Author Topic: 2 Job offers. Need to decide ASAP  (Read 2965 times)

Newjobwhat

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2 Job offers. Need to decide ASAP
« on: February 23, 2018, 08:39:45 AM »
What I thought would be a simple decision turned out t be a lot more complicated.

I have 2 job offers, one with my current company and one with a new one. My current company is a large, well established and very stable company. I have a great team and really enjoy working with them. I have no doubt that in 10 years they will still be a leader in their markets. The new company is a much smaller, niche company that just got new investors. They are looking to come in, clean things up, and sell the company in ~5 years.

New job
25 minute (driving) commute
$35k or so higher pay
Would lead my on team, which would be very good experience
Higher pressure and longer hours
The team seems capable and strong based on recruiting and interviews
Uncertainty about what happens when investors sell

New offer with current job
1 hr plus commute (driving) 3 days a week (work from home the other 2)
Broader career experience as I will switch out from my current division. I have been in finance 10+years and I would be joining the commercial team, with a promotion, for the companyís leading product. This will be one of the best opportunities in to transition to a new function.
I think very highly of the team Iíd be joining

The main draw for the new position is the shorter commute and higher pay. The downside is potentially getting pigeonholed in finance and having no job in 5 years. I doubt jobs will be so readily available in 5 years but of course that is just an assumption.

Iím very excited about switching roles and trying the commercial side, but driving that much 3x a week doesnít excite me (although better than the current 5x).

For whatever itís worth, my wife wants me to take the new job and I already verbally accepted it.

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

TexasRunner

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Re: 2 Job offers. Need to decide ASAP
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2018, 09:02:04 AM »
Lower commute for the win.

Thats a difference of 40 minutes (or more) EACH WAY.  If you are rich enough to afford that hour commute, why are you working?

40 minutes x 2 times each day x 3 days a week x 50 weeks a year

= 200 HOURS OF YOUR LIFE EVERY YEAR!!!!!1! 
THATS FIVE WEEKS OF VACATION EVERY YEAR!!


@ 20$/hour that is 4000$ worth your time.


Beyond that, at 50 mph, you are going to drive an extra 10000 MILES in a ROLLING THRONEROOM OF WASTEFULNESS, costing you an extra 5800.00$ IN USELESS FACE-PUNCHING EXPENSES!!!!1!!!!11!

Overall, that is 9,800$ each and every year that you drive the longer distance!

Or 816.66$ EVERY MONTH.

...

Beyond that, the new Job sounds more interesting regarding the leadership.  If you do an outlay of the exact hours, (since you said "Longer Hours"), that could very much change the dynamic.

In all seriousness, I used to do the Hour+ commute and it is a huge drain on every aspect of your life.  You don't realize it until you make a change, then its like a slap on the face.  Is there absolute certainty that you will be able to work from home those two days a week?  Is anyone else doing so?  If not, it is likely you would be pressured into going in five days instead of three.

Also, (ask me how I learned this), you need to get an average weekly number of hours written into your job description.  If its 45, fine.  If its 55, fine.  But get it in writing so everyone is on the same page.  Having your hours crawl up indefinitely to 60+ hours a week will ruin your life (and possibly your marriage).  Set the boundaries and stick to them.

Good luck, let us know what happens.  :)

If you want to clarify, other relevant details:
~ Exact driving distance A and B
~ Exact outlay of hours A and B
~ Career growth options A and B (It sounds like one is a management/leadership job, is that where you want to go?)
~ Which one sounds more fun?
~ How are the bosses (or how do they seems) at each one?
Etc
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 09:12:10 AM by TexasRunner »

MayDay

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Re: 2 Job offers. Need to decide ASAP
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2018, 09:22:38 AM »
Hmm. Tough one.

I'm inclined to stay at the current company. But the drive.

Do you think you'll like working from home? Could you do it 3 days a week?


robartsd

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Re: 2 Job offers. Need to decide ASAP
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2018, 09:55:34 AM »
Commute times:
Current job: 65 minutes x 2 way x 5 days = 650 minutes/week
New Company: 25 minutes x 2 way x 5 days = 250 minutes/week
Old Company: 65 minutes x 2 way x 3 days = 390 minutes/week

Your new role at old company saves you 260 minutes a week commuting. The offer at new company saves you 400 minutes a week in commute, but you expect extra hours (unspecified quantity), so may or may not improve work/life balance over your status quo.

How long do you project to FIRE under the new company scenario - $35k/yr grows to about $200k in 5 years if invested at 7%, so maybe uncertainty in 5 years aligns with FIRE freedom.

des999

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Re: 2 Job offers. Need to decide ASAP
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2018, 10:14:39 AM »
personally, I kind of have your new job at the same company.  I have an hour commute, I wfh 2 days per week.  I actually don't mind the drive, but looking at the numbers from TexasRunner are interesting.  But I love my job, and it's super easy and pays very well.

Also, based on his calculation, I don't work 50 weeks a year, I take 6 weeks vacation, plus lots of holidays, etc.. but I get the idea, it's a lot of driving.

I'd be more tempted to take the new job if I knew the extra money got me to FIRE in 5 years, or if I knew the hours wouldn't be too bad.  I am only schedule 37 hours a week, so for me to take a closer job that wanted me to work 50 hours a week changes the calculation quite a bit.

Tough call, but I'd probably stay.  Do you have a pension?  I do at my large company, so thought it might be in the decision.  Also, benefits may have to come in to play.

justchecking

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Re: 2 Job offers. Need to decide ASAP
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2018, 12:29:41 PM »
What you didn't include is your FIRE date.  If it was me I would jump at the chance to make an extra 35,000.  If I worked their for five years I would be ready to FIRE by the time they sold the company.  Not to mention the shorter commute.  Save the planet, your back and your leisure time.  New job hands down. 

couponvan

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Re: 2 Job offers. Need to decide ASAP
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2018, 01:39:02 PM »
Benefits and total salary come into play here as well as what state you live in.

Does new company have same 401(k) benefits? Are you fully vested in the 401(k) if you leave?

What percentage of your salary does the $35K represent?

Will additional salary amounts put you into AMT? (if so that $35K is only worth $18-$19K after tax) Will the additional income put you in a higher state income tax bracket?

What does their health plan look like? Is it comparable. Are the doctors you go to included on their insurance?

If you aren't loving a pure finance background now, you might want to take the Commercial opportunity. As a finance person, you are overhead. As a Commercial person, you are the money maker for the company. I've found that being in the money-making side of a company tends to feel better. (But that's just me.)

What is their vacation policy? (My current company gives me 6 weeks - that's hard to find at other places when you switch unless you negotiate for it.)

Newjobwhat

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Re: 2 Job offers. Need to decide ASAP
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2018, 01:44:46 PM »
Thanks for all the responses. Great to have more food for thought. The commute has taken a toll on me already. I drive a Volt so arguably the environmental impact is less but the time wasted inside a car and the other negative externalities are still there.

My fire date is ~9-10 years away so finding myself without a job in 5 years is definitely a concern, although I may just be too risk averse and overstating this risk.

My company just came back with a new offer, so the gap in base salary now is $15k instead of $35k. The rest of the benefits are comparable, but my current company has an excellent 401k program and extra bonus it is with Vanguard. New company pays higher bonuses instead of 401k contributions.

Whatís really attractive to me about staying is pursuing the new career path and broadening my experience. Is that worth the longer commute 3 days and lower pay? Still debating.

Once again, thank you all.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 01:46:58 PM by Newjobwhat »

robartsd

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Re: 2 Job offers. Need to decide ASAP
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2018, 01:56:51 PM »
Thanks for all the responses. Great to have more food for thought. The commute has taken a toll on me already. I drive a Volt so arguably the environmental impact is less but the time wasted inside a car and the other negative externalities are still there.

My fire date is ~9-10 years away so finding myself without a job in 5 years is definitely a concern, although I may just be too risk averse and overstating this risk.

My company just came back with a new offer, so the gap in base salary now is $15k instead of $35k. The rest of the benefits are comparable, but my current company has an excellent 401k program and extra bonus it is with Vanguard. New company pays higher bonuses instead of 401k contributions.

Whatís really attractive to me about staying is pursuing the new career path and broadening my experience. Is that worth the longer commute 3 days and lower pay? Still debating.

Once again, thank you all.
Telecommuting 2 days will reduce your commuting time by 260 minutes. At 140 minutes more commuting each week vs. unspecified longer hours, I'm leaning towards staying with the same company now that the pay gap is much smaller. It also aligns better with your career interests. How much have you considered moving closer?

TexasRunner

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Re: 2 Job offers. Need to decide ASAP
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2018, 02:08:18 PM »
You're making an extra 35k on top of your previous savings rate and $ number, but still only on track for FIRE in 9-10 years...?  Were you on track for 15-20 years before the raise?

Reverse Mathing that, it means your spending is pretty high or savings rate was pretty low before the raise.

It also might be worth doing a Case Study if your focus really is FIRE.... just a thought.


Examples:
https://networthify.com/calculator/earlyretirement?income=120000&initialBalance=200000&expenses=45000&annualPct=5&withdrawalRate=4
https://networthify.com/calculator/earlyretirement?income=85000&initialBalance=200000&expenses=45000&annualPct=5&withdrawalRate=4

couponvan

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Re: 2 Job offers. Need to decide ASAP
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2018, 02:40:45 PM »
At $15K difference, after tax and considering you drive a Volt and we're only talking about 140 minutes, I would stay, stay, stay. Then I would look into moving closer to the office while cutting expenses to improve your time to FIRE.

iluvzbeach

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Re: 2 Job offers. Need to decide ASAP
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2018, 08:57:17 AM »
No question about it, I would stay at current company. You donít dislike the company, they offer good benefits and stability, and are showing that there are opportunities for growth financially and developmentally. Personally, Iíd stick with the known vs. the unknown and potential risks. Working from home two days per week will be a huge improvement in your commute time and will make a big difference in your free time.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: 2 Job offers. Need to decide ASAP
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2018, 11:55:34 PM »
The new job had my vote until your update. Stick with the devil you know. Remember, your goal is FIRE in 9-10 years. Donít over complicate things.

Villanelle

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Re: 2 Job offers. Need to decide ASAP
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2018, 12:17:20 AM »
I'd likely go with the current company.  If the commute were 5 days instead of three, perhaps my answer would change.

Is moving an option? 

COEE

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Re: 2 Job offers. Need to decide ASAP
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2018, 06:26:12 AM »
If the gap is still 15k, after considering benefits, I'd probably go for the new job.  That's a grand a month after taxes!  Add to that a shorter commute and financially the new job is still way ahead.

5 years is a pretty long horizon.  Although, it is a small company by the sounds of it - and remember small companies can, and more often than not, fail.  If you're risk adverse to having to look for a new job while not having any income in the future, I'd steer clear.

Also, we've been throwing around numbers, but it doesn't sound like you've calculated which one comes ahead more financially.  Sit down and do the math.  How much is that drive really costing you?  How much do you expect in bonuses between the two?  How does that 401k change to numbers.  Have you compared healthcare costs?  Figure out which one is a better financial choice, then add non-financial impacts into a pro's / minus's type chart.  Then you can make decisions based on facts, not emotions.

Does your current company know you're considering another position with another company?  Have you let them know about the gap that's still there between a better base and a better bonus?

Still, a better base, with a better bonus structure, and a shorter commute - it is tough to say no to that kind of lifestyle increase regardless of job risk, IMO.

the_fixer

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Re: 2 Job offers. Need to decide ASAP
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2018, 07:29:42 AM »
Stick with your current company for the following reasons.

1. You can not count on bonuses they can come and go especially if they are trying to make the company look as profitable as possible to sell it.

2. While you are going to make more money at the new company you said that the hours will be longer so that eats into that difference. I know several people that jumped at the money only to find they are making less after working so many extra hours. Beyond that if you are putting in a bunch of extra hours it makes it harder to be good with money in my personal experience.

3. Stability is a nice thing, jobs searching costs money and unless you are looking to job hop several times in the next 5 or so years to grow your career / salary it probably does not make much sense to take the risk of having to find a new job if the company fails to live up to the expectations.

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chasesfish

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Re: 2 Job offers. Need to decide ASAP
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2018, 08:53:06 AM »
You have two good options, I see why it's such a difficult struggle.

Aside from the money, which job and team do ou want more?  You can always make money, but you can't get your time back

Newjobwhat

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Re: 2 Job offers. Need to decide ASAP
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2018, 09:43:47 AM »
Thanks again for all the thoughtful input.

I'm leaning towards staying with my company. The idea of switching out of finance is very appealing and sounds like a break from what I've been doing my whole career. Even though the new job comes with higher pay and shorter commute it also comes with more hours and stress. I really like and respect the team id be joining in my current company and I'm excited about broadening my background.

Given this, if I hadn't had already accepted the offer from the new company, i would definitely stay with my company. I need to navigate the process and pros & cons of reneging. I hate the idea of turning back on a promise, so maybe that will settle it.

the_fixer

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Re: 2 Job offers. Need to decide ASAP
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2018, 02:23:18 PM »
Been there done that. Had four job offers and accepted a job with a company and a fifth offer came in from the company that I really wanted.

I just called the company I accepted the job at and was honest with them that an offer came  in that I could not refuse.

They tried to offer me more money but I let them know it was not about the money and apologized.

As someone that has been in the hiring position it happens more than you would imagine.

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Case

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Re: 2 Job offers. Need to decide ASAP
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2018, 04:35:49 AM »
What I thought would be a simple decision turned out t be a lot more complicated.

I have 2 job offers, one with my current company and one with a new one. My current company is a large, well established and very stable company. I have a great team and really enjoy working with them. I have no doubt that in 10 years they will still be a leader in their markets. The new company is a much smaller, niche company that just got new investors. They are looking to come in, clean things up, and sell the company in ~5 years.

New job
25 minute (driving) commute
$35k or so higher pay
Would lead my on team, which would be very good experience
Higher pressure and longer hours
The team seems capable and strong based on recruiting and interviews
Uncertainty about what happens when investors sell

New offer with current job
1 hr plus commute (driving) 3 days a week (work from home the other 2)
Broader career experience as I will switch out from my current division. I have been in finance 10+years and I would be joining the commercial team, with a promotion, for the companyís leading product. This will be one of the best opportunities in to transition to a new function.
I think very highly of the team Iíd be joining

The main draw for the new position is the shorter commute and higher pay. The downside is potentially getting pigeonholed in finance and having no job in 5 years. I doubt jobs will be so readily available in 5 years but of course that is just an assumption.

Iím very excited about switching roles and trying the commercial side, but driving that much 3x a week doesnít excite me (although better than the current 5x).

For whatever itís worth, my wife wants me to take the new job and I already verbally accepted it.

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

higher pay + shorter commute seems like the no brainer here.  But you also didn't post the salary. 30k is a big difference is the average salary is 50k.  But 30k difference on average salary of 200k is not so big a deal.

No job in 5 years... unless you are confident about that sort of prediction (which only you could predict because there is little info given and you shouldn't put too much weight on internet advice), who can predict 5 years out on anything?