Author Topic: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision  (Read 11306 times)

MrsDinero

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 935
I just need a place to vent because I'm watching the beginning of a train-wreck.

Some friends of mine are in the process of buying their "dream home".  I've tried to gently talk with with about some of the realities of what is going to happen, but they are dead set on buying this home.

The home they are buying will be bought under a rehab mortgage (203k) loan.  The house at first glance was not a bad deal. They house like was a foreclosure and needs a lot of work, however it is in their ideal school district and will essentially cut their 14 mile work commute in half.  The house is large enough for their family (2 adults, 2 kids + 1 on the way).  It has an in-law suite that could either be reattached to the home or used as an in-law suite.  Ready to move-in homes in this neighborhood can cost 3-4 times the price of this home.

At first I was excited about it, because they are both of the DIY spirit, and it seemed like with a little bit of "elbow grease" they could have a really nice home.  However the more I learn about the house and the mortgage I'm starting to see it a money pit. 

Recently my friend was saying that they are planning to take out the loan (mortgage + rehab loan) for only enough to make it livable and pass inspection.  Then they plan to live in the 2 bedroom in-law suite and fix up the rest of the house before moving in.  When I asked why, they said the rest of the house has a lot of lead paint (the in-law suite does not).  They plan to gut the rest of the house and build it back over the course of a year.  When I asked why they don't add these costs to the rehab loan, they said "because it would be a bigger mortgage than their budget allows" and they would have to rent an apartment (they are currently living rent free with relatives until they move into their house but that has an expiration date).  My friend also mentioned that the well water with the house is has been deemed non-drinkable because natural gas has seeped into it.  It is ok for bathing but they will have to get a water service to deliver water on a weekly basis.  They cannot hook up to city water yet because the city is in the process of running lines their way, so maybe it 2-3 years they will be attached to city water. 

I tried to make the point that if they didn't have money in the budget for a larger mortgage then how would they pay for the materials to rehab the rest of the house?  How would they pay for the additional water service? Plus they have a little one on the way which will increase their already tight budget with added childcare.

Also what are the long-term effects of living in a house with natural gas in the water supply?  Maybe its a first world problem on my part but the idea of bathing in water I'm not allowed to drink freaks me out.

They haven't signed any loan documents yet, closing is set for next month.  I'm hoping they come to their senses before then, but I doubt it because they say this is their dream home where they plan to live, raise their family, and retire in. 

Thanks for letting me vent.

ETA financial detail.  They estimate the cost of gutting and redoing the rest of the house around $30k for materials alone. I don't know much about the cost of materials but this seems low for a 2600 sqft 4 bedroom home. Either way this is almost 1/2 their annual take home pay.  This is their last child they are planning to have but pregnancy is not easy on my friend.  The last 2 pregnancies she used up all her STD before giving birth and plans to take 8-12 weeks unpaid maternity leave. 
« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 11:39:49 AM by MrsDinero »

VaCPA

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 220
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2016, 11:34:05 AM »
My friend also mentioned that the well water with the house is has been deemed non-drinkable because natural gas has seeped into itIt is ok for bathing but they will have to get a water service to deliver water on a weekly basis.  They cannot hook up to city water yet because the city is in the process of running lines their way, so maybe it 2-3 years they will be attached to city water. 

This would freak me out too. My 3.5 drinks bath water all the time even though we tell him not to because it's gross. I hope they really research the risks because it's probably impossible to keep little kids from drinking any bath water.

Sounds like your friends are getting in over their head but unfortunately you've done all you can do.

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3643
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2016, 11:40:03 AM »
My parents house has well water that is utter crap to drink. They bought a water cooler and go and pick up 5 gallons of water at the grocery store, it's 39 cents a galllon. I believe it would be like $10 for 5 gallons to have it delivered.

Heck I do the same thing at work, I couldn't justify paying that much for water, so I just pick it up a few bottles whenever I think we need to.

LeRainDrop

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1841
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2016, 11:40:19 AM »
Oh, how sad.  I hope the deal falls through.

Digital Dogma

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 423
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2016, 01:53:31 PM »
Wow

I wonder if drilling a deeper well would yield the same results as the current well?

Shipping in water sounds like a disaster. Even a complex water treatment system would be preferable to that.

SwordGuy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6243
  • Location: Fayetteville, NC
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2016, 04:58:01 PM »
It might work out for them if they are smart about it.   

Lead based paint isn't necessarily a real problem.  A huge % of the US housing market may have lead paint in it.  Just keep it in good repair (i.e., not peeling) and life is good.

They could replace (by themselves) most of the sheet rock in the house and repaint it for a whole lot less than $30,000 if replacement was actually needed.

Drinking water wouldn't be that expensive if they are smart about it.   As long as it's safe for washing dishes and clothes, the expense wouldn't be that much.

If they fixed it up nicely, a small bit at a time, they might be able to sell it for a really good profit after the city water comes in.   At that point they would be considered geniuses.   If their careers are such that their income can be expected to go up over the next few years, and they can wait until that for the bigger expenses, ditto.

Of course, if they can't afford the mortgage payment at all, much less small incremental repairs, they would be really foolish to do this. 

 

gooki

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2397
  • Location: NZ
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2016, 09:51:34 PM »
I don't see the issue unless they have a very low income.

Sure it's risky, but it appears to be a calculated risk, and the potential return on investment is inline with the risk level.

MrsDinero

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 935
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2016, 07:51:08 AM »
Maybe I am just being negative about it, but I just don't see much good coming out of this, at least not for a very very long time.  They make good money (~$65k) but have just over 6 figures in other debt (student loans, cars, credit cards) not counting monthly bills like childcare and healthcare (~$2k/month).  They have been living paycheck to paycheck for the last few years.  They have no emergency fund and no down payment.  They have been saving the "rent" money while living rent free, but I've started to see posts about things they have bought for their new home (mostly furniture, all new).

I mentioned that they would be able to rent out the in-law suite for additional income, however that was shot down with about 10 reasons why that would be "absolutely impossible". 

The husband has the most potential for getting more raises.  He got a significant one ($5/hr increase) last year because he told his boss that he was considering leaving for more pay.  He most likely will receive another raise this year but in my experience you can only play that "give me more money or I'll leave" card once.  Her raises for the past few years have been about 25 cents more an hour.  She was told she would not receive an increase this year because she already gets paid more than her peers.  She said she would move into a more lead position but they said no they don't need a lead position.  She's been looking for new jobs for the past year but they have all been offering her less money than she earns now.

When it comes down to it, they just don't see money the way most people on here do.  I seriously doubt they will even consider selling when the house gets hooked up to city water because this is their forever home.

Their idea of saving for college is to put some money into a lock box for each kid birthday and christmas, so they can hand them a box of cash at their graduation.  I tried to tell them about 529s.  Their response was it sounded too complicated and this way they can "watch their money grow".


Miss Piggy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1343
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2016, 08:24:02 AM »
Sounds to me like you just need to put on your seatbelt and watch the trainwreck. Doesn't look like they want your advice or insights. Sad.

crispy

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 467
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2016, 08:59:45 AM »
I finally learned that I can't care about someone else's situation more than he/she does.  I have a friend (now an acquaintance because I couldn't deal with the daily financial drama) who just keeps making bad financial decision after bad financial decision. I spent a lot of time offering advice and trying to help (although never financially), but the end result is she and her husband still made bad decisions and I was stressed out worrying that they were going to end up homeless. You can't fix this so you just let them do their thing and let the chips fall where they may.

Also, don't help them financially.  Sometimes people need to face the consequences of their actions in order to change.  One reason my friend has continued to do stupid things is because she constantly makes people feel sorry for her until they help her out.  I think she has reached the point where she has burned bridges with a lot of people and the help isn't forthcoming anymore.

MrsDinero

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 935
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2016, 09:24:02 AM »
I agree on the not giving them money and I don't.  The last time I did was as their wedding gift, but I usually give money as wedding gifts.

I don't stress about them being homeless, but I do worry about what their elderly years.  They talk about how their parents never saved and that eventually they will feel obligated to take care of them.  The don't realize that in about 30 years or so their kids will be saying the exact same thing about them. 

I know there is nothing I can do, but sometimes it is nice to just be able to vent rather than keep it bottled up.

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3643
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2016, 09:52:40 AM »
I know there is nothing I can do, but sometimes it is nice to just be able to vent rather than keep it bottled up.

That's what this forum is best used for imho.

Cassie

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6030
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2016, 06:56:30 PM »
It is going to take a lot more $ then 30k to fix that home up.  If they are patient and just fix it as they can afford to pay cash they might be fine. But if not they are heading for a disaster.  If they are buying new furniture this appears dumb since the house needs so much work.  Ugh! Plus they have six figures of debt on that income-not good.  I think they should be renters until debt paid off.

gooki

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2397
  • Location: NZ
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2016, 07:34:40 PM »
Maybe I am just being negative about it, but I just don't see much good coming out of this, at least not for a very very long time.  They make good money (~$65k) but have just over 6 figures in other debt (student loans, cars, credit cards) not counting monthly bills like childcare and healthcare (~$2k/month).  They have been living paycheck to paycheck for the last few years.  They have no emergency fund and no down payment. 

Now I understand, they're not super responsible to start with, so the risk of failure is much higher. People may surprise you though. The added debt may make them buckle down and prioritize repayment of any high interest debt. Or at least this is the path I'd be trying to steer them towards.

redbird

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 535
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2016, 11:39:31 PM »
I'd be very hesitant to buy a house that you know up front that the water is undrinkable. Even if the water is OK for bathing, I have a pet. Pets are like very young children, but permanently, in the sense that you can't tell it not to drink the water you're bathing it with. They just don't understand. You'd have to make sure to bathe it with clean drinking water just to be safe. The idea of paying for a water service or having to buy water all the time just seems annoying to me.

Fixer uppers also can cost more than you're expecting for lots of reasons. Plus they have that massive debt already...

This is definitely a train wreck.

Zamboni

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2562
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2016, 06:32:56 AM »
It does sound like a money pit and I'm skeptical about even the appearance of city water in 2-3 years. That may indeed happen . . . or it may not. City plans tend to evolve over time, and we don't know if the 2-3 years is really even in the plans now or if it is some sort of overly optimistic hope being peddled to them.

On the bright side, a 2 bedroom in-law suite sounds perfectly livable to me. Sure, it will be cramped with 3 kids and 2 adults, but many people in the world live in more cramped conditions. They need a place to go, and the fact that they have been living rent free with a relative is just one more indication that they don't completely have their act together (most adults with children in this country prefer to have their own place, of course.) So, this will give them a place to go. They will be fine living there as long as they can keep the basic bills paid. I know that I could personally swing what they are suggesting, but I don't have their existing debt . . . and I have more income and older children. But the idea, generally, is not terrible.

Does a family with 3 small children need a giant rehab project? Most do not.

Will they get it done in a year? Most likely not.

Since there is no bankroll to do it now, my estimate is that it will take them at least 2-3 years to get the main house through the renovations and whatever inspections are needed. 5 years would not surprise me at all. But, as long as they can stay out of foreclosure, that's probably okay.

My advice is just to smile and nod at this point, then say "oh, that's terrible!" whenever they complain about some expense, exhaustion from the work, or delay. If you want to keep us entertained, then periodically update this post.

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3643
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2016, 11:46:51 AM »
I personally hate the term, "Dream home," as too many people buy it with the intention of upgrading, but perhaps I'm being a bit pedantic.

Buying a home should be about buying one that's below your means because you don't know what might crop up. This is why I hate when people refer to renting as "throwing away money," because things are cheap when you own a home, and unlike renting, you are directly responsible for all of it. Also you should be aware of your capabilities, for instance I have limited handyman knowledge and so I looked for a turn-key house, even though I know that it would cost more than a similar house that required some work. I found it and likely paid about $10k more as a result. To-date there hasn't been any real work needed on my house (fingers crossed). I would like to tear out the carpet on the main floor and put in laminate as well as tear out a kitchen wall and put in an island, but these are largely cosmetic changes that I'm happy to wait. I've had a contractor come in and estimate about $6500 for everything (including materials) if I'm able to dispose everything, which I can do at my office. He's also willing to give a break if I want it done in December when work is slow, and I think that's agreeable. I haven't made a decision yet on whether or not I want to do it.

MrsDinero

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 935
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2016, 12:53:43 PM »
I personally hate the term, "Dream home," as too many people buy it with the intention of upgrading, but perhaps I'm being a bit pedantic.

I agree but for a different reason.  I think calling it a "dream home" is a little shortsighted.  No one can tell what is in their future.  We can make as many plans as possible, but when it comes down it plans can change.

On that note, I do call the house Mr. D and I have our "forever home", because calling it our "well we hope to stay here as long as we can but we know things can change" home leaves me winded :)  We can see ourselves living out our retirement and elderly years in this home, however we know plans can change.  Ideally, though, I would like this house to be the last one I move/live in, but that is a very very long time away.

Drifterrider

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1119
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2016, 11:46:08 AM »
I just need a place to vent because I'm watching the beginning of a train-wreck.

Some friends of mine are in the process of buying their "dream home".  I've tried to gently talk with with about some of the realities of what is going to happen, but they are dead set on buying this home.


You can't live some else's life for them.  If you want to keep them as friends, let it go.

Piglet

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2019, 02:25:35 PM »
@MrsDinero, just curious how this turned out for your friends. Hopefully, all went well....

PDXTabs

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1342
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Portland, OR, USA
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2019, 02:51:58 PM »
Long term this could work out very well for them. Do you know how much money they actually have free per month?

In three years they could be renting the mother in law suite and drinking city water.

Linea_Norway

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6246
  • Location: Norway
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2019, 07:52:28 AM »
Just want to let you know that we lived in a house with a private well for 15 years. We have had the water tested a few times. First two times, everything was fine. Third time there were wrond bacteria in it. We started to cook the drinking water and ordered a filter. We installed the filter in the kitchen sink on the cold water and used the rest of the water in the house as it was. Showeted and bathed and brushed teeth with water with a bacteria in it. We have not gotten sick of it.

RetiredAt63

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 11870
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2019, 08:37:23 AM »
Just want to let you know that we lived in a house with a private well for 15 years. We have had the water tested a few times. First two times, everything was fine. Third time there were wrond bacteria in it. We started to cook the drinking water and ordered a filter. We installed the filter in the kitchen sink on the cold water and used the rest of the water in the house as it was. Showeted and bathed and brushed teeth with water with a bacteria in it. We have not gotten sick of it.

Total aside, but if a well is contaminated with coliforms it is not hard to fix - take the well cap off, pour a gallon/4L bottle of bleach in, run bleached (i.e. now chlorinated) water through all the house water lines.  Unless there is consistent outside contamination this should fix it.  Other bacterial contamination isn't really an issue, they are the same bacteria we are breathing in and having land on our skin.

penguintroopers

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 197
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2019, 10:40:18 AM »
Curious as well to the end result. PTF.

better late

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 355
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2019, 02:18:46 PM »
Curious as well to the end result. PTF.

Ditto. This could have gone well or badly.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1094
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2019, 07:20:10 PM »
What's the problem with lead paint, exactly? Even if you went around licking walls, it's not going to hurt you. If you're doing light sanding to repaint, just wear a mask??? Ffs.

ysette9

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6039
  • Location: Bay Area, CA
    • Insert Snappy Title Here (Journal)
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2019, 08:25:47 PM »
Lead is much more dangerous for kids with developing brains and bodies than it is adults. Paint on walls becomes chipped all the time, especially with active little kids bouncing off the walls (perhaps literally). Little bits of paint chips and dust can easily get on the floor where babies crawl, where toys get dropped and then put in mouths, etc. My healthcare provider asks if kids live in a home built pre-some date and do special blood tests to check for lead if the house is older than when lead paint was banned.

BFive55

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2019, 06:20:32 PM »
I personally hate the term, "Dream home," as too many people buy it with the intention of upgrading, but perhaps I'm being a bit pedantic.

Buying a home should be about buying one that's below your means because you don't know what might crop up. This is why I hate when people refer to renting as "throwing away money," because things are cheap when you own a home, and unlike renting, you are directly responsible for all of it. Also you should be aware of your capabilities, for instance I have limited handyman knowledge and so I looked for a turn-key house, even though I know that it would cost more than a similar house that required some work. I found it and likely paid about $10k more as a result. To-date there hasn't been any real work needed on my house (fingers crossed). I would like to tear out the carpet on the main floor and put in laminate as well as tear out a kitchen wall and put in an island, but these are largely cosmetic changes that I'm happy to wait. I've had a contractor come in and estimate about $6500 for everything (including materials) if I'm able to dispose everything, which I can do at my office. He's also willing to give a break if I want it done in December when work is slow, and I think that's agreeable. I haven't made a decision yet on whether or not I want to do it.

I love watching HGTV but I also hate it. Specifically to your point about living below means... I think it was Love it or List It, but I can't remember exactly, where a family of 3 was searching for a new home. The new home that David (the real estate guy on the show) showed them was like 4,000 square feet and like 4 or 5 bedrooms. It was simply massive. The playroom is larger than my apartment.

I renovated my town home before selling it when I moved for work. I did a lot of work on it. Ironically (??) I had put down $50,000 and spent around $15,000 or so on renovations (I did them all so no labor costs). If I had just invested my down payment I would have made all the money back that I got from selling my town home. Even "throwing money away" into an apartment, I would have been able to invest the $50,000 four years ago and not all the money I spent on renovations but I would have had a lot more time to do stuff and work extra overtime assignments so it'd have evened out.

Though I learned a lot. It's made me much wiser when I buy my next place.

The idea of a "dream" home is a term I look to with dread. Because dreams are temporary. It always seems that there is an inevitable "keeping up with the Jones'" that will happen and then the dreaded "BuT tHe ScHoOl DiStRict" will rear it's ugly head and end up moving.

BFive55

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2019, 06:21:12 PM »
I personally hate the term, "Dream home," as too many people buy it with the intention of upgrading, but perhaps I'm being a bit pedantic.

Buying a home should be about buying one that's below your means because you don't know what might crop up. This is why I hate when people refer to renting as "throwing away money," because things are cheap when you own a home, and unlike renting, you are directly responsible for all of it. Also you should be aware of your capabilities, for instance I have limited handyman knowledge and so I looked for a turn-key house, even though I know that it would cost more than a similar house that required some work. I found it and likely paid about $10k more as a result. To-date there hasn't been any real work needed on my house (fingers crossed). I would like to tear out the carpet on the main floor and put in laminate as well as tear out a kitchen wall and put in an island, but these are largely cosmetic changes that I'm happy to wait. I've had a contractor come in and estimate about $6500 for everything (including materials) if I'm able to dispose everything, which I can do at my office. He's also willing to give a break if I want it done in December when work is slow, and I think that's agreeable. I haven't made a decision yet on whether or not I want to do it.

I love watching HGTV but I also hate it. Specifically to your point about living below means... I think it was Love it or List It, but I can't remember exactly, where a family of 3 was searching for a new home. The new home that David (the real estate guy on the show) showed them was like 4,000 square feet and like 4 or 5 bedrooms. It was simply massive. The playroom is larger than my apartment.

I renovated my town home before selling it when I moved for work. I did a lot of work on it. Ironically (??) I had put down $50,000 and spent around $15,000 or so on renovations (I did them all so no labor costs) and if I had just invested my down payment I would have made all the money back that I got from selling my town home. Even "throwing money away" into an apartment, I would have been able to invest the $50,000 four years ago and not all the money I spent on renovations but I would have had a lot more time to do stuff and work extra overtime assignments so it'd have evened out.

Though I learned a lot. It's made me much wiser when I buy my next place.

The idea of a "dream" home is a term I look to with dread. Because dreams are temporary. It always seems that there is an inevitable "keeping up with the Jones'" that will happen and then the dreaded "BuT tHe ScHoOl DiStRict" will rear it's ugly head and end up moving.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1094
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2019, 09:53:45 PM »
Lead is much more dangerous for kids with developing brains and bodies than it is adults. Paint on walls becomes chipped all the time, especially with active little kids bouncing off the walls (perhaps literally). Little bits of paint chips and dust can easily get on the floor where babies crawl, where toys get dropped and then put in mouths, etc. My healthcare provider asks if kids live in a home built pre-some date and do special blood tests to check for lead if the house is older than when lead paint was banned.

Everyone in the last few generations grew up with lead paint. The kids who became ill were chewing on lead painted toys and cots. I find it extremely unlikely that lead paint in a house would impact anyone of any age.

ysette9

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6039
  • Location: Bay Area, CA
    • Insert Snappy Title Here (Journal)
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2019, 10:07:17 PM »
The Mayo Clinic seems to think that lead paint presents a danger to children.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/lead-poisoning/symptoms-causes/syc-20354717


kenner

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 64
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2019, 10:12:42 PM »
Lead is much more dangerous for kids with developing brains and bodies than it is adults. Paint on walls becomes chipped all the time, especially with active little kids bouncing off the walls (perhaps literally). Little bits of paint chips and dust can easily get on the floor where babies crawl, where toys get dropped and then put in mouths, etc. My healthcare provider asks if kids live in a home built pre-some date and do special blood tests to check for lead if the house is older than when lead paint was banned.

Everyone in the last few generations grew up with lead paint. The kids who became ill were chewing on lead painted toys and cots. I find it extremely unlikely that lead paint in a house would impact anyone of any age.


Uh...no.  Adults might be okay, young children very much not when paint starts chipping or dust starts flaking.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/lead-poisoning/symptoms-causes/syc-20354717
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/lead-poisoning-and-health
https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxfaqs/tf.asp?id=93&tid=22

There's a reason lead abatement is a thing (and that most developed nations banned lead in paint long before the US got around to it).

RetiredAt63

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 11870
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2019, 02:50:27 PM »
Lead is much more dangerous for kids with developing brains and bodies than it is adults. Paint on walls becomes chipped all the time, especially with active little kids bouncing off the walls (perhaps literally). Little bits of paint chips and dust can easily get on the floor where babies crawl, where toys get dropped and then put in mouths, etc. My healthcare provider asks if kids live in a home built pre-some date and do special blood tests to check for lead if the house is older than when lead paint was banned.

Everyone in the last few generations grew up with lead paint. The kids who became ill were chewing on lead painted toys and cots. I find it extremely unlikely that lead paint in a house would impact anyone of any age.


Uh...no.  Adults might be okay, young children very much not when paint starts chipping or dust starts flaking.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/lead-poisoning/symptoms-causes/syc-20354717
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/lead-poisoning-and-health
https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxfaqs/tf.asp?id=93&tid=22

There's a reason lead abatement is a thing (and that most developed nations banned lead in paint long before the US got around to it).

Same  reason we got lead out of gasoline.

I read a research study many years about subtle brain effects from low-level lead poisoning, done when there was still lead in gasoline.  The researchers had a terrible time finding truly lead-free food for their control animals, because everything had minor levels of lead.  And yes, there were subtle learning deficits in the animals that were on a diet that all of us alive at that time were also ingesting.  Which means we are all slightly stupider than we would have been growing up in a lead-free environment.  What a comforting thought/not.

SpeedReader

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 164
  • Age: 54
  • Location: Lynnwood, WA
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2019, 10:28:14 PM »

I read a research study many years about subtle brain effects from low-level lead poisoning, done when there was still lead in gasoline.  The researchers had a terrible time finding truly lead-free food for their control animals, because everything had minor levels of lead.  And yes, there were subtle learning deficits in the animals that were on a diet that all of us alive at that time were also ingesting.  Which means we are all slightly stupider than we would have been growing up in a lead-free environment.  What a comforting thought/not.
[/quote]

Not comforting, but it sure explains a lot.

Just Joe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3438
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2019, 01:07:56 PM »
So that would have been the boomers on that lead diet - right??? Might explain the news out of D.C. in the past decade or so... ;)
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 11:28:03 AM by Just Joe »

rothwem

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 618
  • Location: WNC
Re: Venting about friends who is about to make a bad financial decision
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2019, 06:44:59 AM »
It might work out for them if they are smart about it. 

Lead based paint isn't necessarily a real problem.  A huge % of the US housing market may have lead paint in it.  Just keep it in good repair (i.e., not peeling) and life is good.

They could replace (by themselves) most of the sheet rock in the house and repaint it for a whole lot less than $30,000 if replacement was actually needed.

Drinking water wouldn't be that expensive if they are smart about it.   As long as it's safe for washing dishes and clothes, the expense wouldn't be that much.

If they fixed it up nicely, a small bit at a time, they might be able to sell it for a really good profit after the city water comes in.   At that point they would be considered geniuses.   If their careers are such that their income can be expected to go up over the next few years, and they can wait until that for the bigger expenses, ditto.

Of course, if they can't afford the mortgage payment at all, much less small incremental repairs, they would be really foolish to do this. 

 

I agree with the bolded part here.  This could turn out okay.  And I'm glad that they're at least following a budget.  The low mortgage will keep their fixed cost low, and if they need to pause the renovations at some point due to a bad month, its not a big deal since it sounds like they've got a perfectly livable in-law suite.