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Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: Shropskr on May 09, 2014, 07:14:31 PM

Title: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Shropskr on May 09, 2014, 07:14:31 PM
My parents have done it AGAIN.  Couldn't sell their diesel pickup so they trade it in on a 2008 Cadilac.  Not like they don't already have another pick up. An rv a semi a tractor a riding lawn mower a house payment.  Etc oh and the great new Cadilac can't even be towed by the RV with out a dolly which they don't own..  STOP just Stop Stop buying shit you don't need get rid of the bills and it'll be easier that's what I want to say.    At least there is no loan so maybe they've learned something


What would you like to tell you parents if you could.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Kaminoge on May 09, 2014, 11:18:35 PM
Arrrrghhhhh that must be hard for you to keep your mouth shut about!

I'm pretty lucky with my parents, maybe I'd say "it's awesome you've modeled such a great way to handle money/finances for me but come on dad, you bought that tracksuit before I was born, even frugality should have some limits!"

(I'm 40 by the way - mum also has several cooking implements (like a pressure cooker) and a sewing machine all from before they were married).
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: GrayGhost on May 09, 2014, 11:22:40 PM
I'd say: your house has over 1,000 feet of space per person. That is a waste.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Mrs.FamilyFinances on May 10, 2014, 03:34:47 PM
Hubby and I have the opposite problem with his parents! They are mustachian and don't even realize. They paid off their home early in life, own everything else outright, go clothes shopping 1 or 2 times PER YEAR, and generally don't spend any money other than taxes, utilities, one vacation and charitable giving at the holidays.

 The sad part is that they don't believe they have enough to retire, because somewhere along the way they were told drilled they would need many many millions to be comfortable in retirement.  Dad works an extremely high stress, highly physical job full time, making 120k a year, but the toll on his health I fear is far greater. He stresses about work all the time, and tends to cope with food, so he is overweight (about 45 lbs) and just generally seems stressed/exhausted. Mom works a low stress, low paying job (36k) but has no intention of quitting.

 From the 3 accounts I know about, they have bare minimum 700k. This does not include the house, credit union checking & savings, mattress money, ect. It makes us sad to see them feel so unready for retirement, when they are more than ready!! The stress alone that dad carries is going to give him a damn heart attack.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: KatieSSS on May 12, 2014, 12:33:47 PM
With one parent it is, "Mom, just because it is on sale, doesn't mean you need to buy it." This is usually in response to 10 items of of the same thing (soap, hair gel, shaving cream, cleaning supplies, towels, cards, wrapping paper...the list goes on).

And with the other parent it is, "Dad, you don''t need to take your car to the car wash several times a week. That is what rain is for."

Another thing I want to say all the time is just "WHY!?" Latest example: My mom said they were going to buy a new grill for their deck. She said they also needed a new dryer because their's is almost dead. I said, "Why would you buy the grill before the dryer?" "I don't know," she said and then changed the subject. Sigh...

Thanks for starting this thread, it could be a very good place for me to vent :)
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: BlueHouse on May 12, 2014, 12:51:28 PM
"I don't have the money to support you after you're done throwing all of yours away."  Actually, I do say that.  I just wish they would hear it.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Wolf_Stache on May 12, 2014, 01:47:02 PM
With one parent it is, "Mom, just because it is on sale, doesn't mean you need to buy it." This is usually in response to 10 items of of the same thing (soap, hair gel, shaving cream, cleaning supplies, towels, cards, wrapping paper...the list goes on).

This is what I want to say to my mom. The other month she stopped at the outlet store for a bakery that makes a very famous brand of cookies and bought THREE CASES of cookies and spent more money shipping a bunch of cookies to us kids all over the country. Not sure what she thought I was going to do with 12 bags of cookies. I brought all but 2 bags to work, and even those 2 bags are still sitting on my counter uneaten.

Then the very next week she was complaining to me about money and how they are going to lose the house. GAAA!

The paragraph above is not an isolated incident, either. one time she came home with a car FULL of, I kid you not, Muffin Tins. I think each of us kids took one or two, but last I knew she still had a giant box of muffin tins in the basement.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: lifejoy on May 12, 2014, 01:53:47 PM
For the future in-laws:

"I know you really value living for today. But you also have to pave the way for the future. You don't know what the future holds... better to be safe than sorry. I don't want your son and I to have to bankroll your golden years."
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: MandyM on May 12, 2014, 02:06:56 PM
"If you have that much money to waste, how about wasting a little bit in my direction?" 

+1 
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: KatieSSS on May 12, 2014, 02:38:00 PM
With one parent it is, "Mom, just because it is on sale, doesn't mean you need to buy it." This is usually in response to 10 items of of the same thing (soap, hair gel, shaving cream, cleaning supplies, towels, cards, wrapping paper...the list goes on).

This is what I want to say to my mom. The other month she stopped at the outlet store for a bakery that makes a very famous brand of cookies and bought THREE CASES of cookies and spent more money shipping a bunch of cookies to us kids all over the country. Not sure what she thought I was going to do with 12 bags of cookies. I brought all but 2 bags to work, and even those 2 bags are still sitting on my counter uneaten.

Then the very next week she was complaining to me about money and how they are going to lose the house. GAAA!

The paragraph above is not an isolated incident, either. one time she came home with a car FULL of, I kid you not, Muffin Tins. I think each of us kids took one or two, but last I knew she still had a giant box of muffin tins in the basement.

Eeek! Your mom sounds way worse than mine! My mom has learned over the years to not send me as much stuff, probably because I live in a small apartment. That does help.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: greenmimama on May 12, 2014, 02:44:05 PM
My parents for the most part are great with money and they did a great job of raising me to be frugal. The one thing they do is so huge of a money waster, they replace their vehicles too often and with nice ones too.

I'm not sure if it is just a thing that they did without for so long so now they want to have that luxury or what, it will be interesting to see what they do now that my mom is retired. Maybe they will keep them for longer.

At least they pay cash for them and they aren't really expensive vehicles.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: The Borgs on May 12, 2014, 03:23:12 PM
I wish I could tell her she'd be happier and find it easier to manage a smaller place than a 3 bed house with a huge garden on her own.

And that if her clothes take up 2 wardrobes in her room, 2 wardrobes in my old room, a large suitcase under the bed, 2 chests of drawers and the entire small bedroom, that she maybe has enough already.

And not to buy so much food that when I visit once a year I'm cleaning out 3 bin sacks full of well expired tins and other goods.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: ArbitraryGuy on May 12, 2014, 03:44:21 PM
Dear Mom & Dad:

IRAs are sacred.  Do not empty your meager IRAs to sod a new lawn on your new $300,000 house!  This behavior should be avoided... especially in your late 50s when you have no other retirement savings.

Much Love,

ArbitraryGuy
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Dr. Doom on May 12, 2014, 05:08:53 PM
To the Moms:   Stop trying to give me crap on <insert_holiday_or_occasion_here>.  I've asked for you to halt this behavior about ten billion times but you persist.  I don't want or need the items, and you clearly can't afford to buy them.  Also, it hurts our relationship because it shows you're not listening to me.   Just.  Stop.



MMMmm, that was some good therapy.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: zataks on May 12, 2014, 07:04:01 PM
To the Moms:   Stop trying to give me crap on <insert_holiday_or_occasion_here>.  I've asked for you to halt this behavior about ten billion times but you persist.  I don't want or need the items, and you clearly can't afford to buy them.  Also, it hurts our relationship because it shows you're not listening to me.   Just.  Stop.

This exactly.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Gin1984 on May 12, 2014, 07:08:28 PM
Stop buying crap I don't want or need and wasting money shipping it here.  Also, it is sweet you want to buy stuff my DD, but I can get clothes for $2 used vs $15 new and that does not even count the bloody shipping. 
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: HappierAtHome on May 12, 2014, 07:14:43 PM
For the future in-laws:

"I know you really value living for today. But you also have to pave the way for the future. You don't know what the future holds... better to be safe than sorry. I don't want your son and I to have to bankroll your golden years."

This +1000000000. Except to my family, not my in-laws.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: BlueHouse on May 13, 2014, 11:15:29 AM
Stop wasting money on Hallmark cards.  Why is there a Mother's Day card for daughters?  I don't even have kids and certainly didn't expect to receive a mother's day card. 
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Hunny156 on May 13, 2014, 11:25:43 AM
To my FIL:  Ordering take out is not more effective than going out to eat.  COOKING is the most cost-effective way of eating!

Also to my FIL: After spending the better part of 20 years on unemployment, you gave up and chose to accept SS at 62.  You have no retirement income, no investments, no assets.  You do nothing all day long except watch TV, and your daily splurge is to get a tea & bagel at the local corner store.  Yet you are broke, and you are trained as an accountant!  Do you not see the problem here?

To my MIL:  Actually no, you really won't die if you can't buy that Villeroy & Boch china set!  Besides, you use name brand paper plates every day, why do you need china at all?

MIL, again: If you can't make ends meet on your current salary, what makes you think that retiring at the end of the year will be a good idea?  Your SSA will be half your current income, your HSN habit will increase b/c you'll be home all day, and you never bothered to save for your future.

Hubby & I decided long ago that we will ensure they don't starve, but that's where we draw the line.  And we will not be giving them cash, we will set up a Peapod account and have generic staples delivered once/mo so the delivery fees will be nominal.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Apples on May 13, 2014, 11:59:20 AM
Fortunately, my parents generally have their act together when it comes to money, and assuming I can buy the family farm from them (which will happen barring some catastrophe like an Act of God or something), they will have millions.  They already have hundreds of thousands (but like to spend).

BUT, my future in-laws in one month and one day:

Please don't book the fancy restaurant and invite everyone you know for my bridal shower w/ your side of the family.  I will be quite happy in your living room.  In fact, I had asked for my "home" bridal shower to be in a house, but my mom doesn't want to have to clean for extended family.  But now that you've booked it, please stop making side comments about "how much money we're spending on this for you" and "can't do x activity b/c the bridal shower takes up all of your money".  You've seen this coming for a year, and it was your choice to host it that way.  This does not mean I should be guilt tripped.

Emergency funds exist for a reason. You should try it.  Don't get new plates, and restain the cabinets, and repaint 3 rooms b/c you're now hosting family Christmas.  And then take out a loan against your 401(k) to help your son pay lawyer fees for an unexpected incident (yes, we paid them back within 3 months).  And then, once paid back over $2,000, not have $350 on hand to pay the small amount the insurance doesn't pay for getting your leaking roof and damaged rooms fixed and call your son lamenting your problems. Now I'm leery of even telling you how much we're paying off in student loans each month, and am considering not telling you when we pay them off in 3 years because you know how much money that is.

Don't call us panicked saying you can't even afford 4 nights in a hotel room for our wedding when the month before you were talking about taking a 2 week vacation on the east coast.  Then decide that the bride, groom, parents, 6 grandparents, 8 person bridal party, and their dates are all invited to the rehearsal dinner that you're paying for.  With what money?  I'm just waiting to be informed the week before that they can't actually buy $25-$30 meals for all of them.  We have already earmarked some funds for this sad outcome.  (Yes, we're not all that mustachian when it comes to big events.  Mostly just in day-to-day, which allows us to throw those big events.)

Please get your act together and live within your means.  Because in 20 years when you're nearly 70 and still working with no hope for retirement, I hope you won't turn to the kids who are trying to get their own kids through college for help.

Ok, that felt good to get off my chest.  I think some wedding-planning anxiety and frustrations might have come into play on this one... :p
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: jimmymango on May 13, 2014, 02:02:46 PM
Excellent thread...

MIL: You've been throwing parties for 30+ years. You always end up throwing food out and have never come close to running out of anything. STOP BUYING SO MUCH DAMN FOOD JUST IN CASE! (daughter's first birthday party was this past weekend...the amount of waste was ungodly...made my soul hurt)

Parents: Please let this car be mom's final lease.

Parents: Did you have to spend mom's entire inheritance on a brand new truck? Couldn't you at least go used?

FIL: This is going to be very hard to hear, but your prime earning years are over. You did very well for yourself during your career, but you're a 63-year-old salesman in a rough economy. Bask in the sense of accomplishment of a successful 30-40 year career...and then throw yourself wholeheartedly into this new phase. It will be hard, but you have to swallow your pride and accept whatever job comes your way, even if you feel it's beneath you. Your wife has a chronic medical condition and these cobra payments are killing you. Go on the exchanges and purchase cheaper insurance or get a job that provides it. You're burning through thousands per year unnecessarily. You only have to make it another year and a half until you qualify for Medicare. The last four years should have been an opportunity to carve out a niche for yourself that you could own until the day you die (FIL loves to work and would gladly do so until the very end)...I wish you wouldn't have sat around so much waiting for something to come to you or refusing to "settle" for things beneath you by focusing on the high paying job you lost several years ago. For years you had that part time job as a lead inspector and said you'd love to have the business, but did you make it abundantly clear, repeatedly, to the owner that he should turn to you first if he ever chose to sell? Or did you just think he'd never sell, like you told me so many times? I truly hope this latest gig works out for you, but I think you could have been happier if you had tried to make your way sooner. Retirement doesn't suit you, as I've seen since the recession hit...so don't just let it happen to you.

MIL: We have grocery stores here! Stop carting vegetables across four states!
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: ketchup on May 13, 2014, 02:50:42 PM
My dad's got his shit together.  Reasonable apartment, 1994 Buick that he fixes himself, lives a mile from work, no obvious wastefulness like going out to eat all the time or buying dumb crap.  He likes to spend money on photography equipment, but he's spent maybe three grand on that in the past 10 years.  He buys everything used.  His current laptop (a really nice Thinkpad) was $150 on craigslist.

My mom definitely has no trouble taking care of herself financially, but she just has "more".  She drives an 03, but she thinks it's old and crappy and probably will buy a very-close-to-new car she doesn't need.  And she lives in a 2600 square foot house with just her, my 17 year old sister, and a dachshund/beagle mix.  But that house used to have a family of four before I moved out and before my parents' divorce.  Hopefully she gets logical about that after my sister graduates high school.  I can't imagine living in a 2600 square foot four bedroom house by oneself.

My parents are both optometrists making good money (and probably about the same amount of money, although context clues indicate my dad makes a little more, but I'm uncertain).  I think they'll both be fine.  My mom will make my eyes roll with some of her lifestyle choices, but I don't have reason to believe I'll be expected to solve any problems of hers down the road.  I know her father has at least mid-six-figures in Vanguard, plus a paid-off house, and a generous pension from Caterpillar (retired in 1985), along with SS, so I'm pretty sure plenty of those values trickled down.

My GF's dad seems sensible, although I don't know much about him.  He likes his new cars though.  Her mom is a disaster, but she's so good at gaming the system that she'll always be a leech on society, hopefully not us.  She can't ever know we have any money.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: fantabulous on May 13, 2014, 05:19:35 PM
My parents weren't great with money, and arent/weren't high earners, but aren't financial trainwrecks. Talking to them recently about retirement, they should have enough from SS/Pensions to live modestly and aren't the kind of people that will feel deprived by this. Retirement savings are less than 6 figures, but they apparently don't even need to touch this for normal living expenses in retirement if the SS/Pension numbers are correct. What happens if one of them gets so unhealthy that they need assisted care is questionable, though.

My mother is quite a packrat, and at least once I've said something to the effect of "I'm really going to enjoy the 82 large plastic tubs full of crap I'll inherit".
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: hybrid on May 14, 2014, 09:52:53 AM
Dear fairly Mustachian Mom,

Please stop worrying about leaving me and my brother an inheritance. We don't need it, and you do. You only have so many years left, stop trying to leave us a financial legacy. I don't mean to beat you over the head with this, but both of us are in better financial shape than you are. Anything extra would be icing on our cake. Oh, and please please please invest your 401K a little more aggressively, you've just missed one of the best bull markets over the past five years.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: GrayGhost on May 14, 2014, 03:12:37 PM
IRAs are sacred.  Do not empty your meager IRAs to sod a new lawn on your new $300,000 house!

D:

Here's one for me:

You have been responsible, hard-working, and disciplined for many years. There's no need to burn thousands to help our jerk relatives fund their inflated lifestyles.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: mindaugas on May 14, 2014, 03:46:34 PM
My mom lives in my basement and survives off less than $10k annual that she earns from freelance work and selling some crafts on ebay. The only thing I have told her is to get rid of the silly miata she has and put that car payment into a retirement account. One day she won't be able to knit things or her other freelance work. I guess her social security would kick in tho. Other than the car she's very frugal, buys her clothes at thrift stores with us, eats cheap n healthy. She's basically retired without retirement money. I don't mind letting her stay in the basement and neither does my wife, she cleans our place and babysits in return.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Cassie on May 14, 2014, 03:59:19 PM
My parents were of the WW II generation so were great with money & set good examples on how to live!! I miss them both dearly but am grateful for the lessons they taught us.  We will definitely not be a burden to our kids.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Apocalyptica602 on May 15, 2014, 06:58:23 AM
"I'm smarter than you about money, just because you raised me does not mean you're unable to take advice from your son."
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Winston on May 15, 2014, 07:07:05 AM
The only thing I have told her is to get rid of the silly miata she has and put that car payment into a retirement account.

No kidding! I love Miatas, but they stopped making the good ones in 2005. If she loves it so much, see if you can convince her to "downgrade" (really an upgrade) to a cheaper, older Miata that she can pay for with cash. They are pretty Mustachian cars when you don't need to haul around more than one other person. Great gas mileage, excellent reliability, and parts cheap and plentiful (especially used, since Mazda made so many of them). Easy to DIY repairs, too, although I doubt she'll be doing that :)
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: mindaugas on May 15, 2014, 09:01:58 AM
The only thing I have told her is to get rid of the silly miata she has and put that car payment into a retirement account.

No kidding! I love Miatas, but they stopped making the good ones in 2005. If she loves it so much, see if you can convince her to "downgrade" (really an upgrade) to a cheaper, older Miata that she can pay for with cash. They are pretty Mustachian cars when you don't need to haul around more than one other person. Great gas mileage, excellent reliability, and parts cheap and plentiful (especially used, since Mazda made so many of them). Easy to DIY repairs, too, although I doubt she'll be doing that :)

I secretly like them too, although I think the newer ones have more pep. I know you can get a lot more power out of the older models tho.
If she had cash to buy one and wasn't upside down that'd be a great idea. Unfortunately I think the payment will catch up with her and it will get repo'd. There's been a couple late payments already. To be honest she doesn't really need a car, she can borrow ours when she needs to go somewhere.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: KatieSSS on May 15, 2014, 09:38:17 AM
I thought of another one. "Never, ever, ever, EVER again put my name on one of your credit cards without asking me. I don't care if you wanted to do it to establish my credit history. I can do that on my own. K, thanks."
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Fonzico on May 15, 2014, 09:46:50 AM
"I'm smarter than you about money, just because you raised me does not mean you're unable to take advice from your son."

This. This, a thousand times over. Mostly on behalf of my husband though - he's the "baby" of the family, and neither his parents nor his siblings will take him seriously even though we are the only ones in his family who have their shit together. I know it makes him anxious that someday they are all going to be coming to him for help, because they wouldn't accept any right now. :/
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: frugalecon on May 15, 2014, 10:23:56 AM
"I'm smarter than you about money, just because you raised me does not mean you're unable to take advice from your son."

This. This, a thousand times over. Mostly on behalf of my husband though - he's the "baby" of the family, and neither his parents nor his siblings will take him seriously even though we are the only ones in his family who have their shit together. I know it makes him anxious that someday they are all going to be coming to him for help, because they wouldn't accept any right now. :/

They probably don't ask for advice because they know they would not like it. I assume that is why no one in my family asks me for advice, even though I have a PhD in economics and have an obviously well-organized personal financial life.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: merula on May 15, 2014, 07:17:45 PM
To my mom:
"Mom, just because it is on sale, doesn't mean you need to buy it."

This. With the addition of "I'm just going to give it to the food shelf".

To my dad:
"You've done very well for yourself. Stop insisting you're middle class. And also, you didn't get there in a vacuum, so you can stop with the bootstrap bullshit."

To my in-laws:
"STOP BUYING MY KIDS EXPENSIVE PLASTIC CRAP EVERY WEEK. You can't afford it, it's usually completely inappropriate for their ages, and I'm not going to hold onto clutter for 3-5 years for them to grow into it."

In case the last one sounds ungrateful, we have been clear with both sets of grandparents that we don't have space in our place for a surplus of stuff, and the best thing they can do is give the kids their time with visits and outings. And the in-laws ignored us.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: homehandymum on May 16, 2014, 12:18:20 AM
My Dad is 83.  Just last week I said to him "Dad, whatever you want to do is just fine with me."

It's his money, and he's entitled to spend it any damn way he wants.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: garg33 on May 16, 2014, 06:23:45 PM
They probably don't ask for advice because they know they would not like it. I assume that is why no one in my family asks me for advice, even though I have a PhD in economics and have an obviously well-organized personal financial life.

I am sorry to have to tell you this, but I don't think a PhD in economics is a credential that speaks in favor of your financial acumen. ;)
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Bikes in a dress on May 16, 2014, 11:37:12 PM
Mom: Please invest your inheritance. Do you really need to drive around a truck and a trailer to have fun on the weekends? And no, you are not "environmentally low-impact" because you "only" had 2 kids, like everyone else, and drove them around in a Ford Explorer when they were kids. Please stop saying that. Also, stop buying Dad mochas.

Dad: No, you don't get a mocha. You do not get a "treat." You can't work, why do you need caffeine? Every time you get to go somewhere is not a special occasion to spend lots of money at a restaurant, either.

MIL: Please don't buy me anything for Christmas/birthdays/whatever ever again, since I make 3x what you do and you are underwater on at least one house. Stop smoking. Just fix up your "investment property" that is now your weekend escape that you are hundreds of thousands of dollars underwater on, you're only going to lose more doing a teardown and rebuild. And really, get some counseling to help you deal with your anxiety and take control of your life.

*Actually, with my parents we have a "deal." I don't complain to them about how they spend money, they don't get to complain about my "risky" climbing. The MIL just drives everyone crazy, but at least she's on the other coast.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: nikki on May 16, 2014, 11:54:40 PM
To my loving grandparents: Stop buying crap. Papa has already retired from a job once; he could retire again if you stopped going out to eat every day and stopped doing stupid, wasteful things like using only high-quality paper plates. You have two sets of dishes--how about using those?

To my mother: You know you've screwed it all up several times, but there's still a chance to give my sister some good advice. The advice you gave her about saving is not good advice. Remember? When you told her she should save 1% of her income for retirement? $150 a year? If you aren't prepared to give good advice, don't give any at all. Also: you really do need to get rid of your cars; you can't afford them. You make 4-5x as much as I do, yet I'm terrified that you'll come to me for money some day. The answer will always be "no."
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: frugalecon on May 17, 2014, 04:50:20 AM
They probably don't ask for advice because they know they would not like it. I assume that is why no one in my family asks me for advice, even though I have a PhD in economics and have an obviously well-organized personal financial life.

I am sorry to have to tell you this, but I don't think a PhD in economics is a credential that speaks in favor of your financial acumen. ;)

I am curious what the basis is for this comment. Is it based on actually knowing any people with economics PhDs?
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: surfhb on May 17, 2014, 09:10:18 AM
Mom and Dad:   When Granny died 18 years ago she left you 2 paid off homes in Southern California.    Could you tell me why you have no retirement savings?   

Also, why did Dad sell his shares in BOTH crashes in 2001 and 2007.   Isn't that why you paid Tom all those fees through the years?   For good advice?    I'm sorry you're living on SS.   sniff sniff.  :)
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Suit on May 17, 2014, 10:13:36 AM
To the Moms:   Stop trying to give me crap on <insert_holiday_or_occasion_here>.  I've asked for you to halt this behavior about ten billion times but you persist.  I don't want or need the items, and you clearly can't afford to buy them.  Also, it hurts our relationship because it shows you're not listening to me.   Just.  Stop.

This exactly.

This is so my mom too!
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: RetiredAt63 on May 17, 2014, 03:02:26 PM
My daughter gets it - no card or flowers for Mother's day, instead I got a good phone call, and she is coming this weekend (with big strong boyfriend in tow) to do outside chores that need extra hands.  I don't want her to have these "in-her-head" talks with me, I want to be a good example for her  ;-)

To the Moms:   Stop trying to give me crap on <insert_holiday_or_occasion_here>.  I've asked for you to halt this behavior about ten billion times but you persist.  I don't want or need the items, and you clearly can't afford to buy them.  Also, it hurts our relationship because it shows you're not listening to me.   Just.  Stop.

This exactly.

This is so my mom too!
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: garg33 on May 17, 2014, 07:44:54 PM
They probably don't ask for advice because they know they would not like it. I assume that is why no one in my family asks me for advice, even though I have a PhD in economics and have an obviously well-organized personal financial life.

I am sorry to have to tell you this, but I don't think a PhD in economics is a credential that speaks in favor of your financial acumen. ;)

I am curious what the basis is for this comment. Is it based on actually knowing any people with economics PhDs?

From a purely financial perspective, I'm pretty sure the opportunity cost of a PhD outweighs any future financial benefit in almost all cases. Of course there are many great non-financial reasons to get a PhD, but again, then it remains the opposite of a financial credential.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Rural on May 17, 2014, 09:29:50 PM
They probably don't ask for advice because they know they would not like it. I assume that is why no one in my family asks me for advice, even though I have a PhD in economics and have an obviously well-organized personal financial life.

I am sorry to have to tell you this, but I don't think a PhD in economics is a credential that speaks in favor of your financial acumen. ;)

I am curious what the basis is for this comment. Is it based on actually knowing any people with economics PhDs?

From a purely financial perspective, I'm pretty sure the opportunity cost of a PhD outweighs any future financial benefit in almost all cases. Of course there are many great non-financial reasons to get a PhD, but again, then it remains the opposite of a financial credential.


Done properly, a PhD is free. I stupidly paid for some lifestyle inflation when I was in grad school, but the degree itself? I got paid a pitiful pittance to get that. Any school that won't pay you to go to grad school is not a school  you want to be a graduate student at.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: prefrontalfinance on May 17, 2014, 09:46:35 PM

From a purely financial perspective, I'm pretty sure the opportunity cost of a PhD outweighs any future financial benefit in almost all cases. Of course there are many great non-financial reasons to get a PhD, but again, then it remains the opposite of a financial credential.

Done properly, a PhD is free. I stupidly paid for some lifestyle inflation when I was in grad school, but the degree itself? I got paid a pitiful pittance to get that. Any school that won't pay you to go to grad school is not a school  you want to be a graduate student at.

Well, he specifically mentions the opportunity cost. Even if you get paid a stipend, the opportunity cost is that you could be making more money working an actual job elsewhere. Eg, instead of making 24k a year for 5 years (no raises, no inflation or cost of living adjustments), you could make 30k in years 1-2, then 35k years 3-4, then switch to a 45k job in year five. The difference in wages would be the opportunity cost (in purely financial terms). There are opportunity costs of *not* getting the PhD as well, though they may not be financial. For example, you can't become a principle investigator or tenured professor at a 4 year school in most disciplines without a PhD, so that career path would be closed off.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: franklin w. dixon on May 17, 2014, 10:27:48 PM
My main man and #1 dad Jimbo is really, really hilarious in an Antimustachian and yet more-or-less innocuous way. Back in "the day" of my youth he was a real skinflint regarding everyone except for, ah, himself. He always dumped tons of money into his retirement account and was all about Property Values!! and would flip his god damn shit about people letting out the air conditioning or looking in the refrigerator for too long and yet mysteriously managed to buy himself a new K2500 long bed xcab and a boat to pull around with it hm hm. how odd! Anyway due in no small part to his shall we say rather selfish habits of spending eventually my parents got divorced and ole Jimbo meandered away with his half of the loot (800k retirement account) in tow. Having learned his lesson he got remarried and now spends profligately on fucking everything. He and his wife both have good jobs at the same company and my guess is they make around 250-300k/year combined?? So they're still piling up money for no real reason and also just throwing cash at the dumbest possible stuff, like, they keep getting leases on Acuras because #yolo and he bought a $5000 dollar lawn mower and my god, the guns, dude just fuckin, loves guns. He's got like 40 guns a bunch of which are crazy Caesar Guerini shotguns that cost like ten grand. Just heaps of ten thousand dollar shotguns all tucked away in the closet. Why not. And he stocks up on improbable and cartoonish tools like you know, redundant pressure washers, an extra air compressor in case the first air compressor gets the flu, some pistol reloading equipment because you know only a fool would buy fresh bullets every time. All these reloaders pay for themselves! And he's hilarious for stuff like, ok, my youngest brother just graduated from college so these days are over now, but back when we were in school he'd be all hey, why don't you come around! I can show you the new flatscreens I installed in the basement! Oh? Tuition? Sorry son. I'm flat broke. Also happy birthday *hands u 3 crisp 100 dollar bills*. It's not like he's putting himself in any particular financial strain because in a sensible world he could've retired a decade ago but it's just like, God Bless You Jimbo, the engine of our nation's economy.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: franklin w. dixon on May 17, 2014, 10:30:58 PM
Jimbo keeps telling me about how he's having a reckon on how he needs to replace that crummy old truck, the 1994 k2500 with an entire fifty-eight thousand miles that he still has hanging around in the garage. But he and his wife always have new cars from the leases so he almost literally never drives the truck. Once in a while he'll go to Home Depot to pick up a NEW PRESSURE WASHER or whatever dumb thing but that's it. And so every time he tells me that I'm like hmm and how much did you drive the truck last year? And he says: oh, maybe 500 miles. And I rejoin: Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I literally drove a quarter of all the miles on the stupid truck in high school, when I used it for a lawn mowing business. Consarnit Jimbo!!
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: franklin w. dixon on May 17, 2014, 10:44:26 PM
Jimbo keeps buying gadgets without even a faint idea of how to use them, like he bought an ipad off of a guy at work for the can't-miss-it price of 300 dollars (thrift!!) but my brother asked him what he uses it for and he was like "Well sometimes I watch netflix!" But he doesn't have a netflix account. the ipad just automatically signs in to the account of the guy he bought it from. He doesn't understand that netflix is a paid service. He bought a camera for 2000 dollars but never uses it because he just takes pictures with his decrepit Blackberry that he got from work, which I know because he constantly takes pictures of stuff from his garden and sends them to me, in the form of a single email per photograph. What's this? Forty emails from dad?? Oh it's just pictures of forty tomatoes he harvested from his garden, of which he will eat 2, and then take the other 38 to work to see if anyone wants tomatoes, and finding that no one does, throw in the trash. Livin the dream.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: franklin w. dixon on May 17, 2014, 10:45:37 PM
It must be cool to have so much money that you're like "Gosh My Wallet Is Givin Me Back Pain! All This Money!! Oh here's a dumpster" *empties the heap of 100s into the trash*
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: franklin w. dixon on May 17, 2014, 11:01:04 PM
My mom is funny too although not QUITE as funny as Jimbo because her half of the loot included the crazy 3600 square foot house that we lived in as children, which was big back when there were 5 of us there, but now it's just her and precisely one (1) cat, so she's go this crazy Miss Havisham thing going on where she sleeps in various rooms throughout the house depending on her whim, and keeps saying she's gonna get rid of the crummy old furniture in most of the rooms, but then realizes that so doing would leave like 3/4 of the house empty, so she just keeps it, and has a cleaning service come every couple of weeks to do almost literally nothing besides dust all the stupid unused rooms. Sometimes she'll have the upstairs and downstairs thermostats working in opposite directions because she likes her "hanging out" temperature to be different from her "sleeping" temperature. Like Jimbo she's completely fine financially because the house is paid off and she tools around in a shabby dilapidated Saturn Vue and so even when you stack up her comical energy bills and dumbass commute and Literally Never Cooking plus occasionally paying for entire family vacations she still only spends like 50k/year, against a job that pays like 140k. Her boss has actually expressed anxiety that one day she'll just be like Well Peace because there's not any real reason for her to keep working. But she does. Because ??? well who knows why. God Bless.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: frugalecon on May 18, 2014, 05:03:43 AM
They probably don't ask for advice because they know they would not like it. I assume that is why no one in my family asks me for advice, even though I have a PhD in economics and have an obviously well-organized personal financial life.

I am sorry to have to tell you this, but I don't think a PhD in economics is a credential that speaks in favor of your financial acumen. ;)

I am curious what the basis is for this comment. Is it based on actually knowing any people with economics PhDs?

From a purely financial perspective, I'm pretty sure the opportunity cost of a PhD outweighs any future financial benefit in almost all cases. Of course there are many great non-financial reasons to get a PhD, but again, then it remains the opposite of a financial credential.

Ah, I see where you are coming from. It is certainly true that there is an opportunity cost to attending a graduate program, but there are numerous lucrative opportunities that an economics PhD opens up. Plus there is the nonpecuniary benefit of doing work that one enjoys. Many academics in particular basically view their work as their principal hobby, and they have no desire to retire. Now with the trend away from hiring full-time faculty, that is a little dicier.

Your comment probably applies more to programs in the humanities and softer social sciences. There are really a lot of very lucrative jobs in other fields, such as economics.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Emilyngh on May 18, 2014, 06:20:18 AM
They probably don't ask for advice because they know they would not like it. I assume that is why no one in my family asks me for advice, even though I have a PhD in economics and have an obviously well-organized personal financial life.

I am sorry to have to tell you this, but I don't think a PhD in economics is a credential that speaks in favor of your financial acumen. ;)

I am curious what the basis is for this comment. Is it based on actually knowing any people with economics PhDs?

From a purely financial perspective, I'm pretty sure the opportunity cost of a PhD outweighs any future financial benefit in almost all cases. Of course there are many great non-financial reasons to get a PhD, but again, then it remains the opposite of a financial credential.

Ah, I see where you are coming from. It is certainly true that there is an opportunity cost to attending a graduate program, but there are numerous lucrative opportunities that an economics PhD opens up. Plus there is the nonpecuniary benefit of doing work that one enjoys. Many academics in particular basically view their work as their principal hobby, and they have no desire to retire. Now with the trend away from hiring full-time faculty, that is a little dicier.

Your comment probably applies more to programs in the humanities and softer social sciences. There are really a lot of very lucrative jobs in other fields, such as economics.

This is also true for some STEMs.   I have a PhD in electrical engineering.   It took my 3.5 years after my bachelor's to get, I racked up no debt along the way (had tuition and medical covered and a $20k/year stipend), was paid $80k during my postdoc (could've taken an even higher paying job, but this was what I wanted to do), and would never be in the great position I am now without it (just turned 33; semi-retired working PT at my dream job with full autonomy, flexibility, and minimum time commitment; FT SAH spouse; and will easily reach FI in a few years more of semi-retired life).

Seriously, getting my PhD was my ticket to an easy, good life.   It's hands-down one of the best financial decisions I've ever made.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: BlueHouse on May 18, 2014, 09:59:22 AM
crazy Miss Havisham thing going on where she sleeps in various rooms throughout the house depending on her whim, and keeps saying she's gonna get rid of the crummy old furniture in most of the rooms, but then realizes that so doing would leave like 3/4 of the house empty, so she just keeps it, and has a cleaning service come every couple of weeks to do almost literally nothing besides dust all the stupid unused rooms. Sometimes she'll have the upstairs and downstairs thermostats working in opposite directions because she likes her "hanging out" temperature to be different from her "sleeping" temperature.
Oh my.  I've just seen my future.   
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: garg33 on May 18, 2014, 12:29:49 PM
They probably don't ask for advice because they know they would not like it. I assume that is why no one in my family asks me for advice, even though I have a PhD in economics and have an obviously well-organized personal financial life.

I am sorry to have to tell you this, but I don't think a PhD in economics is a credential that speaks in favor of your financial acumen. ;)

I am curious what the basis is for this comment. Is it based on actually knowing any people with economics PhDs?

From a purely financial perspective, I'm pretty sure the opportunity cost of a PhD outweighs any future financial benefit in almost all cases. Of course there are many great non-financial reasons to get a PhD, but again, then it remains the opposite of a financial credential.

Ah, I see where you are coming from. It is certainly true that there is an opportunity cost to attending a graduate program, but there are numerous lucrative opportunities that an economics PhD opens up. Plus there is the nonpecuniary benefit of doing work that one enjoys. Many academics in particular basically view their work as their principal hobby, and they have no desire to retire. Now with the trend away from hiring full-time faculty, that is a little dicier.

Your comment probably applies more to programs in the humanities and softer social sciences. There are really a lot of very lucrative jobs in other fields, such as economics.

This is also true for some STEMs.   I have a PhD in electrical engineering.   It took my 3.5 years after my bachelor's to get, I racked up no debt along the way (had tuition and medical covered and a $20k/year stipend), was paid $80k during my postdoc (could've taken an even higher paying job, but this was what I wanted to do), and would never be in the great position I am now without it (just turned 33; semi-retired working PT at my dream job with full autonomy, flexibility, and minimum time commitment; FT SAH spouse; and will easily reach FI in a few years more of semi-retired life).

Seriously, getting my PhD was my ticket to an easy, good life.   It's hands-down one of the best financial decisions I've ever made.

3.5 years from bachelor's to PhD is quite impressive and by my understanding much faster than average, so really good job on minimizing those opportunity costs. I'm curious, do you really think the great job you have now is something you couldn't have gotten without an equivalent amount of work experience to the degree? I'm all for the "nonpecuniary benefit of doing work that one enjoys"! I wonder how often an advanced degree is actually necessary for this, however, unless the work that you in enjoy is in academia?
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: frugalecon on May 18, 2014, 02:45:56 PM
They probably don't ask for advice because they know they would not like it. I assume that is why no one in my family asks me for advice, even though I have a PhD in economics and have an obviously well-organized personal financial life.

I am sorry to have to tell you this, but I don't think a PhD in economics is a credential that speaks in favor of your financial acumen. ;)

I am curious what the basis is for this comment. Is it based on actually knowing any people with economics PhDs?

From a purely financial perspective, I'm pretty sure the opportunity cost of a PhD outweighs any future financial benefit in almost all cases. Of course there are many great non-financial reasons to get a PhD, but again, then it remains the opposite of a financial credential.

Ah, I see where you are coming from. It is certainly true that there is an opportunity cost to attending a graduate program, but there are numerous lucrative opportunities that an economics PhD opens up. Plus there is the nonpecuniary benefit of doing work that one enjoys. Many academics in particular basically view their work as their principal hobby, and they have no desire to retire. Now with the trend away from hiring full-time faculty, that is a little dicier.

Your comment probably applies more to programs in the humanities and softer social sciences. There are really a lot of very lucrative jobs in other fields, such as economics.

This is also true for some STEMs.   I have a PhD in electrical engineering.   It took my 3.5 years after my bachelor's to get, I racked up no debt along the way (had tuition and medical covered and a $20k/year stipend), was paid $80k during my postdoc (could've taken an even higher paying job, but this was what I wanted to do), and would never be in the great position I am now without it (just turned 33; semi-retired working PT at my dream job with full autonomy, flexibility, and minimum time commitment; FT SAH spouse; and will easily reach FI in a few years more of semi-retired life).

Seriously, getting my PhD was my ticket to an easy, good life.   It's hands-down one of the best financial decisions I've ever made.

3.5 years from bachelor's to PhD is quite impressive and by my understanding much faster than average, so really good job on minimizing those opportunity costs. I'm curious, do you really think the great job you have now is something you couldn't have gotten without an equivalent amount of work experience to the degree? I'm all for the "nonpecuniary benefit of doing work that one enjoys"! I wonder how often an advanced degree is actually necessary for this, however, unless the work that you in enjoy is in academia?

I can only speak to life among the Econ. There are many opportunities available to someone with a PhD that are not available to someone without one. My organization would not even consider someone without a PhD for an economist position. That is because a PhD program teaches qualitatively different skills than a BA program. Top consulting, public policy, and, of course, academic jobs basically require a PhD. You are very sensible to consider the opportunity cost, and I think for many disciplines the grad students are insane, or at least ill-informed. But for quantitative disciplines, the techniques and information learned in grad school are actually useful.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Emilyngh on May 18, 2014, 07:16:54 PM


I'm curious, do you really think the great job you have now is something you couldn't have gotten without an equivalent amount of work experience to the degree? I'm all for the "nonpecuniary benefit of doing work that one enjoys"! I wonder how often an advanced degree is actually necessary for this, however, unless the work that you in enjoy is in academia?

Yes, I'm 100% sure I could not have gotten my great job without my PhD.   The terminal degree is required; they would not have even considered my application without it.    And while, yes, my current work is in academia, my PhD was just as required for my previous post-doc and the specific job I had following it as a research scientist (I would not have been eligible for the research scientist position without the postdoc, actually).   There are jobs where no amount of work experience is considered equivalent to the PhD, and IME, they have the best mix of high pay, autonomy, and flexible hours (at least in my field).   



Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Kaminoge on May 19, 2014, 02:17:36 AM
franklin I'm sure there's potential for some kind of Modern Family style sitcom starring Jimbo and your mum.

The American Dream!
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: FunkyStickman on May 19, 2014, 05:22:46 AM
Only thing I wish I could get my parents to understand: "Stop buying crap for my kids!"
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Strawberrykiwi75 on May 19, 2014, 05:31:05 AM
"I'm smarter than you about money, just because you raised me does not mean you're unable to take advice from your son."

+1

(and daughters)
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Strawberrykiwi75 on May 19, 2014, 05:44:55 AM
Dad, please stop buying crap just because it's cheap. If you give me another piece of Chinese Jade, I'm going to scream- I've told you I don't want it.
Instead, spend it on updating your piece of shit car that breaks down all the time and costs a fortune to run.
Buy a new mattress instead of complaining that your back hurts in the mornings.
Stop complaining that all you do is sit around the house when I know you have enough money to go traveling, go fishing everyday, take up golf.
Stop being such a cheap ass that you don't get to enjoy your money.
Oh, did I mention- fucking RETIRE!!! You're 74 years old and the only thing you use the money for is buying alcohol- alcohol which your doctor has forbidden you to drink!!!
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: erae on May 19, 2014, 07:21:08 AM
dad: you bought the corvette to fulfill some combination of nostalgic 1960's cool and to prove to the world that all those years working so hard and sacrificing so much of your time and energy had somehow paid off.  you didn't understand how the rest of us were ambivalent to your trophy.  then, a couple years later when you tired of it yourself, you sold it during the recession and cringed when you calculated the cost-per-mile.  lesson learned, we all thought. 

until you retired.  as mom warned: "retirement doesn't mean you get a personality transplant; you're the same person, just with more free time."  but you didn't listen to yourself or to your wife.  after decades of turning down invitations to fish with your father and never showing interest in lakes or boating, you moved to an overpriced community on a lake and decided you needed a 30 thousand dollar boat to match the new golf cart and the premium lot you built your new house on - a premium lot that would give you access to the most exclusive golf courses (a topic which you awkwardly work into conversations with guests).  the boat lasted about as long as the corvette and provoked in all of us a profound sense of deja vu.  and your beautiful house in this beautiful community has done little to contribute to your or to mom's happiness.  it took you a couple years to find golfing buddies that aren't scumbags, and mom has yet to connect deeply with any of the women in the area, instead yearning for a lifestyle in which you two can spend the summer up north with your siblings and aging parents.  mom only moved to this middle-of-nowhere dystopia of some sense of gratitude to you for "providing" for your family for so many years and wanting to help you realize your retirement dreams.  but somewhere along the lines your spending stopped aligning with your priorities and started to focus on creating an image.  the image sucks - you're way more badass than this persona you feed, but you don't seem to think so.

when i think about you or talk to my friends about you, i dont talk about your beautiful house or your gated community or your pension - i talk about how much you love mom after 35+ years and what a high bar you've set for my new husband and me; and how i love to see you get so excited, like a little boy, when you talk about classic rock or the latest cocktail you're working on perfecting; or how proud i am of you not being bothered when you were ostracized by two separate social groups for calling people on their racism.  you're a good man.  you're a successful man.  and it has been so painful to watch your insecurities take over as you try and demonstrate your goodness and your success through fancy crap. 

mom: dad's right - there's enough money for summers near the family.  find something furnished near grandma's place and use your money to pursue happiness rather than to provide some false sense of security against your anxieties and fears.  you and your happiness are worth the investment - that's what money is for.




Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Winston on May 19, 2014, 08:31:17 AM
^ Wow. If you can't tell your dad that in person, print that post and mail it to him.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Ironfist on May 19, 2014, 11:57:17 AM
I wish I could tell my Dad to just quit buying crap.  Well, I can tell him but he wouldn't listen.  He always complains about the house being full of junk and being broke all the time but it seems like he's still buying junk all the time.

Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Adventine on May 20, 2014, 01:05:42 AM
^ Wow. If you can't tell your dad that in person, print that post and mail it to him.

Agreed.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Counting Down on May 22, 2014, 05:56:39 AM
franklin I'm sure there's potential for some kind of Modern Family style sitcom starring Jimbo and your mum.

The American Dream!

Seriously Franklin your posts made me laugh so much.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: going2ER on May 22, 2014, 08:57:43 AM
I did get my mother to stop buying my kids crap, she finally caught on to that one.

Now my parents have their paid for home up for sale. They want the money, they will blow through the money, just like their inheritances. Guess what? Reality check, you still need to live somewhere and will likely be paying $800-900 per month in rent. If you don't feel like you can shovel or mow or clean or do whatever around the house anymore it would not cost you $800 a month to hire that out. It is not a large home. I know that they will bitch about the cost of rent, especially once the money from the home is gone, and I give that 6-12 months. Thankfully, my sister is the golden child so I won't get the worst of it.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: frugalnacho on May 22, 2014, 10:20:47 AM
Stop buying me crap.  If it's something I need, or something I really want, and is reasonably priced enough that you could afford it then I already own it.  If I don't then it's because it doesn't fit those criteria and no one should buy it for me.  Just because it's christmas or my birthday doesn't mean you are obligated to waste money on shit I don't want/need.  We will all be better off if you just stop.  Just invite me over for dinner if you want to do something nice - I will appreciate the food and the company, and it won't be a monumental waste of resources.

I have tried to drill this into my parents for the last 10 years.  They don't seem to understand. 
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Gin1984 on May 22, 2014, 10:25:26 AM
Stop buying me crap.  If it's something I need, or something I really want, and is reasonably priced enough that you could afford it then I already own it.  If I don't then it's because it doesn't fit those criteria and no one should buy it for me.  Just because it's christmas or my birthday doesn't mean you are obligated to waste money on shit I don't want/need.  We will all be better off if you just stop.  Just invite me over for dinner if you want to do something nice - I will appreciate the food and the company, and it won't be a monumental waste of resources.

I have tried to drill this into my parents for the last 10 years.  They don't seem to understand.
If you do, please post HOW!  I have been trying for about the same time.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Dr. Doom on May 28, 2014, 07:35:24 AM
Stop buying me crap.  If it's something I need, or something I really want, and is reasonably priced enough that you could afford it then I already own it.  If I don't then it's because it doesn't fit those criteria and no one should buy it for me.  Just because it's christmas or my birthday doesn't mean you are obligated to waste money on shit I don't want/need.  We will all be better off if you just stop.  Just invite me over for dinner if you want to do something nice - I will appreciate the food and the company, and it won't be a monumental waste of resources.

I have tried to drill this into my parents for the last 10 years.  They don't seem to understand.
If you do, please post HOW!  I have been trying for about the same time.

After years of failure, I managed to do it. 

Turns out I was being way, way too nice and rational for way too long.   Simply explaining my position was having zero effect because they weren't listening.   I started yelling at them.  Yes, raising my voice and yelling.  I have to say that this goes against my nature but whatever, got to mix it up when things aren't effective.    I really wanted to fix this problem.

For about a year, here's how it played out.  My mom gives me something, I scream at her and say how could you do this again after I've told you one billion zillion times to stop?  Then I take the item(s) back to her car, place it in the back seat, and say, look, now you're taking that home and figuring out what to do with it.  Have fun with that.

I don't like being mean -- it causes me some amount of guilt and distress to behave this way, especially to my mom, who I am very fond of in general -- but I'll be damned, after several iterations, it worked.  Complete behavioral adjustment.

Some kids, when you tell them to stop being bad, they immediately stop.  Others, you need to shout and count down to punishment.  They need to visibly and audibly register that you're really upset.  I finally figured out which kind of children my parents were.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: homeymomma on May 28, 2014, 01:17:56 PM
Dear Mom,
Just because you hated your job and stuck it out for a little while longer than you wanted doesn't mean you get to f*ck around and do nothing, blowing through your retirement savings, during your last able bodied working years then land on my doorstep when your 75 and ask me to put you up. I hope social security will be enough for you because I don't think it covers online shopping sprees and whole foods.

Love,
Your kid

P.s. You know how grandma lives in this fancy retirement home? She had to plan and save for that, they don't have free housing options for seniors alongside golf courses.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: eyesonthehorizon on May 29, 2014, 02:18:15 AM
Definite text dump. Feel free to skip. I'd skip it myself, but once in a while I find people who need to hear they aren't the only ones.

"I wish I could celebrate with you when I get out from under the soul-crushing student debt I plan to pay off in three months.

I wish you could be proud of me, and be able to share the first time in my life I've felt optimistic about my situation and my own ability to affect it. I wish I could bring over a homemade cake and some cheer to your crumbling and miserable house and we could celebrate the notion that I might just make good, and not have my tentative feelings of hope crushed flat as one of you takes my hard-won personal success as a rebuke to how you didn't do better with the position you know you were handed on a platter, and the other of you sneers that I always had it too easy and I don't know what a challenge is because I haven't cultivated a substance abuse problem.

I wish that I could be honest with you about how encouraging it has been finally being in the black for the first time in my adult life without worrying you'll ask me for another loan from my painstaking savings. I've never refused, and you've never yet failed to pay me back, but the stakes are higher now; I started adulthood a lot later than I planned, and if I'm still taking care of you I may never get to have children of my own.

I wish that both or either of you would do the things that would make your lives better instead of each insisting that since you're in a hole already you can only dig deeper, and that you could take inspiration instead of offense from those who don't believe or behave likewise.

I wish that you would take even little steps like not spending everything you've got on extravagant prepared food as soon as a check comes in, when you're behind on all your maxed-out credit card payments and don't have anything left in the bank to fall back on. I wish I could forget the times I came to visit and watched hollow and salivating and wanted to catch the scraps of good meat you scraped into the dog's dish or the stale heels of artisan bread that went out on the lawn because I'd been eating nothing but oatmeal for weeks on end to save money, and all the times I guiltily turned down food you offered because I couldn't know whether you were actually about to run out of cash again. I worked seven days a week and skipped meals. I wasn't thin to be fashionable, but I worried you were worse off than myself, even then. (I've never been able to tell how much trouble you were in, or where my responsibilities lay or terminated in helping you out of it. I only recognize that it's been wholly self-inflicted.)

Once I could afford real groceries, I wish you'd have let me cook for you instead of going out all the time when you unequivocally can't afford it and when nobody's allowed to enjoy the experience anyway. I haven't had a meal with you in almost a year in any context, because if anyone is happy about anything someone else will do all they can to put a lance through their bubble, and I'm still trying to overcome a whole lifetime of growing up next to that and learn how to feel good about anything.

And I still wish you'd let me cook for you."
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Astatine on May 29, 2014, 05:22:57 AM
^^^ I'm sorry that you've had to experience that. If navigating that level of family dysfunction is impacting you still, you may find the Out of the FOG ( fear obligation guilt) forum helpful. 
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Two9A on May 29, 2014, 06:35:32 AM
Antimustachianism and narcissism tend to go together: at least, in my anecdotal experience of one mother who's always berated my achievements and/or taken credit for them, and is also a profligate spender.

There's also a support group for "adult children of narcissists" on Reddit, which I frequent: if you look for /r/raisedbynarcissists that should point you in the right direction.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: NeverWasACornflakeGirl on May 29, 2014, 09:12:34 AM
I don't know what a challenge is because I haven't cultivated a substance abuse problem.


Wow, that really got me.  Just wanted to say congratulations on all of your accomlishments.  Especially considering your negative background, you really have a lot to be proud of.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: eyesonthehorizon on May 31, 2014, 03:10:15 PM
Astatine, Two9A, I hightailed it to the FOG forum, burned a couple hours saying "THIS" out loud, and didn't get back properly online for a bit there. I was hoping I'd be able to share something that might make somebody else feel left alone, but I didn't expect to be surprised by direction to good resources!! Emphatic thanks!!
Two9A, I suspect you're probably on to something about antimustachian families of origin. Dysfunction is dysfunction.
NeverWasACornflakeGirl - many thanks! Incidentally, congratulations means more from someone with good taste in music. ^-^
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Adventine on June 02, 2014, 02:02:16 AM
Definite text dump. Feel free to skip. I'd skip it myself, but once in a while I find people who need to hear they aren't the only ones.

"I wish I could celebrate with you when I get out from under the soul-crushing student debt I plan to pay off in three months.

I wish you could be proud of me, and be able to share the first time in my life I've felt optimistic about my situation and my own ability to affect it. I wish I could bring over a homemade cake and some cheer to your crumbling and miserable house and we could celebrate the notion that I might just make good, and not have my tentative feelings of hope crushed flat as one of you takes my hard-won personal success as a rebuke to how you didn't do better with the position you know you were handed on a platter, and the other of you sneers that I always had it too easy and I don't know what a challenge is because I haven't cultivated a substance abuse problem.

I wish that I could be honest with you about how encouraging it has been finally being in the black for the first time in my adult life without worrying you'll ask me for another loan from my painstaking savings. I've never refused, and you've never yet failed to pay me back, but the stakes are higher now; I started adulthood a lot later than I planned, and if I'm still taking care of you I may never get to have children of my own.

I wish that both or either of you would do the things that would make your lives better instead of each insisting that since you're in a hole already you can only dig deeper, and that you could take inspiration instead of offense from those who don't believe or behave likewise.

I wish that you would take even little steps like not spending everything you've got on extravagant prepared food as soon as a check comes in, when you're behind on all your maxed-out credit card payments and don't have anything left in the bank to fall back on. I wish I could forget the times I came to visit and watched hollow and salivating and wanted to catch the scraps of good meat you scraped into the dog's dish or the stale heels of artisan bread that went out on the lawn because I'd been eating nothing but oatmeal for weeks on end to save money, and all the times I guiltily turned down food you offered because I couldn't know whether you were actually about to run out of cash again. I worked seven days a week and skipped meals. I wasn't thin to be fashionable, but I worried you were worse off than myself, even then. (I've never been able to tell how much trouble you were in, or where my responsibilities lay or terminated in helping you out of it. I only recognize that it's been wholly self-inflicted.)

Once I could afford real groceries, I wish you'd have let me cook for you instead of going out all the time when you unequivocally can't afford it and when nobody's allowed to enjoy the experience anyway. I haven't had a meal with you in almost a year in any context, because if anyone is happy about anything someone else will do all they can to put a lance through their bubble, and I'm still trying to overcome a whole lifetime of growing up next to that and learn how to feel good about anything.

And I still wish you'd let me cook for you."

I'm happy for you and your achievements. You're building a better life for yourself. Stay strong and keep making those good choices for yourself.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: frugalman on June 02, 2014, 10:17:08 AM
My Mother in Law was widowed about 17 years ago. There was no mortgage on the home at the time. She has also received about $50,000 cash inheritance from her parents. Unfortunately she developed a hoarder habit. She just kept buying stuff and piling it in her home. Then, she became short of money to do this (and after some expensive vacations) so she started taking out loans on her home. $25,000 was the first loan, now she is all in at about $125,000 in 2 mortgages. Her total cash income is $1,400/mo, the mortgages are priced too high, and she has like $300/mo after paying these. Bad credit score now. Her car gave up the ghost a year ago, and she can't afford to get it fixed. My DW has succumbed to driving her around about weekly to the food shelf, bank, grocery store, wherever she needs to go. We had to buy her garbage service because she was piling it in the basement.

I can't figure out a way out of this - do any of you know if the county or state can somehow take her off our hands? I've explained that if she just quits paying on the loans, she might have 2 years before she is evicted. This would allow her to buy $3,000 car to get around, and save up like $10,000 as a war chest for the apartment fund. She refuses to accept that her house is going to go - since DW is driving her around and buying groceries etc.

P.S. the home is such a hoarder home and in such poor shape I don't think it is worth more, as is, than the loans she has on it.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: homeymomma on June 02, 2014, 10:27:55 AM
If the hoarding is at such a point as to be a health/safety hazard, the public authorities may be able to step in. I dont know about anyone who can "take her off your hands" so to speak. She may qualify for a meals on wheels sort of thing, but that's mostly for people who are physically unable to get food for themselves, not those unable to buy a car or unwilling to ride the bus.

Best suggestion? Move. Far far away.

I'd at least call social services and see if they have any ideas for programs she might qualify for. They are usually pretty strapped and won't assign someone to her case unless it sounds truly dire, but they may have some local options to suggest.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: annann on June 02, 2014, 01:04:26 PM
My Mother in Law was widowed about 17 years ago. There was no mortgage on the home at the time. She has also received about $50,000 cash inheritance from her parents. Unfortunately she developed a hoarder habit. She just kept buying stuff and piling it in her home. Then, she became short of money to do this (and after some expensive vacations) so she started taking out loans on her home. $25,000 was the first loan, now she is all in at about $125,000 in 2 mortgages. Her total cash income is $1,400/mo, the mortgages are priced too high, and she has like $300/mo after paying these. Bad credit score now. Her car gave up the ghost a year ago, and she can't afford to get it fixed. My DW has succumbed to driving her around about weekly to the food shelf, bank, grocery store, wherever she needs to go. We had to buy her garbage service because she was piling it in the basement.

I can't figure out a way out of this - do any of you know if the county or state can somehow take her off our hands? I've explained that if she just quits paying on the loans, she might have 2 years before she is evicted. This would allow her to buy $3,000 car to get around, and save up like $10,000 as a war chest for the apartment fund. She refuses to accept that her house is going to go - since DW is driving her around and buying groceries etc.

P.S. the home is such a hoarder home and in such poor shape I don't think it is worth more, as is, than the loans she has on it.

Given her income and her lack of assets, she may be eligible for subsidized housing.  If so, the rent is usually about 1/3 of her monthly income and this often includes some or all of the utilities.  She may also be eligible for food stamps, subsidized transportation, and assistance with medical insurance.  In some areas there are rather long waiting lists for assisted housing so she may need to get on the list ASAP.  I would contact the Elder Care Agency in your local area to find out what assistance she could receive.  As long as you and DW help her make her current situation work, nothing will change until such time as she fails to pay the mortgages and they forclose on her house.  The kindest thing you can do is help her learn what assistance is available and help her apply for it if she is unable to do it alone.  The worst case scenario is that she is evicted in a forclosure and has no place to go except to come and live with you.  You are the one with the incentive to help her get into the welfare system.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: BlueHouse on June 16, 2014, 11:43:10 AM
Stop buying me crap.  If it's something I need, or something I really want, and is reasonably priced enough that you could afford it then I already own it.  If I don't then it's because it doesn't fit those criteria and no one should buy it for me.  Just because it's christmas or my birthday doesn't mean you are obligated to waste money on shit I don't want/need.  We will all be better off if you just stop.  Just invite me over for dinner if you want to do something nice - I will appreciate the food and the company, and it won't be a monumental waste of resources.

I have tried to drill this into my parents for the last 10 years.  They don't seem to understand.
If you do, please post HOW!  I have been trying for about the same time.

After years of failure, I managed to do it. 

Turns out I was being way, way too nice and rational for way too long.   Simply explaining my position was having zero effect because they weren't listening.   I started yelling at them.  Yes, raising my voice and yelling.  I have to say that this goes against my nature but whatever, got to mix it up when things aren't effective.    I really wanted to fix this problem.

For about a year, here's how it played out.  My mom gives me something, I scream at her and say how could you do this again after I've told you one billion zillion times to stop?  Then I take the item(s) back to her car, place it in the back seat, and say, look, now you're taking that home and figuring out what to do with it.  Have fun with that.

I don't like being mean -- it causes me some amount of guilt and distress to behave this way, especially to my mom, who I am very fond of in general -- but I'll be damned, after several iterations, it worked.  Complete behavioral adjustment.

Some kids, when you tell them to stop being bad, they immediately stop.  Others, you need to shout and count down to punishment.  They need to visibly and audibly register that you're really upset.  I finally figured out which kind of children my parents were.

I tried the good Doctor's method for about 7 years and it didn't work out too well for me.  It seemed to just cause me to feel like a heel on family holidays, especially Christmas morning.  No one should yell at their mom on Christmas, or make them feel like jerks for trying. 
Here's what I did that has been working for the past few years:  It turns out my mom just wants to please me.  And all of these years she's been trying to make me smile or laugh or feel grateful by buying things for me.  That just didn't work.  So I finally started making very detailed and very specific lists of things that she could give me as a gift.  I try to make them interesting enough that she doesn't feel as if she's doing my grocery shopping, but I have no qualms about asking for a specific brand of laundry detergent.  Nowadays, I usually make a list of things I would like done, and she comes through by giving me a set of coupons - for things like waiting at my home for deliveries, the plumber, baking a special dessert, etc.  My next one will be to ask her to hold a cooking demonstration for a few of my friends.  It will make her feel as if she has something to teach others, and the rest of us get a pretty decent meal out of it.  I've found that the more I ask of her, the happier she is about it.  She really truly wants to please, and I think a lot of moms are like that but they've just forgotten that money does NOT equal love. 

Be kind whenever possible, offer an alternative to crap gifts, and the message sinks in better.  Good luck
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Carrie on June 16, 2014, 12:11:49 PM
to Dad:
Thanks for being frugal enough to live on your pension & SS.  It's a damn shame you got duped by your ex-girlfriend and gave her your (paid-off) house & land.  That sucks.  If you pick up with her again (and she takes the remainder of the land), I'm afraid we'll write you off completely.

to Mom:
There are a few things I'd love to tell you. Two people don't need a 5 BR, 3000 square foot house.  Please clean it up and sell it.  You are not entitled to SS since you never worked a job and since you remarried (so please quit bringing it up. Insisting the gov owes you something makes you sound socialist, but I know you're not because you get all of your info from Fox news).  That is the way it is, and it's not too late for you to find SOME work to do to help support you and your ill husband.  Your kids feel so emotionally damaged from childhood that it'll be tough to find a soft heart to fund your irrational lifestyle. No couple needs two mac book pros plus two ipads, plus a boat, plus a (new) tent & camping/ survival gear (when's the last time you went camping? 20 years?).  Please stop visiting these shopping websites.  You have zero money to spend, and you're past your "survival days."  Please stop stockpiling food.  No one wants to come eat at your house with all the rotting food in the fridge, the expired cans in the pantry and the bugs and flies in the kitchen.  Spend the time cleaning the place up instead of shopping at the bargain shops for things you don't need.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Apples on September 01, 2014, 09:04:45 AM
Need to vent/

To my MIL, no you can't live your paycheck to paycheck life forever.  You guys couldn't even handle a surprise $350 bill, and you were planning a 2 week vacation for your son's wedding, but called crying because you didn't know if you could afford a hotel room for 4 days just a few weeks before.  No, we're not hosting you the week of our wedding, get your act together.  And now, a few months later, you can't just skip your shift work job whenever you decide to have a migraine (which you have medicine for) or your son is home visiting and you want to spend 2 more hours with him before he leaves, but then you miss an entire 12 hour shift of work.  And then when your husband picks up overtime shifts to make up for it, you going to a restaurant by yourself just to check in on facebook so everyone sees how awesome you are does not help the situation.  Your bought-on-a-whim new Ford Escape from last spring is stretching your budget way too tight, and your previous car was perfectly good.  Please stop calling your son crying every other month because you miss him; we all know you're trying to guilt trip him home, which we visit twice a year and he goes back once by himself.  You are free to visit anytime, and we will host you, but you have to have vacation days to take and the money saved for the gas and restaurant stops.  And now you call crying because your supervisor is threatening to fire you because you've been missing so much work, and you don't have any kind of plan.  What is your son, 600  miles away, supposed to do?  And we're going to visit for Thanksgiving, and do Christmas presents then, and you're going to give us some great gifts while simultaneously making mention of your money problems. Stop spending money every possible way, save some up, and most of your problems would go away.

/vent 
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: pachnik on September 01, 2014, 09:22:25 AM
I just quickly read through the last few posts here and am really grateful for my Mustachian parents who are now in their mid-70's. 

They are very frugal and excellent money managers.  I don't have any concerns about the kind of stuff I am reading about here.  The only slight concern I have is for the future.  For example, if they become less mentally aware and maybe get ripped off.  Hopefully, this will never happen.

Sorry for the thread de-rail.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Squirrel away on September 01, 2014, 09:34:28 AM
I heard that one of my parents is going to make a very expensive decision with her house despite the fact it is worth £600k and it's fully paid for. I gave my advice but I don't know if it will be passed on to her or if she will listen.

To my mother-in-law, stop playing online bingo! It's a mug's game.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: legacyoneup on September 01, 2014, 10:38:02 AM
To Mom : Never let the fox into the hen-house .. i.e. NEVER EVER give dad access to our offshore joint accounts.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: tofuchampion on September 02, 2014, 12:01:55 AM
I have absolutely zero sympathy for you.  You are not a victim of circumstance, you are irresponsible and ignorant.  Your money problems are your own damn fault, and I hope you don't expect me to bail you out or take care of you when you can't, because I won't. 

You are in your late 50's.  You live paycheck to paycheck.  You have no retirement savings, not even an emergency fund.  Then you tell me that the $60K/year you used to get, with no housing costs (pastor, living in a parsonage) wasn't enough to set some aside?  Bullshit.  You had enough money to remodel.  You had enough to go on vacation every year.  You had enough for cable or satellite tv, all the kids (3 still at home) to have laptops or video game systems or SOMETHING, and to eat out multiple times a week. 

So then you move, and you're deciding between a house with $2100/month rent, or one with $1850/month rent... and you go with the more expensive one, because otherwise you'd be paying hundreds every month in storage fees for the boat and some furniture.  WTF.  Sell the boat and the extra furniture, get the smaller place.  Since you didn't, don't act all victim-y and sad and tell me that you don't always know where the rent money is going to come from, because it's your own damn fault.

Just... don't talk about money to me, ever.  I've made my own mistakes, I've learned from them, and I don't want to hear you blame everyone but yourselves for your terrible situation.  Actually, go ahead; it's more motivation for me to become more mustachian and not end up like you. 

OH, and mom, stop calling dad a "financial genius."  He's not, he's an idiot.  How you can't see this is beyond me.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: JetBlast on September 04, 2014, 04:50:58 PM
Mom: 

Thank you for teaching me basic finance and and providing a good example of investing, saving, and being happy without going shopping all the time.  Also, thanks for passing along your patience and ability to just sit quiet and still and be happy.

Dad: 

Stop buying shit. I know you can afford it but just stop. Spending $500 on handlebars and stem for your bicycle won't make you as fast as my brother. He's 28 and you're 62.

Let Mom buy you a birthday present next year. She joked that she never has to buy you anything because you tell her what you want, then buy it for yourself a couple weeks before your birthday. 

DW and I appreciate you selling us your used ladder for our new home, even if we know the real reason you did it was so you could justify spending $250 on a new ladder for yourself.

Stop asking when I'm going to get a new car. My car now only has 95k miles on and can probably last several more years. And please don't criticize me when I replace it with a used car I pay cash for instead of a $40k SUV.  New cars aren't important to me.

Stuff won't make you happy. Stop spending on crap and go travel with mom. She really wants to and you've mentioned it too. You're both retired and travel free thanks to my job. Go see the world. That's a much better use of your money than the $1,000 you're spending on rims for your bike.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: jennigens on February 23, 2015, 12:17:41 PM
I just *need* to get this off my chest.

I love my parents, but they terrify me. We grew up poor. Mom had very poor health and had multiple surgeries before she was even 30. Dad is a teacher - a wonderful one that everyone adores, but he also does way too much work for free because schools don't place value on employee's extra time. Mom eventually taught as well until she retired about four years ago (medical retirement on disability she put in for because of her health problems). I fought and fought for her to keep working, as she was barely 50, but she had missed so much work over the past couple years, she couldn't face it. Dilemma now - she can work but loses disability, which isn't much but enough and steady. If her illness gets worse, then that job becomes much less plausible - and she doesn't have the best work ethic, in part because of being sick all the time.

Growing up, they were the most loving/fun parents. We never had much, but we never felt like we were missing out. My parents were hardly the types to be spendthrifts; there just wasn't enough money to be that way. In fact, I remember walking away from the cash register whenever we bought anything - the stress of spending anything was too much. For years, we rode around in a car someone from church gave us - it was painted five different colors, but it was free.

Now we are all grown and out of the house. I have made financial mistakes but am on the MMM path. I need to make more money to truly be on my way, but putting nearly half your paycheck in savings ain't bad.

But you guys? Dad's health has gotten worse, but he still has to work. If he ends up needing a heart transplant, I have no idea how you will make it. You take on embroidery projects on your home machine and work so hard to make such little money with it. It can't sustain you, but you want so much to contribute to my and sister's wedding fund and proudly told me you had saved $300 for it last week. Neither of us will EVER take that money and want you to put it in savings.

But you are in this position because you got used to being poor and have never left that mindset. You no longer have three kids at home and haven't in ages. I'm 33. Brother is 31. Sis is 28. We've been out roughly 10 years. Yet your financial position isn't better. Your friends all have husbands who worked at high-income, blue collar jobs. You don't, but you hang out with them and feel you must keep up with the joneses, hosting monthly birthday parties and buying gift after gift for these people who don't need anything. You host parties and go all out - even if you feel you aren't spending much. You bring in such little money, and Dad says nothing. You buy here and there because you feel you "deserve" it after living a life of hardship. That isn't how it works. When we go places together, you want to buy me or sis something. We tell you no because you have no money. We aren't trying to be rude, but your insistence at affording things you can't kills all of us. All three of us worry about having to take care of you because you spend mindlessly. Last week you went to lunch twice in a town 20 minutes away. You can't afford that!

And Dad. You aren't paying attention to what you spend daily. Mom told me she gives you several hundred dollars EACH WEEK for gas and such. Where is that money going? You are diabetic and have a heart condition. You should not eat out ever. She makes you lunches. Eat them. Are you gambling? What are you doing with that money? You are such a good man, but I don't trust you on this, and I hate it.

Together you have never communicated well about any of this. If YOU don't know where your money is going, no one will.

When MawMaw died, I gave up months of my life to help get the house in order, to organize the estate sale, to get the bills in order, to itemize what needed to be paid, what you needed to be paid out of bills, etc. Your attorney that you hired to do this (because HE WAS A FRIEND) should have done this last part but did not. You still paid him way too much money, but you felt you needed to help him because he isn't in good health. No! You need to help yourself. You are in horrible financial health. You must come first. That inheritance amounted to about $10,000. Have you invested this? Have you spent this? I don't know. It is a continual source of stress for me.

All I really want is for my parents to, at one point in their lives, not have to worry about money on a daily basis. This weekend, after volunteering at the local food bank, I asked if they wanted to go to Dunkin Donuts, a rare treat. They said they were tight on money and couldn't. I've been so sad ever since. At this point, I don't know that it will ever happen, and it devastates and depresses me.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: infogoon on February 23, 2015, 01:35:10 PM
To my Aunt-in-law: Stop talking shit about the women who use the food pantry in your neighborhood. You're a high school graduate (barely) who was lucky enough to be born during an era when that could get you a job with a pension and gold-plated health care for the rest of your life. If you'd been born thirty years later, you'd be working at Walmart and standing in that same line.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: EfficientN on February 23, 2015, 01:43:13 PM
"You could have stopped working years ago." Given how exhausted my parents are with working, I think they're slowly realizing how much they regret the lack of forethought. They're frankly fine all things considered, but they could already be retired with having only cut the crap that doesn't actually make them happy.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: nazar on February 23, 2015, 05:32:54 PM
Dad:  No one needs 4 cars, even if you did by them all used with cash.   Make sure your new wife doesn't outspend your budget.  And lastly, I don't expect an inheritance, so enjoy your retirement and don't go without because you want to leave a legacy. 
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: kendallf on February 23, 2015, 08:47:03 PM
I have just read most of the replies in this thread, and they simultaneously touch, amuse, and terrify me.  What a group therapy dump!  It seems that we never outgrow family issues. 

It's a good thing we're all so smart, raised by idiots and wolves as we apparently were...   :-)
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: zephyr911 on February 24, 2015, 07:54:16 AM
Dear Mom,

I'll probably never say any of this in real life, because I feel so bad for all the awful shit you've been through, but you're lost in a dreamland and I fear someday, maybe soon, I'll have to choose between my own financial freedom and saving you from poverty. You just hit SS age and we had to help you through that final month, because you have no assets and no reliable income - but you cling to your insanely high-cost city, couch-surfing and house-sitting, relishing the cultural diversity and dreaming of a full-time ministry job.

I'm glad you enjoyed your three-year seminary adventure in your early sixties, and I hope you find work that you love as a result, but dammit, you're homeless! Empty the rest of your storage units and settle for some side work while you hunt for The One! I hated my government job for years but I sucked it up and invested so I could create options. Part of the reason was for you - I don't know who will catch you if you ever really fall hard. I hope I can, but there are limits, and I can't see giving up all my dreams because you chased yours without buckling down and building your own support base first.

We don't regret the times we've helped you, because we love you, but I worry about you ending up in dire straights again if you don't take the reins. You'll be 70 soon, your health is fading, and you don't have a strategy or a plan... just faith that it'll all magically work out. What if it doesn't?

You say your dad died broke because he could never make enough money to be satisfied. He made millions, but he always bet the farm on some wild scheme and lost. Your failing is the opposite - you never seem money-driven, and you're betting all your time and effort on doing things for the right reasons and having it all work out. But again... what if? What then? Have you ever considered Plan B?

My little Southern town isn't exciting or sexy compared to yours, but I saw an opportunity here to give myself and our family the material support base we've never had. I stayed, I made it work, and if you ever run out of options, we'll have a place for you - maybe even your own house if I succeed. Just try not to hit that point too soon. :(
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Lia-Aimee on February 24, 2015, 05:43:11 PM
Mum - thank you for letting me grow up thinking that we were poor, when in reality we just had less than your affluent parents. That made me into a cash-hoarder long before MMM. But in reality, the only reason we lived month-to-month is that you can't stop being a princess.
You're an attractive woman now you looked like a swimsuit model in your 20's. You also like luxury and dislike work. Cool beans. But as a self-defined gold digger myself, I'll give you a tip: a) you have to marry rich, not just comfortable, if you like spending money as much as you do. You can't marry someone earning 70k and expect to maintain the lifestyle that your multimillionnaire daddy could provide. You are not automatically entitled to an acreage and a 5000+ square foot house (for 4 people - 2 now, and you rarely entertain.) It's not something to be proud of to say you never paid a bill in your life, even the few times in your life when you did work. You used to relentlessly complain about your mortgage, but those Frye boots and that crystal ware you bought in your 20's, grand piano in your 40's, and that natural health contraption that looks like a coffin (seriously, I don't know what it is) in your 60's...well, that money could have been put to better use.
Also, if you want to be the stay-at-home spouse and later parent, that means you actually have to take care of the house...whether or not it's fun. You sewed me some badass party dresses and made me some artistic birthday cakes, but basic dinners still need to be cooked and the kitchen floor still needs to be swept.
Oh and stop using instances of previous financial help (all when we were under 18, none of it was money you earned) to manipulate me and my sister. Because of you I have a really hard time accepting gifts or favours of any kind.
OH and stop critiquing what I do with my money, especially when it involves me spending it on sister. Just because you don't like your siblings doesn't mean I can't really love mine. Frankly I dgaf if she's using me.
OH OH and stop telling me that I should be married by now because "I'm too pretty to work," it's just awkward.

Dad - I love you, please grow a pair and stand up to your wife. Just because you grew up with the dinosaurs doesn't mean that women can't contribute to the household at all, particularly when there are no children/grown children. Especially since you've always done more than 50% of the housework. Or start calling the shots about the money you earn, as well as other things YOU want to do in YOUR life; it can be as simple as watching football instead of reality TV.
OH and stop asking me if I have money every time I visit, I know it's hard to understand bit women actually have jobs and I've managed to feed myself for the past 9 years.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: KD on February 24, 2015, 05:58:40 PM
Telling me to go ahead and get a new car loan when I talk about how much I like my paid for vehicles..."Go ahead, everyone has a car payment."  N.o.t. interested. 

Really, doesn't that go against everything you ever tried to stop me from doing just because 'Everyone' was doing it??????

"Would you jump off a cliff if EVERYONE else was doing it?"

"Would I flush my head down the toilet just because EVERYONE else was doing it?"

 
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: okonumiyaki on February 24, 2015, 06:39:15 PM
My parents were/ are more MMM than I am, many of my traits do come from them though.

They kept a 1983 car (bought in 1984 at auction) until it finally died in 2002
Auctiosn were a hobby.  Would (for example) buy 25kg sacks of potatoes & onions and store all winter)
They retired early, with a DIY pension of laddered indexed linked bonds and investment trusts (closed end funds)
Spent money on good, healthy food and wine (weren't frugal on things they liked)
Spent money on interesting holidays (but using almost free airline tickets, as I was working for an airline)
Kitchen garden for home grown food.
Retired to a small town that had everything in walking distance to their house.


They retired on c. 750,000 USD of assets.  When my father died, they were worth at least double.  She did the probate & estate herself.  Funeral was cheapest possible, but money spent on good food & drink for the guests. 
The house is now too much house for my mother, but as the location is so perfect, and she doesn't need to free up money, why sell up?
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Adventine on February 25, 2015, 01:51:53 AM
okonumiyaki, your parents are awesome, and I wish my own were half as great as yours, but you're posting in the wrong thread. Feel free to start your own about Mustachian parents!
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: I'm a red panda on February 25, 2015, 07:54:18 AM

Done properly, a PhD is free. I stupidly paid for some lifestyle inflation when I was in grad school, but the degree itself? I got paid a pitiful pittance to get that. Any school that won't pay you to go to grad school is not a school  you want to be a graduate student at.

This depends on the PhD. There are many fields where assistanceships are rare.  Plus, the poster was talking about the opportunity cost, not just the actual cost. 

My husband has a PhD that he was paid to get by the school- his tuition was paid and he recieved a stipend as a research assistant, we lived modestly, and I worked full time, so we were able to increase our savings while he was doing it.  However, if he had worked a full time job instead of getting a PhD, we would have had a lot more.  We now make about the same amount of money, and I don't have a PhD- so the cost of getting his PhD was actually high, he had to give up 5 years of high earnings and accept meager earnings during that time instead.

But there are other reasons to have a PhD than money, so for us it was worth it.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: MrsSmitty on February 25, 2015, 08:20:17 AM
My parents are very frugal for the most part. I do wish I had a time machine though to go yell at my Dad. 10 years ago he was laid off. He didn't really talk to my mom about retiring or what that would mean for their futures. He just never bothered to find another job. As a result my mom has been supporting them on her (much smaller) salary. She's been stressed about money and worried about their retirements for 10 years. Her solution is to keep working forever. And she's been grumpy that Dad has all this free time and she has to work. For 10 years! Dad! Get another job! You're too young and don't have enough saved yet! Think of your wife for once and keep working for just a few more years so you can both retire comfortably. Ugh.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: ash7962 on February 25, 2015, 09:07:51 AM
I've really enjoyed reading the responses in here, and it makes me happy to see so many people reaching beyond what their parents did. 

My parents are kinda frugal, but not exactly Mustachian.  I don't have anything really heart felt to tell them.. Just that I'm kinda nervous my dad will trade away their nest egg in the options market.  I'm not sure if my Dad is actually good or has been lucky enough to make some money in the options market, but I don't think Wave Theory is a good basis for a trading strategy.  The only reason I don't say anything is because its his hobby that he truly seems to love, and he tells me he's making money.  As far as I know he doesn't risk their entire savings either.  As for my mom, she works a job she hates and I don't think she has to.  They have an almost paid off house that is too big and too expensive (in a high COL area), and I think if they sold it they'd have more than enough money for retirement even after buying a smaller house in a lower COL area.  They even have a lot of savings on top of the house.  My mom has all these dreams and I think she uses work as an excuse to avoid actually trying to make them happen.  She's so scared of failing or making a bad decisions.  I want to scream at her to be more confident in herself and to go for it!  She has OMY syndrome at a job that pays something like 35k/yr.  It makes me sad to see her wasting her life on a crappy job when she's in her 50's and could retire by making a few adjustments to her life.  No more eating out all the time (which is even apart of her dream! she wants to grow her own food!), and no going shopping just for fun.  Oh and that reminds me, your house feels small and unorganized because you have too much stuff!!  Urgh she says she loves tiny houses but she never wants to get rid of their stuff.  She says she wants all these things but never is willing to take steps to achieving her desires.  The only thing she does is take classes in her dream field, which I hope will give her the confidence to actually take steps towards her goals.  I worry that taking classes is a way for her to feel like shes working towards it without actually having to make any changes, and when it comes time to actually DO something she will be frozen in fear.  Parents, your expenses would be so low if you stopped buying the crap you don't need, and stopped eating out which would happen if Mom quit her job.  It pains me to know you could both be happy but don't make the necessary changes to achieve what you say you want.  It also pains me because I know I do the same things, but at least I'm working on it and I have a plan. 

Oh, PS mom, you are totally behind the green movement but you drive to work when its about a 15 minute walk... even in summer.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Toffeemama on February 25, 2015, 03:13:16 PM
MIL: 
I'm sorry that you feel like I'm taking your Precious Son and grandchildren away from you, but we can't afford to live in this area any more.  Even if we could, we would still move because we hate it here.  Your son has no interest in a cushy government desk job where he'll get to sit on his ass for 12 hours a day like your husband.  Our comfort is not nearly as important as our happiness.  I know you think those two things are one and the same, but they aren't.

I know you're scared for us.  You're scared of everything, and it's nearly crippled your children.  But we can make it.  We're stronger than you, and we work hard, no matter what you think.  Don't try to give us any more money to try and keep us here.  A gilded cage is still that - a cage.  So be quiet, and watch us soar.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: zephyr911 on February 27, 2015, 09:45:27 AM
Your son has no interest in a cushy government desk job where he'll get to sit on his ass for 12 hours a day like your husband.
+1!!!!
I actually discovered this site right around the time I decided to make quitting my cushy government desk job my highest priority, so I pretty much equate that sentiment with the essence of Mustachianism.
There are people who are made for it, I guess, working 30 or 40 years and letting the FERS system do their retirement savings for them, and then there are people like me and your husband who want something more. I send high fives.
But as a self-defined gold digger myself
Props for candor! LMAO
Quote
Oh and stop using instances of previous financial help (all when we were under 18, none of it was money you earned) to manipulate me and my sister. Because of you I have a really hard time accepting gifts or favours of any kind.
God damn, that is awful. Is a good old-fashioned backhand out of the question?
I imagine this particular bit of baggage makes it hard to succeed as a gold-digger... ;)
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: irishbear99 on March 02, 2015, 05:57:44 PM
I am NOT your retirement plan. Any money I might have used to assist in your old age was spent on more than a decade of therapy to un-screw my head from your abuse.

(I've said the first sentence. Sometimes I wish I'd had the cajones to say the second; but we don't talk much anymore, so I suppose it's OBE.)
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Pooperman on March 03, 2015, 05:39:56 AM
Mom, enjoy your $5k/wk retirement plan. I know you made tons of cash and want to travel, but come on, you know you won't spend that much every year! Oh, by the way, thanks in advance for the giant inheritance.

Dad, take this double-barreled FU. I'm kinda glad your get-rich quick scheme of FIRE failed as it did.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: MooseOutFront on March 03, 2015, 07:57:59 AM
Dad,
Read a book for once.  You've done great and your federal pension will be plenty forever no matter what you do with the income from your 2nd career, but quit just blindly sending your money to your local small town Edward Jones agent.  You like money and you have plenty of time on your hands and many years left to live, so please educate yourself on issues of investing and estate planning instead of just "having a guy" for that.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: zephyr911 on March 03, 2015, 08:13:23 AM
Mom, enjoy your $5k/wk retirement plan. I know you made tons of cash and want to travel, but come on, you know you won't spend that much every year! Oh, by the way, thanks in advance for the giant inheritance.
Wait... I'm having trouble parsing the layers of sarcasm. What's the actual plan? Is it paid for?
Quote
Dad, take this double-barreled FU. I'm kinda glad your get-rich quick scheme of FIRE failed as it did.
You two must have a great relationship....
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: lisahi on March 03, 2015, 08:28:15 AM
My Dad is very unmustachian. I think my Mom would be mustachian if left to her on devices, although perhaps she just looks really good next to my Dad.

Thing is--I wouldn't tell them anything. My parents are well-off financially. They aren't super rich, but they have a steady income flow that will continue, for the most part, even after one of them dies. Yes, my Mom gets frustrated that my Dad spends too much, but there's no worry about going broke. They're in a very specialized position, financially.

My Mom is retired. My Dad works, but only because he's the type of guy that wouldn't know what to do with himself if he didn't work. Financially, he could retire.

So I've given up on worrying about their financial decisions, like a new car every 2 years (seriously), or the number of barely usable kitchen gadgets my Dad buys, uses once, and forgets about, or the TV/internet plan that includes every single channel you could imagine and costs about $300 per month. I figure that this is their retirement and if they're not going to run out of money before they pass, then let them have fun.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: rockstache on March 03, 2015, 08:54:40 AM
Dad, when your inheritance finally comes in, please don't blow through it. Your kids are counting on it to see you through to the end.

Mom, you sacrificed a lot to raise us alone and even though you weren't always financially savvy, and sometimes tried to overcompensate by giving us gifts that you couldn't afford, we do appreciate your sacrifices. You have a really great attitude now about getting things in order so you won't be a burden on us and I hope that everything you have planned works out for you in the end. If it doesn't, well...that's a big motivating factor to me for having my sh** together, so don't worry, we'll figure it out.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Pooperman on March 03, 2015, 10:34:21 AM
Mom, enjoy your $5k/wk retirement plan. I know you made tons of cash and want to travel, but come on, you know you won't spend that much every year! Oh, by the way, thanks in advance for the giant inheritance.
Wait... I'm having trouble parsing the layers of sarcasm. What's the actual plan? Is it paid for?
Quote
Dad, take this double-barreled FU. I'm kinda glad your get-rich quick scheme of FIRE failed as it did.
You two must have a great relationship....

My mother should have retired years ago, but she likes to spend and will end up retiring with far more than necessary. My father's an * and I don't talk to him anymore for so many reasons. Making me hate someone is very hard to do, and he's the only one to ever have accomplished that. Thankfully, they divorced years ago, and I've got an awesome step-father.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: zephyr911 on March 03, 2015, 11:46:55 AM
My mother should have retired years ago, but she likes to spend and will end up retiring with far more than necessary. My father's an * and I don't talk to him anymore for so many reasons. Making me hate someone is very hard to do, and he's the only one to ever have accomplished that. Thankfully, they divorced years ago, and I've got an awesome step-father.
Forgive me if I'm prying, but I'm deathly curious as to the get-rich-quick scheme.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Pooperman on March 03, 2015, 12:54:16 PM
My mother should have retired years ago, but she likes to spend and will end up retiring with far more than necessary. My father's an * and I don't talk to him anymore for so many reasons. Making me hate someone is very hard to do, and he's the only one to ever have accomplished that. Thankfully, they divorced years ago, and I've got an awesome step-father.
Forgive me if I'm prying, but I'm deathly curious as to the get-rich-quick scheme.

Real estate in 02-08, churning startups, poker, general grandiose ideas with little/no follow-through.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: zephyr911 on March 03, 2015, 01:43:10 PM
Real estate in 02-08, churning startups, poker, general grandiose ideas with little/no follow-through.
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24002095.jpg)
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Chuck on March 04, 2015, 11:16:33 AM
Dad, I know that you had a near miss with Worldcom back in the day, and a lot of your coworkers lost lots of money.

But really. Equities are essential to saving for retirement. They are not gambling. The manipulations Worldcom and Enron used are no longer plausible today.

Please start saving for your retirement.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: MishMash on March 04, 2015, 11:52:26 AM
Mom, your lack of life planning, saving and insurance does NOT mean that I am responsible for paying for your anniversary party and dads funeral and what happens to you after he passes

What I wish I could say...probably NOT what is going to happen though, dads down to 18% heart function so it's only a matter of time, there is no life insurance and zero in savings, what little they did have went to medical bills so someone has to foot the bill.  My brother is broke, unemployed and living with them, my sister is a psychotic crazy person.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Exflyboy on March 04, 2015, 06:51:35 PM
I have learned my Parents don't listen to a damn thing I say about anything.

Example:

My BIL has a diesel powered car.. he's out there cranking the engine for like 5 minutues and it barely starts.. My Dad proclaims "Oh its the battery".. to which his Son (me) who is a professional engineer with 30 years of experience (and who has owned several diesel powered cars and never sent a car to a mechanic in my life) pointed out that was not true.. and then proceeded to tell him it was the glow plugs. I offered the change out the GP for BIL (ignored).. # months later he takes it a mechanic.. guess what it was?.. Duh.

The point of this is I just don't bother saying anything.. on any subject.. no point.. infuriating.. but still, no point.

Oh and they have a 10 year old car with a loan on it too.. !
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Ynari on March 04, 2015, 07:06:03 PM
My parents aren't terribly "un"mustachian, but they are much closer to normal than I'd like.

When I had my first internship, I made a pretty penny. I saved half of what I made. My father said "Don't deprive yourself.  Spend another 25%. You'll still be saving a lot for your age."  And I could not convince him that I wasn't depriving myself - in fact, I felt like I was spending extravagantly! But, for some reason, % of income spent determines quality of life more than actual quality???

My parents are also currently house hunting.  They're looking at $500k+, 4000+ sq ft monstrosities. Granted, it will be housing 6 people, but 4 of those are children/grandchildren who will be moving out as soon as they've finished school, so what are they going to do with 2000 sq ft each?

There was a year when our family of 6 lived in a 1500 sqft 3 bed 1.5 bath and not only survived, but it was actually quite livable. I'd kinda understand if they wanted a 3000 sq ft place now, since they have more money and want a nice place, but I really really don't understand the need for such a mega monster of a house.

I generally keep my remarks to my own personal preferences for a smaller space, because they have enough money to be alright with such a mortgage, but I'm not going to feel sorry for them if they can't find the funds to fly out to see me in the future because of it.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: cashstasherat23 on March 11, 2015, 11:49:35 AM
My parents are so bad with money it drives me insane!!!

In the last few years they have declared bankruptcy after my father lost his job, started a business, closed said business after it wasn't making money, then couldn't find another job. My mother works full time to support all the bills they have, because they never stopped living the upper middle class lifestyle they had even after my father lost his fancy sales job.

Due to declaring bankruptcy, they have decided to just walk away from the house, and instead my mom got a job in another state where they are now renting one house, still paying for utilities in the other house as my siblings still live there, and basically waiting for the bank to take it.

The raise my mother got in her new job is quite good, but instead of paying down their significant debts, they just keep spending more and more. My dad uses my credit card, supposed to be just for utilities, but I now see him spending hundreds/thousands of dollars a month on audio equipment and other junk, all because supposedly they have money now! (note: he does pay it back in full each month, but I know they have many other things they should be using that money for) They also got a new leased car right before declaring bankruptcy, because hey, we won't be able to get a new car once we do it! Dinners out with new friends 3x a week, take out food the rest of the time, vacations, shopping for new clothes...the spending has ramped up, if anything. Now they are paying for that along with everything else.

They are going to go right down the same path and it's frustrating and stupid that even with their significant mistakes, they haven't learned a thing. Ugh, it's so frustrating!

Edit: My father also texts me multiple times a week telling me that now is the time to buy into one stock or the other, because they are down and going to hit it big in the next few weeks. I have told him many times that I am not interested in investing that way, but he doesn't get the picture, and is convinced that I am the dumb one for not following his get rich quick schemes.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Hey It's Me on March 11, 2015, 12:14:23 PM
Let me count the things...

My dear mother believes the government will cut her tax return if she "saves too much."

My dear mother works at a low-paying job, and spends over one-week's pay on it per month. In other words, 1/4th of her working hours are spent paying for the car.

My dear father works at a low-paying job as well, but his is 3 blocks away. He has been discussing with dear mother for months that he also needs a car.

Whenever the subject of saving comes up, my dear parents stoically state, "God will provide."

My dear mother claims all of the household money goes to "necessary expenses." The cabinets are cluttered with snacks, we still have cable and a land line, did I mention the car, and we order delivery multiple times a month.

I love my parents, but I seriously don't understand how two adults could have possibly functioned up to this point without even the most basic money skills...
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Lanthiriel on March 11, 2015, 04:54:18 PM
My dad is fine. He has very Mustachian tendencies, and while his current girlfriend has turned him into a little more of a spendypants than he has ever been, he still lives comfortably within a reasonable budget. He also has a TSP and a good pension when he decides to stop working.

But my mom... not so much. For years after they divorced, she tried to live like she had when they were together. Then the first sibling left for college and her child support went down. Then another. Then alimony ran out. Now she's trying to make ends meet on a low-wage, part-time job. Her friends talked her out of going to school telling her everything she wanted to do was useless. So she's a 50+ year old woman with genes that will let her live well into her 80s, and she has basically nothing in savings and no skills to turn into a decent career.

She has cut her spending way back in the last few years, but it's still not to levels that will ever allow her to retire. She came to visit us for a week recently, and on the last day, she said, "Let's go out to lunch and let me buy you some stuff for your house since I've spent so little money since I've been here." I could not talk her out of it--just mitigate. We did a diner for lunch and I insisted on loving some cheaper items to keep costs down.

I think for her, money equals love. If I could tell her one thing, it would be that, that is just not the case.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Frugalite on March 24, 2015, 08:13:55 PM
Dear Mom,

I am sorry that you and your husband spent $1.3 million dollars in a matter of years and you are no longer living that lifestyle. Since you obviously weren't great with THAT money, how about trying out some advice from me once and a while on how to not go completely broke again. Let's start with your gas guzzling truck.....


Still love you,

Daughter
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: tofuchampion on April 09, 2015, 11:44:31 PM
Well, I think the shit might be hitting the fan soon for my parents.

My dad has cancer. He just found out last week and started chemo this week. Luckily for him, it's a very treatable kind with a good prognosis. Unluckily, this is probably going to bankrupt my parents. They don't have real insurance, they use something called Samaritan Ministries, which is a Christian healthcare cost-sharing organization. Basically instead of paying a premium, you send that amount to whoever's bills are being paid that month, and if you have a need, you submit it and then people send you money for it. I don't know details of what it covers, but they are going to have a lot of out-of-pocket costs. Someone set up a gofundme which says that prescriptions will be $1600/mo after "insurance." ($1300 raised so far; goal of $6000.)

THEN, my mom sends out a mass text to me & the siblings today saying that their landlord is selling the house they live in, so they're going to be moving. She adds that they want to buy instead of rent this time.

Ummm... these people have no emergency fund. They live paycheck-to-paycheck. They are in their late 50's (mom will be 59 this year; dad will be 57) with no retirement savings. They have NOTHING except a house full of clutter; where the hell do they think a down payment is going to come from? And then mortgage, insurance, taxes, repairs, etc. Plus the medical bills, and possibly decreased ability to work (my dad's job is part commission; mom does not have a personality conducive to holding down a job).

I am probably an asshole, but my parents are not nice people and I don't feel the least bit worried or sympathetic. I'm just sitting back and watching this train wreck happen. They think I'm broke so they won't ask me for money, I don't think. I hope not.

EDITED TO ADD: They live just outside of DC, and my mom insists on having a pretty big house (they have a 5br/2ba right now), soooo it's not like they'll be buying some cheap little thing.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: handsnhearts on April 10, 2015, 02:41:59 AM
I am NOT your retirement plan. Any money I might have used to assist in your old age was spent on more than a decade of therapy to un-screw my head from your abuse.

(I've said the first sentence. Sometimes I wish I'd had the cajones to say the second; but we don't talk much anymore, so I suppose it's OBE.)

THIS +1111111

I hear you loud and clear!
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: asauer on April 10, 2015, 01:57:34 PM
I want to scream "More is NOT better!"  My mom buys clothes, food, housewares etc. with this attitude.  I constantly hear "It's cheap, buy three!"  First, I value quality over quantity- I don't want to buy a shitty thing for $10 but buy it 5 times.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: MgoSam on April 11, 2015, 09:27:10 PM
To sell their 6 bedroom house that they are the only ones that live in (except when my sister comes to visit once a year with her kids) and downgrade to a more modest place, or a townhouse/condo as neither like to maintain (they pay for lawn and snow maintenance).
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Unique User on April 13, 2015, 10:28:30 AM
Wow - for the longest time I thought mine was the biggest train wreck!

Parental Unit - I'm sorry you blew through $250k of an inheritance buying a loser business because your then drunk husband told you it was a good idea but it went bankrupt four years later.  Stealing $46k for said stupid business from 20 year old me because you had access to my accounts since you were worried I was "irresponsible", well, you should be glad I'm no longer bitter.  I'm sorry you work a part time job at 70 because you have credit card debt and can't stop buying shit.  Credit card debt at 70 when you have a house your mother bought for you is just ridiculous.  And yes, I will continue calling you by your first name because regardless of the amounts of therapy I have gone through and the fact that I have forgiven you for all the crap you and your then drunk husband pulled on me, it keeps me sane.  Thanks for giving birth to me, but no matter what you think, you did not raise me and you do not get to take credit for my accomplishments. 
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Kashmani on April 13, 2015, 11:23:45 AM
Well, here I go. Dear Dad:

1. Convincing 20-year old me to invest almost $250,000 from an inheritance into your business was selfish. It has already cost me more than that in opportunity costs for missing out on the housing market in the 2000s as I had to keep renting.

2. Structuring it so that the money is invested in real estate that you use to finance your operations, without any return at all in 15 years for me, is doubly selfish.

3. Expecting me to work in said business for free at that same age was triply selfish.

4. Repeatedly calling me out for abandoning the family when I switched professions and moved 1,400 km away just to avoid issue (3) was not selfish, but uncalled for. I happen to be the only person in the family that is currently self-supporting.

5. Spending an obscene amount of money so your step-granddaughter can get a $70K/yr Ph.D. is silly. She has no work experience. She does not know what she wants to do. She is simply jumping through hoops other people are setting up. Incidentally, my own children received what? Exactly, $0.

6. After passing up a 20-year dream for an overseas job opportunity in Europe so I can care for your through terminal illness, a "thank you" would have been nice. Actually choosing to spend some time with your grandchildren rather than prioritizing work above everything would also be nice.

7. Thank you for passing on your INTJ personality to me. It allowed me to emotionally detach, rationally analyze the situation, and choose my own path in life that has actually worked out quite well. If I had been more emotionally involved, I would not have gotten through issues 1-6 relatively unscathed.

8. Nonetheless, I love you, and I think you are making a big mistake prioritizing work with limited time left. I hope you will not regret it.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: grsing on April 13, 2015, 05:43:17 PM
I'd love to be able to convince my dad that he doesn't actually have to keep working. I don't know details of their finances, but from what I can piece together, they're FI, probably several times over, but my dad has been so committed to work for his entire adult life, he doesn't get that there could be anything else. A quadruple bypass at least convinced him to take better care of himself, but he just doesn't have to put himself through the stress and overwork if he could just realize that he's got more than enough to live on very comfortably, and my sister and I have done quite well enough for ourselves that we certainly don't need any huge inheritances. I'd much rather he retire and enjoy himself than keep killing himself over extra money that nobody needs.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: carolinap on December 27, 2016, 05:22:20 PM
Dear mom (and stepfather),

If I talk out loud about "need" something, that doesn't mean you should go out and buy it for me.

First, because you don't have the money to (she is a public school teacher).
Second, because I probably won't like it (with most items, that are specifications of my preference that she doesn't know about and giving me the wrong one will result in me not using it at all).
Third, because I don't need you to "fix" my life!

That makes me sound like the biggest b**** of all times, but, it makes me sad. I talked about wanting a bike, and suddenly my step father bought me one. I got nervous, because he for sure would miss some specifications. I'm short, and don't feel comfortable riding bikes that are too tall. It wasn't an urgent purchase. I didn't want to disappoint them.

But it makes me angry too because they don't listen to me at all! I loud and clear have to affirm explicitly that they shouldn't buy me stuff (as I know better my needs), but parents have that common impulse to try to fix their kids' lives, and fix it THEIR WAY.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: KodeBlue on December 29, 2016, 06:46:25 AM
Dear MIL:

Thank you for another box of useless crap. It's so fucking irritating to deal with. As I've mentioned in the past (like every Dec. for the last 20 yrs.) DH and I are in our 50's and way way past the age that we need enough gifts that we have one to open on each night of Hanukkah. That's 16 gifts!

Next year please take the money you would spend on stuff for us and buy a bunch of lottery tickets, since you and your late husband saved shit for your old age winning the lottery is your last hope. Because I don't intend to work one extra day to support you.

Love,
KodeBlue


Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: onehair on December 29, 2016, 08:53:50 AM
Mom: I didn't listen for the first 30 years and I suffered for it but I started listening now.  Please let me help you out! :-) If you need something I am happy to get it for you if I can I know you were somewhat Mustachian before I accepted you were right about saving money and you were there when I was at my absolute silliest! You do quite well with your pension and whatnot so no worries there Thank God.... So let me do for you sometimes really.  I know you're anxious about my living situation (You all know the story here already) but me and son are working on it don't worry.

Dad: You're one of a kind.  A miser and a hoarder.  The irony is he has money (and I only ever asked for a small amount once $56)and will only spend it if extremely pressed preferring to see if he can sponge off relatives first.  I know this is Unmustachian but in his case I recommend spending some of the money!!  He is that way because my grandfather was irresponsible with money go figure....And be nicer to your third wife though I do call her a doormat.  Unlike my mom and your second wife she seems to be extremely obedient to the point of alienating her children for you...
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: malacca on January 01, 2017, 10:22:51 AM
My mom, sister and their offspring all have nothing but live like they are wealthy. Bar, cigarettes, pull tabs, gas station food / snacks and will pay 2X for something if it is slightly convenient. If anyone had any savings - 401K or what not - all has been drained.

Family with kids get together to watch a parade. It ends around 12:30. It is hot and no one has bothered to bring any water. We of course have our water bottles.

Then I hear the moans of everyone is hungry - very hungry. No one bothered with breakfast before leaving the house. Of course no one has a dime so they assume I will foot the bill for Chinese food. Sorry! We packed our own lunch!

Family get together ends as no one has any energy and no food. We eat our lunch at the park and go home.

Oh, but family gathered enough to get a few Mountain Dews at the gas station. Goes well with the candy from the parade (our kids don't eat candy so they had a lot to consume).

I support my mom - well because she is my mom. But the money just gets sucked up by everyone else as my mom is a sucker. Relatives make her drive them here and there - so her vehicles wear our quickly. So I have to buy a another one.

I am FIRE with good income but amazingly the family members that have nothing - one on disability, one on welfare, mom retired with just enough - spend like they have more than me.

Funny thing is that if they lived reasonably frugally I would give them more or help them more. But it is too hard to see my money pissed away!
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: RetiredAt63 on January 01, 2017, 05:46:59 PM
My mom, sister and their offspring all have nothing but live like they are wealthy. Bar, cigarettes, pull tabs, gas station food / snacks and will pay 2X for something if it is slightly convenient. If anyone had any savings - 401K or what not - all has been drained.

Family with kids get together to watch a parade. It ends around 12:30. It is hot and no one has bothered to bring any water. We of course have our water bottles.

Then I hear the moans of everyone is hungry - very hungry. No one bothered with breakfast before leaving the house. Of course no one has a dime so they assume I will foot the bill for Chinese food. Sorry! We packed our own lunch!

Family get together ends as no one has any energy and no food. We eat our lunch at the park and go home.

Oh, but family gathered enough to get a few Mountain Dews at the gas station. Goes well with the candy from the parade (our kids don't eat candy so they had a lot to consume).

I support my mom - well because she is my mom. But the money just gets sucked up by everyone else as my mom is a sucker. Relatives make her drive them here and there - so her vehicles wear our quickly. So I have to buy a another one.

I am FIRE with good income but amazingly the family members that have nothing - one on disability, one on welfare, mom retired with just enough - spend like they have more than me.

Funny thing is that if they lived reasonably frugally I would give them more or help them more. But it is too hard to see my money pissed away!

Little picture - can you give everyone a heads-up that you are bringing water and a packed lunch for you, are the others going to do the same or what?  This gives notice that you are not buying everyone lunch.  Same for other joint activities.

Big picture - but why are you buying your mother another car when this one wears out?  Your mother can do this because you are helping her out, but in reality you are helping the others out via her.  Your mother isn't protecting her resources because she can always turn to you, so she has no incentive to not be a sucker.  This topic comes up again and again, we all want to help but it doesn't really help.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on January 01, 2017, 10:31:25 PM
My mom, sister and their offspring all have nothing but live like they are wealthy. Bar, cigarettes, pull tabs, gas station food / snacks and will pay 2X for something if it is slightly convenient. If anyone had any savings - 401K or what not - all has been drained.

Family with kids get together to watch a parade. It ends around 12:30. It is hot and no one has bothered to bring any water. We of course have our water bottles.

Then I hear the moans of everyone is hungry - very hungry. No one bothered with breakfast before leaving the house. Of course no one has a dime so they assume I will foot the bill for Chinese food.

I've met many people who spend double to triple the amount on an item due to simple lack of planning, and who therefore think nothing of dining out several times per week. They invariably have nothing to show for it and are furious when they can't gouge the money for necessities out of others.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: merula on January 02, 2017, 08:36:44 AM
My mom, sister and their offspring all have nothing but live like they are wealthy. Bar, cigarettes, pull tabs, gas station food / snacks and will pay 2X for something if it is slightly convenient. If anyone had any savings - 401K or what not - all has been drained.

Maybe this is a strange perspective, but not a single thing you listed strikes me as particularly "wealthy". Like, the "wealthy" I know (thinking about a C-suite-earning relative and family) will pay 2x as much for stuff, but it's going to be (1) planned ahead and (2) worth the cost to them.

As an example, I can see your family grabbing a cab at the airport rather than waiting 10 minutes for an Uber that would cost half as much, since the cab is right there and you probably have to go hunting for the Uber. In contrast, my relative would have a towncar waiting for him, which on an hourly basis is ~1.5x what the cab costs, but is SPECIFICALLY for him, knows where he's going and how to get there, and has his Coke Zero waiting and chilled.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Exflyboy on January 02, 2017, 02:02:41 PM
"I'm smarter than you about money, just because you raised me does not mean you're unable to take advice from your son."

This. This, a thousand times over. Mostly on behalf of my husband though - he's the "baby" of the family, and neither his parents nor his siblings will take him seriously even though we are the only ones in his family who have their shit together. I know it makes him anxious that someday they are all going to be coming to him for help, because they wouldn't accept any right now. :/

They probably don't ask for advice because they know they would not like it. I assume that is why no one in my family asks me for advice, even though I have a PhD in economics and have an obviously well-organized personal financial life.

^^^This a thousand times over. Sadly you are "the kid" and it doesn't matter how expert you are they will totally ignore you.. Always have ignored me.. Then told me how I am wrong on numerous occasions.

Yup, well I guess advanced engineering degrees and 30 years experience.. Yeah what could I possibly know considering neither of you finished high school?
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: ambimammular on January 02, 2017, 05:14:23 PM
Dear Mom,
I don't want to inherit your Precious Moments figurines or antique cookie jars. My brothers don't either. I also don't want to deal with all of your garage sale finds someday when you're gone. Please stop buying stuff you don't need and host a garage sale of your own.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Kitsune on January 02, 2017, 07:14:47 PM
"I'm smarter than you about money, just because you raised me does not mean you're unable to take advice from your son."

This. This, a thousand times over. Mostly on behalf of my husband though - he's the "baby" of the family, and neither his parents nor his siblings will take him seriously even though we are the only ones in his family who have their shit together. I know it makes him anxious that someday they are all going to be coming to him for help, because they wouldn't accept any right now. :/

They probably don't ask for advice because they know they would not like it. I assume that is why no one in my family asks me for advice, even though I have a PhD in economics and have an obviously well-organized personal financial life.

^^^This a thousand times over. Sadly you are "the kid" and it doesn't matter how expert you are they will totally ignore you.. Always have ignored me.. Then told me how I am wrong on numerous occasions.

Yup, well I guess advanced engineering degrees and 30 years experience.. Yeah what could I possibly know considering neither of you finished high school?

My mother recently asked me how one goes about setting a family budget.

On one hand, encouraging!

On the other hand, oh god you're 61 and have been with the same guy for 43 years I guess I know why you feel insecure about your retirement oh god oh god!
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: infogoon on January 03, 2017, 07:19:22 AM
Dad, I don't want to inherit your fancy sports car. It's very nice, but I've got three kids and no garage. What the hell am I going to do with it? Sell the goddamned thing and take your wife on vacation.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: HairyUpperLip on January 03, 2017, 09:01:48 AM
Dad, I don't want to inherit your fancy sports car. It's very nice, but I've got three kids and no garage. What the hell am I going to do with it? Sell the goddamned thing and take your wife on vacation.

What kind of car?
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: MgoSam on January 03, 2017, 09:57:08 AM
"I'm smarter than you about money, just because you raised me does not mean you're unable to take advice from your son."

This. This, a thousand times over. Mostly on behalf of my husband though - he's the "baby" of the family, and neither his parents nor his siblings will take him seriously even though we are the only ones in his family who have their shit together. I know it makes him anxious that someday they are all going to be coming to him for help, because they wouldn't accept any right now. :/

They probably don't ask for advice because they know they would not like it. I assume that is why no one in my family asks me for advice, even though I have a PhD in economics and have an obviously well-organized personal financial life.

^^^This a thousand times over. Sadly you are "the kid" and it doesn't matter how expert you are they will totally ignore you.. Always have ignored me.. Then told me how I am wrong on numerous occasions.

Yup, well I guess advanced engineering degrees and 30 years experience.. Yeah what could I possibly know considering neither of you finished high school?

My mother recently asked me how one goes about setting a family budget.

On one hand, encouraging!

On the other hand, oh god you're 61 and have been with the same guy for 43 years I guess I know why you feel insecure about your retirement oh god oh god!

My brother and his wife (both MBAs) a few years ago were asking my dad about how long-term investments are taxed and how long long-term is. These are both things they should know and my dad was stumbling to give the correct answer so I blurted out  "Over one year" and "15%," and my brother looked at me as if wondering, 'how the heck could he possibly know anything,' and ignored me.

Yeah it sucks to be the "baby" in the family that no one thinks is capable of anything.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Stachey on January 03, 2017, 11:22:02 AM
Stop buying expensive real estate!  They haven't made money on a house yet. 
They keep "upgrading" which means larger and larger and larger.
Then they complain about all the upkeep and the cleaning of it and the lawnwork and higher taxes and on and on and on.
What they need is a small condo somewhere but that will NEVER happen.
F###!!!!!
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: RetiredAt63 on January 05, 2017, 11:34:37 AM

Yup, well I guess advanced engineering degrees and 30 years experience.. Yeah what could I possibly know considering neither of you finished high school?

Yeah but look what they survived (I'm guessing depression/WW2)- how many people of their age and circumstances finished HS?  I have a good, very bright friend who, due to family circumstances, had to leave school at 16 and never finished HS either.

Of course they were stupid enough to give birth to a know-it-all engineer.  ;-)  Gotta stand up for the parents here.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Sibley on January 05, 2017, 11:59:40 AM
Dear Mom,
I don't want to inherit your Precious Moments figurines or antique cookie jars. My brothers don't either. I also don't want to deal with all of your garage sale finds someday when you're gone. Please stop buying stuff you don't need and host a garage sale of your own.

Mine is,

Dear Mom, I don't want all the furniture and random stuff from long dead relatives that I never knew, or if I did know, didn't care for. There is a VERY short list of what I want from your house, and almost none of it is stuff you care so much about.

P.S. Sister feels the same way. Luckily, what we want doesn't seem to overlap. But a lot of stuff will be sold, donated, or given away.

Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Shinplaster on January 05, 2017, 02:16:30 PM
Dear Mom,
I don't want to inherit your Precious Moments figurines or antique cookie jars. My brothers don't either. I also don't want to deal with all of your garage sale finds someday when you're gone. Please stop buying stuff you don't need and host a garage sale of your own.

Mine is,

Dear Mom, I don't want all the furniture and random stuff from long dead relatives that I never knew, or if I did know, didn't care for. There is a VERY short list of what I want from your house, and almost none of it is stuff you care so much about.

P.S. Sister feels the same way. Luckily, what we want doesn't seem to overlap. But a lot of stuff will be sold, donated, or given away.

+1.   I don't want your doll collection, the glass ornaments or the hideous bedroom set.  But I try to remember that as R@63 posted above, my Mom was a child of the depression.  She also had to drop out of high school in grade 10, because her Mom was ill, and there was no provincial health care then.  She was needed to work and help support the family, and never did finish high school, despite being very bright.  Her few frivolous things are a way of affirming that she has come a long way from those days, and give her joy and satisfaction.  For so many years she and my Dad could barely afford the bare necessities, and she is still pretty mustachian, although she doesn't need to be.  When she reminds my sister or I about taking her prize possessions, we just nod, and agree.  She's earned our love and respect, and I won't hurt her feelings by telling her these things have no value to us.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: RetiredAt63 on January 05, 2017, 02:31:45 PM
Dear Mom,
I don't want to inherit your Precious Moments figurines or antique cookie jars. My brothers don't either. I also don't want to deal with all of your garage sale finds someday when you're gone. Please stop buying stuff you don't need and host a garage sale of your own.

Mine is,

Dear Mom, I don't want all the furniture and random stuff from long dead relatives that I never knew, or if I did know, didn't care for. There is a VERY short list of what I want from your house, and almost none of it is stuff you care so much about.

P.S. Sister feels the same way. Luckily, what we want doesn't seem to overlap. But a lot of stuff will be sold, donated, or given away.

+1.   I don't want your doll collection, the glass ornaments or the hideous bedroom set.  But I try to remember that as R@63 posted above, my Mom was a child of the depression.  She also had to drop out of high school in grade 10, because her Mom was ill, and there was no provincial health care then.  She was needed to work and help support the family, and never did finish high school, despite being very bright.  Her few frivolous things are a way of affirming that she has come a long way from those days, and give her joy and satisfaction.  For so many years she and my Dad could barely afford the bare necessities, and she is still pretty mustachian, although she doesn't need to be.  When she reminds my sister or I about taking her prize possessions, we just nod, and agree.  She's earned our love and respect, and I won't hurt her feelings by telling her these things have no value to us.

And you never know - attachment to things often skips a generation or 2 - I love furniture from my grandparents that no-one else liked, and my DD loves figurines (I have zero interest) and hopes that eventually she will get some of her grandmother's figurines.  She was supposed to get a few of them when her grandmother died, but never did.  Not sure where they went, it wasn't in the will.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Shinplaster on January 05, 2017, 02:45:12 PM
Dear Mom,
I don't want to inherit your Precious Moments figurines or antique cookie jars. My brothers don't either. I also don't want to deal with all of your garage sale finds someday when you're gone. Please stop buying stuff you don't need and host a garage sale of your own.

Mine is,

Dear Mom, I don't want all the furniture and random stuff from long dead relatives that I never knew, or if I did know, didn't care for. There is a VERY short list of what I want from your house, and almost none of it is stuff you care so much about.

P.S. Sister feels the same way. Luckily, what we want doesn't seem to overlap. But a lot of stuff will be sold, donated, or given away.

+1.   I don't want your doll collection, the glass ornaments or the hideous bedroom set.  But I try to remember that as R@63 posted above, my Mom was a child of the depression.  She also had to drop out of high school in grade 10, because her Mom was ill, and there was no provincial health care then.  She was needed to work and help support the family, and never did finish high school, despite being very bright.  Her few frivolous things are a way of affirming that she has come a long way from those days, and give her joy and satisfaction.  For so many years she and my Dad could barely afford the bare necessities, and she is still pretty mustachian, although she doesn't need to be.  When she reminds my sister or I about taking her prize possessions, we just nod, and agree.  She's earned our love and respect, and I won't hurt her feelings by telling her these things have no value to us.

And you never know - attachment to things often skips a generation or 2 - I love furniture from my grandparents that no-one else liked, and my DD loves figurines (I have zero interest) and hopes that eventually she will get some of her grandmother's figurines.  She was supposed to get a few of them when her grandmother died, but never did.  Not sure where they went, it wasn't in the will.

True.  My Grandma had beautiful quartersawn oak and tiger eye maple furniture I would have taken in a heartbeat, and I believe it was pretty much given away when she died.   Broke my heart the cousins didn't understand what they had, and didn't offer it to any of us 'easterners'  before they disposed of it.   But my Mom's bedroom set - yeah, that's just hideous. (Pseudo Spanish monstrosity my Dad picked out).
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: onlykelsey on January 05, 2017, 04:05:31 PM
To my Aunt-in-law: Stop talking shit about the women who use the food pantry in your neighborhood. You're a high school graduate (barely) who was lucky enough to be born during an era when that could get you a job with a pension and gold-plated health care for the rest of your life. If you'd been born thirty years later, you'd be working at Walmart and standing in that same line.

Oof.  That is really a good way to summarize my issue with a lot of family members/acquaintances.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Exflyboy on January 06, 2017, 11:59:26 PM

Yup, well I guess advanced engineering degrees and 30 years experience.. Yeah what could I possibly know considering neither of you finished high school?

Yeah but look what they survived (I'm guessing depression/WW2)- how many people of their age and circumstances finished HS?  I have a good, very bright friend who, due to family circumstances, had to leave school at 16 and never finished HS either.

Of course they were stupid enough to give birth to a know-it-all engineer.  ;-)  Gotta stand up for the parents here.

Yes but you miss my point I think. I don't blame them one bit for not finishing high school.. This was the East End of London where the Blitz started after all!

My point is, they assume I'm a dumbass and can't possibly know anything and even when they do ask my opinion in areas where I AM and expert actually (not boasting, thats just fact!).. They usually do the exact opposite.

I don't know about you but when I give somebody consultancy for free usually that person usually takes the advice. But not my folks, they will ignore me because clearly I know nothing.

That doesn't sound very smart to me..
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: C-note on January 07, 2017, 07:07:23 AM
Not unmustachian - bloomed around mid-life - but we are parents and these letters are great!  We've been working our way through cabinets, drawers, closets, etc. and wondering what to do with some of the "treasures" we've kept.

Now - how to tell OUR parents . . . . . . .   
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: RetiredAt63 on January 07, 2017, 07:18:50 AM

Yup, well I guess advanced engineering degrees and 30 years experience.. Yeah what could I possibly know considering neither of you finished high school?

Yeah but look what they survived (I'm guessing depression/WW2)- how many people of their age and circumstances finished HS?  I have a good, very bright friend who, due to family circumstances, had to leave school at 16 and never finished HS either.

Of course they were stupid enough to give birth to a know-it-all engineer.  ;-)  Gotta stand up for the parents here.

Yes but you miss my point I think. I don't blame them one bit for not finishing high school.. This was the East End of London where the Blitz started after all!

My point is, they assume I'm a dumbass and can't possibly know anything and even when they do ask my opinion in areas where I AM and expert actually (not boasting, thats just fact!).. They usually do the exact opposite.

I don't know about you but when I give somebody consultancy for free usually that person usually takes the advice. But not my folks, they will ignore me because clearly I know nothing.

That doesn't sound very smart to me..

Ah, your explanation changes the emphasis.  Not their education level, but their mistrust of yours.  One thing I find living in a rural farming area is that people are super surprised when I say something practical (especially around things like gardening), because they expect me to be an ivory tower academic.  Maybe your parents think it is all "book-learning" and not "real life practical"?  Not that it improves the situation, but it does make it more bearable psychologically.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: SwordGuy on January 07, 2017, 10:08:51 AM
My dad would ask my advice about personal computers and then do the exact opposite of what I said to do.

After doing that a couple of times, I just changed the subject and refused to give more advice.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: RetiredAt63 on January 07, 2017, 04:05:57 PM
My dad would ask my advice about personal computers and then do the exact opposite of what I said to do.

After doing that a couple of times, I just changed the subject and refused to give more advice.

I'm sure you gave him good advice, and I am not aiming it at you, just a general comment.  This reminded me of something I read once - "if you are not sure which way to decide something, ask someone whose opinion you do not respect, and do the opposite of what that person recommends."  I think it was for politics (who to vote for), but it could apply in a lot of areas. 
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: clarkfan1979 on January 07, 2017, 10:14:00 PM
They probably don't ask for advice because they know they would not like it. I assume that is why no one in my family asks me for advice, even though I have a PhD in economics and have an obviously well-organized personal financial life.

I am sorry to have to tell you this, but I don't think a PhD in economics is a credential that speaks in favor of your financial acumen. ;)

I have a Ph.D. in Applied Social Psychology. We covered some of the basic research that supports behavioral economics and behavioral finance. I've been out of grad school for about 6 years. Based on my circle of friends with 4 year degrees (20 people), I'm probably in the top 5-10% in net worth and hourly wage.

Over the past 6 years, our net worth went from 50K to 450K. My hourly wage for my day job is $60/hour. If you factor my rental income and time spent on the rental houses, it's more like $75/hour. If you consider that I'm taking 12 weeks of family leave this year with pay, I'm actually at $120/hour this year.

Getting a Ph.D. does not guarantee success in personal finance. However, for me specifically, it helped me out a lot. If I live to be 80, I should make it to 10 million. I don't think I would have a chance at that number without my grad school experience.



I am curious what the basis is for this comment. Is it based on actually knowing any people with economics PhDs?

From a purely financial perspective, I'm pretty sure the opportunity cost of a PhD outweighs any future financial benefit in almost all cases. Of course there are many great non-financial reasons to get a PhD, but again, then it remains the opposite of a financial credential.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Abundant life on January 07, 2017, 10:31:52 PM
Quote
they assume I'm a dumbass and can't possibly know anything and even when they do ask my opinion in areas where I AM and expert actually (not boasting, thats just fact!).. They usually do the exact opposite.

I don't know about you but when I give somebody consultancy for free usually that person usually takes the advice. But not my folks, they will ignore me because clearly I know nothing.

So here's my shoe-on-the-other-foot story.

DS had trained as a mechanic and had all the fancy tools etc. He and his wife move into the family home and he begs me to service and do repairs on my car. I say ok, when they need doing ...

In the mean time we disagree about a home improvement that we implemented to benefit said son and wife. DS refuses to continue work on agreed project, leaving DH and I $15,000 into it and only half way finished. Son and wife continue to live with us, not contributing anything to food or bills as per original agreement.

Months later when my car needs new brakes, and the quote is for $1000 or $2000 - I forget which, I ask DS if he could do my brakes? A flat no.

So what did he do that same weekend in our backyard? Fixed his friend's brakes :(
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Exflyboy on January 08, 2017, 12:19:44 AM
Quote
they assume I'm a dumbass and can't possibly know anything and even when they do ask my opinion in areas where I AM and expert actually (not boasting, thats just fact!).. They usually do the exact opposite.

I don't know about you but when I give somebody consultancy for free usually that person usually takes the advice. But not my folks, they will ignore me because clearly I know nothing.

So here's my shoe-on-the-other-foot story.

DS had trained as a mechanic and had all the fancy tools etc. He and his wife move into the family home and he begs me to service and do repairs on my car. I say ok, when they need doing ...

In the mean time we disagree about a home improvement that we implemented to benefit said son and wife. DS refuses to continue work on agreed project, leaving DH and I $15,000 into it and only half way finished. Son and wife continue to live with us, not contributing anything to food or bills as per original agreement.

Months later when my car needs new brakes, and the quote is for $1000 or $2000 - I forget which, I ask DS if he could do my brakes? A flat no.

So what did he do that same weekend in our backyard? Fixed his friend's brakes :(

And I assume said offspring will be moving out next weekend?.. If not he (and she) bloody well should be!!!
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: chrisgermany on January 08, 2017, 01:19:00 AM
Send them a notice to leave.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Abundant life on January 08, 2017, 02:38:43 AM
Quote
they assume I'm a dumbass and can't possibly know anything and even when they do ask my opinion in areas where I AM and expert actually (not boasting, thats just fact!).. They usually do the exact opposite.

I don't know about you but when I give somebody consultancy for free usually that person usually takes the advice. But not my folks, they will ignore me because clearly I know nothing.

So here's my shoe-on-the-other-foot story.

DS had trained as a mechanic and had all the fancy tools etc. He and his wife move into the family home and he begs me to service and do repairs on my car. I say ok, when they need doing ...

In the mean time we disagree about a home improvement that we implemented to benefit said son and wife. DS refuses to continue work on agreed project, leaving DH and I $15,000 into it and only half way finished. Son and wife continue to live with us, not contributing anything to food or bills as per original agreement.

Months later when my car needs new brakes, and the quote is for $1000 or $2000 - I forget which, I ask DS if he could do my brakes? A flat no.

So what did he do that same weekend in our backyard? Fixed his friend's brakes :(

And I assume said offspring will be moving out next weekend?.. If not he (and she) bloody well should be!!!
Already happened two years ago. Not with an attitude of gratitude I must say, but with instructions not to visit him interstate. Also if he and wife were to have kids, they didn't want us to have anything to do with them. (Not likely, currently separated intending to divorce this year)

Send them a notice to leave.

They actually spent time in Germany 2015-2016. DS is back in the country, but vowed he'd never live with us again. (He's right there)
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: EricNYC on January 08, 2017, 11:40:51 AM
My dad's not Mustachian by any means, but he's got a decent level of financial sense and generally listens. We go out running in the park and he usually wants to go to a diner or something afterwards. I've started suggesting we eat the leftovers instead (there's always SOMETHING at his house) and he's gotten more open to that, and spending less money on take out, has started cooking again, etc. I think that if God forbid, something happened to me and I wasn't around to provide any sort of support (we've had the talk), he'd make do.

I'm trying to convince him to not get a new cat after his current one dies. Not out of a cold, cost-analysis type of argument, but because it's been so emotionally devastating for us when a pet dies. I'm really worried what that'd do to him, especially considering he'd be in his mid to late 70s when the next cat dies.

The only thing I really want to say to him is this: Not everyone needs a car!!! Sure, if we didn't live in a city with a comprehensive public transportation system, I would have one and try to be as sane as possible with my car usage and expenses, but I've lived in this city for nearly 30 years without one, I've never felt deprived and I don't think I ever will. Even if we lived in some sort of bizarro world where friendship didn't exist and I had no one to bum rides off of, I don't think my life would be terribly impacted.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Cassie on January 08, 2017, 07:24:50 PM
Eric:  I know your hearts in the right place about your Dad having a cat but a pet can be so important as you age. I am 62 and as you age your friends start to die, your spouse may be gone and for some older people a animal might be the only thing they touch on a regular basis that is alive.  We have 4 old dogs and as they die we will only have 1 dog so when we die it will not be burden for my son to take 1. I grieve terribly when one dies but it would be worse to not have 1 pet.  When I was a social worker we would actually encourage older people to get another pet for the company. At our age we still have lots of friends, social contacts but by the time my Mom reached her 80's she had outlived all her friends. 
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: EricNYC on January 08, 2017, 07:49:04 PM
That's something I never thought about. Thank you for that perspective!
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Cassie on January 08, 2017, 08:18:30 PM
Really glad that I could help:)) I never thought of any of this stuff when I was  young either.  It wasn't until I became a social worker  in my 30's working with older people that I learned about the issues of aging.  Even though we are not that old we have lost some of our friends already.   You sound like you have a great relationship with your Dad and are a good son. 
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: EricNYC on January 08, 2017, 08:55:56 PM
I try! In my first post I was thinking of how down he was when our last cat died, and I mostly don't want him to go through that again. I didn't think of the benefits of a companion animal -- probably because of what you said, and because my grandparents weren't really pet people. Again, thanks for providing a point which I hadn't thought of.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Just Joe on January 09, 2017, 04:48:12 PM
My point is, they assume I'm a dumbass and can't possibly know anything and even when they do ask my opinion in areas where I AM and expert actually (not boasting, thats just fact!).. They usually do the exact opposite.

I don't know about you but when I give somebody consultancy for free usually that person usually takes the advice. But not my folks, they will ignore me because clearly I know nothing.

Anyone want to start a poll on this topic? I'll bet it is pretty normal. Certainly in my family...
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: renata ricotta on January 09, 2017, 05:33:28 PM
I try! In my first post I was thinking of how down he was when our last cat died, and I mostly don't want him to go through that again. I didn't think of the benefits of a companion animal -- probably because of what you said, and because my grandparents weren't really pet people. Again, thanks for providing a point which I hadn't thought of.

I've also read that having a pet is really good for old-age longevity.  Having a living thing to care for (assuming it's not an animal that needs an awful lot of physical activity to be happy) gives elderly people something to do and something to connect with.  Lots of long-term care facilities keep pets or have visiting comfort animals.  https://www.nps.gov/goga/learn/management/upload/Comment-4704-attachment_.pdf 
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Fish Sweet on January 12, 2017, 02:05:50 PM
Mom, stop buying crap you don't need, just because you "like" them and they're "on sale."  Shoes on sale, jackets, pretty plates and dishes, kitchenware, bullshit to fill your already filled home full of crap you can't bear to part with and never use.   You complain about money all the time, you've borrowed seventeen fucking thousand dollars from your twenty three year old daughter because of your lack of it, and then KEEP ON SHOPPING.  And then you have the gall to get on my case for buying things-- well, until I also owe you over ten grand for bullshit reasons, you can just keep your mouth shut.

I've already given her the sanitized, mother-friendly talking to version of this shpeal, but my mom loves shopping and seems to have no concept of causation-correlation when she complains about how little she has and how boohoooo she has no money, and the piles of unused crap she buys.  And then tries to foist on me.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Shieldmaiden on January 12, 2017, 02:19:49 PM
Dad: leasing is not a good deal. Ever. And upgrading your cellphone always drives up the bill- although considering he's not paying said bill, he probably doesn't care about that last one.
Also, you have a ton of 'fixer upper' boats and cars that you bought at bargain prices and proceeded to let rot in our driveway. Sell them already!

Mom: You need a budget and stop buying shit for the apartment. You deserve nice things, but now is not the time.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Reynold on January 12, 2017, 03:34:05 PM
I've met many people who spend double to triple the amount on an item due to simple lack of planning, and who therefore think nothing of dining out several times per week. They invariably have nothing to show for it and are furious when they can't gouge the money for necessities out of others.

We are friends with a couple who do actually fit that first sentence perfectly, but they are actually very nice and have been eager to help us out with things, so at least I have one counter example.  Example; we were going to rent a power washer to clean up our house before selling it, the guy brought one of his over for us to borrow.  A tree fell on our yard, he brought one of his chain saws over to help cut it up, and actually did a lot of the work.  You may see one of their problems from my repeated use of "one of", despite near bankruptcy on more than one occasion last I knew he had 3 generators in different sizes, 2 arc welders, 4 older cars he was fixing up. . .   They hate to say no to each other on purchases, and have said they try not to think about their finances because they are too depressing. 

So despite the fact that they are both very bright, they just can't seem to get their financial act together.  We were hoping we could convince them to let us put a budget together for them, but we moved out of state and don't see them much now. 

DW and I are fortunate that our parents were financially responsible, and all our siblings are financially responsible, so the only thing I would have told my recently departed Dad was that he could easily afford newer than 40 year old sheets for the guest bed, and maybe even newer than 40 year old beds and some other updating, so that the house would be inhabitable and his kids would be more willing to visit.  He was a little too Mustachian in some ways, you really shouldn't re-use aluminum foil in the toaster oven for more than a week.  At least he did spend money on traveling, which he enjoyed. 
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: better late on January 12, 2017, 05:59:41 PM
Dad:
Stop trying to get rich fast; You are 80 years old. Stop with margin calls for money you don't have. Just stop.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Exflyboy on January 13, 2017, 12:17:47 AM
Dad:
Stop trying to get rich fast; You are 80 years old. Stop with margin calls for money you don't have. Just stop.

OMG you have got to be kidding me
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Paul der Krake on January 13, 2017, 12:58:23 AM
My parents have done extremely well for themselves, yet I will most likely retire before them (and they didn't have me at 16 or something).

I don't foresee any conflict or resentment, just surprise followed by the sound of pieces clicking together.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Playing with Fire UK on January 13, 2017, 01:14:59 AM
I wish my in-laws would understand that it isn't generosity when you run out of money, sob and borrow the money from one child and then give away gifts or charity donations.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: better late on January 13, 2017, 04:02:08 PM
Dad:
Stop trying to get rich fast; You are 80 years old. Stop with margin calls for money you don't have. Just stop.

OMG you have got to be kidding me



Not kidding. Last time I visited he got a margin call and was in a horrible mood for the remainder of my visit (which I manage to make once, maybe twice a year)
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Laura Ingalls on January 14, 2017, 07:46:40 PM
My mom is very mustacheian but her loyalty to"her" Edward Jones guy drives me nuts.  Mom do you realize you give this idiot 2% every year to lag the market (in her case ~$20k) when could be in low cost funds.  In other words you could fund college for your grandkids not this schmucks kids.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: LeRainDrop on January 14, 2017, 08:35:50 PM
Eric:  I know your hearts in the right place about your Dad having a cat but a pet can be so important as you age. I am 62 and as you age your friends start to die, your spouse may be gone and for some older people a animal might be the only thing they touch on a regular basis that is alive.  We have 4 old dogs and as they die we will only have 1 dog so when we die it will not be burden for my son to take 1. I grieve terribly when one dies but it would be worse to not have 1 pet.  When I was a social worker we would actually encourage older people to get another pet for the company. At our age we still have lots of friends, social contacts but by the time my Mom reached her 80's she had outlived all her friends.

Totally agree with Cassie.  There have been lots of studies showing that having a pet to care for can help to keep an older person mentally sharp, give them a sense of purpose, reduce the likelihood of depression, etc.  Obviously at some point, an older person may no longer be able to care for himself or a pet, but as long as the child is keeping a good eye on the parent's condition, this should be caught around the right time.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: prettypaperwork on January 14, 2017, 08:38:36 PM
To my mom who I love dearly:

Please do not ask me for money so you can entertain out of town guests (I agreed to split costs with her and possibly one other sibling so they could do tourist-y theme park trips) and in the same conversation tell me I am cheap because I don't want to spend the money to attend my nephew's 16th birthday party 400+ miles away.  She told me I need to live a little (in my head, i thought if I am going to spend money on a trip, it's going to be someplace fun for me not my teenage nephew's bday party.  I know, I am a bit of a poohole.  I know what I want).  Seriously, he will be 16 and I am pretty sure he'd be happier with $50 from his cranky aunt than his cranky aunt at his party.

I did tell her that and reminded her again that I contribute monthly to his and his three siblings' 529 accounts, that I do give money when she asks for money for x, y and z, that I have a budget and I am sticking to it.  And she needs to lay off the calling me cheap sh*t because I'm not.

To my dad:

STOP BUYING SH*T YOU DO NOT NEED AND STOP CHARGING THOSE THINGS ON YOUR CREDIT CARDS AND PAY YOUR F$&@ING BILLS LIKE A GROWNUP!!!

I haven't said that to him because he is a mega backdoor poohole  and can't take feedback.

Thank you for starting this thread.  I really needed to get that out.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: PawPrint53 on January 15, 2017, 03:13:50 PM
I guess I'd tell my Dad that I wish he wouldn't have stopped my mother from traveling. They had the money, and my sisters and I didn't need an inheritance. Also, I'd tell him that he should have maintained the house instead of letting it go to pieces. In a way, his behavior was unmustachian.

Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Kitsunegari on January 21, 2017, 10:04:12 PM
Dad:
Stop trying to get rich fast; You are 80 years old.

Well is unlikely to get rich slowly by now, isn't it?
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: alewpanda on January 25, 2017, 08:07:04 AM
FIL:  Thank God you are semi-capable. Its also great that you have some retirement and are satisfied to live your modest life of fishing and biking after you are done working.  Maybe you should consider cutting back on the cigarettes and beer so you live that long......Also, thanks for being the only parent supportive of us leaving town and not coming back.

MIL: Please.  Stop. Spending. Please consider learning to be an adult. Stop buying cigarettes so you can buy food.  Stop signing rent-to-own leases for tvs and furniture while we worry about whether or not you have health insurance and needed prescriptions.  I know you will never be able to "choose" to retire.  I know that you will be forced to retire due to health someday and will be alone in your drafty, too-big apartment, living on cigarettes and SS.......*sob*

Mom: You can clean out the hoards.....and I don't need to keep my way to big house for your once a year visits.  I will downsize and pay for a hotel room for you.....

Dad: You do alright for yourself.  You learned some hard lessons.  But I still don't understand your refusal to do anything yourself (and insistence on paying someone else to do things as simple as painting a room), your need to buy a 1,000.00 TV,  the and yo-yo of enabling and then criticizing of my sister (can't have it both ways.....).  Also, you can stop worrying...we learned our money lessons a lot earlier in life than you guys did.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Kaybee on January 25, 2017, 09:55:10 AM
Mom:  I realize you had an unhappy childhood where "niceties" were scarce.  That doesn't mean you need to buy EVERYTHING now.  Nobody is impressed with the amount of decorative (and non-decorative) crap you keep around the house.  You also need to learn about money.  Whining to me that you think Dad has screwed up the finances doesn't earn you any sympathy when YOU are the shopper and simply switch to a different CC when the first CC is declined on a purchase.

Dad:  I know you feel guilty about your affairs and letting Mom spend whatever she wants helps assuage that feeling of guilt but you're in trouble (early 60s, almost no retirement funds) and need to stop now.  Stop calling me, asking to borrow money so you can "transfer investments" and then scream at me when I suggest that requiring $20k to "transfer investments" doesn't sound legit.  I lent, and lost, enough money to you as a teenager and in my early 20s...the Bank of Daughter is now closed.

Both of them:  Stop nagging at me to visit you all the time.  Stop chiding me and telling me I'm a skinflint.  Stop asking me for advice, only to stop speaking to me for months when you don't like my response.  Stop complaining about me to your other kids (younger brother is like me and more or less avoids our parents but much younger sister is very much like mom and thinks we should help her more...sister obviously can't because of her CC debt!)  I don't care that we're related by blood...genetics mean very little to me if I'm not being treated with respect.

To Mustachians:  Yes, I've seen about a million therapists. *tears out hair*
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Exflyboy on January 27, 2017, 01:08:18 AM
Heck for that matter just put it on deposit with an outfit like Dime bank who currently pay 1.1% AND all funds are FDIC insured!

Cost is free and it can't be stolen...
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Morning Glory on February 07, 2017, 07:04:01 AM
Mom: Stop buying cars. Her old car was perfectly fine, she lives 1 mile from work and stepdad is retired, yet they have an SUV and a truck with payments. (Her excuse: well, I can't retire for 2 years anyway because pension blah blah blah). Complains about her job all the time and how she would like to travel more, move someplace warmer, etc. Also just spent 20k on a kitchen remodel. Wants me to buy a new car because I need something "safer". Face palm.  Also stop giving me all your sentimental clutter.

Dad: seems to be doing well except refuses to invest because he doesn't want to fund socially/ environmentally irresponsible things that companies do. Keeps all his money in a checking account. Complains about his job all the time too. Sigh.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: SpareChange on February 07, 2017, 08:38:36 AM
Mom and dad: Pleeeease get out of debt, and stay out. Having 18k in CC debt when you are 71 and 68 is ridiculous (just learned this last week). Did you not learn anything from when I was a kid and those nasty collectors were calling us 4 or 5 times a day?
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Just Joe on February 08, 2017, 08:00:51 AM
To all of our elders: stop watching so much darn TV! There are other things in life besides FoxNews and made-for-TV movies. Get up and move. Go for a walk. The aches and pains are from sitting all the time. Go some place. Read a book. You're going to be permanently attached to the couch cushions soon.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Dave1442397 on February 08, 2017, 09:21:48 AM
To all of our elders: stop watching so much darn TV! There are other things in life besides FoxNews and made-for-TV movies. Get up and move. Go for a walk. The aches and pains are from sitting all the time. Go some place. Read a book. You're going to be permanently attached to the couch cushions soon.

OMG, yes! My MIL (87) has Fox News running constantly. She's constantly locking us out of the house when she's here because "someone might break in", and when our daughter announces that she's going to a friend's house we get the "she might be kidnapped" line. I often wish she'd read a book or something, as she wanders around the house like a ghost when she's not watching Fox News.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Vindicated on February 08, 2017, 11:33:37 AM
This is one of the best posts I've read through!  It's helped me greatly in formulating my thoughts on my parents, and how their future is going to affect mine.

Dad - You've overcome a lot (years of drug addiction) to get to where you are now, but the backbreaking manual labor is wearing you out.  You're 59 now, and don't know when you'll be able to retire!?!?  Living paycheck-to-paycheck has worked for you so far because you've maintained your health.  I'm terrified for when you can't continue.  You've said that you'll get a pension in a few years, and with that and social security you and Mom will be fine.  But when I asked how much your pension will be, you had no idea!  You need to make a plan, and I'm happy to help.  Also, one year of your life insurance premiums would be more than enough to pay for a funeral.  Just save that money, and stop throwing it away.

Mom - Quit drinking.  Like, seriously.  You've had far too many serious health scares related to alcoholism, and you've seen this exact scenario play out before.  Both of your older brothers, your Mom and your Dad, all died for reasons directly related to alcoholism.  One or two drinks won't hurt?? Of course it does!!  Also, get a job.  You can't stand for long periods any more because you STOPPED STANDING EVER!!  You complain about not having money, and that Dad doesn't do enough around the house, but he's working 50+hr weeks EVERY WEEK!  He still makes dinner every time I'm over there visiting.  You sit on the couch and nap, sipping on drinks throughout the day.  I'm thankful that Dad does so much for you, but what happens when he can't anymore?  And quit trying to get disability benefits.  They're going to keep turning you down.  You're not disabled.  You're a lazy alcoholic.

MIL - You've been "renting" your sister's home for a decade, paying her less than the mortgage.  She's truly a wonderful Sister, and I know she's happy to help you.  Now, you buy a new car right after you've paid yours off, and you plan to retire this summer.  If you have the money for this new car, and the money to retire this summer, why are you ripping your sister off?  Oh, you're going to travel after you retire, so your sister can sell the house.  Great!  Wait... where are you planning to live when you run out of travel funds???  We don't have an extra room...

FIL & Wife - Thank you for offering to pay $4k towards our wedding.  I really wish you'd have actually paid half of that, so I didn't have to get an extra credit card a month before the wedding to pay for the things you said you were going to.  I guess it made it a bit more difficult when you had just spend $15k on your own wedding a year earlier.  Also, you really could use a car more fuel efficient than your monster truck.  Especially considering that you drive hundreds of miles each week.  Your new house is beautiful.  I hope it's cost reasonably matches your budget.

I kind of feel bad writing about my in-laws, because I obviously don't know their financial habits as well as I know my own parent's.  Who knows, the in-laws could have nest eggs that I don't know about.

I'm actually going to my parent's house tonight for dinner, since DW has dinner plans with one of her friends.  I'm going to show them my budget and plan for paying off debts.  Hopefully my Dad will let me make a plan for them.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Playing with Fire UK on February 08, 2017, 11:49:53 AM
I'm actually going to my parent's house tonight for dinner, since DW has dinner plans with one of her friends.  I'm going to show them my budget and plan for paying off debts.  Hopefully my Dad will let me make a plan for them.

Danger Alert: My guess is they suggest ways you can use your extra income to help them.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Vindicated on February 08, 2017, 11:56:25 AM
I'm actually going to my parent's house tonight for dinner, since DW has dinner plans with one of her friends.  I'm going to show them my budget and plan for paying off debts.  Hopefully my Dad will let me make a plan for them.

Danger Alert: My guess is they suggest ways you can use your extra income to help them.

Luckily (unluckily) I don't have any extra income, since I'm paying off the wedding debt on credit cards, and have $60k in student loans.  I'm hoping that they realize that they WON'T be able to count on me helping them, and will be motivated to get their finances sorted.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Playing with Fire UK on February 08, 2017, 12:11:10 PM
I'm actually going to my parent's house tonight for dinner, since DW has dinner plans with one of her friends.  I'm going to show them my budget and plan for paying off debts.  Hopefully my Dad will let me make a plan for them.

Danger Alert: My guess is they suggest ways you can use your extra income to help them.

Luckily (unluckily) I don't have any extra income, since I'm paying off the wedding debt on credit cards, and have $60k in student loans.  I'm hoping that they realize that they WON'T be able to count on me helping them, and will be motivated to get their finances sorted.

Excellent. Unalert.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Kaydedid on February 23, 2017, 06:25:07 AM
MIL- There's a big difference between reducing annoyances and something that actually makes you happy.  If the things you desire and scheme for don't make you happy after a week or two, maybe they weren't worth it?

FIL-No, investing in the stock market isn't 'gambling', unless you're buying penny stocks (which you do).  If society collapses, gold isn't going to be worth anything, basics like food and medicine will.  Muslims are not part of a ravening horde bent on destroying Western civilization.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Kitsune on February 23, 2017, 09:47:38 AM
MIL- There's a big difference between reducing annoyances and something that actually makes you happy.  If the things you desire and scheme for don't make you happy after a week or two, maybe they weren't worth it?

FIL-No, investing in the stock market isn't 'gambling', unless you're buying penny stocks (which you do).  If society collapses, gold isn't going to be worth anything, basics like food and medicine will.  Muslims are not part of a ravening horde bent on destroying Western civilization.

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... Considering that, historically, Muslims built up most of what is now considered to be Western civilization... yeah. Left to their own devices European Christians would have torched everything related to science, technology, education, and medicine, and god help them with getting out of the middle ages after THAT happened.

[MOD NOTE: I'll put a note here, since I put one on the more difficult post further down.  We need to get the sweeping generalizations under control here.  There was only a short period of scientific decline in Middle Ages Europe:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_science_in_the_Middle_Ages
]
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: RetiredAt63 on February 24, 2017, 09:59:43 AM
... Considering that, historically, Muslims built up most of what is now considered to be Western civilization... yeah. Left to their own devices European Christians would have torched everything related to science, technology, education, and medicine, and god help them with getting out of the middle ages after THAT happened.

That explains a lot.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Just Joe on February 24, 2017, 11:54:05 AM
Well, I'm pretty sure that a couple of my elders were actually participated in the Middle Ages... That explains their obsession with Muslims and Fox News.

One of them went to school during the stone age and rode a dinosaur uphill both ways until it began snowing. Then they had to walk through that snow uphill both ways b/c the dinosaur went extinct.

Edited: changed "s" to "ed"
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: ringer707 on February 24, 2017, 01:22:43 PM
Mom: I am not buying an AWD SUV for the two days a year that there is snow on the ground here. My work always closes without fail when it snows anyways. I'll actually be buying a smaller car after this one goes.

Dad: Please divorce your wife. You make decent money and she's spending it on pills and MLM schemes.

ETA: Mom and Dad are divorced and remarried :)
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Abundant life on February 24, 2017, 07:32:24 PM
Muslims are not part of a ravening horde bent on destroying Western civilization.

Perhaps it should be '(most) Muslims are not part of a ravening horde bent on destroying Western civilization'?

Really? 9/11, Isis, Christians beheaded on the beach in Syria, 'Death to America'? Even if these extreme measures do not succeed, Muslim birth rates in the west exceed the rest of the population whose birth rates are decreasing.

Many Muslims do not like the freedom afforded by Western civilisation (try converting from Islam to another religion or coming out).


[MOD NOTE:  We don't need this kind of sweeping generalization about any religion, race or other grouping.  Thank you.]

Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Ayanka on February 25, 2017, 03:52:05 AM
The followers of ISIS are not muslims :).
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: SweetLife on February 25, 2017, 03:15:27 PM
Mom, I am sad that you didn't bother to teach me about money when I was young ... maybe I wouldn't have made such bad decisions about it young. I have no idea why you let me think you were broke all those years when I had nothing and would buy you food to be sure you ate. I have no idea why you loved my brother more than me or the other kids, that made me sad, but I learned to deal with it and all the rest. I wish you would have sold the stupid farm years ago so we wouldn't have to be dealing with it all right now. But I also understand it was something you bought and kept though my alcoholic abusive a@@hole of a dad tried to sell it out from under you. I am proud of the way you lived and I loved you so very much. And though there are some things I didn't like and wish you had done differently I would  care about any of it if you were still around to talk to!!! Miss you and I'm doing OK thanks to MMM !!! You'll see once the farm is sold the money will be used to pay off the last of my little debts and invested for my retirement and your grandson's future :)

That felt great!! Thanks guys for the opportunity to get that off my chest. Better than therapy!
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Abundant life on February 25, 2017, 06:53:00 PM
Quote
[MOD NOTE:  We don't need this kind of sweeping generalization about any religion, race or other grouping.  Thank you.]

Quote
[MOD NOTE: I'll put a note here, since I put one on the more difficult post further down.  We need to get the sweeping generalizations under control here.  There was only a short period of scientific decline in Middle Ages Europe:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_science_in_the_Middle_Ages]

Dear Moderator, thank you for your attempt to be even-handed. I agree with the sentiments expressed here, although I find it odd that the sweeping generalisations that prompted my post in the first place about European Christians are ignored?

I will desist from further 'difficult postings' on this topic.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Ayanka on February 26, 2017, 01:35:56 AM
Abundant life:

I live in a country where the Muslim population from different countries is the second biggest minority group. The biggest minority group is the Wallonians, who historically have lived here. Yes, there are tensions. See the attacks on the airport of Brussels, the Bataclan in Paris the Christmas market in Germany... But the moment we lose the broader view and stop understanding that it is not all Muslims or all Christians or all whatever, we lose something valuable. If we give people less chances because they belong to a certain group you don't only punish the bad people but also the good. Do we have an integration problem inhere? Yes, absolutely and it should be a top priority. But not only for them but for all of us. If they are in a bad situation people are a lot more susceptible for options they otherwise wouldn't have chosen. And that isn't only true for Muslims but also a partial explanation for some of the more past and recent election results.
I can understand you struggle with accepting people who are so different of which their peers have made such bad choices. But sadly hating them isn't going to make things better. It is only going to make the problem worse.

The USA has 2% of the USA population according to my quick internet search. We have 3 times as much, though the number is a grip of air due to not registration laws after the 2nd WW. And no offense being both European and Christian, but saying there have been made some fairly poor decisions in the middle ages is kicking in an open door. Please note though that because of the copying of the monks, the abbeys in the middle ages were the centers of knowledge. Or please keep a broader view, there is more than black and white.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: SweetLife on February 26, 2017, 05:20:34 AM
Back on Topic Mustachians this topic is about What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents ... talk politics somewhere else please.

Thank you!
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Just Joe on February 26, 2017, 07:50:19 AM
Many Muslims do not like the freedom afforded by Western civilisation (try converting from Islam to another religion or coming out).[/s]

NAH! Just get your life in order and leave. Don't tell anyone. Plenty of good people and good places to land yourself among.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: HappierAtHome on February 26, 2017, 05:00:43 PM
Back on topic:

I wish I could get through to one of my parents that there's no point comparing our lives and finances now to the lives and finances of the upper middle class thirty years ago - because thirty years ago our family was white trash on welfare, and it's thanks a) hard fucking work on the part of my siblings and me, and b) inherent privilege (white, attractive, good brains) that we've dragged ourselves up out of that.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Sibley on March 06, 2017, 09:58:08 AM
Mom, dad, thank you for giving me access to your finances. Unfortunately, you're in bad shape and there will be hard decisions in the future.

You're living paycheck to paycheck and paying $12 a month to the bank for a checking account. We need to fix this. Which means I'm researching banks and deciding what's best then recommending it.

I'm not going to even discuss the grocery and restaurant expenses. I'm well aware of the cause and there's nothing I can do right now (total is about $600 per month for 2 people, in LCOL). I choose to pick a different battle. Like the bank. Not the smoking, because if I haven't won that one by now, it'll take a lifestyle upheaval to win.

Also, apparently I need to talk to mom to find out what the hell caused a $12k credit card balance when last year you told my sister you'd paid off all debt except house and car. And I'm pretty sure you know that credit card balances are debt.

Dad, you're being evaluated to determine if you're still safe to drive (hint: we're pretty sure the answer is no). No, it's not an option. Yes, it sucks and we'll be happy to teach you how to use Uber and Lyft if necessary. But this also means that the chances of you driving all over the east coast in May is pretty much zero. Sorry, but mom also doesn't want to do that. You'll live. You're both welcome to come visit me instead. Dementia sucks.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Exflyboy on March 08, 2017, 01:02:10 PM
Mom, dad, thank you for giving me access to your finances. Unfortunately, you're in bad shape and there will be hard decisions in the future.

You're living paycheck to paycheck and paying $12 a month to the bank for a checking account. We need to fix this. Which means I'm researching banks and deciding what's best then recommending it.

I'm not going to even discuss the grocery and restaurant expenses. I'm well aware of the cause and there's nothing I can do right now (total is about $600 per month for 2 people, in LCOL). I choose to pick a different battle. Like the bank. Not the smoking, because if I haven't won that one by now, it'll take a lifestyle upheaval to win.

Also, apparently I need to talk to mom to find out what the hell caused a $12k credit card balance when last year you told my sister you'd paid off all debt except house and car. And I'm pretty sure you know that credit card balances are debt.

Dad, you're being evaluated to determine if you're still safe to drive (hint: we're pretty sure the answer is no). No, it's not an option. Yes, it sucks and we'll be happy to teach you how to use Uber and Lyft if necessary. But this also means that the chances of you driving all over the east coast in May is pretty much zero. Sorry, but mom also doesn't want to do that. You'll live. You're both welcome to come visit me instead. Dementia sucks.

Sorry to hear about your Dad.. That does suck..:(
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: DTaggart on March 08, 2017, 02:17:10 PM
Dad, I spend about $32k a year. I don't need $3 million to retire.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: shelivesthedream on March 08, 2017, 03:58:52 PM
(Cat-sat for my parents overnight. Had forgotten how bad it was. Now remember in excruciating detail.)

Mum and Dad, STOP BUYING SHIT. And, more urgently, when you buy new shit, THROW THE OLD SHIT AWAY.

I remember when you got those cups. They have literally never been used. Zero times. Why the fuck do you still have them after ten years? Even after you redid the kitchen - you made a cupboard space for the never-used cups.

You have books on environmental policy from the 19fucking70s. PILES OF THEM. You have furniture stacked up to hold all the books you will NEVER READ AGAIN.

Why the ever loving fuck do you have copies of magazines from the early nineties to the present day under your bed? Have you ever looked at them again? And what's with keeping newspapers so you can "finish reading them when you have time"? Newsflash: you will never have time to read the backlog of newspapers from cover to cover.

OMG you have two wardrobes in the guest rooms full of your old clothes. Why are they not at the charity shop? You could then throw the wardrobes away and have room to fucking move.

Why did you buy an American fridge when it's just the two of you now? And cooking is such a chore for both of you. You are NOT green, you buy everything from fucking supermarkets and then throw half of it away because it goes off, so don't give me no eco holier than thou shit. You are both massive middle class consumers. Your house is full of crap but you have no friends. Your values are totally backwards. Or rather, your ACTUAL values as evidenced by what you DO, not your pretend values espoused by what you say. You are the exact people who are killing the environment.

When you die, I'm giving my brother two weeks to collect anything he wants and then I am hiring an estate clearance firm to take every last piece of crap away. No, I don't want any of it - because my husband and I HAVE OUR OWN STUFF. I fantasise about setting fire to your house because it's the only way you will ever did yourselves of the burden you have created.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Dave1442397 on March 08, 2017, 07:10:44 PM
Why the ever loving fuck do you have copies of magazines from the early nineties to the present day under your bed? Have you ever looked at them again? And what's with keeping newspapers so you can "finish reading them when you have time"? Newsflash: you will never have time to read the backlog of newspapers from cover to cover.

When you die, I'm giving my brother two weeks to collect anything he wants and then I am hiring an estate clearance firm to take every last piece of crap away.

A friend's mother died and left a similar pile of periodicals and newspapers scattered around the house, plus thousands of books (she was a college professor). They were starting to stack stuff up to throw it out, but then money started falling out from between pages. By the time (many months later) they had gone through the whole house page by page, so to speak, they had found cash and bank books to the tune of over $500,000.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Miss Piggy on March 08, 2017, 07:18:10 PM
(Cat-sat for my parents overnight. Had forgotten how bad it was. Now remember in excruciating detail.)

Mum and Dad, STOP BUYING SHIT. And, more urgently, when you buy new shit, THROW THE OLD SHIT AWAY.

I remember when you got those cups. They have literally never been used. Zero times. Why the fuck do you still have them after ten years? Even after you redid the kitchen - you made a cupboard space for the never-used cups.

You have books on environmental policy from the 19fucking70s. PILES OF THEM. You have furniture stacked up to hold all the books you will NEVER READ AGAIN.

Why the ever loving fuck do you have copies of magazines from the early nineties to the present day under your bed? Have you ever looked at them again? And what's with keeping newspapers so you can "finish reading them when you have time"? Newsflash: you will never have time to read the backlog of newspapers from cover to cover.

OMG you have two wardrobes in the guest rooms full of your old clothes. Why are they not at the charity shop? You could then throw the wardrobes away and have room to fucking move.

Why did you buy an American fridge when it's just the two of you now? And cooking is such a chore for both of you. You are NOT green, you buy everything from fucking supermarkets and then throw half of it away because it goes off, so don't give me no eco holier than thou shit. You are both massive middle class consumers. Your house is full of crap but you have no friends. Your values are totally backwards. Or rather, your ACTUAL values as evidenced by what you DO, not your pretend values espoused by what you say. You are the exact people who are killing the environment.

When you die, I'm giving my brother two weeks to collect anything he wants and then I am hiring an estate clearance firm to take every last piece of crap away. No, I don't want any of it - because my husband and I HAVE OUR OWN STUFF. I fantasise about setting fire to your house because it's the only way you will ever did yourselves of the burden you have created.

Damn. Was that cathartic for you?

(Now, please excuse me while I go find some clothing, books, and magazines to get rid of. I'm suddenly feeling very gross.)
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: druth on March 08, 2017, 09:06:29 PM
MIL and FIL: If you stopped with the scams and schemes and the get rich quick shit you would have gotten rich slow and been retired now!

They aren't consumer suckers really, they just funnel ridiculous amounts of money into scams.  They are on their 3rd and 4th scams(two at once!) in the four years I've known them, and after the first and second ones where they didn't listen to anybody(the entire family knew they were obvious scams) I've decided they are beyond help and that that's what social security is for.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: shelivesthedream on March 09, 2017, 01:53:15 AM
Many words.

Damn. Was that cathartic for you?

(Now, please excuse me while I go find some clothing, books, and magazines to get rid of. I'm suddenly feeling very gross.)

Very cathartic - I feel lighter now. Stupidest bit is, my mother has a borderline hoarder friend who's really messy and she tells me about her and how she has clothes all over her floor and whatever. But my mother can't see that just because it's stacked neatly in a cupboard, doesn't mean it's not borderline hoarding.  They could remove half of everything in that house and still have an abundance of stuff. My brother has picked up the tendency to keep everything (messily, to boot) but I have slowly-accumulate-and-then-PURGE-PURGE-PURGE tendencies. I'm working on both sides of that...

The thing that really kills me is the eco shit. My mother was a Greenpeace activist in her twenties and is now a dedicated Green Party volunteer. But the amount of SHIT in that house could keep four or five families in stuff, easily. (Clothes, crockery, books, you name it. Children's toys (we're both grown up), old computers in the attic, a coat rack sagging with coats that haven't seen the light of day for years... ARGH!) She acts like she's such a fancypants green person, but what she's really doing is just switching her BUYING OF SHIT to "green" companies. HOW CAN SHE NOT SEE WHAT UTTER HYPOCRISY THIS IS?! How fucking dare she tell me to vote Green because the planet is going down the tubes when *I* am the one who is buying unpackaged food from local shops and being mostly vegetarian and making an effort not to buy PEPPERS in FEBRUARY. Voting Green ain't worth shit if you have the exact same plastic-packaged diet year-round.

Library at the bottom of the road (which they do use) - still buying dozens of books and DVDs a year
Weekly farmers market and local produce shop in walking distance - still getting everything delivered from a supermarket (both retired, so not like they don't have the time...)
Both retired - still have piles of totally redundant paperwork from their old jobs in filing cabinets
Each have a home office with a computer and high-speed internet - still get newspaper delivered every day (see newsflash in previous post) and still print out stuff for no fucking reason (and then keep the printouts forever)
Mother's gardening hobby - buys expensive potted plants from the garden centre and won't try growing fruits or vegetables
Dress like functional leisure-rich adults in the 21st Century - still have hideous 1980s power suits hanging around
Have wardrobes full of perfectly adequate clothes - order piles of new stuff from catalogues (yes, paper catalogues which they have delivered and then keep)
Don't own a functional cassette player - still own cassette tapes (and probably have the broken player hidden somewhere)
Won't fly to go on holiday - won't catch the bus to the train station

Amazingly, the one thing they haven't bought is an electric bike, despite talking about it for a decade. It's probably too late now, but they could have got a lot of use out of one if they'd bought one maybe five years ago.

Having thought through it, there is literally one thing in the entire house I would want to inherit. A small unfolding card table, which they inherited from my great-aunt. Which, to be honest, they might as well get rid of now because all it's doing is holding a pot plant and getting in the fucking way EVERY SINGLE TIME they want to draw the curtains. ARGH. FUCK. And it's not like they don't have the money to pay someone to come and sort stuff out or take it away. If they ever thought of it, they probably wouldn't do it because they're too ashamed, but equally they won't do anything about it themselves. And they sure as hell would never take advice from me, even if they asked for it. And I feel like the corner is turning now and their physical health will only go downhill from now on so soon they'll be too old to life stuff themselves and all hope will be lost forever until my brother and I are called upon to clean the place out.

OK, sorry, seems like I wasn't done. :) But it's only now I've left home that I can actually look at it all with fresh eyes and see the MOUNTAIN OF WASTE and CHOKING PILES OF CRAP. And every time I go back I'm horrified again.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Vindicated on March 09, 2017, 06:12:19 AM
Yeah... I think I might need to go clean some things out myself after reading all of that!  I'm pretty minimalist, but this makes me want to be more so.

Thanks for sharing your story, SLTD!
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: merula on March 09, 2017, 07:57:49 AM
shelievesthedream, your parents sound like my in-laws. My husband and BIL agree, worst environmentalists in the world. Tons of stuff and always buying more, reading books on being green but never actually doing it. Buying "all-natural organic" frozen meals that come with massive amounts of packaging.

I had never noticed until you mentioned it, but they ALSO do they "buy potted plants from the garden rather than seeds or edibles" thing. In fact, one time my MIL bought a potted perennial and asked my 2 y/o to help her plant it. Well, he broke the stalk off. She was going to THROW THE WHOLE THING AWAY. I planted the root ball with my son (so he could "fix" his mistake); lo and behold, the plant grew back. This was amazing; I must be a master gardener for realizing that a perennial can grow from roots.

They live ~0.5 miles away. They never walk it; always drive. And MIL bought an SUV, because the 4 times a year she drives my children in her car, it was "too hard" to get the car seats in.

But my favorite is when I get home to find that she's brought over four disposable cups from the large coffee chain, PLUS packaged snacks for everyone. AAARGH!
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: shelivesthedream on March 09, 2017, 08:42:57 AM
shelievesthedream, your parents sound like my in-laws. My husband and BIL agree, worst environmentalists in the world. Tons of stuff and always buying more, reading books on being green but never actually doing it. Buying "all-natural organic" frozen meals that come with massive amounts of packaging.

I had never noticed until you mentioned it, but they ALSO do they "buy potted plants from the garden rather than seeds or edibles" thing. In fact, one time my MIL bought a potted perennial and asked my 2 y/o to help her plant it. Well, he broke the stalk off. She was going to THROW THE WHOLE THING AWAY. I planted the root ball with my son (so he could "fix" his mistake); lo and behold, the plant grew back. This was amazing; I must be a master gardener for realizing that a perennial can grow from roots.

They live ~0.5 miles away. They never walk it; always drive. And MIL bought an SUV, because the 4 times a year she drives my children in her car, it was "too hard" to get the car seats in.

But my favorite is when I get home to find that she's brought over four disposable cups from the large coffee chain, PLUS packaged snacks for everyone. AAARGH!

That made me laugh! I only noticed it recently myself because my husband and I are about to get a garden and are planning out what low-effort herbs, fruits and vegetables we can slot in, and what low-maintenance perennial plants/bulbs we can get or even grow from seed or cuttings. I am not about to buy a plastic tray full of stupid fucking annuals.

It's my mother who is so totally blinkered when it comes to being green. She pats herself on the back endlessly for being really into the environment but just cannot see all the totally mainstream stuff she does. No one has to be perfect (I'm certainly not!) but at least don't pretend to yourself that you are! She'll do green stuff as long as it's 100% convenient. (E.g. choosing organic packaged out-of-season vegetables rather than conventionally grown ones.) As soon as it's the tiniest bit of effort, it's like the option doesn't even exist or it's just such a huge unreasonable chore/burden that no one could ever expect her to do it. Can you tell that hypocrisy is the character trait I despise the most?!

But they have enough money that it's no hardship to switch their consumerism to the "green" option, even if it's more expensive. So no reason to change, eh?
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: ransom132 on March 09, 2017, 08:49:50 AM
My parents are so broke, they have lots of debts which they won't even tell me the number, they have a car that breaks down every single day (well it feels like it). I would tell them to ditch the car, take the bus and cut their expenses to the bone... I mean they have so much channels and yet they don't need all those channels. I have already voiced my opinion on a few things in the past, but there is nothing to do, they think because I am younger that I have no clue how money works. My goal is to build so much stash that I can get them out of it one day and at the sametime have enough for me to be FI. In the meantime, I will be saving money and giving them some to help them out.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: merula on March 09, 2017, 10:05:11 AM
I must be a master gardener for realizing that a perennial can grow from roots.


That made me laugh! I only noticed it recently myself because my husband and I are about to get a garden and are planning out what low-effort herbs, fruits and vegetables we can slot in, and what low-maintenance perennial plants/bulbs we can get or even grow from seed or cuttings. I am not about to buy a plastic tray full of stupid fucking annuals.

I wasn't sure it'd grow back. I guessed it probably would, but thought that the chance of that, plus the opportunity to teach mistake-fixing to my kid, PLUS the fact that even if it didn't, BURYING ORGANIC MATTER IS HELPFUL IN A GARDEN, made the effort worthwhile.

But they have enough money that it's no hardship to switch their consumerism to the "green" option, even if it's more expensive. So no reason to change, eh?

I have no idea what my in-laws' financial status is. My FIL has a good job that he loves, but my MIL and BIL both have a lot of health issues, and there's a lot of outpatient support going to BIL. God help me if there's any expectation that we pick up said support; nothing has been mentioned.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Aelias on March 09, 2017, 01:47:05 PM
Dear MIL,

First--given the circumstances you faced, you did a damn good job raising your sons.  Really.  I know there were times money was tight, but you made it work.  You provided a safe and loving home, paid their way through Catholic school and private college, and only later did they realize they'd been through some lean times.

Now, things are good.  You no longer need to scrimp and save.  I fully support you doing whatever you want with your money.  Hey, slot machines aren't my thing, but you seem to enjoy it and you're not ruining your life with it. So, have fun.

But please, please, please STOP smothering us with the constant excess.  The buying so much food when you come over that we have to freeze it all and spend months eating it.  The mountains of noisy, plastic crap you buy for the kids.  The candy for every holiday.  It's too much. We don't need it.  We don't want it. 

Most of the time, I let it slide. Because I know you're trying to show us your love. But it feels like you don't respect our values. 

We'd rather just spend time with you.  Our kids are lucky to have so many people who love them, but the result is that we are constantly purging toys, and receiving a gift stops being a joyful experience.  A single small gift at Christmas and on birthdays is plenty.  Want to give more? Two words: COLLEGE FUND.

Love,
Your son's wife, mother of your grandchildren



Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Miss Piggy on March 09, 2017, 06:10:23 PM
Having thought through it, there is literally one thing in the entire house I would want to inherit. A small unfolding card table, which they inherited from my great-aunt. Which, to be honest, they might as well get rid of now because all it's doing is holding a pot plant and getting in the fucking way EVERY SINGLE TIME they want to draw the curtains. ARGH. FUCK.

Huh. Which do you want--the table or the pot plant?  ;)
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: shelivesthedream on March 10, 2017, 03:24:12 AM
Having thought through it, there is literally one thing in the entire house I would want to inherit. A small unfolding card table, which they inherited from my great-aunt. Which, to be honest, they might as well get rid of now because all it's doing is holding a pot plant and getting in the fucking way EVERY SINGLE TIME they want to draw the curtains. ARGH. FUCK.

Huh. Which do you want--the table or the pot plant?  ;)

AND ANOTHER THING-- just kidding :) But seriously, my intense hatred of pot plants is born out of my mothers desire to have several in every room, creating MORE CLUTTER.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: dixonge on March 10, 2017, 03:39:10 AM


Having thought through it, there is literally one thing in the entire house I would want to inherit. A small unfolding card table, which they inherited from my great-aunt. Which, to be honest, they might as well get rid of now because all it's doing is holding a pot plant and getting in the fucking way EVERY SINGLE TIME they want to draw the curtains. ARGH. FUCK.

Huh. Which do you want--the table or the pot plant?  ;)

AND ANOTHER THING-- just kidding :) But seriously, my intense hatred of pot plants is born out of my mothers desire to have several in every room, creating MORE CLUTTER.

A house full of pot? Your childhood must have been interesting... :)

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Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: dixonge on March 10, 2017, 03:57:50 AM
My parents. Their early choices set them on a course they were unable to adjust to. My father was a Baptist pastor and my mom was a 'housewife' even through she was certified to teach school. Until I graduated high school we lived on that one pastor salary. Had they chosen to be frugal we probably would have been fine. Instead they used credit and the generosity of strangers to skate by. After I went to college my Mom began teaching, so my brother got six years of expanded budget and reduced expenses.

When they were in their 70's I began helping with their budget, usually just getting them better one-year deals on TV/phone/internet bundles. My Dad worked until he was 80, putting in 35+ hours while being paid for 30. The church where he was pastor to senior citizens finally made a deal in order to officially retire him. A collection was taken up to retire his remaining debt. So he lost that paycheck and lost the debt payments, which left him at still very near breakeven each month. They occasionally borrowed money to meet monthly bills or extraordinary expenses.

They are now in an assisted living facility courtesy of their pensions, Social Security and a Veteran's assistance program. Without the latter, they would have been forced to find rather 'iffy' facilities. As it is, they are in a nice place which is an upgrade to their older mobile home.

Their experience has provided many lessons, mostly in what *not* to do. My brother and I have avoided the potholes for the most part, choosing professions that paid well and 'marrying up' in every sense of the word. His wife is inheriting the family business which she runs, and my wife's court reporting provided a salary that doubled mine and that will provide 3/4 of our pension income.

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Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: little_miss_giggles on March 10, 2017, 01:08:09 PM


Having thought through it, there is literally one thing in the entire house I would want to inherit. A small unfolding card table, which they inherited from my great-aunt. Which, to be honest, they might as well get rid of now because all it's doing is holding a pot plant and getting in the fucking way EVERY SINGLE TIME they want to draw the curtains. ARGH. FUCK.

Huh. Which do you want--the table or the pot plant?  ;)

AND ANOTHER THING-- just kidding :) But seriously, my intense hatred of pot plants is born out of my mothers desire to have several in every room, creating MORE CLUTTER.

A house full of pot? Your childhood must have been interesting... :)

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In other countries potted plants are called pot plants. 
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: dixonge on March 10, 2017, 01:16:13 PM


Having thought through it, there is literally one thing in the entire house I would want to inherit. A small unfolding card table, which they inherited from my great-aunt. Which, to be honest, they might as well get rid of now because all it's doing is holding a pot plant and getting in the fucking way EVERY SINGLE TIME they want to draw the curtains. ARGH. FUCK.

Huh. Which do you want--the table or the pot plant?  ;)

AND ANOTHER THING-- just kidding :) But seriously, my intense hatred of pot plants is born out of my mothers desire to have several in every room, creating MORE CLUTTER.

A house full of pot? Your childhood must have been interesting... :)

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In other countries potted plants are called pot plants.
I liked my version better lol. Just having some fun with word play :)

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Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Cassie on March 10, 2017, 01:59:21 PM
 It's funny how stuff you grew up with still can bug people:)) Every spring I buy 5 potted plants that only last a season and enjoy them on my patio for about 5 months. I buy them at Walmart so pretty cheap. We do have other plants in our yard that come up every year.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: merula on March 13, 2017, 08:47:42 AM
The pot plant/potted plant debacle inspired me and an English friend to come up with phrases that are completely innocent in one dialect and completely inappropriate in another.

Winners: "My gran gave me chew and a pot plant." "These pants show off my fanny."
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on March 13, 2017, 09:36:16 AM
The pot plant/potted plant debacle inspired me and an English friend to come up with phrases that are completely innocent in one dialect and completely inappropriate in another.

Winners: "My gran gave me chew and a pot plant." "These pants show off my fanny."

"Have a little snort with us, will you?"
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Sibley on March 14, 2017, 11:09:17 AM
Mom, dad, thank you for giving me access to your finances. Unfortunately, you're in bad shape and there will be hard decisions in the future.

You're living paycheck to paycheck and paying $12 a month to the bank for a checking account. We need to fix this. Which means I'm researching banks and deciding what's best then recommending it.

I'm not going to even discuss the grocery and restaurant expenses. I'm well aware of the cause and there's nothing I can do right now (total is about $600 per month for 2 people, in LCOL). I choose to pick a different battle. Like the bank. Not the smoking, because if I haven't won that one by now, it'll take a lifestyle upheaval to win.

Also, apparently I need to talk to mom to find out what the hell caused a $12k credit card balance when last year you told my sister you'd paid off all debt except house and car. And I'm pretty sure you know that credit card balances are debt.

Dad, you're being evaluated to determine if you're still safe to drive (hint: we're pretty sure the answer is no). No, it's not an option. Yes, it sucks and we'll be happy to teach you how to use Uber and Lyft if necessary. But this also means that the chances of you driving all over the east coast in May is pretty much zero. Sorry, but mom also doesn't want to do that. You'll live. You're both welcome to come visit me instead. Dementia sucks.

Sorry to hear about your Dad.. That does suck..:(

It does suck.

Have recommended Huntington Bank for them, and I might switch to them eventually myself. Still haven't asked about the credit card, dad's been home every time I call and I think I need to get mom alone. But it also has a 16% interest rate, so will also be getting them to transfer that balance to something else. I suspect that I'll be going there in April and basically doing all this stuff for them, because I don't think they're capable.

And they are flying to the east coast, rather than driving, for my sister's graduation. Damn, my sister is GOOD at manipulation. I was on the phone and I still don't know how she did it.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: AlanStache on March 14, 2017, 01:16:32 PM
Parental unit and I have fairly good communication, but there are still areas I wish were addressed; the first being a lack of pot:-)
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: MgoSam on March 14, 2017, 02:05:24 PM
The pot plant/potted plant debacle inspired me and an English friend to come up with phrases that are completely innocent in one dialect and completely inappropriate in another.

Winners: "My gran gave me chew and a pot plant." "These pants show off my fanny."

"Have a little snort with us, will you?"

In India they apparently refer to an eraser as a "rubber" when conversing in English. It is a very frequently used joke in comedies (at least from what I remember growing up).
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: jinga nation on March 15, 2017, 06:09:34 AM
The pot plant/potted plant debacle inspired me and an English friend to come up with phrases that are completely innocent in one dialect and completely inappropriate in another.

Winners: "My gran gave me chew and a pot plant." "These pants show off my fanny."

"Have a little snort with us, will you?"

In India they apparently refer to an eraser as a "rubber" when conversing in English. It is a very frequently used joke in comedies (at least from what I remember growing up).
Actually rubber is the common term for eraser in English-speaking countries/Commonwealth.
When my dad moved to the US (after I did), he worked at an HMO. One day he asked me why everyone laughs when he asks if anyone has a rubber he can borrow to correct some penciled-in checklists.
My brother and I laughed, then looked at each other. You tell him. No, YOU tell him!
We still ask my dad if he needs a rubber.
Some kids will always be assholes.

Back on topic: My parents are mustachian so I have nothing to contribute to this thread. No fake news, no alternative facts. Sad!
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: TOgirl on March 21, 2017, 07:24:48 AM
Dear In-laws,

Sell your way too big and expensive house. You can't afford it. Move to a cheap condo and pay off all your debts.

FIL, you should have saved money for retirement. Or even figured out how much your pension and old age benefits would be, before just retiring "because I'm 65 and not working anymore"....

MIL, you should have kept your job 10 years ago, when they informed you the office was moving 30min further away. You should not have quit and pretended that you were retired. Especially without running the numbers. Especially when you then needed to get another job...which pays half of what your old job paid, with no benefits or pension...that is in the exact location that you quit over...

You should stop enabling your adult children (not DH and I) and force them out. They don't contribute, and they have full time jobs.

Maybe also consider not buying my kids crap all the time. They don't need it. They do want you to pay attention to them and play with them. They know you don't do either.

Lastly, maybe pay your utility bills. Seeing unpaid bills on your counter stresses me out. Especially when I know they've been unpaid for a few months.

Ok, ok....also, please don't make comments about why you have so many expenses and blame them on your son. "well, I have to work because he didn't make the major leagues (MLB) like friends' son did, so I have to pay for my own things" and then stare at me like I should offer to pay your bills. You are a grown up. You do have to pay for your own things.

Sincerely,

A fed up DIL who is not going to let you live in my basement.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: infogoon on March 21, 2017, 11:25:51 AM
You know the only reason you were able to retire early and still have health insurance was because of that ROTTEN, TERRIBLE, DIRTY UN-AMERICAN SOCIALIST Obamacare, right?

Why would you vote so proudly for the guy who can't wait to pull it out from under you?

Whatever. At least if you have to go back to work you won't be melding with the couch and watching Fox News all day any more.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Playing with Fire UK on March 21, 2017, 11:27:39 AM
Dear In-laws,

Sell your way too big and expensive house. You can't afford it. Move to a cheap condo and pay off all your debts.
...
A fed up DIL who is not going to let you live in my basement.

My story except with a side helping of: you know you have negative equity. Please stop offering to 'give' us the house like it is a favour. You are asking us to take over your debt.

Even if we wanted a rental house four hours away from where we live we wouldn't choose to rent to people who don't pay their bills. Stop telling your child that this is a savvy investment for them. It is not and I think you know that. You are clutching at straws because you want to live in a house that you can't afford.

You are a grown up. You do have to pay for your own things.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Rubyvroom on March 21, 2017, 12:12:52 PM
Oh sweet Jeebus, here goes...

In-laws, please stop telling your kids that education is not important and it's "normal" to have a level of credit card debt at all times in life. The level of de-programming that had to take place for your older adult children when they moved out came at a high cost of screwed up credit scores and financial burdens that they are only now digging out of. Also, stop making references to apparent dick-bags at your work with their "fancy degrees." I have a fancy degree. Many people have fancy degrees. Also, file your goddamn taxes. You probably get refunds every year! File them!!! You are literally leaving money on the table... that could be used to pay down your credit card debt. Also know that we still love you and, like people planning to have kids, we are planning on having parents... meaning, we try to leave ourselves options wherever possible to help you out of an inevitable jam. We know you have saved nothing. Literally nothing. You are starting to realize this yourselves, even, given the awkward conversations about IRAs we had at the last family gathering. We are absolutely more than willing to help you navigate this area of life that you are just now starting to think about. Please, please, keep thinking about it. And jfc, pay off the credit cards. When we say "no gifts" at Xmas, we flippin mean it.

Step mother, stop spending my dad's money. Your "arrangement" to stop working because it caused you both stress for meager amounts of money makes sense on the surface and I truly support that ideology. HOWEVER, that does not mean that you, as the stay at home mother of 2 poorly behaved dogs and 3 cats get to increase your apparent status in life by buying all the fancy shit you never had and my dad never wanted. He is a man of simple pleasures. He'd eat KFC and watch Star Trek every night and be thoroughly satisfied with that lifestyle. Step mother, you once bought me a box of 9 "designer" chocolates for Xmas. I later looked it up online and that box costed $75. WHY does something like that even EXIST in this world... ok it existing is not your fault, but for the love of all that's holy STOP BUYING OVERPRICED USELESS SHIT. I dread the day I have to clean out the house of all the belongings. Yes we all notice that the house decorations change monthly, but frankly we all wonder why that seems so important to you. Someday I will be tasked with throwing all that garbage away. Thanks for that /golfclap. You've easily added 10 additional working years to my dad's life. If/when his health starts to suffer as a result of being overworked to maintain this new lifestyle you've become so obsessive about, I hope you have the wherewithal to understand the very active role you've played in diminishing his enjoyment in life.

Dad, wtf. I do truly hope she makes you happy and you have this all worked out in some kind of master plan. I have to believe that things will work out for you two. If I have to bury you while you're still working I'm going to fucking let her have it.

Mom, the ex-drug addict, ex-convict, in an unending state of recovery. You somehow manage to hold down a good job and are independent and you spend FAR less than you earn. Who knew you'd turn out ok. You had a rough start, but damn it all, keep it up.


*heavenly singing*
And then the clouds parted and I felt as satisfied as I did when watching John Oliver blow up the gigantic 2016 a few months ago.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Miss Piggy on March 22, 2017, 02:38:36 PM
Dad, wtf. I do truly hope she makes you happy and you have this all worked out in some kind of master plan. I have to believe that things will work out for you two. If I have to bury you while you're still working I'm going to fucking let her have it.
^ That makes me really sad.

Mom, the ex-drug addict, ex-convict, in an unending state of recovery. You somehow manage to hold down a good job and are independent and you spend FAR less than you earn. Who knew you'd turn out ok. You had a rough start, but damn it all, keep it up.
^But THIS makes me smile. GO, MOM!
(It also gives me a bit of hope for the addict in our family.)
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Playing with Fire UK on May 20, 2017, 05:55:02 AM
Dear In-laws,

Sell your way too big and expensive house. You can't afford it. Move to a cheap condo and pay off all your debts.
...
A fed up DIL who is not going to let you live in my basement.

My story except with a side helping of: you know you have negative equity. Please stop offering to 'give' us the house like it is a favour. You are asking us to take over your debt.

Even if we wanted a rental house four hours away from where we live we wouldn't choose to rent to people who don't pay their bills. Stop telling your child that this is a savvy investment for them. It is not and I think you know that. You are clutching at straws because you want to live in a house that you can't afford.

You are a grown up. You do have to pay for your own things.

I have an update to this over in the Journals here (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/playing-with-fire-is-getting-burned/). Tales of woe are offered and advice sought.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: starjay on May 20, 2017, 09:05:34 PM
Dear future MIL, who I love dearly but also want to throttle. You're well into your 60s. You can barely pay the minimums on your debt, your current life plan is to work until you're not capable of working anymore and then your kids take care of you. WHY. Why continuously prioritize concerts, clothes, and parties over getting your shit straight? I know you're stressed over money and cashflow and your financial future. We've had that conversation multiple times. You're proud of me (if bewildered by it) for clawing my way out of debt. 

Ugh. No, I did NOT need to see Rock n' Roll legend live in concert. No, you did not need to buy we four "kids" tickets to Rock Legend's concert this summer. I know this set you back probably $700-$800. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK? We all said no to buying tickets to the concert because of the ticket price and our relative states of being broke and/or fiscally responsible. We were all okay with not going. But not you. No, you decided for us. I appreciate  the generosity of spirit, but not the shitty decision making that's behind it.

And now we get to hear about how you can't afford basic maintenance of your home. Which, you know, you could actually fucking afford if you'd take one year off of concerts and clothes hoarding. Hell, if you'd sell some of your EXCESSIVE AMOUNT OF CLOTHING AND SHOES you could fund some of the needed house maintenance. But no, no adjustment to your behavior is needed. You're fine. You're just going to work until you can't work anymore, and we'll be the ones caring for you, with no resources from you to help.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Apples on May 22, 2017, 08:29:07 AM
Dear future MIL, who I love dearly but also want to throttle. You're well into your 60s. You can barely pay the minimums on your debt, your current life plan is to work until you're not capable of working anymore and then your kids take care of you. WHY. Why continuously prioritize concerts, clothes, and parties over getting your shit straight? I know you're stressed over money and cashflow and your financial future. We've had that conversation multiple times. You're proud of me (if bewildered by it) for clawing my way out of debt. 

Ugh. No, I did NOT need to see Rock n' Roll legend live in concert. No, you did not need to buy we four "kids" tickets to Rock Legend's concert this summer. I know this set you back probably $700-$800. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK? We all said no to buying tickets to the concert because of the ticket price and our relative states of being broke and/or fiscally responsible. We were all okay with not going. But not you. No, you decided for us. I appreciate  the generosity of spirit, but not the shitty decision making that's behind it.

And now we get to hear about how you can't afford basic maintenance of your home. Which, you know, you could actually fucking afford if you'd take one year off of concerts and clothes hoarding. Hell, if you'd sell some of your EXCESSIVE AMOUNT OF CLOTHING AND SHOES you could fund some of the needed house maintenance. But no, no adjustment to your behavior is needed. You're fine. You're just going to work until you can't work anymore, and we'll be the ones caring for you, with no resources from you to help.

I think my MIL and your MIL might be friends.  My MIL isn't quite as far gone as this, but definitely the same pattern.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: starjay on May 25, 2017, 12:02:07 PM
Dear future MIL, who I love dearly but also want to throttle. You're well into your 60s. You can barely pay the minimums on your debt, your current life plan is to work until you're not capable of working anymore and then your kids take care of you. WHY. Why continuously prioritize concerts, clothes, and parties over getting your shit straight? I know you're stressed over money and cashflow and your financial future. We've had that conversation multiple times. You're proud of me (if bewildered by it) for clawing my way out of debt. 

Ugh. No, I did NOT need to see Rock n' Roll legend live in concert. No, you did not need to buy we four "kids" tickets to Rock Legend's concert this summer. I know this set you back probably $700-$800. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK? We all said no to buying tickets to the concert because of the ticket price and our relative states of being broke and/or fiscally responsible. We were all okay with not going. But not you. No, you decided for us. I appreciate  the generosity of spirit, but not the shitty decision making that's behind it.

And now we get to hear about how you can't afford basic maintenance of your home. Which, you know, you could actually fucking afford if you'd take one year off of concerts and clothes hoarding. Hell, if you'd sell some of your EXCESSIVE AMOUNT OF CLOTHING AND SHOES you could fund some of the needed house maintenance. But no, no adjustment to your behavior is needed. You're fine. You're just going to work until you can't work anymore, and we'll be the ones caring for you, with no resources from you to help.

I think my MIL and your MIL might be friends.  My MIL isn't quite as far gone as this, but definitely the same pattern.

I hope your MIL doesn't/hasn't put herself in the same financial position as mine. She's a lovely human being, and I could do much, much worse for a MIL. I feel mildly guilty about venting here, but it's the safest place to do so, since pretty much everyone I know IRL knows her, and I don't want to share her financial business with folks who actually know her/will run into her at parties and gatherings. As much as I love her, I find her financial decision-making abilities endlessly frustrating.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: JanetJackson on July 24, 2017, 10:54:53 AM
Dear mom and dad.
Please move out of extremely rural Ohio.... Or tweak your planning a bit...

They've clung to the house that we grew up in, for what I can only imagine are sentimental reasons.  The house is maybe 115-120yrs old and built into a hill; my 70 year old father still push mows the hill (this gives me a heart attack every time I hear about it) and stacks bricks to even out his 35 year old ladder in order to clean the gutters.  They're very very mustachian and bought the house for 28k in 1975 (ish, maybe earlier) and made it a safe home for us over the years, but they would have had so many more options (my dad only knew how to operate one type of metal machine, so he worked at the same shop with multiple lay offs for 30+ years -- my mother drove an hour each way to be basically an administrative assistant and they JUST FIRED HER after she'd been there for over 20 years, is 9 months from retirement, and had to take medical leave to have a tumor removed) .... or at least they would now, if they took a chance and moved away.

They're now both retired and the house is honestly kind of falling apart.  They could sell it for maybe... 60k and get a rancher somewhere with milder winters.  My dad has SO MUCH anxiety related to change... And they are so so so frugal, I don't know if they'll do it until someone gets hurt. :(  My mom still washes plastic bags, they just got AC a few years ago, and my dad is always on some kind of money saving venture, but miserable about it. 
They have no friends and complain constantly about the "country" mindsets of their neighbors...

  All they ever do is complain about how they were poor and how they're still poor... and recount stories of the jobs they hated.  I want them to realize some level of success in their mustachianism - I want them to find a better balance.  It doesn't have to be about obsessive sacrifice... it's ok for mom to buy work out pants (omg she wants to exercise outside but won't because she only has one "fitness outfit" that is a pair of my dads old boxers and a ripped up Toronto t-shirt, but she's freaking out about spending $20 on a tank top and pair of stretchy pants).... SIGHHHHHHHHHHH



Also my dad has a 1950's Chevy Bel Air and got it for like $1500 when I was a kid.  He's been laid off many times, they've had to take over my grandparents medical fees, etc. etc.  and he's listed it on Ebay three or four times but closed the auction every time.  I get it, he's never had anything "nice" besides this car (my mom came from an average family, but my dad was quite poor... like eat squirrels/small birds poor), and it has significant value now... and he loves taking my mom for a ride in it once or twice a year... but gosh.... We were on food stamps a large portion of my childhood.... Maybe sell it?  He thinks it has more growing value than any investment he could make with the money...
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: MustachiansWitness on July 24, 2017, 02:23:50 PM

MIL, you should have kept your job 10 years ago, when they informed you the office was moving 30min further away.


Well everything that followed this sentence sounds pretty bad, but quitting a job because the office moves 30 minutes away, and I'm assuming you mean 30 minutes away by car, was a Mustachian move on her part. Unless they were going to help pay for her relocation, employers need to be taught that it is not ok to expect their employees to suddenly start spending tens of thousands of dollars a year on excessive commuting by car and continue to be loyal worker drones.

Perhaps in some circumstances it would make more sense to rent a nearby apartment on a short term basis while looking for a new job though.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: mamagoose on July 24, 2017, 02:34:43 PM
Dear Mama,

Please put away the cigarettes and sweet tea. Also, please don't buy me or my kid extravagant Christmas and birthday gifts, because we know you work double shifts at a restaurant that treats you like dirt to pay for your shopping addiction. Finally, please stay single, stop marrying jerks that treat you like an indentured servant and are terrible stepdads, and go back to school so you can get your dream job running a preschool. Let me pay for your college.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Chesleygirl on July 24, 2017, 06:59:19 PM
My Dad and his wife both have car payments. Both in their 70s. They have spent all their money on vacations, nice things, addictive behaviors. Now they are flat broke. They know I have come into some money and of course, have asked about getting some of it. No. Just no.   Once I receive the bulk of an inheritance (next year) I'm using it mostly to fund my IRA, college savings plans for my kids, what's left over will be put into emergency savings funds. I'm not giving money to irresponsible people so they can keep spending like drunken sailors.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Sibley on July 25, 2017, 11:41:13 AM
This one is new...

Mom, I understand that dad has dementia. I understand that it's hard to live with him. I understand he drives you up the wall sometimes. I get it.

But. You can't run away and garden at my house forever. I don't mind you visiting, I don't mind you gardening. But there will come a time when you CAN NOT leave dad alone. It would be helpful if you could figure out how to cope before that happens.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Fudge102 on July 25, 2017, 12:28:26 PM
Dear Aunt,

You really can't find the money to come to my wedding and spend time with family at the venue?  Your three children are all grown up and out of college.  They don't need you to pay for them.  You have a second home up north and five cars.  You can stop going there every weekend.  You can stop driving the motor boat around while you're there.  You can stop going out to eat all the time.  You can stop buying each person 1000 Christmas presents.  Or since you've never worked a day in your life and have always been a stay home mom, you can go out and get a job.  Even just two months at minimum wage would be more than enough to cover the cost of everyone that you don't need to pay for in the first place.  Oh and do I need to remind you that the second you found out about this, your first thought was, "maybe we can all stay there for an entire week and make a get away of all this."  I'm not asking for a week, just a weekend.  You are the most visibly wealthy in our family.  Don't tell me that I don't know how to budget.  There is a difference between budgeting and spending.  You are choosing to spend everything on your immediate children and ignoring the rest of us and then blaming us when you have to, "shoulder the burden."

That felt good.  I wish she could actually hear that and not go all drama queen.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Cassie on July 25, 2017, 12:36:16 PM
Sibley, please let your Mom escape while she still can. My Mom went through this with my Dad and escaped as much as she could before she was tied down. Being a caregiver is a terrible burden and people need to get some sanity. When she is stuck home she will cope for awhile, then his needs will become overwhelming and he will need to go to a home.  He will stay up all night and sleep during day, wear diapers, etc. A few years ago a good friend of mine got it early in her 50's and when her DH's cancer got so bad he could not care for her or himself I had to  put her in a home. Give your Mom a hug for me:))
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Sibley on July 25, 2017, 08:11:12 PM
Sibley, please let your Mom escape while she still can. My Mom went through this with my Dad and escaped as much as she could before she was tied down. Being a caregiver is a terrible burden and people need to get some sanity. When she is stuck home she will cope for awhile, then his needs will become overwhelming and he will need to go to a home.  He will stay up all night and sleep during day, wear diapers, etc. A few years ago a good friend of mine got it early in her 50's and when her DH's cancer got so bad he could not care for her or himself I had to  put her in a home. Give your Mom a hug for me:))

Oh, I know. And I do. She's here now actually for a few days. But she doesn't have any sort of coping mechanism, and its becoming a problem. She has no friends, no support aside from her daughters, and we have our own emotions and lives to cope with. We can't be her therapist. We've suggested and asked that she see a therapist, even just a few times, but she won't.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Cassie on July 26, 2017, 03:12:38 PM
Yes your Mom needs her own friends and life. My Mom always had her own friends and I do too. YOu can't expect your kids to be your social life.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: stealthwealth on July 26, 2017, 04:06:08 PM
Mom and Dad - You let your experience with a couple bad renters twenty years ago turn your investment property into a tax drain and neighborhood eyesore.  In the meantime it could have generated at least another $300k in rent rather than costing yourselves money to not rent the units out.  No one is going to sweep in and buy out the neighborhood and pay you 150% what the property is currently worth.  Your 40 year old AC unit that is probably operating at SEER 8 costs $300+ a month in the summer while mine costs $120.  Replace it with even a low end model and you'll pay for it in 3 or 4 years.  Your refrigerator is stocked full of name brand items that taste no different than generics, which easily costs you $50 a week in food costs. 
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Poundwise on July 26, 2017, 04:50:35 PM
MIL-- I know you're bored now that you are retired, but could you find another hobby besides buying houses & filling them up with crap?  Isn't 4 houses enough for two people?  Have you ever thought about giving back to the community?
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: shelivesthedream on July 27, 2017, 01:44:15 AM
MIL-- I know you're bored now that you are retired, but could you find another hobby besides buying houses & filling them up with crap?  Isn't 4 houses enough for two people?  Have you ever thought about giving back to the community?

When I read about parents whose hobby is buying discounted crap and forcing it on their children, I often think wistfully about how great it would be if the impulse could be directed somewhere useful. Buying food and toiletries on sale and giving to a food bank, buying children's clothes and toys to be given to orphanages or hospital wards, buying professional clothing on sale to give to homeless jobseekers...
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Poundwise on July 27, 2017, 08:35:33 AM
Absolutely, SLTD!  My own mother is the type who will give the (designer) shirt off her own back to any of her own children or grandchildren, and helps extended family begrudgingly but generously, but she doesn't seem interested in sharing with the world at large.  MIL is not notably generous to her own family, apart from her toy dogs, so I don't expect her to develop a social conscience any time soon. Interestingly, both women grew up poor (and MIL grew up partially in a foster home, without a normal family life), so I guess this represents an inability to turn off behaviors that helped them when they were in the acquisition stage.

The best we can do is to realize that we will probably be spending a few years going through their hoards when the time comes, and donating what we can.  What a waste of time, money, and life.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: zephyr911 on July 27, 2017, 08:40:14 AM
Wish I could tell mom to move somewhere she can actually afford to live, but I had to wait for her to come up with that on her own. Thankfully, she has mentioned it a couple of times in recent months, and (for better or worse) there is a real chance she will cut her COL by 50% or more by moving near us within a year.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Britan on July 27, 2017, 01:58:05 PM
My dad and my in-laws are not Mustachian, but have sense enough (and money enough) to retire really comfortably. My dad might even retire "early" (before 60).

But my mother? Maybe something like:
"Maaaybe the reason I still seem chilly towards you is because you told me not to transfer to an affordable college because you'd pay, then when my 50k tuition came due, proceeded to say you 'didn't have enough money' to pay it even though you got a bunch of money in the divorce, because you had just bought your *second* *new* *50k* *BMW* to add to your first *new* *BWM* *convertible* because you "needed a car that could fit 3+ people", as if there aren't cars under 50k that seat 5? And of course you couldn't sell the convertible, you really like it."

And that, kids, is the short story of how I finished college with 80k in student loans.

To her credit, she bought both BMWs in cash I think? On the other hand.... priorities.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: MustachioedPistachio on July 27, 2017, 02:15:18 PM
On the other hand.... priorities.

And I thought my parents were bad...

When I was 16, they offered me their late-90s SUV for "a great deal" of $5,000. Of course, being naive and way too goddamn trusting, I took it.

Fast-forward a couple of years. I hit a deer on the way home - totals the SUV. Fortunately, I had full coverage that I had been paying for in high school. Once the insurance finally settled up, I was informed by the insurance agent that 100% of the proceeds went to a title loan company to pay off a loan. I confronted my folks and they informed me that the money from the loan was used to adopt my little sister, so "it's ok."

...hm. Thanks mom and dad. Oh, and fuck you.

"Hey, can you guys help me with some school supplies this semester?"
"Oh sorry hun, we just don't have the money," they respond while relaxing in the new outdoor hot tub.

Priorities.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Britan on July 27, 2017, 10:55:24 PM
Priorities.
Right?! And it's not even the priorities, people's priorities are allowed to be whatever. But its the lying about their priorities and then when they break promises, instead of apologizing for putting you in a. bad spot, expecting you to have sympathy for how "poor" they are and still prioritize *them* because they *would* prioritize you *if only* they had the money.

I tried to enroll in state school (like a sensible person) *three separate times* and was told each time "No, your education is my priority, I'll pay for it. Take out a loan I'll pay it back." And even after all that if she just said "I goofed. Sorry I spent my money on random stuff and can't pay it off" or even like "keeping my promise to you is not my priority" like, whatever. Her priorities are allowed to be her fancy luxuries. But then don't expect me to prioritize you and have this happy wonderful mother/daughter relationship where I'd do anything for you?

Though this is not the only example of her promising something to someone financially, purchasing a luxurious Thing for the exact amount she promised, and then breaking her promise and *expecting sympathy* from the person she just broke that promise to, because isn't it so sad that she "has no money". She did it to all of her kids in turn for college, and she even tried to do it to me again when I got married and when I bought a house. I think it's pathological or something.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: stylesjl on July 28, 2017, 03:05:38 AM
Priorities.
Right?! And it's not even the priorities, people's priorities are allowed to be whatever. But its the lying about their priorities and then when they break promises, instead of apologizing for putting you in a. bad spot, expecting you to have sympathy for how "poor" they are and still prioritize *them* because they *would* prioritize you *if only* they had the money.

I tried to enroll in state school (like a sensible person) *three separate times* and was told each time "No, your education is my priority, I'll pay for it. Take out a loan I'll pay it back." And even after all that if she just said "I goofed. Sorry I spent my money on random stuff and can't pay it off" or even like "keeping my promise to you is not my priority" like, whatever. Her priorities are allowed to be her fancy luxuries. But then don't expect me to prioritize you and have this happy wonderful mother/daughter relationship where I'd do anything for you?

Though this is not the only example of her promising something to someone financially, purchasing a luxurious Thing for the exact amount she promised, and then breaking her promise and *expecting sympathy* from the person she just broke that promise to, because isn't it so sad that she "has no money". She did it to all of her kids in turn for college, and she even tried to do it to me again when I got married and when I bought a house. I think it's pathological or something.
Probably a form of narcissism, someone wants the benefit of appearing virtuous and generous without having to actually commit the sacrifice (curtail luxuries) that such generosity implies, and it appears to have worked over and over again without any real bad consequences for the narcissist, so why not keep doing it?
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Britan on July 28, 2017, 09:11:44 AM
Hah, I do have many stories that are more appropriate for r/raisedbynarcissists than MMM.

I mean, she's my mom, so I'm not gonna slow-fade out on her like I would if she wasn't family. I just don't spend time with her that I don't have to, trust every promise to be broken,  and keep the chill-level at "smiling with mouth not eyes". She is baffled as to why, but when anyone tells her, she doubles down on the victim card, so I don't try to reason with her anymore.  Life's too short to make it my problem. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Britan on July 28, 2017, 09:24:05 AM
Oh but I'll add an anecdote from my dad, who is actually great and financially responsible but does have some face-palm worthy moments.

He buys a new electric car 2 years ago and gets a nice big rebate. Charging stations at work are free so he pays 0 in fuel.

Now he complains "I shouldn't have bought this electric, the charging stations are all full by 6am at work so I actually have to pay to charge it at home!"

Me, knowing it is cheaper than what he spent on gas before: "Yeah, but how does that compare to what you spent on gas before?"

"Well, wel, but the  stupid thing is only worth $14k now"

Uh, yeah dad, it depreciated. Like, you know, *every new car ever*?

Face. Palm.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: snowball on July 28, 2017, 09:39:24 AM
There's no point in confronting narcissists;  they aren't capable of seeing the flaws within themselves.  They're always justified in anything they do.

I just have no contact with my narcissistic parents, and haven't for years - they're not worth it.  I'm sure they have no idea why they don't hear from me.  But I know, and that's enough.  It does give me a certain sense of cosmic justice to know that at least there is *some* consequence for their behaviour, even if they'll never understand it (or care that much, but again, it's something).

Yeah, I too have a lot of stories I could tell of...priorities.  :/
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: MustachioedPistachio on July 28, 2017, 02:59:15 PM
Hah, I do have many stories that are more appropriate for r/raisedbynarcissists than MMM.

There's no point in confronting narcissists;  they aren't capable of seeing the flaws within themselves.  They're always justified in anything they do.

Diiiiiitttttooooo. For cathartic purposes only. Britan, I definitely 100% feel the "smile with my mouth not my eyes". Snowball, I am strongly leaning this way...the clincher though is my two little (adopted) sisters. :(
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: snowball on July 29, 2017, 01:31:14 AM
Snowball, I am strongly leaning this way...the clincher though is my two little (adopted) sisters. :(

I get that.  My siblings are grown adults - the youngest is 30 - so a relationship with them doesn't require me to have a relationship with my parents.  Otherwise I would have waited until my siblings were independent before cutting my parents off.

Sadly, I don't/can't have a relationship with all three of my siblings;  my older brother simply doesn't want to, and you can't *make* someone want to be your family, or be the only one who ever puts any effort into it.  I wrote him off before my parents, because it was like beating my head against a wall for years (and that was deliberate on his part; towards the end, he came right out and told me that he didn't want a close relationship with me unless I lost weight...like my mother, he is very focused on outward appearances.  And pretty sexist - he doesn't care so much if guys are overweight, but as a woman, I'm supposed to adhere to society's ultra-thin ideal, in order for him not to be ashamed of me.  So, you know.  Screw him.)

My sister is a very different story, and we have both tried hard to build a healthier relationship with each other as adults, which is still a work in progress, but I'm happy with where we are.  My younger brother is...damaged a lot by his upbringing, I think, and really bad at communicating (mostly doesn't answer his phone, doesn't reply to emails very often), but I still care about him and hope he manages to get his shit together someday.  (He was living on the streets for a month or so last summer.  Now he's working part-time for my sister.  I still feel he's precariously perched above the abyss, but maybe the trendline is good.  I'm pretty sure he's not doing drugs, but I know there are mental health issues there that he isn't getting treated.)

Your little sisters are lucky to have you, and I'm glad you're making an effort to stay in their lives.  It could make a big difference for them in the long run.  I know I would have given a lot as a young person to have a responsible adult in my life who cared about me.

Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Catbert on July 29, 2017, 12:00:50 PM
I just wanted to say that after working my way through 260 posts this is the single saddest thread on the entire forum. 

Hugs to all of you.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Fomerly known as something on July 29, 2017, 03:22:49 PM
MIL-- I know you're bored now that you are retired, but could you find another hobby besides buying houses & filling them up with crap?  Isn't 4 houses enough for two people?  Have you ever thought about giving back to the community?

When I read about parents whose hobby is buying discounted crap and forcing it on their children, I often think wistfully about how great it would be if the impulse could be directed somewhere useful. Buying food and toiletries on sale and giving to a food bank, buying children's clothes and toys to be given to orphanages or hospital wards, buying professional clothing on sale to give to homeless jobseekers...

Thankfully, my Mom does use this outlet.  She shops the Spring sales for children's winter coats and boots.  She works on getting bath towels for practically nothing and donates the items to her church food and clothing pantry.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Poundwise on July 29, 2017, 03:52:30 PM
That's wonderful!! I wish more were like your mother.  Actually, there are a lot of lovely older folks in our church who do just that.  I just wrote in frustration because MIL was discussing buying another house. That would actually be her 6th property. I forgot that she bought the house next to one of her weekend houses and knocked it down to get a bigger yard. She does rent out one house. 

I guess the hopeful thing to take away from this thread is that hopefully the new generation has learned lessons from the old, so there is improvement.  Unless in 20 years we see a "Mr Maxi Mustache" forum where adult kids complain about their skinflint parents.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Kaydedid on August 05, 2017, 07:42:22 PM
MIL-- I know you're bored now that you are retired, but could you find another hobby besides buying houses &amp; filling them up with crap?  Isn't 4 houses enough for two people?  Have you ever thought about giving back to the community?

When I read about parents whose hobby is buying discounted crap and forcing it on their children, I often think wistfully about how great it would be if the impulse could be directed somewhere useful. Buying food and toiletries on sale and giving to a food bank, buying children's clothes and toys to be given to orphanages or hospital wards, buying professional clothing on sale to give to homeless jobseekers...
My mom and MIL do this.  They love shopping, especially for children's clothing, and find great deals.  I've spent maybe $10 on my son's clothes in the last 2 years.  They even ask about sizes and what he needs!  Incredibly generous and very appreciated.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: sufjork on August 06, 2017, 02:41:11 PM
I was on the phone with my mom a few days ago. She has made a series of poor financial decisions throughout her life, doesn't save money, and doesn't have a retirement plan (she's 63). We were talking about money and she said, "You're so good with money. I don't know where you learned it from - you didn't learn it from me!" (She's at least aware that she's bad with money, but doesn't do that much to try and change.)

I just kinda went, "hahaha...yep." I really had to bite my tongue from saying: "Well, I did learn it from you...I learned what not to do."
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: fluffmuffin on August 07, 2017, 01:43:06 PM
Dad, I care a lot less about getting an inheritance than I do about you having a reasonable quality of life and the ability to enjoy the years that you have left on this planet. You're about to turn 75 and you still work constantly. I know, it's hard to step back when you literally live at your business. I know the phone is always ringing. I know people are always stopping by. But you don't have to answer the phone or let someone popping in derail your day, so that you feel like you never have enough time to take care of the important, large-scale decisions that would let you make a meaningful change in your life.

I will help you with that, if you want, but I will not help you plug the holes that are keeping the ship afloat right now. It hurts me to see how much that hurts you, but your lifestyle right now is not sustainable. You say that you don't enjoy the hustle anymore, and Dad, you have hustled harder than 99% of the d-bags in rap songs for the entire time that I've been alive. You have earned the right to take a step back and not be so incredibly stressed about money every day of your life.

I'm proud of you for putting the farm on the market--but you've priced it so high that no one is ever going to buy it, unless your county does a complete 180 on zoning and land regulation. There are too many rich, influential people who want to preserve the status quo right now for that to happen anytime soon. Do you really think you can still be doing this for the 10-20 years it will take for the zoning to come around? Just fucking sell it to get out from under the mortgage payments that you say are killing you. If you sold it, you would still almost certainly be able to carve out a parcel with a house on it. No, not the parcel you say you want, where you'd have to clear out forest and build a new cabin--the parcel that already has a small house and a small barn, with a small, income-producing apartment above it. (Also, you now own an RV, so you don’t even need land anymore.)

Even with the zoning, you can sell it for enough to clear the mortgage and have a cushion. So put it on the market for a non-magical number, clear your $20k in credit card debt (that you have from keeping the farm afloat and your congenital inability to save for emergencies), and live on social security and your $30,000/year pension.

In conclusion, sell the fucking farm.


Thanks for the space to vent. I've re-read this thread a few times and it's been really cathartic. I'm visiting the farm this weekend and bracing myself for emotional turmoil, since my dad just turned another year older without making any progress on...anything. Also, shoutout to the mom (parent are long-since divorced) for being the OG frugality rock star and enjoying the fuck out of her well-earned, cushy retirement lifestyle of fancy gym classes and lunch with the ladies.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Anon in Alaska on August 19, 2017, 05:01:22 AM
"Dad, when someone you barely know asks you for hundreds or thousands of dollars you should not give it to him; especially when he is using it to buy drugs. No, the fact that you don't actually need the money yourself because you've always been frugal doesn't change the answer."
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Sibley on August 19, 2017, 08:06:23 PM
New one this weekend:
Mom, I understand that you think something is valuable. The function of value is entirely dependent on what someone else is willing to pay. Based on our conversations this weekend, those numbers are VERY far apart for you.  Please figure it out and start selling some of your crap that is currently worth something BEFORE the rest of the boomers dump their stuff and destroy all value.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: LeRainDrop on August 19, 2017, 10:56:26 PM
New one this weekend:
Mom, I understand that you think something is valuable. The function of value is entirely dependent on what someone else is willing to pay. Based on our conversations this weekend, those numbers are VERY far apart for you.  Please figure it out and start selling some of your crap that is currently worth something BEFORE the rest of the boomers dump their stuff and destroy all value.

This reminds me of when my parents got divorced about 5 years ago.  My mom got to keep a handful of Hummels for sentimental reasons.  My dad wanted to "credit" their value against the 50% division of assets.  I was like, "dad, they are worth like $5."  He didn't believe me till I showed him on ebay.  He still has a hard time believing that as true.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Sibley on August 20, 2017, 09:29:22 AM
New one this weekend:
Mom, I understand that you think something is valuable. The function of value is entirely dependent on what someone else is willing to pay. Based on our conversations this weekend, those numbers are VERY far apart for you.  Please figure it out and start selling some of your crap that is currently worth something BEFORE the rest of the boomers dump their stuff and destroy all value.

This reminds me of when my parents got divorced about 5 years ago.  My mom got to keep a handful of Hummels for sentimental reasons.  My dad wanted to "credit" their value against the 50% division of assets.  I was like, "dad, they are worth like $5."  He didn't believe me till I showed him on ebay.  He still has a hard time believing that as true.

I think it's partially generational - they grew up in a time where, aside from the Great Depression, they hadn't experienced things depreciating in value. As long as you kept something in good condition, the value would at a minimum stay the same. That isn't the case now, and the mental shift isn't easy to make. Especially when you don't want to.

Additionally, for people who have grown up with you keep objects passed on from previous generations, they can't conceive of NOT keeping those objects. There's a ton of articles online that are basically Boomers complaining that their kids don't want their stuff. They also don't understand the difference in the amount of stuff around. Before mass production, it made sense to keep stuff over multiple generations. You either couldn't get it, or more likely couldn't afford to buy it. Mass production dropped prices so far that everyone could afford to get all the stuff, and they did. Which is great, until you get to the NEXT generation, which also can get their own stuff and aren't dependent on inheriting. Then the older generation's stuff isn't needed, and for the most part, not wanted. Many of those people are completely incapable of understanding or accepting this. My mom is one.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: paddedhat on August 20, 2017, 10:44:44 AM
New one this weekend:
Mom, I understand that you think something is valuable. The function of value is entirely dependent on what someone else is willing to pay. Based on our conversations this weekend, those numbers are VERY far apart for you.  Please figure it out and start selling some of your crap that is currently worth something BEFORE the rest of the boomers dump their stuff and destroy all value.

This reminds me of when my parents got divorced about 5 years ago.  My mom got to keep a handful of Hummels for sentimental reasons.  My dad wanted to "credit" their value against the 50% division of assets.  I was like, "dad, they are worth like $5."  He didn't believe me till I showed him on ebay.  He still has a hard time believing that as true.

I think it's partially generational - they grew up in a time where, aside from the Great Depression, they hadn't experienced things depreciating in value. As long as you kept something in good condition, the value would at a minimum stay the same. That isn't the case now, and the mental shift isn't easy to make. Especially when you don't want to.

I have a friend who has a customer base in one of the old, nearly dead coal producing parts of east. One of the more painful things he hears is of the retirees who are actually losing money, in unajusted dollars, while selling houses they have owned for 25-30 years. As in, "I paid $80K for the place in the 1980s. Spent $30K on an addition and another $25K on a new garage.  Now a realtor tells me it's going to be tough to get $110 for it." One thing to see the sacred family hutch end up bring $100 on CL, quite another to take a loss on a home since the entire region is slowly sliding toward the abyss

Additionally, for people who have grown up with you keep objects passed on from previous generations, they can't conceive of NOT keeping those objects. There's a ton of articles online that are basically Boomers complaining that their kids don't want their stuff. They also don't understand the difference in the amount of stuff around. Before mass production, it made sense to keep stuff over multiple generations. You either couldn't get it, or more likely couldn't afford to buy it. Mass production dropped prices so far that everyone could afford to get all the stuff, and they did. Which is great, until you get to the NEXT generation, which also can get their own stuff and aren't dependent on inheriting. Then the older generation's stuff isn't needed, and for the most part, not wanted. Many of those people are completely incapable of understanding or accepting this. My mom is one.

I'm not sure how much younger generations really take the time to see what a huge divide this was. I was reading yet another piece on Eddie Lampert's brillant play of destroying his Sear's empire, and it was accompanied by illustrations from the 1958 Sears catalog. One page was a tool section that featured small electric drills for $40 on up. Currently, sixty years later, I can have a top notch 3/8" delivered to my house for $35.

The larger picture is that the $40 spent in 1958 is worth $340 of spending power today. At that point a small color TV was $495 ($4200 in today's money) and a nice mass market dress was $19 ($161 today)  When you start thinking in terms of loading a pile of mom,dad or grandma's junk into the dumpster, since it's valueless, take a minute.  Do a quick calculation of what that pile would cost you if you went out today and found similar replacements. Take that total and multiply it by eight or ten, and that was the cost of those items, "back in the day". That exercise goes a long way toward explaining the struggle of older folks who are being, in our minds, "irrational" about their relationship to their, obviously worthless, possessions.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Cassie on August 20, 2017, 01:32:40 PM
I am 63 and growing up did not have the amount of clothing, shoes, etc that people have now. Clothes were not cheap as they were still being made here. Also if you knew your size you could buy without trying on because the sizes were all standard. That all changed with the cheap clothing from over seas.  I don't care that my kids don't want my stuff. No big deal at all. In fact I got rid of a ton of it.  They all have their own style. They have taken a few things they wanted.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: mies on September 02, 2017, 04:45:26 AM
I wish I could tell my dad to stop pissing his money away on lottery tickets. My parents are out of town this weekend. Before they left, my dad called me to let me know that if they died on the trip, he wanted me to check the lottery tickets he left on top of his printer in case they are winners. Are you fucking serious? If they did die, the least of my concern would be where his losing lottery tickets are located. What's even worse is I have only a vague idea of where his actual money is. I don't even know if he has any funeral stuff pre-arranged.

My dad has been buying a couple of lottery tickets a week probably since the late 80's. I did a quick calculation to see how much money he doesn't have based on a price of $2/ticket, a 7% rate of return, and 30 years in the market instead. I pulled $2 out of thin air. I don't know how much lottery tickets actually cost since I've never purchased one. It seemed reasonable. It came out to be almost $23,000. If he had just stuffed the money under the mattress, he'd still have over $6,000.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: RetiredAt63 on September 03, 2017, 10:44:52 AM
Mies, think of it as part of his entertainment budget - if he had spent that money on movies, concert tickets, etc. it would also be gone.  Presumably it adds something to his life?  The anticipation of winning?  The dreams of a big win? 

And yes, I spend my entertainment budget on concerts, movies, coffee with friends, not lottery tickets, so I do see where you are coming from.  ;-)
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: paddedhat on September 03, 2017, 11:20:31 AM
On the other hand.... priorities.

And I thought my parents were bad...

When I was 16, they offered me their late-90s SUV for "a great deal" of $5,000. Of course, being naive and way too goddamn trusting, I took it.

Fast-forward a couple of years. I hit a deer on the way home - totals the SUV. Fortunately, I had full coverage that I had been paying for in high school. Once the insurance finally settled up, I was informed by the insurance agent that 100% of the proceeds went to a title loan company to pay off a loan. I confronted my folks and they informed me that the money from the loan was used to adopt my little sister, so "it's ok."

...hm. Thanks mom and dad. Oh, and fuck you.

"Hey, can you guys help me with some school supplies this semester?"
"Oh sorry hun, we just don't have the money," they respond while relaxing in the new outdoor hot tub.

Priorities.

Future son-in-law is finishing college and needs a car. His parents are a case study in high level WTF?   They both have menial jobs, are perpetually broke, yet live in a McMansion,  in a gated golf community. At this point (mid-50s and early 60s) they should be in full blown crisis mode, living in a modest rental, and squirreling every penny away, so they don't end up living on canned cat food once the stupid train crashes, but no, because..........status. Dad is driving an older POS BMW which has reached the point that it can't pass the dealer without stopping by for a four figure repair bill. He decides to screw his own son by SELLING this rolling crapbox to the kid for $4K. The kid has zero mechanical DIY skills, and spend the next few years dropping obscene amounts of cash keeping this gem on the road. His mom and dad use the $4K they robbed junior of to lease a new BMW. Some people should just be taken to the vet and put to sleep. (that was sarcasm, BTW)
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Chesleygirl on September 03, 2017, 05:47:38 PM
Future son-in-law is finishing college and needs a car. His parents are a case study in high level WTF?   They both have menial jobs, are perpetually broke, yet live in a McMansion,  in a gated golf community. At this point (mid-50s and early 60s) they should be in full blown crisis mode, living in a modest rental, and squirreling every penny away, so they don't end up living on canned cat food once the stupid train crashes, but no, because..........status. D

I never understood people who had adult children, living in McMansions or really large homes. Sure, they can do what they want. I just don't understand the need for a 5 bedroom house if it's only two adults. Once my kids are grown, I'd prefer to downsize to a cottage style home.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Playing with Fire UK on September 04, 2017, 12:41:52 AM
Mies, think of it as part of his entertainment budget - if he had spent that money on movies, concert tickets, etc. it would also be gone.  Presumably it adds something to his life?  The anticipation of winning?  The dreams of a big win? 

And yes, I spend my entertainment budget on concerts, movies, coffee with friends, not lottery tickets, so I do see where you are coming from.  ;-)

I get the notion of lottery tickets as entertainment. My concern is with people who use the 'promise' of a potential win to abdicate responsibility for actual financial planning. Given that the call before travelling was about the lottery tickets not the will and funeral plan, I think this relative may have slipped into category 2.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: mies on September 04, 2017, 03:46:27 AM
Mies, think of it as part of his entertainment budget - if he had spent that money on movies, concert tickets, etc. it would also be gone.  Presumably it adds something to his life?  The anticipation of winning?  The dreams of a big win? 

And yes, I spend my entertainment budget on concerts, movies, coffee with friends, not lottery tickets, so I do see where you are coming from.  ;-)

I get the notion of lottery tickets as entertainment. My concern is with people who use the 'promise' of a potential win to abdicate responsibility for actual financial planning. Given that the call before travelling was about the lottery tickets not the will and funeral plan, I think this relative may have slipped into category 2.

How much actual entertainment do you get from a lottery ticket you buy at a gas station mini mart? I would rather see my dad spending $10 a week on a movie than $4 on something that is pretty much guaranteed to lose. At least if he went to a movie, he got a couple of hours of entertainment. All he has to show for his money is a couple of pieces of paper. If his goal was to get wealthy with that money, there are much smarter ways to go about it doing it.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: RetiredAt63 on September 04, 2017, 06:18:57 AM
Mies, think of it as part of his entertainment budget - if he had spent that money on movies, concert tickets, etc. it would also be gone.  Presumably it adds something to his life?  The anticipation of winning?  The dreams of a big win? 

And yes, I spend my entertainment budget on concerts, movies, coffee with friends, not lottery tickets, so I do see where you are coming from.  ;-)

I get the notion of lottery tickets as entertainment. My concern is with people who use the 'promise' of a potential win to abdicate responsibility for actual financial planning. Given that the call before travelling was about the lottery tickets not the will and funeral plan, I think this relative may have slipped into category 2.

How much actual entertainment do you get from a lottery ticket you buy at a gas station mini mart? I would rather see my dad spending $10 a week on a movie than $4 on something that is pretty much guaranteed to lose. At least if he went to a movie, he got a couple of hours of entertainment. All he has to show for his money is a couple of pieces of paper. If his goal was to get wealthy with that money, there are much smarter ways to go about it doing it.

I don't buy lottery tickets, I can do statistics and calculate odds.  So I get zero entertainment value out of them.  I don't go to casinos either.  Sounds like you see things the same way.  But some people (maybe your Dad?) like the dreams that go with them.  Although I agree with Playing With Fire, unless your Dad already had all the serious paperwork done, worrying about lottery tickets when he is about to travel seems like he is overly emotionally invested in them. 
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: mies on September 04, 2017, 06:37:44 AM
I don't buy lottery tickets, I can do statistics and calculate odds.  So I get zero entertainment value out of them.  I don't go to casinos either.  Sounds like you see things the same way.  But some people (maybe your Dad?) like the dreams that go with them.  Although I agree with Playing With Fire, unless your Dad already had all the serious paperwork done, worrying about lottery tickets when he is about to travel seems like he is overly emotionally invested in them.

Hi RetiredAt63, I apologize if I came off as rude. My comment was more a of a rhetorical question about the enjoyment attained from lottery ticket purchasing and I was not trying to insinuate that you buy lottery tickets. I agree that there is nothing wrong with having money set aside for doing fun stuff. I'd rather see him spend more money on something that brings some lasting enjoyment, than the cheap thrill of "Maybe I'll hit it big this time".

My dad does have investments, so he's not trying to fund his retirement with lottery winnings. The lottery tickets are just another manifestation of his poor money handling abilities. I could write a book about the silly things he has bought over the years that have done nothing but push him further away from the wealth I know he wanted/wants. He just doesn't look at his purchases rationally.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: RetiredAt63 on September 04, 2017, 07:37:59 AM
I don't buy lottery tickets, I can do statistics and calculate odds.  So I get zero entertainment value out of them.  I don't go to casinos either.  Sounds like you see things the same way.  But some people (maybe your Dad?) like the dreams that go with them.  Although I agree with Playing With Fire, unless your Dad already had all the serious paperwork done, worrying about lottery tickets when he is about to travel seems like he is overly emotionally invested in them.

Hi RetiredAt63, I apologize if I came off as rude. My comment was more a of a rhetorical question about the enjoyment attained from lottery ticket purchasing and I was not trying to insinuate that you buy lottery tickets. I agree that there is nothing wrong with having money set aside for doing fun stuff. I'd rather see him spend more money on something that brings some lasting enjoyment, than the cheap thrill of "Maybe I'll hit it big this time".

My dad does have investments, so he's not trying to fund his retirement with lottery winnings. The lottery tickets are just another manifestation of his poor money handling abilities. I could write a book about the silly things he has bought over the years that have done nothing but push him further away from the wealth I know he wanted/wants. He just doesn't look at his purchases rationally.

You didn't come off as rude - or at least, I don't think you did.  You are shaking your head (metaphorically) at his purchasing habits and venting in frustration. After all, you posted in the Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy, where we get to shake our heads at all the people around us who don't look at their purchases rationally.  Well, who don't look at so many of their purchases rationally.  I am sure those of us on here also have some purchases that are totally non-rational (guilty).
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: C-note on September 04, 2017, 07:57:49 AM
Future son-in-law is finishing college and needs a car. His parents are a case study in high level WTF?   They both have menial jobs, are perpetually broke, yet live in a McMansion,  in a gated golf community. At this point (mid-50s and early 60s) they should be in full blown crisis mode, living in a modest rental, and squirreling every penny away, so they don't end up living on canned cat food once the stupid train crashes, but no, because..........status. D

I never understood people who had adult children, living in McMansions or really large homes. Sure, they can do what they want. I just don't understand the need for a 5 bedroom house if it's only two adults. Once my kids are grown, I'd prefer to downsize to a cottage style home.

We're those people living in a big house (5 bed/4 bath) with no kids for about the past 5 years.  For us, it doesn't make sense financially to move - we've run a few different scenarios - plus we really like our neighborhood and are already planning to move in a few years to our final home.  We had kids later in life so maybe we're in some odd time flux stuck between empty-nesting and retirement.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Engineer93 on September 04, 2017, 12:28:42 PM
Not sure if this is the right thread to put this is in but I just remembered a funny story from back when I was in college. My future in-laws took my girlfriend and I to Lake Tahoe to go skiing.  We went to the casino one night and they gave us each $100 to gamble.  They went off to play their games and I sat down at a blackjack machine where I knew the player had the highest chance of winning (I think it's 49% or something like that).  The minimum bet was 25 cents.  After an hour her parents were ready to go after losing all of their money and I walked away $97 richer since I only lost $3.  I think I even got a free rum and coke from the waitress.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: MustachioedPistachio on September 05, 2017, 05:56:59 AM
Some people should just be taken to the vet and put to sleep. (that was sarcasm, BTW)

:3

Let's call it physician-assisted perma-napping. That's about the only medical care I'll (gladly) cover for the 'rents.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: ambimammular on September 06, 2017, 07:33:40 PM
Future son-in-law is finishing college and needs a car. His parents are a case study in high level WTF?   They both have menial jobs, are perpetually broke, yet live in a McMansion,  in a gated golf community. At this point (mid-50s and early 60s) they should be in full blown crisis mode, living in a modest rental, and squirreling every penny away, so they don't end up living on canned cat food once the stupid train crashes, but no, because..........status. D

I never understood people who had adult children, living in McMansions or really large homes. Sure, they can do what they want. I just don't understand the need for a 5 bedroom house if it's only two adults. Once my kids are grown, I'd prefer to downsize to a cottage style home.

Yeah, but what are you gonna do when all the kids and grandkids come home for Christmas? That's the line my parents keep giving us.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Sibley on September 06, 2017, 08:00:33 PM
Future son-in-law is finishing college and needs a car. His parents are a case study in high level WTF?   They both have menial jobs, are perpetually broke, yet live in a McMansion,  in a gated golf community. At this point (mid-50s and early 60s) they should be in full blown crisis mode, living in a modest rental, and squirreling every penny away, so they don't end up living on canned cat food once the stupid train crashes, but no, because..........status. D

I never understood people who had adult children, living in McMansions or really large homes. Sure, they can do what they want. I just don't understand the need for a 5 bedroom house if it's only two adults. Once my kids are grown, I'd prefer to downsize to a cottage style home.

Yeah, but what are you gonna do when all the kids and grandkids come home for Christmas? That's the line my parents keep giving us.

You're assuming that they all show up. A lot of families, that doesn't happen. People may prefer to stay home with their nuclear family. Or may be going to the other spouse's family. Even if they do all show up, that's what hotels are for.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: ambimammular on September 09, 2017, 08:11:25 AM
I would love to see M and D downsize, but they would have to sort through all their stuff, confront their excessive buying nature, think of all the work to craigslist or garage sale it, realize with disgust that they're never get their money back because the resell is pennies on the dollar, and bundle it all for Goodwill/the dump. Much easier just to settle back on the couch and let the dust collect on all the rooms you don't want to deal with.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: ambimammular on September 09, 2017, 08:15:13 AM
I forgot,
leave it for when the kids come home to visit, let them deal with it
If you wait long enough, it all becomes part of the estate to fight over with siblings.

In our family the fight will be for who doesn't have to take mom's Precious Moments and Hummels.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: mies on September 09, 2017, 10:48:47 AM
I forgot,
leave it for when the kids come home to visit, let them deal with it
If you wait long enough, it all becomes part of the estate to fight over with siblings.

In our family the fight will be for who doesn't have to take mom's Precious Moments and Hummels.

Lucky! I'm an only child so I get to deal with all my mom's crystal nick-nacks. I'm not sure what the value of that stuff is. I'm hoping it's low so I can just toss it >:D If it does have substantial value, I'll sell it, but I won't enjoy the process. I'm so over the idea of collectibles after trying to get rid of my own collections. Sometimes the sales are super easy, then you get ones that drag on FOREVER.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: kayvent on September 09, 2017, 11:05:59 AM
My mother is only 50 but I'm already fighting with her at times to not give me stuff. She's downsizing and when packing up asked if I wanted some particular things for my daughter. I said no. The next day, she hands me a bag with stuff to bring home. Same stuff. I say 'no'. She says to just bring it to my house and put it somewhere and she'll give it to someone else. I do. She takes something out of the bag and leaves it at my house.......I throw it out.

This is not an atypical pattern of events.
Title: Re: What you wish you could tell your very unmustachian parents
Post by: Meesh on September 09, 2017, 12:53:49 PM
I would say... you make in a month what a quarter of the country makes in a year and are in your mid 60s. How do you have no savings?

I will never be able to burn cash the way my parents do.