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Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: Money Badger on February 27, 2015, 08:16:15 PM

Title: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: Money Badger on February 27, 2015, 08:16:15 PM
After maxing 401k/Roth retirement savings options and making major reductions in monthly expenses and doubling this years mortgage principle payment already, an old nemesis has reappeared in my head...  pickup truck envy.    No need to face punch me about it as I'm a reformed truck-a-holic and know the consequences well enough...     Since new trucks are such a devestating barrier to FI, my question is why do Americans insist on buying more new pickups than any other pssenger vehicle?    Truck sales basically are the profit of the biggest "full lineup" auto makers so why do we continue to stupidly want and buy them??

Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: Dimitri on February 27, 2015, 08:33:17 PM
I remember when lots of families had a Ford Country Squire, Chevrolet Caprice, Buick Roadmaster wagon or something similar parked in the driveway.  Four doors and plenty of room to carry stuff.  Now what passes itself off as a wagon is pretty much a joke in comparison.  Enter the crew cab pickup truck.  I see it as the new American station wagon.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: stlbrah on February 27, 2015, 08:44:18 PM
self image / intimidating other men
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: Dimitri on February 27, 2015, 09:09:56 PM
Some people just like to roll some coal ....

(http://thedailybanter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/RollingCoal-544x400.jpg)
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: gimp on February 27, 2015, 09:11:12 PM
Because once a year the owner thinks about going off-roading or towing something. Twice a year the owner moves heavy furniture for someone or themselves. Yayyyyyy.

The prius repellent truck is hilarious. I'd laugh if I saw that.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: Dimitri on February 27, 2015, 09:29:22 PM
Because once a year the owner thinks about going off-roading or towing something. Twice a year the owner moves heavy furniture for someone or themselves. Yayyyyyy.

The prius repellent truck is hilarious. I'd laugh if I saw that.

Glad you liked it.  Here is a picture of a coal roller taking care of a Prius that got too close.

(http://dodgeforum.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/ctd-ram-rolls-on-prius-600.jpg)
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: Alabaster on February 28, 2015, 01:07:25 AM
My parents are probably going to buy a truck next time they buy a vehicle. I', afraid my dad feels emasculated because he had a family and we wouldn't let him buy a damn truck :v BUT they are pretty much broke so that might be awhile.

Anyways, I think a lot of people associate a truck with masculinity. Guys don't want to feel they gave up their precious manhood so they buy big, fancy toys.

Sorry, I've never much cared for trucks. The only advantage to owning one is that I could be active in a local charity that helps set currently homeless people up with homes (along with jobs and transition counseling resources) which I think is a pretty decent idea.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: Paul der Krake on February 28, 2015, 05:35:47 AM
Because there is an ad for one at every single TV timeout during football season, year after year. Advertising is more pervasive than we like to believe.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: cshaw on February 28, 2015, 10:32:17 AM
I think it has a little bit to do with the need for instant gratification and a bit to do with keeping up with the Jones.  I have a 2005 F150; been paid off for years and I try to drive it only when I absolutely need to.  But I do love driving it, and when one of those new shiny F150,250, or 350ís pull up next to me with $3-4K dollars worth of tires and rims I do feel a small bit of desire begin to swell up within me.  Fortunately my desire for FI outweighs these types of urges and they get face punched and quickly subside.

I am selling our 4 wheel ATVs and adopting "muscle over motor".  Two of them are already sold.  The people that come look at them interest me.  One of the gentlemen pulled up in one of those nice shiny F250 trucks.  He was struggling because he wanted to buy two of my bikes but could only afford 1 at the time.  I remarked how nice his truck was.  He mentioned that he use to have an F150 similar to my own, but after buying ATVs and Trailer he could not pull it with his F150, thus the upgrade to the F250.  I shudder to think what his total outlays have been for this very expensive type of recreation.

Another couple pulled up yesterday in an old beat-up minivan with two kids and a dog.  They are very interested in buying my last two bikes.  The husband commented that they were raising five kids, but had just received their tax return.  He figured they better buy something they wanted before an actual need arise and erased their temporary windfall.  Iím paraphrasing, but that was the gist of his statement.

Itís no wonder most people will work until they are dead or be forced to scrimp by in retirement: regardless of the income level people are drawn to spend more than they can afford.  When given a choice to save more or spend more it seems like the masses favor the latter. I really felt bad for that last couple; they obviously could have put the money to better use, but I also understand that is their decision to make.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: AlexK on February 28, 2015, 11:18:37 AM
I drive a Scion Xa and before that a Geo Metro so I love cheap small cars. But I also have a F250 Powerstroke diesel 4x4 longbed which I use for buying and selling motorcycles and general utility. I have to admit it is an amazing feeling hauling something heavy and accelerating effortlessly up a mountain road with the turbo hissing away.

But driving a full size truck for errands or commuting is just dumb.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: gimp on February 28, 2015, 04:25:20 PM
On that note, I once got passed up-hill on an interstate at 80mph by an F350 towing three more F350s.

I lived mostly in the northeast, where most pickup truck owners used them as dick extensions. Seeing someone use one for its intended purpose warmed my heart.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: GetItRight on February 28, 2015, 08:04:28 PM
Guys who buy new trucks are usually posers who are too dumb to build and engine or transmission or design a suspension. I notice they tend to want some look or image, especially for new lifted trucks with all the bolt on accessories. Get to know any reasonably well and they'll cry a river about the payments. It's both funny and sad.

I have a truck, but it cost me less to drive than a Prius or some other new luxury vehicle. If you want a truck just buy one. Plenty of good trucks out there for $1000 or so. Cheap to buy, insure, maintain, and drive. I have a truck because my passion in life and reason to FIRE requires towing. I also want to be able to do anything at any time, with my hobbies and side jobs that means a truck makes life a lot easier. I also want independence to never be "stuck", never worrying about weather, flooded out roads or a few feet of snow. I never want anything in my way of doing what I want to do for either fun or making a buck, a reliable and capable truck is part of that. Of course I also have a motorcycle that gets 50 MPG and costs under $100/yr to insure... Both because I'm cheap and riding is fun. I tend to find the cheapest way to satisfy whatever is important to me. A truck may be a requirement for some, but it's one that can be met for anywhere from $500-$100,000.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: RWD on February 28, 2015, 10:28:48 PM
The new Ford trucks are mostly aluminum, which is pretty cool in addition to being lightweight.

The lightest Ford F-150s are still 4700+ lb and they can get heavier than 5700 lb... The F-350 can weigh over 7000 lb.

My car weighs under 2800 lb.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: bzzzt on March 01, 2015, 03:27:01 PM
The new Ford trucks are mostly aluminum, which is pretty cool in addition to being lightweight.

The lightest Ford F-150s are still 4700+ lb and they can get heavier than 5700 lb... The F-350 can weigh over 7000 lb.

My car weighs under 2800 lb.

My truck loaded with camper, trailer, and 5 people weighs 18000lbs and gets 11MPG. Does that mean I get to multiply the mileage by how many times heavier it is than your car? I'm still on the same tank of diesel since early November since I don't drive it to the grocery store.

Trucks used correctly have a purpose and aren't totally unmustachian. Large, heavy objects have to get to places somehow.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: Syonyk on March 01, 2015, 06:03:11 PM
As a very nice 1997 F350 diesel owner (crew cab, long bed, 5th wheel hitch, two 2" receivers, brake controller, etc):

I don't drive it much. :)  And my wife's family does antique cars as a hobby.  A truck is just another tool.  You can use a tool well, or you can use it poorly.  A lot of trucks on the road are used poorly.  A clean bed is a good sign of this.  As is a bed topper.  A dirty bed, or a bed that's heavily scraped up, probably means the truck sees a lot of use as a truck.

Since new trucks are such a devestating barrier to FI, my question is why do Americans insist on buying more new pickups than any other pssenger vehicle?

"Because I want to be able to haul anything, any time, anywhere."  Which is useful, if you use the truck for that.  Or if you want to be seen as the type of person who has a truck for that.  It's hard to tell the difference sometimes.

Anyways, I think a lot of people associate a truck with masculinity.

Sorry, I've never much cared for trucks. The only advantage to owning one is that I could be active in a local charity that helps set currently homeless people up with homes (along with jobs and transition counseling resources) which I think is a pretty decent idea.

I find shiny new trucks amusing, but not really a good indicator of masculinity.  Personally, I find an older, well maintained truck to be far better indicator of solid masculinity.  I may be biased by owning one, though.  A new truck means, "I can sign on the dotted line!"  An older truck, still in excellent shape, often means, "I can actually maintain my vehicles myself."  The second is far more awesome.  Someone who owns a big truck and maintains it themselves is, to me, far more awesome than someone who owns a shiny new truck and lets the dealership take care of everything.  And, if I'm honest, older trucks have a lot of things that need maintaining.  I can't say I mind, though.  I like spending a sunny Saturday working on vehicles.

Also, with regards to the charity, the value of a truck goes up in relation to how few people around you have a truck.  If everyone has a truck, it's not that useful.  If you're one of very few people in your social circles/work circles/etc with a truck, it's a whole lot more valuable.  Assuming you remember to suggest people pay you for diesel.  I've made good spending money hauling stuff for people, made what amount to free dump runs by grabbing big stuff from other people, and generally try to make use of it as a truck whenever I can.  It also means my wife & I can buy used furniture and haul it home (useful with a kid on the way), when otherwise that would be somewhat difficult, and we might be tempted to buy something more expensive because it had delivery as an option.

And, as a friend of mine used to say, "if you have a truck, you always have work", as they have tremendous utility for hauling and towing.

IFF (if and only if) you use it like that.  A lot of people have a truck, but aren't willing to use it as a truck.

But I also have a F250 Powerstroke diesel 4x4 longbed which I use for buying and selling motorcycles and general utility.

What year?  The F250 comes as a supercab with the long bed, right?  Being able to show up and haul off non-working motorcycles to fix seems a nice little cash side gig. :)

The lightest Ford F-150s are still 4700+ lb and they can get heavier than 5700 lb... The F-350 can weigh over 7000 lb.

Yup.  Mine is over 8k lbs with me in it and full tanks. :)

========

Anyway, to the OP: Your question should not be, "Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?"  The question should be, "If I can justify a truck, what is the most reasonable way to obtain one?"  And a used truck can be had for not very much, and will still do a very fine job of hauling large things and heavy things.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: RWD on March 02, 2015, 08:39:54 AM
The new Ford trucks are mostly aluminum, which is pretty cool in addition to being lightweight.

The lightest Ford F-150s are still 4700+ lb and they can get heavier than 5700 lb... The F-350 can weigh over 7000 lb.

My car weighs under 2800 lb.

My truck loaded with camper, trailer, and 5 people weighs 18000lbs and gets 11MPG. Does that mean I get to multiply the mileage by how many times heavier it is than your car? I'm still on the same tank of diesel since early November since I don't drive it to the grocery store.

Trucks used correctly have a purpose and aren't totally unmustachian. Large, heavy objects have to get to places somehow.

It's just silly to call an F-150, even an aluminum one, "lightweight". I agree that there are plenty of use cases where a truck makes sense. The daily commute my coworker does in his dualie is not one of them...
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: Syonyk on March 02, 2015, 08:54:04 AM
The new F150 is a very lightweight truck for it's capacity.  As long as you're in that context, the term makes sense when applied to it. :)

It's rated 19 city/26 highway, which is damned fine for a truck.  Mine gets about 11 city, 13 highway.  When I ever drive it enough to calculate fuel burn.  My topper doesn't help me any there...
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: jba302 on March 02, 2015, 09:45:40 AM
A truck is definitely in my hobby-farm projected future. Converted to run on self-grown sunflower seed oil, of course.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: lisahi on March 02, 2015, 09:56:30 AM
I live in Texas and have come to hate trucks. They take too much space in parking lots, they make it difficult for other cars to enter or exit parking spots, they are generally not used for the purpose in which they were built by those who drive them, and MY GOD YOUR TRUCK IS SO BIG YET YOU LIVE IN A SUBURB AND YOU NEVER HAUL ANYTHING.

Phew... nice to get that out.

Seriously, though, trucks do annoy me, especially when it's clear a truck was bought solely for the "masculine" "look-at-my-huge-ass-truck" factor. The worst truck commercial is that one where "real" people are brought in to say what they think about a guy standing in front of a sensible 4-door and the same guy standing in front of a ginormous, shiny, new truck (with a city in the background). When I see the guy standing in front of the new truck I think, "what an a-hole; he probably parks in two parking spots and lives in an apartment."

Not entirely fair of me to be making such assumptions, but my need to rebel against the "everything is bigger in Texas" mantra sometimes gets to me.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: James on March 02, 2015, 10:30:34 AM
I have owned a huge F250 and two Silverado trucks. The last one I owned was a nice black Silverado about 8 years old, just felt great, I miss that truck a lot.


Having said that, I don't know why I loved driving a truck so much, I certainly didn't need one, though I did tow a boat and other trailers which handled a lot better than towing with my Subaru. (And I borrowed a bobcat pretty frequently which needed a big truck to haul, but I could have borrowed a truck with it) The height and power just felt good I guess, I feel no shame in saying I loved driving a truck and miss it. Not going to buy one since I don't need it, but I do miss my truck... :)
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: v10viperbox on March 02, 2015, 10:54:28 AM
I think it has a little bit to do with the need for instant gratification and a bit to do with keeping up with the Jones.  I have a 2005 F150; been paid off for years and I try to drive it only when I absolutely need to.  But I do love driving it, and when one of those new shiny F150,250, or 350ís pull up next to me with $3-4K dollars worth of tires and rims I do feel a small bit of desire begin to swell up within me.  Fortunately my desire for FI outweighs these types of urges and they get face punched and quickly subside.


I get the same thing with my 2000 F350 XL, did get one with AC though, no stereo or even power windows.  Of course I look at how shiny they are and how I have 2K lbs in manure or mulch in my bed most of the time and think about cleaning something that big and trying not to scratch it when loading up stuff at Home Depot.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: ABC123 on March 02, 2015, 11:07:37 AM
I live in Texas and have come to hate trucks. They take too much space in parking lots, they make it difficult for other cars to enter or exit parking spots, they are generally not used for the purpose in which they were built by those who drive them, and MY GOD YOUR TRUCK IS SO BIG YET YOU LIVE IN A SUBURB AND YOU NEVER HAUL ANYTHING.

Phew... nice to get that out.

Seriously, though, trucks do annoy me, especially when it's clear a truck was bought solely for the "masculine" "look-at-my-huge-ass-truck" factor. The worst truck commercial is that one where "real" people are brought in to say what they think about a guy standing in front of a sensible 4-door and the same guy standing in front of a ginormous, shiny, new truck (with a city in the background). When I see the guy standing in front of the new truck I think, "what an a-hole; he probably parks in two parking spots and lives in an apartment."

Not entirely fair of me to be making such assumptions, but my need to rebel against the "everything is bigger in Texas" mantra sometimes gets to me.

I'm in Tennessee, and trucks are way too pervasive here as well.  So many people I know drive trucks just to drive around, no actual hauling or towing.  Such a ridiculous waste.  And that commercial drives me insane.  I don't see many commercials, but I just happened to turn on the tv to check the weather (yeah, should have just looked it up online) and it was on.  Really?  These women are admitting out loud that they are judging other people based solely on what they drive?  Nice.  Maybe I'm weird, but I think that commercial says a lot more about the women that it does about the men who drive cars vs. trucks.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: Bardo on March 02, 2015, 11:12:15 AM
Anyways, I think a lot of people associate a truck with masculinity. Guys don't want to feel they gave up their precious manhood so they buy big, fancy toys.


I very much agree.  It is obvious that trucks are styled and marketed as emblems of masculinity, or at least very strongly targeted at men.  As for me, the day I start defining my masculinity by the vehicle I drive, you can shoot me dead.  I'm more than happy with my non-studly little hatchback. 
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: RFAAOATB on March 02, 2015, 11:52:42 AM
The cars and trucks are getting bigger but parking lot spaces aren't.  Unless parking spaces increase their width by a foot I might just make my next car a midget car or something.  I wouldn't mind a medium sized truck, but dealing with city traffic would get me all angry like at the tiny cramped parking spots.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: zephyr911 on March 02, 2015, 12:03:29 PM
The new F150 is a very lightweight truck for it's capacity.  As long as you're in that context, the term makes sense when applied to it. :)

It's rated 19 city/26 highway, which is damned fine for a truck.  Mine gets about 11 city, 13 highway.  When I ever drive it enough to calculate fuel burn.  My topper doesn't help me any there...
I knew a guy who swore by the camper shell for MPG. Said he got near 30 after adding it.
I'm in Tennessee, and trucks are way too pervasive here as well.  So many people I know drive trucks just to drive around, no actual hauling or towing.  Such a ridiculous waste.  And that commercial drives me insane.  I don't see many commercials, but I just happened to turn on the tv to check the weather (yeah, should have just looked it up online) and it was on.  Really?  These women are admitting out loud that they are judging other people based solely on what they drive?  Nice.  Maybe I'm weird, but I think that commercial says a lot more about the women that it does about the men who drive cars vs. trucks.
Same in Bama. My office parking lot is full of full-size trucks and SUVs that are strictly suburban commuter vehicles.
As for what it says about the women... I can't agree enough. I'm so glad I'm not with someone like that.
I live in Texas and have come to hate trucks.
***
Not entirely fair of me to be making such assumptions, but my need to rebel against the "everything is bigger in Texas" mantra sometimes gets to me.
When I last lived in Texas I drove a 2-door 1994 Escort and I had nothing but hatred for all those show-offs.

I will be the first guy to show up and help you move, I do more construction/etc. than most people I know, and I haul all my shit in a compact hatchback. If I need a truck, which happens a couple of times a year, I rent one using a tiny fraction of the money I saved by not having one for my daily driver. It's just math.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: Syonyk on March 02, 2015, 01:03:56 PM
I knew a guy who swore by the camper shell for MPG. Said he got near 30 after adding it.

It depends on the shell.  Mine has a bit of a rise towards the rear, which is nice for interior storage space in the Seattle area, but isn't good for fuel economy.  A "straight" shell would probably have less impact on economy.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: Money Badger on March 02, 2015, 08:48:48 PM
Some great replies and thanks for the ideas all...  I won't reply to all of them but will respond to several of the comments around by saying "my yardstick of manhood is that something I drive is paid for the day I drive it off the lot."  :)   I've also been down the $2500 truck money pit route before.   And many newer trucks are worth darn near as much 3-4 years old as they were new due both to their utility factor and most recently due to the crazy inflation in truck content and prices in recent years.

I guess at 46 with a decent stash and a daughter who needs a set of wheels this fall, I want to find something that handles the projects and things I like to do, rides nice, has room for our dogs and that has modern safety goodies on it that I'll save my shekels and pay cash for...     I had a $7500 Mazda B2000 pickup w/manual back in late 80s/early 90s and that vehicle was cheap to run and did almost everything I ever used my "fancy pants trucks" for later in life (except a very poor choice of owning a boat for exactly 1 year because "hey, I have a truck that I need to tow something with").   [self face punch]   

I've looked at a new GMC Canyon base model extra-cab for around $21K MSRP with a 6 speed that has the goodies I'd need, gets respectable MPG, and that would haul all I'd ever need (plus tow a Uhaul to college for oldest or a small landscape trailer locally up to 3500 lbs).   I'll have to mull over this one and let the prices come down a bit over the summer or a good used truck w/manual pops up...   
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: Forcus on March 04, 2015, 10:26:28 AM
I empathize with you.

I would really like to have a 2014-15 Dodge Ram Ecodiesel. 27 MPG in a truck that can haul us (two of us and dogs) on a trip comfortably sounds fantastic. 4x4, uber comfortable, reliable, loaded with cool stuff like side tool boxes and integrated trailer braking. All the latest safety gear too. But even though our savings rate is over 50% I just cannot stomach spending 30k+ on a vehicle. Another thing, loaded with computers, tough to work on, have heard the transmission fluid change costs upwards of $1k (by design). So that 27 MPG is quickly more than offset by all the other costs (not that costs are the only driver).

The Colorado / Canyon are cool. But in reality with all the discounts on the full sizers, price is very similar. You'd have to want the smaller size which is not that much smaller anyways. I am looking forward to seeing what the diesel (2016?) puts out MPG wise in these. But similar to the Ram above, we are talking every bit of 30k if not more (if they lard up the diesel with mandatory option packages, etc.).

Be careful looking at used trucks too. I've been keeping my eye on 3 cylinder Fiestas and it is very clear the initial round of used cars were used in magazine testing, etc., and so you can bet they've been beat on. At least for Fords it appears Ford corporate owns them and they are dispersed out of Michigan. Very often called "executive cars" I doubt very many corporate types drive around stick Colorados or 3 cylinder Fiestas.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: Syonyk on March 04, 2015, 12:13:24 PM
I'd love something slightly larger than a Ford Ranger with a tiny little diesel and a manual transmission. :)
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: Travis on March 04, 2015, 12:38:29 PM
Despite a serious disconnect between popularity and actual need, Ford and Dodge have done a magnificent job marketing their products.  The Ford dealership where I get my Focus serviced has an F-450 in the showroom!  This is a $70k vehicle that was likely designed to pull farm equipment and/or possibly live out of, but here it is being showcased right next to a Cobra and a Fiesta in a Tacoma, WA dealership.  It's the only truck in the showroom and with their much lighter F-150s being the draw I'm trying to understand why this vehicle is taking up precious advertising space.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: horsepoor on March 04, 2015, 08:49:14 PM
I have an F-250 extended cab shortbed.  That thing is a pain in the fucking ass to drive around town.  I'm always relieved when I can jump back in my Honda CR-Z and zip in and out of parking lots and flip U-turns on 2-lane streets.  It does a damn' fine job of towing my horse trailer and hauling 2-yard loads of compost home, though.

I'm surprised about posters saying that trucks don't have steep depreciation.  I paid $7800 for mine when it was 9 years old, with 100K miles.  A similar truck new would be $40K, MSRP.  This loosely tracks the depreciation on my old Honda Civic as a % loss each year, but is way more in actual dollars.  50% loss on $40K hurts a lot more than 50% loss on $18K.  I'd never buy a new truck.  Besides, it's easy enough to find one of those nice used ones that someone never really *used*, so it's all shiny and has low miles.  The bed in mine didn't have a scratch until I got ahold of it.  The other day I haunted Craigslist for a few minutes while entertaining the thought of a slightly newer truck - same version in diesel with fewer miles and a few years newer for $15-17K, means someone is eating over $35K in depreciation over about 8-10 years.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: AlexK on March 04, 2015, 10:47:42 PM
I have an F-250 extended cab shortbed.  That thing is a pain in the fucking ass to drive around town.  I'm always relieved when I can jump back in my Honda CR-Z and zip in and out of parking lots and flip U-turns on 2-lane streets.  It does a damn' fine job of towing my horse trailer and hauling 2-yard loads of compost home, though.

I'm surprised about posters saying that trucks don't have steep depreciation.  I paid $7800 for mine when it was 9 years old, with 100K miles.  A similar truck new would be $40K, MSRP.  This loosely tracks the depreciation on my old Honda Civic as a % loss each year, but is way more in actual dollars.  50% loss on $40K hurts a lot more than 50% loss on $18K.  I'd never buy a new truck.  Besides, it's easy enough to find one of those nice used ones that someone never really *used*, so it's all shiny and has low miles.  The bed in mine didn't have a scratch until I got ahold of it.  The other day I haunted Craigslist for a few minutes while entertaining the thought of a slightly newer truck - same version in diesel with fewer miles and a few years newer for $15-17K, means someone is eating over $35K in depreciation over about 8-10 years.

Be sure to research the ford diesels before buying. '94 to '02 use the 7.3l powestroke which has a great reputation. Later models, especially the 6.0 years, can be terrible money pits. I ended up buying a 2002 7.3l with 6speed for $7500 even though I saw some newer 6.0 trucks in the $5k range. A diesel should be cheap right now considering how expensive the fuel is.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: horsepoor on March 05, 2015, 06:20:01 AM
Oh, don't worry, I am not buying one, but sometimes I look. :)  Current truck is a 2000 with the gas V-10.  Goal is to keep it until at least 2020.  It's just a baby with 112K on the odometer, and I only drive it a few thousand miles per year.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: Forcus on March 05, 2015, 08:24:19 AM
I'm surprised about posters saying that trucks don't have steep depreciation.

I think there are a couple things here. One is where you are located. Where I am at, work trucks are somewhat life limited due to rust and high miles, everything requires travel to get to, farms are big, etc. Not uncommon to see 5 year old trucks with 200k+. Also there are so many incentives and the dealers are pretty cutthroat, that MSRP is not a good indicator of depreciation. Typically you can get a new truck around here up to 25% off MSRP. And everyone (here) wants a truck so there is a healthy used market for those who can't afford new.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: Syonyk on March 05, 2015, 01:09:38 PM
Be sure to research the ford diesels before buying. '94 to '02 use the 7.3l powestroke which has a great reputation. Later models, especially the 6.0 years, can be terrible money pits. I ended up buying a 2002 7.3l with 6speed for $7500 even though I saw some newer 6.0 trucks in the $5k range. A diesel should be cheap right now considering how expensive the fuel is.

Yup.  The 7.3 Powerstroke is an awesome engine, and prices for those trucks with low miles seem to be generally holding steady or going up a little bit as people get tired of fighting with the newer engines or having to drop $5k+ on work to make them reliable (basically, reengineering the motor...)

I wouldn't buy a 6.0 for $5k.  That's someone else's problem they're trying to get rid of.  I'm perfectly happy with my infrequently driven 7.3 CCLB.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: bzzzt on March 05, 2015, 02:18:43 PM
I wouldn't buy a 6.0 for $5k.  That's someone else's problem they're trying to get rid of.  I'm perfectly happy with my infrequently driven 7.3 CCLB.

The guy I bought my 6.0L from spent the money to bullet proof it early in it's life and then was going to trade it in on a diesel pusher motor home a few years ago. So, I got it for just above trade price. It's been great. Nothing but oil changes, fuel filters, and tires.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: Syonyk on March 05, 2015, 04:20:44 PM
That's not a bad option.  How much premium does a bulletproofed 6.0 fetch over a stock one?
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: Northerly on March 05, 2015, 04:35:16 PM
Be sure to research the ford diesels before buying. '94 to '02 use the 7.3l powestroke which has a great reputation. Later models, especially the 6.0 years, can be terrible money pits. I ended up buying a 2002 7.3l with 6speed for $7500 even though I saw some newer 6.0 trucks in the $5k range. A diesel should be cheap right now considering how expensive the fuel is.

Yup.  The 7.3 Powerstroke is an awesome engine, and prices for those trucks with low miles seem to be generally holding steady or going up a little bit as people get tired of fighting with the newer engines or having to drop $5k+ on work to make them reliable (basically, reengineering the motor...)

I wouldn't buy a 6.0 for $5k.  That's someone else's problem they're trying to get rid of.  I'm perfectly happy with my infrequently driven 7.3 CCLB.

Yes, the 7.3 is a great engine. BUT: there are recurring expensive maintenance items, and they are rarely run optimally in a pickup. I used one in my land surveying company here in Alaska, but wouldn't again. They really are built for long highway hauling, and are too heavy for a pickup anyway. The truck basically falls apart around the expensive-to-maintain engine. I found my rather babied 7.3 to be a very solid money pit. I simply wasn't using it the way it was intended.

My uncles, on the other hand, have them in their large International box trucks, putting on about 500 long haul miles a day. They have had several go over 500,000 miles, with one rounding 1 million miles with only a preventative top end rebuild.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: SpicyMcHaggus on March 06, 2015, 08:20:14 AM
Buy a hitch for your car and a small utility trailer.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: Syonyk on March 06, 2015, 08:44:38 AM
Depends on where you live and what you're moving. Most small cars with a ton hanging behind then are not very good in mountain areas.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: xenon5 on March 09, 2015, 08:35:55 PM
Are pickup trucks mostly a southern/western thing?  I can only think of 1 person in my very large extended family who ever owned a pickup truck, and she moved down south 30+ years ago in her 20s.  I've known very few people personally who've owned pickup trucks, and most of them had some kind of business that required it.  I've always just associated pickup trucks with commercial use.

SUVs, of course, are another story!
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: horsepoor on March 09, 2015, 10:02:54 PM
Are pickup trucks mostly a southern/western thing?  I can only think of 1 person in my very large extended family who ever owned a pickup truck, and she moved down south 30+ years ago in her 20s.  I've known very few people personally who've owned pickup trucks, and most of them had some kind of business that required it.  I've always just associated pickup trucks with commercial use.

SUVs, of course, are another story!

Probably.  There are just absolute shitloads of them here.  It's funny, the skiing/camping set mostly drives Subarus, and the hunting/fishing set drives pickemups.  And then there are the many who have a truck just to have a truck.  Obviously mine tows a horse trailer, so a full-sized truck is needed for safely hauling a 6,000# live load.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: One Noisy Cat on March 10, 2015, 05:48:15 AM
Are pickup trucks mostly a southern/western thing?  I can only think of 1 person in my very large extended family who ever owned a pickup truck, and she moved down south 30+ years ago in her 20s.  I've known very few people personally who've owned pickup trucks, and most of them had some kind of business that required it.  I've always just associated pickup trucks with commercial use.

SUVs, of course, are another story!


Apparently North Dakota and Alaska are the most popular, with almost 40% of the vehicles being pick ups.  High percentage and size of population means Texas accounts for 20% of sales nationwide. State where trucks are least popular? New Jersey-slightly under 5%

http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2013-10-03/texas-key-to-pickup-truck-makers-success
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: caliq on March 10, 2015, 03:26:12 PM
Are pickup trucks mostly a southern/western thing?  I can only think of 1 person in my very large extended family who ever owned a pickup truck, and she moved down south 30+ years ago in her 20s.  I've known very few people personally who've owned pickup trucks, and most of them had some kind of business that required it.  I've always just associated pickup trucks with commercial use.

SUVs, of course, are another story!

Your location says NYC, so that might be why.  I'm from central CT, maybe 2 hours outside the city, but grew up in a pretty small town (<10k people).  Pick up trucks are a pretty big deal there, especially with the teenage boys who like to hunt and fish and go mudding.  My dad always had one, but it was a delivery truck for his small business and very much used & abused for it's intended purpose.  The other subset is horse people -- I've been riding since I was 4 and I know lots of very non-stereotypical pickup owners.  My favorite is the teeny tiny "high maintenance career woman" in her 30s who commutes to NYC several days a week on the train, but has a monster dually truck driven exclusively on the weekends xD
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: Forcus on March 11, 2015, 09:31:49 AM
Another to add to why pickups are popular around here (Central IL). Lots of farming, hunting, construction. Winter is 6-7 months long. Then when winter ends, the ground thaws and it's two months of absolute mush (maybe exagerating, but I am moving stuff out of one of my houses now and it is ridiculous). There is a lot of work that would not happen without trucks around here.

THAT BEING SAID there is also a large contingent of people who drive trucks as an alternate to luxury vehicles and not for real work like the above. $40-50k will get you a loaded truck that can pull a trailer full of toys vs. a 3 series BMW with only a few options, so given that, people gravitate towards trucks. Not saying it's right, just making an observation as to why things are the way they are around here in Central IL.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: Syonyk on March 11, 2015, 09:43:25 AM
The really sad thing is that the luxury trucks are driving out the work trucks, with regards to features/cost/etc.  A friend of mine was looking for a truck to replace his late 70s truck that was rusting away on him (I think he had plywood on the floor to cover the rust holes under his feet) - he mows lawns in the summer and tows a pretty good equipment trailer for that, and I think he hauls a bobcat on occasion to clear out construction mud for people (and get the cops called on him, because a bobcat bucket banging on the road apparently sounds like gunshots to some people).  He had a truly hard time finding a basic work truck - regular cab, no fancy features, just a basic 2WD truck to move his mowers & stuff with.

It's properly hard to find a cheap, basic truck anymore.  And the cheap, basic trucks aren't even that cheap!
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: adam on March 11, 2015, 09:58:28 AM
Cheap, basic, full sized trucks are $35k+

I know because before I bought mine I thought I might be able to get a new F150 with the 5.0 V8 or the shiny new ecoboost (admittedly, not super basic).  LOL nope.  I imagine my used Chevy will tow just as well and last just as long.  It better, because I don't want to think about new truck prices.

edit:Actually just went and built a super basic F150 with the regular 3.5l V6 (tows 5k lbs), regular cab.  Still $27k.  Nobody wants a regular cab.  Just check resale values on them.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: Syonyk on March 11, 2015, 10:03:46 AM
Oh, here's a good reason NOT to buy a pickup:

If you own one, keep it parked on the side of the road (out of the way, careful to get the wheels up and over the curb so you're taking less of the road space), but don't drive it every day (because your 5 mile commute to work is better served by a bicycle or an ebike), your HOA might get upset with you since vehicles parked on the side of the road have to move every 48h, and if you only drive your truck when you actually need to haul stuff, you're violating the Sacred HOA Agreement and are subject to getting towed.  Or so the notice I got recently said.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: horsepoor on March 11, 2015, 12:39:12 PM
That sounds like a good reason not to live in an HOA. ;)
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: Syonyk on March 11, 2015, 12:47:44 PM
That sounds like a good reason not to live in an HOA. ;)

Oh, believe me.  I know.  We're there another year then moving somewhere radically more rural.

Almost every time I complain about HOAs, someone points out that I'm exactly the kind of person HOAs are intended to repel or deter.  Since I see nothing wrong with a project vehicle or two on jackstands (not cinder blocks - have some class!), a dirtbike in a few pieces, some chickens in the yard, etc...
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: damize on March 11, 2015, 02:37:19 PM
Obviously mine tows a horse trailer, so a full-sized truck is needed for safely hauling a 6,000# live load.

I lived 14 years in Germany and could count the non-American pickup trucks on the road with one hand.   Stuttgart is horse country and most of the time a little 4-banger would be pulling the ponies.  Picture is an example.

Not judging, don't get me wrong...but the global perspective on trucks is interesting.  You rarely see them outside of the US or the middle east.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: SpicyMcHaggus on March 11, 2015, 02:37:41 PM
Used to rent a condo where the HOA didn't have rules against but constantly nagged me about parking my truck in the driveway.
Then it was the trash cans.

I told them I had my car, my GF's car, my motorcycle, and 2 oversize trash bins. If they would show me a way to fit it all in, I would gladly comply. They never said anything, so I put them both back out in the driveway.

I moved shortly after. Never have I thought there was a greater waste of $290/ month than an HOA.
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: caliq on March 11, 2015, 03:34:03 PM
Obviously mine tows a horse trailer, so a full-sized truck is needed for safely hauling a 6,000# live load.

I lived 14 years in Germany and could count the non-American pickup trucks on the road with one hand.   Stuttgart is horse country and most of the time a little 4-banger would be pulling the ponies.  Picture is an example.

Not judging, don't get me wrong...but the global perspective on trucks is interesting.  You rarely see them outside of the US or the middle east.

That's a fiberglass horse trailer.  It's significantly lighter than even the aluminum ones you see in the US.  If you're a truly mustachian horse owner (oxymoron?), you'd probably have a stock trailer, which are frequently steel.  Brenderup is the fiberglass trailer brand sold in the US and IIRC they're quite expensive :P  So....tradeoffs.  It's not as simple as 'Americans are silly and underestimate their cars.'
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: horsepoor on March 11, 2015, 08:46:28 PM
Yeah, a friend of mine has a Brenderup, but they are no longer sold here; I think she said they are out of business, in fact.  I think her Dodge that she tows it with is a 1/2 ton, but they're designed to be safe with a smaller towing vehicle.  I had a V8 F-150 before and it was way overloaded towing a steel 2-horse with one 1500# horse in it (I've had my horses on the vet scale and that's what the big one weighs) just around town even though the supposed towing capacity was like 7500#.  Not taking it on the interstate or through the mountains on the highway. Never been to Germany, but not sure that it's as mountainous as Idaho?   I do wish more of the Euro style trailers were available here though I sure appreciate the dressing room in my trailer (have an aluminum one now - good for holding value and not rusting).
Title: Re: Why do I want a stupid new pickup truck?
Post by: libertarian4321 on March 12, 2015, 04:46:32 AM
Guys who buy new trucks are usually posers who are too dumb to build and engine or transmission or design a suspension. I notice they tend to want some look or image, especially for new lifted trucks with all the bolt on accessories. Get to know any reasonably well and they'll cry a river about the payments. It's both funny and sad.

Don't ASSume anyone who makes a different choice than you is some sort of idiot or "poser" or broke.

I'm a multimillionaire who drives a full sized truck (Chevy Silverado), bought new, and I love it.

I'm probably smart enough to "build and engine" [sic] since I have two engineering degrees and an MBA, but why would I unless I absolutely had to?  See, that's why I got those degrees, so I would have enough money to hire people like you to do the grunt work, should I need any done.

Why do I prefer my truck to a car?

Mostly, I prefer the way a truck rides to a car.  I'm a big guy, and I prefer the upright seating, as opposed to slumping down on the floor (as is the case with car seating).  I also like that trucks have a much better view of the road (larger windows, you are up higher).  I can't stand driving my wife's little Beemer (and she can't stand driving my truck, to each his own, I guess).

And yeah, they come in handy.  A lot.  It ain't easy to pick up anything from Home Depot in my wife's car, but with a truck, it's easy.  Or helping people move.  Hell, I even helped my company move, twice.  Both times when the move was over, they let me haul away a bunch of free furniture that was left over.  I'll never need to buy office furniture again.  I couldn't have done that with my wife's little passenger car.

We also do a lot of work with animal rescue organizations.  You can fit, maybe, two medium sized dog crates in the back seat of a passenger car, and it's a difficult to shove them in there.  Plus you have to worry about keeping the upholstery clean.  God forbid the dog takes a piss in someones passenger car.   My truck can take 8, easily, it's easy to load and unload, and if a dog pisses in it, I just wipe the bed down, no big deal.

About the only thing I don't like about my truck is the poor gas mileage.  But given that I don't drive a lot of miles in it, it's not really a problem.

Oh yeah, one more thing, trucks hold their resale value VERY well, at least here in Texas.  Much better than passenger cars.  My truck is more than 13 years old, and still worth about 40% of what I paid for it (a car typically loses 60% of it's value in 5 years).

When this one starts to have mechanical problems (it runs great right now), I'll probably get another pickup.