Author Topic: 2003 Civic with worn out key/ignition- now new Honda purchase negotiation  (Read 3155 times)

MayDay

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My Civic is a 2003 with 210k miles. It's given me very little trouble and I was hoping to keep it for several more years. And we just bought new snow tires and regular tires for it :( (yes I know, sunk cost).

It needs a new ignition. The key is worn out. We have an inexpensive small shop we use for everything (and absolutely no chance of doing the work ourselves so don't waste any effort suggesting that). They quoted us a minimum of 1200$, and said we might consider the dealership instead, as they may be cheaper.

Covid naturally throws a wrench in this. Dealer is a 20 minute drive of I can even get the car to start (spent two hours stuck at a rural state park the other night trying to get it to start before I eventually succeeded and got it going). 

H and I both work FT and he is working long hours and has to drive in. I have to drive in once a week and need a working car for other stuff as h works long days and weekends (he is in PPE manufacturing so time has no meaning at the moment, he stays and goes in as needed to keep the line running).

WWYD? Fix it? Get quotes (maybe over the phone)? Time for a new car? We can pay cash for a car but would rather not in the current economic climate.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2020, 06:05:29 PM by MayDay »

Car Jack

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Re: 2003 Civic with worn out key/ignition
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2020, 10:28:14 AM »
Sorry, but this is dead easy.  It's why old Hondas are so easy to steal.

Remove the plastic covers on the steering column (2 screws).

Take a dremmel and cut a slot into the screw head for the collar around the ignition switch.

Unplug the ignition switch connectors.  Cut the zip ties to free and move it away.

Use a flat head screw driver and unscrew the collar.

Remove the entire ignition switch.

From a junkyard, get an ignition switch assembly with the key.  Probably $10 at a pick and pull.  Bring home and install.

I could do one of these in under 1 minute.  Literally.  I used to have a Honda racecar and was buying parts cars constantly, selling un-needed parts and keeping what I needed.  I've done this to dozens of cars.

Or pay someone $1200 if you must.

Samuel

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Re: 2003 Civic with worn out key/ignition
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2020, 11:02:14 AM »
Or you could just finish punching out the ignition like a car thief and just keep a flat head screwdriver in the car to start it. And buy a Club lock for the steering wheel...

Car Jack's plan is probably better, though.

MayDay

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Re: 2003 Civic with worn out key/ignition
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2020, 11:13:14 AM »
Y'all I tried.

I am not fixing it myself and I'm also not going to risk getting continually stranded.

My question is not how to fix it. It's would you pay someone to fix it or buy a new one.

I'm currently at the dealership getting it checked and will talk to a salesperson while I'm here.


chemistk

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Re: 2003 Civic with worn out key/ignition
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2020, 11:41:53 AM »
$1200 is absurd. The only reason that should cost $1200 is if they're also replacing all the door locks to match a new key.

The physical repair takes 10 minutes, judging on the YouTube tutorials.

Looking the part up on RockAuto, a new cylinder itself is about $280. Figure the OEM part from Honda will be closer to $400.

After replacement, the key needs to be programmed to the car and that's it.

I would imagine the dealer would be much, much, much cheaper.

If you know someone who is handy and willing, you could pay them to do it with the aforementioned junkyard (or eBay) part for probably under $100. All you would need to do is make sure you find a way to get the key programmed to the car.

Definitely not worth scrapping the car over!

Dicey

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Re: 2003 Civic with worn out key/ignition
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2020, 12:18:35 PM »
Y'all I tried.

I am not fixing it myself and I'm also not going to risk getting continually stranded.

My question is not how to fix it. It's would you pay someone to fix it or buy a new one.

I'm currently at the dealership getting it checked and will talk to a salesperson while I'm here.
Bwah Ha Ha! Anyone want to take bets on what the salesperson advocates?

To OP: You literally have nothing to lose if you watch a YT video or six but a few minutes of your precious time. Imagine how proud you're going to feel when you figure this out on your own. Every time you handle that shiny new key, you're going to hear a little cha-ching that sounds like a slot machine. In fact, it might be a big cha-ching.

terran

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Re: 2003 Civic with worn out key/ignition
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2020, 12:23:13 PM »
I don't think I'd pay $1200 to fix anything on a car of that age/mileage (we had that car though, it's a good car). I'd be tempted to try the DIY fix. Or the "hotwire" method. That would be badass and the worst that happens is it gets stolen.

Dicey

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Re: 2003 Civic with worn out key/ignition
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2020, 12:34:36 PM »
I don't think I'd pay $1200 to fix anything on a car of that age/mileage (we had that car though, it's a good car). I'd be tempted to try the DIY fix. Or the "hotwire" method. That would be badass and the worst that happens is it gets stolen.
Mmmm, that's what the "Club" is for, lol...

terran

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Re: 2003 Civic with worn out key/ignition
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2020, 12:37:37 PM »
I don't think I'd pay $1200 to fix anything on a car of that age/mileage (we had that car though, it's a good car). I'd be tempted to try the DIY fix. Or the "hotwire" method. That would be badass and the worst that happens is it gets stolen.
Mmmm, that's what the "Club" is for, lol...

That works too. Although, honestly how many people are going around inspecting ignitions to see if they've been tampered with and might be slightly easier to steal?

ChpBstrd

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Re: 2003 Civic with worn out key/ignition
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2020, 12:48:23 PM »
When you call the dealership to ask for a quote, ask for the prices with you supplying your own part OR with them supplying the part. As others point out, it will be cheaper if you can mail-order the part and then pay them to install/program it.

Try to get multiple quotes. Let the phone do the walking/driving. Good luck.

Dicey

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Re: 2003 Civic with worn out key/ignition
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2020, 12:51:05 PM »
I don't think I'd pay $1200 to fix anything on a car of that age/mileage (we had that car though, it's a good car). I'd be tempted to try the DIY fix. Or the "hotwire" method. That would be badass and the worst that happens is it gets stolen.
Mmmm, that's what the "Club" is for, lol...

That works too. Although, honestly how many people are going around inspecting ignitions to see if they've been tampered with and might be slightly easier to steal?
In my area, the probability is fairly high and that probability is only going to increase as this pandemic endures.

MayDay

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Re: 2003 Civic with worn out key/ignition
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2020, 01:09:02 PM »
Update: dealer wanted 1200 too.

Also I forgot that the engine is seriously leaking oil.

I drove a civic and insight and they were both fine. I really don't care about cars (thus the 2003 civic) so I am not easily swayed by salespeople on car buying. If I can get the car to start I will drive home and do internet research and get quotes from various dealers. Right now I am stuck in the dealership parking lot as it once more won't start.

ChpBstrd

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Re: 2003 Civic with worn out key/ignition
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2020, 01:44:18 PM »
$46.43

https://www.ebay.com/itm/253971968587

Sounds like you have no choice but to DIY.

MilesTeg

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Re: 2003 Civic with worn out key/ignition
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2020, 02:04:36 PM »
Update: dealer wanted 1200 too.

Also I forgot that the engine is seriously leaking oil.

I drove a civic and insight and they were both fine. I really don't care about cars (thus the 2003 civic) so I am not easily swayed by salespeople on car buying. If I can get the car to start I will drive home and do internet research and get quotes from various dealers. Right now I am stuck in the dealership parking lot as it once more won't start.

This is called a "go away" price. They don't want to do the work for a reasonable price, because it would not be as profitable as other work, so they ask a ridiculous price to make you either go away or make the work profitable.

MayDay

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Re: 2003 Civic with worn out key/ignition
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2020, 06:05:10 PM »
Update: dealer wanted 1200 too.

Also I forgot that the engine is seriously leaking oil.

I drove a civic and insight and they were both fine. I really don't care about cars (thus the 2003 civic) so I am not easily swayed by salespeople on car buying. If I can get the car to start I will drive home and do internet research and get quotes from various dealers. Right now I am stuck in the dealership parking lot as it once more won't start.

This is called a "go away" price. They don't want to do the work for a reasonable price, because it would not be as profitable as other work, so they ask a ridiculous price to make you either go away or make the work profitable.

Interesting.  Makes sense because with that old of a car they can probably sense that I might buy :)


I looked at Corollas and Priuses (conveniently right next door) while waiting for a Lyft home.  Corolla is in the first year of a new design, so pass.  Prius seemed expensive compared to the Insight.

I emailed Honda dealers all over my metro area and ended up with nice quotes for the Insight.  The manual Civic Hatchback seems to be in quite high demand and it going for more than the Insight despite a lower MSRP.  I am going to noodle on it overnight and consult H.  He sadly (or happily for medical workers waiting for PPE) has to work another 12 hour day tomorrow as they attempt to get N95 certification for his line.  So I think I will purchase it without him ever seeing/driving. 

Prices are at 23,800 for the Sport hatchback manual civic and 23,100 for the Insight LX.  I haven't negotiated yet, those were the lowest of the initial offers.

MayDay

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Re: 2003 Civic with worn out key/ignition
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2020, 06:09:16 PM »
Y'all I tried.

I am not fixing it myself and I'm also not going to risk getting continually stranded.

My question is not how to fix it. It's would you pay someone to fix it or buy a new one.

I'm currently at the dealership getting it checked and will talk to a salesperson while I'm here.
Bwah Ha Ha! Anyone want to take bets on what the salesperson advocates?

To OP: You literally have nothing to lose if you watch a YT video or six but a few minutes of your precious time. Imagine how proud you're going to feel when you figure this out on your own. Every time you handle that shiny new key, you're going to hear a little cha-ching that sounds like a slot machine. In fact, it might be a big cha-ching.

Nothing except my sanity!  Can't put a price on that. 

The last time I followed this forum's advice on a car repair, I bought a new window motor online, took my door apart, and attempted to install it myself with the help of youtube videos which made it seem SO SIMPLE.  I ended up with a taken apart door and completely unable to get the motor installed.  I paid my very reasonable bare bones mechanic to both install the new motor, discover that wasn't even the problem, and then fix the actual problem. 

I am parenting 2 children, working full time, schooling 2 children, etc etc etc let me add 20 more things to that list.  I am not adding DIY car repairs.  I don't care how easy or cheap it is.  Beatrice has been hanging on by a thread and if her time has come, so be it. 

I

MilesTeg

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Re: 2003 Civic with worn out key/ignition
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2020, 06:35:46 PM »
Update: dealer wanted 1200 too.

Also I forgot that the engine is seriously leaking oil.

I drove a civic and insight and they were both fine. I really don't care about cars (thus the 2003 civic) so I am not easily swayed by salespeople on car buying. If I can get the car to start I will drive home and do internet research and get quotes from various dealers. Right now I am stuck in the dealership parking lot as it once more won't start.

This is called a "go away" price. They don't want to do the work for a reasonable price, because it would not be as profitable as other work, so they ask a ridiculous price to make you either go away or make the work profitable.

Interesting.  Makes sense because with that old of a car they can probably sense that I might buy :)


I looked at Corollas and Priuses (conveniently right next door) while waiting for a Lyft home.  Corolla is in the first year of a new design, so pass.  Prius seemed expensive compared to the Insight.

I emailed Honda dealers all over my metro area and ended up with nice quotes for the Insight.  The manual Civic Hatchback seems to be in quite high demand and it going for more than the Insight despite a lower MSRP.  I am going to noodle on it overnight and consult H.  He sadly (or happily for medical workers waiting for PPE) has to work another 12 hour day tomorrow as they attempt to get N95 certification for his line.  So I think I will purchase it without him ever seeing/driving. 

Prices are at 23,800 for the Sport hatchback manual civic and 23,100 for the Insight LX.  I haven't negotiated yet, those were the lowest of the initial offers.

Yep, companies give "go away" quotes for lots of reasons, a stealership probably realizes they might get you to buy a new car instead.

cchrissyy

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I wouldn't DIY anything about my car, but, if it is as easy as everybody says, surely you could hire somebody with mechanical/car skills to come do it at your house for less than $1k?

MayDay

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I wouldn't DIY anything about my car, but, if it is as easy as everybody says, surely you could hire somebody with mechanical/car skills to come do it at your house for less than $1k?

Probably but the car is now stuck at a dealership 20 minutes away. And how do I have any idea whether some random person from Craigslist is trustworthy? And get a functional car by tomorrow since places are closed Sunday, I have to work and school children on Mon and I need to drive to work on Tuesday.


Dicey

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I wouldn't DIY anything about my car, but, if it is as easy as everybody says, surely you could hire somebody with mechanical/car skills to come do it at your house for less than $1k?

Probably but the car is now stuck at a dealership 20 minutes away. And how do I have any idea whether some random person from Craigslist is trustworthy? And get a functional car by tomorrow since places are closed Sunday, I have to work and school children on Mon and I need to drive to work on Tuesday.
Seriously, no one is buying cars right now and no one is renting them either. RENT a damn car for a week or two or three, so you can take your time and make the best possible decision. Try Auto Slash for screaming rental deals or call your nearest local rental spot and speak to the manager. There are a glut of lease turn-ins right now, so you really should be able to find something good at a great price, if you play your cards right.

And @MayDay, I feel your pain. I'm so sorry that happened to you! The first time I replaced a burned out headlight, I watched couple of YT videos, bought the right bulbs, then proceeded to install it exactly the way the video showed. Except, my burned out headlight was on the other side of the car. Oopsie! Fortunately, I had purchased a set of two bulbs. I would not have been brave enough to try a window. Honestly, if you're a mom with young kids and a whole 'nother job, that's a whole different ballgame. Respect to you for even trying.

ChpBstrd

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$1200 is a better deal.

A new Civic will depreciate $2400 when you drive it off the lot, then another $3k in year 1. The increase in your insurance would cover the ignition plus a new engine, if necessary, after about the third year.

APowers

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If you don't want to diy, and you don't want to dump $1200 into a car that has other problems (serious oil leak! I don't blame you!)....

It sounds like replacement time. I likely wouldn't pay $1200 to repair a key issue on a vehicle that also has serious engine problems. *However*, it sounds like you're generally happy with the car (minus the given problems). This doesn't need to be a choice between a $1200 repair and a $20,000 new car; why not a $5,000 "new" car? Used 2nd/3rd generation Priuses tend to be quite inexpensive and reliable, as are Civics from that era. Why not one of those rather than one of the $23k vehicles you were looking at?

Also, what Dicey said. Rent or borrow a car for a week or two so that you can make a good, unrushed, quality decision.

MayDay

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$1200 is a better deal.

A new Civic will depreciate $2400 when you drive it off the lot, then another $3k in year 1. The increase in your insurance would cover the ignition plus a new engine, if necessary, after about the third year.

I know this is the standard line but it has not been true in my experience, with Honda's and Toyotas. A 2018 civic is listed at 19k. That was the best deal a car-liking friend of mine hunted up. (All these numbers included taxes and fees, the actual 2018 price was 17600 ish).

It is a good point that I could just rent a car for a week. I will see how much that costs.

MayDay

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AP Powers, basically because my experience with 5000$ cars is that sometimes they are fine and sometimes they are junk. We have a 2003 and a 2004 vehicle both with over 200k miles. Clearly we hold onto vehicles for a while :)  My goal is not to have the absolute cheapest transportation solution, it's to not have to think about transportation. Buying a 5000$ car, still having to deal with repairs, and then having to buy again in a couple years sounds like the absolute worst.

Additionally I have no skill or interest in determining if a 5000$ car is on its last legs and in need of major repair, or mechanically sound. Which means ever car I want to consider I need to go see, then make an appointment with my mechanic to take it to him, then pick it up and return it. Ahhhhhhh. This sounds horrible. 20k for another 17 years of not thinking about cars sounds like a great deal!

Dicey

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$1200 is a better deal.

A new Civic will depreciate $2400 when you drive it off the lot, then another $3k in year 1. The increase in your insurance would cover the ignition plus a new engine, if necessary, after about the third year.

I know this is the standard line but it has not been true in my experience, with Honda's and Toyotas. A 2018 civic is listed at 19k. That was the best deal a car-liking friend of mine hunted up. (All these numbers included taxes and fees, the actual 2018 price was 17600 ish).

It is a good point that I could just rent a car for a week. I will see how much that costs.
Yup. That was the standard line, but sometimes buying new is cheaper, depending on a number of factors, including dealer incentives. If you're a buy and hold owner, sometimes starting fresh with a new vehicle makes sense. DH bought his Ford F150 in 2002 for $20k all in, and it's still going strong. He is s painting contractor, so no truck hate, please. Also, JLCollins recently found the ssme thing and bought a brand new Suburu. You can read about it on his website.

APowers

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AP Powers, basically because my experience with 5000$ cars is that sometimes they are fine and sometimes they are junk. We have a 2003 and a 2004 vehicle both with over 200k miles. Clearly we hold onto vehicles for a while :)  My goal is not to have the absolute cheapest transportation solution, it's to not have to think about transportation. Buying a 5000$ car, still having to deal with repairs, and then having to buy again in a couple years sounds like the absolute worst.

Additionally I have no skill or interest in determining if a 5000$ car is on its last legs and in need of major repair, or mechanically sound. Which means ever car I want to consider I need to go see, then make an appointment with my mechanic to take it to him, then pick it up and return it. Ahhhhhhh. This sounds horrible. 20k for another 17 years of not thinking about cars sounds like a great deal!

Ok. Then go for it. It's not the most cost-effective option, but it sounds like money isn't an issue, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

MilesTeg

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AP Powers, basically because my experience with 5000$ cars is that sometimes they are fine and sometimes they are junk. We have a 2003 and a 2004 vehicle both with over 200k miles. Clearly we hold onto vehicles for a while :)  My goal is not to have the absolute cheapest transportation solution, it's to not have to think about transportation. Buying a 5000$ car, still having to deal with repairs, and then having to buy again in a couple years sounds like the absolute worst.

Additionally I have no skill or interest in determining if a 5000$ car is on its last legs and in need of major repair, or mechanically sound. Which means ever car I want to consider I need to go see, then make an appointment with my mechanic to take it to him, then pick it up and return it. Ahhhhhhh. This sounds horrible. 20k for another 17 years of not thinking about cars sounds like a great deal!

As long as you keep the car 15+ year/200k, the cost difference becomes all but irrelevant. If buying a car now doesn't impact your overall financial goals, then it's a fine option.

I've nursed old vehicles along for years with repairs like you mention. If I were hard up, I'd do it again in a heart beat. Otherwise I like to save my wrenching for fun projects, not keeping a utility vehicle on the road.

Many people on this forum treat the purchase of a car (and car ownership in general) as a moral failing rather than just a not necessarily optimal or high utility financial decision. As long as you understand and accept the financial trade off, just tune out that garbage.

alsoknownasDean

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You sound like you've made the decision already.

Enjoy your new car. Now negotiate hard on price, times are tough for the dealers.

Hyundai, Kia and Mazda make decent cars too, worth a look.

A 17 year old car with 210,000 miles. It has done it's duty. I'm sure someone could get it going again with parts from the junkyard and drive it or flip on CL. But if you don't want to do that and just want something else, fair enough.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 02:40:45 AM by alsoknownasDean »

HipGnosis

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Someone gave you the price and link of/to the ignition...
Why not have your "very reasonable bare bones mechanic" install one??

mm1970

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Re: 2003 Civic with worn out key/ignition
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2020, 02:02:07 PM »
Update: dealer wanted 1200 too.

Also I forgot that the engine is seriously leaking oil.

I drove a civic and insight and they were both fine. I really don't care about cars (thus the 2003 civic) so I am not easily swayed by salespeople on car buying. If I can get the car to start I will drive home and do internet research and get quotes from various dealers. Right now I am stuck in the dealership parking lot as it once more won't start.

This is called a "go away" price. They don't want to do the work for a reasonable price, because it would not be as profitable as other work, so they ask a ridiculous price to make you either go away or make the work profitable.

Interesting.  Makes sense because with that old of a car they can probably sense that I might buy :)


I looked at Corollas and Priuses (conveniently right next door) while waiting for a Lyft home.  Corolla is in the first year of a new design, so pass.  Prius seemed expensive compared to the Insight.

I emailed Honda dealers all over my metro area and ended up with nice quotes for the Insight.  The manual Civic Hatchback seems to be in quite high demand and it going for more than the Insight despite a lower MSRP.  I am going to noodle on it overnight and consult H.  He sadly (or happily for medical workers waiting for PPE) has to work another 12 hour day tomorrow as they attempt to get N95 certification for his line.  So I think I will purchase it without him ever seeing/driving. 

Prices are at 23,800 for the Sport hatchback manual civic and 23,100 for the Insight LX.  I haven't negotiated yet, those were the lowest of the initial offers.
This is interesting.  We have an 09 Civic and keep getting emails from the Honda dealer "your car is in demand, why don't you upgrade??"

One of my  best old friends is still driving her 1994 Civic.  I kid you not.  Those things will really really last.  I'd be tempted to fix it myself if my husband had any interest in doing it with me. 

(But I'm personally overwhelmed right now with FT work at home and 2 kids that need help with schooling and fuck I wouldn't really bother right now, unless I tried to negotiate with a dealer and they got annoying.)

MilesTeg

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Re: 2003 Civic with worn out key/ignition
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2020, 03:28:47 PM »
Update: dealer wanted 1200 too.

Also I forgot that the engine is seriously leaking oil.

I drove a civic and insight and they were both fine. I really don't care about cars (thus the 2003 civic) so I am not easily swayed by salespeople on car buying. If I can get the car to start I will drive home and do internet research and get quotes from various dealers. Right now I am stuck in the dealership parking lot as it once more won't start.

This is called a "go away" price. They don't want to do the work for a reasonable price, because it would not be as profitable as other work, so they ask a ridiculous price to make you either go away or make the work profitable.

Interesting.  Makes sense because with that old of a car they can probably sense that I might buy :)


I looked at Corollas and Priuses (conveniently right next door) while waiting for a Lyft home.  Corolla is in the first year of a new design, so pass.  Prius seemed expensive compared to the Insight.

I emailed Honda dealers all over my metro area and ended up with nice quotes for the Insight.  The manual Civic Hatchback seems to be in quite high demand and it going for more than the Insight despite a lower MSRP.  I am going to noodle on it overnight and consult H.  He sadly (or happily for medical workers waiting for PPE) has to work another 12 hour day tomorrow as they attempt to get N95 certification for his line.  So I think I will purchase it without him ever seeing/driving. 

Prices are at 23,800 for the Sport hatchback manual civic and 23,100 for the Insight LX.  I haven't negotiated yet, those were the lowest of the initial offers.
This is interesting.  We have an 09 Civic and keep getting emails from the Honda dealer "your car is in demand, why don't you upgrade??"

One of my  best old friends is still driving her 1994 Civic.  I kid you not.  Those things will really really last.  I'd be tempted to fix it myself if my husband had any interest in doing it with me. 

(But I'm personally overwhelmed right now with FT work at home and 2 kids that need help with schooling and fuck I wouldn't really bother right now, unless I tried to negotiate with a dealer and they got annoying.)

The "your car is demand!" bullshit is a way to lure you in to screw you over on a trade-in. Dealers LOVE purchases with trade-ins, it gives them ultimate flexibility in the screwing-you-over department.

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With Craigslist, Facebook marketplace, Letgo, Ebay, etc. it has never been easier to buy a used car. For the price of the "accessory package" on a new car OR the sales tax (your pick for purposes of this comparison) you could have something that might last you a year or two before its first major repair, and save shatloads of money by being on liability-only insurance during that time and costing nearly zilch in property taxes.

For the price of the depreciation you suffer driving a new car off the lot, you could have a car twice this good that will last you 3-5 years, saving a pile of money on insurance, depreciation, and taxes in the meantime.

For the first year total cost of ownership for that new car, you're in the sub-100k miles and under-10-years old range, owned outright instead of making payments. Some say this is the sweet spot of economical ownership and convenience.

Zamboni

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Hi MayDay! I feel you on not wanting car hassle.

I was just recently looking up used cars with my daughter. Shiny clean Prius with around 50-70K miles for $10-12K? There are gazillions of them for sale in my local area, and the supply keeps going up and up and up from what i can see. You can narrow by color and still have tons of choices. Most are at dealerships. Buyer's market in cars right now, as others pointed out. I agree that a $5K car can be pretty sketch (although I recently bought a $3K prius that I drove for several years without problems), but a $10-12K used small car is typically pretty sweet.

It's kind of like wine: a $3-5 bottle is hit or miss, to be generous, but a $10-12 bottle is WAAAY better tasting most of the time.

Nothing wrong with buying new, but autotrader.com is your friend as well.

ChpBstrd

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Hi MayDay! I feel you on not wanting car hassle.

I was just recently looking up used cars with my daughter. Shiny clean Prius with around 50-70K miles for $10-12K? There are gazillions of them for sale in my local area, and the supply keeps going up and up and up from what i can see. You can narrow by color and still have tons of choices. Most are at dealerships. Buyer's market in cars right now, as others pointed out. I agree that a $5K car can be pretty sketch (although I recently bought a $3K prius that I drove for several years without problems), but a $10-12K used small car is typically pretty sweet.

It's kind of like wine: a $3-5 bottle is hit or miss, to be generous, but a $10-12 bottle is WAAAY better tasting most of the time.

Nothing wrong with buying new, but autotrader.com is your friend as well.

$5k will buy a fairly nice and reliable subcompact economy car.
$5k will also buy a luxury truck or SUV that is completely worn out and will cost thousands per year in repairs.

MilesTeg

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Hi MayDay! I feel you on not wanting car hassle.

I was just recently looking up used cars with my daughter. Shiny clean Prius with around 50-70K miles for $10-12K? There are gazillions of them for sale in my local area, and the supply keeps going up and up and up from what i can see. You can narrow by color and still have tons of choices. Most are at dealerships. Buyer's market in cars right now, as others pointed out. I agree that a $5K car can be pretty sketch (although I recently bought a $3K prius that I drove for several years without problems), but a $10-12K used small car is typically pretty sweet.

It's kind of like wine: a $3-5 bottle is hit or miss, to be generous, but a $10-12 bottle is WAAAY better tasting most of the time.

Nothing wrong with buying new, but autotrader.com is your friend as well.

$5k will buy a fairly nice and reliable subcompact economy car.
$5k will also buy a luxury truck or SUV that is completely worn out and will cost thousands per year in repairs.

Looking at craigslist, $5k will buy a ~15 year old toyota or honda sedan or hatch with ~150k miles.

If I'm driving a 15 year old car with 150k+ miles, it's a car I have made sure has been properly maintained because I am the original owner (or the second owner with nearly all of those years in my hands).

OR, I'm hard up and a such a vehicle is the only vehicle I can afford. Otherwise, it's not worth it.

mm1970

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Quote
The "your car is demand!" bullshit is a way to lure you in to screw you over on a trade-in. Dealers LOVE purchases with trade-ins, it gives them ultimate flexibility in the screwing-you-over department.

Yeah, it's funny because the 09 Honda is a baby (maybe 70k miles on it?)  The car we will replace is the 2006 Matrix, with 150k miles on it.

But not anytime soon.  My husband is getting tired of it's idiosyncracies, but it's my car anyway.  And I've driven it 4 times since mid March.

ChpBstrd

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Hi MayDay! I feel you on not wanting car hassle.

I was just recently looking up used cars with my daughter. Shiny clean Prius with around 50-70K miles for $10-12K? There are gazillions of them for sale in my local area, and the supply keeps going up and up and up from what i can see. You can narrow by color and still have tons of choices. Most are at dealerships. Buyer's market in cars right now, as others pointed out. I agree that a $5K car can be pretty sketch (although I recently bought a $3K prius that I drove for several years without problems), but a $10-12K used small car is typically pretty sweet.

It's kind of like wine: a $3-5 bottle is hit or miss, to be generous, but a $10-12 bottle is WAAAY better tasting most of the time.

Nothing wrong with buying new, but autotrader.com is your friend as well.

$5k will buy a fairly nice and reliable subcompact economy car.
$5k will also buy a luxury truck or SUV that is completely worn out and will cost thousands per year in repairs.

Looking at craigslist, $5k will buy a ~15 year old toyota or honda sedan or hatch with ~150k miles.

If I'm driving a 15 year old car with 150k+ miles, it's a car I have made sure has been properly maintained because I am the original owner (or the second owner with nearly all of those years in my hands).

OR, I'm hard up and a such a vehicle is the only vehicle I can afford. Otherwise, it's not worth it.

You might be overlooking a lot of cars with at least 50k low-maintenance miles left in them. My search (min year = 2010, max mileage = 100k, max price = $5k) revealed the following, not including all the Ford Focuses out there or anything with a problem declared in the ad:

2013 Chrysler 200, 66k, $4300
2012 Nissan Altima, 91k, $3890
2011 Buick Regal, 97k, $4200
2010 Saturn Outlook, 99k, $3900
2012 Ford Fusion, 92k, $4999

One can expect the models listed above to last until about 150k before you're likely to have major trouble. Yes, a Honda or Toyota would go 200k before major trouble, but that's also why they are outrageously expensive as used cars. Either way, a person driving 10k miles per year gets 5 years of transportation. 

In any case, brand selection is no reason to commit financial harakin by running to the new car dealer.

MilesTeg

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Hi MayDay! I feel you on not wanting car hassle.

I was just recently looking up used cars with my daughter. Shiny clean Prius with around 50-70K miles for $10-12K? There are gazillions of them for sale in my local area, and the supply keeps going up and up and up from what i can see. You can narrow by color and still have tons of choices. Most are at dealerships. Buyer's market in cars right now, as others pointed out. I agree that a $5K car can be pretty sketch (although I recently bought a $3K prius that I drove for several years without problems), but a $10-12K used small car is typically pretty sweet.

It's kind of like wine: a $3-5 bottle is hit or miss, to be generous, but a $10-12 bottle is WAAAY better tasting most of the time.

Nothing wrong with buying new, but autotrader.com is your friend as well.

$5k will buy a fairly nice and reliable subcompact economy car.
$5k will also buy a luxury truck or SUV that is completely worn out and will cost thousands per year in repairs.

Looking at craigslist, $5k will buy a ~15 year old toyota or honda sedan or hatch with ~150k miles.

If I'm driving a 15 year old car with 150k+ miles, it's a car I have made sure has been properly maintained because I am the original owner (or the second owner with nearly all of those years in my hands).

OR, I'm hard up and a such a vehicle is the only vehicle I can afford. Otherwise, it's not worth it.

You might be overlooking a lot of cars with at least 50k low-maintenance miles left in them. My search (min year = 2010, max mileage = 100k, max price = $5k) revealed the following, not including all the Ford Focuses out there or anything with a problem declared in the ad:

2013 Chrysler 200, 66k, $4300
2012 Nissan Altima, 91k, $3890
2011 Buick Regal, 97k, $4200
2010 Saturn Outlook, 99k, $3900
2012 Ford Fusion, 92k, $4999

One can expect the models listed above to last until about 150k before you're likely to have major trouble. Yes, a Honda or Toyota would go 200k before major trouble, but that's also why they are outrageously expensive as used cars. Either way, a person driving 10k miles per year gets 5 years of transportation. 

In any case, brand selection is no reason to commit financial harakin by running to the new car dealer.

And how many of those ~100k cars have up to date maintenance, including the usual big ticket maintenance items that come up at around 100k for most cars (timing, ball joints, rubber parts, major fluids, 3rd set of brakes, etc.)? You could easily need to drop several thousand more bucks into those vehicles to get their maintenance back on track.

How many of them have had their oil (and other fluids) changed properly for those 100k miles to prevent impossible-to-detect-without-dissembling pre-mature wear? How many of those cars have had regular oil changes, but used 100% dino oil or other out of spec oil because it was cheaper than the required grade? How many of those cars have been abused by owners that regularly don't let them get up to operating temp before driving them more than gingerly? How many of those cars have nice fresh looking brake fuild now, but previously had let that fluid acidify and attack all the metal components of the brake system in ways that only dissasembly will find? How many of those cars have had a knowledgeable owner that will take the plugs out every 20k miles or so to keep them from corroding/heat welding to the block (talk about a PITA and/or possibly very expensive repair)? I could go on.

Any well maintained car sold in the U.S. will last 150 to 200 or even more with little or no trouble. The problem is, well maintained cars are the exception, not the rule. I happily drive old/high mileage cars -- as long as I /know/ they have been properly maintained. Over a sane 15-20 year ownership cycle, the cost difference isn't much, especially if you stick to used vehicles that are only 2-3 years old.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 02:51:07 PM by MilesTeg »