Author Topic: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement  (Read 25665 times)

Kaydedid

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 218
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #100 on: July 26, 2016, 07:10:11 AM »
Anyone COULD live on $32,000, some people just don't want to and would prefer to work more

What about disabled individuals with massive medical bills?
This is our dilemma, although with a disabled child.  H makes ~$45k/year, and our medical costs were about $12k of that last year.  However, state-covered medical care for children kicks in at about $60k income, so costs are coming way down for us this year.  For adults, the income limit is much lower, less than $32k for an individual. 

Our son will have expensive medical needs for the rest of his life, and we plan to make it clear that he needs to choose a line of work that can support this.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


Fishindude

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2141
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #101 on: July 26, 2016, 07:16:20 AM »
Suppose I could if I had to, but I'm not going to.
Budgeting for about 3-4 times that in annual retirement spending.

wenchsenior

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2218
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #102 on: July 26, 2016, 08:33:52 AM »
Suppose I could if I had to, but I'm not going to.
Budgeting for about 3-4 times that in annual retirement spending.

Same. We lived on a little less than that in grad school and I have no desire to go back to that lack of wiggle room or lack of cash flow flexibility. Nor will our health as we age likely allow that. We live on about 45K/yr now but in a low CoL area, and we don't want to stay here. Also, medical expenses are likely to add an average of 5-10/year as we age (maybe more). I'm aiming for a before tax income of 70K per year.

partgypsy

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3515
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #103 on: July 26, 2016, 03:14:03 PM »
I can't give an answer yes or no, but probably no. We have so many expenses (schooling, family insurance, grocery costs, dual cars) that will most likely change once I am in retirement years, I don't have a good way to estimate the "after" amount. Plus my kids haven't hit college years, I'm not sure how much that will affect savings and spending. Plus separating from husband. People living single always costs more (still need to pay for house, prop tax, internet, gas, water, basically all the basic recurring expenses) than a couple who can split costs. I have a friend who lives well on her salary of 25K a year, and another friend with 3 children who lives on I believe even less than that. So I know if I needed to, I probably could do it, especially if I'm not working and can learn and fix/do some things myself versus hiring out.

jinga nation

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1282
  • Location: 'Murica's Johnson
  • Left, Right, Peddlin' Shite
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #104 on: July 27, 2016, 01:19:14 PM »
Asked my wife the title question. She said after 3 years, when the younger kid starts grade school, we can live for less than that.
But will we FIRE when we love our low-stress and enjoyable workplaces with good benefits?
My plan is to quit full-time (40 hr/week) when my youngest goes to college/university. Aiming for FIRE class of summer 2032.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 01:30:57 PM by jinga nation »

tomatops

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 114
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #105 on: July 27, 2016, 01:36:05 PM »
As a single person, I could live off of less than $32K a year (right now costs are $28K excluding discretionary vacations) as a renter. Probably much less if I moved away from the big city.

Married with kids... depends.

snogirl

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 367
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #106 on: July 27, 2016, 01:42:16 PM »
I retired and receive 32k a year right now so yeah I can

snogirl

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 367
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #107 on: July 27, 2016, 01:44:29 PM »
Oh and I forgot to add no health care cost via tricare

Cassie

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5860
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #108 on: July 27, 2016, 02:41:06 PM »
Health care is a huge expense for many people. Glad you have it for free. awesome!  BTW: I know you earned it.

snogirl

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 367
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #109 on: July 27, 2016, 03:11:39 PM »
Health care is a huge expense for many people. Glad you have it for free. awesome!  BTW: I know you earned it.
Thank you.  I know it is a huge cost.  I am helping my mom now it is all good.  :)
Everyone's situation is different and wish everyone happiness whatever that may be for them!

moof

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 557
  • Location: Beaver Town Orygun
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #110 on: July 27, 2016, 06:08:58 PM »
Basic costs:
Health insurance ~5k a year.
Property taxes ~4k a year
Chow ~10k a year (would be lower in actual retirement, wife just does not do math while shopping...)
Utilities ~3k a year
Transportation ~4k a year (gas and average vehicle costs)
Clothes and junk ~3k a year
Total $29k, so $3k leftover for house maintenance and such.

Right now the mortgage at about $20k per year is the biggest impediment.  Need to knock that one down.

Playing with Fire UK

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2630
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #111 on: July 28, 2016, 01:58:51 AM »
If I had health issues and lived in the US on 32k unearned income I'd be looking at relocating to somewhere with a decent social healthcare provision. Or if I needed occasional, planned, expensive treatments I'd be looking at getting them done at private overseas facilities.

I really feel for how much medical care/cover costs in the US. [All of my prescriptions combined cost me 120 per year, at one point I had 8 a month. The most expensive dental treatment is around 220. An hour of private out of pocket (eg if you want to be seen the say day or there isn't a clinical need for it) physio is around 60. If you have zero health problems, all you pay out of pocket is 15 for a dental check up, plus the taxes that pay for all this.]

Making Cookies

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1648
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #112 on: July 28, 2016, 07:29:23 AM »
Has any heard/read that the pharma groups "soak" the USA for the costs of medication/medical research while discounting it to the rest of the world?

I think the idea was that in the rest of the world it is easier to switch to alternatives so if the pharma groups raise the prices too much they loose market share to generics and alternatives.

Here in the "Land of the Free" they have laws and rules that help them lock up the market and thus they can price things higher without losing marketshare. 

I don't know where I heard this so I don't know if it is true.

Playing with Fire UK

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2630
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #113 on: July 28, 2016, 07:34:25 AM »
There are some countries where patents aren't well enforced. But patents are still enforced in the UK and many other countries and pharmaceuticals are a lot cheaper (for the purchaser, not just the end user).

Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5299
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #114 on: July 29, 2016, 04:54:41 AM »
Anyone COULD live on $32,000, some people just don't want to and would prefer to work more

What about disabled individuals with massive medical bills?

The 2017 ACA maximums on out of pocket medical costs are $6550 per individual and $13,100 per family.   So $32,000 - $6550 = $25,450....so could they live on that?  Even if the home is paid for, taxes and insurance and maintenance could make this tough for the a disabled person.

Does that include premiums as well?

Yeah, could be tough. Certainly tougher than for a healthy person. Still better than nothing though, by a long shot.

stoaX

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 522
  • Location: SoCal
  • 'tis nothing good nor bad but thinking makes it so
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #115 on: August 01, 2016, 01:04:33 PM »
Anyone COULD live on $32,000, some people just don't want to and would prefer to work more

What about disabled individuals with massive medical bills?

The 2017 ACA maximums on out of pocket medical costs are $6550 per individual and $13,100 per family.   So $32,000 - $6550 = $25,450....so could they live on that?  Even if the home is paid for, taxes and insurance and maintenance could make this tough for the a disabled person.

Does that include premiums as well?

Yeah, could be tough. Certainly tougher than for a healthy person. Still better than nothing though, by a long shot.

Good point - No, that doesn't include premiums.  Presumably you would be getting subsidized premiums at that income level via the ACA but it would still eat into the budget.  Of course if you lowered your income enough you could get on Medicaid which means close to no out of pocket expenses and no significant premiums.

Reynold

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 229
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #116 on: August 02, 2016, 12:35:16 PM »
The most expensive dental treatment is around 220.

My DW and I have already had around $2000 in dental treatments this year, and it will total over $5k by the year end, and that is with work-provided "dental insurance", though dental insurance in the U.S. typically doesn't cover nearly as much cost as medical.  Based on my best estimates, if we ERed today, we would be spending between 20k and 30k/year on health insurance premiums plus actual costs (deductibles, copays, etc.).   A lower CoL area would help this some, but no, we couldn't live on $32k/year, since we want to do some traveling so we do not plan to reduce our income to Medicaid qualification levels.  Plus, we have seen issues with the quality of doctors who are willing to take Medicaid patients and their low reimbursement rates these days, choices can be very limited. 

Playing with Fire UK

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2630
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #117 on: August 03, 2016, 10:18:27 PM »
The most expensive dental treatment is around 220.

My DW and I have already had around $2000 in dental treatments this year, and it will total over $5k by the year end, and that is with work-provided "dental insurance", though dental insurance in the U.S. typically doesn't cover nearly as much cost as medical.  Based on my best estimates, if we ERed today, we would be spending between 20k and 30k/year on health insurance premiums plus actual costs (deductibles, copays, etc.).   A lower CoL area would help this some, but no, we couldn't live on $32k/year, since we want to do some traveling so we do not plan to reduce our income to Medicaid qualification levels.  Plus, we have seen issues with the quality of doctors who are willing to take Medicaid patients and their low reimbursement rates these days, choices can be very limited.

To clarify, I meant if someone in the UK gets dental treatment from an NHS practitioner, the most they will be required to pay is 220. Not that there are no very expensive dental treatments.

Cassie

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5860
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #118 on: August 04, 2016, 11:24:10 AM »
I had a friend that was self employed and his business went down severely and he was on Medicaid for 2 years. It was almost impossible for him to find anyone that would take it.  Then when he did long waits of course. Now his income is up and he can get on a regular plan and has much more choice.  Dental implants are very expensive. I needed 10 on the bottom and it cost me 33k last year.

zephyr911

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3628
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Northern Alabama
  • I'm just happy to be here. \m/ ^_^ \m/
    • Pinhook Development LLC
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #119 on: August 04, 2016, 01:33:55 PM »
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/retirement/could-you-live-on-just-dollar32000-per-year-most-retirees-do/ar-BBukkwQ?li=BBnbfcN

$48,000 married and $19,000 unmarried to get to median household income of $32,000.
How does that math work?

Anywho... I'm a little over $32k personally at the moment, by deliberate choice and for personal reasons, but was well below it at one point so I know I could easily get back there. Between me and DW we're probably right around that $48k. We'll never be hardcore MMM'ers but we're saving more than spending, which is a good rule of thumb for us.

radram

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 956
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #120 on: August 05, 2016, 08:00:54 AM »
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/retirement/could-you-live-on-just-dollar32000-per-year-most-retirees-do/ar-BBukkwQ?li=BBnbfcN

$48,000 married and $19,000 unmarried to get to median household income of $32,000.
How does that math work?

remember it is median, not mean(often called the average)

Here is how I would do it:
For married, list all incomes of all married people from lowest to highest... grab the middle number (or the average of the 2"middle" numbers if an even number of incomes)
for single, do the same
for everyone, make 1 more list of ALL incomes and grab the middle number

Not really math as much as sorting, but still just as fun. :)

Have a great day.



Reynold

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 229
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #121 on: August 05, 2016, 02:18:17 PM »

My DW and I have already had around $2000 in dental treatments this year, and it will total over $5k by the year end, and that is with work-provided "dental insurance", though dental insurance in the U.S. typically doesn't cover nearly as much cost as medical.  Based on my best estimates, if we ERed today, we would be spending between 20k and 30k/year on health insurance premiums plus actual costs (deductibles, copays, etc.).   A lower CoL area would help this some, but no, we couldn't live on $32k/year, since we want to do some traveling so we do not plan to reduce our income to Medicaid qualification levels.  Plus, we have seen issues with the quality of doctors who are willing to take Medicaid patients and their low reimbursement rates these days, choices can be very limited.
$30k just on annual premiums??? How?  The highest unsubsidized plans, which dont have deductibles or co pays, seem to be under $1000/month/person. Less if on a family plan.

In my state, given my and my spouse's ages, an average family silver plan for the two of us is ~$1200/month, with a $5,000 deductible, $10,000 out of pocket max.  Given the low level of coverage it has for out of network doctors and hospitals, and our recent medical issues, we would definitely be hitting the deductible each year (12 x $1200 + $5000 = $19,400.  If we reach the out of pocket max, which is possible, though I'd have to get more detailed with which doctors are covered for each plan and such, that would be $24,000. 

If I put in ages 10 years from now, which is still before we qualify for Medicare, premiums are at ~$1850/month, or $27,200/year with the deductible, over $30k at out of pocket max.  Obviously a very large chunk of $32k in the OP.  A better than average (higher premiums) plan might reduce this total, if it has a broader network, but that would need more detailed analysis than we've bothered with since we aren't ER'd yet. 

I think some people on the forum who have done those projections may not realize that the premium cost and coverage vary a lot by age and state.  One thing we plan to research when ERing soon is what locations are cheaper for that, since moving to a state with $800 premiums, for example, might save more than we'd lose with higher taxes.  A worry is that places with cheaper coverage, in particular rural areas, seem to fast be losing ACA insurers, as they can't get their plans to work there, and the places that are keeping them are raising rates by 10% a year or more.  It doesn't take many years of 10% increases before $19.5k above for ER today passes the entire $32k budget. 

sbdebeste

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 31
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #122 on: August 15, 2016, 12:35:36 PM »
One of the most key lines from the article, IMO:

Be happy. The silver lining? Many retirees despite modest incomes are happy. More than nine in 10 (94%) retirees say they are generally happy, 90% are enjoying life and 84% have a strong sense of purpose.

Awesome to see!

joleran

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 175
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #123 on: August 15, 2016, 02:08:38 PM »
It doesn't take many years of 10% increases before $19.5k above for ER today passes the entire $32k budget.

Except if you are only making $32k when it comes time to file taxes as a married couple, you would be capped at paying around $2000/yr in premiums due to the subsidy.

http://www.valuepenguin.com/understanding-aca-subsidies

stoaX

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 522
  • Location: SoCal
  • 'tis nothing good nor bad but thinking makes it so
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #124 on: August 16, 2016, 05:24:29 PM »
If I had health issues and lived in the US on 32k unearned income I'd be looking at relocating to somewhere with a decent social healthcare provision. 

If you were a US citizen with health issues, how easy would it be to re-locate somewhere with social healthcare?   I always thought you had to have a job in the new country and be able to meet residency requirements and/or jump through other hoops.  And that's why before the affordable care act in the United States you didn't see mass migrations of uninsured Americans going to Canada or elsewhere...

Cassie

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5860
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #125 on: August 16, 2016, 05:33:01 PM »
Most countries have rules about how much $ you must have in a bank in their country, income etc because they can't afford to take care of US retirees in addition to their own.

Playing with Fire UK

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2630
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #126 on: August 17, 2016, 04:48:45 AM »
Even if you couldn't get social healthcare, you can move places where private healthcare for non-residents is more affordable than the US.

For free treatment in the UK you need to be lawfully and ordinarily resident here (ie not visiting). No requirements based on nationality, work history, property ownership, how long you've been in the country, etc.

If you are not an EEA citizen and have indefinite leave to remain in the UK you will be entitled to free NHS treatment. To get your ILR you will need to have applied for a visa / exemption to get into the country legally.

Giro

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 604
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #127 on: August 17, 2016, 09:00:26 AM »
I think the best thing EVERYONE can do to try and control costs is to take care of your health.  Exercise and eat right every day. 

I'm very thankful that I have never had to pay for health insurance.  I have always had good coverage with my employers and now I'm covered by Tricare. 


MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3643
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #128 on: August 17, 2016, 10:26:52 AM »
I think the best thing EVERYONE can do to try and control costs is to take care of your health.  Exercise and eat right every day. 

You're correct, this is the second best thing we can do. It's also something that's going to have the highest lifetime ROI.

Another way of putting it is from a 58 year old man at my gym who's overweight and knows it, "It's easier to grow old if you aren't fat."

TheGrimSqueaker

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2193
  • Location: A desert wasteland, where none but the weird survive
  • www.theliveinlandlord.com
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #129 on: August 17, 2016, 01:36:41 PM »
If I had health issues and lived in the US on 32k unearned income I'd be looking at relocating to somewhere with a decent social healthcare provision. 

If you were a US citizen with health issues, how easy would it be to re-locate somewhere with social healthcare?   I always thought you had to have a job in the new country and be able to meet residency requirements and/or jump through other hoops.  And that's why before the affordable care act in the United States you didn't see mass migrations of uninsured Americans going to Canada or elsewhere...

You're right: you'd find it difficult. There are reasons there hasn't been a mass US migration.

It's hard to get by in Canada and find employment without proof of legal residency. A person with the right family connections can sometimes find "under the table" employment if they have significant family connections, but depending on what province it is, many social programs aren't going to be available if a person doesn't have the legal right to be there.

To immigrate legally there's an evaluation process that considers age (number of financially productive years), profession, language skills, and a bunch of other stuff. If you've got skills the region needs you go to the head of the line and there's a 6-month turnaround for permanent residency papers using the "express" process that came out last year. Otherwise I hear people have to wait a while. A person who waits until their old and sick and then tries to immigrate is less likely to get the express option.

There's an independent medical exam: people with serious health conditions aren't allowed to stay. There's also a criminal background check and a financial background check. It's pretty exhaustive. To get a police certificate from, say, the United States you do have to send in your fingerprints and get a FBI database check. (Yes, immigrants to Canada are indeed fingerprinted. Nobody seems to find it scandalous.)

Anyone with a criminal record (including impaired driving or a drug record), or who's committed a crime that would justify a 10-year sentence in Canada is ineligible (even if they didn't get caught or convicted). Same goes for someone with a serious financial problem, or who's married to or supporting someone with any of those situations. That simply rules out most of the working poor or people who grow up in generational poverty. Something like 65 to 70 million US citizens (roughly a fourth of the population) has a criminal record of some kind, and that's roughly a quarter of the population. By contrast, Canada's population is a little over 35 million.

In general-- and this is everywhere on our planet-- when a less populous nation lives next door to a big, populous one that contains two adult criminals for every man, woman, and child in the little nation, the little nation is going to have some cultural paranoia about barbarian invaders. Canada's immigration laws do reflect that.

Criminal records, serious illness, and big financial problems correlate with poverty and working-poor realities in most countries. Meanwhile, attributes such as language fluency, solid work history, and in-demand professional or trade credentials that would make an American an eligible or attractive immigrant to Canada also make that person highly employable in the USA and able to enjoy a fairly comfortable lifestyle that, while it does have tradeoffs, is as least as nice overall as what they can get anywhere else on the planet, and better than most. Why would they want to leave such a good thing?

Visualize a Venn diagram with two circles that don't overlap. One circle contains the kind of American who can breeze through the Canadian immigration process. The other circle contains the kind of American who really would be far better off living in that country.

stoaX

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 522
  • Location: SoCal
  • 'tis nothing good nor bad but thinking makes it so
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #130 on: August 17, 2016, 03:27:26 PM »
If I had health issues and lived in the US on 32k unearned income I'd be looking at relocating to somewhere with a decent social healthcare provision. 

If you were a US citizen with health issues, how easy would it be to re-locate somewhere with social healthcare?   I always thought you had to have a job in the new country and be able to meet residency requirements and/or jump through other hoops.  And that's why before the affordable care act in the United States you didn't see mass migrations of uninsured Americans going to Canada or elsewhere...

You're right: you'd find it difficult. There are reasons there hasn't been a mass US migration.

It's hard to get by in Canada and find employment without proof of legal residency. A person with the right family connections can sometimes find "under the table" employment if they have significant family connections, but depending on what province it is, many social programs aren't going to be available if a person doesn't have the legal right to be there.

To immigrate legally there's an evaluation process that considers age (number of financially productive years), profession, language skills, and a bunch of other stuff. If you've got skills the region needs you go to the head of the line and there's a 6-month turnaround for permanent residency papers using the "express" process that came out last year. Otherwise I hear people have to wait a while. A person who waits until their old and sick and then tries to immigrate is less likely to get the express option.

There's an independent medical exam: people with serious health conditions aren't allowed to stay. There's also a criminal background check and a financial background check. It's pretty exhaustive. To get a police certificate from, say, the United States you do have to send in your fingerprints and get a FBI database check. (Yes, immigrants to Canada are indeed fingerprinted. Nobody seems to find it scandalous.)

Anyone with a criminal record (including impaired driving or a drug record), or who's committed a crime that would justify a 10-year sentence in Canada is ineligible (even if they didn't get caught or convicted). Same goes for someone with a serious financial problem, or who's married to or supporting someone with any of those situations. That simply rules out most of the working poor or people who grow up in generational poverty. Something like 65 to 70 million US citizens (roughly a fourth of the population) has a criminal record of some kind, and that's roughly a quarter of the population. By contrast, Canada's population is a little over 35 million.

In general-- and this is everywhere on our planet-- when a less populous nation lives next door to a big, populous one that contains two adult criminals for every man, woman, and child in the little nation, the little nation is going to have some cultural paranoia about barbarian invaders. Canada's immigration laws do reflect that.

Criminal records, serious illness, and big financial problems correlate with poverty and working-poor realities in most countries. Meanwhile, attributes such as language fluency, solid work history, and in-demand professional or trade credentials that would make an American an eligible or attractive immigrant to Canada also make that person highly employable in the USA and able to enjoy a fairly comfortable lifestyle that, while it does have tradeoffs, is as least as nice overall as what they can get anywhere else on the planet, and better than most. Why would they want to leave such a good thing?

Visualize a Venn diagram with two circles that don't overlap. One circle contains the kind of American who can breeze through the Canadian immigration process. The other circle contains the kind of American who really would be far better off living in that country.

Wow!  Thanks for the education TGS!  Of course, the original comment was by Playing with Fire UK whose name implies that they are in a place with a decent social healthcare provision or could go there if they weren't.   Finally, in the United States, if you are in a state with Medicaid expansion there is a "decent social healthcare provision".

Playing with Fire UK

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2630
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #131 on: August 18, 2016, 03:19:02 AM »
Yes, I'm a UK citizen.

I wasn't trying to suggest that it was easy to move state or country, just that it would be worth looking into if you knew of a condition that would likely result in high healthcare cost over a lifetime, especially if you could lay the groundwork while younger (working or studying abroad, meeting people and putting down roots/buying property/forming relationships etc).

The exclusion for serious medical conditions would be an issue for Canada, but not all countries have this limitation.

Of note, there is a specific channel for indefinite leave to remain in the UK for people of independent means which is tested against an annual unearned income of 25k (currently USD 32.9k , but wait five minutes for the pound to fall a bit more and you'll be fine on $32k!). There are other criteria, but this is not an impossible option.

BTDretire

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2728
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #132 on: August 18, 2016, 08:33:06 AM »

If you were a US citizen with health issues, how easy would it be to re-locate somewhere with social healthcare?   I always thought you had to have a job in the new country and be able to meet residency requirements and/or jump through other hoops.  And that's why before the affordable care act in the United States you didn't see mass migrations of uninsured Americans going to Canada or elsewhere...

You're right: you'd find it difficult. There are reasons there hasn't been a mass US migration.

It's hard to get by in Canada and find employment without proof of legal residency. A person with the right family connections can sometimes find "under the table" employment if they have significant family connections, but depending on what province it is, many social programs aren't going to be available if a person doesn't have the legal right to be there.

To immigrate legally there's an evaluation process that considers age (number of financially productive years), profession, language skills, and a bunch of other stuff. If you've got skills the region needs you go to the head of the line and there's a 6-month turnaround for permanent residency papers using the "express" process that came out last year. Otherwise I hear people have to wait a while. A person who waits until their old and sick and then tries to immigrate is less likely to get the express option.

There's an independent medical exam: people with serious health conditions aren't allowed to stay. There's also a criminal background check and a financial background check. It's pretty exhaustive. To get a police certificate from, say, the United States you do have to send in your fingerprints and get a FBI database check. (Yes, immigrants to Canada are indeed fingerprinted. Nobody seems to find it scandalous.)

Anyone with a criminal record (including impaired driving or a drug record), or who's committed a crime that would justify a 10-year sentence in Canada is ineligible (even if they didn't get caught or convicted). Same goes for someone with a serious financial problem, or who's married to or supporting someone with any of those situations. That simply rules out most of the working poor or people who grow up in generational poverty. Something like 65 to 70 million US citizens (roughly a fourth of the population) has a criminal record of some kind, and that's roughly a quarter of the population. By contrast, Canada's population is a little over 35 million.

In general-- and this is everywhere on our planet-- when a less populous nation lives next door to a big, populous one that contains two adult criminals for every man, woman, and child in the little nation, the little nation is going to have some cultural paranoia about barbarian invaders. Canada's immigration laws do reflect that.

Criminal records, serious illness, and big financial problems correlate with poverty and working-poor realities in most countries. Meanwhile, attributes such as language fluency, solid work history, and in-demand professional or trade credentials that would make an American an eligible or attractive immigrant to Canada also make that person highly employable in the USA and able to enjoy a fairly comfortable lifestyle that, while it does have tradeoffs, is as least as nice overall as what they can get anywhere else on the planet, and better than most. Why would they want to leave such a good thing?

Visualize a Venn diagram with two circles that don't overlap. One circle contains the kind of American who can breeze through the Canadian immigration process. The other circle contains the kind of American who really would be far better off living in that country.
[/quote]

 Gee, if you suggest any of those restrictions in the US, you would be called racist.
You are called racist to even suggest a photo ID to vote. Argh!

UnleashHell

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6730
  • Age: 52
  • Location: Florida
  • Chapter IV - A New ... er.. something
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #133 on: August 18, 2016, 09:59:54 AM »

Of note, there is a specific channel for indefinite leave to remain in the UK for people of independent means which is tested against an annual unearned income of 25k (currently USD 32.9k , but wait five minutes for the pound to fall a bit more and you'll be fine on $32k!). There are other criteria, but this is not an impossible option.

being a dual uk/usa citizen is handy. this exchange rate carries on and i might be able to afford a studio in Eastbourne.... for the 4 of us.
awesome!!

stoaX

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 522
  • Location: SoCal
  • 'tis nothing good nor bad but thinking makes it so
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #134 on: August 18, 2016, 01:16:49 PM »
Yes, I'm a UK citizen.

I wasn't trying to suggest that it was easy to move state or country, just that it would be worth looking into if you knew of a condition that would likely result in high healthcare cost over a lifetime, especially if you could lay the groundwork while younger (working or studying abroad, meeting people and putting down roots/buying property/forming relationships etc).

The exclusion for serious medical conditions would be an issue for Canada, but not all countries have this limitation.

Of note, there is a specific channel for indefinite leave to remain in the UK for people of independent means which is tested against an annual unearned income of 25k (currently USD 32.9k , but wait five minutes for the pound to fall a bit more and you'll be fine on $32k!). There are other criteria, but this is not an impossible option.

Agreed - that's the kind of creative thinking that this whole blog and forum encourages.  And how funny is it that the unearned income threshold you mentioned is so dang close to the $32k in the title of this thread.

TheMoneyWizard

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Age: 29
  • Location: Minneapolis, MN
    • My Money Wizard - Demystifying the Magic of Financial Freedom
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #135 on: August 18, 2016, 01:47:27 PM »
I could. I live like an absolute king on about $25K a year right now. I travel at least once a month, often twice. I also eat out entirely too much, and say yes to all social events regardless of cost.

But I drive an old car, rent a modest apartment, and almost never buy "stuff."

I'm unmarried though, so I guess I'm over the $19K per year figure quoted in the article.

FiguringItOut

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 753
  • Location: NYC
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #136 on: August 18, 2016, 03:02:01 PM »
I probably couldn't, but it's too early to say for sure now.

Right now though I spend almost that much in my rent alone, $2,400/month or $28,800/year, so I have no point of reference.

I don't know where I will end up and how expensive that area will be when I finally retire in about 15 years.
I don't know if I will be alone or in the relationship.
So I can't even begin to predict right now how much I will need.
I am aiming at having about $1M in my retirement accounts in 15 years when I am 55, and then switch to seasonal or part time gigs. 

I will have to adjust this as I go along as my future become clearer.


mpg350

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 150
Re: Who in this forum could NOT live on $32,000 in retirement
« Reply #137 on: August 19, 2016, 05:28:53 AM »
With no debt at all it would be close....for my family would need around $39k a year I think that would work.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2016, 05:32:32 AM by mpg350 »