Author Topic: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K  (Read 30236 times)

coin

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2016, 06:05:15 AM »
Asking for a specific amount and dismissing everyone below that metric just feels so tacky.

Probably because it is tacky. At least she's being honest, I guess?

The thing that never gets mentioned is just because somebody makes 100k currently doesn't necessarily mean they will always make 100k.  There's so many stories here in Australia about people who earn 6 figures working in a mine, then losing their jobs.

It also doesn't necessarily mean they're any more financially stable than somebody who makes less. Lots of "cashed up bogans" out here who have boats and jetskis but no savings.

Khaetra

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #51 on: January 12, 2016, 06:17:07 AM »
I've talked to women who say things like this.  "I won't be with anyone who makes less than X, doesn't drive at least X car, he has to have (ridiculous items here), etc.".  Sometimes I will run into them years later and they wonder why they are still single.

Racer X

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2016, 08:03:48 AM »
I was warned that women would want to use me for my money and cars.  Now that I have a little bit of both, I'm still waiting...   

bb11

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2016, 08:30:17 AM »
I have to also remind myself that she wants to remain in NYC. $100k salary in Brooklyn buys what $62k annually here Minnesota does.

Correct. $100k in NYC is not a lot of money due to the strong municipal jobs. NYPD earn $90k without OT in their sixth year and they only need two years of college. So they're earning six figures by the time they're 27. But I doubt the author would date a cop.

Well... In terms of buying a house possibly but otherwise I think those COL calculators are way off. I spent $18k in Brooklyn this year and live pretty well, what's that come to in Minnesota?

If that's her criteria then fair enough, no reason to change for anyone else. I'm glad I'm not dating her though, doesn't sound like the kind of person who would be happy with FIRE.

WGH

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #54 on: January 12, 2016, 12:14:41 PM »
Sagest advice I ever read:

"You can lose a lot of money chasing women but you will never lose women chasing money"

bb11

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #55 on: January 12, 2016, 12:25:52 PM »
Sagest advice I ever read:

"You can lose a lot of money chasing women but you will never lose women chasing money"

That's not really true though. I had a second job recently to make extra cash and my girlfriend told me that while she supported my choice she didn't really like it because it took away time we could spend together on weekends. And everyone's heard the story/stereotype of the father who is never there because he's too busy working and his wife ends up leaving him because of it.

NumberJohnny5

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #56 on: January 12, 2016, 03:05:25 PM »
Not trying to argue that question will endear you to others, or it's a great tactic for meeting a partner, just that the range of answers would be interesting and illustrative.  I'm not sure that says a lot about me, except I'm curious and interested in how people would answer such a question, but I suppose that's a matter of opinion.

In high school I was curious how people would react to an inappropriate question. So I asked girls (can I call them that if we were all in high school) what their bra size was. They all told me without much hesitation, like it was a normal question to ask. I expected at least one "Why do you want to know?" so I could respond with "Just want to see what people's reactions are." Nope, never got questioned.

Of course, I was a bit of an oddball, so perhaps they thought it was a completely normal question for me to be asking. Or I was extremely hot and they all wanted to date me. I think I'll go with #2.

mbk

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #57 on: January 12, 2016, 07:01:02 PM »
They both understood the lack of "independence" that implied for the stay at home pair of the couple
Kind of derailing the conversation here, but interesting that on the topic of "stay at home" nobody ever mentions the increased pressure on the one who works. I'm the one who works, and my wife chose to stay at home, initially I disagreed to the idea (in part because my - very modern and liberal - family did not understand that *I* had my wife stay at home) but she was happy about it so ultimately it worked out.

Nevertheless, there is now huge pressure for me to provide for my wife and 2 kids. I can't decide to "switch careers" all of a sudden and become, say, an artist, or a freelancer who would need to "grow up" their business for 5 years before making any significant money; as it would jeopardize our financial future.

I am in the same boat but no kids. In addition to the pressure, oppurtunity cost, there is the real loss in income, and thus the chance to double the savings. However, no matter what I try, my wife is not much into working outside the home.

pbkmaine

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #58 on: January 12, 2016, 07:04:08 PM »
Interesting, mbk, your wife just flatly refuses to work?

Gin1984

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #59 on: January 12, 2016, 07:22:46 PM »
Not trying to argue that question will endear you to others, or it's a great tactic for meeting a partner, just that the range of answers would be interesting and illustrative.  I'm not sure that says a lot about me, except I'm curious and interested in how people would answer such a question, but I suppose that's a matter of opinion.

In high school I was curious how people would react to an inappropriate question. So I asked girls (can I call them that if we were all in high school) what their bra size was. They all told me without much hesitation, like it was a normal question to ask. I expected at least one "Why do you want to know?" so I could respond with "Just want to see what people's reactions are." Nope, never got questioned.

Of course, I was a bit of an oddball, so perhaps they thought it was a completely normal question for me to be asking. Or I was extremely hot and they all wanted to date me. I think I'll go with #2.
Yes because you were asking girls.  I think it would have made your story weirder if you were in high school and asking grown women.  ;)

FrugalWad

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #60 on: January 12, 2016, 07:57:58 PM »
So someone has this fantasy in their heads. They build up this person who fulfills their desires, self-centered as they may be. That's fine; where better to focus on yourself than in your own head, after all?

But I wonder, at any point when they're trying to figure out how to get a person to fulfill their needs, if they ever ask how they'll be able to satisfy that person? I wonder in what ways they could convince themselves they deserve that particular person, how they'd even manage to keep that person, compared to anyone else. If you want someone so special, what makes you so special to attract them?

Do you think they ever ask that question of themselves, and then try to act in ways that make them desirable to their fantasy construct?

mizzourah2006

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #61 on: January 13, 2016, 08:53:20 AM »
She has a graduate degree, lives and works in NYC and makes 50k/yr after several years of work experience. I think she needs to look into switching careers or moving. That's the equivalent of about 27k where I live. She has every right to have that criteria for the men she dates. Something tells me she will have trouble finding a man comfortable with the amount of debt she is in, her salary, and her future salary prospects in a city like NYC. I think her expectations may be; "out of her league" given what she appears to bring to the table.

bb11

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2016, 09:09:33 AM »
She has a graduate degree, lives and works in NYC and makes 50k/yr after several years of work experience. I think she needs to look into switching careers or moving. That's the equivalent of about 27k where I live. She has every right to have that criteria for the men she dates. Something tells me she will have trouble finding a man comfortable with the amount of debt she is in, her salary, and her future salary prospects in a city like NYC. I think her expectations may be; "out of her league" given what she appears to bring to the table.

I think you give too much credit to the financial pickyness people use with potential partners, especially men. A lot of people just don't care all that much as long as you can support yourself. Hell someone making over $100k is probably even less likely to care because they think they can support themselves anyway. There are literally hundreds of thousands of men making six figures in NYC, there's no reason at all she couldn't pair with someone who doesn't think her finances are a concern. I personally know several six-figure income men dating/married to women with worse prospects than her.

coin

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #63 on: January 13, 2016, 10:36:02 PM »
So someone has this fantasy in their heads. They build up this person who fulfills their desires, self-centered as they may be. That's fine; where better to focus on yourself than in your own head, after all?

But I wonder, at any point when they're trying to figure out how to get a person to fulfill their needs, if they ever ask how they'll be able to satisfy that person? I wonder in what ways they could convince themselves they deserve that particular person, how they'd even manage to keep that person, compared to anyone else. If you want someone so special, what makes you so special to attract them?

Do you think they ever ask that question of themselves, and then try to act in ways that make them desirable to their fantasy construct?

Short answer: probably not.

Long answer: most people just assume that they're "good enough" and don't critically look at their assets and flaws.

Let's assume I woke up tomorrow and decided I want to be a trophy wife (ahahahaha). Sun Tsu once said all war is based upon deception, and the dating world is no different! So, I have to figure out how to trick convince somebody wealthy into marrying me.

To maximise my attractiveness to any prospective (rich) husbands, I would overhaul my diet and exercise regime, because, let's face it, nobody wants a trophy with an expiry date. Perhaps I would engage the services of a stylist and personal shopper to revamp my hair, makeup and wardrobe to enhance my most attractive features.

I would move jobs to a male dominated and highly compensated industry so my new work friends could perhaps introduce me to an eligible bachelor.  My evenings and lunch breaks will be consumed with keeping up to date in industry news, networking within my industry as well as cultivating socially acceptable, classy hobbies (e.g. Art appreciation or ancient history) as well as ones appealing to the demographic I'm targeting.

Assuming I find a nice rich man, I'll have to keep this charade up for long enough for it to either become the mask, or so my slide back into default doesn't look suspicious.  If I don't have anything approximating true commitment by 9-12 months in, it's time to cut loose and find the next mark.

No wonder girls who dream of a rich husband don't do anything to achieve this goal, it's too much like hard work! All this is a lot of work. Changing your entire lifestyle for the goal of a nice rich husband is way more effort than anyone I know would be willing to put in.

You're better off funneling your energies into a business or your own job and investments, or just by saying you'll only date wealthy men and hope there is one who likes you the way you are.

Tl;dr rich husbands are way too much effort
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 10:42:20 PM by coin »

nobodyspecial

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #64 on: January 13, 2016, 10:52:06 PM »
I would move jobs to a male dominated and highly compensated industry so my new work friends could perhaps introduce me to an eligible bachelor.
In many such fields - the odds are good but the goods are odd.

coin

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #65 on: January 13, 2016, 11:12:02 PM »
I would move jobs to a male dominated and highly compensated industry so my new work friends could perhaps introduce me to an eligible bachelor.
In many such fields - the odds are good but the goods are odd.

I'm in IT... I have used this explanation to my female friends why I would never inflict my IT friends on them for blind dates, haha.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 11:20:55 PM by coin »

The Happy Philosopher

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #66 on: January 14, 2016, 12:01:27 AM »
I wouldn't date a man who makes less than 100k either...but then again I wouldn't date a man who makes over 100k either so maybe I'm not qualified for this discussion ;)

Prairie Stash

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #67 on: January 14, 2016, 03:58:45 PM »
At my university they use to offer Home Economics degrees. The Engineering school (current median salary of 90K after 10 years) use to be 90%+ male dominated. Logically the solution to lonely engineers was to arrange situations like annual dances so that engineers could meet the Home Economics majors (or maybe the Home Ec. college arranged it?).  How many of those young ladies (I saw the class photos and they were 100% women, no sexism intended) met doctors, lawyers and engineers and attended school to do so? How many of the Engineers wanted to get a perfect house wife?

I'm sure some people go on to become a teacher, however I wonder if these colleges still do the same today? My high school had a Home Ec. teacher, she didn't have a degree though...

http://educhoices.org/articles/Home_Economics_School_List_of_Schools_with_Home_Economics_Degree_Programs.html

I'm sure those marriages were as successful as others, everyone got what they wanted.

ender

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #68 on: January 14, 2016, 04:04:48 PM »
I wouldn't date a man who makes less than 100k either...but then again I wouldn't date a man who makes over 100k either so maybe I'm not qualified for this discussion ;)

What if they make exactly 100k?

FrugalWad

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #69 on: January 14, 2016, 06:54:05 PM »
What if they make exactly 100k?

I'm your huckleberry.

frooglepoodle

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #70 on: January 14, 2016, 06:57:35 PM »
So someone has this fantasy in their heads. They build up this person who fulfills their desires, self-centered as they may be. That's fine; where better to focus on yourself than in your own head, after all?

But I wonder, at any point when they're trying to figure out how to get a person to fulfill their needs, if they ever ask how they'll be able to satisfy that person? I wonder in what ways they could convince themselves they deserve that particular person, how they'd even manage to keep that person, compared to anyone else. If you want someone so special, what makes you so special to attract them?

Do you think they ever ask that question of themselves, and then try to act in ways that make them desirable to their fantasy construct?

This made me think of a former coworker who was single and incredibly picky about the men she was willing to date. I don't believe she had a specific salary floor, but she was certainly adamant that they have their sh!t together professionally and preferred homeowners (in a HCOL area). She was a nice enough woman, but had a terrible attitude (put forth very little effort at work, supposedly was anxious to finish her degree and move into her field of choice but dropped a class because she didn't like the professor) and didn't seem eager to bring a lot to the table.

Last I heard she's still single.

MgoSam

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #71 on: January 14, 2016, 08:45:47 PM »
How many of those young ladies (I saw the class photos and they were 100% women, no sexism intended) met doctors, lawyers and engineers and attended school to do so?

I know someone that got her Masters in Education from Harvard (I think) and mentioned that their program had a TON of mixers with the MBA students. I'm guessing it was for a largely similar purpose. My friend was married, so it didn't interest her.

The Happy Philosopher

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #72 on: January 14, 2016, 09:15:22 PM »
What if they make exactly 100k?

I'm your huckleberry.
LOL! Touche!

Still wouldn't date though ;)

partgypsy

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #73 on: January 15, 2016, 07:50:34 AM »
At my university they use to offer Home Economics degrees. The Engineering school (current median salary of 90K after 10 years) use to be 90%+ male dominated. Logically the solution to lonely engineers was to arrange situations like annual dances so that engineers could meet the Home Economics majors (or maybe the Home Ec. college arranged it?).  How many of those young ladies (I saw the class photos and they were 100% women, no sexism intended) met doctors, lawyers and engineers and attended school to do so? How many of the Engineers wanted to get a perfect house wife?

I'm sure some people go on to become a teacher, however I wonder if these colleges still do the same today? My high school had a Home Ec. teacher, she didn't have a degree though...

http://educhoices.org/articles/Home_Economics_School_List_of_Schools_with_Home_Economics_Degree_Programs.html

I'm sure those marriages were as successful as others, everyone got what they wanted.

when my Mom was going to school (early 60's) she joked that a lot of her roommates were actually there to get their MRS not their BS or BA. I'm sure it is not so prevalent now but it could happen.

runningthroughFIRE

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #74 on: January 15, 2016, 12:10:50 PM »
At my university they use to offer Home Economics degrees. The Engineering school (current median salary of 90K after 10 years) use to be 90%+ male dominated. Logically the solution to lonely engineers was to arrange situations like annual dances so that engineers could meet the Home Economics majors (or maybe the Home Ec. college arranged it?).  How many of those young ladies (I saw the class photos and they were 100% women, no sexism intended) met doctors, lawyers and engineers and attended school to do so? How many of the Engineers wanted to get a perfect house wife?

I'm sure some people go on to become a teacher, however I wonder if these colleges still do the same today? My high school had a Home Ec. teacher, she didn't have a degree though...

http://educhoices.org/articles/Home_Economics_School_List_of_Schools_with_Home_Economics_Degree_Programs.html

I'm sure those marriages were as successful as others, everyone got what they wanted.

when my Mom was going to school (early 60's) she joked that a lot of her roommates were actually there to get their MRS not their BS or BA. I'm sure it is not so prevalent now but it could happen.
It's still a thing.  I knew several girls in college (only a year ago for me) who were pretty much there to meet a husband, but their majors weren't anything quite as obvious as home economics.

Making Cookies

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #75 on: January 15, 2016, 01:42:35 PM »
The saying still exists. I met a few of these gals over the years. Never dated them very long. Once I figured our their shtick I eased on down the road. Most of them had much more potential than they made use of.

Only knew of the outcome of one. She went from dating to married practically overnight. I knew her background and she wanted out of her Mother's house any way possible.

pbkmaine

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #76 on: January 15, 2016, 03:00:28 PM »
A bunch of my sorority sisters at Cornell were in Human Ecology (formerly Home Ec). Hmm. They are all FI. One was in strategic planning at a Megacorp, one did textile restoration in museums, two are MDs, three are attorneys, one is a full professor at a top 20 university. Nope, don't think they were there to get MRS degrees.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #77 on: January 15, 2016, 04:33:44 PM »
A bunch of my sorority sisters at Cornell were in Human Ecology (formerly Home Ec). Hmm. They are all FI. One was in strategic planning at a Megacorp, one did textile restoration in museums, two are MDs, three are attorneys, one is a full professor at a top 20 university. Nope, don't think they were there to get MRS degrees.

Was Human Ecology their major?

cats

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #78 on: January 15, 2016, 05:17:51 PM »
My husband likes to joke that he would only marry a woman who made over $100k...it just happened that I had gotten a raise that tipped me over the threshold a month or so before he proposed.  So that was amusing :)

WRT the article, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with insisting that your partner have their financial shit together (and it does sound like her ex did NOT have himself together financially, so I can understand how she feels she got burned once and doesn't want to do it again), but going so far as to set an income threshold, especially when it's 2x what you earn, does seem a bit much.  This woman seems to be determined to live the NYC lifestyle, but...she doesn't earn an NYC lifestyle level salary.  How is it okay to expect (to the point of apparently making it a dealbreaker) something from a relationship that you can't contribute and apparently have no hope of contributing yourself?

When I first met my husband, we were both in grad school, so earnings were minimal.  I will admit that I appreciated that he had a very strong work ethic and that he did not appear to be spending at levels that were beyond what his graduate stipend permitted--between those two qualities, I figured he was unlikely to ever drag me into any sort of financial trouble, which seemed like about as much as I could reasonably ask financially of a partner, given that I was only making $20-30k a year myself.  I also knew that I possessed those same qualities, so I don't really feel I was being a "gold digger" or having unreasonable expectations in valuing those things.

pbkmaine

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Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #79 on: January 15, 2016, 05:26:19 PM »
Grim Squeaker: They were in the Human Ecology School. Majors, IIRC, were Nutrition, Early Childhood Development, Textiles, Biology, Design and Environmental Analysis. I may have missed a couple. Anyway, although most of my sisters ended up on a different path, I have great respect for the Home Arts. Kids used to take Home Ec in school, and that was where they learned great life skills like how to balance a household budget, cook a healthy meal, and sew and mend clothing. I wish they did more of that kind of teaching today.

Kaminoge

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #80 on: January 16, 2016, 08:17:40 AM »
Actually she didn't come off as badly in the article as I was expecting. She does say she'll be flexible on the amount (and I'm guessing she just pulled it off the top of her head for the article) but basically she's saying she wants someone with their financial shit together. If you read it, while she says her ex-boyfrined was wonderful and she loved him she also talks about the strains that their financial situation placed on their relationship so it wasn't like it was all rosy.

For me it's never been about money (and I've never been so blatant as to write an article about my goals) but I've always thought that I needed to find a man who could fit in with my lifestyle of travel (which involves moving countries every few years). Shallow? Don't know. But it's a realistic assessment of what I feel I need in a relationship to keep me happy. If she really feels that a partner with enough income is important to her (and she's not exactly asking for Trump level cash) then it makes sense that she's planning to try to not fall in love with anyone who doesn't meet the criteria.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 11:06:07 AM by Kaminoge »

Prairie Stash

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #81 on: January 19, 2016, 11:44:23 AM »
Grim Squeaker: They were in the Human Ecology School. Majors, IIRC, were Nutrition, Early Childhood Development, Textiles, Biology, Design and Environmental Analysis. I may have missed a couple. Anyway, although most of my sisters ended up on a different path, I have great respect for the Home Arts. Kids used to take Home Ec in school, and that was where they learned great life skills like how to balance a household budget, cook a healthy meal, and sew and mend clothing. I wish they did more of that kind of teaching today.
I didn't mean to imply women couldn't go on to do great things or that it wasn't valuable skills. They have since closed the department at my school, it wasn't as science based as Cornell and the job placement I think was much lower than Cornell. What I did imply was that very smart young ladies from outside the major centers would attend the university to meet potentially better husbands. The rewards for attending school were pretty great; a chance for a career and the chance to marry a Doctor.

 
A bunch of my sorority sisters at Cornell were in Human Ecology (formerly Home Ec). Hmm. They are all FI. One was in strategic planning at a Megacorp, one did textile restoration in museums, two are MDs, three are attorneys, one is a full professor at a top 20 university. Nope, don't think they were there to get MRS degrees.
Your rebuttal example is focused on ladies who had other degrees though; 6 of 8 of your examples had degrees on top of Home Ec. (MD, Law, Doctorate). I'm not really seeing how Home Economics on its own is great, from your example it seems you need to get a second degree before you can achieve FI in 75% of the cases. It seem like your example were career women who wanted advanced education, how many with only a bachelors became a "MRS"? Are you saying that it didn't exist at Cornell among the undergrads? Do you think less of girls who do this?

bb11

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #82 on: January 19, 2016, 12:34:19 PM »
Grim Squeaker: They were in the Human Ecology School. Majors, IIRC, were Nutrition, Early Childhood Development, Textiles, Biology, Design and Environmental Analysis. I may have missed a couple. Anyway, although most of my sisters ended up on a different path, I have great respect for the Home Arts. Kids used to take Home Ec in school, and that was where they learned great life skills like how to balance a household budget, cook a healthy meal, and sew and mend clothing. I wish they did more of that kind of teaching today.
I didn't mean to imply women couldn't go on to do great things or that it wasn't valuable skills. They have since closed the department at my school, it wasn't as science based as Cornell and the job placement I think was much lower than Cornell. What I did imply was that very smart young ladies from outside the major centers would attend the university to meet potentially better husbands. The rewards for attending school were pretty great; a chance for a career and the chance to marry a Doctor.

 
A bunch of my sorority sisters at Cornell were in Human Ecology (formerly Home Ec). Hmm. They are all FI. One was in strategic planning at a Megacorp, one did textile restoration in museums, two are MDs, three are attorneys, one is a full professor at a top 20 university. Nope, don't think they were there to get MRS degrees.
Your rebuttal example is focused on ladies who had other degrees though; 6 of 8 of your examples had degrees on top of Home Ec. (MD, Law, Doctorate). I'm not really seeing how Home Economics on its own is great, from your example it seems you need to get a second degree before you can achieve FI in 75% of the cases. It seem like your example were career women who wanted advanced education, how many with only a bachelors became a "MRS"? Are you saying that it didn't exist at Cornell among the undergrads? Do you think less of girls who do this?

What is the criteria for "becoming a MRS"? Because honestly the statement sounds kind of sexist. Smart, educated, wealthy people (the kind of person that goes to an Ivy League school usually) tend to marry other smart, educated, wealthy people. Did the men at Cornell who married all of these female MD's, JD's, and PhD's become "MRs"? Or is it just obvious that there are going to be lots of attractive potential partners in college (even forgetting the extra academic/wealth hurdle to get into Cornell) and some of them are going to marry each other?

partgypsy

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #83 on: January 19, 2016, 12:52:15 PM »
Grim Squeaker: They were in the Human Ecology School. Majors, IIRC, were Nutrition, Early Childhood Development, Textiles, Biology, Design and Environmental Analysis. I may have missed a couple. Anyway, although most of my sisters ended up on a different path, I have great respect for the Home Arts. Kids used to take Home Ec in school, and that was where they learned great life skills like how to balance a household budget, cook a healthy meal, and sew and mend clothing. I wish they did more of that kind of teaching today.
I didn't mean to imply women couldn't go on to do great things or that it wasn't valuable skills. They have since closed the department at my school, it wasn't as science based as Cornell and the job placement I think was much lower than Cornell. What I did imply was that very smart young ladies from outside the major centers would attend the university to meet potentially better husbands. The rewards for attending school were pretty great; a chance for a career and the chance to marry a Doctor.

 
A bunch of my sorority sisters at Cornell were in Human Ecology (formerly Home Ec). Hmm. They are all FI. One was in strategic planning at a Megacorp, one did textile restoration in museums, two are MDs, three are attorneys, one is a full professor at a top 20 university. Nope, don't think they were there to get MRS degrees.
Your rebuttal example is focused on ladies who had other degrees though; 6 of 8 of your examples had degrees on top of Home Ec. (MD, Law, Doctorate). I'm not really seeing how Home Economics on its own is great, from your example it seems you need to get a second degree before you can achieve FI in 75% of the cases. It seem like your example were career women who wanted advanced education, how many with only a bachelors became a "MRS"? Are you saying that it didn't exist at Cornell among the undergrads? Do you think less of girls who do this?

What is the criteria for "becoming a MRS"? Because honestly the statement sounds kind of sexist. Smart, educated, wealthy people (the kind of person that goes to an Ivy League school usually) tend to marry other smart, educated, wealthy people. Did the men at Cornell who married all of these female MD's, JD's, and PhD's become "MRs"? Or is it just obvious that there are going to be lots of attractive potential partners in college (even forgetting the extra academic/wealth hurdle to get into Cornell) and some of them are going to marry each other?

The primary criteria to become a "MRs" is a woman attending college more for the purpose of meeting a future husband than to get a degree for an independent career. I'm sorry if it sounds sexist/demeaning. In my mother's day (50's, 60's) it was a the accepted thing to do; that the man got a wife who was his social/cultural/intelligent equal, but also that it was expected she do the stay at home wife/mother role while he held down his career. Though my mother ended up with a masters, my father's preferred that she stay at home and raise the children. She was unusual that she wanted to continue to work.
I think it is perfectly fine either way, as long as each party is in agreement.

bb11

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #84 on: January 19, 2016, 12:58:29 PM »
Grim Squeaker: They were in the Human Ecology School. Majors, IIRC, were Nutrition, Early Childhood Development, Textiles, Biology, Design and Environmental Analysis. I may have missed a couple. Anyway, although most of my sisters ended up on a different path, I have great respect for the Home Arts. Kids used to take Home Ec in school, and that was where they learned great life skills like how to balance a household budget, cook a healthy meal, and sew and mend clothing. I wish they did more of that kind of teaching today.
I didn't mean to imply women couldn't go on to do great things or that it wasn't valuable skills. They have since closed the department at my school, it wasn't as science based as Cornell and the job placement I think was much lower than Cornell. What I did imply was that very smart young ladies from outside the major centers would attend the university to meet potentially better husbands. The rewards for attending school were pretty great; a chance for a career and the chance to marry a Doctor.

 
A bunch of my sorority sisters at Cornell were in Human Ecology (formerly Home Ec). Hmm. They are all FI. One was in strategic planning at a Megacorp, one did textile restoration in museums, two are MDs, three are attorneys, one is a full professor at a top 20 university. Nope, don't think they were there to get MRS degrees.
Your rebuttal example is focused on ladies who had other degrees though; 6 of 8 of your examples had degrees on top of Home Ec. (MD, Law, Doctorate). I'm not really seeing how Home Economics on its own is great, from your example it seems you need to get a second degree before you can achieve FI in 75% of the cases. It seem like your example were career women who wanted advanced education, how many with only a bachelors became a "MRS"? Are you saying that it didn't exist at Cornell among the undergrads? Do you think less of girls who do this?

What is the criteria for "becoming a MRS"? Because honestly the statement sounds kind of sexist. Smart, educated, wealthy people (the kind of person that goes to an Ivy League school usually) tend to marry other smart, educated, wealthy people. Did the men at Cornell who married all of these female MD's, JD's, and PhD's become "MRs"? Or is it just obvious that there are going to be lots of attractive potential partners in college (even forgetting the extra academic/wealth hurdle to get into Cornell) and some of them are going to marry each other?

The primary criteria to become a "MRs" is a woman attending college more for the purpose of meeting a future husband than to get a degree for an independent career. I'm sorry if it sounds sexist/demeaning. In my mother's day (50's, 60's) it was a the accepted thing to do; that the man got a wife who was his social/cultural/intelligent equal, but also that it was expected she do the stay at home wife/mother role while he held down his career. Though my mother ended up with a masters, my father's preferred that she stay at home and raise the children. She was unusual that she wanted to continue to work.
I think it is perfectly fine either way, as long as each party is in agreement.

Right I understand the concept. And it made more sense back in the day because the economic opportunities available to women were non-existent outside of marriage.

The problem is labeling someone else and proving that this is their intention as an outsider. Just because you marry someone higher on the income/wealth ladder than you doesn't mean that was your primary goal. So when any Cornell women who marries a wealthier man becomes a MRS, but any Cornell man who marries a wealthier woman is not given the same treatment.... it's sexism. If you go to an Ivy League school, enter a non-lucrative career field, and marry someone you met in college, then it's fairly likely they will be wealthier than you. It doesn't mean you only went there to become a "MRS".

runningthroughFIRE

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #85 on: January 19, 2016, 01:20:48 PM »
Many of the girls/young women I mentioned above have outright said that they are mainly in college to meet a husband.  Several others claimed that meeting someone wasn't the entire reason they were in college, but wouldn't work or otherwise use their degrees if they did.  No need to resort to making assumptions there.

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #86 on: January 19, 2016, 09:54:40 PM »
Many of the girls/young women I mentioned above have outright said that they are mainly in college to meet a husband.  Several others claimed that meeting someone wasn't the entire reason they were in college, but wouldn't work or otherwise use their degrees if they did.  No need to resort to making assumptions there.

When they come right out and tell you that's what they're doing, it's impossible to explain their actions in any other way.

Frankly I appreciate their honesty, and I don't mind them taking up class space provided they're paying their own way. I'm not a fan of having them consume scholarship or bursary money that could otherwise be spent on someone who's going to be working in the field. When someone deliberately drops out of the work force in order to focus the benefits of their education on their elite children, the benefit of that education is focused on her (or possibly his) immediate family, which is often already fairly privileged. So I hope I don't hear any of the MRS degree holders whining for debt relief on their student loans anytime soon.

Using education to snare a meal ticket is not a behavior I've seen in men at the elite university level. But I have indeed run into male community college slackers who are only there to pick up a girlfriend who can support them.

runningthroughFIRE

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #87 on: January 20, 2016, 08:17:47 AM »
Many of the girls/young women I mentioned above have outright said that they are mainly in college to meet a husband.  Several others claimed that meeting someone wasn't the entire reason they were in college, but wouldn't work or otherwise use their degrees if they did.  No need to resort to making assumptions there.

When they come right out and tell you that's what they're doing, it's impossible to explain their actions in any other way.

Frankly I appreciate their honesty, and I don't mind them taking up class space provided they're paying their own way. I'm not a fan of having them consume scholarship or bursary money that could otherwise be spent on someone who's going to be working in the field. When someone deliberately drops out of the work force in order to focus the benefits of their education on their elite children, the benefit of that education is focused on her (or possibly his) immediate family, which is often already fairly privileged. So I hope I don't hear any of the MRS degree holders whining for debt relief on their student loans anytime soon.

Using education to snare a meal ticket is not a behavior I've seen in men at the elite university level. But I have indeed run into male community college slackers who are only there to pick up a girlfriend who can support them.
I have mixed feelings about the idea.  At the time I was surprised at how frankly they said it, and a little disappointed.  It's certainly not the attitude I would want in a partner and I lost a little respect for them at first, but if they want to live that life and can find someone who is willing to support them, then who am I to judge. 

As for taking scholarship money and class space, I find it a little disappointing that they might be taking those resources from someone who was going to use their degree to more directly earn a living.  On the other hand, there are plenty of students who aren't going for a 'MRS/MRs" degree but still blow off their classes and don't take them seriously or seem to care.  Even if there isn't another more serious or needful student who would otherwise be getting those resources, these people expand class sizes and dilute the professor's attention per student, which lowers the learning potential for the rest of the class.  To me both types of people have the same effect of draining resources that could be "better" used elsewhere, even if they're paying their own way as you've said.

I do think that if someone has paid for their spot in the class then they deserve their spot and can do what they want with it as long as they aren't being disruptive to other students, even if it is just to dick around and party or use it as an excuse to be in college and meet a husband/wife. If too many people do this, however, then their very presence becomes disruptive.

bb11

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #88 on: January 20, 2016, 12:41:05 PM »
I guess my experience was different than both of yours. I went to community college and then a good (but not "elite") state university. My sisters did the same, although they went to a state school I would describe as "elite". I've never ever heard someone say they were going to school to meet a potential partner. Neither have my sisters (I just asked them). I asked my girlfriend the same thing (she went to a good but not elite private university), and she also said she's never heard anyone state those intentions.

Not that our experience is universal. But I think the concept is postulated far more than it actually occurs.

I will say there were two women friends at my school who openly admitted that wealth was their biggest factor in choosing a husband. One repeatedly stated over the years that she wanted to marry an old man with a lot of money who would die soon (she was half joking). As a man both of their philosophies seemed pretty repulsive to me, so it's possible more women held their opinions but chose not to share them. In any case neither of them stated that was their reason for going to college.

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #89 on: January 20, 2016, 02:47:07 PM »
I guess my experience was different than both of yours. I went to community college and then a good (but not "elite") state university. My sisters did the same, although they went to a state school I would describe as "elite". I've never ever heard someone say they were going to school to meet a potential partner. Neither have my sisters (I just asked them). I asked my girlfriend the same thing (she went to a good but not elite private university), and she also said she's never heard anyone state those intentions.

Not that our experience is universal. But I think the concept is postulated far more than it actually occurs.

I will say there were two women friends at my school who openly admitted that wealth was their biggest factor in choosing a husband. One repeatedly stated over the years that she wanted to marry an old man with a lot of money who would die soon (she was half joking). As a man both of their philosophies seemed pretty repulsive to me, so it's possible more women held their opinions but chose not to share them. In any case neither of them stated that was their reason for going to college.

Just because it wasn't your experience doesn't mean something doesn't exist.  The MRS degree is a fairly well known phrase that refers to a woman who attends college with the intention of finding a husband, not just any woman who attends college and then marries a classmate on a higher income ladder.    It's still completely sexist, but not for the reason you described.  I went to college in the early 2000s and there were definitely some (small number of) women who were doing this.

bb11

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #90 on: January 20, 2016, 03:08:55 PM »
Quote
Just because it wasn't your experience doesn't mean something doesn't exist.

Obviously. In fact I stated exactly that in my last post. Direct quote: "Not that our experience is universal. But I think the concept is postulated far more than it actually occurs."

Quote
The MRS degree is a fairly well known phrase that refers to a woman who attends college with the intention of finding a husband, not just any woman who attends college and then marries a classmate on a higher income ladder. 

Yes I am well aware of the phrase. I said as much in a previous post. Direct quote: "Right I understand the concept. And it made more sense back in the day because the economic opportunities available to women were non-existent outside of marriage."

What I was bringing up is far more often the phrase is used by men to label women than a woman stating that was her purpose. And I think the label is overapplied, the percentage of women doing this in 2016 is miniscule. Reasons why:

1. Women can actually obtain many good jobs these days themselves.
2. There are much more efficient ways to meet a wealthy man than to date a college student in the hopes he/she eventually becomes wealthy.
3. College is usually expensive enough that there are much cheaper alternatives. Find a niche dating site, or go hang out at hospitals and banker's networking events. :)
4. It's a pretty poor decision and use of 4+ years of your life. And if you're at a great school, you're likely fairly capable of providing your own income.

Maybe the Ivy League is different, or going to college in California led to me meeting more progressive women. That's my take though.

partgypsy

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #91 on: January 20, 2016, 03:18:09 PM »
I think of the MRS being a pretty old fashioned term. My mother's roommates were pretty clear that was their intent, and often dropped out once they were engaged. The women I went to college I can't think of a single one who was attending for that reason. On the other hand I knew at least 1 guy in college who announced he really just wanted to find a wife to support him. I don't know if that worked out for him. I think as time goes on and there is more equality in the sexes, there may be as much of that going on, as the other way around (whether conscious or subconscious). My Dad drilled it into me, to never be dependent on a man economically. So it was something I never considered. 

Mermaid3011

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #92 on: January 20, 2016, 03:22:34 PM »
RE the Mrs Degree: I was told on my first day at University (by the principal) that women who have a degree are 50% less likely to get married than women who don't have a degree and we should consider this before we started the semester. Well... seems he was right. I went for the degree...

Re the 100k: I would prefer to date someone who makes about as much as I do, just so there is no issue with yours and mine and ours. But what is MOST important is, that the man I date MUST know how to manage his finances and not blow through every pay check without saving. Finding a mustachian to date is not an easy quest though....
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 03:24:17 PM by Mermaid3011 »

runningthroughFIRE

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #93 on: January 20, 2016, 03:39:15 PM »
I didn't mean to imply that this is a common thing at all, only that some women (and men) still do.  In fairness to bb11, this was only explicitly said while out drinking and the topic came up somehow, so I don't think it's something most people would normally say.

Pulling this back on topic (since I don't think I've said before): the income doesn't matter as much as the general attitude towards money.  I plan on building a portfolio with two commas in the total and NOT spending it, which a lot of people wouldn't go along with.  All else equal, building that portfolio faster is would be better, but all else is never equal.

Edit: strikethrough
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 07:37:49 AM by runningthroughFIRE »

bb11

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #94 on: January 20, 2016, 04:19:20 PM »
Quote
  Pulling this back on topic (since I don't think I've said before): the income doesn't matter as much as the general attitude towards money.  I plan on building a portfolio with two commas in the total and NOT spending it, which a lot of people wouldn't go along with.  All else equal, building that portfolio faster is would be better, but all else is never equal.

Amen.

nobodyspecial

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #95 on: January 20, 2016, 04:35:20 PM »

1. Women can actually obtain many good jobs these days themselves.
2. There are much more efficient ways to meet a wealthy man than to date a college student in the hopes he/she eventually becomes wealthy.
3. College is usually expensive enough that there are much cheaper alternatives. Find a niche dating site, or go hang out at hospitals and banker's networking events. :)
4. It's a pretty poor decision and use of 4+ years of your life. And if you're at a great school, you're likely fairly capable of providing your own income.
And the response to those excellent points -  the existence of "art history" degrees !


mbk

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #96 on: February 02, 2016, 10:26:45 PM »
Interesting, mbk, your wife just flatly refuses to work?

She had a princess syndrome enabled by her father.
Her inclination was to just to cook and clean at leisure and believe she was pulling her weight.
My prodding, many times harsh, caused serious friction.
Any how, she changed for better in the last year.
She is actively applying for jobs now and is also trying to be more informed.

I don't know if her dad's death or my prodding changed her. I believe its the former.
She realizes there is no fall back person any more.

The Happy Philosopher

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #97 on: February 03, 2016, 10:22:54 PM »

PhysicianOnFIRE

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #98 on: February 03, 2016, 10:36:48 PM »
To be fair, I wouldn't date a man who makes less than $100k either.

I also wouldn't date a man who makes more than $100k.

My wife would be rather unhappy with either scenario. ;)

daymare

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Re: Won't date a man who makes less than 100K
« Reply #99 on: February 04, 2016, 07:21:44 PM »
I only know one person my age whose stated primary goal of attending college was finding a husband.  (That didn't work out for her - she's still single.  Though perhaps her priorities have shifted, I don't know her too well.)

People have all sorts of preferences for relationships - I have heard several women say they don't want to date someone more attractive than them (which completely baffles me).  I have heard people say they want to marry someone smarter than them (I can't find it, but there was a whole thread in off-topic after serpentstooth said she deliberately married someone smarter than her).  I might not at all respect those views, but better to have them in the open, so people who are compatible with them can find you.