Your job is costing you

[MissNancyPryor]

http://www.aol.com/article/2016/07/15/your-job-will-cost-you-3-300-this-year/21432834/

No, not even close, I am far below this average on actual money spent.  No lunches out, no sbux unless it is on a gift card given to me, minimal budget for clothes.  Short commute, I fill up the car only once a month.  Kids are out of the house.  The tips they suggest are remedial in Mustachian terms. 

The mental and physical cost is much greater for me if I had to put a dollar figure on that.  That number is the one that I am working through as I trade my time.  Maybe I could write an article on that, it would be far more interesting than this same old stuff we have seen trotted out again and again.     

     

[Metric Mouse]

I love how coffee is considered a "job expense."  Do people not drink coffee on days they don't go to work?

[Million2000]

The article has a calculator to compare your expenses with the average person with the same income in your city. I wasn't surprised by the results, but my wife and I kept asking ourselves "How do they spend so much on that?". Food for instance was 4 times what we spend, "How could they eat 4 times what we eat? We already eat way too much." then we realized that amount was probably for eating out too, something we don't do except once in a blue moon. We are so naive.

[sparkytheop]

Not even close for me either.

I make my own coffee at home (or bring some and make it at work).

I have a four mile commute, so minimal transportation costs (used to be much larger at my old job, when I worked 45 miles from home.  Was able to car pool for many years, keeping those expenses down).

Work clothing is provided, including shoes, jeans, shirts, even a jacket for cold weather.

I've packed my own lunch since I started my first job.

My son is 18 with his own part time job (full time college student, even during the summer term), so no daycare costs.

I do realize I'm very fortunate for my area, not a lot of jobs like mine out there. 

[fattest_foot]

The article has a calculator to compare your expenses with the average person with the same income in your city. I wasn't surprised by the results, but my wife and I kept asking ourselves "How do they spend so much on that?". Food for instance was 4 times what we spend, "How could they eat 4 times what we eat? We already eat way too much." then we realized that amount was probably for eating out too, something we don't do except once in a blue moon. We are so naive.

There's no way that the calculator is accurate. I think it just takes a base income and has a percentage dedicated to each category. As you move further away from the base income, the ratios start to look ridiculous. For mine, it has a $1400 food budget for 2 adults, and nearly $2500 housing budget (we spend about $1500 to include mortgage, utilities, taxes, and insurance, and live in one of the nicest neighborhoods in town).

[Chris22]

Childcare is one thing, but even that we'd probably be paying for preschool anyways, so that's a wash.  Other than that, do people who don't work not leave their house ever?  I'd still have to eat food and buy gas even if I never worked, because I'd go stir crazy sitting in the house all day every day.  In some respects, having a job saves me money, because I'd probably be out spending money entertaining myself if I wasn't at work. 

[stoaX]

For Mustachians this article is kindergarten stuff.  But if it gets some non-mustachians to start thinking about their money and where it goes, then there's some value to it. 

[MrsPete]

This is a poorly titled article.  It implies that we're all "going in the hole" by working.  It wasn't even a very complete article.  It didn't mention dry cleaning, haircuts, ponying up for co-workers wedding gifts, or any number of things typically included in this type of article.  It didn't even mention higher tax brackets when two spouses work.

Like all of you, I can't relate to the idea of buying Starbucks (or even cheap coffee) daily.  Or ever.  I'm not in a job that requires an impressive wardrobe.  I don't fill my gas take every week.  I don't have children who need child care. 

And, at the same time, many of these expenses are just life expenses.  Whether I work or not, I will occasionally go out to lunch with girlfriends, will still be asked to buy GS cookies, and I still need the occasional hair cut. 

However, I do agree with those of you who say that every worker should calculate how much he or she is spending to work.  None of us can do it literally for free. 

[Goldielocks]

I love how coffee is considered a "job expense."  Do people not drink coffee on days they don't go to work?

I get a lot of free coffee at work -- my coffee budget increases when I don't work, or work from home, actually.

[Metric Mouse]

I love how coffee is considered a "job expense."  Do people not drink coffee on days they don't go to work?

I get a lot of free coffee at work -- my coffee budget increases when I don't work, or work from home, actually.

You should probably write an article about how retirement is silly and no one should do it because they haven't clearly thought about their coffee budget! And what about leisure clothes- without being able to wear work attire everyday, one would have to replace so much of their wardrobe!  :D It seems there's no shortage of websites that would publish such things.

[brute]

I love how coffee is considered a "job expense."  Do people not drink coffee on days they don't go to work?

I get a lot of free coffee at work -- my coffee budget increases when I don't work, or work from home, actually.

You should probably write an article about how retirement is silly and no one should do it because they haven't clearly thought about their coffee budget! And what about leisure clothes- without being able to wear work attire everyday, one would have to replace so much of their wardrobe!  :D It seems there's no shortage of websites that would publish such things.

Wait, you don't dress business casual when you work from home? I for one am deeply offended by the idea of not wearing at least a blazer when grilling hamburgers.

Back to the real world. It makes me sad that the last two places I've worked don't offer free coffee. How do they expect a data scientist to be productive if not strung out on caffeine?

[MgoSam]

I love how coffee is considered a "job expense."  Do people not drink coffee on days they don't go to work?

It is for me, but then again I'm the one buying my office's coffee.

[Daisyedwards800]

I think Mr. Money Mustache would agree that your job is costing you, but in different ways.  For example, that you need to live closer to work does increase the cost of living. 

[Metric Mouse]

I think Mr. Money Mustache would agree that your job is costing you, but in different ways.  For example, that you need to live closer to work does may increase the cost of living.

FTFY. Though MustacheMath would suggest that your original phrasing was correct.

[Prairie Stash]

http://www.aol.com/article/2016/07/15/your-job-will-cost-you-3-300-this-year/21432834/

No, not even close, I am far below this average on actual money spent.  No lunches out, no sbux unless it is on a gift card given to me, minimal budget for clothes.  Short commute, I fill up the car only once a month.  Kids are out of the house.  The tips they suggest are remedial in Mustachian terms. 

The mental and physical cost is much greater for me if I had to put a dollar figure on that.  That number is the one that I am working through as I trade my time.  Maybe I could write an article on that, it would be far more interesting than this same old stuff we have seen trotted out again and again.     

   

You should be under half, without kids. The article points out that daycare is the biggest expense, if you remove daycare the average worker is spending $1560/year (29% of those surveyed spend $6K/year on average, pretty big piece). I bet you're still under, but lets compare numbers that reflect people of your cohort.

http://www.careerbuilder.com/share/aboutus/pressreleasesdetail.aspx?sd=6%2f16%2f2016&siteid=cbpr&sc_cmp1=cb_pr955_&id=pr955&ed=12%2f31%2f2016

Survey breakdown to see where you fit, it seems people average $30/week without daycare. 72% of people bring a lunch, 51% of people don't buy coffee, 63% spend under $25/week on gas, there's a large cohort that spend very little and a minority of  people who dramatically bring up the average!

[Jack]

I drink coffee only at work because it is the only beverage (other than water) offered for free. At home, I prefer iced tea or soda.

Beyond that, my major work expenses are eating out occasionally (maybe once a week on average) and bicycle-commuting-related things (athletic clothing, lights/panniers/baskets/etc., chain lube, and other maintenance items such as the annoyingly-expensive bearing rebuild kit I just bought for my Crank Bros clipless pedals).

[brute]

I drink coffee only at work because it is the only beverage (other than water) offered for free. At home, I prefer iced tea or soda.

Beyond that, my major work expenses are eating out occasionally (maybe once a week on average) and bicycle-commuting-related things (athletic clothing, lights/panniers/baskets/etc., chain lube, and other maintenance items such as the annoyingly-expensive bearing rebuild kit I just bought for my Crank Bros clipless pedals).

Bolded a good idea for myself. I drink about 3 diet sodas a day. I'm tired of the expense, even if it isn't huge. Iced tea is probably a good way to replace this.

[TheAnonOne]

These numbers may be high and/or low but this is a valid point either way. Work costs you money.

Your not losing money overall by working but everything about worth, other than the paycheck, is a negative. It takes time(you could use to earn money elsewhere), clothes, gas, car maintenance, and in-opportune food choices.

ER Blogs have shown this, the costs of living drop pretty nicely after retirement.

[sparkytheop]

These numbers may be high and/or low but this is a valid point either way. Work costs you money.

Your not losing money overall by working but everything about worth, other than the paycheck, is a negative. It takes time(you could use to earn money elsewhere), clothes, gas, car maintenance, and in-opportune food choices.

ER Blogs have shown this, the costs of living drop pretty nicely after retirement.

Work pays for clothes (shirts, pants, boots, jacket, sweatshirt).  Four mile commute-- I drive more than that on a lot of my days off, so car maintenance and gas is negligible.  I take my food to work, so no more, no less. 

Because of my hobbies (travel, quilting, photography), I'm likely to spend more once I'm retired.  However, I won't be attempting to save as much of my paycheck as possible, so that will be nice.

That said, I'd much rather be retired than working!

[MgoSam]

I drink coffee only at work because it is the only beverage (other than water) offered for free. At home, I prefer iced tea or soda.

Beyond that, my major work expenses are eating out occasionally (maybe once a week on average) and bicycle-commuting-related things (athletic clothing, lights/panniers/baskets/etc., chain lube, and other maintenance items such as the annoyingly-expensive bearing rebuild kit I just bought for my Crank Bros clipless pedals).

Bolded a good idea for myself. I drink about 3 diet sodas a day. I'm tired of the expense, even if it isn't huge. Iced tea is probably a good way to replace this.

I know of a few people that switched to carbonated water (either buying it or buying SodaStream) to reduce their soda intake. If iced tea doesn't work, I would recommend this.

[SpacemanSpiff]

I love how coffee is considered a "job expense."  Do people not drink coffee on days they don't go to work?

I don't drink coffee if I'm not at work (same for tea and pop).  That being said, my coffee drinking is only a cup or two a day when it's really hectic at work and zero per day most days (or maybe a diet pepsi if there's no free coffee at whichever client I'm at).

[kayvent]

I love how coffee is considered a "job expense."  Do people not drink coffee on days they don't go to work?

Some don't. Outside of work I drink coffee once a year at home and perhaps once a month if I'm at friends' or out? At work I'd say that 30 ounces (three cups) on a slow day. Easily over 60-90% of my alcohol consumption is at work as well. Work covers both expenses.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

I drink coffee only at work because it is the only beverage (other than water) offered for free. At home, I prefer iced tea or soda.

Beyond that, my major work expenses are eating out occasionally (maybe once a week on average) and bicycle-commuting-related things (athletic clothing, lights/panniers/baskets/etc., chain lube, and other maintenance items such as the annoyingly-expensive bearing rebuild kit I just bought for my Crank Bros clipless pedals).

Bolded a good idea for myself. I drink about 3 diet sodas a day. I'm tired of the expense, even if it isn't huge. Iced tea is probably a good way to replace this.

If you want something decaffeinated, get some mint plants and let them loose outdoors. They like poor growing conditions and plenty of abuse, but need to be able to reach moist soil.

There's nothing as nice as freshly picked mint leaves with boiling water poured over them to make tea, then steep it for a minute or two and dump what's left over ice, leaves and all. It pays for the cost of the plants or seed within a week or two, and after that point it's a free beverage. Cut sprigs of it in the late summer, hang it upside down to dry, and then in the middle of winter just take a sprig and dump it in hot water where it will green up and reanimate like a little plant zombie.

Sun tea, hot tea, tea with lemon, tea with honey, tea-o-freaking-rama and all of it free.

[mm1970]

I drink coffee only at work because it is the only beverage (other than water) offered for free. At home, I prefer iced tea or soda.

Beyond that, my major work expenses are eating out occasionally (maybe once a week on average) and bicycle-commuting-related things (athletic clothing, lights/panniers/baskets/etc., chain lube, and other maintenance items such as the annoyingly-expensive bearing rebuild kit I just bought for my Crank Bros clipless pedals).

Bolded a good idea for myself. I drink about 3 diet sodas a day. I'm tired of the expense, even if it isn't huge. Iced tea is probably a good way to replace this.

Plus diet sodas are SOOO bad for you. I  had a 30 year addiction to diet coke.  Thankfully, pregnancy meant I couldn't stand the taste anymore.  Never fear, I switched to diet dr pepper. :(  But then shortly after, I switched to iced tea.

Then at 40 I started drinking coffee.

My husband went the other way.  He didn't drink caffeine at all.  After kid #1 he went to a job that had free soda, and started hitting the Diet Dr Pepper pretty hard.  So I slowly and surely got him to drink iced tea.  After kid #2, he started drinking coffee.

[jorjor]

At the bottom of the article is a retirement calculator. It allows up to a 40% savings rate in the inputs. Hmmm..I click on the "See a more detailed answer" and it takes me to SmartAsset.com which looks like it has some pretty cool calculators.

So I got to the retirement calculator there because I'm bored. It has some pop-ups to enter inputs? "How much are you saving per month?" I put in my number...

"Monthly savings amount should be at most 40% of your monthly income. We have updated your savings amount to 40%."

Hahahahahahahahaha okay thanks.

[renata ricotta]

At the bottom of the article is a retirement calculator. It allows up to a 40% savings rate in the inputs. Hmmm..I click on the "See a more detailed answer" and it takes me to SmartAsset.com which looks like it has some pretty cool calculators.

So I got to the retirement calculator there because I'm bored. It has some pop-ups to enter inputs? "How much are you saving per month?" I put in my number...

"Monthly savings amount should be at most 40% of your monthly income. We have updated your savings amount to 40%."

Hahahahahahahahaha okay thanks.

... Or what? What if you're making 10 million dollars a year? Are you required to find $6M worth of stuff to buy, OR ELSE?

[kimmarg]

That makes no sense. How do they get $3300 including childcare? At $860/month I hit $10k in childcare alone. And yes, I usually do bring my own coffee!

[Metric Mouse]

At the bottom of the article is a retirement calculator. It allows up to a 40% savings rate in the inputs. Hmmm..I click on the "See a more detailed answer" and it takes me to SmartAsset.com which looks like it has some pretty cool calculators.

So I got to the retirement calculator there because I'm bored. It has some pop-ups to enter inputs? "How much are you saving per month?" I put in my number...

"Monthly savings amount should be at most 40% of your monthly income. We have updated your savings amount to 40%."

Hahahahahahahahaha okay thanks.

... Or what? What if you're making 10 million dollars a year? Are you required to find $6M worth of stuff to buy, OR ELSE?

Wouldn't be so bad for a few years. Save 4 million a year for five years, and retire fabulously rich after having 5 years of fantastic, over-the-top-once-in-a-lifetime experiences.

[TheAnonOne]

At the bottom of the article is a retirement calculator. It allows up to a 40% savings rate in the inputs. Hmmm..I click on the "See a more detailed answer" and it takes me to SmartAsset.com which looks like it has some pretty cool calculators.

So I got to the retirement calculator there because I'm bored. It has some pop-ups to enter inputs? "How much are you saving per month?" I put in my number...

"Monthly savings amount should be at most 40% of your monthly income. We have updated your savings amount to 40%."

Hahahahahahahahaha okay thanks.

... Or what? What if you're making 10 million dollars a year? Are you required to find $6M worth of stuff to buy, OR ELSE?

Wouldn't be so bad for a few years. Save 4 million a year for five years, and retire fabulously rich after having 5 years of fantastic, over-the-top-once-in-a-lifetime experiences.

You couldn't spend that much on experiences. Chances are, you would end up buying toys and other houses. Luckily all of these things have asset values, so your kinda saving more than 4m...

[kayvent]

At the bottom of the article is a retirement calculator. It allows up to a 40% savings rate in the inputs. Hmmm..I click on the "See a more detailed answer" and it takes me to SmartAsset.com which looks like it has some pretty cool calculators.

So I got to the retirement calculator there because I'm bored. It has some pop-ups to enter inputs? "How much are you saving per month?" I put in my number...

"Monthly savings amount should be at most 40% of your monthly income. We have updated your savings amount to 40%."

Hahahahahahahahaha okay thanks.

... Or what? What if you're making 10 million dollars a year? Are you required to find $6M worth of stuff to buy, OR ELSE?

It is mandatory to spend that much. If you're making eight figures and you're not bribing politicians, the fuzz will be on you like white on rice.

[Metric Mouse]

At the bottom of the article is a retirement calculator. It allows up to a 40% savings rate in the inputs. Hmmm..I click on the "See a more detailed answer" and it takes me to SmartAsset.com which looks like it has some pretty cool calculators.

So I got to the retirement calculator there because I'm bored. It has some pop-ups to enter inputs? "How much are you saving per month?" I put in my number...

"Monthly savings amount should be at most 40% of your monthly income. We have updated your savings amount to 40%."

Hahahahahahahahaha okay thanks.

... Or what? What if you're making 10 million dollars a year? Are you required to find $6M worth of stuff to buy, OR ELSE?

It is mandatory to spend that much. If you're making eight figures and you're not bribing politicians, the fuzz will be on you like white on rice.

Or the one being bribed.

[joleran]

You couldn't spend that much on experiences. Chances are, you would end up buying toys and other houses. Luckily all of these things have asset values, so your kinda saving more than 4m...

I beg to differ.  One private performance by Adele, a trip to the ISS, or playing a casual game of baseball with the starting lineup of the Mets would all blow through your entire $6m/yr spend for a good number of years, and that's just for a single experience.

[MoneyCat]

I don't understand the Starbucks phenomenon at all. If you are going to pay $5/cup for coffee, why not just buy a huge bag of uber-expensive Kona Coffee and brew it at home for $5/pot instead? At least then you would have some freakin' amazing coffee for your money instead of that bitter piss they sell at Starbucks.

[kayvent]

I don't understand the Starbucks phenomenon at all. If you are going to pay $5/cup for coffee, why not just buy a huge bag of uber-expensive Kona Coffee and brew it at home for $5/pot instead? At least then you would have some freakin' amazing coffee for your money instead of that bitter piss they sell at Starbucks.

Fair trade coffee bothers me for this same reason. You can look it up online for more info. Fair Trade coffee is a grade lower than the price would dictate. The surplus goes towards the landowners of the coffee fields. Casually, we can say that premium coffee is the same price as Fair Trade but premium coffee is more labour intensive. The price increase goes towards the labourers.

There was a movement about Fair Trade Coffee at university. I started a counter-movement to get people to buy higher grade coffees instead of shit-poor coffee at high prices so they could feel good about getting into a fad (my words and 'flyers' were more elegant than this coarse monologue).

[TheGrimSqueaker]

You couldn't spend that much on experiences. Chances are, you would end up buying toys and other houses. Luckily all of these things have asset values, so your kinda saving more than 4m...

I beg to differ.  One private performance by Adele, a trip to the ISS, or playing a casual game of baseball with the starting lineup of the Mets would all blow through your entire $6m/yr spend for a good number of years, and that's just for a single experience.

Wasn't that the plot of "Brewster's Millions"?

[MoneyCat]

I don't understand the Starbucks phenomenon at all. If you are going to pay $5/cup for coffee, why not just buy a huge bag of uber-expensive Kona Coffee and brew it at home for $5/pot instead? At least then you would have some freakin' amazing coffee for your money instead of that bitter piss they sell at Starbucks.

Fair trade coffee bothers me for this same reason. You can look it up online for more info. Fair Trade coffee is a grade lower than the price would dictate. The surplus goes towards the landowners of the coffee fields. Casually, we can say that premium coffee is the same price as Fair Trade but premium coffee is more labour intensive. The price increase goes towards the labourers.

There was a movement about Fair Trade Coffee at university. I started a counter-movement to get people to buy higher grade coffees instead of shit-poor coffee at high prices so they could feel good about getting into a fad (my words and 'flyers' were more elegant than this coarse monologue).

Yeah, if they are going the "fair trade" route then they may as well buy Kona Coffee because unlike most coffee, it is grown in Hawaii where everyone gets at least minimum wage in its production plus everyone has state-sponsored health insurance and retirement. They can show their support for fair wages by giving their business to people who actually pay fair wages and get superior coffee to boot.

[stoaX]

I don't understand the Starbucks phenomenon at all. If you are going to pay $5/cup for coffee, why not just buy a huge bag of uber-expensive Kona Coffee and brew it at home for $5/pot instead? At least then you would have some freakin' amazing coffee for your money instead of that bitter piss they sell at Starbucks.

I think people are buying "$5 / cup of dessert masquerading as coffee".