2017 Subaru Outback vs 2012 Toyota Prius

[LibStache]

I have a 2017 Subaru Outback Limited with 88k miles on it and $16,000 left to pay at 1.99%.  I've considered selling the car (can get $20k for it) and buying an immaculate 2012 Toyota Prius Two with 98k miles for $11,000, single owner, who is selling it himself.  I have two small children and a 55 mile round-trip commute every day.  I'm a little concerned about giving up the space and all the bells and whistles that the outback has for the smaller, older, higher mileage, yet much more fuel efficient Prius.  The obvious appeal of the prius is that it gets excellent gas mileage and seems to be cheaper to maintain, but it is 5 years older and the base model.  What would you do? Thanks!

[KYFIRE]

What else do you do with the Outback?  I think they're two different vehicles and while an Outback isn't "needed" for everything it would be better suited depending on your what else you typically do.

[LibStache]

Basically a lot of driving and hauling kids, strollers, bikes, groceries, etc.  We do have the occasional fishing trip to the beach, or camping.  My husband really buys into the AWD safety myth, and thinks the Outback would be safer to have our children in, but where we live, we do not get a lot of snow in the winter and we're much more likely to deal with rain (or ice in winter). For me, I think the hardest part of giving up the outback is that because it is the limited model, it has every creature comfort I could ever want and lots of space, (which I know is very anti-mustachian!) but it has just "okay" gas mileage (28-30 mpg). We do live in a rural area, so a lot of driving!

[KYFIRE]

Some might judge you on it but I won't when it comes to having nice things (though I wouldn't blindly pay for them).  There's a few that now I've had it'd be hard pressed for me to not really want them.

While a lot of the AWD is a bit hyped (and I actually have 2 AWD vehicles) it does have some safety advantages.  Are they worth the extra money?  Maybe no.  Especially at the cost of fuel economy and maintenance/repairs.

I think that the Outback will be nicer and roomier than the Prius where the Prius would be $4k in your pocket and you'll need less of it to maintain it.  For space you could use some of that money for a nice roof mounted box for when you have to have the extra cargo. 

Only looking at money, excluding a catastrophic mechanical failure on the Prius, you'd never make out better in the Outback.  So unfortunately if money is the only factor, go Prius.  If you feel that the annual expense/environmental impact of gas / insurance / maintenance is worth the comfort and niceties of the Outback, if it's not really hurting any long term goals, then it's your money and I think do what will make you happiest.

[Flat9MKE]

I'm not sure the Prius is a "family friendly" car.  The Outback seems to be better for your current life which includes a lot of hauling kids/gear/etc.

What kind of car does your husband have?  If he has a smaller, fuel efficient car, perhaps you should use that for your commute.

[LibStache]

He has a 2008 Honda Element which is awkward when getting kids in and out because the back seat is so far back from the doors and it has terrible gas mileage, but it’s paid off. I really wish we could sell that to buy the Prius but I’m not sure he’d go for that.

[Rosy]

The Subaru works great as your family car so why trade down to an older, less spacious, considerably less useful for any sort of outing with the kids or camping unless you desperately need the money you might save.
You have a 55-mile trip daily and know those bells and whistles give you pleasure every day - so absolutely hold on to what you already have and enjoy it.

I'm all for optimizing and if you happen to be in a financial pinch I'd bite the bullet and do whatever is necessary to lower costs and expenses.
I get why DH doesn't want to sell a paid-off car, but nope, I wouldn't give up my Subaru unless I had a real good reason to do so.

[slappy]

The Subaru works great as your family car so why trade down to an older, less spacious, considerably less useful for any sort of outing with the kids or camping unless you desperately need the money you might save.
You have a 55-mile trip daily and know those bells and whistles give you pleasure every day - so absolutely hold on to what you already have and enjoy it.

I'm all for optimizing and if you happen to be in a financial pinch I'd bite the bullet and do whatever is necessary to lower costs and expenses.
I get why DH doesn't want to sell a paid-off car, but nope, I wouldn't give up my Subaru unless I had a real good reason to do so.

Isn't owing $16k on the Subaru "a real good reason to do so"? Is that what people mean when they talk about the forum getting soft?

I have an Outback, without the bells and whistles, and I have three kids. I will admit that it's pretty nice to be able to put the stroller in the back, but other than that, I don't see why the prius couldn't work. I always thought the trunk area of a Prius was pretty spacious, but maybe I'm mistaken there. How old are your kids? Could you use the Element for the trips that require extra gear, like camping, etc?

[Greystache]

What is your commute like? If it is cruising down the highway at 65 mph, the Prius will not give you the mileage savings you are hoping for. If on the other hand, you are in heavy traffic with lots of starting and stopping, the Prius could offer a significant improvement in mileage.

[Scandium]

The Subaru works great as your family car so why trade down to an older, less spacious, considerably less useful for any sort of outing with the kids or camping unless you desperately need the money you might save.
You have a 55-mile trip daily and know those bells and whistles give you pleasure every day - so absolutely hold on to what you already have and enjoy it.

I'm all for optimizing and if you happen to be in a financial pinch I'd bite the bullet and do whatever is necessary to lower costs and expenses.
I get why DH doesn't want to sell a paid-off car, but nope, I wouldn't give up my Subaru unless I had a real good reason to do so.

Isn't owing $16k on the Subaru "a real good reason to do so"? Is that what people mean when they talk about the forum getting soft?

I have an Outback, without the bells and whistles, and I have three kids. I will admit that it's pretty nice to be able to put the stroller in the back, but other than that, I don't see why the prius couldn't work. I always thought the trunk area of a Prius was pretty spacious, but maybe I'm mistaken there. How old are your kids? Could you use the Element for the trips that require extra gear, like camping, etc?

I own a prius (2013 i think), and used to own an outback (2008). The trunk of the prius is decent, but not great. Especially with the slope of the window it can be difficult to fit large rectangular items there, like a stroller on it's side, or boxes (or a dog crate). Large (ish), flat things work fine. The outback has way, way more room. And OP has a newer design than mine was, I think it got even bigger/taller. Now, whether that space is "worth the cost" to keep a larger, inefficient car I don't know. There are also some transactional costs to changing vehicles. When I've done the math the small savings in gas usually it's worth it to change cars just for that reason, only when evaluating vehicles you are changing anyway. But I always buy cash so haven't considered loan costs, and I drive less than op.

As for the question, it does seem a bit non-optimal to have two larger, less efficient cars. We have two kids, and haul larger tings occasionally; like lumber, furniture, camping stuff, grandparents (from out of country so they don't have a car). So we have a prius for around town driving and my commute, and honda pilot for larger items, fully loaded beach/camping trips and third row seats for guests. It works pretty well for our use. And both cars of course bought used 3-4 years old, so didn't cost that much, minimal maintenance, and should last a looong time.

Unfortunately, IMO the best option is to switch your husband's car for a prius! :D (Don't tell him I said that)
I remember testing an Element, and didn't care for it. I has surprisingly little space, goofy layout, and really not efficient or optimal in any way (from a hyperrational, engineer perspective at least.) no offense.. 

edit: also can you really get $20k for the outback?? I sold one with 100k miles, and got $6k I think! Though it was older than yours
and bought a prius with 30k miles for $14k..

[ChpBstrd]

According to Edmunds Total Cost to Own calculator, a 2017 Outback limited in my zip code can be expected to consume $41,275 of your wealth in the next 5 years.

https://www.edmunds.com/tco.html

Their calculator only goes back to 2015. A 2015 Prius Four would consume $31,548 of your wealth in the same amount of time.

To get a sense of what the 2012 would cost, I compared the 2015 to the 2016. The 2016's cost was $34,593 over the same time, so about $3k more per 5 years to have a one year newer model. The cost curve will flatten out as we go back in time, so let's conservatively say it's $2250 per year of age. This would put the 2012 model (2250*3=) $6,750 less than the 2015 model, for an estimated 5 year cost of ownership of (31548-6750=) $24,798.

I estimate the difference between owning the Outback SUV vs. the Prius for five years is (41275-24798=) $16,477.

Note that the blue book private party value for a 2012 Prius in good condition, per kbb.com, is $8,355, not 11k. Similarly, the private party value of your Outback limited is $15,647, not 20k. These numbers would be factored into the Edmunds numbers, but you might need to make manual adjustments if your transaction prices far exceed these numbers. If you can sell the Outback in today's used car frenzy for 20k, you should do so ASAP before the frenzy ends, but the Prius saves so much more money you come out waaaaay ahead even if you overpay for it by a couple thousand dollars.

My vote is for the Prius. I would not pay (16477/5=) $3,295 every year for the option to haul around something that would fit in an Outback but not in a Prius, plus the various luxuries of the Outback.

[TrMama]

I wouldn't trade a newer car for an older one unless I was pretty hard up for money. With kids and a long rural drive I'd value reliability pretty strongly. I'm also biased because I also have a 2017 Outback with all the bells and whistles and I love it. When we were car shopping we didn't even consider the Prius because is a completely different car from the mid-size SUV/wagon we were looking for.

I agree that it does make sense to swap the Element for the Prius. Good luck convincing your husband :-)

[Scandium]

According to Edmunds Total Cost to Own calculator, a 2017 Outback limited in my zip code can be expected to consume $41,275 of your wealth in the next 5 years.

https://www.edmunds.com/tco.html

Their calculator only goes back to 2015. A 2015 Prius Four would consume $31,548 of your wealth in the same amount of time.

To get a sense of what the 2012 would cost, I compared the 2015 to the 2016. The 2016's cost was $34,593 over the same time, so about $3k more per 5 years to have a one year newer model. The cost curve will flatten out as we go back in time, so let's conservatively say it's $2250 per year of age. This would put the 2012 model (2250*3=) $6,750 less than the 2015 model, for an estimated 5 year cost of ownership of (31548-6750=) $24,798.

I estimate the difference between owning the Outback SUV vs. the Prius for five years is (41275-24798=) $16,477.

Note that the blue book private party value for a 2012 Prius in good condition, per kbb.com, is $8,355, not 11k. Similarly, the private party value of your Outback limited is $15,647, not 20k. These numbers would be factored into the Edmunds numbers, but you might need to make manual adjustments if your transaction prices far exceed these numbers. If you can sell the Outback in today's used car frenzy for 20k, you should do so ASAP before the frenzy ends, but the Prius saves so much more money you come out waaaaay ahead even if you overpay for it by a couple thousand dollars.

My vote is for the Prius. I would not pay (16477/5=) $3,295 every year for the option to haul around something that would fit in an Outback but not in a Prius, plus the various luxuries of the Outback.

That calculator is kind of nuts. Some of the numbers make sense, others not so much. I put in my 2016 pilot. First of it does $5k in financing, which of course mmm'ers won't do.

Then in the next 5 years, $7 k in maintenance?? How? I've only done a few oil changes, not $1800 per year. And that's in addition to $3400 in "repairs", supposedly.

And $4400 in insurance? I pay less than that for two cars!

I don't quite know what $2200 in taxes is.. Edit; oh it's sales tax. Fair enough

Depreciation and fuel are sadly probably correct, though we drive half their assumed distance.

[ChpBstrd]

According to Edmunds Total Cost to Own calculator, a 2017 Outback limited in my zip code can be expected to consume $41,275 of your wealth in the next 5 years.

https://www.edmunds.com/tco.html

Their calculator only goes back to 2015. A 2015 Prius Four would consume $31,548 of your wealth in the same amount of time.

To get a sense of what the 2012 would cost, I compared the 2015 to the 2016. The 2016's cost was $34,593 over the same time, so about $3k more per 5 years to have a one year newer model. The cost curve will flatten out as we go back in time, so let's conservatively say it's $2250 per year of age. This would put the 2012 model (2250*3=) $6,750 less than the 2015 model, for an estimated 5 year cost of ownership of (31548-6750=) $24,798.

I estimate the difference between owning the Outback SUV vs. the Prius for five years is (41275-24798=) $16,477.

Note that the blue book private party value for a 2012 Prius in good condition, per kbb.com, is $8,355, not 11k. Similarly, the private party value of your Outback limited is $15,647, not 20k. These numbers would be factored into the Edmunds numbers, but you might need to make manual adjustments if your transaction prices far exceed these numbers. If you can sell the Outback in today's used car frenzy for 20k, you should do so ASAP before the frenzy ends, but the Prius saves so much more money you come out waaaaay ahead even if you overpay for it by a couple thousand dollars.

My vote is for the Prius. I would not pay (16477/5=) $3,295 every year for the option to haul around something that would fit in an Outback but not in a Prius, plus the various luxuries of the Outback.

That calculator is kind of nuts. Some of the numbers make sense, others not so much. I put in my 2016 pilot. First of it does $5k in financing, which of course mmm'ers won't do.

Then in the next 5 years, $7 k in maintenance?? How? I've only done a few oil changes, not $1800 per year. And that's in addition to $3400 in "repairs", supposedly.

And $4400 in insurance? I pay less than that for two cars!

I don't quite know what $2200 in taxes is.. Edit; oh it's sales tax. Fair enough

Depreciation and fuel are sadly probably correct, though we drive half their assumed distance.

I used to think I could remove the financing portion from the cost because I pay for my cars in cash. However, then I realized that tying up thousands of dollars in a piece of equipment ties up capital, and thus has an opportunity cost. The opportunity cost is what those thousands of dollars would have earned if invested. Presumably this is what you'd do with the $ if you didn't have to allocate it to a car.

Can you really get full coverage on a large SUV for less than $4400 for 5 years ($880/year)?

[Scandium]

According to Edmunds Total Cost to Own calculator, a 2017 Outback limited in my zip code can be expected to consume $41,275 of your wealth in the next 5 years.

https://www.edmunds.com/tco.html

Their calculator only goes back to 2015. A 2015 Prius Four would consume $31,548 of your wealth in the same amount of time.

To get a sense of what the 2012 would cost, I compared the 2015 to the 2016. The 2016's cost was $34,593 over the same time, so about $3k more per 5 years to have a one year newer model. The cost curve will flatten out as we go back in time, so let's conservatively say it's $2250 per year of age. This would put the 2012 model (2250*3=) $6,750 less than the 2015 model, for an estimated 5 year cost of ownership of (31548-6750=) $24,798.

I estimate the difference between owning the Outback SUV vs. the Prius for five years is (41275-24798=) $16,477.

Note that the blue book private party value for a 2012 Prius in good condition, per kbb.com, is $8,355, not 11k. Similarly, the private party value of your Outback limited is $15,647, not 20k. These numbers would be factored into the Edmunds numbers, but you might need to make manual adjustments if your transaction prices far exceed these numbers. If you can sell the Outback in today's used car frenzy for 20k, you should do so ASAP before the frenzy ends, but the Prius saves so much more money you come out waaaaay ahead even if you overpay for it by a couple thousand dollars.

My vote is for the Prius. I would not pay (16477/5=) $3,295 every year for the option to haul around something that would fit in an Outback but not in a Prius, plus the various luxuries of the Outback.

That calculator is kind of nuts. Some of the numbers make sense, others not so much. I put in my 2016 pilot. First of it does $5k in financing, which of course mmm'ers won't do.

Then in the next 5 years, $7 k in maintenance?? How? I've only done a few oil changes, not $1800 per year. And that's in addition to $3400 in "repairs", supposedly.

And $4400 in insurance? I pay less than that for two cars!

I don't quite know what $2200 in taxes is.. Edit; oh it's sales tax. Fair enough

Depreciation and fuel are sadly probably correct, though we drive half their assumed distance.

I used to think I could remove the financing portion from the cost because I pay for my cars in cash. However, then I realized that tying up thousands of dollars in a piece of equipment ties up capital, and thus has an opportunity cost. The opportunity cost is what those thousands of dollars would have earned if invested. Presumably this is what you'd do with the $ if you didn't have to allocate it to a car.

Can you really get full coverage on a large SUV for less than $4400 for 5 years ($880/year)?

Fair point, that is a issue.

I just checked, and just recently switching to progressive my premium is $546 per year for our two cars. That's after geico had raised it to over $900. Either way less than $880 for ONE car.

[LibStache]

According to Edmunds Total Cost to Own calculator, a 2017 Outback limited in my zip code can be expected to consume $41,275 of your wealth in the next 5 years.

https://www.edmunds.com/tco.html

Their calculator only goes back to 2015. A 2015 Prius Four would consume $31,548 of your wealth in the same amount of time.

To get a sense of what the 2012 would cost, I compared the 2015 to the 2016. The 2016's cost was $34,593 over the same time, so about $3k more per 5 years to have a one year newer model. The cost curve will flatten out as we go back in time, so let's conservatively say it's $2250 per year of age. This would put the 2012 model (2250*3=) $6,750 less than the 2015 model, for an estimated 5 year cost of ownership of (31548-6750=) $24,798.

I estimate the difference between owning the Outback SUV vs. the Prius for five years is (41275-24798=) $16,477.

Note that the blue book private party value for a 2012 Prius in good condition, per kbb.com, is $8,355, not 11k. Similarly, the private party value of your Outback limited is $15,647, not 20k. These numbers would be factored into the Edmunds numbers, but you might need to make manual adjustments if your transaction prices far exceed these numbers. If you can sell the Outback in today's used car frenzy for 20k, you should do so ASAP before the frenzy ends, but the Prius saves so much more money you come out waaaaay ahead even if you overpay for it by a couple thousand dollars.

My vote is for the Prius. I would not pay (16477/5=) $3,295 every year for the option to haul around something that would fit in an Outback but not in a Prius, plus the various luxuries of the Outback.

Wow! Thank you so much for taking the time to post this. That really puts things into perspective. Amazingly, my exact car with the same mileage is selling around $21-22k, at least in this area, not sure if prices fluctuate around the country. Which is pretty amazing considering I bought it used for $23k in 2018. I also agree with you that the ability to haul more stuff around is not worth $3295 per year. Thanks again!

[LibStache]

The Subaru works great as your family car so why trade down to an older, less spacious, considerably less useful for any sort of outing with the kids or camping unless you desperately need the money you might save.
You have a 55-mile trip daily and know those bells and whistles give you pleasure every day - so absolutely hold on to what you already have and enjoy it.

I'm all for optimizing and if you happen to be in a financial pinch I'd bite the bullet and do whatever is necessary to lower costs and expenses.
I get why DH doesn't want to sell a paid-off car, but nope, I wouldn't give up my Subaru unless I had a real good reason to do so.

Isn't owing $16k on the Subaru "a real good reason to do so"? Is that what people mean when they talk about the forum getting soft?

I have an Outback, without the bells and whistles, and I have three kids. I will admit that it's pretty nice to be able to put the stroller in the back, but other than that, I don't see why the prius couldn't work. I always thought the trunk area of a Prius was pretty spacious, but maybe I'm mistaken there. How old are your kids? Could you use the Element for the trips that require extra gear, like camping, etc?

This exactly. Just knowing that I have the $16k debt drives me crazy. And that the Prius would dramatically improve my gas mileage.  I cringe when I see that my gas mileage is 30 mpg (or even less at times). Can I “afford” the Outback? Sure. Does it drive my inner mustachian self crazy? Absolutely!!  Honestly, I think I’ve held onto this long only because I have two very young children riding around with me and the outback does feel very safe. If it were just me, I’d just drive a beater and never think twice about it. But the Prius seems to tick all of the boxes: very safe, excellent mpg, much cheaper to maintain, and big enough to drive my kids around in.  I do like your idea about using the element for the camping trips.

[darknight]

I had a 2012 Prius and it was a fantastic car! There might be a little more space in an outback but honestly how many times do you have the outback full to the brim? The Toyota you can load a surprising amount in and still get 40 mpg. I've had a couple subarus (nothing as new as yours) and yes they are fantastic offroad and in the snow. I live in Montana and have taken subaru's on jeep-like trails. I've also taken 2 wd cars on some really sketchy drives that most people take 4x4 only... meaning unless you are legitimately off-roading a 2wd will be more than sufficient. My subaru's would only get 18-23 mpg, literally HALF what the Prius would do. I live in snow country, just as MMM says himself, good snow tires are what really matter. Ultimately, it's more important to be able stop (modern cars with ABS and snow tires) than it is to accelerate when it comes to car safety.

I'd take the immediate savings of the payment and 2x the mileage without hesitation. Another factor not yet mentioned is reliability.. head gaskets are still an issue with subarus (as are the auto transmissions). Prius's are incredibly reliable.

My only warning.. if you switch to a vehicle that routinely gets 40+ mpg, you'll be entirely jaded on what is considered "acceptable" mileage. My current vehicle gets 40-50 mpg - we drive a lot (here in Montana we love to go hike swim etc and there can be a lot of country to travel). I never think twice about cost to drive to a location. I can't express how nice it is to know you're burning less fuel and saving $$ at the same time.

Forgot to add, I have 2 children as well, space was never an issue for the 4 of us in the car and i'm over 6ft

[LibStache]

I had a 2012 Prius and it was a fantastic car! There might be a little more space in an outback but honestly how many times do you have the outback full to the brim? The Toyota you can load a surprising amount in and still get 40 mpg. I've had a couple subarus (nothing as new as yours) and yes they are fantastic offroad and in the snow. I live in Montana and have taken subaru's on jeep-like trails. I've also taken 2 wd cars on some really sketchy drives that most people take 4x4 only... meaning unless you are legitimately off-roading a 2wd will be more than sufficient. My subaru's would only get 18-23 mpg, literally HALF what the Prius would do. I live in snow country, just as MMM says himself, good snow tires are what really matter. Ultimately, it's more important to be able stop (modern cars with ABS and snow tires) than it is to accelerate when it comes to car safety.

I'd take the immediate savings of the payment and 2x the mileage without hesitation. Another factor not yet mentioned is reliability.. head gaskets are still an issue with subarus (as are the auto transmissions). Prius's are incredibly reliable.

My only warning.. if you switch to a vehicle that routinely gets 40+ mpg, you'll be entirely jaded on what is considered "acceptable" mileage. My current vehicle gets 40-50 mpg - we drive a lot (here in Montana we love to go hike swim etc and there can be a lot of country to travel). I never think twice about cost to drive to a location. I can't express how nice it is to know you're burning less fuel and saving $$ at the same time.

Forgot to add, I have 2 children as well, space was never an issue for the 4 of us in the car and i'm over 6ft

Thank you so much! Yeah, this pretty much convinces me to go with a Prius.

[ender]

Wow! Thank you so much for taking the time to post this. That really puts things into perspective. Amazingly, my exact car with the same mileage is selling around $21-22k, at least in this area, not sure if prices fluctuate around the country. Which is pretty amazing considering I bought it used for $23k in 2018. I also agree with you that the ability to haul more stuff around is not worth $3295 per year. Thanks again!

Make sure you check Carvana/Carmax/Vrooom and any others that are local to you before selling.

Some of the offers they are giving are insane and your car fits the bill for the types of vehicles they have had insane offers on due to teh car shortgage.

[darknight]

Wow! Thank you so much for taking the time to post this. That really puts things into perspective. Amazingly, my exact car with the same mileage is selling around $21-22k, at least in this area, not sure if prices fluctuate around the country. Which is pretty amazing considering I bought it used for $23k in 2018. I also agree with you that the ability to haul more stuff around is not worth $3295 per year. Thanks again!

Make sure you check Carvana/Carmax/Vrooom and any others that are local to you before selling.

Some of the offers they are giving are insane and your car fits the bill for the types of vehicles they have had insane offers on due to teh car shortgage.

Agreed.. Used cars are going for new car prices in some areas. Check Craigslist etc and see where others are pricing their cars.

[Proud Foot]

Something to consider with the Prius that I have not seen mentioned. The car is 10 years old. It's hard to estimate exactly when it will go out but the hybrid battery will die. When it happens will you end up replacing the battery or the car? Something else to factor into your comparison?

[darknight]

Def a comparison. My brother has a 2010 and the "power generator" something-or-other went out last month. Not the battery. Toyota warrantied it! It's now getting better mileage too. Battery cost can be 2-4k, but failure rate is much lower than subaru headgasket failure rate.

Another thought would be to look at a Prius V. They are much larger and can turn great mpg's

[StartingEarly]

If your commute is only 55 miles have you considered anything plug in? If you can plug in at work then most plug ins would do 75% of your commute on gas if not 100% Is your electricity cost in your area reasonable?