Advice please. Keep or sell my Toyota Tundra??

[JJ saves]

Ive been following the mustache life for a few years now and i can honestly say its changed my life! Ive done all the regular mustache savers like, lower cell phone bill, got rid of my cable, and ride my bicycle as much as i can.

Should i still keep my 2005 2wd Toyota Tundra? Here are some facts
Paid off
only vehicle owned 6 years
115,000 miles
looks great
very reliable my brother is a mechanic and has done all work to it.
Average GAS used 40-60$ month.
annual Registration 220$ CA is a bitch!
insurance is 725$ per year


My commute to work is 24 miles round trip which i make only once a week. I try to bike to work at least once a month due to equipment I have to bring with me. On my off days i bike to grocery  stores so i almost never use my tundra when i am home. I know its a gas guzzler, and not the mustache way, but would it be worth getting something more fuel efficient? All my cash is in my investments so i have only a couple of thousand in my savings account. If i did buy another car id either have to sell some investments, or take out a car loan. I was thinking a price range of 10-15,000$ and possibly a prius, corrola, civic.

Any advised would be appreciated.

 

[lbmustache]

How much is the truck worth?

I think you use so little gas that it does not make sense financially to spend 10k+ on a new car. It would take a very long time to pay the difference off.

[JJ saves]

Kelly blue book say about 7500$ Ive seen similar Toyota tundras like mine go for 5000-7000$. Im fortunate to live in an area where groceries, stores, are all 1mile or less away and is pretty bike friendly. Summer is the only time i put miles on it when i go surfing.

[JLee]

I don't think it'd be worth the risk of going to a different used vehicle with less known history.  The driveline on the Tundra is rock solid and I wouldn't be surprised if it made it past 400k with regular care.

[JJ saves]

I don't think it'd be worth the risk of going to a different used vehicle with less known history.  The driveline on the Tundra is rock solid and I wouldn't be surprised if it made it past 400k with regular care.

Thanks! I think your right. Between my brother and I we do all maintenance, oil, brakes, transmission. it has been a very good truck. I don't know if we would be able to do as much maintenance on a newer car.

[JLee]

I don't think it'd be worth the risk of going to a different used vehicle with less known history.  The driveline on the Tundra is rock solid and I wouldn't be surprised if it made it past 400k with regular care.

Thanks! I think your right. Between my brother and I we do all maintenance, oil, brakes, transmission. it has been a very good truck. I don't know if we would be able to do as much maintenance on a newer car.

How many miles did it have when you bought it? V6 or V8?

[JJ saves]

I don't think it'd be worth the risk of going to a different used vehicle with less known history.  The driveline on the Tundra is rock solid and I wouldn't be surprised if it made it past 400k with regular care.

Thanks! I think your right. Between my brother and I we do all maintenance, oil, brakes, transmission. it has been a very good truck. I don't know if we would be able to do as much maintenance on a newer car.

How many miles did it have when you bought it? V6 or V8?

Its got the 4.7V8 and i purchased it with 60,000 miles. All I've done to the engine is change water pump it went out, and replaced timing chain preventative maintenance since the water pump was out, and easy to get to the timing chain. Also i run full synthetic oil.

[SnackDog]

You don't need a V8 or a pickup, but it's not worth much so keep it but try to drive less. You said up to $60/month for four 24 mile trips. Math doesn't work.

Have you considered lending it to people who need a truck? Start a hauling service?

You need to find ways to earn more so you can save more.

[Malum Prohibitum]

insurance is 725$ per year

  It is a decade old truck.  Carry liability insurance only.  Drop comprehensive and collision.  Maybe carry uninsured motorist.  Then raise the deductible as high as possible.  That will lower your insurance cost.  Basically, you would be self insuring the value of the decade old truck in case you caused a wreck (you were at fault) and totaled it.

[KarefulKactus15]

You should sell said truck to me! JK But thats a rock solid truck.   Like the other person posted, I don't think it makes sense to go through selling it to get a better commuter, since you don't really commute.    Now if you were pushing 250-300 Miles a week wed be having a different conversation. 

This comment won't be well received around here, but I like having a truck.  If you buy a lot of crap on craigslist, or do stuff around your house or help other people out often, they are nice to keep around.   

Your not going to save any money going to a 10-15k used car with your commute, in fact the faster depreciation would eat any gas savings.  The only savings would be downgrading to a 4500$ car which might not be in great shape.     

In your circumstance,  I vote keep your well maintained truck,  and carry liability only.   

[HairyUpperLip]

I would keep it personally.

[JLee]

I don't think it'd be worth the risk of going to a different used vehicle with less known history.  The driveline on the Tundra is rock solid and I wouldn't be surprised if it made it past 400k with regular care.

Thanks! I think your right. Between my brother and I we do all maintenance, oil, brakes, transmission. it has been a very good truck. I don't know if we would be able to do as much maintenance on a newer car.

How many miles did it have when you bought it? V6 or V8?

Its got the 4.7V8 and i purchased it with 60,000 miles. All I've done to the engine is change water pump it went out, and replaced timing chain preventative maintenance since the water pump was out, and easy to get to the timing chain. Also i run full synthetic oil.

It's a timing belt, but yes - as long as that's done you're good til 180k before you should do it again. You're putting about 9000 miles a year on it, so you're about 30 years out from when I'd start to think the engine might be getting tired.  The 100-series Landcruiser has the same motor and people are running them past 400k.

[Dicey]

Another vote for keeping it. Your future self will probably feel like a complete badass when he's still rocking that twenty year old truck that's still in great running condition.

[sfb]

I had a 2010 Tundra and liked it very much.  I also had a 2005 Tacoma before that.  At the time I didn't mind the lousy mileage (I averaged about 16-17 MPG in mixed driving).  But it was the price of a new set of tires for the Tacoma ($1200) after only 60000 miles that irked me.  Previously, I had owned Honda Accords and new tires were less than $400. 

I justified keeping the truck because of all the remodeling I did on my house.  But I could have put a hitch on my Accord and rented a trailer and saved a lot of money.  I sold the Tundra and got a used 2005 Matrix (with hitch) and enjoy it very much.  I now average 29 MPG, which doesn't save me a lot since gas prices are low.  But who knows if prices ever go up again?

[humbleMouse]

Keep it!  The mustache thing to do is the thing that makes sense, there is no one size fits all car solution.  Everyone else has pointed out all the reasons you should keep it.   I will just add by saying I love the utility of trucks and toyota makes very reliable products.

[HairyUpperLip]

But who knows if prices ever go up again?

They will. Don't worry.

[seemsright]

Keep the thing. Hubby has a '05 Tacoma with 95k miles. It sat all summer as he road his bike to work. The neighbor thought he got a DUI...lol.

[JLee]

I had a 2010 Tundra and liked it very much.  I also had a 2005 Tacoma before that.  At the time I didn't mind the lousy mileage (I averaged about 16-17 MPG in mixed driving).  But it was the price of a new set of tires for the Tacoma ($1200) after only 60000 miles that irked me.  Previously, I had owned Honda Accords and new tires were less than $400. 

I justified keeping the truck because of all the remodeling I did on my house.  But I could have put a hitch on my Accord and rented a trailer and saved a lot of money.  I sold the Tundra and got a used 2005 Matrix (with hitch) and enjoy it very much.  I now average 29 MPG, which doesn't save me a lot since gas prices are low.  But who knows if prices ever go up again?

OEM tires (BF Goodrich Rugged Trail TA) for a 2005 Tacoma 4x4 (in the largest size that was stock) are $123.20/ea (not to mention the $70 rebate on a set of 4) at TireRack right now...it shouldn't have cost $1200!

[JJ saves]

insurance is 725$ per year

  It is a decade old truck.  Carry liability insurance only.  Drop comprehensive and collision.  Maybe carry uninsured motorist.  Then raise the deductible as high as possible.  That will lower your insurance cost.  Basically, you would be self insuring the value of the decade old truck in case you caused a wreck (you were at fault) and totaled it.

I have AAA and I will certainly look into changing my insurance coverage. I can drop some cost by removing comprehensive. Last year I upped my deductible to save money but i think its time to look at my coverage again. Thanks!

[JJ saves]

You don't need a V8 or a pickup, but it's not worth much so keep it but try to drive less. You said up to $60/month for four 24 mile trips. Math doesn't work.

Have you considered lending it to people who need a truck? Start a hauling service?

You need to find ways to earn more so you can save more.

60$ per month is on the very high side. That cost might only be a few months of the year depending on work training classes i attend which are kinda far. Most of the time Id say 35-40$ a month. I like the hauling service idea, but I take such good care of it Id be scared to hurt it.

[JJ saves]

I don't think it'd be worth the risk of going to a different used vehicle with less known history.  The driveline on the Tundra is rock solid and I wouldn't be surprised if it made it past 400k with regular care.

Thanks! I think your right. Between my brother and I we do all maintenance, oil, brakes, transmission. it has been a very good truck. I don't know if we would be able to do as much maintenance on a newer car.

How many miles did it have when you bought it? V6 or V8?

Its got the 4.7V8 and i purchased it with 60,000 miles. All I've done to the engine is change water pump it went out, and replaced timing chain preventative maintenance since the water pump was out, and easy to get to the timing chain. Also i run full synthetic oil.

It's a timing belt, but yes - as long as that's done you're good til 180k before you should do it again. You're putting about 9000 miles a year on it, so you're about 30 years out from when I'd start to think the engine might be getting tired.  The 100-series Landcruiser has the same motor and people are running them past 400k.

Your correct timing belt. My brother mechanic replaced it at 90k so we wouldn't have to deal with it until well over 160k. Glad to hear those motors run so long. Most of the miles I put on it were in the first 3 years of ownership when i lived 100 miles from work. Now I live very close so it sits most of the time.

[snogirl]

I'm in the "keep it" camp as well.
Love my truck (Tacoma). 
I would be hard pressed to be convinced to sell it (I own it).
That really is what matters, what you want to do with it.

Your Tundra is solid sounds great from your description.
Honestly, the ultimate answer is up to you.
 

[JJ saves]

Keep the thing. Hubby has a '05 Tacoma with 95k miles. It sat all summer as he road his bike to work. The neighbor thought he got a DUI...lol.

My neighbors are always thrown off when I bike to work. Its amazing how puzzled they are Its almost like Im riding a magic carpet. Im surprised they haven't asked if i got a DUI..haha! I must say as mustache as my life is I really do love that truck.

[James]

You average 10k miles a year and are driving a big truck when you don't need to? And people are saying keep it???

I really don't get this forums some days...

No, it may not be a huge deal. But yes, you should sell it. You can get a cheaper vehicle to drive and just as reliable, you don't need a gas hog like that, so the "right" thing to do is sell it.

I'm perfectly happy with all of us making our own choices, but this is MMM forum, we should all acknowledge that driving a full size truck with a V8 for no reason is NOT mustachian, and there is no reason not to drop your vehicle size into something reasonable for your situation. Keep it if you want, we all make exceptions and I'm fine with that. But there is a lot of horrible excuses in this thread for driving a big truck. "Because I want to" is a fine excuse if you want it, just don't confuse that with a lot of the bullshit reasons above.

PS The biking is awesome, this isn't an attack by any means, just don't like the stupid reasons that keeping it is somehow "good" or mustachian...

[JLee]

You average 10k miles a year and are driving a big truck when you don't need to? And people are saying keep it???

I really don't get this forums some days...

No, it may not be a huge deal. But yes, you should sell it. You can get a cheaper vehicle to drive and just as reliable, you don't need a gas hog like that, so the "right" thing to do is sell it.

I'm perfectly happy with all of us making our own choices, but this is MMM forum, we should all acknowledge that driving a full size truck with a V8 for no reason is NOT mustachian, and there is no reason not to drop your vehicle size into something reasonable for your situation. Keep it if you want, we all make exceptions and I'm fine with that. But there is a lot of horrible excuses in this thread for driving a big truck. "Because I want to" is a fine excuse if you want it, just don't confuse that with a lot of the bullshit reasons above.

PS The biking is awesome, this isn't an attack by any means, just don't like the stupid reasons that keeping it is somehow "good" or mustachian...

You are not going to beat (or even match) the reliability of a 2wd Toyota pickup that's been owned/cared for properly.  Why take the inherent risk of buying a different used vehicle? That truck will last him forever.

[Jack]

Should i still keep my 2005 2wd Toyota Tundra? Here are some facts
Paid off
only vehicle owned 6 years
115,000 miles
looks great

If that's true, then you should get rid of it. Unless your truck is beat to Hell and back, you never needed a truck in the first place.

However, you should not replace it with a $10K+ car. You should replace it with a car of the same value or less, especially since you don't often need it. And if you're worried about your ability to do DIY maintenance on a newer car, then get an older car instead!

Also note: it's (older) Tacomas that are legendarily indestructible, not Tundras. Although I'm sure they're decent, I see no reason to expect Tundras to last longer than any other random Toyota.

[JLee]

Should i still keep my 2005 2wd Toyota Tundra? Here are some facts
Paid off
only vehicle owned 6 years
115,000 miles
looks great

If that's true, then you should get rid of it. Unless your truck is beat to Hell and back, you never needed a truck in the first place.

However, you should not replace it with a $10K+ car. You should replace it with a car of the same value or less, especially since you don't often need it. And if you're worried about your ability to do DIY maintenance on a newer car, then get an older car instead!

Also note: it's (older) Tacomas that are legendarily indestructible, not Tundras. Although I'm sure they're decent, I see no reason to expect Tundras to last longer than any other random Toyota.

His Tundra has the driveline out of the 100-series Landcruiser, which is known for this.

[James]

You are not going to beat (or even match) the reliability of a 2wd Toyota pickup that's been owned/cared for properly.  Why take the inherent risk of buying a different used vehicle? That truck will last him forever.

So based on that logic I should sell my Prius and replace it with a 2wd Toyota pickup?

I'm not going to take the time to do the math for what the extra gas costs are for driving 9,000 miles a year at 40mpg vs whatever that V8 truck gets, but I would wager my 401k that it will more than make up for the "inherent risk" and transaction costs of switching to a correct size vehicle. (and I bet your insurance will go down with the car as well)

However, you should not replace it with a $10K+ car. You should replace it with a car of the same value or less, especially since you don't often need it. And if you're worried about your ability to do DIY maintenance on a newer car, then get an older car instead!

Absolutely agree, you don't need to spend more than the value of the truck for your replacement vehicle.

[JLee]

You are not going to beat (or even match) the reliability of a 2wd Toyota pickup that's been owned/cared for properly.  Why take the inherent risk of buying a different used vehicle? That truck will last him forever.

So based on that logic I should sell my Prius and replace it with a 2wd Toyota pickup? Is that what you are suggesting?

I'm not going to take the time to do the math for what the extra gas costs are for driving 9,000 miles a year at 40mpg vs whatever that V8 truck gets, but I would wager my 401k that it will more than make up for the "inherent risk" and transaction costs of switching to a correct size vehicle. (and I bet your insurance will go down with the car as well)

However, you should not replace it with a $10K+ car. You should replace it with a car of the same value or less, especially since you don't often need it. And if you're worried about your ability to do DIY maintenance on a newer car, then get an older car instead!

Absolutely agree, you don't need to spend more than the value of the truck for your replacement vehicle.

This is what I am suggesting:

You are not going to beat (or even match) the reliability of a 2wd Toyota pickup that's been owned/cared for properly.  Why take the inherent risk of buying a different used vehicle? That truck will last him forever.

Perhaps you should read it again.

Also, read the part of the thread where he says he's not driving 9k a year anymore.

[Dicey]

You are not going to beat (or even match) the reliability of a 2wd Toyota pickup that's been owned/cared for properly.  Why take the inherent risk of buying a different used vehicle? That truck will last him forever.

So based on that logic I should sell my Prius and replace it with a 2wd Toyota pickup?

Oh James, I've missed your voice and viewpoint. I'm glad you're back and posting more frequently. I think I understand your position, but sorry, that analogy is a stinker. Please don't be so hard on the guy. For your situation, your Prius probably makes perfect sense, but to paraphrase humbleMouse, one size does not fit all.  No one is saying that going out any buying a new truck that isn't 100% necessary for producing income is a good idea, but the OP's situation is a little different. There are many paths to enlightenment and many ways to FIRE. The awesome thing about mustachianism is its inherent flexibility. Save on the things that don't matter so you can chose to spend of the few things you care about.

[JJ saves]

You average 10k miles a year and are driving a big truck when you don't need to? And people are saying keep it???

I really don't get this forums some days...

No, it may not be a huge deal. But yes, you should sell it. You can get a cheaper vehicle to drive and just as reliable, you don't need a gas hog like that, so the "right" thing to do is sell it.

I'm perfectly happy with all of us making our own choices, but this is MMM forum, we should all acknowledge that driving a full size truck with a V8 for no reason is NOT mustachian, and there is no reason not to drop your vehicle size into something reasonable for your situation. Keep it if you want, we all make exceptions and I'm fine with that. But there is a lot of horrible excuses in this thread for driving a big truck. "Because I want to" is a fine excuse if you want it, just don't confuse that with a lot of the bullshit reasons above.

PS The biking is awesome, this isn't an attack by any means, just don't like the stupid reasons that keeping it is somehow "good" or mustachian...

You make valid points which is what I wanted to hear out of this posting so thank you for that. However you are incorrect with the 10k miles a year. For the last 3 years since relocating very close to work I average 1500 miles a year. This is why the decision to keep or sell it is not so black and white. 35-45$ a month in gas is usual, and maintenance is cheap almost zero another factor that makes it hard to get rid of. If I ever do sell it I would purchase a used Prius . Also your so called "bullshit reasons" that were made earlier by others that do live the mustachian life seem fine with it or have similar circumstances. So to each his own. Im grateful for all the PRO's and CON's feed back. For now I will keep my Toyota and still live the Mustachian life!

[DeltaBond]

I don't think it'd be worth the risk of going to a different used vehicle with less known history.  The driveline on the Tundra is rock solid and I wouldn't be surprised if it made it past 400k with regular care.

Thanks! I think your right. Between my brother and I we do all maintenance, oil, brakes, transmission. it has been a very good truck. I don't know if we would be able to do as much maintenance on a newer car.

Ya know, although I'm finally trading in my new accord, I do agree that it might be worth it to keep the truck.  When trading in my honda, I still owe $22K on it, but bought an older $3K vehicle... BUT, my husband and I work on cars anyway, we enjoy it AND we don't have to drive to work mroeo than once a week.  With the deal I got trading in, I didn't look at whether or not I was getting what the honda is "worth", I looked at the overall savings over the next 4 years (the remaining life of the loan) and I'm saving $15K on the deal... so even if I have to pay a little for repairs of this older car, and I have a back up car, too... I'm still saving money.  You may feel this is something in your best interest, as well.  If you're happy to pay for your truck and plan to keep it for years and years to come, which you can, then there isn't really anything wrong with that choice.

[Blatant]

I think keeping an item that you own outright and is known to be mechanically solid is a pretty obvious choice.

[Dicey]

I think keeping an item that you own outright and is known to be mechanically solid is a pretty obvious choice.

Amen.

[kimmarg]

I don't get 2WD trucks - what's the point? They are almost always rear wheel drive which handle awful in snow, etc. I don't care how far you drive any rear wheel drive vehicle deserves to be ditched. (If it's FWD we can talk but I've been in one too many skids with RWD to ever use one again.....)

EDIT: sorry ignore me. I just saw the location 'SoCal' .... I'm guessing handling in snow isn't a concern.  Just had an almost identical conversation with a coworker but the difference is he commutes in blizzards....

[SnackDog]

You are driving 1500 miles per year. That's 125 miles per month.  And you spend more than $30/mo on gas.  Hmmm.  If you are getting 12 mpg, then the Prius would get you about 50 mpg.  That is a factor of four improvement.  So you could reduce $30 to $7 and save $23/mo.  zzzzzzz. You need to drive a lot more to save more!

[Syonyk]

No, it may not be a huge deal. But yes, you should sell it. You can get a cheaper vehicle to drive and just as reliable, you don't need a gas hog like that, so the "right" thing to do is sell it.

How many "cheaper vehicles" have you purchased over the years?  I've yet to acquire a new-to-me used vehicle that didn't take about a solid 6 months of maintenance on the weekends to get up to my standards.  Nobody keeps detailed maintenance logs anymore, and if they do, the vehicle is going to be sold at a premium over other instances of the type.

I would easily add a 25% modifier to the value of a vehicle if I knew the maintenance history - so selling and buying cheaper only makes sense if you save a LOT, which doesn't seem that likely in this case.  You're not going to get a $4k Prius that's in good shape.

I think keeping an item that you own outright and is known to be mechanically solid is a pretty obvious choice.

Agree, especially if it's not driven that much.  Keep it, do what you can for fuel economy (I don't drive my truck much over 65 if I can help it), and keep not driving it.  It's just not that expensive to keep around, and a stupidly reliable drivetrain you know the maintenance history on is worth a lot.

I don't get 2WD trucks - what's the point? They are almost always rear wheel drive which handle awful in snow, etc. I don't care how far you drive any rear wheel drive vehicle deserves to be ditched. (If it's FWD we can talk but I've been in one too many skids with RWD to ever use one again.....)

They're just fine for most weather, they're a lot cheaper and lighter than the 4WD version, and if you throw some weight in the back and get some competent snow tires, they're fine for even moderate snow.

[JLee]

I don't care how far you drive any rear wheel drive vehicle deserves to be ditched.

.....said no car enthusiast ever, but that's a different topic. :)

[Syonyk]

I don't care how far you drive any rear wheel drive vehicle deserves to be ditched.

.....said no car enthusiast ever, but that's a different topic. :)

Look, this forum generally considers the Prius to be, like, the best vehicle ever.  You're not going to find too many RWD sports car types here. :(

[Goldielocks]

Skimming through,  did not see anyone mention this yet.


You are an ideal candidate for NO CAR.   Your vehicle is in prime condition, and you should get great dollar value for it.

Is there anyway to car share?  use a neighbors car one day a week?  Enterprise car rental picks you up and they tend to be in most small cities around CA for rental insurance and car repair clients.   renting one day per week x 4 weeks is only about $200.

Is transit (partial) a possibility for any part of the commute?  Car pooling where you bike to where you get picked up?

What about an electric bike, or a scooter?  I assume you have highway travel, but maybe not?

[Syonyk]

From the OP:

...due to equipment I have to bring with me.

So he has to haul something, apparently reasonably heavy.

[Money Badger]

Keep the truck.   Selling a reliable used vehicle usually leads 6 months later to buying a newer, less reliable vehicle.   Don't ask me how I know (twice)!

[JJ saves]

Skimming through,  did not see anyone mention this yet.


You are an ideal candidate for NO CAR.   Your vehicle is in prime condition, and you should get great dollar value for it.

Is there anyway to car share?  use a neighbors car one day a week?  Enterprise car rental picks you up and they tend to be in most small cities around CA for rental insurance and car repair clients.   renting one day per week x 4 weeks is only about $200.

Is transit (partial) a possibility for any part of the commute?  Car pooling where you bike to where you get picked up?

What about an electric bike, or a scooter?  I assume you have highway travel, but maybe not?

Unfortunately I cant get rid of my truck or any vehicle completely yet. Im a Firemen and sometimes have to haul a lot of gear with me to and from work or to training classes. My schedule varies, so sometimes Im gone for many days so I cant really share or borrow rides. The days I don't work more then 24hrs is when I can bike. I have thought about a EBike but still looking into it.

Thanks all for the great info.

[JLee]

Skimming through,  did not see anyone mention this yet.


You are an ideal candidate for NO CAR.   Your vehicle is in prime condition, and you should get great dollar value for it.

Is there anyway to car share?  use a neighbors car one day a week?  Enterprise car rental picks you up and they tend to be in most small cities around CA for rental insurance and car repair clients.   renting one day per week x 4 weeks is only about $200.

Is transit (partial) a possibility for any part of the commute?  Car pooling where you bike to where you get picked up?

What about an electric bike, or a scooter?  I assume you have highway travel, but maybe not?

that's $200/mo + gas + insurance, or $78/mo currently...

[James]

Oh James, I've missed your voice and viewpoint. I'm glad you're back and posting more frequently. I think I understand your position, but sorry, that analogy is a stinker. Please don't be so hard on the guy. For your situation, your Prius probably makes perfect sense, but to paraphrase humbleMouse, one size does not fit all.  No one is saying that going out any buying a new truck that isn't 100% necessary for producing income is a good idea, but the OP's situation is a little different. There are many paths to enlightenment and many ways to FIRE. The awesome thing about mustachianism is its inherent flexibility. Save on the things that don't matter so you can chose to spend of the few things you care about.

I definitely agree with your overall idea, there are many ways to fire, almost nobody does everything perfectly "by the book", and I would suggest everyone be comfortable with some exceptions to the perfect "mustachian" lifestyle to make it fit them. My overall response was not that he must sell the truck, but that if he keeps it he should keep it for the right reason. Not because it's the best decision financially, but simply because he wants to. That is good enough, it can be a slightly worse financial decision and still be the right decision. Just don't want to get hung up on bullshit excuses that others might see and think apply to them.

You make valid points which is what I wanted to hear out of this posting so thank you for that. However you are incorrect with the 10k miles a year. For the last 3 years since relocating very close to work I average 1500 miles a year. This is why the decision to keep or sell it is not so black and white. 35-45$ a month in gas is usual, and maintenance is cheap almost zero another factor that makes it hard to get rid of. If I ever do sell it I would purchase a used Prius . Also your so called "bullshit reasons" that were made earlier by others that do live the mustachian life seem fine with it or have similar circumstances. So to each his own. Im grateful for all the PRO's and CON's feed back. For now I will keep my Toyota and still live the Mustachian life!

The 1500 miles per year wasn't in your earlier posts, and maybe I read through your posts too quickly and simply have the wrong basis for my earlier rant... :)


Like I said above and in my original post, I have nothing against keeping the truck, especially since now I know you want it for hauling big items, lower miles than I previously thought, etc. I do think we should separate out the two points. You asked a specific question and gave specific information, and I believe the mustachian answer to your specific question and original information is clearly "you should sell the truck".


But then there is the personal decision of what value the truck has to you and whether it is worth it to you to keep it, and I fully understand your decision to keep it. And I am fine with people saying "I would keep it" and "you should keep it", I just don't like the insinuation that it is the best financial move that is better in any objective way. It's a luxury that is fairly cheap and very enjoyable to you, so enjoy it!

[Goldielocks]

Skimming through,  did not see anyone mention this yet.


You are an ideal candidate for NO CAR.   Your vehicle is in prime condition, and you should get great dollar value for it.

Is there anyway to car share?  use a neighbors car one day a week?  Enterprise car rental picks you up and they tend to be in most small cities around CA for rental insurance and car repair clients.   renting one day per week x 4 weeks is only about $200.

Is transit (partial) a possibility for any part of the commute?  Car pooling where you bike to where you get picked up?

What about an electric bike, or a scooter?  I assume you have highway travel, but maybe not?

that's $200/mo + gas + insurance, or $78/mo currently...

$200 includes insurance, heck zipcar is all in for only what, $60 per day ( high because they want you to return car in 4 hrs)..  Okay, I just looked it up, car rental plus insurance and tax at ca small city, not at airport is $43, per day(intermediate car).  Need 1 gallon of gas for 24 miles round trip....  $48 per trip * 3 per month plus 15% for 6 more rental days per year...$175 per month..


Don't forget about depreciation/ value tied up in the tundra, and maintenance at $1000 per year on a 10 y.o. vehicle for battery, tires, shocks, brakes, timing belt, and those occasional large repairs. That puts him well over $200 per month on a gas guzzler.

What it boils down to is ease of renting, how much one wants a car always there, how much one wants to ramp up cycling on days off, and how much you just like the vehicle.  If it is a pain, and you will buy a new one in a year or two, then put a high price on it, and try to sell it while you dont need to.

Driving three days a month and no kids or others to ramp up the risk of emergency need, for a car, this is one of the few cases where a car could be optional.

[JLee]

Skimming through,  did not see anyone mention this yet.


You are an ideal candidate for NO CAR.   Your vehicle is in prime condition, and you should get great dollar value for it.

Is there anyway to car share?  use a neighbors car one day a week?  Enterprise car rental picks you up and they tend to be in most small cities around CA for rental insurance and car repair clients.   renting one day per week x 4 weeks is only about $200.

Is transit (partial) a possibility for any part of the commute?  Car pooling where you bike to where you get picked up?

What about an electric bike, or a scooter?  I assume you have highway travel, but maybe not?

that's $200/mo + gas + insurance, or $78/mo currently...

$200 includes insurance, heck zipcar is all in for only what, $60 per day ( high because they want you to return car in 4 hrs)..  Okay, I just looked it up, car rental plus insurance at ca small city, not at airport is $43, per day(intermediate car).  Need 2 gallon of gas for 48 miles round trip....


Don't forget about depreciation/ value tied up in the tundra, and maintenance at $600 per year on a 6-10 y.o. vehicle for battery, tires, shocks, brakes, etc.

At ~2k miles a year, shocks will last almost forever. Brakes as well. Tires will need to be replaced due to age around the 6 year mark. A battery in Cali is probably good for ~5 years (no extreme temperatures), plus he needs to move stuff.

Older Toyota trucks are pretty much at the floor for depreciation. I sold a '99 Tacoma earlier this year with over 280,000 miles for $5500. I paid $4500 ~3 years ago.

I still think he's better off keeping what he has. Insurance and registration should only go down as the vehicle ages, too.

[JJ saves]

Oh James, I've missed your voice and viewpoint. I'm glad you're back and posting more frequently. I think I understand your position, but sorry, that analogy is a stinker. Please don't be so hard on the guy. For your situation, your Prius probably makes perfect sense, but to paraphrase humbleMouse, one size does not fit all.  No one is saying that going out any buying a new truck that isn't 100% necessary for producing income is a good idea, but the OP's situation is a little different. There are many paths to enlightenment and many ways to FIRE. The awesome thing about mustachianism is its inherent flexibility. Save on the things that don't matter so you can chose to spend of the few things you care about.

I definitely agree with your overall idea, there are many ways to fire, almost nobody does everything perfectly "by the book", and I would suggest everyone be comfortable with some exceptions to the perfect "mustachian" lifestyle to make it fit them. My overall response was not that he must sell the truck, but that if he keeps it he should keep it for the right reason. Not because it's the best decision financially, but simply because he wants to. That is good enough, it can be a slightly worse financial decision and still be the right decision. Just don't want to get hung up on bullshit excuses that others might see and think apply to them.

You make valid points which is what I wanted to hear out of this posting so thank you for that. However you are incorrect with the 10k miles a year. For the last 3 years since relocating very close to work I average 1500 miles a year. This is why the decision to keep or sell it is not so black and white. 35-45$ a month in gas is usual, and maintenance is cheap almost zero another factor that makes it hard to get rid of. If I ever do sell it I would purchase a used Prius . Also your so called "bullshit reasons" that were made earlier by others that do live the mustachian life seem fine with it or have similar circumstances. So to each his own. Im grateful for all the PRO's and CON's feed back. For now I will keep my Toyota and still live the Mustachian life!

The 1500 miles per year wasn't in your earlier posts, and maybe I read through your posts too quickly and simply have the wrong basis for my earlier rant... :)


Like I said above and in my original post, I have nothing against keeping the truck, especially since now I know you want it for hauling big items, lower miles than I previously thought, etc. I do think we should separate out the two points. You asked a specific question and gave specific information, and I believe the mustachian answer to your specific question and original information is clearly "you should sell the truck".


But then there is the personal decision of what value the truck has to you and whether it is worth it to you to keep it, and I fully understand your decision to keep it. And I am fine with people saying "I would keep it" and "you should keep it", I just don't like the insinuation that it is the best financial move that is better in any objective way. It's a luxury that is fairly cheap and very enjoyable to you, so enjoy it!

I should of given more details about what I use the truck for which would of also factored in the decision making process. I believe biking more will also lower my cost in the near future. Your information and experience is appreciated.

[Syonyk]

Keep the truck.   Selling a reliable used vehicle usually leads 6 months later to buying a newer, less reliable vehicle.   Don't ask me how I know (twice)!

I do wonder how many people who argue for "Sell your currently well maintained vehicle, buy a cheaper used car" have much experience with buying a larger number of cheaper used cars.

Maybe I just want too low in college (I purchased a /lot/ of sub-$500 cars), but on literally every used vehicle I've purchased, even more expensive ones later in life, it's taken me about 6 months of work (I do most of my own work) to get it fixed up to my standard.  Sometimes it's little stuff, sometimes it's apparently the reason it was sold (the clutch was almost, but not entirely, cooked, and I'm doing a clutch and flywheel in 2000 miles).  I can't say I've really found a way to save money by selling a vehicle and buying a cheaper one, though I've never tried selling a luxury car and buying a $10k Civic.  That might work better.

But for the sub-$5000 vehicle range, I really, really don't see a huge advantage to getting rid of "the evil you know."  By the time you factor in sales tax and registration on a new vehicle, plus the time and parts to get it up to where it needs to be, you'd need to be basically starting from half what you got for your other vehicle to have any chance of a profit, and even then, parts may eat into that.  If it's not being driven much, the fuel savings won't pay for themselves either.

[Dicey]

Keep the truck.   Selling a reliable used vehicle usually leads 6 months later to buying a newer, less reliable vehicle.   Don't ask me how I know (twice)!

I do wonder how many people who argue for "Sell your currently well maintained vehicle, buy a cheaper used car" have much experience with buying a larger number of cheaper used cars.

Maybe I just want too low in college (I purchased a /lot/ of sub-$500 cars), but on literally every used vehicle I've purchased, even more expensive ones later in life, it's taken me about 6 months of work (I do most of my own work) to get it fixed up to my standard.  Sometimes it's little stuff, sometimes it's apparently the reason it was sold (the clutch was almost, but not entirely, cooked, and I'm doing a clutch and flywheel in 2000 miles).  I can't say I've really found a way to save money by selling a vehicle and buying a cheaper one, though I've never tried selling a luxury car and buying a $10k Civic.  That might work better.

But for the sub-$5000 vehicle range, I really, really don't see a huge advantage to getting rid of "the evil you know."  By the time you factor in sales tax and registration on a new vehicle, plus the time and parts to get it up to where it needs to be, you'd need to be basically starting from half what you got for your other vehicle to have any chance of a profit, and even then, parts may eat into that.  If it's not being driven much, the fuel savings won't pay for themselves either.

^^This. Or rather, both of these.^^