Author Topic: (UPDATE) Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!  (Read 7394 times)

Easye418

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(UPDATE) Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« on: November 17, 2015, 03:25:00 PM »
I have MBA in Finance.  Worked with big time CPG for past 4 years.  My current company (been here almost 8 months) loves me and they see it from the highest level; SVP of Sales, VP of Sales, my new boss, and my old boss. 

They brought on the new VP (my new boss) and they decided that the old Manager wasn't cutting it so they let her go.  They quickly let me know I was being promoted, but didn't have the details.  So I had to help craft it with my new VP.

Come to find out, I was doing the Managers role for the last 8 months (per job description)!  So I am just taking the role that I should of been in the entire time.

It doesn't matter how I found this out, but the Manager is making $110k + 10%.  She is an old timer, has probably 20+ years experience.  She was worthless, complete waste of money, she knew nothing, I can't believe she lasted 7 months.

I am an Analyst level employee (doing a Manager's job) and I get paid currently $70k with NO bonus.


Fill in the blanks:
Be insulted if you get offered $________
Be content if you get offered $________
Be ECSTATIC if you get offered $________

I know I should be happy regardless of what I get bumped to, but I want to be paid fairly. 

In my mind, my answers would look like
1.  Anything under $80k
2.  $80k-$85k
3.  Anything over $85k.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 10:00:48 AM by Easye418 »

Goldielocks

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2015, 03:59:31 PM »
She was probably red circled and in the firing range / contention for some time.  The position she was in (that you are doing) was not worth $110k to them.

I would expect $20k increase for manager jump -- IF you now have at least 5 people that report to you and you are responsible for hiring  / firing / performance on.  If this management job is just really a title to match your MBA and influence, then a bit lower.  Even if you are doing the work, you don't yet have the political network / influence at your company to pull in the larger salary -- yet!

One idea, is to ask for significant stock options, or pre-determine a bonus if you achieve a stretch milestone that is worth it to the company.   Most managers at very large firms can be more flexible handing out these than salary.  Also ask to be brought to the senior vp strategy or other meetings that your boss gets to go to -- to shadow your boss and learn quickly.  Huge career gold there.

Also,  if you plan a long career there, and the next promotion is  a long way off, be advised that you will only get minor (under 5%) increases for the next 8years...

Gerard

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2015, 04:00:47 PM »
How happy were you earning your current salary for the work you were doing, before you found this out?

Easye418

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2015, 04:19:16 PM »
She was probably red circled and in the firing range / contention for some time.  The position she was in (that you are doing) was not worth $110k to them.

I would expect $20k increase for manager jump -- IF you now have at least 5 people that report to you and you are responsible for hiring  / firing / performance on.  If this management job is just really a title to match your MBA and influence, then a bit lower.  Even if you are doing the work, you don't yet have the political network / influence at your company to pull in the larger salary -- yet!

One idea, is to ask for significant stock options, or pre-determine a bonus if you achieve a stretch milestone that is worth it to the company.   Most managers at very large firms can be more flexible handing out these than salary.  Also ask to be brought to the senior vp strategy or other meetings that your boss gets to go to -- to shadow your boss and learn quickly.  Huge career gold there.

Also,  if you plan a long career there, and the next promotion is  a long way off, be advised that you will only get minor (under 5%) increases for the next 8years...

No direct reports yet. Just title and official responsibilities. When I took my current role, my old boss got me to sign on saying promotion within 12-18 months. They saw my potential.

So my number expectations seem pretty fair? Private company. No stock.

How happy were you earning your current salary for the work you were doing, before you found this out?

Counting the days until my sign on bonus contract expires in March 2016.

I'd be very content at $85k plus 10%. It'd help speed my life up quicker.

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2015, 04:59:19 PM »
Hold on a minute?.. If your previous manager was making $110k +10% and your going to be doing the same job.. Why wouldn't you get the same?

Or do you need more experience?

Easye418

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2015, 07:02:47 PM »
Hold on a minute?.. If your previous manager was making $110k +10% and your going to be doing the same job.. Why wouldn't you get the same?

Or do you need more experience?

Well, the only difference is I have 4.5 years experience vs 25+ years experience. She is in her mid 50's. I'm 26.

I don't think she has her MBA either.

Absolutely worthless. She refused to touch "data". She sucked at everything the job required. She was a $110k party planner. It was embarrassing and frustrating because I was doing her job. My ex boss was pushing for this for a long time.

Hey, I'm all for $110k a year :). I would live at work if they wanted me too. I would absolute shred my student loans.

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2015, 07:52:52 PM »
Strongly recommend that you don't make the first move.  See what they are going to offer first.  Hopefully they will make a decent offer (I would be insulted by anything less than a 10% raise in your situation), and you can continue to negotiate up from there.  If you come in saying you'd be happy at 85k, they are either going to give you that, or (if they are idiots like my old employer) they are going to try to convince you to be happy with less.

And if they lowball you/screw around with you, keep your cv polished and your (virtual) rolodex spinning.  If they were willing to pay someone else $110k for a job they weren't doing properly, they should be willing to pay you that for actually doing it.  Maybe a slight discount for fewer years of experience. 

Good luck!

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2015, 08:13:24 PM »
Regardless of what they offer, negotiate as best as you can.  Read 'Secrets of Power Negotiating, 15th Anniversary Edition: Inside Secrets from a Master Negotiator' by Roger Dawson or 'Getting to Yes: Negotiating Agreement Without Giving In' by Roger Fisher and William L. Ury.  It will be good practice when you are actually responsible for other people of have to deal with other departments within the company.

When you get to a final number, if you are no happy, stay and do what we call in the software industry 'resume driven development'.  Basically you propose new projects or take on new work that will add value to your resume for future employers.  Do that and interview with other companies until you get an offer with the salary that you think is fair for your current skill set and position and hand in your two weeks notice.

This is a great opportunity to advance, even if it is just a title, and increase your market value, take advantage of it.

Easye418

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2015, 08:25:23 PM »
Great advice guys.

The good news is an old colleague wants me to work for him. If it comes in low, he will have his company hopefully make me a better offer.

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2015, 11:44:07 PM »
I would say if you firmly believe you can do the job as well or better then your old boss then tell them you'll do it for the same salary as they were paying her.

Make it $100k because I have less experience (but way more ability). So $100k now and $110k after you have proved yourself for a year.

In my experience I'll bet they will want you to do it for the same salary as they are paying you now until you have "proven yourself".. You can politely decline that offer!

They will almost certainly want to F with you, so start working on the resume and get a better offer in your hand.. then hand in your notice.. Of course you'll be prepared to stay but you want the full $110k now..:)

arebelspy

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2015, 12:35:39 AM »
Hold on a minute?.. If your previous manager was making $110k +10% and your going to be doing the same job.. Why wouldn't you get the same?

Or do you need more experience?

And not only that, but are they going to be hiring someone to do your old job?

Or did they cut from 2 people to 1 (i.e. her 110k salary + your 70k salary)?

If the latter, I'd definitely shoot for 100k+, they're still saving tons of money.  If they're bringing on someone else, maybe 90-100k.
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shotgunwilly

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2015, 08:26:30 AM »
I would want over $100k.  Say they offered 85k, I would politely counter, sighting the Managers role, your hard work, and comparable salaries and ask for 100K.  They will probably still feel like they got a $10k cut and will be happy.

Easye418

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2015, 10:57:15 AM »
I would say if you firmly believe you can do the job as well or better then your old boss then tell them you'll do it for the same salary as they were paying her.

Make it $100k because I have less experience (but way more ability). So $100k now and $110k after you have proved yourself for a year.

In my experience I'll bet they will want you to do it for the same salary as they are paying you now until you have "proven yourself".. You can politely decline that offer!

They will almost certainly want to F with you, so start working on the resume and get a better offer in your hand.. then hand in your notice.. Of course you'll be prepared to stay but you want the full $110k now..:)

I would take $100k in a heart  beat and be happy.

Hold on a minute?.. If your previous manager was making $110k +10% and your going to be doing the same job.. Why wouldn't you get the same?

Or do you need more experience?

And not only that, but are they going to be hiring someone to do your old job?

Or did they cut from 2 people to 1 (i.e. her 110k salary + your 70k salary)?

If the latter, I'd definitely shoot for 100k+, they're still saving tons of money.  If they're bringing on someone else, maybe 90-100k.

This is a great point, we added the VP, but lost the Manager and the Analyst.  This is an excellent point to bring up.

I would want over $100k.  Say they offered 85k, I would politely counter, sighting the Managers role, your hard work, and comparable salaries and ask for 100K.  They will probably still feel like they got a $10k cut and will be happy.

I was talking to my new boss today and he was saying he mentioned "it is crazy how much they are paying her and they need to flip flop your salaries".  I'll be happy with anything over $85k to be honest.  I may faint if they say $100k.

Guesl982374

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2015, 11:30:55 AM »
My current company (been here almost 8 months)

Come to find out, I was doing the Managers role for the last 8 months (per job description)!  So I am just taking the role that I should of been in the entire time.

Be careful not to get greedy. I am all for negotiating (it is literally my full time job) but you do have other interests here, particularly solidifying your experience at the higher "manager" level. You claim that you have been operating at the higher level for 8 months, but to anyone outside of the organization you probably wouldn't/couldn't get the "manager"-level equivalent easily because of lack of experience at that level as your job title said "Analyst". Your BATNA (Best Alternative To a Negotiated Agreement) is to most likely take an analysis job somewhere else, NOT a manager level job. I personally lived through 2 years of doing work at a higher level at roughly the same initial salary as yours (mid $70ks) until the company eventually gave me a 10% raise which was still significantly under market (Market rate was ~$125K). I left after two years with a ton of experience and have been making above market rate ever since.

My advice based on almost the exact situation is the following:

-Let them offer first, don't demand a number
-Keep the long term in mind at all times. You need the experience for 1-2 years, not the salary right away.
-Act disappointed (NOT insulted), if you get the number and it's below <$100K. Mention that you would have expected a little more. Then stop talking
-Try to get them to negotiate against themselves by having them take one second look at the compensation package, and I wouldn't provide a number unless it's a common "manager" job with easy market rate data (NOT what the old manager was getting paid). If you have market data, then say you thought that you would have gotten the 25% percentile (low end of the range to reflect minimal experience).
-If they don't negotiate, still take the job, even if its at the same $70K salary because in 1 to 1.5 years you should be able to go get $130K+ total comp somewhere else.
-If they treat you badly financially, don't get bitter, get the experience then get fairly compensated.

Fill in the blanks:
Be insulted disappointed if you get offered <10% raise
Be content if you get offered: no raise after trying to negotiate
Be ECSTATIC if you get offered: anything above 10%

Easye418

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2015, 11:43:22 AM »
My current company (been here almost 8 months)

Come to find out, I was doing the Managers role for the last 8 months (per job description)!  So I am just taking the role that I should of been in the entire time.

Be careful not to get greedy. I am all for negotiating (it is literally my full time job) but you do have other interests here, particularly solidifying your experience at the higher "manager" level. You claim that you have been operating at the higher level for 8 months, but to anyone outside of the organization you probably wouldn't/couldn't get the "manager"-level equivalent easily because of lack of experience at that level as your job title said "Analyst". Your BATNA (Best Alternative To a Negotiated Agreement) is to most likely take an analysis job somewhere else, NOT a manager level job. I personally lived through 2 years of doing work at a higher level at roughly the same initial salary as yours (mid $70ks) until the company eventually gave me a 10% raise which was still significantly under market (Market rate was ~$125K). I left after two years with a ton of experience and have been making above market rate ever since.

My advice based on almost the exact situation is the following:

-Let them offer first, don't demand a number
-Keep the long term in mind at all times. You need the experience for 1-2 years, not the salary right away.
-Act disappointed (NOT insulted), if you get the number and it's below <$100K. Mention that you would have expected a little more. Then stop talking
-Try to get them to negotiate against themselves by having them take one second look at the compensation package, and I wouldn't provide a number unless it's a common "manager" job with easy market rate data (NOT what the old manager was getting paid). If you have market data, then say you thought that you would have gotten the 25% percentile (low end of the range to reflect minimal experience).
-If they don't negotiate, still take the job, even if its at the same $70K salary because in 1 to 1.5 years you should be able to go get $130K+ total comp somewhere else.
-If they treat you badly financially, don't get bitter, get the experience then get fairly compensated.

Fill in the blanks:
Be insulted disappointed if you get offered <10% raise
Be content if you get offered: no raise after trying to negotiate
Be ECSTATIC if you get offered: anything above 10%

Thanks for this.  I have a hard time believing they will offer me $77k a year, but you never know.

Oh the days of BATNA from B School.

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2015, 04:14:26 PM »
Totally agree with what Liberty suggests.  More often than not, transitions in mid upper mgmt occur during Q4/ next year planning.  If they are penciling you in to be on next years team, you don't want to be clouding up your prospects.

Want the Job.  Follow Liberty's play calling.  Listen for other valuable "goodies" that may be offered- RSU's or others.  Wait for them to tell you the title, then ask what the HR salary bands are.

PS It is rare that a candidate knows others comp packages... even if you know, play the game as if you don't.  Old School rule of thumb- no good comes from knowing others comp plan.

Guesl982374

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2015, 07:41:38 AM »
Thanks for this.  I have a hard time believing they will offer me $77k a year, but you never know.

Oh the days of BATNA from B School.

Glad I could help.

I had a hard time when I was given the higher workload, the title, and a 0% (yes zero) raise to boot. All I am saying is be mentally prepared in case they low ball you. All it would take is some sort of incentive bonus at the VP or Sr. VP level where they get a % of salary saved, motivating them to offer you very little because they understand your alternative.

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2015, 11:07:13 AM »
Open the discussion by thanking them for the opportunity. Close with the same thing, regardless of the outcome. Beyond that, I agree with all of Liberty's advice, especially the contingent advice to "express disappointment, then stop talking" if you get a low offer.

If you do find yourself in a situation where they ask you to demonstrate success first, insist on measureable goals and certain time frames with a performance review within six months. Come prepared with some metrics you know you can hit. Look for them to give you x if you hit goals a, b and c. Probe for bigger stretch goals and write it into your performance documentation and promotion documentation.

In the meantime, you should always be looking for other opportunities. Get the experience and you'll be in a great position in a year or two.

ImCheap

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2015, 11:30:23 AM »
She was probably red circled and in the firing range / contention for some time.  The position she was in (that you are doing) was not worth $110k to them.

Let me help out a bit, maybe she was over 50. So they are looking for someone to do it for half the cash. Maybe she found out about evil cooperate and decided to be the smarter one of the group and still wanted to collect unemployment:)

http://finance.youngmoney.com/careers/get-fired-and-still-qualify-for-unemployment/

Quote
Ways to subtly be “let go”

The idea here is to make your workplace more uncomfortable when you’re there without alerting your employer that you are doing it on purpose.
•You can be subtly and sarcastically mean or cranky.
•Pretend that you don’t know how to do something. This works especially well if you are asked to do something new.
•Do just enough to scrape by.
•Work very, very slowly.
•Spend time forwarding “funny” emails.
•Treat work as your personal social club.
•Be constantly upset, angry, or depressed; anything but happy
•Have a lot of ongoing personal problems.

Ok the above is a little off the top!

Matumba

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2015, 11:45:18 AM »
110  is a good starting salary for an MBA,  even if it's not a top tier school.

Ask for that,  give or take,  and have damn good reasons to back it up,  such as the benefits of your work quantified in dollars.

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2015, 12:19:59 PM »
Two times in my career I felt under-compensated enough to not let it go. One time was a raise and the other was an internal promotion to manager. And in both cases I told them that at their proposed rate I would be forced to go look at the market. I stated that I was thankful for the opportunity but that I rate high marks on PAs and know that I am worth more and it is up to me to see that I am properly compensated.

In both cases they re evaluated and came back with more. These were two different companies and about 20 years apart in time span.

I hope you get the surprise of a lifetime and they give you 100+k! I had one of those back in the day with NO warning, in fact I thought I was in trouble. I was given a 16% raise and was promoted to lead of the group. At that time it was required that I make a certain percentage more than the highest paid person on the team. (funny how today that no longer applies).

 

Goldielocks

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2015, 09:59:13 PM »
110  is a good starting salary for an MBA,  even if it's not a top tier school.

Ask for that,  give or take,  and have damn good reasons to back it up,  such as the benefits of your work quantified in dollars.

This completely depends on your industry and region.  Taking advice like this is like getting medical advice over the Internet.

Our company with 15, 000 engineers and technologists and what not across 32 states would never pay this for a starting position...  Mba or no.

Easye418

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2015, 10:00:26 AM »
So after a month of waiting, here's what I got

They changed my salary effective 12/1/2015 from $70k to $75k.

They gave me a 10% bonus retro to my start date of 03/23/2015. We are going to pay out at 150% this year so that will feel roughly like a 10% bonus after proration so $7k gross. This pays out in March.

In March, I will get a merit and promotion increase. Minimum is 7%, max 11%. So that will get me up to $80k-$82k.

Then if I keep performing, they will off cycle bonus me in October.

I wish I didn't have to wait till March, but I feel okay.

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 10:03:04 AM by Easye418 »

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2015, 10:41:29 AM »
So after a month of waiting, here's what I got

They changed my salary effective 12/1/2015 from $70k to $75k.

They gave me a 10% bonus retro to my start date of 03/23/2015. We are going to pay out at 150% this year so that will feel roughly like a 10% bonus after proration so $7k gross. This pays out in March.

In March, I will get a merit and promotion increase. Minimum is 7%, max 11%. So that will get me up to $80k-$82k.

Then if I keep performing, they will off cycle bonus me in October.

I wish I didn't have to wait till March, but I feel okay.

Thoughts?

I wish preface this to let you know that I am feeling a bit biased against corporate America right now. How much do you like this employer/job? If you are happy, then you may want to ignore my comments ;/

My feeling is - you are getting screwed.

You were effectively doing this job for 8monts, you've prove you can do the job. You didn't even get a 10% pay increase. I would AT LEAST want some other 'sign on' bonus NOW (by 12/31/15). I want a sign of good faith from them.  I don't know of you have or can get any of these 'promises' in writing.

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2015, 11:41:49 AM »
My feeling is - you are getting screwed.

Yeah, this is pretty meh.

The big thing to me is this:
Hold on a minute?.. If your previous manager was making $110k +10% and your going to be doing the same job.. Why wouldn't you get the same?

Or do you need more experience?

And not only that, but are they going to be hiring someone to do your old job?

Or did they cut from 2 people to 1 (i.e. her 110k salary + your 70k salary)?

If the latter, I'd definitely shoot for 100k+, they're still saving tons of money.  If they're bringing on someone else, maybe 90-100k.

I mean, sure, take it for now, but I'd be looking elsewhere, too.

Bottom line though is if you're happy with it, that's all that matters, and congratulations on the raise is in order.  :)
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purple monkey

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2015, 11:43:59 AM »
So after a month of waiting, here's what I got

They changed my salary effective 12/1/2015 from $70k to $75k.

They gave me a 10% bonus retro to my start date of 03/23/2015. We are going to pay out at 150% this year so that will feel roughly like a 10% bonus after proration so $7k gross. This pays out in March.

In March, I will get a merit and promotion increase. Minimum is 7%, max 11%. So that will get me up to $80k-$82k.

Then if I keep performing, they will off cycle bonus me in October.

I wish I didn't have to wait till March, but I feel okay.

Thoughts?

I wish preface this to let you know that I am feeling a bit biased against corporate America right now. How much do you like this employer/job? If you are happy, then you may want to ignore my comments ;/

My feeling is - you are getting screwed.

You were effectively doing this job for 8monts, you've prove you can do the job. You didn't even get a 10% pay increase. I would AT LEAST want some other 'sign on' bonus NOW (by 12/31/15). I want a sign of good faith from them.  I don't know of you have or can get any of these 'promises' in writing.

Please, just stay for one year and get some great experience.  Let them think you are happy.  Go elsewhere when you can find someone that knows what a new place will be.

You have saved them so much money and they have not rewarded that.  I know that it is hard in jobs these days, but do not stay at this company long.

Just suggestions...

TomTX

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2015, 11:46:28 AM »
So after a month of waiting, here's what I got

They changed my salary effective 12/1/2015 from $70k to $75k.

They gave me a 10% bonus retro to my start date of 03/23/2015. We are going to pay out at 150% this year so that will feel roughly like a 10% bonus after proration so $7k gross. This pays out in March.

In March, I will get a merit and promotion increase. Minimum is 7%, max 11%. So that will get me up to $80k-$82k.

Then if I keep performing, they will off cycle bonus me in October.

I wish I didn't have to wait till March, but I feel okay.

Thoughts?

Get a couple of years under your belt and if you aren't at $100k by then, start looking elsewhere. Frequently you HAVE TO change companies to get fairly compensated.

lhamo

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Re: (UPDATE) Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2015, 11:51:43 AM »
First of all, congratulations on getting them pinned down so that you know where you stand.  You did better than I did on that front (see the first 20 pages or so of my journal for the ups and downs of my long-drawn out promotion process that eventually went nowhere because I quit before they managed to get off their asses).

But I agree with MJ and ARS -- while an improvement over your previous salary/role, this is hardly an offer to be thrilled about.  The fact that they are lowballing you at this point also potentially disadvantages you in relation to other possible promotions/raises either internally or externally.  I would definitely be keeping my eye out for other opportunities, and would consider approaching your former colleague who you mentioned upthread to see if they can top this.  See what you are worth currently on the open market, and if it is more than this then definitely continue to bargain with them, or just leave.

The sad, sad reality is that once they realize they can screw you over, they probably will just continue to do so.  They are hedging their bets by doling out these small rewards over time rather than making a real commitment to keeping you at this stage of the game.  It says they are prepared to lose you.  So I wouldn't feel any sense of loyalty to them. 

Another Reader

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Re: (UPDATE) Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2015, 12:06:03 PM »
+1 to lhamo's comments.

These people are paying you at or just above your old salary range to do a manager's job that paid $110k.  In your shoes, I would start looking around now, or at least at the beginning of the year.  Update your Linked in profile and research the professional association publications and websites for listings if that's applicable to your field.   Look for similar starting manager positions and research what these jobs pay before sending out resumes.  My guess is low $90's if they were paying the last one $110k.  I would start with the person that contacted you and see where that leads.  You don't want to jump ship for pennies, but you want a reasonable salary for the work you are doing.

Easye418

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Re: (UPDATE) Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2015, 12:17:58 PM »
Wow. Thanks for all the feedback.

I figured this would happen. I'm happy I'm getting something at the end of the day, which is a positive. If March comes and I don't get moved up to at least $80k, I'll probably start searching. If they get me to $80k, I'll probably stick it out another year so I have a nice solid 5.5 years experience when I look for another position.

I'm not going to lie, its a really lax position and I can coast through it for a year no problem.  I'll take the $5k salary plus $7k bonus for now though.

The main point is building my resume to show that I was quickly promoted and then I was a "manager" for a full year. It will make it easier in interviews.

Also, I don't know if I was clear. They pretty much fired her to bring on the VP. I know they had to save money somewhere but I figured they would make it sweeter than that. No direct reports either for me.

How does my plan sound?

Thanks for all the input everyone.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 01:13:07 PM by Easye418 »

rmendpara

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Re: (UPDATE) Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2015, 02:06:01 PM »
Wow. Thanks for all the feedback.

I figured this would happen. I'm happy I'm getting something at the end of the day, which is a positive. If March comes and I don't get moved up to at least $80k, I'll probably start searching. If they get me to $80k, I'll probably stick it out another year so I have a nice solid 5.5 years experience when I look for another position.

I'm not going to lie, its a really lax position and I can coast through it for a year no problem.  I'll take the $5k salary plus $7k bonus for now though.

The main point is building my resume to show that I was quickly promoted and then I was a "manager" for a full year. It will make it easier in interviews.

Also, I don't know if I was clear. They pretty much fired her to bring on the VP. I know they had to save money somewhere but I figured they would make it sweeter than that. No direct reports either for me.

How does my plan sound?

Thanks for all the input everyone.

I think you approached your expectation in the wrong way. Long time employees get paid based on tenure (~2-5% annual raises are somewhat standard, more or less), so your former manager at 110k with 25+ years of experience certainly was not overpaid... though likely for good reason since they clearly didn't have the right skills.

Not sure where you live, but 70k for a MBA in finance seems low (though I don't know what city you are in, your position detail, or the prestige of your degree or company). Did you do your MBA part time? That could explain it, because part time MBAs usually don't get their compensation reset the same way new MBA hires do.

Coming from a strategy background, I'll just say that your salary framework is wrong. You should not be thinking in terms of "insulted, content, ecstatic". You should ALWAYS be thinking "how am I doing today and what are my 1-2 year expectations at [current company] versus what you could get elsewhere in a comparable position".

Again, compensation is very location and company-dependent, but 4+ years at a top consumer goods company plus a MBA screams right around $100k+bonus (even in moderate cost areas like P&G in Ohio, Coca Cola,  in Atlanta, etc.) for a post-MBA [senior] analyst.

The best way to know if you are fairly compensated is to throw your resume into the market and see what hooks. You are only worth what someone else is willing to pay, and it's all a bunch of guesswork until you see a written offer. Talk to recruiters/headhunters, even if you don't intend to interview anywhere, and give out the 100k+bonus number. They'll tell you straight up if your head is in the clouds or if it's in the realm of possibility.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 02:11:29 PM by rmendpara »

arebelspy

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Re: (UPDATE) Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2015, 02:21:45 PM »
Typically switching jobs is one of the fastest ways to a fast pay increase.  Often you can even switch back to the first job later for another good increase.  Waiting until March to look is the easy way, but not the best way.  If you do get moved to 80k, then you won't look?  Start looking now.  It will take some effort.  Schedule a few nights for it, and cut back on internet/tv/whatever for a week or two.  It could pay off big.
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Mini-Mer

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Re: (UPDATE) Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2015, 05:51:04 PM »
Are there any indications that your company (or section of the company) might be in financial trouble?  When the older, longtime employees at my place were axed, it was because junior people (like me) could do the same job as well or better, and considerably cheaper, and they couldn't afford the senior staff anymore.  Even the less-competent seniors would probably have coasted to retirement if the company had been doing well.   Some of the replacements were working way above their job title and pay grade, and the company never did make that right.  (Then it went under.)

Your company is at least gesturing in the right direction, with the promotion on paper and a schedule for raises/bonuses.  But if you have any indication that business is not good, abandon ship. 

Goldielocks

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Re: (UPDATE) Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2015, 11:30:52 PM »
Thanks for the update.

In my opinion, this is not a promotion.   More like a "Thanks for your work and we have expanded your role a bit since you were hired, so here is a token to acknowledge that."  BUT   "we have decided that the role really is not a manager role, although I can't figure out how to remove that title from you now, originally that title was just created so that we could  justify to HR why we were paying your old boss more money to retain her due to the years of experience."

"We figured out our error, and have now let her go."

If you don't have direct reports, what aspects of your job remain that qualify for the manager role, as opposed to Sr Analyst, or "Technical lead in X".   If you can present a good case for that, then you should revisit a larger increase in March with your employer, and drop a few hints that way at the end of January.

If you don't have a good case why the role is a manager role..., I like the recommendation to just get the experience and be willing to move on if you don't like the pay.

Doubleh

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Re: (UPDATE) Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2015, 05:22:20 AM »
The best way to know if you are fairly compensated is to throw your resume into the market and see what hooks. You are only worth what someone else is willing to pay, and it's all a bunch of guesswork until you see a written offer. Talk to recruiters/headhunters, even if you don't intend to interview anywhere, and give out the 100k+bonus number. They'll tell you straight up if your head is in the clouds or if it's in the realm of possibility.

This. What your predecessor was paid is irrelevant. The only thing that matterwhom assessing  whether or not your pay is fair is what the market is willing to pay you. The best way to find this out is to put your resume out there and talk to people. I'll also second the advice about thinking about a 2-5 year timescale - at an early stage in your career post b school the value you can add to your cv can be as important, or more so, than what you get paid. Of course ideally you want both!

Easye418

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Re: (UPDATE) Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2015, 03:05:25 PM »
Thanks for the update.

In my opinion, this is not a promotion.   More like a "Thanks for your work and we have expanded

If you don't have a good case why the role is a manager role..., I like the recommendation to just get the experience and be willing to move on if you don't like the pay.

I like the way you put this. It's kinda how I feel. I know the larger increase is coming in March so I'm just hoping to get as much as possible and keep gaining experience.

Honestly, I'm happy that I'm making more money at the end of the day and I got the bonus I rightfully deserved all along. Now if they can get me to $80-$82k, I'll be content for a bit.

Not to mention, if I get screwed in March, I have a good story building on my resume ie promoted so quick during my stay with the company.

@Mini-Mer company is in great shape.  We smoked our EBITDA and maxed out our bonus this year.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 03:08:19 PM by Easye418 »

mm1970

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Re: Opinions wanted: Fired the old person, promoted me!
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2015, 06:04:31 PM »
My feeling is - you are getting screwed.

Yeah, this is pretty meh.

The big thing to me is this:
Hold on a minute?.. If your previous manager was making $110k +10% and your going to be doing the same job.. Why wouldn't you get the same?

Or do you need more experience?

And not only that, but are they going to be hiring someone to do your old job?

Or did they cut from 2 people to 1 (i.e. her 110k salary + your 70k salary)?

If the latter, I'd definitely shoot for 100k+, they're still saving tons of money.  If they're bringing on someone else, maybe 90-100k.

I mean, sure, take it for now, but I'd be looking elsewhere, too.

Bottom line though is if you're happy with it, that's all that matters, and congratulations on the raise is in order.  :)

This!  Nothing wrong with getting a year with the manager title though...