the blood draw I ate next to nothing and stayed up all night). I tested at 121. The idea was to test at a level that I can find a doctor to prescribe Clomid, a pill that often works if (part of) the problem is with your brain sending the signal rather than your testicles being unable to produce testosterone. I have an appointment with a urologist on Tuesday and frankly at this point, if he just tells me I'm fine I'm ready to go to one of the "men's health" clinics that basically prescribe testosterone shots to anyone who wants them.

For what it's worth, the endocrinologist also did thyroid tests which came back normal. After my sabotaged 121 testosterone result they asked me to come in for a pituitary MRI which I don't plan to do.

If anyone has insight as to how to get a doctor to prescribe Clomid, it would be appreciated. The urologist has not been forwarded any medical records, so I can select which of the three test results he gets to see. I got the impression from the endocrinologist I saw was that in order for him to do anything I'd need to say I'm severely depressed and lack the energy to get out of bed. I'm fairly apathetic towards everything but certainly don't think I'd be diagnosed as clinically depressed and my energy level isn't terribly low.

OP: I'm someone who really puts off going to the doctor and I went this week because I've been having sexual problems, both in terms of desire and ability. The last time I started seeing someone, it ended when I failed to get it up, but I started noticing problems a few months before then (and now a few months have passed since then), so I don't think the problem is psychological. I'll just pretend like this isn't weird to talk about. It isn't that there's nothing going on. (When masturbating) I can usually get to 70-80%, but it is way more difficult to get there and often difficult to maintain.

"Normal" testosterone levels are a wide range, but the average for guys my age is somewhere in the 600s (measured in nanograms per deciliter). One source I read said the 5th percentile is at 388 (edit: Wikipedia also states this). Testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is usually done in significantly older men, but doctors commonly consider it when levels are below 350. I'm at 217. I've likely always been on the lower end, but I acknowledge that my low level was likely exacerbated by alcohol abuse. I quit drinking a couple months ago and I'm not worried about being able to stay off it.

Of the well supported things that you can do to improve levels naturally- diet, exercise and sleep- the only thing I haven't done is add serious weight training. I've only been doing cardio with a little bit of body weight exercises. Given that I need to double my level to be at the low end of normal, I don't see that happening naturally, but I will try adding weights.   

I don't yet know what my doctor will recommend. There are substantial risks and costs associated with TRT. On the cost side, I don't know what insurance will cover but I've heard the cash price of injections and monitoring is $400/ mo, and since you are likely to start producing even less naturally, you're on it for life. But while I'm no ladies man, a life without the possibility of dating and relationships sounds pretty bleak, and I feel like that's where I am right now. Of course the benefits of testosterone are not just sexual. They say low T can cause low ambition and self-esteem, and yeah, I'm there. Increased muscle and energy are a bonus. I can certainly afford it. I have ~$200k in savings (2/3 in retirement accounts), gross $63k and spend maybe $22k currently. ER isn't really a goal of mine. FI and ESR are, but it's not the most important thing. 

Of course I'm not just soliciting advice from an anonymous internet finance forum. I have been/ will be talking to my doctor, my dad and friends (one of whom is a doctor) about what I should do. If anyone here has gone on TRT, knows someone who has, or looked into it and decided against it, I'd like to know what you have to say.  I haven't talked to my doctor since getting the test results and I'm not scheduled to go back until mid January.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2015, 09:58:17 AM by AltID »

former player

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2014, 03:17:45 PM »
It sounds to me as though you have got good advice from Learning.  The only thing I would add relates to you saying you have been off alcohol for two months.  Firstly, big congratulations on that: it is a great thing that you have done for yourself as coming off alcohol aged 29 gives you an excellent chance of having avoided a lot of the health problems that come with excessive drinking.  The good news is that you may well find that the longer you are off alcohol the better your health and mood become, both sexually (the expression "brewer's droop" is well known in the UK) and otherwise (alcohol is a depressant).  So it could be worth taking your time and settling into your new alcohol free and healthy exercise regimen and firmly establishing your new physical, physiological and psychological normal before adding hormones from outside.

It could also be worth making sure that all the other possible causes for your health issues have been ruled out by your doctor before taking hormones - you want to be sure that the hormones are not masking some other medical cause which needs treating, or that there is a better medical treatment for you.

AltID

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2014, 04:00:37 PM »
You say you're afraid of a life without dating or romantic relationships.

I have good news for you: sexuality is not required for dating or romantic relationships.

Plenty of people form healthy and happy romantic relationships, and even get married, without being sexually attracted to each other (or to anybody), and without ever having sex. It's called asexuality. You may find this community helpful: http://asexuality.org

Since you attribute your sexual problems to biology, might I ask why you even want to experience sexuality? For most sexual people, I imagine it's because of biology that they want to have sex, but in your case -- since you wouldn't have that biological drive -- I can only speculate it's because of media portrayals, which have led you to believe that sexuality is a precondition to having a relationship. Luckily, you now know it's not, so maybe this will lead you to reconsider the entire project.

There's nothing wrong with being asexual. Changing that would be a bit like a gay person going through ex-gay therapy to become straight.

I'm aware of asexuality. My physical desire for sex is currently low. My mental desire, or 'desire for desire' for sex, is not. Just like you can't convert a gay person, I haven't been turned into an asexual. As an American (somewhat) anti-consumer and midwest atheist from a Christian family, I'd like to think I'm not too concerned with what society thinks.

frugaldrummer

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2014, 04:03:39 PM »
Ok, I know quite a bit about this, so a few things to consider:

First of all you need a workup to see WHY your testosterone levels are so low. Is your FSH elevated? (It should be high if testicular failure is the cause; FSH is a hormone from the brain to the gonads that stimulates testosterone production. If instead it is low, the problem could be a failure of the pituitary gland to put out a message to the testicles).

Second, get a thorough thyroid panel done. One of the most common causes of low testosterone in young men is hypothyroidism. If this is the case, treating the thyroid problem will fix the low testosterone.

Three, make sure that testosterone test is repeated, and is done before 10 a.m. it should always be measured in the morning.

Fourth, if you take Propecia for hair loss, STOP.

Fifth, if you truly have isolated testosterone deficiency, discuss other treatments like HCG injections or clomid treatment first. Testosterone replacement does carry a risk of suppressing sperm production. This is seldom an issue for a sixty year old, but a young guy who plans to have children may want to use one of these other methods first, as they don't affect sperm. Clomid is pretty cheap and easy to take, available as a generic pill.

Sixth, if you do need testosterone, use topical cream from a compounding pharmacy. Cream gives fewer peaks and valleys than shots, and compounded is way cheaper than Androgel unless you have fabulous insurance. (Compounded cream might be $20 - $30 a month.)

AltID

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2014, 04:07:24 PM »
Thanks for the suggestions, frugaldrummer, I'll be sure to discuss those things with my doctor.

To clarify, I'm in the early stages of researching this and I haven't discussed anything with my doctor since since getting the test results. Also, I'm working with a GP, not some low T clinic that just prescribes injections to every guy who comes in with a low test result.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 04:38:43 PM by AltID »

d3minimis

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2014, 04:28:51 PM »
Given the risks and the costs, before you get on the doctor-provided juice, definitely take another look at your diet and exercise.

Read and follow Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe, get a set of weights for your house, and buy a cow to stock your chest freezer full of steaks. Squat and deadlift regularly as the book discusses, and keep your protein and fats (including saturated) high.

I'm not a doctor but I would rather eat steak and lift before getting T shots to see how it faired. Good luck man.

ketchup

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2014, 04:38:01 PM »
I don't have any numbers, so treat this as pure anecdotal with a side of salt, but lifting (squats, deadlifts, overhead presses, etc) has had a tremendous positive impact on my perceived testosterone levels and related bedroom activities. Nothing was "wrong" per se beforehand, but it's definitely improved.  Diet helps too.

sol

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2014, 04:43:03 PM »
lifting (squats, deadlifts, overhead presses, etc) has had a tremendous positive impact on my perceived testosterone levels and related bedroom activities.

On a related note, if you're dead set on this course and your doctor won't prescribe what you're after, steroids are relatively cheap and easy to find on the internet.  It's the same stuff. 

You'd be taking your life into your own hands, though.  And as a side benefit, you can grow freakishly large muscles!

frugaldrummer

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2014, 04:49:53 PM »
NO!!!# steroids are NOT the same as bioidentical testosterone, and they can cause permanent sterility, liver damage, and all kinds of nasty stuff. Stick with testosterone which is the same as what your body makes.

Punchingat50

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2014, 04:54:09 PM »
Start heavy lifting and doing squat trusts. They will raise your testosterone naturally. I also do testosterone replacement (androgel doctor prescribed). It does make a difference TRUST ME.

Murse

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2014, 04:57:27 PM »
When I was 19 I got my testosterone tested because of similar "problems." I went into my medical record because what you are saying didn't sound right to me by my memory. Here were my results as a 19 year old- 296 ng/Dl, normal is listed as 175-781 (per my physicians lab.) Sounds to me that you are in the normal range. You say that your source says 388 is the 5th percentile, I think you should check your source. I am also in nursing school so I decided to pull out my lab book and look it up for you, 300-1000 ng/Dl is listed as normal here for ALL men except males 12-14 years old. In summary by my lab book you are low, by my physicians standards you are normal (all labs across the U.S. use slightly different values.) I think you are normal but you let this get in your head and are likely using Internet sources to scare the crap out of you. I got really upset when I saw I was on the low side of normal as well, I was 19 I thought I should of been on the high side. If you have any questions about my experience feel free to ask, our stories sounds very similar (mine was just earlier in life.)
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 05:17:47 PM by FutureNurse »

sol

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2014, 05:05:58 PM »
NO!!!# steroids are NOT the same as bioidentical testosterone, and they can cause permanent sterility, liver damage, and all kinds of nasty stuff. Stick with testosterone which is the same as what your body makes.

I'm sure there are people here who know more about steroids than I do, but even my rudimentary research has taught me that there are like six different major classes of drugs that people take in the bodybuilding community, some of which are identical to drugs that doctors prescribe for hormone deficiency.

Which isn't to say they can't cause medical problems if used incorrectly.  Just that the chemicals you can buy online from Mexico are identical to the chemicals your US doctor might give you.

Wow, I can't believe I sound like I'm actually advocating you purchase controlled substances from a foreign country.  I take it all back, please talk to your doctor and get a proper evaluation done of you think you have a medical problem, and then abandon the notion if your doctor says you don't.

Murse

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2014, 05:11:05 PM »
Side note, also in my lab book it says that alcoholism can cause decreased levels.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 05:13:28 PM by FutureNurse »

Kriegsspiel

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2014, 06:26:24 PM »
NO!!!# steroids are NOT the same as bioidentical testosterone, and they can cause permanent sterility, liver damage, and all kinds of nasty stuff. Stick with testosterone which is the same as what your body makes.

I'm sure there are people here who know more about steroids than I do, but even my rudimentary research has taught me that there are like six different major classes of drugs that people take in the bodybuilding community, some of which are identical to drugs that doctors prescribe for hormone deficiency.

Which isn't to say they can't cause medical problems if used incorrectly.  Just that the chemicals you can buy online from Mexico are identical to the chemicals your US doctor might give you.

Wow, I can't believe I sound like I'm actually advocating you purchase controlled substances from a foreign country.  I take it all back, please talk to your doctor and get a proper evaluation done of you think you have a medical problem, and then abandon the notion if your doctor says you don't.

frugaldrummer might be referring to 17-alpha alkylated steroids, like winstrol, which are harder on your liver, but they are taken orally. The various testosterone esters (which are the most basic anabolic steroid, which makes his post confusing) are probably what you'd want to use. I believe the longer lasting esters like enanthate are the ones that would have a short term spike once you inject. If you inject every day (prop), it would keep your hormone levels more even. But I could be making this all up.

AltID

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2014, 07:26:53 PM »
I won't be importing steroids from Mexico. Don't worry about me doing anything that isn't advised by my GP (or a specialist he refers me to).

When I was 19 I got my testosterone tested because of similar "problems." I went into my medical record because what you are saying didn't sound right to me by my memory. Here were my results as a 19 year old- 296 ng/Dl, normal is listed as 175-781 (per my physicians lab.) Sounds to me that you are in the normal range. You say that your source says 388 is the 5th percentile, I think you should check your source. I am also in nursing school so I decided to pull out my lab book and look it up for you, 300-1000 ng/Dl is listed as normal here for ALL men except males 12-14 years old. In summary by my lab book you are low, by my physicians standards you are normal (all labs across the U.S. use slightly different values.) I think you are normal but you let this get in your head and are likely using Internet sources to scare the crap out of you. I got really upset when I saw I was on the low side of normal as well, I was 19 I thought I should of been on the high side. If you have any questions about my experience feel free to ask, our stories sounds very similar (mine was just earlier in life.)

Different places list different levels as "normal." I've seen some with the 300-1000 like you said, and the lab that gave me my results listed something very close to the 175-781 that you stated.  What seems more consistent is that treatment is commonly recommended at levels below 350.  The source saying that 388 is the 5th percentile for 25-29 yo is here (bottom chart): http://www.menshormonalhealth.com/normal-testosterone-levels.html

edit: 'Low testosterone' on wikipedia redirects to 'hypogonadism' and states "A twenty-seven-year-old male with a testosterone level of 380 ng/dL would be in the "normal" range, but would likely have low testosterone to blame if he experiences some or many of the above symptoms. This score would put him in the bottom 5% of his age-group, but would be a more common score for a man who is 80+ years old."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypogonadism#Men
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 10:18:26 PM by AltID »

Abe

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2014, 07:27:17 PM »
Good job on stopping the alcohol. If you were drinking a significant amount every day, that is almost certainly a major cause of your low testosterone level. Otherwise I echo Frugaldrummer's comments on further work-up needed. Isolated low testosterone that is clinically significant is rare, more often there are other underlying causes (alcohol consumption being a major one) that should be ruled out. In general, testosterone supplementation is often not effective in isolation because of underlying conditions, and the level is tightly regulated. Thus your body may stop producing its own testosterone in response to supplementation. This leads to a cycle of increasing doses of testosterone with the risk of gonadal dysfunction, the most significant of which is decreased sperm production. I'd advise referral to an endocrinologist if your primary physician thinks the low testosterone level is significant.

kscubz

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2014, 08:02:26 PM »
Well, in your post you associated a hormone phenomenon with a lack of dating success, and those things are just not related. Maybe societal messages have affected you more than you realised. Or maybe not, but I wouldn't expect hormones to change your dating life.

I assume you are a female and maybe what you say has some relevance for females, although i doubt it, but it simply not true for men.

Males by default must pursue females, they must be aggressive in order to be successful, sitting and waiting for females to come to them is a fruitless strategy (i've tried it). Testosterone is a major contributor to the male desire to pursue females. It is absolutely 100% related to success in dating.


also, good advice provided by "learning"

Do your research before you make this decision

You would be wise to try everything you can to naturally raise your testosterone before going the pharmaceutical route. Diet, exercise, sleep, sun exposure, supplementation with zinc, d3, etc. if you are lacking.

Good luck, theres a lot of false information out there.

M2 pilot

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2014, 09:05:54 PM »
I don't mean in any way to suggest that your problem isn't significant or meaningful or important.
But, whoever heard of "low T' before Pharma started pushing their expensive treatments?

AltID

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2014, 09:12:19 PM »
Can you describe what symptoms you are associating with the low T?

edit: Primarily sexual, others are more nebulous.

How much physical activity do you do per week?

I got serious about diet and exercise 5 weeks ago. I've been following the slow carb diet- all meat, beans a vegetables except for one meal a week where anything goes. Until the last few days, my diet was low fat, but now that I heard about my low T and read that higher fat is ideal, I started having bacon and eggs for breakfast and added almonds. I've been eating around 1,800-2,000 calories a day and since a lot of those calories come from beans, I'm never hungry. For exercise, I have a spinner bike that I've been using ~90 min/ day and jogging some days when the weather is nicer. One day I jogged 6 miles without walking, so I'm in decent cardiovascular shape. I plan to join a gym and start with weights next week.

Any depression or anxiety history?
I don't think I've ever been in a state where I'd be diagnosed as clinically depressed, but for the alcohol abuse to be there (the majority of it being alone at home), I'd have to acknowledge there may be something there.

Any idea what your BMI is?
Taking my weight first thing in the morning, when I started this diet and exercise regimen 5 weeks ago I was 190, a BMI of 26.5. This morning I was 180, a BMI of 25.1. I don't have a lot of muscle tone and even when I was a skinny 16 year old, 155 lb cross country runner at the same height, I still had a gut. FWIW I was an overweight child and I speculate that severely restricting calories when I was 12-13 may have had an impact on my development. (My dad seems to have significantly more muscle than me and he's never lifted weights in his life).

How much alcohol were you consuming on a weekly basis?
The drinking got out of hand pretty much as soon as I turned 21, but varied a lot. At times I'd only be drinking maybe 8 standard drinks once a week with friends. Other times I'd go a month or two where I'd drink pretty much as much as I could without being too hungover for work.

Have you been trying to lose weight or reduced your calories prior to this event?
I started noticing sexual problems 6-7 months ago. At the time I was both trying to lose weight (restricting calories and doing cardio) but also drinking maybe 5 shots a night. Then I stopped the diet and exercise. Yeah, I know, not the best response.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 02:26:20 PM by AltID »

bluecheeze

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2014, 11:17:52 PM »
The was a good article on naturally increasing T levels on The Art of Manliness blog.  I would suggest straightening up diet and exercise (full body workouts) for at least 6 months before spending the $$$ to go on anything.  You would be surpised how much a good gym session gets your libido up.  If after a solid half of a year your levels are still low then consider replacement therapy only with proper diet and exercise.  Healthy fats are your friend -> Ketosis boosts T levels like crazy (at least in my case)

Bristlingblackmustache

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2014, 10:01:51 PM »
I was on this for about a year-Testosterone cypionate its a long-acting version of the parent hormone testosterone with an attached cypionate ester to delay its release into the body. 200mg/ml injections every two weeks. N=1 I know. Zero negative side affects. Gained some muscle lost some fat. Dramatically increased libido. Not expensive, $40 or so per month. Stopped cold turkey and took about six weeks for libido to return. This is due to the cessation of natural production while on replacement therapy. You are a grown man do the research and do what you want. From everything I've read it's perfectly safe when used sensibly as long as you are not female or a pre pubescent male.

GuitarStv

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2014, 06:08:39 AM »
You say you're afraid of a life without dating or romantic relationships.

I have good news for you: sexuality is not required for dating or romantic relationships.

Plenty of people form healthy and happy romantic relationships, and even get married, without being sexually attracted to each other (or to anybody), and without ever having sex. It's called asexuality. You may find this community helpful: http://asexuality.org

Since you attribute your sexual problems to biology, might I ask why you even want to experience sexuality? For most sexual people, I imagine it's because of biology that they want to have sex, but in your case -- since you wouldn't have that biological drive -- I can only speculate it's because of media portrayals, which have led you to believe that sexuality is a precondition to having a relationship. Luckily, you now know it's not, so maybe this will lead you to reconsider the entire project.

There's nothing wrong with being asexual. Changing that would be a bit like a gay person going through ex-gay therapy to become straight.

To most people, romance without sex is a bit like drinking dealcoholized beer.  Intimacy and sex go hand in hand, and without the physical contact . . . there's just something fundamentally vital missing.  The last that I'd read, somewhere around 1% of people are asexual.  There's nothing wrong with feeling that way, but at the very least it's going to radically reduce your dating pool.

iwasjustwondering

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2014, 08:46:56 AM »
Well, in your post you associated a hormone phenomenon with a lack of dating success, and those things are just not related. Maybe societal messages have affected you more than you realised. Or maybe not, but I wouldn't expect hormones to change your dating life.

Wait, what?  Many/most women actually enjoy sex and consider it an important part of their lives and romantic relationships.  This is not a societal phenomenon. 

Thegoblinchief

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2014, 11:18:46 AM »
First off, I'd give your body a lot longer than 5 weeks of natural changes in diet/exercise before intervening chemically. I'd also consider stopping masturbation. Porn/no porn while doing it, it's only going to desensitize you when with a woman. Constant fapping can also dampen testosterone production.

For a slightly less weird alternative lifestyle than asexuality, look at Karezza (sex, but done very slowly, and never to the point of orgasm, also a heavy emphasis on non-sexual bonding like massage, cuddling, etc). My wife and I have experimented with this for a while now and it's pretty amazing stuff. Resources include r/Karezza and the book 'Cupid's Poisoned Arrow'.

YoungInvestor

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2014, 04:12:31 PM »
You clearly want it, talk to a doctor and don't worry about the cost if it is appropriate for your condition and you are fine with what the doctor tells you the side effects can be.

If some people take on 1000$+ vet bills, that seems like a no-brainer to me.

tracylayton

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2014, 04:27:37 PM »
My ex-husband was getting testosterone injections when we first started dating Good luck!

AltID

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2015, 08:36:48 AM »
Update 6/27/15 in case anyone cares: I improved my diet for testosterone (basically meaning much more fat) and started lifting weights. I referred myself to an endocrinologist since my PCP wouldn't consider anything besides Viagra. After these changes, my testosterone tested at 303 (actually the biggest part of this change is because the first test was taken in the afternoon and testosterone is highest in the morning). Sexual problems improved but not so much that I wouldn't pay pretty much whatever it takes to make myself normal. The endocrinologist I saw said I was fine and he wouldn't prescribe anything to me. So for 3rd blood test I read up about how to make my testosterone as low as possible (ate very little fat for a week, drank a lot of alcohol and then the 24 hrs before the blood draw I ate next to nothing and stayed up all night). I tested at 121. The idea was to test at a level that I can find a doctor to prescribe Clomid, a pill that often works if (part of) the problem is with your brain sending the signal rather than your testicles being unable to produce testosterone. I have an appointment with a urologist on Tuesday and frankly at this point, if he just tells me I'm fine I'm ready to go to one of the "men's health" clinics that basically prescribe testosterone shots to anyone who wants them.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2015, 08:46:10 AM by AltID »

Murse

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2015, 09:38:35 AM »
Update 6/27/15 in case anyone cares: I improved my diet for testosterone (basically meaning much more fat) and started lifting weights. I referred myself to an endocrinologist since my PCP wouldn't consider anything besides Viagra. After these changes, my testosterone tested at 303 (actually the biggest part of this change is because the first test was taken in the afternoon and testosterone is highest in the morning). Sexual problems improved but not so much that I wouldn't pay pretty much whatever it takes to make myself normal. The endocrinologist I saw said I was fine and he wouldn't prescribe anything to me. So for 3rd blood test I read up about how to make my testosterone as low as possible (ate very little fat for a week, drank a lot of alcohol and then the 24 hrs before the blood draw I ate next to nothing and stayed up all night). I tested at 121. The idea was to test at a level that I can find a doctor to prescribe Clomid, a pill that often works if (part of) the problem is with your brain sending the signal rather than your testicles being unable to produce testosterone. I have an appointment with a urologist on Tuesday and frankly at this point, if he just tells me I'm fine I'm ready to go to one of the "men's health" clinics that basically prescribe testosterone shots to anyone who wants them.
So let me get this straight, you first got your testosterone levels up with natural remedies, but the doctors wouldn't give you what you wanted because your hormones looked fine. Now you intentionally crashed your hormone levels so that you look sick to get what you want? Don't you think these professionals know what they are doing, and they believe that the risks outweigh the benefits?

Side note-crashing your testosterone is not just a number that does nothing. It can have REAL, lasting side effects.

If you are watching porn, masturbating or taking any kind of medication (including herbs,) I would strongly urge you to reconsider what you are doing. In America our pharmaceutical industry is strong and can advertise straight to the consumer. Porn and masturbation can cause addiction and has ruined many marriages/sex lives. Medications can crash libido's, and can also make it impossible to get an erection, antidepressants are specifically known for this, but others can cause it as well. If you are on any medications that can cause Sexual side effects, I would recommend you talk with your care provider about how to safely get off of the medication.

GuitarStv

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2015, 09:59:12 AM »
If your hormone levels became normal and your bedroom issues remained, your sexual problems are not hormonal.  Why do you think hormones would cure them?

AltID

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2015, 10:03:10 AM »
If your hormone levels became normal and your bedroom issues remained, your sexual problems are not hormonal.  Why do you think hormones would cure them?

There's a bit a variability, but average for my age is mid 600s. 303 is not is normal. 388 is 5th percentile. 350 is the level in older men below which treatment is commonly considered. In younger men men that level can be higher.

Testosterone is supposed to be tested in the morning when it is highest. Variability goes down with age, but in your 20s is can be as much as 30% lower by late afternoon vs first thing in the morning. My first test at 217 was taken at 2pm and the 2nd test at 303 was taken at 7:30am, so that is likely a major factor between the two.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2015, 10:37:43 AM by AltID »

Dicey

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Re: 29, Considering Testosterone Replacement Therapy
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2015, 10:06:56 AM »
I'll just pretend like this isn't weird to talk about.
I love your humor in this situation! I think it's essential to listen to your gut. It's completely possible to test in the "normal" range for a medical condition and still not feel quite right. If your own personal normal was originally significantly higher, but then fell to a lower number (still in the normal range), the difference you'd feel would be legitimate. I'm think I'm okay with skewing the results in order to get a higher level of medical attention. The fact that you could do so relatively easily might indicate a problem as well. When you get to a specialist, you might consider sharing the efforts you went to to get there.

I can't close without voicing concern about your drinking. This is as good a time as any to take a good look at your relationship with alcohol. It could be playing a bigger role in the problem than you realize. I'm not going to go so far as to suggest alcoholism, but a drop-in visit or two to an AA meeting might prove enlightening in a "what could happen to me if I don't get a grip on my drinking" sort of way.

This is a most interesting thread here on MMM. Please do keep us posted as to your progress.