Author Topic: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!  (Read 17187 times)

NoVa

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #50 on: September 14, 2017, 12:04:28 PM »
This wireless charging thing...

before: plug one end of a wire to an USB port then plug the other end to your phone. Then unplug your phone. Repeat multiple times a day.
after: plug one end of a wire to an USB port then place your phone on top of the other end. No more plugging and unplugging ever.

I'm ordering 3.

You are oversimplifying the difference. It is obviously worth $800-1000 to not have to plug in and unplug your phone 1 or more times per day.

/sarcasm

My bad, I didn't notice that the phone is wireless, not the obligatory charger. It's truly a great value if you don't think about it.


On a serious note I think wireless charging is really a cool concept, but it's not a great improvement if we're not able to charge something from a distance. With today's tech and for this price... meh.

My electric toothbrush has had this feature for many years. Are we now saying that the iPhone has caught up to the technological level of my toothbrush?

Optimiser

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #51 on: September 14, 2017, 12:14:08 PM »
To offer another (outside the box) perspective, the value present in a modern phone is absolutely a spectacular bargain, due to tremendous scale economies and technology innovations at the semiconductor level.

The modern cell phone contains technolology and processing power that as early as a few decades ago would have cost approaching hundreds of thousands of dollars.  Consider that it was not uncommon to:

* Have to buy a PC, special modem, special contract to access the internet for email, chat, basic services.  These could easily run$10k per year decades ago for much worse functionality.
* To have to buy a special dedicated portable phone, pay to have it installed in a car, sign up for special service just to be able to call from a non land line.  Early cell phones easily exceeded $10k in price.
* High fidelity digital cameras, video recorders, easily cost thousands each, plus the recording media like tapes, plus players like VHS decks.  Easily over $10k more.
* Audio lovers easily spend $10k on a high fi audio systems, tapes/records, headphones to get their tunes on.
* TVs and cable contracts cost thousands (that can now be streamed while riding the bus)
* Shopping, banking, easily required multiple costly trips using gas, time.  Now mobile check deposits, amazon purchases take seconds in real time with free delivery.
* Gaming systems cost hundreds, if not thousands.  I remember paying $200 for a device that only played chess, $100 for some primitive football Mattel device.  Now your phone can deliver massive multiplayer, real time action, a thousand strategy games against other humans.
* Devices now translate on demand. 
* How many travel books, guides, translator services, free advice, restaurant reviews do we get cor free now...
* No need to buy a pedometer, exercise reminders, calendars, stopwatch, watch, etc.

The list goes on and on.  The value received by modern humans with access to the latest phone technology makes $1000 (roughly a week of work) seem like such a bargain, it boggles my mind people find it usury.

In the very near future, phones will be the foundation of identity to seamlessly deliver many services, including easier access through security at airports and lower credit fraud costs through verified identity for financial transactions  via the biometrics (e.g. the facial recognition).  Apple is using the (Somewhat dumb) early tech adoptors to help fund core tech innovations that eventually will transform many services in ways we cant yet imagine.  They know what they are doing i expect.

Just a different point of view (that said, I am still on a 4S and refuse to upgrade...😁)

So basically, if the latest iPhone were for sale in 1990 for $1000 it would be an incredible value. But in 2017 you can buy something that will do all of those things for much less.

BTW, props for sticking with the 4S, I wish I could say I did the same. I gave up on mine about a year ago, when I started restarting itself over and over while charging, and stopped being able to play podcasts smoothly. I ended up buying a Nexus 6P (which is so fancy it's ridiculous) for around $330, I'm hoping I can get at least 3 more years out of it.

josh4trunks

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #52 on: September 14, 2017, 12:18:28 PM »
I'm going to iPhone 8 Plus, 64 GB model, black. I'm using a 5+ year old Samsung Galaxy Nexus. It's upgrade time. The purchase will not make a dent in FIRE plans.

I'm done with Android and the lack of support after 2-3 years on pure Google Devices. Apple gives you 5 years of iOS Support (http://iossupportmatrix.com/). I'm tired of having to turn to 3rd party builds like LineageOS to provide security updates that Google refused to provide after 2 years.

The only downside is battery replacement, but being a handy mustachian with tools and the iFixit guide I can replace it.

What is so tiring about LineageOS?
I just got my grandma her first smart phone after months of her complaining she's behind the times. Got her a Nexus 6P, for $220 on ebay. It does have a dent in the metal, probably why it was a bit under market value but she will never see that cause I put a case on it.
I put LineageOS on there and she has the latest security patches without all the crap stock OSs come with.

ooeei

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #53 on: September 14, 2017, 12:21:08 PM »
This wireless charging thing...

before: plug one end of a wire to an USB port then plug the other end to your phone. Then unplug your phone. Repeat multiple times a day.
after: plug one end of a wire to an USB port then place your phone on top of the other end. No more plugging and unplugging ever.

I'm ordering 3.

You are oversimplifying the difference. It is obviously worth $800-1000 to not have to plug in and unplug your phone 1 or more times per day.

/sarcasm

My bad, I didn't notice that the phone is wireless, not the obligatory charger. It's truly a great value if you don't think about it.


On a serious note I think wireless charging is really a cool concept, but it's not a great improvement if we're not able to charge something from a distance. With today's tech and for this price... meh.

I see wireless as making more of a difference in public spaces. Right now if you want to charge your phone when you're out and about, you have to bring a charging cable with you. With wireless, you can set it down on a table/desk/bar that has wireless charging built in and be good to go. They have this at some airports, but it's usually in pretty inconvenient locations. The more common it becomes, the more convenience it adds.

With that being said, I don't care much about it and don't have it on my phone.

I'm going to iPhone 8 Plus, 64 GB model, black. I'm using a 5+ year old Samsung Galaxy Nexus. It's upgrade time. The purchase will not make a dent in FIRE plans.

I'm done with Android and the lack of support after 2-3 years on pure Google Devices. Apple gives you 5 years of iOS Support (http://iossupportmatrix.com/). I'm tired of having to turn to 3rd party builds like LineageOS to provide security updates that Google refused to provide after 2 years.

The only downside is battery replacement, but being a handy mustachian with tools and the iFixit guide I can replace it.

I changed over from an original Moto X to an iphone SE last year for similar reasons. No regrets.

geekette

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #54 on: September 14, 2017, 08:52:37 PM »
Public wireless charging will also be safer - no possibility of plugging in to something that could damage your phone or steal info (I don't know that this is common, but I've read warnings about charging in airports).

I know they changed the back to glass to enable wireless charging, but can it be charged with a case? 

Apple does support much longer, and doesn't come with bloatware (although I did hear someone complain that the Stocks app is useless to her, because why would she have anything in the stock market).  Even my 8 year old iMac is eligible for the latest Mac OS.

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #55 on: September 15, 2017, 06:19:55 AM »
Public wireless charging will also be safer - no possibility of plugging in to something that could damage your phone or steal info (I don't know that this is common, but I've read warnings about charging in airports).

I know they changed the back to glass to enable wireless charging, but can it be charged with a case? 

Apple does support much longer, and doesn't come with bloatware (although I did hear someone complain that the Stocks app is useless to her, because why would she have anything in the stock market).  Even my 8 year old iMac is eligible for the latest Mac OS.
Exactly. Wireless charging reduces the chances of a Man-In-The-Middle attack.

As long as the case is non-metallic, you should be fine with using a Qi charger. I had this feature on my Samsung Galaxy S5 (you had to buy a special back cover). No issues using a rubber case (e.g. Spigen).

Officially Apple provides 5 versions of iOS to every phone. That's about 5 years of updates. As a engineer who makes a living integrating hardware and software systems, I appreciate that the manufacturer performs thousands of hours of automated testing to ensure that the iOS version n will work on a 4 year old iPhone/iPad. I don't have to turn to a 3rd party solution like Android users have to resort to just because Google will not support a Nexus/Pixel device past 2 or 3 years. And Samsung is even worse, plus the carriers have to perform their own testing too. That time delay is not worth the increased risk of cybertheft.

hoping2retire35

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #56 on: September 15, 2017, 06:36:39 AM »
What if you are in an accident and suffer from face disfigurement? I realize at that point getting into your phone may not be a priority but still would be nice to have an alternative. Or someone dies, goes missing and the police want to see if there is evidence on your phone?

I doubt your face 'key' is only on your phone, but I could be wrong. Is there another way to open it?

ooeei

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #57 on: September 15, 2017, 07:09:54 AM »
What if you are in an accident and suffer from face disfigurement? I realize at that point getting into your phone may not be a priority but still would be nice to have an alternative. Or someone dies, goes missing and the police want to see if there is evidence on your phone?

I doubt your face 'key' is only on your phone, but I could be wrong. Is there another way to open it?

If it's anything like "TouchID" it will also have a passcode. The passcode is required if TouchID fails, or when restarting your phone.

The only time touchID seems to have problems for me is with wet hands, that is one thing faceID can fix. Typing out the passcode isn't enough of a hassle for me to want to spend $1k to avoid it though.

GuitarStv

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #58 on: September 15, 2017, 08:02:38 AM »
To offer another (outside the box) perspective, the value present in a modern phone is absolutely a spectacular bargain, due to tremendous scale economies and technology innovations at the semiconductor level.

The modern cell phone contains technolology and processing power that as early as a few decades ago would have cost approaching hundreds of thousands of dollars.  Consider that it was not uncommon to:

* Have to buy a PC, special modem, special contract to access the internet for email, chat, basic services.  These could easily run $10k per year decades ago for much worse functionality.

A cell phone isn't a replacement for a PC.

* High fidelity digital cameras, video recorders, easily cost thousands each, plus the recording media like tapes, plus players like VHS decks.  Easily over $10k more.

Your cell phone isn't a great digital camera or video recorder.


* Audio lovers easily spend $10k on a high fi audio systems, tapes/records, headphones to get their tunes on.

Your cell phone is so far removed from being a high-fi audio system that at this point I think you're trolling.  :P

* TVs and cable contracts cost thousands (that can now be streamed while riding the bus)

You still have to pay for access to most TV and cable channels.  Cell phones haven't changed the options available to consumers, widespread illegal downloading (and the scramble to offer people alternatives that they want to pay for) has.

* Shopping, banking, easily required multiple costly trips using gas, time.  Now mobile check deposits, amazon purchases take seconds in real time with free delivery.

None of that is related to a cell phone.

* No need to buy a pedometer, exercise reminders, calendars, stopwatch, watch, etc.

There has never been a need to buy any of those things.

ooeei

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #59 on: September 15, 2017, 08:32:51 AM »
To offer another (outside the box) perspective, the value present in a modern phone is absolutely a spectacular bargain, due to tremendous scale economies and technology innovations at the semiconductor level.

The modern cell phone contains technolology and processing power that as early as a few decades ago would have cost approaching hundreds of thousands of dollars.  Consider that it was not uncommon to:

* Have to buy a PC, special modem, special contract to access the internet for email, chat, basic services.  These could easily run $10k per year decades ago for much worse functionality.

A cell phone isn't a replacement for a PC.

* High fidelity digital cameras, video recorders, easily cost thousands each, plus the recording media like tapes, plus players like VHS decks.  Easily over $10k more.

Your cell phone isn't a great digital camera or video recorder.


* Audio lovers easily spend $10k on a high fi audio systems, tapes/records, headphones to get their tunes on.

Your cell phone is so far removed from being a high-fi audio system that at this point I think you're trolling.  :P

* TVs and cable contracts cost thousands (that can now be streamed while riding the bus)

You still have to pay for access to most TV and cable channels.  Cell phones haven't changed the options available to consumers, widespread illegal downloading (and the scramble to offer people alternatives that they want to pay for) has.

* Shopping, banking, easily required multiple costly trips using gas, time.  Now mobile check deposits, amazon purchases take seconds in real time with free delivery.

None of that is related to a cell phone.

* No need to buy a pedometer, exercise reminders, calendars, stopwatch, watch, etc.

There has never been a need to buy any of those things.

Pretty sure he's comparing the modern cell phone with tech from the 90's, in which case it can replace a PC, is a high quality camera, is high quality audio, and allows you to access all sorts of media that would've been merely a dream at the time.

Of course, there are many cheaper options currently that do all of those things, but I think the overall point was "this shit is magical, whether it costs $200 or $1000 it would've been unheard of even 20 years ago, so it's not all that big of a deal. The cost of the equivalent of an iphone camera/video recorder, device to connect to the internet, and quality music player (not to mention the music to put on it) would have been well over $1000 in 1995."

drteter

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #60 on: September 15, 2017, 04:43:17 PM »
Came to the forum to post angrily about a marketing text message I got from Verizon today, and it seems to fit right in with the topic of the thread here! Can't post the screenshot I took, so here's the text:

Get up to $300 off the new iPhone 8 on Verizon unlimited when you trade in select devices after bill credits over 24 mos; 0% APR. Limited time offer. New device payment agmt req'd.

In 3 sentences, I count probably 5 consumer sukka things deserving of face punches - how many can you guys get?

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #61 on: September 15, 2017, 09:20:55 PM »
Came to the forum to post angrily about a marketing text message I got from Verizon today, and it seems to fit right in with the topic of the thread here! Can't post the screenshot I took, so here's the text:

Get up to $300 off the new iPhone 8 on Verizon unlimited when you trade in select devices after bill credits over 24 mos; 0% APR. Limited time offer. New device payment agmt req'd.

In 3 sentences, I count probably 5 consumer sukka things deserving of face punches - how many can you guys get?

The only part I like is 0% APR, however that generally means the profit margin is built into the cost of the device.

gggggg

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #62 on: September 16, 2017, 01:05:53 AM »
My next phone won't be $1000 because I simply won't pay that much for one (it helps that I'm not a big techie). When my iphone 5 dies, I'll get something reasonable.

MayDay

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #63 on: September 16, 2017, 05:46:34 AM »
I don't do apple at all, but I love wireless charging.

It is weird to me that it took this long, though. My first smart phone in 2013 had it.

I don't pay extra for it, but if I'm choosing between phones, the wireless charging will sway me. I kept the charger on the kitchen counter and sorrynotsorry but it is super handy to just drop it there rather than find the end of the cord and plug it in.

Of course the optimal solution would be for my phone battery to last all day.

Optimiser

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #64 on: September 16, 2017, 07:36:37 AM »
Came to the forum to post angrily about a marketing text message I got from Verizon today, and it seems to fit right in with the topic of the thread here! Can't post the screenshot I took, so here's the text:

Get up to $300 off the new iPhone 8 on Verizon unlimited when you trade in select devices after bill credits over 24 mos; 0% APR. Limited time offer. New device payment agmt req'd.

In 3 sentences, I count probably 5 consumer sukka things deserving of face punches - how many can you guys get?

The only part I like is 0% APR, however that generally means the profit margin is built into the cost of the device.

A few years ago, when my wife was upgrading from an iPhone 4 to an iPhone 6, Verizon had a deal where they would finance your phone for 0% APR. I ran a net present value calculation that compared buying the phone with 0% financing, which required a post paid plan and a contract, to buying the phone outright from Apple and switching to a prepaid plan (still through Verizon). Buying the phone outright was cheaper.  I believe I used a 7.125% discount rate as that was our highest student loan at the time.

The Verizon sales person would not believe me when I told him it cost more to finance the phone, but I'm sure he had no idea how to calculate NPV either.

FINate

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #65 on: September 16, 2017, 10:07:57 AM »
The wireless charging thing IS overhyped, BUT ... glad to see phones moving away from needing to charge via micro USB (super fragile, wears out quickly) or proprietary standards (Lightning). All hail USB-C!

dang1

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #66 on: September 17, 2017, 02:46:08 AM »
I don't use my Galaxy S7's wireless charging feature. I have it in a 4500mAh battery case by Trianium, which is unable to wireless recharge. I'm a heavy user on unlimited VZW data; on average, I use about 80 GB/month. Although, I recharge the S7 every night, with the battery case, I've gone 2 days before I have to recharge. I use a fast recharger plug, which is also pretty convenient.

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #67 on: September 17, 2017, 06:07:19 AM »
Came to the forum to post angrily about a marketing text message I got from Verizon today, and it seems to fit right in with the topic of the thread here! Can't post the screenshot I took, so here's the text:

Get up to $300 off the new iPhone 8 on Verizon unlimited when you trade in select devices after bill credits over 24 mos; 0% APR. Limited time offer. New device payment agmt req'd.

In 3 sentences, I count probably 5 consumer sukka things deserving of face punches - how many can you guys get?

T-Mobile has that offer too. The trade-in phone has to be in very good working condition. Most of the trade-in models are high end Apple/Pixel/Samsung models, which would sell for over $300 on the used market. The other kicker is that I have to get off my grandfathered T-Mo family plan (4 lines for $100, 4 GB data per line) and move to the new T-Mo One plan (4 lines for $160, BUT data is UNLIMITED (ain't no such thing as they'll throttle)), or else no deal.

SeaEhm

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #68 on: September 17, 2017, 09:38:07 AM »
I am posting now so that I can come back in early November and post photos of my new iPhone X when it arrives.

I have 0 cares.  I have flexible spending and this purchase fits within the grand scheme of things.

I will provide reviews.  Worse comes to worst it will not be worse than the current hand me down phone that I have that needs a battery replacement as it dies from sending a text even with 60% battery life.


sportse

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #69 on: September 17, 2017, 11:51:36 AM »
I believe sales in India of iPhones have been fairly low... Because the cost of a phone could instead pay the average person's grocery costs for a whole year!

jinga nation

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #70 on: September 17, 2017, 11:52:13 AM »
stuff

Pretty sure he's comparing the modern cell phone with tech from the 90's, in which case it can replace a PC, is a high quality camera, is high quality audio, and allows you to access all sorts of media that would've been merely a dream at the time.

Of course, there are many cheaper options currently that do all of those things, but I think the overall point was "this shit is magical, whether it costs $200 or $1000 it would've been unheard of even 20 years ago, so it's not all that big of a deal. The cost of the equivalent of an iphone camera/video recorder, device to connect to the internet, and quality music player (not to mention the music to put on it) would have been well over $1000 in 1995."

Pretty much.  Young people today mostly lack perspective in what it takes to deliver these magical little boxes.  For example, it will cost roughly $13B to set up and compete with one fabrication facility for the next generation of high density memory chips.  These suckers have 3D memory arrays reading voltages at electron levels (which actually suggests the memory density improvements may slow soon).  Thats just one part.

But GuitarSiv knows better, so facepunch away.  No one could possibly get $1000 worth of value from a phone (equal to 10 spa treatments, 20 nice dinners, 30 tanks of gas, auto insurance for 6 months, etc.).
I long for the day for quantum computing in mobile phones.

In grad school, circa 2002, I performed research to create CAD simulation models of 0603 & 0402 surface mount resistors, inductors, capacitors. Effective Series Resistance was a huge deal. Some of these simulation models were sold to Motorola and were used in creation of the V60 & RAZR series.

We've seen antennas change from external dipoles to internal line elements that reside on the casing. That's a significant change and it's the end-result of a lot of research from academia and industry.

A $1000 is nothing when you include the time & cost of engineering in a product. Don't look at the cost of components only. Also, add the 5 years of iOS and security updates that Apple is providing.

Meanwhile, my wife's Nexus 6P, released in Sept 2015 does not get a guaranteed Android version update after Sept 2017 and no guaranteed security patches after Sept 2018. https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705?hl=en#nexus_devices

You get what you pay for. I work in IT security and am done with the malware-abundant apps in Google Play Store. I can't wait for my 8 Plus. Maybe I'll be proved wrong; won't be the first and the last time.


jinga nation

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #72 on: September 17, 2017, 11:55:50 AM »
I believe sales in India of iPhones have been fairly low... Because the cost of a phone could instead pay the average person's grocery costs for a whole year!

That's official Apple sales. You'd be surprised to see tons of used iPhones via the gray market. I know buyers locally of iPhones/iPads who refurb and ship them overseas in bulk. You iPhone 4S will have another life in the land of reincarnation. I've sold an empty, yes EMPTY, iPad Air box to a refurbisher.

BTDretire

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #73 on: September 17, 2017, 03:05:25 PM »
This cellphone fad will die out sooner or later.

Ken Olsen, founder of Digital Equipment Corporation, 1977
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."

 I suspect the cellphone will be the reason for that.

I'm one who still carries a flip phone and has a desktop computer.
 But this thread has me looking at the Moto 5 Plus and the iPhone SE.
I don't need much of a push to upgrade, but I've been in that position for about 3 years.

dang1

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #74 on: September 17, 2017, 04:09:00 PM »
I use about 80 GB of VZW data/month on my Galaxy S7. My first Android was the Galaxy Nexus in 2012, always had Androids since then- I haven't experienced any malware. Some good tips on how to avoid it: http://www.talkingnewmedia.com/2017/09/06/mobile-malware-theres-app/

Update all you want but if you're susceptible to clickbait or not too smart about downloading apps, stick to a feature phone.
Actually, my S 7 prompts me daily to update to Android Nougat, but hey I still like Marshmallow, works for me- so I'll stick with Marshmallow for now, lol.

Every time I get a phone, I always consider the iPhone, but always, never made sense to me to get one- Android always wins out.   For alot of people, an iPhone just doesn't make sense- in India, in the United States, etc. I was in recently in the Philippines- sea of Android, hardly an iPhone in sight. Even in the US, Androids makes more sense for more people than iPhones.

jinga nation

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #75 on: September 18, 2017, 10:51:11 AM »
Every time I get a phone, I always consider the iPhone, but always, never made sense to me to get one- Android always wins out.   For alot of people, an iPhone just doesn't make sense- in India, in the United States, etc. I was in recently in the Philippines- sea of Android, hardly an iPhone in sight. Even in the US, Androids makes more sense for more people than iPhones.

Please explain. I'm not trolling you, I'm genuinely interested. I'm actually getting my first non-work iPhone to test waters on the other side as I've been Android for a long time.

I am of Indian descent, have a lot of relatives in India, and always get requests for used/new iPhones to send to them. I agree that there's a plethora of Android handset options to satisfy various price points and family budgets.

Android, iPhone, it's all a tool to me to improve productivity. I don't game on them or get lost in the app store quagmires. Email, browsing, WhatsApp, photos, maps, streaming music is all I use them for.

GuitarStv

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #76 on: September 18, 2017, 11:18:52 AM »
stuff

Pretty sure he's comparing the modern cell phone with tech from the 90's, in which case it can replace a PC, is a high quality camera, is high quality audio, and allows you to access all sorts of media that would've been merely a dream at the time.

Of course, there are many cheaper options currently that do all of those things, but I think the overall point was "this shit is magical, whether it costs $200 or $1000 it would've been unheard of even 20 years ago, so it's not all that big of a deal. The cost of the equivalent of an iphone camera/video recorder, device to connect to the internet, and quality music player (not to mention the music to put on it) would have been well over $1000 in 1995."

Pretty much.  Young people today mostly lack perspective in what it takes to deliver these magical little boxes.  For example, it will cost roughly $13B to set up and compete with one fabrication facility for the next generation of high density memory chips.  These suckers have 3D memory arrays reading voltages at electron levels (which actually suggests the memory density improvements may slow soon).  Thats just one part.

But GuitarSiv knows better, so facepunch away.  No one could possibly get $1000 worth of value from a phone (equal to 10 spa treatments, 20 nice dinners, 30 tanks of gas, auto insurance for 6 months, etc.).

I get that cellphones have a lot of impressive technology.  I question if it's really as good a deal as we're being sold though.

Let's say you're a professional photographer.  You have real need of a camera.  Do you go out and buy a cell phone?  No.  You buy a professional level camera.  "AHA!  You say . . . yeah, cell phone cameras are obviously not competitive with good stuff.  I don't need a professional camera, I just need to take pictures of random stuff on a regular basis."  To this, I have to ask 'Why is that a need?'.  Just because you can do stuff with a cellphone doesn't mean that it makes the world a better place when you do it.  The vast majority of cell phone functions fall under this category . . . kinda neat, lived perfectly happily without it before, suddenly being able to do this is a need.

I am deeply disturbed at the use it and toss it culture of cell phones.  It's pretty rare for someone to have a four year old phone, let along a ten year old one . . . and these phones are being tossed by the hundreds of millions every year.

Optimiser

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #77 on: September 18, 2017, 11:29:30 AM »
stuff

Pretty sure he's comparing the modern cell phone with tech from the 90's, in which case it can replace a PC, is a high quality camera, is high quality audio, and allows you to access all sorts of media that would've been merely a dream at the time.

Of course, there are many cheaper options currently that do all of those things, but I think the overall point was "this shit is magical, whether it costs $200 or $1000 it would've been unheard of even 20 years ago, so it's not all that big of a deal. The cost of the equivalent of an iphone camera/video recorder, device to connect to the internet, and quality music player (not to mention the music to put on it) would have been well over $1000 in 1995."

Pretty much.  Young people today mostly lack perspective in what it takes to deliver these magical little boxes.  For example, it will cost roughly $13B to set up and compete with one fabrication facility for the next generation of high density memory chips.  These suckers have 3D memory arrays reading voltages at electron levels (which actually suggests the memory density improvements may slow soon).  Thats just one part.

But GuitarSiv knows better, so facepunch away.  No one could possibly get $1000 worth of value from a phone (equal to 10 spa treatments, 20 nice dinners, 30 tanks of gas, auto insurance for 6 months, etc.).

I get that cellphones have a lot of impressive technology.  I question if it's really as good a deal as we're being sold though.

Let's say you're a professional photographer.  You have real need of a camera.  Do you go out and buy a cell phone?  No.  You buy a professional level camera.  "AHA!  You say . . . yeah, cell phone cameras are obviously not competitive with good stuff.  I don't need a professional camera, I just need to take pictures of random stuff on a regular basis."  To this, I have to ask 'Why is that a need?'.  Just because you can do stuff with a cellphone doesn't mean that it makes the world a better place when you do it.  The vast majority of cell phone functions fall under this category . . . kinda neat, lived perfectly happily without it before, suddenly being able to do this is a need.

I am deeply disturbed at the use it and toss it culture of cell phones.  It's pretty rare for someone to have a four year old phone, let along a ten year old one . . . and these phones are being tossed by the hundreds of millions every year.

Same here. I hate the way that OS upgrades make an old phone so slow it becomes almost unusable forcing an upgrade.

ooeei

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #78 on: September 18, 2017, 11:42:13 AM »
stuff

Pretty sure he's comparing the modern cell phone with tech from the 90's, in which case it can replace a PC, is a high quality camera, is high quality audio, and allows you to access all sorts of media that would've been merely a dream at the time.

Of course, there are many cheaper options currently that do all of those things, but I think the overall point was "this shit is magical, whether it costs $200 or $1000 it would've been unheard of even 20 years ago, so it's not all that big of a deal. The cost of the equivalent of an iphone camera/video recorder, device to connect to the internet, and quality music player (not to mention the music to put on it) would have been well over $1000 in 1995."

Pretty much.  Young people today mostly lack perspective in what it takes to deliver these magical little boxes.  For example, it will cost roughly $13B to set up and compete with one fabrication facility for the next generation of high density memory chips.  These suckers have 3D memory arrays reading voltages at electron levels (which actually suggests the memory density improvements may slow soon).  Thats just one part.

But GuitarSiv knows better, so facepunch away.  No one could possibly get $1000 worth of value from a phone (equal to 10 spa treatments, 20 nice dinners, 30 tanks of gas, auto insurance for 6 months, etc.).

I get that cellphones have a lot of impressive technology.  I question if it's really as good a deal as we're being sold though.

Let's say you're a professional photographer.  You have real need of a camera.  Do you go out and buy a cell phone?  No.  You buy a professional level camera.  "AHA!  You say . . . yeah, cell phone cameras are obviously not competitive with good stuff.  I don't need a professional camera, I just need to take pictures of random stuff on a regular basis."  To this, I have to ask 'Why is that a need?'.  Just because you can do stuff with a cellphone doesn't mean that it makes the world a better place when you do it.  The vast majority of cell phone functions fall under this category . . . kinda neat, lived perfectly happily without it before, suddenly being able to do this is a need.

I am deeply disturbed at the use it and toss it culture of cell phones.  It's pretty rare for someone to have a four year old phone, let along a ten year old one . . . and these phones are being tossed by the hundreds of millions every year.

My family always had a camera and camcorder for taking family pictures and videos during gatherings. Now we don't need one. Granted, you only needed one for the whole family, everyone didn't need their own. 

People got along without all sorts of things just fine, it doesn't mean those things don't make our lives better. I talk to my grandma almost exclusively through Words with Friends. If it weren't for cell phones, she'd probably get an annual happy birthday phone call and that would be it. Then again, people got along without phones too, so maybe she just needs a letter every year or two. I send pictures to my and my girlfriends' family pretty regularly as well, it helps us keep in touch.  Video chat is a big deal for a lot of people. Online banking is a major timesaver. I can comparison shop while I'm in a store. I have a constantly updated map of the world in my pocket that has helped me out numerous times.  I used my iphone camera yesterday to list 4 things on eBay that 15 years ago I would've thrown away or sold at a garage sale for pennies. I do the same on craigslist or facebook occasionally as well.

So I guess you're right in that I don't "need" most of those things, but it helps me keep in touch with friends and family who I otherwise might not, helps me sell things online, and lets me capture some moments that otherwise might be forgotten. I don't really "need" a refrigerator either, but it sure makes life better.


Yeah the toss it out every 2 years deal is pretty terrible, but I figure over the next 10 years or so it will slow down significantly, the same way computers have now, and the same way electric cars will. Once the tech matures to a certain point the incremental upgrades stop being as worthwhile, and people figure it out.  Even with some people who do upgrade constantly, many of their phones are being sold used to other people who continue using them.  Phones are also relatively small, and I suspect are a pretty small part of the average person's environmental footprint.

edit:
And I just realized this, but the original iPhone only came out 10 years ago. Remember the mainstream smartphone market is still pretty young, expecting 10 year old phones right now is a bit of a reach. In 20 years I suspect there will be far more older phones around.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 11:56:27 AM by ooeei »

GuitarStv

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #79 on: September 18, 2017, 12:43:19 PM »
stuff

Pretty sure he's comparing the modern cell phone with tech from the 90's, in which case it can replace a PC, is a high quality camera, is high quality audio, and allows you to access all sorts of media that would've been merely a dream at the time.

Of course, there are many cheaper options currently that do all of those things, but I think the overall point was "this shit is magical, whether it costs $200 or $1000 it would've been unheard of even 20 years ago, so it's not all that big of a deal. The cost of the equivalent of an iphone camera/video recorder, device to connect to the internet, and quality music player (not to mention the music to put on it) would have been well over $1000 in 1995."

Pretty much.  Young people today mostly lack perspective in what it takes to deliver these magical little boxes.  For example, it will cost roughly $13B to set up and compete with one fabrication facility for the next generation of high density memory chips.  These suckers have 3D memory arrays reading voltages at electron levels (which actually suggests the memory density improvements may slow soon).  Thats just one part.

But GuitarSiv knows better, so facepunch away.  No one could possibly get $1000 worth of value from a phone (equal to 10 spa treatments, 20 nice dinners, 30 tanks of gas, auto insurance for 6 months, etc.).

I get that cellphones have a lot of impressive technology.  I question if it's really as good a deal as we're being sold though.

Let's say you're a professional photographer.  You have real need of a camera.  Do you go out and buy a cell phone?  No.  You buy a professional level camera.  "AHA!  You say . . . yeah, cell phone cameras are obviously not competitive with good stuff.  I don't need a professional camera, I just need to take pictures of random stuff on a regular basis."  To this, I have to ask 'Why is that a need?'.  Just because you can do stuff with a cellphone doesn't mean that it makes the world a better place when you do it.  The vast majority of cell phone functions fall under this category . . . kinda neat, lived perfectly happily without it before, suddenly being able to do this is a need.

I am deeply disturbed at the use it and toss it culture of cell phones.  It's pretty rare for someone to have a four year old phone, let along a ten year old one . . . and these phones are being tossed by the hundreds of millions every year.

My family always had a camera and camcorder for taking family pictures and videos during gatherings. Now we don't need one. Granted, you only needed one for the whole family, everyone didn't need their own. 

People got along without all sorts of things just fine, it doesn't mean those things don't make our lives better. I talk to my grandma almost exclusively through Words with Friends. If it weren't for cell phones, she'd probably get an annual happy birthday phone call and that would be it. Then again, people got along without phones too, so maybe she just needs a letter every year or two. I send pictures to my and my girlfriends' family pretty regularly as well, it helps us keep in touch.  Video chat is a big deal for a lot of people. Online banking is a major timesaver. I can comparison shop while I'm in a store. I have a constantly updated map of the world in my pocket that has helped me out numerous times.  I used my iphone camera yesterday to list 4 things on eBay that 15 years ago I would've thrown away or sold at a garage sale for pennies. I do the same on craigslist or facebook occasionally as well.

So I guess you're right in that I don't "need" most of those things, but it helps me keep in touch with friends and family who I otherwise might not, helps me sell things online, and lets me capture some moments that otherwise might be forgotten. I don't really "need" a refrigerator either, but it sure makes life better.


Yeah the toss it out every 2 years deal is pretty terrible, but I figure over the next 10 years or so it will slow down significantly, the same way computers have now, and the same way electric cars will. Once the tech matures to a certain point the incremental upgrades stop being as worthwhile, and people figure it out.  Even with some people who do upgrade constantly, many of their phones are being sold used to other people who continue using them.  Phones are also relatively small, and I suspect are a pretty small part of the average person's environmental footprint.

edit:
And I just realized this, but the original iPhone only came out 10 years ago. Remember the mainstream smartphone market is still pretty young, expecting 10 year old phones right now is a bit of a reach. In 20 years I suspect there will be far more older phones around.

I'm aware that the cell industry is still younger . . . but has there ever been an industry where the cell phone model (planned obsolescence and constant consumerism) has been replaced by long term value things that you keep for a long while?  I honestly can't think of one.

FINate

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #80 on: September 18, 2017, 01:19:51 PM »
stuff

Pretty sure he's comparing the modern cell phone with tech from the 90's, in which case it can replace a PC, is a high quality camera, is high quality audio, and allows you to access all sorts of media that would've been merely a dream at the time.

Of course, there are many cheaper options currently that do all of those things, but I think the overall point was "this shit is magical, whether it costs $200 or $1000 it would've been unheard of even 20 years ago, so it's not all that big of a deal. The cost of the equivalent of an iphone camera/video recorder, device to connect to the internet, and quality music player (not to mention the music to put on it) would have been well over $1000 in 1995."

Pretty much.  Young people today mostly lack perspective in what it takes to deliver these magical little boxes.  For example, it will cost roughly $13B to set up and compete with one fabrication facility for the next generation of high density memory chips.  These suckers have 3D memory arrays reading voltages at electron levels (which actually suggests the memory density improvements may slow soon).  Thats just one part.

But GuitarSiv knows better, so facepunch away.  No one could possibly get $1000 worth of value from a phone (equal to 10 spa treatments, 20 nice dinners, 30 tanks of gas, auto insurance for 6 months, etc.).

I get that cellphones have a lot of impressive technology.  I question if it's really as good a deal as we're being sold though.

Let's say you're a professional photographer.  You have real need of a camera.  Do you go out and buy a cell phone?  No.  You buy a professional level camera.  "AHA!  You say . . . yeah, cell phone cameras are obviously not competitive with good stuff.  I don't need a professional camera, I just need to take pictures of random stuff on a regular basis."  To this, I have to ask 'Why is that a need?'.  Just because you can do stuff with a cellphone doesn't mean that it makes the world a better place when you do it.  The vast majority of cell phone functions fall under this category . . . kinda neat, lived perfectly happily without it before, suddenly being able to do this is a need.

I am deeply disturbed at the use it and toss it culture of cell phones.  It's pretty rare for someone to have a four year old phone, let along a ten year old one . . . and these phones are being tossed by the hundreds of millions every year.

Same here. I hate the way that OS upgrades make an old phone so slow it becomes almost unusable forcing an upgrade.

FYI - there's a way for Android users to reduce or disable the amount of animation in the UI, and each OS release seems to add increasingly more animation. Setting animation factors to 0.5x (or 0x, though this can cause problems with certain apps) greatly improves performance of older phones. I even change it on newer phones because Android feels sluggish to me otherwise. I posted about this last month:

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/squeeze-more-life-from-your-android-phone/

ooeei

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #81 on: September 18, 2017, 01:53:14 PM »
I'm aware that the cell industry is still younger . . . but has there ever been an industry where the cell phone model (planned obsolescence and constant consumerism) has been replaced by long term value things that you keep for a long while?  I honestly can't think of one.

I'm not sure it'll be so much that the average person keeps it for awhile, I suspect it'll be more like cars. There's always the group who gets a new one every 2-3 years and then trades it in. Then there is the group of people who buy those used ones and keep them for a few years. Then there is the further group who buys THOSE used ones and runs them into the ground.

I know a lot of older people who keep their phones around 4 years as of now, which is 2 years longer than required by most contracts. They basically only get rid of it when it stops working, and quality phones from 4 years ago are still very functional.  Also consider how many companies have "trade in" deals to get the latest and greatest new phones, not to mention those kiosks in grocery stores that pay you for a used phone. They aren't throwing away what all of those people trade in, they're turning around and selling them used.

In reality you may be right, because phones aren't as expensive as cars and break much easier. I think a big part of it will be whether people continue shifting toward prepaid service rather than postpaid contracts that include a phone payment plan. There will always be people out there who will throw away anything they don't want, but the longer something holds value, the more likely people are to sell it or trade it in rather than trashing it.

geekette

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #82 on: September 18, 2017, 03:20:54 PM »
Some professionals (especially travel photographers) do use cell phone cameras almost exclusively, even as far back as 2013:

From an article highlighting some of the first published photos from the iPhone 8: Today, Mann shoots a lot of his work with an iPhone. He said he plays to the smartphone's strengths. For example, mobile devices make it easy to capture spontaneous moments because they're always with you and easy to pull out.

I'll agree with others that state all the abilities of the modern smart phone aren't needed, but they sure are useful.  Not refrigeration level useful, but very useful.

What bugs me is not that they get tossed - most get passed along.  It's those who keep older smart phones in a drawer instead.  I find that wasteful, because chances are, they'll never come out of that drawer until they're tossed during the next move. 

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #83 on: September 18, 2017, 04:30:22 PM »
I'm aware that the cell industry is still younger . . . but has there ever been an industry where the cell phone model (planned obsolescence and constant consumerism) has been replaced by long term value things that you keep for a long while?  I honestly can't think of one.

Plowhorses to tractors...
Several initiatives in women's health and reproductive planning...
"Permanent" makeup tattoos...
Igloos to houses...

Sorry, I can't think of more at the moment. It's difficult, I grant you.

solon

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #84 on: September 18, 2017, 04:35:22 PM »

sorry, don't know why this is so huge

GuitarStv

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #85 on: September 18, 2017, 05:48:49 PM »
I'm aware that the cell industry is still younger . . . but has there ever been an industry where the cell phone model (planned obsolescence and constant consumerism) has been replaced by long term value things that you keep for a long while?  I honestly can't think of one.

Plowhorses to tractors...
Several initiatives in women's health and reproductive planning...
"Permanent" makeup tattoos...
Igloos to houses...

Sorry, I can't think of more at the moment. It's difficult, I grant you.

Plowhorses were planned obsolescence and constant consumerism?  They had 20 - 30 year working lives . . . and you could make your own replacements as long as you had two mostly agreeable models.  :P


LennStar

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #87 on: September 19, 2017, 01:17:24 AM »
I didn't read the article but I have guessed that the new Iphones that come in a year or two will be $1000+. I'm sure phone companies will find a way to market them with less sticker shock (charge X per month if you have a plan with them). Makes me glad that as I use my phone primarily for work I don't have to pay for it.
Sticker shock will be dealt with the same as cars.  When I was coming out of college, most car loans were 36 months.  48 was crazy long.  Now we have 72 months and I've seen some 84.  Given that sucker consumers never keep their cars that long they just sign on to a perpetual payment, much like a lease.  So they'll extend the phone payment outs to 36 months now which will place the payment between $27-$28/month right about what they are now and even a little less than the last iPhone which was $31.25 for the 24 month term.  So they'll sell it to people as less expensive, because $27 is less than $31.25.  And most will go right along since they can't actually do math.

Agreed. And I'm sure the companies will throw in a kicker where you can trade in your phone each year for only $____ to get the latest model.
Sadly, most phones seem to start to go nuts after two years.  If you're into conspiracy theories might want to even say that they design them to fail, i.e. engineered obsolescence.  I'm happy that my current phone has made it as long as it has and I will ride this one into the ground, but previous basic phones barely made it to the two year mark before they basically ceased to function, and I'm really careful with my phones.  I think if they extend there contracts phones will fail before they end and people will be in that cycle like with cars.

No conspiracy theories necessary.  Apple (for example) is well known for releasing IOS updates that purposely slow down older hardware immediately before they do new product launches.

Apple officially (in court) announced that people should not expect their phones to work longer then the 1 year limited guarantee.

ooeei

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #88 on: September 19, 2017, 06:34:50 AM »
Apple officially (in court) announced that people should not expect their phones to work longer then the 1 year limited guarantee.

Yeah, the same way car companies don't expect your car to last longer than 60,000 miles...

That court case is about warranty claims, not planned obsolescence. I don't know of too many products out there that provide free service after the warranty period is expired.

talltexan

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #89 on: September 20, 2017, 07:19:34 AM »
Iphone 3G: purchased in July 2008
Iphone 4S: purchased in 2011 (don't remember the month, but I'm pretty sure it was May or later)
Iphone 6S: purchased in Dec. 2014 (and still using).

It's been pretty easy for me to average 3 years with these things. They are durable.

GuitarStv

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #90 on: September 20, 2017, 07:56:10 AM »
Iphone 3G: purchased in July 2008
Iphone 4S: purchased in 2011 (don't remember the month, but I'm pretty sure it was May or later)
Iphone 6S: purchased in Dec. 2014 (and still using).

It's been pretty easy for me to average 3 years with these things. They are durable.

Durable things get used for decades and then passed down to your kids.  You've 'needed' to purchase three phones in 9 years, do you really want to stick with the term 'durable'?

LennStar

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #91 on: September 20, 2017, 12:18:35 PM »
Iphone 3G: purchased in July 2008
Iphone 4S: purchased in 2011 (don't remember the month, but I'm pretty sure it was May or later)
Iphone 6S: purchased in Dec. 2014 (and still using).

It's been pretty easy for me to average 3 years with these things. They are durable.

I am on my third phone since 2003, and the second I gave away because I needed a 2 SIM one.

The first was the famous Nokia one that everybody had back then (and which was really durable, 9 years), the second and third cost 30€ each (dumb phones).

Cadman

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #92 on: September 20, 2017, 02:08:05 PM »
Everything in context. I would say that a piece of consumer electronics with half its surface area being glass and typically carried on your person every single day surviving at least 3 years could be termed durable. If nothing else, it's eclipsed the obsolescence curve.

I also know someone that broke the screen of their new phone while it was in their pocket, the very week they bought it. It too, was an iPhone. I think the moral here is that whatever phone you have, if you exercise care, it should last a whole lot longer than the warranty period.


farfromfire

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #93 on: September 24, 2017, 12:43:39 PM »
Public wireless charging will also be safer - no possibility of plugging in to something that could damage your phone or steal info (I don't know that this is common, but I've read warnings about charging in airports).
Adding another communication protocol (wireless charging) => adding an additional attack vector.

JAYSLOL

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #94 on: September 24, 2017, 07:45:38 PM »
Apple officially (in court) announced that people should not expect their phones to work longer then the 1 year limited guarantee.

Yeah, the same way car companies don't expect your car to last longer than 60,000 miles...

That court case is about warranty claims, not planned obsolescence. I don't know of too many products out there that provide free service after the warranty period is expired.

Yep, I had a teacher that used to work for GM and told me that the company response to the question "what do i do with my car now that the warranty is up?" is "crush it, and get a new one. We don't guarantee it anymore".  There's some planned obsolescence in most products, but the majority of it legal cover-your-ass stuff. 

I'm on my third iPhone, I got a iPhone 4 in early 2010 and it died a year or so later when a tour boat i was on capsized, obviously not Apples fault.  I then got a 4S when they first came out as a replacement for my water-logged one and it lasted for 5 years until i broke the screen and it wasn't worth getting fixed.  I got an SE now and so far no issues, i'll try to get 5 years out of it as well before upgrading.

ooeei

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #95 on: September 25, 2017, 06:25:37 AM »
Iphone 3G: purchased in July 2008
Iphone 4S: purchased in 2011 (don't remember the month, but I'm pretty sure it was May or later)
Iphone 6S: purchased in Dec. 2014 (and still using).

It's been pretty easy for me to average 3 years with these things. They are durable.

Durable things get used for decades and then passed down to your kids.  You've 'needed' to purchase three phones in 9 years, do you really want to stick with the term 'durable'?

Idk, there are plenty of "durable" shoes that last less than 5 years if you are actually hard on them. Durable is a relative term. If you want to wait to use a phone until they last 200 years like a cast iron pan, good luck. I'd consider the average bicycle to be durable, but don't know of many that have been passed down from people's grandparents.

With how small a phone is, I think it's probably better for the environment to replace a phone every 3 years than it is to replace a computer every 15, or a car every 30.

Daley

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #96 on: September 25, 2017, 09:28:27 AM »
http://www.businessinsider.com/what-you-can-buy-for-the-price-of-an-iphone-in-india-2017-6

This is a good start... but let's add some depth and focus on India specifically, given that's the locus of the Business Insider article focuses - especially for the "this price point is totally okay" crowd.

From the BI article, we are talking about spending enough money on a pocket communication device to do the following in India for just the price of an iPhone 6S (some of these numbers can actually translate cleanly into USD cost of living figures for some of us in the community, too):

-Pay for one year of groceries.
-Pay for four years of water and electric bills.
-Pay for four years of internet access.
-Pay for six months of car loans.
-Pay for one year of petrol.
-Pay for one month of rent.

But, let's add in an uncomfortable topic, such as debt bondage. Of the 14 million plus slaves in India alone despite the illegality of it, many of them have gone into indefinite debt bondage for loans as small as $14-214 USD. So, by including these numbers, the price of an iPhone 6s in India can also:

-Literally buy the freedom of anywhere between three to 46 people who would otherwise be trapped in debt bondage.

And that's for a sub-$700 handset these days. Just let those numbers percolate a bit in your head before you go and shell out $1000+ for a tiny new slab of electronics. You're staggeringly privileged just to have the technology available in the first place, so do you really need to spend that much money on something that basically does the same things as a model potentially 1/10th the price or less?

This is hedonic adaptation at its worst. Next time someone gets an itch around here to defend paying for or actually paying $1000+ for a pocket computer phone, consider gearing down to something cheaper and smaller and give the difference to a non-profit striving to deal with some of the various forms of human slavery throughout the world instead, such as:

Children of the Night
Coalition to Abolish Slavery & Trafficking (CAST)
Free the Slaves
International Justice Mission
ZOE International

Our host has always made a point to mention that one's financial freedom is done so for the sake of the betterment of the world. What better way to make the world a better place than to not spend money on a luxury good and give that money to help others escape slavery instead? After all, it's just a thousand dollars...
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 09:37:59 AM by I.P. Daley »

dragoncar

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #97 on: September 25, 2017, 12:05:10 PM »
Try as I might, I couldn't avoid the news about the new iCrap being announced yesterday.  I watched a video by the Verge about the new iPhones, and sure enough in the comments, were posts like "broke android fanbois can't afford the new iPhone...".

For some reason this stuff really triggered me. 


The part where they put the iPhone x, AirPods, and Apple Watch on a single wireless charger. “Now you can charge all your Apple devices in one place”

I rolled my eyes so hard... yeah that’s happening

dragoncar

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #98 on: September 25, 2017, 12:11:08 PM »
I didn't read the article but I have guessed that the new Iphones that come in a year or two will be $1000+. I'm sure phone companies will find a way to market them with less sticker shock (charge X per month if you have a plan with them). Makes me glad that as I use my phone primarily for work I don't have to pay for it.
Sticker shock will be dealt with the same as cars.  When I was coming out of college, most car loans were 36 months.  48 was crazy long.  Now we have 72 months and I've seen some 84.  Given that sucker consumers never keep their cars that long they just sign on to a perpetual payment, much like a lease.  So they'll extend the phone payment outs to 36 months now which will place the payment between $27-$28/month right about what they are now and even a little less than the last iPhone which was $31.25 for the 24 month term.  So they'll sell it to people as less expensive, because $27 is less than $31.25.  And most will go right along since they can't actually do math.

Agreed. And I'm sure the companies will throw in a kicker where you can trade in your phone each year for only $____ to get the latest model.
Sadly, most phones seem to start to go nuts after two years.  If you're into conspiracy theories might want to even say that they design them to fail, i.e. engineered obsolescence.  I'm happy that my current phone has made it as long as it has and I will ride this one into the ground, but previous basic phones barely made it to the two year mark before they basically ceased to function, and I'm really careful with my phones.  I think if they extend there contracts phones will fail before they end and people will be in that cycle like with cars.

Can confirm, I just spent $20 replacing some dumb component that killed my WiFi/gps reception.  Yes i actually “need” gps to work sometimes. I also updated to ios11, which I know will be slower but I want those security updates.

As for monthly payments, i just unlocked my phone after two years on contract.  The last subsidized phone I’ll have I guess, but I was paying $40 marginal line cost.  Now I pay $10 marginal line cost, but no subsidy.  So I noticed I could use the Apple upgrade plan and pay a similar total $40/mo for service and phone.  But then I realized that was dumb and I should just reap the rewards of loweeed monthly cost.  Nevertheless, I’m looking for a Black Friday sale on iPhone 7 since I want a nicer camera for baby photos.  I disagree with those who say the cameras are crap— the best camera is the one you have in your hand, not in a bag somewhere or left at home in your closet.




dragoncar

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Re: Your New Phone Will Probably Cost You $1,000!
« Reply #99 on: September 25, 2017, 12:13:35 PM »
Public wireless charging will also be safer - no possibility of plugging in to something that could damage your phone or steal info (I don't know that this is common, but I've read warnings about charging in airports).

I know they changed the back to glass to enable wireless charging, but can it be charged with a case? 

Apple does support much longer, and doesn't come with bloatware (although I did hear someone complain that the Stocks app is useless to her, because why would she have anything in the stock market).  Even my 8 year old iMac is eligible for the latest Mac OS.

I’d like to avoid the glass back since I know it’s gonna break.  There are also ways to damage your phone with wireless charging, although I think the fear of Rogue chargers is overblown (destructive ones)