Author Topic: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?  (Read 33062 times)

JR

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Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« on: September 26, 2013, 03:35:10 PM »
Our oldest car jumped time and destroyed the pistons and head a couple months ago so we have been looking for a new-used car. During this time I have learned that cash is defiantly not king when it comes to dealing with car salesman. A salesman at the first lot we visited to look at a car we saw online just would not take no for an answer on financing. After we told him we wanted to pay cash he came back with financing worksheets and told us that it would be smart of us to finance. We experienced this at other lots as well. Is this common? Has anyone else experienced this while shopping for a used car?

Numbers Man

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2013, 03:41:59 PM »
After you agree on the price then tell them it's a cash deal. End of story. I've done this the last three times that I have bought a car.

Spork

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2013, 03:42:49 PM »
I think there are a couple of reasons:
1. they get some sort of interest (or kickback from Mamma Company) for financing
2. there can be some sort of paperwork imposed by gubment for cash payments > 10,000.  This is some anti-drug law.  But... his problem not yours.

Bottom line: Your cash says "legal tender for all debts public and private" on it.  If you WANT to pay cash, you can.   He has to take it.  (And ... he can lose the sale if he doesn't.)

marty998

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2013, 03:46:16 PM »
With a financed car they make more money. They also capture more of your personal details when you fill out the loan docs. It's that simple.

Christof

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2013, 03:46:34 PM »
No... bought new cars and used cars. Financing was only mentioned when I asked and didn't made a difference with regard to the price. Maybe its different in the US, but here in Germany the car dealer is paid in full right away, wether by the buyer, a bank or a leasing company. They are interested in making the sale, not in the way they will be paid.

SnackDog

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2013, 04:03:46 PM »
Tell him you will consider financing for a 10% discount on price. If all the paperwork looks ok, sign it and pay it off when the first payment is due.

Systematic

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2013, 04:18:08 PM »
wow things have changed 10 years ago I got a discount for cash.

car sellers should have to be open about the price of a car, including the interest charges in actual price if they offer/promote financing.

Zaga

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2013, 05:08:13 PM »
Car dealers make more money when they get you to finance, so of course they are pushing it!

That said, I've bought a new-to-us car for cash, and they only asked once how we were paying.  Once we said cash the guy said he understood and would do the same himself, then he sold us the car.

arebelspy

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2013, 05:34:06 PM »
Bottom line: Your cash says "legal tender for all debts public and private" on it.  If you WANT to pay cash, you can.   He has to take it.

Well this is not true (though it is a common myth, so posting to clear up the misconception).

If there was a debt incurred, yes.  In other words, if you performed a service, and someone owed you, they could pay you in cash and you'd have to accept it.

In this case there is no debt, and he doesn't have to take it.

He could ask for payment in gummy bears, refuse to take anything else, and legally be fine.

(Naturally, most of the time, they will still take cash, though they push the financing for the extra kickback, but they don't want to lose the sale or the bad PR of refusing cash.)
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 05:37:47 PM by arebelspy »
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kendallf

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2013, 05:35:32 PM »
Great reason to avoid the dealer entirely and buy from an individual! 

Carrie

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2013, 06:03:56 PM »
We ran into this when we traveled out of state to buy a van we saw on the internet.  The price quoted was based upon financing... which was not clear in the ad we saw (and believe me, I argued it.  Had they been a local dealership we would have walked.).  After five miserable hours of haggling (I was preggo at the time), we finally agreed to finance even though we had the cash sitting in our checking account and we wanted to pay using our debit card.  (IF we had thought to bring a check, we may have made out better --- but this was back when ING, the holder of most of our cash, did not have checks.)
As soon as the payment book came in the mail a week later we sent payment in full.  So we paid $30 in interest to save $750 off the price of the car.

The following year we bought a car from CarMax.  We paid with (a rather large) personal check.  No problems whatsoever.  No pressure to finance, no upcharge to pay cash.  Easiest transaction ever.

dragoncar

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2013, 06:59:00 PM »
Is there an origination fee for the loan?  A large credit hit?  An early payoff penalty?

If not, then just finance and pay it off immediately.  If so, explain the additional cost and ask them to reduce the price accordingly.  Otherwise play hardball and walk away.  Wait for them to call you.

Self-employed-swami

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2013, 08:26:14 PM »
Weird.  The few times I've shopped at dealerships for a vehicle, and mentioned that I'd pay cash, the sales person has become more helpful/eager to make a sale.

Jack

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2013, 09:02:40 PM »
Our oldest car jumped time and destroyed the pistons and head a couple months ago...

Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, please accept this face punch for not doing your timing belt service when you were supposed to (or not doing it correctly/completely, if it was a pulley rather than the belt itself that broke). That incident was completely preventable.

(And everybody else who owns a car with an interference engine, take heed!)

Tyler

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2013, 09:25:15 PM »
Quick tip: Know what you want and roll into the dealership late in the evening (or like I did on Christmas Eve ;) ) to use time to your advantage.  In my experience, the salespeople play fewer games because they know they can't wait you out, and often they're happy to close a quick sale at the end of the day and go home.

Personally, if someone refused to accept cash I'd walk away.  They clearly don't have your best interests in mind.  You're already doing them a favor by offering to pay them a lot of money for a car, and owe them nothing more.

JR

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2013, 05:05:47 AM »
Our oldest car jumped time and destroyed the pistons and head a couple months ago...

Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, please accept this face punch for not doing your timing belt service when you were supposed to (or not doing it correctly/completely, if it was a pulley rather than the belt itself that broke). That incident was completely preventable.

(And everybody else who owns a car with an interference engine, take heed!)

I kind of feel that the face punch is undeserved in this case. The timing belt, pulleys, and water pump were replaced 40,000 miles ago but it turns out that in this car the idler pulley is made out of plastic and ultimately cracked and fell apart.

Christof

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2013, 05:13:41 AM »
Quick tip: Know what you want and roll into the dealership late in the evening (or like I did on Christmas Eve ;) ) to use time to your advantage. 

Another quick tip: Know what you want and send a mail asking for an offer to at least a dozen car dealerships in your area. Take the lowest offer and ask the most convenient car dealer to match the price. Then talk about payment, and finally actually go to the car dealer to test drive the car and buy it.

Saves a lot more time and avoids any marketing talk.

Spork

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2013, 08:09:14 AM »
Tell him you will consider financing for a 10% discount on price. If all the paperwork looks ok, sign it and pay it off when the first payment is due.

Be really careful with this.  Read and fully understand the loan.  A lot of car loans are written such that the total amount of interest WILL BE PAID regardless of when you pay it off.  They won't tell you this outright, but will spin it.  They'll say something like "This loan is better because we've averaged the interest over the life of the loan.  A conventional loan will be loaded up front with lots of interest.  Averaging lets you pay more principal in the early months."   And... while what they're saying is correct...  What they're not saying is that all the interest is due for the whole loan, even if paid off early.

Source: me, when I was young and dumb.

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2013, 08:22:56 AM »
If the dealer deposits a large cash amount it is a huge red flag on their account (think Patriot Act).

Also, they have their little games with it comes to financing, hidden charges and all that crap. If you want a dealer car, get your ducks lined up at a credit union for financing and just pay off the credit union the next day.

This is why I don't like dealers... I like to buy from individuals with cash in hand or if they like we can close at one of our banks.

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2013, 09:04:43 AM »
I bought a car a couple months ago and they agreed to what I thought was a low-ball offer...on the condition that I financed though them and held the loan for at least 4 months (though he even told me they couldn't do anything if I paid it off early).
My boss bought a car from what I think was the same dealership and they gave her a pretty good discount under the same terms.
They get some good kickbacks from the banks, though I'd be very interested to see how the behind the scenes stuff comes out because I got a 1.59% interest rate and pay the bank a whopping $20/month in interest on my car and my boss got a .9% rate on hers so there's more than just the bank getting interest on us....

The kickback is a result of fractional reserve banking. When a bank loans out they benefit from extending their balance sheet some 90% of that loan. I'm sure this trickles down to the dealerships facilitating these loans.

When you ask why would anyone offer 0% for 60 months? This is why.

Forcus

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2013, 09:59:59 AM »
I got a peek at one of the financing sheets for the banks before. The kickbacks (sorry, they are probably called "referral bonuses" or something like that) were upwards of $1,000 to $1,500. That's a pretty big motivation to push financing.

dragoncar

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2013, 10:35:32 AM »
If the dealer deposits a large cash amount it is a huge red flag on their account (think Patriot Act).

Also, they have their little games with it comes to financing, hidden charges and all that crap. If you want a dealer car, get your ducks lined up at a credit union for financing and just pay off the credit union the next day.

This is why I don't like dealers... I like to buy from individuals with cash in hand or if they like we can close at one of our banks.

When we say cash we are not (I hope) talking about actuall bills.  Usually the purchase is made via personal or cashiers check, which raises no red flags.

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2013, 10:39:13 AM »
I got a peek at one of the financing sheets for the banks before. The kickbacks (sorry, they are probably called "referral bonuses" or something like that) were upwards of $1,000 to $1,500. That's a pretty big motivation to push financing.
But how exactly does the bank justify that kind of kick back? On my car they would get about $530 in interest TOTAL over the life of the 5 year loan I got if I make minimum payments. They're getting something else out of the bargain...

Any one of these videos will explain why banks have an incentive to lend.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 11:09:19 AM by Mr.Macinstache »

Self-employed-swami

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2013, 10:43:25 AM »
When we sold our Matrix a few years ago, The fellow paid me in actual cash, to the tune of $7,300.  It made no difference to me, and honestly it was more convenient than those few days where you wait for a cheque to clear, and worry that something could go wrong.

athomeintheworld

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2013, 10:57:24 AM »
Cut out the dealer!  Seriously buy a car private party.  Better for you...and the seller...definitely Mustachian :)


Hunny156

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2013, 12:24:08 PM »
LOL, this reminds me of the time my Dad bought two new cars w/in 6 months of each other from the same dealership and sales person.  They were willing to accept cash, but were very antsy when my dad showed up w/a paper bag of actual cash.  This was 20 years ago, and my Dad owned a cash business, so that's just how he rolled.  The second time he did that, the sales rep told him that she was gonna have a heart attack from the dealership to the bank, b/c of all the money in her possession.  I can understand that feeling.

Last year, my car was totalled so I went shopping for a new (used) one. 

1.     One salesperson told me he was going to grab a business card from the office, and he never came back.

2.     The next place we went to was DriveTime.  Nice salesperson there, tried to immediately take us to the finance desk.  When we explained we would be paying w/cash, he pulled us aside and explained that they only do finance, usually for people w/bad credit and only care about the monthly payment #.  He was very up front, told us that they pad the price of the cars by several thousand dollars to make up the risk.  We thanked him for his honesty, and promised to send people his way if we ever came across someone that would fit his client base.
3.     After two days of dealing w/smarmy used car salespeople, I came to my senses and looked on Craig's List.  Found the right car at a good price, met the guy at his bank so we could pay off his note in cash, and drove off.  Much better!

Alan2

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2013, 12:28:07 PM »
When we say cash we are not (I hope) talking about actuall bills.  Usually the purchase is made via personal or cashiers check, which raises no red flags.

The first (and only) time I bought a car it was with the folding stuff (a bit over 5k).  The only down side was me and the salesman counting it multiple times trying to get the right result twice running.

Albert

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2013, 12:42:43 PM »
Large purchases here are usually done by a bank transfer. I bought a rental property recently, paid in "cash" which meant wiring the money to the seller. Is that totally unknown in US?

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2013, 12:57:47 PM »
Large purchases here are usually done by a bank transfer. I bought a rental property recently, paid in "cash" which meant wiring the money to the seller. Is that totally unknown in US?

I think with all of the fraud on checks most dealers won't take them. Also, if you use a debit card, I'm pretty sure they'll got socked with a 3% fee to get that payment.

JR

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2013, 01:05:41 PM »
Large purchases here are usually done by a bank transfer. I bought a rental property recently, paid in "cash" which meant wiring the money to the seller. Is that totally unknown in US?

That is essentially the same in the US. When people mention paying "cash" for a large purchase they are usually not talking about actual paper bills.

Albert

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2013, 01:13:24 PM »
Large purchases here are usually done by a bank transfer. I bought a rental property recently, paid in "cash" which meant wiring the money to the seller. Is that totally unknown in US?

I think with all of the fraud on checks most dealers won't take them. Also, if you use a debit card, I'm pretty sure they'll got socked with a 3% fee to get that payment.

Who said anything about debit cards or checks? Most debit card have a limit and thus are not suitable for large purchases. I was talking about the old fashioned electronic bank transfer from one account to another. How do you do it in US if you want to buy some property for say 60k and need no mortgage?

JR

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2013, 01:18:11 PM »
Large purchases here are usually done by a bank transfer. I bought a rental property recently, paid in "cash" which meant wiring the money to the seller. Is that totally unknown in US?

I think with all of the fraud on checks most dealers won't take them. Also, if you use a debit card, I'm pretty sure they'll got socked with a 3% fee to get that payment.

Who said anything about debit cards or checks? Most debit card have a limit and thus are not suitable for large purchases. I was talking about the old fashioned electronic bank transfer from one account to another. How do you do it in US if you want to buy some property for say 60k and need no mortgage?

A cashiers check. Cashier's checks are paid by the bank so they are a guaranteed check. When I do find a car that I want to purchase I will pay for it with a cashiers check.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 01:19:46 PM by JR »

huadpe

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2013, 01:27:28 PM »
Large purchases here are usually done by a bank transfer. I bought a rental property recently, paid in "cash" which meant wiring the money to the seller. Is that totally unknown in US?

I think with all of the fraud on checks most dealers won't take them. Also, if you use a debit card, I'm pretty sure they'll got socked with a 3% fee to get that payment.

Who said anything about debit cards or checks? Most debit card have a limit and thus are not suitable for large purchases. I was talking about the old fashioned electronic bank transfer from one account to another. How do you do it in US if you want to buy some property for say 60k and need no mortgage?

A cashiers check. Cashier's checks are paid by the bank so they are a guaranteed check. When I do find a car that I want to purchase I will pay for it with a cashiers check.

Another good thing with a cashier's check: it lets you force the exact amount to be paid out of them.  Since you're going to go to the bank to get it, you have to have an exact number to get it for.  That means if they're gonna put in any things like "destination charges" or the like, you can challenge it right then.  They will have to charge you sales tax though.

dragoncar

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2013, 01:30:22 PM »
Large purchases here are usually done by a bank transfer. I bought a rental property recently, paid in "cash" which meant wiring the money to the seller. Is that totally unknown in US?

I think with all of the fraud on checks most dealers won't take them. Also, if you use a debit card, I'm pretty sure they'll got socked with a 3% fee to get that payment.

Who said anything about debit cards or checks? Most debit card have a limit and thus are not suitable for large purchases. I was talking about the old fashioned electronic bank transfer from one account to another. How do you do it in US if you want to buy some property for say 60k and need no mortgage?

The US doesn't have the same easy least bank tranfer system as some EU countries.  For example, I can't just go online and ask to send money to a friend (unless possibly they use the same exact bank).  We DO have wire transfers, but they usually cost at least $20, and are generally a pain in the ass.  These are reserved mostly for real estate.

Yes, dealerships will take checks.  There are numerous check verification systems they use to be comfortable with it.  They could also do an ACH transfer (which is the closes we have to EU style transfers, but takes a few days to clear ... You'd probably have to wait to pick up the car).   

Source: I was present when a family member bought a porche with a personal check a few years ago.

Albert

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2013, 02:04:25 PM »
The US doesn't have the same easy least bank tranfer system as some EU countries.  For example, I can't just go online and ask to send money to a friend (unless possibly they use the same exact bank).  We DO have wire transfers, but they usually cost at least $20, and are generally a pain in the ass.  These are reserved mostly for real estate.

Interesting. I knew from my time as a student there that US retail banking system is much less developed, but I thought maybe things have changed...

I could transfer pretty much any amount of money from my laptop right now (maybe not millions, but I've never had an opportunity to try!). The actual transfer would take one business day. We don't have personal checks here so there are only three options for paying any bills I receive - go to bank or post office in person or use internet banking. Guess which is more convenient?

MrsPete

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2013, 03:00:10 PM »
In my limited experience, yes, car dealers prefer to loan money rather than have a cash sale.  Last car we bought was six years ago, and we definitely found that they were less interested in us once we said, "We're paying cash." 

My best advice on car buying: 

Do not mix test drives and money discussions.  Do your research, test drive, whatever.  But when you're ready to buy, come back and tell them, "I want to talk money about ____ car."  This is harder with used cars, but at big places like CarMax, it's possible.  Don't mix the decision-making process and the emotional desire to own the car with the financial discussion.  This also throws the salesmen off their game. 

Tell them that you want to talk about one number, one number only:  The total, out-the-door cost of the car.  Include taxes, fees, whatever.  This prevents them from adding on a bunch of money at the end, after you thought you were "done".  The salesmen hate this and will fight you on it.  They will constantly return to, "This feature is only X amount more per month."  Firmly but politely return to, "I want to talk about one number only:  The total, out-the-door cost of the car."  No matter how many times they try to distract you with other questions, return to that one number. 

Refuse to discuss financing.  When they ask how you're going to pay, respond with a vague, "I'm not ready to make that decision.  What I need to know today is the total, out-the-door cost of the car." 

Do not trade your car when you buy a new one.  Make it two separate transactions.  The simpler your transaction, the more transparent the numbers.  The salesmen like to include trades and lots of complicated numbers -- it confuses people, and they go away not knowing what they're really paid. 

They do this all day, every day.  If you allow them to start flipping around trade-ins, financing costs, etc., etc., etc., they will beat you.  So refuse to play their game.  Total, out-the-door cost.  Nothing else. 

Once you have the price you're willing to pay, THEN tell them you're going to pay cash.

This method has worked great for us.   


oldtoyota

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2013, 03:05:19 PM »
Carmax gave me no trouble at all. A Toyota dealership guy raised his eyebrows when I paid cash, but he did not "push" financing on me.

Hedge_87

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2013, 03:15:04 PM »
I know this is just a dream but how sweet would it be to pay with a CC. The rewards points would be awsome. Assuming you paid it off when you got home

Christof

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2013, 05:00:55 PM »
They could also do an ACH transfer (which is the closes we have to EU style transfers, but takes a few days to clear ... You'd probably have to wait to pick up the car).   

At least in Germany waiting is what you would do anyway. Here you can't just visit a dealer and drive off the property. When you buy a used car you typically sign a contract, get an invoice and transfer the money. Next you get insurance with temporary coverage. Once the dealer has the money you get the car's identification papers, register the car and return with the license plates. Or you pay the dealer to register the car which is more expensive, but not any quicker, Then you can drive off the property.

For a new car add a waiting time of several weeks to months between signing the contract and getting the invoice.

Christof

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2013, 05:07:34 PM »
I knew from my time as a student there that US retail banking system is much less developed

It's different and has other priorities... But I do have a hard time seeing it as "much less developed". Credit cards and ATMs have both been invented in the US and are now common everywhere.

Albert

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2013, 05:33:59 PM »
I knew from my time as a student there that US retail banking system is much less developed

It's different and has other priorities... But I do have a hard time seeing it as "much less developed". Credit cards and ATMs have both been invented in the US and are now common everywhere.

Right, but have you lived in the more developed parts of EU (not sure about technological advancement of Greece or South Italy) and used banking services there? Invented doesn't necessarily mean used most widely or most invasively. Internet wasn't invented in Scandinavia or cell phones in Japan either...

Christof

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #41 on: September 28, 2013, 01:16:58 AM »
Right, but have you lived in the more developed parts of EU (not sure about technological advancement of Greece or South Italy) and used banking services there?

If you consider Germany to be a more developed part of the EU... I've used banking service for twenty years and I do remember very well how difficult it was to send money just a few kilometers across the border into a different country just ten years ago.

Your statement reminded me of talks we had in a group of German and US friends. There's some tendency to sort differences into superior and inferior. Two examples: A German friend expressed his view that paying with checks clearly shows inferiority when in Germany everyone is using electronic money transfer since the eighties. A US friend expressed how measuring in inches is so much more precise then centimeters and that therefore the inch scale is superior.

I always feel uneasy with these generalizations, because usually they aren't true.

gooki

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #42 on: September 28, 2013, 02:28:15 AM »
A US friend expressed how measuring in inches is so much more precise then centimeters and that therefore the inch scale is superior.

I do t think I've laughed so hard in my life.

oldtoyota

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2013, 10:01:07 AM »
I know this is just a dream but how sweet would it be to pay with a CC. The rewards points would be awsome. Assuming you paid it off when you got home

My friend's dad did this a long time ago. When the salesmen gave him guff, he threatened to pay with credit card unless he got 3% off. Somehow, my friend's dad got the 3% off. I think the transaction fee to the cc company would have been more than 3%.

mlipps

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2013, 01:28:34 PM »
My last car purchase, we traded in our SUV for $12k for a $13k car. (Yes, face punch for not selling it ourselves, but it just didn't seem worth the hassle at the time). The dealership asked me 42897291 times if I wanted to finance it. No, I want to give you my credit card and get $20 cash back for it and walk out the door. Thanks.

Jack

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #45 on: September 28, 2013, 10:06:21 PM »
Our oldest car jumped time and destroyed the pistons and head a couple months ago...

Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, please accept this face punch for not doing your timing belt service when you were supposed to (or not doing it correctly/completely, if it was a pulley rather than the belt itself that broke). That incident was completely preventable.

(And everybody else who owns a car with an interference engine, take heed!)

I kind of feel that the face punch is undeserved in this case. The timing belt, pulleys, and water pump were replaced 40,000 miles ago but it turns out that in this car the idler pulley is made out of plastic and ultimately cracked and fell apart.

You mean the idler pulley was replaced and then the new one failed within 40K miles? Or that the mechanic replaced everything except that pulley?

Either way, the mechanic failed to replace the idler pulley with a quality part. Maybe you and he each deserve half a face punch (him for sucking at his job, and you for picking the wrong mechanic).

I suppose it's possible that the mechanic did everything right (including using high-quality parts) and the pulley was just flat-out defective, but it's not likely.

JR

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #46 on: September 29, 2013, 06:21:16 AM »
Our oldest car jumped time and destroyed the pistons and head a couple months ago...

Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, please accept this face punch for not doing your timing belt service when you were supposed to (or not doing it correctly/completely, if it was a pulley rather than the belt itself that broke). That incident was completely preventable.

(And everybody else who owns a car with an interference engine, take heed!)

I kind of feel that the face punch is undeserved in this case. The timing belt, pulleys, and water pump were replaced 40,000 miles ago but it turns out that in this car the idler pulley is made out of plastic and ultimately cracked and fell apart.

You mean the idler pulley was replaced and then the new one failed within 40K miles? Or that the mechanic replaced everything except that pulley?

Either way, the mechanic failed to replace the idler pulley with a quality part. Maybe you and he each deserve half a face punch (him for sucking at his job, and you for picking the wrong mechanic).

I suppose it's possible that the mechanic did everything right (including using high-quality parts) and the pulley was just flat-out defective, but it's not likely.

The mechanic did replace the idler and tensioner pulleys when he replaced the belt. This is a common problem with these cars and a quick search of 04-05 Aveos on Youtube will yield a bunch of videos of people holding broken pieces of timing pulleys that failed before their service interval. The only face punch I deserve is not talking my wife (then girlfriend) out of buying that piece of junk.

The good news is that we found a nice used Honda Fit with full service records. The salesman did not try to push financing but he became very disinterested when we told him we would be paying cash (at the end of negotiations of course).

ender

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #47 on: September 29, 2013, 10:56:39 AM »
I am tempted to withdraw something like $5,000 in actual cash from a bank the next time I need a car and just walk into a dealership and say, "you can have this money if I get this car" and basically take it or leave it.

Seems like it would avoid a lot of the stupid game of "but it's only $199 a month!" which dealers make.

Daley

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #48 on: September 29, 2013, 11:36:43 AM »
I am tempted to withdraw something like $5,000 in actual cash from a bank the next time I need a car and just walk into a dealership and say, "you can have this money if I get this car" and basically take it or leave it.

Seems like it would avoid a lot of the stupid game of "but it's only $199 a month!" which dealers make.

I did similar with the first car I ever purchased, but this was a couple decades ago. Knew which car I wanted, had it inspected, knew how long it was on the lot, got the cash from the bank, started negotiating, and was willing to walk away. Beads of sweat were visible on the salesman the instant the cash started showing up during negotiation. They had it marked $7800, I walked off the lot for $5600 with tag, title, tax and a 30 day drivetrain warranty... and I still put $200 back in the bank afterward.

Found out a week or two later they packed a bad CV joint with grease when the car started clunking when I turned. Gave them three chances to fix it which they didn't. Day 28 of the warranty, I took it to another shop to have it fixed right: $1200. Walked back in with the bill and demanded that they pay it. Owner of the lot told me flat out "NO" and I asked for a mechanic to join us for a minute. Mechanic walked in and I asked, "Are the CV joints part of the drive train?" "Yes." "Thank you. Your people tried fixing it three times under the warranty you provided and you failed to deliver, the proper repair cost $1200, and your own mechanic states that this is part of the drivetrain. Pay the bill, or I'll see you in court."

The owner got a disgusted look on his face, cut a check, and told me to never come back.

Different world back then, and I sincerely doubt I could ever do that again.

ender

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Re: Why is it so hard to buy a car cash?
« Reply #49 on: September 29, 2013, 11:39:08 AM »
You never know.

Bad publicity on something like that can destroy businesses now, given how easy it is to propagate bad experiences on Twitter/Facebook. It's not like dealerships are overly popular anyways :)