Maybe women want to work less. Plenty of women want to be house wives or stay-at-home-moms. You probably think I am wrong
I don't necessarily think that this isn't partly true...
But supposing it's true, why do women want to work less and earn less? It's not like having woman-parts should cause anyone to eschew lucrative careers... women are human beings, so (like men) they often want what they are told to want. And we collectively keep telling women to want to work less, stay at home, be a housewife and raise children. And we collectively keep telling men to want to earn more and aim for the top. It's still sexist.
Sure, there are lots of reasons for the gender wage gap. (So far we've identified three.) But however it's explained, the explanation is either going to acknowledge sexism, or be an example of it.
If women do want to work less, I don't know why. And if I offer an explanation, you will say I'm being sexist. Accept my religion, or you are going to hell! :P
It could be argued that it is sexist that men are looked down upon for being stay-at-home-dads, or that it is embarrassing if a man's wife makes more money than him.
I agree! Those things are totally sexist... against women. These are two examples of men being judged for taking an "inferior" role which "should be" taken by a woman. The sexism is the implication that they ought to take the "superior" role because they are a man.
The difference between sexism against women and "sexism against men" is that sexism against women is mainly propagated by men, and "sexism against men" is mainly propagated by men.
That's based on the opinion that one role is inferior to the other. If you don't think that, it's pretty symmetric. The sexist part is that men and women are expected to fill different rolls, and they are looked down upon for not doing so. There are other things that men bitch about as being sexist against men, many involve the courts. I'm not going to list them because defending them is not the point. Point is, both genders are whiny bitches. In the spirit of re-appropriation: we need to grow some vagina!
But you don't have a reason why women "want" to work less nor any evidence that they do, why would you assume the answer is they want ti? One reason could be gender wage gap. I took a large time off than my husband because neither of us have parental leave pay and he made more so we had save up less for me to be out then him.
I'm not assuming that; I threw it out as a possibility. I think there are too many unknowns to claim sexism. That view is not sexist.
Except that this is an entire field of research (that has been going for over 30 years, to my knowledge, probably longer but I refuse to go into the stacks without a damn good reason), and they have determined the "reason". And that reason is a inherent gender bias (psych/soc people don't call it sexism, lol) and the effects of that bias. For example women who did succeed in the generation prior often worked more hours than the men (so you look at the hours put in by a female dean/chair/higher level tenure (I assume C level as well but not my interest so I don't know for certain) and it is higher than the average male in the same position). That means that they expect more out of those in the next generation, which means those who want work life balance often go with male investigators if they have choice (because the men expect hour similar to their own, in the same way as the females) And who gets the choice? The top students. So you have two PIs working the same hours, but the females are working more service hours (required by the chair, and that fact is supported by research which again I can post on Monday) so less research hours, they often get not the pick of grad students or post docs (ones doing most of the research) which means more hand holding which means again less bench work for PI and all of that, combined with inherit bias when picking tenure faculty equal less promotions for females.
So, do we assume it is just women want this, or do we follow what research shows? Which is that they are fighting against not only an external bias but an internal one because we have women and men as children that men jobs are one kind and women jobs are another kind and being a stay at home parent or a part time parent is a female possibility not a male.
Based on my job throwing out ideas that don't come from previous evidence bothers me. Especially when even the question is phrased in a subtle sexist way. Now, given the demographics on this board, I assume you are male. Most males are not THAT subtle so I assume that it was not an international phrasing. Which just goes to show the biggest issue. People are not educated about this, we don't want to admit our prejudices and then we do subtle things that still affect our culture in that way.
It's OK to throw around possibilities when you are challenging a claim. The burden is on the person making the claim to figure this stuff out. Maybe I should have said "I don't have good reason to believe our society is sexist" instead of "I think we are very close to gender equality." When I said that, it wasn't to make a claim, it was to give a background of my thoughts and why I don't see calling someone a pussy as sexist.
Why would you be upset that I don't acknowledge something I don't see? I don't care that you think our society is sexist, but I object to the idea that I am sexist for not agreeing with you. That's like when a religious person tries to convert somebody, then tells them they are a sinner for not accepting it.
BTW, I browsed the article you posted from Jezebel. That language is disgusting. If I new a person who talked like that, I'd try to get them psychological help. They are serious about what they are saying and are crossing the line. It is specific and violent, totally different category than the jokes I was talking about. Yes, there is a line and it's not hard for people to see it, in my experience. No, I don't think pussy jokes lead to that language or those ideas. Those guys live in their own world.
What is the first part I put in bold referring to?
Is it sexist to say most males are not that subtle? I don't know what is and what is not.
It is not sexist to understand and comment on differences but it is sexist to assume ALL in that group have those characteristics (and that really is not efficient because it is wrong enough of the times). A stupid example, most women are shorter than most men and are less strong. However some women are stronger than some men. So you would not put an ad for someone who needs to pick up 100lb as a male only job but you would put that the person needs to pick up 100lbs and it would not be unreasonable to assume the majority of the people who apply are male as long that does not stop you from accepting the females who apply. Does that make sense?
To the rest of your point, it is not in a different category than what you said, it is just more extreme. Those comment you made, contribute to a culture that allow those men to think their comments are ok.
Actually I classed you as sexist for your original comment and subsequent behavior, not the lack of being able to identify the sexism. The not being able to identify it, is classed as privilege.
You did not say, I think there are too many variables to declare this is just sexism (except that if you look up inhert bias and wage/hiring etc, you will see that that bias has been shown to result in both sexist and racist hiring and income gaps, so that tells me you just have not looked anything up), you said "maybe it is just women want to stay home" which predisposes that women want to more then men. Not most women vs most men (though there has been no research I have seen to even to back that up, please link if you have) but ALL women vs ALL men. That predisposition is by it's very nature a sexist conclusion. Does that explain my comments more?
And just a side note, one way I keep myself safe is hearing the "little sexism" and avoiding the men who say them because those state sexist comments are correlated to those who sexually assault because both are correlated to a sexist belief system that makes women's consent not matter as much as a male's wants. So, yes, your comments and beliefs do affect women around you, it is not harmless like believing a different religion.