Author Topic: What does My boat really Cost me  (Read 7284 times)

boarder42

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What does My boat really Cost me
« on: February 08, 2017, 09:40:59 AM »
I wanted to do this math so figured i'd lay it out here. 

Boat 1999 Malibu VLX
Value - 25000 give or take

If 25k was invested at 6% return  -  1500/year
Slip lease fee - 350/year
Tax/title fee - 350/year
Insurance - 400/year
lake Reg - 50/year
Gas/maint - 400/year
Misc boat accessories - 250/year


So i do this very frugally IMO and it still comes in at a cost of 3300 annually.  Which is an extra 82500 we need to FIRE it works for me but again this is about as cheap a package as you can find for wakeboarding/wakesurfing in a really old 1999 Inboard V Drive boat. 

almost half the cost is the opportunity cost of investing that.  So a cheaper boat would yield lower taxes and lower opportunity costs. 

Let me know if you see things i'm missing.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 12:59:21 PM by boarder42 »

Chris22

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2017, 11:54:46 AM »
It would be interesting to know hours of usage. $3300/yr could be a lot of you use it one weekend, could be nothing if you use it every day.

boarder42

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2017, 11:57:57 AM »
well hours of motor running is probably around 50 or so per season.  but i have a small lake i mainly use it for watersports in the morning and then we'll go chill in the party cove area.  in addition the time spent wakeboarding the motor is off some too.  so i'd have to say probably 100 hours of use a summer give or take. 

We live lake front so use it quite a bit. 

CowboyAndIndian

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2017, 11:58:25 AM »

If 25k was invested at .06% return  -  1500/year


This is wrong. You would not keep $25k in a bank at almost zero interest. Even an online bank like Ally gives 1% return.
You would probably invest this, so more likely, it would be a long time average of 8-10%

Or did you type it wrong? Did you mean 6% and not 0.06%?

MgoSam

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2017, 12:07:04 PM »

If 25k was invested at .06% return  -  1500/year


This is wrong. You would not keep $25k in a bank at almost zero interest. Even an online bank like Ally gives 1% return.
You would probably invest this, so more likely, it would be a long time average of 8-10%

Or did you type it wrong? Did you mean 6% and not 0.06%?

1500 is 6% of 25k so I'm assuming he meant that he would invest that money. 6% is probably too conservative, I would have used 8%, but in this case it only shows how much more a boat really costs him.

MgoSam

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2017, 12:10:36 PM »
On a side note, a good friend of mine's parents live a few hours away in a beautiful house overlooking a lake. I have gone with her several times and enjoyed my time there, but man the Antimustacian stories they have. The parents are in their 60's and the house hasn't been paid for, and this last trip perhaps because they knew me more by now, they were opening up a little on their finances.

What does this have to do with this thread? Great question! Well I was up there for the 4th of July weekend and the dad mentioned wanting to change his pontoon as one of his friend's had a nicer one. A week after I left my friend mentioned that he went and bought a nicer pontoon and was now trying to sell his old one.

boarder42

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2017, 01:01:44 PM »

If 25k was invested at .06% return  -  1500/year


This is wrong. You would not keep $25k in a bank at almost zero interest. Even an online bank like Ally gives 1% return.
You would probably invest this, so more likely, it would be a long time average of 8-10%

Or did you type it wrong? Did you mean 6% and not 0.06%?

1500 is 6% of 25k so I'm assuming he meant that he would invest that money. 6% is probably too conservative, I would have used 8%, but in this case it only shows how much more a boat really costs him.

yeah 6% is conservative an I fixed it up top.  but its what i project all my earnings out at to project a FIRE date.  also probably left out depreciation so if i did 10% and put it at 2500 that would probably be even more conservative and likley include some depreciation. 

Vanguards and Lentils

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2017, 01:08:47 PM »
Just wanted to say +1 for including the opportunity cost (what the invested money could have gotten you) on a non appreciating asset. People usually miss that or ignore it.

Midwest

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2017, 01:17:09 PM »
Value seems high (which helps your opportunity cost).  I know wake board boats hold value but NADA is quite a bit lower (I'm trying to help justify your toy)>

What about the cost of a tow vehicle? 

boarder42

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2017, 01:25:31 PM »
Value seems high (which helps your opportunity cost).  I know wake board boats hold value but NADA is quite a bit lower (I'm trying to help justify your toy)>

What about the cost of a tow vehicle?

value on NADA with trailer is around 21k.  but if i put this boat on CL in a month it brings 25k everyday in my area of the country.  Maybe more.

I dont own a tow vehicle ... i live on a lake my boat sits on a lift on the lake.  i have a buddy tow my boat 2x a year into and out of the lake.

Midwest

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2017, 01:46:24 PM »
Value seems high (which helps your opportunity cost).  I know wake board boats hold value but NADA is quite a bit lower (I'm trying to help justify your toy)>

What about the cost of a tow vehicle?

value on NADA with trailer is around 21k.  but if i put this boat on CL in a month it brings 25k everyday in my area of the country.  Maybe more.


Agree, prices are very regional.  I tried to help you LOL. 

Boat does have some depreciation.  I didn't see that factored into your numbers.  Personally, I'm keeping my boat.  The additional cost is worth another year of work.

If you are looking at opportunity cost @ 6%, you could free up the money for investing with a loan and your opportunity cost would instead be the real cost of the money.

Either way, I'm keeping my boat.

boarder42

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2017, 01:58:26 PM »
Value seems high (which helps your opportunity cost).  I know wake board boats hold value but NADA is quite a bit lower (I'm trying to help justify your toy)>

What about the cost of a tow vehicle?

value on NADA with trailer is around 21k.  but if i put this boat on CL in a month it brings 25k everyday in my area of the country.  Maybe more.


Agree, prices are very regional.  I tried to help you LOL. 

Boat does have some depreciation.  I didn't see that factored into your numbers.  Personally, I'm keeping my boat.  The additional cost is worth another year of work.

If you are looking at opportunity cost @ 6%, you could free up the money for investing with a loan and your opportunity cost would instead be the real cost of the money.

Either way, I'm keeping my boat.

This was more just for fun and a practice.  to show others how much something like this may cost.  I'm not giving up my boat.  I save over 100k each year.  by the time i FIRE any extra year worked will net me over 300k a year in gains so this boat is chump change in my bigger picture.

Midwest

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2017, 02:19:13 PM »
Value seems high (which helps your opportunity cost).  I know wake board boats hold value but NADA is quite a bit lower (I'm trying to help justify your toy)>

What about the cost of a tow vehicle?

value on NADA with trailer is around 21k.  but if i put this boat on CL in a month it brings 25k everyday in my area of the country.  Maybe more.


Agree, prices are very regional.  I tried to help you LOL. 

Boat does have some depreciation.  I didn't see that factored into your numbers.  Personally, I'm keeping my boat.  The additional cost is worth another year of work.

If you are looking at opportunity cost @ 6%, you could free up the money for investing with a loan and your opportunity cost would instead be the real cost of the money.

Either way, I'm keeping my boat.

This was more just for fun and a practice.  to show others how much something like this may cost.  I'm not giving up my boat.  I save over 100k each year.  by the time i FIRE any extra year worked will net me over 300k a year in gains so this boat is chump change in my bigger picture.

This is a little off topic, but what I find interesting is the guys who buy new boats every couple of years.  I get about the same enjoyment out of their boat (we switch back and forth) as my 1997.  At 75-100 hours or so a year, direct drives last for 20 years easily if taken care of so why have $45k tied up when you could have $15k and do the same thing (or nearly so). 

Enjoy your boat.  It's really about being deliberate in your decision making process and understanding your choices.

boarder42

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2017, 02:34:04 PM »
Value seems high (which helps your opportunity cost).  I know wake board boats hold value but NADA is quite a bit lower (I'm trying to help justify your toy)>

What about the cost of a tow vehicle?

value on NADA with trailer is around 21k.  but if i put this boat on CL in a month it brings 25k everyday in my area of the country.  Maybe more.


Agree, prices are very regional.  I tried to help you LOL. 

Boat does have some depreciation.  I didn't see that factored into your numbers.  Personally, I'm keeping my boat.  The additional cost is worth another year of work.

If you are looking at opportunity cost @ 6%, you could free up the money for investing with a loan and your opportunity cost would instead be the real cost of the money.

Either way, I'm keeping my boat.

This was more just for fun and a practice.  to show others how much something like this may cost.  I'm not giving up my boat.  I save over 100k each year.  by the time i FIRE any extra year worked will net me over 300k a year in gains so this boat is chump change in my bigger picture.

This is a little off topic, but what I find interesting is the guys who buy new boats every couple of years.  I get about the same enjoyment out of their boat (we switch back and forth) as my 1997.  At 75-100 hours or so a year, direct drives last for 20 years easily if taken care of so why have $45k tied up when you could have $15k and do the same thing (or nearly so). 

Enjoy your boat.  It's really about being deliberate in your decision making process and understanding your choices.

well yeah and 45k ??? new inboard v Drives out the door are 60k for a deal on a cheap mfg. the big 3 are all 80k plus now for 21ft vdrives ... most boats are over 100k for 23 footers.  its crazy how fast that market is going.

Yeah my boat cost me 14,500,  i got it for a steal on a vdrive.  I usually swap boats every few years and actaully make a little bit of money.  When i see a deal in the fall i use my HELOC to buy the boat.  then hold mine til winter and sell around boat show season (when everyone thinks its the best time to buy) its really the best time to sell. b/c most people will wait til spring so the demand is high but the supply is low in winter.  havent seen anything the last couple years so we've kept this one.  i probably have around 23k in it right now though (b/c of an engine that blew up).

Midwest

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2017, 02:40:51 PM »
Value seems high (which helps your opportunity cost).  I know wake board boats hold value but NADA is quite a bit lower (I'm trying to help justify your toy)>

What about the cost of a tow vehicle?

value on NADA with trailer is around 21k.  but if i put this boat on CL in a month it brings 25k everyday in my area of the country.  Maybe more.


Agree, prices are very regional.  I tried to help you LOL. 

Boat does have some depreciation.  I didn't see that factored into your numbers.  Personally, I'm keeping my boat.  The additional cost is worth another year of work.

If you are looking at opportunity cost @ 6%, you could free up the money for investing with a loan and your opportunity cost would instead be the real cost of the money.

Either way, I'm keeping my boat.

This was more just for fun and a practice.  to show others how much something like this may cost.  I'm not giving up my boat.  I save over 100k each year.  by the time i FIRE any extra year worked will net me over 300k a year in gains so this boat is chump change in my bigger picture.

This is a little off topic, but what I find interesting is the guys who buy new boats every couple of years.  I get about the same enjoyment out of their boat (we switch back and forth) as my 1997.  At 75-100 hours or so a year, direct drives last for 20 years easily if taken care of so why have $45k tied up when you could have $15k and do the same thing (or nearly so). 

Enjoy your boat.  It's really about being deliberate in your decision making process and understanding your choices.

well yeah and 45k ??? new inboard v Drives out the door are 60k for a deal on a cheap mfg. the big 3 are all 80k plus now for 21ft vdrives ... most boats are over 100k for 23 footers.  its crazy how fast that market is going.

Yeah my boat cost me 14,500,  i got it for a steal on a vdrive.  I usually swap boats every few years and actaully make a little bit of money.  When i see a deal in the fall i use my HELOC to buy the boat.  then hold mine til winter and sell around boat show season (when everyone thinks its the best time to buy) its really the best time to sell. b/c most people will wait til spring so the demand is high but the supply is low in winter.  havent seen anything the last couple years so we've kept this one.  i probably have around 23k in it right now though (b/c of an engine that blew up).

We have ski boats, so boats are a little cheaper.  In addition, most of the DD go through the promo program or indirect channels so most don't pay retail.  1 or 2 year old SN 200's can be had in the low 40's.  I was a 3 year old prostar for 36k with 500 hours.  Still nuts for a 20 foot boat either way.

If you are swapping and making money, that's a different story.  I agree, market on inboards and V-drives is insane.

boarder42

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2017, 03:00:16 PM »
Yeah the ski market for Direct drives just dont hold value or garner the pricing upfront of the v drive market.  its getting out of control.  but man do i want an automated surf gate.  which means that instead of buying a 60k used boat i'm gonna build my own. 

boarder42

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2017, 03:03:14 PM »
The NXT20 from MC was supposed to be 50k all day.  just went to the boat show.  with your standard wake options and a trailer and boat show special pricing that 20 footer was 70k.  just a joke.  And dont get me started on how much clamping Fuadkfjds;fjing board racks cost on new boats.  its like a 6k adder per rack.  i need to design the next great wake thing. and just license that bIatch

Midwest

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2017, 03:03:23 PM »
Yeah the ski market for Direct drives just dont hold value or garner the pricing upfront of the v drive market.  its getting out of control.  but man do i want an automated surf gate.  which means that instead of buying a 60k used boat i'm gonna build my own.

That would be cool.  Good luck with that project.  My surfing is done behind a friends wakeboard boat (he ski's behind my boat).  Wakeboard boats make skiing look cheap!

Have you seen the wake tractor?  Really a interesting concept.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 03:05:20 PM by Midwest »

Brilliantine

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2017, 03:34:27 PM »
Aren't you missing the compounding? Or does your 6% assumption imply compounding over 10,  or 20, or 30 years?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 03:53:53 PM by Brilliantine »

JAYSLOL

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2017, 04:24:41 PM »
Yeah, this made me do the math on my boat.  It's a 14' aluminum fishing boat with a 9.9hp ob + electric trolling motor and a boat trailer.  Paid (used) and still worth ~$2k, usually put $200 or so worth of repairs and maintenance into boat, motor and trailer a year, $50 trailer insurance, and $50 - $80 of fuel.  So it probably costs me up to $500 a year, opertunity cost included.

boarder42

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2017, 04:47:02 PM »
Yeah the ski market for Direct drives just dont hold value or garner the pricing upfront of the v drive market.  its getting out of control.  but man do i want an automated surf gate.  which means that instead of buying a 60k used boat i'm gonna build my own.

That would be cool.  Good luck with that project.  My surfing is done behind a friends wakeboard boat (he ski's behind my boat).  Wakeboard boats make skiing look cheap!

Have you seen the wake tractor?  Really a interesting concept.

Interesting yes. Haven't heard good things about its wave or wake

MightyAl

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2017, 05:21:10 PM »
I recently was talking to a friend of mine and for some reason I brought up how much money that boats suck up. He then says "so you wouldn't want to go half on one then?".  At this point in my life I have to say no. My wife loves to ski and my kids love to go out on the water but we live at least an hour from the closest water and I don't have a tow vehicle. I have friends that would never be without one just for the family time. Sometimes the juice is worth the squeeze.

boarder42

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2017, 05:26:45 PM »
I recently was talking to a friend of mine and for some reason I brought up how much money that boats suck up. He then says "so you wouldn't want to go half on one then?".  At this point in my life I have to say no. My wife loves to ski and my kids love to go out on the water but we live at least an hour from the closest water and I don't have a tow vehicle. I have friends that would never be without one just for the family time. Sometimes the juice is worth the squeeze.

Yeah I would not own it if we didn't live in a lake community. I wouldn't trailer and I wouldn't drive to a lake or just use it for weekends.  But in KC we have so many lakes

boarder42

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2017, 06:33:38 AM »
Aren't you missing the compounding? Or does your 6% assumption imply compounding over 10,  or 20, or 30 years?

 i mean i've gone back and forth on considering compounding over time but if i dont plan to ever get rid of it or at least always own one.  then what it really is costing me and the number i have to plan for to own it in FIRE is already inflated by assuming the opportunity cost of the money. 

but sure just for fun over 30 years the cost is 143k in today dollars.  so you could say its actually costing me closer to 5k per year to own vs not in opportunity cost.

LiveLean

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2017, 08:19:38 AM »
Even though I live around water (Pinellas County, Fla.) I've never wanted to endure the cost and time suck of owning a boat. That's been confirmed when I took up stand-up paddleboarding six years ago. I can fish off my boards, get a workout, and look much more badass than the typical drunk boater douche zipping along pissing away money.

boarder42

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2017, 08:38:20 AM »
Even though I live around water (Pinellas County, Fla.) I've never wanted to endure the cost and time suck of owning a boat. That's been confirmed when I took up stand-up paddleboarding six years ago. I can fish off my boards, get a workout, and look much more badass than the typical drunk boater douche zipping along pissing away money.

mostly uncalled for.  but if you can make a surfable wave behind your paddleboad and a good wakeboard wake for me i'm all for paying you half my annual boat costs for a pull. 

yes for fishing a boat isnt necessary.


dogboyslim

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2017, 08:46:02 AM »
I want your slip fees!  Summer slip for my sailboat is $3100!!!!

My monthly expense for my boat is $460.  I calculated it a few months ago in a somewhat similar way as you.  I'm now contemplating selling it, but I do really enjoy the time on the boat with the family with no electronics.  The cost per hour though is enormous.

I also have an Expedition EL to tow it that I didn't include in that cost.

I can afford this within the scope of my FIRE plans, but it certainly won't qualify me for any mustachian awards.

Fishindude

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2017, 08:46:27 AM »
I've got a 22' pontoon purchased for roughly $25,000 and a 17' Lund fishing boat also roughly $25,000 at lake property.
Also have a 14' jon boat, $3,000 I keep at home in the barn.

Estimate of annual total cost for all:
Assume I keep them avg. 10 years, then sell for 30% of purchase = $3,710 / year
Fuel for all, probably $400
Insurance $400
Annual dock and lift remove and install $600
Winter prep & storage $500
General upkeep, repairs, etc. $500
Trailer plates $100

Annual expense totals for (3) boats +/- $6,210   No consideration given for "what if" money was invested.
They are definitely a money drain and an expensive hobby, but the whole family gets a lot of enjoyment out of them.
Almost all of the expense is for the two larger boats.  The jon boat is very low cost.
Also have a couple kayaks and a canoe taking up storage space :(


 

boarder42

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2017, 08:53:12 AM »
I live in the most affordable lake community in my area.  We're a private HOA with all HOA owned slips the 350 is solely for maintenance.  Its a pretty sweet deal.  I'm on the lake committee and running for the board.  So i'm hoping to make more improvements for lake life.

aschmidt2930

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2017, 08:55:20 AM »
The gas number seems pretty low, do you only use it a couple of times a year?  If that's the case, couldn't you just split renting one with a friend a couple of times a year for less?

Either way, it seems like you have a pretty good handle on what the real cost is, meaning you truly understand whether it's worth it to you.

boarder42

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2017, 09:32:40 AM »
The gas number seems pretty low, do you only use it a couple of times a year?  If that's the case, couldn't you just split renting one with a friend a couple of times a year for less?

Either way, it seems like you have a pretty good handle on what the real cost is, meaning you truly understand whether it's worth it to you.

what makes you think the gas number is low.  I"m not running across the ozarks.  i live on a small 250 acre lake.  the gas is used to pull towing sports.  i use it multiple times a week.  eats 5 gallons give or take per week of use

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2017, 11:06:02 AM »
The gas number seems pretty low, do you only use it a couple of times a year?  If that's the case, couldn't you just split renting one with a friend a couple of times a year for less?

Either way, it seems like you have a pretty good handle on what the real cost is, meaning you truly understand whether it's worth it to you.

what makes you think the gas number is low.  I"m not running across the ozarks.  i live on a small 250 acre lake.  the gas is used to pull towing sports.  i use it multiple times a week.  eats 5 gallons give or take per week of use

No need to tow the boat to the lake or anywhere else + cheap slip onsite = probably the most cost effective way to own a boat, and if you live on a lake it would be a crying shame to not enjoy the water.

boarder42

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2017, 11:24:53 AM »
The gas number seems pretty low, do you only use it a couple of times a year?  If that's the case, couldn't you just split renting one with a friend a couple of times a year for less?

Either way, it seems like you have a pretty good handle on what the real cost is, meaning you truly understand whether it's worth it to you.

what makes you think the gas number is low.  I"m not running across the ozarks.  i live on a small 250 acre lake.  the gas is used to pull towing sports.  i use it multiple times a week.  eats 5 gallons give or take per week of use

No need to tow the boat to the lake or anywhere else + cheap slip onsite = probably the most cost effective way to own a boat, and if you live on a lake it would be a crying shame to not enjoy the water.

yep.. as i said above i wouldnt own it if i had to trailer or didnt live in a lake community.  i do have to drive to my slip. but am planning to relocate to a slip i can paddleboard to.

steviesterno

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2017, 09:39:39 AM »
jumped into this thread to learn some. I'm thinking about relocating, and 2 houses that are in the front runner for me. One has a dock and boat launch on a giant ass lake. The other has 5+ acres and is more secluded, but on a small lock so canoes/kayaks/SUPs are in play.

Wondering if it's worth it to live on a lake, as I've always wanted to and I feel I'd enjoy the water a ton. Or am I better off with some land and a barn for my hobbies, kayaking for free (or damn near) and dropping a power boat in at one of the public docks the maybe 3 times a year I'd want to use it.

boarder42

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2017, 10:50:16 AM »
jumped into this thread to learn some. I'm thinking about relocating, and 2 houses that are in the front runner for me. One has a dock and boat launch on a giant ass lake. The other has 5+ acres and is more secluded, but on a small lock so canoes/kayaks/SUPs are in play.

Wondering if it's worth it to live on a lake, as I've always wanted to and I feel I'd enjoy the water a ton. Or am I better off with some land and a barn for my hobbies, kayaking for free (or damn near) and dropping a power boat in at one of the public docks the maybe 3 times a year I'd want to use it.

no reason to own a boat if you plan to use it just 3x per year.  better to find a friend or rent.

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2017, 12:41:08 PM »
Quote
no reason to own a boat if you plan to use it just 3x per year.  better to find a friend or rent.

+1000

My aunt probably spends $20k a year housing and maintaining a boat that she only gets to use x3-4 times a season. Then, she can never understand why she's always broke. It's insane.

Midwest

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2017, 12:50:38 PM »
jumped into this thread to learn some. I'm thinking about relocating, and 2 houses that are in the front runner for me. One has a dock and boat launch on a giant ass lake. The other has 5+ acres and is more secluded, but on a small lock so canoes/kayaks/SUPs are in play.

Wondering if it's worth it to live on a lake, as I've always wanted to and I feel I'd enjoy the water a ton. Or am I better off with some land and a barn for my hobbies, kayaking for free (or damn near) and dropping a power boat in at one of the public docks the maybe 3 times a year I'd want to use it.

I love boating, but wouldn't own for 3x a year.

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2017, 12:57:33 PM »
I have a buddy who teamed up with some business partners to buy a Cessna. All were pilots. All performed maintenance. But at least one of them was flying around in it every weekend, and sometimes during the week. They had some kind of time splitting routine worked out.

It seems to me that motivated people could also team up to buy shares in a boat, if they wanted to.

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2017, 01:01:34 PM »
I have a buddy who teamed up with some business partners to buy a Cessna. All were pilots. All performed maintenance. But at least one of them was flying around in it every weekend, and sometimes during the week. They had some kind of time splitting routine worked out.

It seems to me that motivated people could also team up to buy shares in a boat, if they wanted to.

yes i've often thought of this.  esp. in my lake community.  i see about 20 boats of the more than 300 in the community used on a regular basis.

Just Joe

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2017, 03:05:01 PM »
What is it like to live on a busy lake? Is it like living next to a busy airport runway? (noisy?)

I always enjoy going ot the lake - haven't done that for years. Considered buying a boat but then I'd need storage to keep it out of the weather, and a stout tow vehicle. Not sure I'm that dedicated to the notion.

What does it cost to rent a ski-boat? Some neighbors once upon a time shared a boat with two other families. They rented a slip for it at the lake. The one time I was on it the boat was really suffering from being in the water all the time. Had some green lake scum on the sides, alot of sun damage, a motor that wasn't quite right, etc. They sold it soon after and gave up going to the lake.

I think the boat would have benefited from some hard use. Just open it up and run the fuel out of it. New plugs, etc.

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2017, 04:12:33 PM »
It's awesome to live on the lake. It's not that busy except major holidays. Even then not like the big lakes. Ski boats are hard to come by as rentals and the price varies wildly by area. I've considered renting mine on our lake

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2017, 05:31:39 AM »
How much joy does your boat bring you?  How much food does it take off your table?

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2017, 07:53:44 AM »
How much joy does your boat bring you?  How much food does it take off your table?
If he can fish from it, it puts food on his table.

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2017, 09:47:26 AM »
How much joy does your boat bring you?  How much food does it take off your table?
If he can fish from it, it puts food on his table.

you can fish from the shore... never really understood fishing boats.  esp on my lake b/c you know where they all go fish... right by the shore. 

Not really sure how it is taking food off my table.  we pull in over 175k a year.  if my boat was affecting my food there would be lots of other serious spending problems.

Just Joe

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2017, 10:04:12 AM »
I'd say the gas cost alone for some users would likely offset the value of the fish - 16 mpg truck driven across the county towing the boat, then $10 worth of fuel for the boat, maybe some bait...  Not to mention that being big into fishing probably means a person probably drives that truck as their primary vehicle year 'round.

I think the better cost effective solution would be a used canoe or kayak or simply fishing from the shore as already mentioned.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 10:23:32 AM by Tasty Pinecones »

nereo

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2017, 10:16:04 AM »
It would be interesting to know hours of usage. $3300/yr could be a lot of you use it one weekend, could be nothing if you use it every day.

This is the most underappreciated metrics when people talk about the cost of small boats.
Can't find it right now, but Yamaha released a report saying that >50% of their outboard engines had less than 100 running hours after 10 years, despite user surveys that suggested owners thought they were much higher users. 

After 10 years the purchase cost + annual maintenance / hours used  = $100+ per running hour.
(and that's just for the engine - the boat itself can double that). 

not saying anything about Boarder42's usage, just an observation in general.

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2017, 10:24:24 AM »
How much joy does your boat bring you?  How much food does it take off your table?

More joy than anything else in my life (I'm single, no dog).  And no food at all, since I make easily enough to feed myself.

I love the idea of FI and RE, but my goal is to be happy.  Yes, I can be happy with less, and I could even deal with a smaller boat, but I'm very content with what I pay.  Lots of hobbies or expenditures on here are crucified by someone because it's add money to the budget.  Who cares, still gonna retire 25+ years before the majority of my peers.

And my boat is just for fishing.  And a wakeboarder may find that silly and good for them. 

And many lakes you can't just "walk around".  And plenty of lakes the best fishing isn't from shore. 

Also, I drive a truck.  Totally worth the cost. 

It's not that hard when you have you financial bearings, to play the cost vs value game.  Fishing costs me a lot of money from a mustacian perspective, but gives me value beyond the costs. 

But hey, most people think boat and think use it 5 times a year.  And I'm more around the 7-8 times during an average month. 

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2017, 10:25:04 AM »
It would be interesting to know hours of usage. $3300/yr could be a lot of you use it one weekend, could be nothing if you use it every day.

This is the most underappreciated metrics when people talk about the cost of small boats.
Can't find it right now, but Yamaha released a report saying that >50% of their outboard engines had less than 100 running hours after 10 years, despite user surveys that suggested owners thought they were much higher users. 

After 10 years the purchase cost + annual maintenance / hours used  = $100+ per running hour.
(and that's just for the engine - the boat itself can double that). 

not saying anything about Boarder42's usage, just an observation in general.

We had that other boat thread, and I theorized that the two biggest aspects around boats for cost and usage are storage and trailering.  In other words, if you don't have to pay to store your boat (either in water while waiting for use or out of water for the season), the cost goes down dramatically.  And if you don't have to trailer your boat (or travel too far to it) and it's as easy as walking down to your own dock, your usage will go up dramatically. 

The other aspect is that like cars, after a certain point boats don't really depreciate that much.  My FIL bought an 18' bowrider for $6500, had it for 12 years, stored it himself, kept it on a lift in front of his cabin, and recently sold it for ~$4500.  I'm sure maintenance didn't average more than $200 a year (most of it DIY).  His usage was sort of odd; about 3-4 weeks a year it was used several hours a day, the rest of the year it just sat in his building.  But $2k of cost (net) + $200/yr isn't a big deal. 

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2017, 10:26:41 AM »
You're probably correct. We had a family full of boats when I was younger. Nobody actually went anywhere with them. They would run them 20 minutes across the lake or up the river and then stop for swimming or fishing. Might waterski for a couple of hours in a day.

Not once did anyone I know do a fall colors cruise with them down the river tens of miles.

I'd still like to have a boat.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 10:28:42 AM by Tasty Pinecones »

boarder42

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Re: What does My boat really Cost me
« Reply #49 on: February 15, 2017, 02:27:02 PM »
It would be interesting to know hours of usage. $3300/yr could be a lot of you use it one weekend, could be nothing if you use it every day.

This is the most underappreciated metrics when people talk about the cost of small boats.
Can't find it right now, but Yamaha released a report saying that >50% of their outboard engines had less than 100 running hours after 10 years, despite user surveys that suggested owners thought they were much higher users. 

After 10 years the purchase cost + annual maintenance / hours used  = $100+ per running hour.
(and that's just for the engine - the boat itself can double that). 

not saying anything about Boarder42's usage, just an observation in general.

We had that other boat thread, and I theorized that the two biggest aspects around boats for cost and usage are storage and trailering.  In other words, if you don't have to pay to store your boat (either in water while waiting for use or out of water for the season), the cost goes down dramatically.  And if you don't have to trailer your boat (or travel too far to it) and it's as easy as walking down to your own dock, your usage will go up dramatically. 

The other aspect is that like cars, after a certain point boats don't really depreciate that much.  My FIL bought an 18' bowrider for $6500, had it for 12 years, stored it himself, kept it on a lift in front of his cabin, and recently sold it for ~$4500.  I'm sure maintenance didn't average more than $200 a year (most of it DIY).  His usage was sort of odd; about 3-4 weeks a year it was used several hours a day, the rest of the year it just sat in his building.  But $2k of cost (net) + $200/yr isn't a big deal.

Yeah slips usually cost much more than 350 bucks a year like i get to pay.  but you're right on with depreciation and if you find somene just desperate to sell a boat or buy it seasonally correct you can get slamming deals. and flip them in a better season.

i basically have eliminated what you consider to be the 2 largest costs.