Author Topic: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?  (Read 9902 times)

neo von retorch

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2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« on: June 19, 2014, 08:07:49 AM »
Maybe I'm just being lazy and not doing the legwork (research insurance and other math), but I'm trying to figure out if it's a good idea.

I think I can get close to $17,000 for it and I could buy something like a 2007-2008 Honda Fit with under 100,000 miles on it for around $8,000-9,000.
Both my vehicle and that generation of Fit get 31-33 mpg overall (with me driving them.)

Or I could go much older, and get a car for $4,000-5,000. Just extra money to put in the bank. And if it's old enough, I wouldn't even bother with collision insurance, so I'd save more.

I'd like some Mustachian perspectives, though!

ketchup

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2014, 08:47:32 AM »
From what I've heard, Fits get better mileage than that.  Someone on here was posting recently about theirs getting "only" 35MPG on a roadtrip and being disappointed with that when it usually gets 40+.  EPA numbers are garbage; look at what real people are actually getting.

Either way though, it absolutely makes sense to "trade down".  I'd take your time though, and try out a few options to find one you really like (make sure you'd like a Fit, etc).

As I'm sure you're aware you're big win here is saving on depreciation.  That $17,000 car will drop in value a lot faster than a $5,000-$8,000 car, even if you put 0 miles on it in a year.  Any savings on insurance and gas will be another source of savings.

neo von retorch

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2014, 09:03:59 AM »
Ha I said "with me driving them" because I owned a 2007 Fit from... 2007 through 2011. I sold it while dating a pretty girl that liked expensive things... and bought a $28k Acura. OUCH! Fast forward a year, and I traded the Acura in for a big loss to get the CX-5, which has a lot going for. I find the CX-5 gets close to the gas mileage as the Fit, mostly because the highway gear is so much higher. (Over 1000 rpms lower than the Fit at the same speed.)

http://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/fit/2007/xxaaqq/12962 Looks like I averaged 32.5 mpg over those 4 years.
http://www.fuelly.com/car/mazda/cx-5/2013/xxaaqq/135807 Getting 31.2 mpg so far over 2 years.

So while much higher mileage is certainly possible, it's unlikely that my driving style will change that much.

As for depreciation, I can certainly see that being a big factor! Insurance might save me some, but for this specific question, I'll put it out there - I pay just $542 / year for full coverage on the CX-5.

frugaliknowit

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2014, 09:05:07 AM »
It depends on how aggressively you want to cut expenses.  Personally, if I just paid off a non-luxury car I recently bought, I would let it ride.

okashira

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2014, 09:54:23 AM »
I'd sell it.
e have a 2007 Fit we might let go very soon.
Or a 2007 accord that was rear ended that we're going to have fixed.
Either for less then $8000... :-D
Bought a 2004 RSX when the accord was rear ended...

On Collision insurance, NOT having collision insurance is a critical part of saving money on vehicle transportation. Buy a car cheaper then the price you're comfortable not having collision. Simple as that...

People should read the MMM blog a little more... this is all covered.

Stache In Training

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2014, 10:11:11 AM »
From a purely mathematical standpoint, yes "trading down" is going to win.  I'd say the only reason you'd want to keep it would depend on where you live.  If you're like me, and live in the middle of nowhere, and the next closest town is 60+ miles away through the rocky mountain wilderness... well then I'd keep the newer car, since it is paid off.  Seeing as the cars you're looking at are city commuters, I'm assuming that is not you, and so "trading down" is probably better.

gecko10x

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2014, 10:20:11 AM »
Personally, I'd keep it. We have a paid-off 2013 CX-5 and love it. But it doesn't matter what I'd do, because your situation is different.

Why are you comparing a CX-5 to a fit? They are vastly different vehicles. Seems like you aren't sure what you want/need. I think you need to figure that out first.

neo von retorch

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2014, 12:40:03 PM »
How is the CX-5 vastly different from a Fit? Brand new, the CX-5 only costs $4000-5000 more (assuming base trim). It weighs more, but again, let's compare new ones.

Both available with a six speed manual. EPA 26/35 vs 29/37. Both front-wheel-drive. Both hatchbacks. Both carry 4-5 passengers and/or a bunch of stuff in the back. Both are "most fun to drive in their class." Only difference is height, weight (and some space) with the corresponding fuel mileage trade-off.

I think Math will work... I just read a comment by MMM himself where he said "assume 10 cents per used car mile." If I add 50,000 miles but gain $8,000 I'm getting $0.16 / mile! It's not just about math for me, though. It's a bit anti-mustachian, but I want a car that is more "me" than the SUV I currently drive. As mentioned before, I had a Fit I loved for four years, before making a wholly irrational Acura purchase.

Currently I drive 15 miles one way to work, though over the course of the next year, I hope to sell my house and get an apartment much, much closer!

okashira

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2014, 05:55:34 PM »
Personally, I'd keep it. We have a paid-off 2013 CX-5 and love it. But it doesn't matter what I'd do, because your situation is different.

Why are you comparing a CX-5 to a fit? They are vastly different vehicles. Seems like you aren't sure what you want/need. I think you need to figure that out first.

You are kidding yourself (and fooling no one around here) if you think the Fit and CX-5 are vastly "different" vehicles.
They can do all the same things. The (used) fit does it better, because it costs less.

You sound like some of my co-workers with their 8,000lb SUV's and Trucks who say they "we couldn't drive/use that." "I wouldn't fit in that."

avongil

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2014, 06:11:41 PM »
Are you really getting 31 mpg?  If so then a fit will get you just a bit more and save a small amount of money.

Realistically per fuel economy.gov, the fit gets 36 and the cx-5 25 mpg. 

Additional money will be spent of maintenance due to the weight and more expensive wear items like tires.

It depends of how much you drive per year. 
Please use my car cost calculator to calculate your saving of trading down.
What you want to avoid in my opinion is getting a higher mileage car, you will have to replace it more often and the cash savings that could be put towards investments might sooner be spent on repairs.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ajeg4z5XrypmdE0yanpJSTlLTHFjbmV1eEU4cE9Ma0E&usp=drive_web#gid=0


In my opinion, the CX-5 is too heavy to be frugal.   

HairyUpperLip

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2014, 07:33:14 PM »
I'd do it just because I like the Fit better.

neo von retorch

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2014, 08:31:42 AM »
I'm not sure why everyone thinks that the second time I own a Fit, I'll get way better gas mileage than the first time I owned one ;-)

Yes, I really get 31.2 mpg with the CX-5, and yes, when I owned a Fit, I really got 32.5 mpg. Please refer to my Fuelly.com links for reference. The Fit is 28/33 EPA and the CX-5 is 26/35 EPA. (This is basically the same!) I assume FuelEconomy.gov numbers are the result of most users buying the 2.5L AWD CX-5. The one I own is 2.0L FWD. While weight is clearly part of the gas mileage equation, the 2007 Fit has a very tight fifth gear, resulting in high revs (~3500-4000rpm) on the highway. The 6-speed manual CX-5 only hits ~2800rpm at top cruising speed.

I've driven about 15,000-18,000 miles per year. (I do hope to cut this down by beginning to work remotely in the near future.)

This weekend, I checked out a 2007 Fit with 87,414 miles on it. It was rough - lots of dings and some of those were showing signs of rust. The radio was unreadable and one of the headrests was just missing. Just weird stuff but it seems like a car that has not been well taken care of. If I find the right Fit, I think I'll make the leap, though.

avongil

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2014, 09:14:49 AM »
Ok, that clears everything up. You have a FWD model, I assumed 4WD.   Check out my spreadsheet linked above. I would just keep the car or make a lateral move to something you like more.  The fuel mileage delta of 1 mpg is piddly.  The only thing you could possibly do is a get a Prius, that is the only car that would save any significant amount of money as opposed to the one you have now or a fit.

If you plan on putting any significant miles on the car, don't sell to have extra money in the bank, it wont pan out in the long run. 




SpicyMcHaggus

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2014, 09:18:38 AM »
While you may be seeing rust on the older Fits, beware that Mazda is notorious for rust. I once went to look at a 6 year old Protege that looked nice from the outside but all door jambs, rockers, and floors were spongy. The seller excuse? "Mazdas all do that." I didn't believe him, but after reading on it after the fact, seems that he was mostly correct.

neo von retorch

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2014, 12:43:53 PM »
avongil - I tried out the spreadsheet. Unfortunately it's a little hard to use. I don't know what the car will sell for at some future date. I assume the CX-5 will depreciate faster, and I can put numbers in the spreadsheet to demonstrate that, but then I'm getting the result that I already know, based on assumptions.

SpicyMcHaggus

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2014, 12:51:47 PM »
Your assumption is correct. the mazda will lose value much faster than the Honda. Near end of life, the honda will be worth 2-3x the value of the CX5. I consider this one an easy choice. Ditch it. You like the Honda better anyway.

hybrid

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2014, 02:19:08 PM »
While you may be seeing rust on the older Fits, beware that Mazda is notorious for rust. I once went to look at a 6 year old Protege that looked nice from the outside but all door jambs, rockers, and floors were spongy. The seller excuse? "Mazdas all do that." I didn't believe him, but after reading on it after the fact, seems that he was mostly correct.

Huh??? I've owned Mazdas exclusively since 1991 and have not had those issues. Do you live on the coast?

This is a good thread for me. I bought a 2010 Mazda 3 and it is 11 months from paid for on an interest free loan. I have considered selling it like the OP, but it is low mileage (45,000) and I know its ultra-reliable history, whereas if I buy something used I'll take a significant risk of buying someone else's lemon. The cautious part of me is saying let this be water under the bridge and drive it like I do all my Mazdas - for years and years. The next vehicle, which should be years from now, can be used instead of new. Anyone else relatively new to Mustachianism in the same boat?
« Last Edit: June 24, 2014, 02:45:06 PM by hybrid »

SpicyMcHaggus

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2014, 02:44:51 PM »
No, sir. I live in the midwest where salt is for roads, not a topping for popcorn.
Not uncommon for a vehicle to be scrapped while the driveline works simply due to structural components of the body, suspension mounts, etc rusting out.  Nissan/Infinity just had a large recall on pathfinders/QX4 SUVs due to dangerous rust.

gecko10x

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2014, 08:04:40 PM »

You are kidding yourself (and fooling no one around here) if you think the Fit and CX-5 are vastly "different" vehicles.
They can do all the same things. The (used) fit does it better, because it costs less.

You sound like some of my co-workers with their 8,000lb SUV's and Trucks who say they "we couldn't drive/use that." "I wouldn't fit in that."

No, I'm not kidding myself. They seem to target a different buyer to me. But whatever, you can disagree.

And I didn't say anything about not driving or fitting in a Fit. Don't put words in people's mouths. I don't think the CX-5 is the same class as an "8,000lb SUV"; it's 3200 lbs, and relatively small.

Jack

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2014, 06:52:23 AM »
Does the "Mazda rust" issue also apply to Miatas/MX-5s?

Cwadda

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2014, 06:57:18 AM »
While you may be seeing rust on the older Fits, beware that Mazda is notorious for rust. I once went to look at a 6 year old Protege that looked nice from the outside but all door jambs, rockers, and floors were spongy. The seller excuse? "Mazdas all do that." I didn't believe him, but after reading on it after the fact, seems that he was mostly correct.

Huh??? I've owned Mazdas exclusively since 1991 and have not had those issues. Do you live on the coast?

This is a good thread for me. I bought a 2010 Mazda 3 and it is 11 months from paid for on an interest free loan. I have considered selling it like the OP, but it is low mileage (45,000) and I know its ultra-reliable history, whereas if I buy something used I'll take a significant risk of buying someone else's lemon. The cautious part of me is saying let this be water under the dam and drive it like I do all my Mazdas - for years and years. The next vehicle, which should be years from now, can be used instead of new. Anyone else relatively new to Mustachianism in the same boat?

For OP, I like Mazdas a lot. My Mazda3 has been very reliable to me so far.

Just out of curiosity what do you get for gas on your Mazda3? I get about 27 mpg combined and I have an '07 Mazda3.

SpicyMcHaggus

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2014, 09:20:20 AM »
Does the "Mazda rust" issue also apply to Miatas/MX-5s?

Not as much so, but i would still poke all the under areas with a screwdriver if I was shopping for one.

neo von retorch

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2014, 12:53:54 PM »
Today might be the day...

So I plan on going from a 2013 Mazda CX-5 Sport Manual (FWD, 6-speed, 31mpg) with 36,100 miles to a 2008 Honda Fit Sport Manual (FWD, 5-speed, 33mpg) with 56,700 miles.

They suggested $15-16,000 in trade over email. There's nothing wrong with my car, so I plan to push for the top of that range. (I know it's a bit more mustachian to sell yourself, but I'll be getting a full tax break on the purchase this way, and I've dealt with selling a car myself a few times before, and I'm just not up for the stress!)

And they are asking $10k, which is a little lower than KBB/NADA and slightly higher than Edmunds.

I actually plan on talking about the trade first, after my test drive, and once I get that nailed down, try for about $300 off the asking price (about what any salesman can manage without "consulting" with management.)

okashira

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2014, 01:22:12 PM »
Today might be the day...

So I plan on going from a 2013 Mazda CX-5 Sport Manual (FWD, 6-speed, 31mpg) with 36,100 miles to a 2008 Honda Fit Sport Manual (FWD, 5-speed, 33mpg) with 56,700 miles.

They suggested $15-16,000 in trade over email. There's nothing wrong with my car, so I plan to push for the top of that range. (I know it's a bit more mustachian to sell yourself, but I'll be getting a full tax break on the purchase this way, and I've dealt with selling a car myself a few times before, and I'm just not up for the stress!)

And they are asking $10k, which is a little lower than KBB/NADA and slightly higher than Edmunds.

I actually plan on talking about the trade first, after my test drive, and once I get that nailed down, try for about $300 off the asking price (about what any salesman can manage without "consulting" with management.)

Are you OK with liability only on a 10K car?
I would aim for a cheaper car, but it's still a pretty positive trade overall.
Can you bring someone with negotiation experience? I bet you can get an extra $1500+ out of the deal.
Be ready to walk.

SpicyMcHaggus

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2014, 01:40:42 PM »
Sounds like you're getting OUT of a larger, less reliable Mazda in favor of a vehicle you like more and should serve your needs.  I think you should go forward. I recently did the same, selling a 2011 Nissan Frontier and purchasing first a 2006 Saab (sold for $1k profit), and then a $2300 4cyl Saab. I've done some work to it and will sell it around $3300. Then buy an AWD Audi sedan and some snow tires around $8,000.  I'm a hobbyist mechanic though, Euro cars are typically not so mustachian.

neo von retorch

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2014, 01:44:05 PM »
I am undecided with liability at $10k but... FYI my 1 year premium on the CX-5 with full collision coverage is $542. I haven't asked how much I'll save with the Fit, or with no collision but I'm curious how much I could save with those changes.

I don't think there's anyone I could bring with such experience, beyond my own.

NADA trade on the CX-5 is $16,650, so I hope to lean on that. Beyond that, if you go to Cars.com and search for retail asking price of cars like mine - it's super rare but most places want $18-19k (with just a few less miles on them.)

As for the Fit, I haven't found any with this low of mileage in a 2007-2008, yet the price is decent.

Of course, all the leverage is in my willingness to walk away.

CarDude

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2014, 02:55:53 PM »
From a car safety perspective (because that's what I do), I wouldn't go all the way to the Fit; I'd get an Accord or a Civic, in that order. You can get better mileage with a Civic than with a Fit if you're simply looking at mpg, and the Civic will be a safer vehicle. The Accord would be even safer than the Civic, but the mileage will be worse. Actually, the CX-5 will get better mileage unless you're looking at the newest Accords.

neo von retorch

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2014, 10:17:32 PM »
Bought the Fit. $16,000 for CX-5. $9843 for Fit. After fees, netted $5950.

I owned a Fit for 4 years and am happy to return to it! The Civic is too small for me (more so than the Fit!) and the Accord is just impractical (worse mileage, no hatchback, too expensive.)

avongil

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2014, 10:32:45 AM »
Sounds good!!!  Happier + money, can't go wrong.

okashira

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2014, 10:56:13 AM »
Congrats. I don't normally say congrats on a car purchase, but in this case I am congratulating you on a mustachian move.

I gotta say, the insurance you had on your CX5 full coverage is less then I pay for liability only (not even uninsured) on my small hatchback. Grumbles.

How does insurance look on the fit?

Jack

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2014, 11:07:33 AM »
I gotta say, the insurance you had on your CX5 full coverage is less then I pay for liability only (not even uninsured) on my small hatchback. Grumbles.

How does insurance look on the fit?

Sometimes smaller or cheaper cars are more expensive to insure because they're driven (on average) by younger, more dangerous drivers. Go get insurance quotes for a $60k, 500hp Chevrolet Corvette (mostly driven by gray-haired office workers having mid-life crises) and a $30k, 300hp Subaru WRX STi (mostly driven by 20-somethings who play way too much Gran Turismo), for example.

lackofstache

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2014, 01:11:29 PM »
I gotta say, the insurance you had on your CX5 full coverage is less then I pay for liability only (not even uninsured) on my small hatchback. Grumbles.

How does insurance look on the fit?

Sometimes smaller or cheaper cars are more expensive to insure because they're driven (on average) by younger, more dangerous drivers. Go get insurance quotes for a $60k, 500hp Chevrolet Corvette (mostly driven by gray-haired office workers having mid-life crises) and a $30k, 300hp Subaru WRX STi (mostly driven by 20-somethings who play way too much Gran Turismo), for example.

Corvette Z06=$77.77/mo, Subaru WRX AWD=$61.50 for me... just fyi.

neo von retorch

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2014, 01:24:55 PM »
Can we please not mention Corvettes? I'm trying to quell car lust here ;-)

Still waiting to hear back from my agent on how much my insurance will change... but if you want to really hate me for low rates, when I first switch to Donegal in ~2008, I had a 2007 Honda Fit and I paid $385 for ONE YEAR full coverage. I think it's gone up since then... but maybe since it's now an "older" car worth less money, it'll be somewhat close to that.

Jack

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2014, 01:51:00 PM »
Sometimes smaller or cheaper cars are more expensive to insure because they're driven (on average) by younger, more dangerous drivers. Go get insurance quotes for a $60k, 500hp Chevrolet Corvette (mostly driven by gray-haired office workers having mid-life crises) and a $30k, 300hp Subaru WRX STi (mostly driven by 20-somethings who play way too much Gran Turismo), for example.

Corvette Z06=$77.77/mo, Subaru WRX AWD=$61.50 for me... just fyi.

You compared the "extra-fast" (650 hp) Corvette with the "regular" WRX, which evens out the demographics a little. Try it with the base-model (i.e., non-Z06) Corvette vs. the WRX STi.

neo von retorch

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2014, 01:54:00 PM »
Wait, what year Z06? ;-) That's important because the (not yet available to purchase) 2015 is 650HP but the C6 Z06 was 505. And the C5 Z06 was 405HP. Which is only 178HP more than a WRX. (The STi really closes that gap.)
« Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 02:18:42 PM by neogodless »

neo von retorch

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Re: 2013 CX-5 Paid Off - sell and buy older car?
« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2014, 11:16:34 AM »
So... FYI insurance on my 2008 Honda Fit Sport is $490/year for full coverage from Donegal. ($630 from State Farm.)

That's $40.83 / month.